1
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: Folks, I might be having a change of heart. I

2
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,640
Speaker 1: don't know. There's a lot to get to here. Hi. Everyone,

3
00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,080
Speaker 1: Luke Thomas, one half of Morning Combat, wanted to talk

4
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,599
Speaker 1: to you today about something really interesting that I just

5
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 1: had to make a comment about. Now, this is Thursday,

6
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 1: as I record this video June ninth, twenty twenty two.

7
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: I'm talking about yesterday, Wednesday, June eighth, twenty twenty two,

8
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: and on that day, former UFC middleweight and Strikeforce fighter

9
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,559
Speaker 1: Tim Kennedy was on the MMA Hour with Arieljwania. Now,

10
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,480
Speaker 1: they got to a whole lot of stuff. Strongly encourage

11
00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: you to either watch or listen to the interview. But

12
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 1: the part that I wanted to focus in on for

13
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 1: today's video was their discussion about a moment in time

14
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,360
Speaker 1: where Tim Kennedy and Kane Velasquez and George Saint Pierre

15
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,720
Speaker 1: and TJ. Dillashaw and Donald Serrooniu and potentially some other

16
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 1: ones as well. Those were the big names involved in

17
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,960
Speaker 1: the project. They were involved in what was called the

18
00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: Double M Triple AO, at least that's what I called it.

19
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 1: But the Mixed Martial Arts Athletes Association not a very

20
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 1: great name for a union or an association, but in

21
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 1: either case, that's what it was called. And it had

22
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,200
Speaker 1: some big guns certainly in its early heyday. But the

23
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 1: reason why I wanted to point it out to about

24
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 1: what he said was it's extremely important. Namely, Ariel asked

25
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,560
Speaker 1: him basically, why did the double M Triple A fail?

26
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 1: What was the real source of it? And there was

27
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,760
Speaker 1: a few things complicating the effort. Over time, there was

28
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,480
Speaker 1: not enough that had happened, and I think some of

29
00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: the original figures like TJ. Delashaw, had become disillusioned. Also,

30
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,240
Speaker 1: there is some evidence to suggest that between Serony and

31
00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:41,000
Speaker 1: Delashaw that after their public display of support for the

32
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: Double M Triple A, that the UFC had actually increased

33
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,840
Speaker 1: their purses between fights as a way to probably compensate

34
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,200
Speaker 1: them or to perhaps persuade them to not pursue these

35
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,480
Speaker 1: efforts anymore, or perhaps they were feeling generous. But the

36
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: point being is that's actually not the reason why it

37
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: ultimately collapsed. In fact, what Tim Kennedy said is and

38
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,040
Speaker 1: you can go and read his quotes, and again you

39
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: can see the interview for yourself, but here's the gist.

40
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 1: The gist was they thought they had to make a

41
00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 1: big splash with some big names. Mission accomplished, and then

42
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: they were going to go to gym's piece by piece

43
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:12,400
Speaker 1: to get these guys to sign up, because you don't

44
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,480
Speaker 1: need the full roster to do it. You actually need

45
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,880
Speaker 1: a pretty small proportion to do it. But that proved

46
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 1: extremely challenging. In fact, what he said, and the part

47
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,399
Speaker 1: to me that stands out as the most interesting, was that,

48
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,520
Speaker 1: and this is why it's basically, to me, almost worst

49
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 1: case scenario. What he says is they did not go

50
00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: to gyms and encounter what I would call ideological resistance.

51
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,600
Speaker 1: In other words, they didn't go to a gym and say, hey,

52
00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 1: we would like to talk to you about the benefits

53
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,200
Speaker 1: of unionization or forming an association, which is a little

54
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: bit similar but different. For the purposes of this conversation,

55
00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 1: we'll say unionization. It wasn't like they encountered a lot

56
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,680
Speaker 1: of folks who were saying, I don't see the benefit here,

57
00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,640
Speaker 1: This would not serve my interests. I don't know what

58
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: I would get out of this. Fact. What he says

59
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,360
Speaker 1: is that there was actually a strong amount of ideological support.

60
00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 1: Most of the fighters that they encountered believed that that thing,

61
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 1: should it come to fruition in some kind of theoretical sense,

62
00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 1: would be beneficial for them. They heard the pitch, and

63
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: they understood and accepted the potential value of that. But

64
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,200
Speaker 1: here's the problem, and this is why I call it

65
00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. What they encountered was not ideological resistance.

66
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: What they encountered was fear. What they encountered was an

67
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: inability for the fighters in any kind of reasonable proportion

68
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: to agree to put their names on the list of

69
00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 1: folks and you get a sufficient number of those in

70
00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,760
Speaker 1: the thirty percent range, and you can actually move forward

71
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 1: that process. What they encountered were folks saying, I don't

72
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,160
Speaker 1: trust that there won't be retribution for me putting my

73
00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: name on this list. And of course that voting process

74
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 1: is confidential. In fact, there would be no real way

75
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,920
Speaker 1: for the UFC to get access to that. The course

76
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,360
Speaker 1: that has been explained numerous times didn't matter, didn't matter

77
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: at all. What they encountered was folks who might have

78
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 1: been ideologically sympathetic, but in reality could not move with them,

79
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,719
Speaker 1: could not pull that trigg, or could not put their

80
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 1: name on that list. And here's why I call that

81
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,159
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. Because you might be inclined to believe

82
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 1: that someone believing the opposite of the value of unions

83
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 1: or associations would be the biggest impediment. But I don't agree,

84
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,400
Speaker 1: because you can persuade people to do something like that.

85
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,919
Speaker 1: You can actually persuade people over time with real lobbying efforts.

86
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,719
Speaker 1: And when I mean lobbying, I don't mean members of Congress,

87
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,919
Speaker 1: but I mean going jim to jim, fighter to fighter,

88
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,599
Speaker 1: coach to coach, having these opportunities to explain to them.

89
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,880
Speaker 1: And again, it's not somebody like me talking to fighters.

90
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,640
Speaker 1: It was other fighters talking to fighters. And it wasn't

91
00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,640
Speaker 1: just other fighters, it was very celebrated public figure inside

92
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,799
Speaker 1: of that fighting space. In those scenarios, there is actually

93
00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:06,760
Speaker 1: a lot of reason to believe why you might encounter

94
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,239
Speaker 1: some ideological resistance. There's a lot of evidence that shows,

95
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 1: and frankly, unions and associations are built on the back

96
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:18,640
Speaker 1: of this convincing people over time through a passionate outreach

97
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 1: effort to believe in those values and then ultimately to

98
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,040
Speaker 1: then put forward an effort to encourage sign ups. To me,

99
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,320
Speaker 1: it's much worse that they found people who were sympathetic

100
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: but simply far too timid to do anything about it. Because, yes,

101
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: you might think, well, if you can convince someone to

102
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,480
Speaker 1: change their opinion on something, surely you can get someone

103
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,120
Speaker 1: who's already sympathetic to sign their signed, their excuse me,

104
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: their name on the dotted line. But it's actually a

105
00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,400
Speaker 1: much more difficult thing. I mean, just think about the

106
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 1: resistance there. We're already in agreement, but the person who

107
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get to sign is so frozen in

108
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,159
Speaker 1: the moment that they can't. I'd actually argue you have

109
00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,480
Speaker 1: a better chance of convincing a crowd that, say, was

110
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,919
Speaker 1: fifty fifth deal on your proposition, convincing just enough of

111
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,640
Speaker 1: them to get over the hump, whatever that may be,

112
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 1: rather than trying to convince people who were already in

113
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 1: your camp ideologically speaking, and you can't get them to

114
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,040
Speaker 1: move a muscle, you can't get them to budge an inch.

115
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: In fact, what he said was out of a roster

116
00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,400
Speaker 1: of five hundred people, they got maybe five percent of

117
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,480
Speaker 1: them to sign up, you know, six or seven times

118
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,000
Speaker 1: the undercount of what they would need. Folks, I gotta

119
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,040
Speaker 1: tell you that tells you everything you need to know

120
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,839
Speaker 1: about what's probably going to happen in the future. Listen,

121
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't just the Double M Triple A. There were

122
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,960
Speaker 1: other associations and and or reunion efforts to move this along.

123
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,280
Speaker 1: You guys, remember Jeff Boris around the same time in

124
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,919
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen tried something called the Professional Fighters Association. They

125
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: haven't tweeted since twenty seventeen. I don't think I looked

126
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,200
Speaker 1: at their Twitter account today. And of course we all

127
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: know famously Projects Spearhead in all three cases, which by

128
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,720
Speaker 1: the way, come from different directions. Double M Triple A, yes,

129
00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: it had Born Rebney, who had something of a fraud

130
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 1: relation ship with the MMA industry and the MMA fan base.

131
00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,640
Speaker 1: But remember he's standing next to Saint Pierre, he's standing

132
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 1: next to Velasquez, he's standing next to Serroni and Dillashaw

133
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,360
Speaker 1: and then of course Tim Kennedy. He actually had some

134
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,640
Speaker 1: real support. There was someone bankrolling in along the way.

135
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: There was something to this. And again with Project Spearhead,

136
00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,440
Speaker 1: you had Leslie Smith, and you had Ali Quinta and

137
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,680
Speaker 1: some other ones as well trying to push that effort.

138
00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,840
Speaker 1: So you had in the case of Jeff Boris with

139
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 1: the Professional Fighters Association the PFA, he was part of

140
00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,240
Speaker 1: the litigation team for the Ballogi Group, which at the

141
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,480
Speaker 1: time which representing Nate Diaz. They saw these contracts and

142
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 1: they're like, this can't be real. So they then tried

143
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 1: to get a unionization effort going. Project Spearhead tried to

144
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 1: get a unionization effort going, Double n Tripala tried to

145
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 1: get a unionization effort going, and in all three cases

146
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 1: they encounter the exact same thing. Hey, guys, we like

147
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,920
Speaker 1: your message in theory. It sounds great if something like

148
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: that were to ever happen, but we don't trust the

149
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,320
Speaker 1: process by which this has taken place, by which this

150
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,760
Speaker 1: will take place, and we fear retribution. Now you can

151
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 1: say that that's Tim Kennedy's version of things. You can

152
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,280
Speaker 1: say that that fear that those fighters might have had

153
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,760
Speaker 1: may have been irrational given some of the safety and

154
00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: privacy protections that were in place, but it doesn't matter.

155
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: In the end. You have three different groups of three

156
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 1: different people, three different kinds of groups with three different

157
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,840
Speaker 1: kinds of people, and all of them faced the exact

158
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:30,000
Speaker 1: same stumbling block. The fighters might agree, but they're not

159
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 1: going to sign. There might be more to the story there,

160
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: because if it's not an ideological component that's really holding

161
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,080
Speaker 1: them back. Might there be other things, And folks have

162
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:43,880
Speaker 1: pointed out an industry where people are hyper focused on themselves,

163
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,880
Speaker 1: and you'll hear even MMA fighters say, you have to

164
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 1: be very selfish in this industry. You have to put

165
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,439
Speaker 1: your needs sometimes in front of your families to get

166
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:52,880
Speaker 1: to the professional goals that you want, or certainly you

167
00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 1: can put strain on friendships and again, familiar relationships and

168
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: many other things. Has to be intensely inward, folks, and

169
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: intensely selfish. And so if you're in an industry like that,

170
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 1: why would you necessarily want to sign up to protect

171
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,480
Speaker 1: someone else's interest, particularly if you're far ahead of them.

172
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: Why do you care what the UFC minimum is If

173
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 1: you're far advanced past that, perhap perhaps even getting pay reviewpoints.

174
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,199
Speaker 1: There's probably something to be said for that. But again,

175
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 1: when these fighters, when these groups went to these camps

176
00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 1: and talked to these fighters, that was actually not the

177
00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,840
Speaker 1: real big issue. That was not the part. So you

178
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: can say that played a role, probably did on some level,

179
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 1: but more to the point, it is the industry, or

180
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 1: at least I should say, the perceived industry control by

181
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 1: the UFC and its various powers of perceived retribution that

182
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: kept them from signing. Now, I started this video by

183
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,559
Speaker 1: saying I have had a change of heart. I actually

184
00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,199
Speaker 1: still believe in the concept of a sports athletes union.

185
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 1: We are seeing unions now having something of a resurgence

186
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,200
Speaker 1: in the United States, both in media newsrooms. You're probably

187
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 1: seeing headlines around Starbucks in Amazon. I believe in the

188
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 1: value of unions. I believe in their power. I believe

189
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 1: in how important they can be for the labor force

190
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 1: and for the larger market itself. But if that solution

191
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,720
Speaker 1: is inaccessible, despite repeated efforts from folks who have made

192
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:20,440
Speaker 1: good faith, full throated, genuine efforts, people who would have

193
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 1: the very best chances of getting their peers right fighter

194
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 1: to fighter to sign off have had not just poor results,

195
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: cataclysmically poor results. If that's the case, you might think

196
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,280
Speaker 1: to say, well, unionization's impossible. Right. It might be, but

197
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that people are going to stop trying

198
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,720
Speaker 1: to remedy what they perceive as an imbalance in the industry,

199
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 1: which brings us back to the Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform

200
00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 1: Act getting extended to MMA. I hear from all the

201
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,640
Speaker 1: folks out there that What they don't want is a

202
00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 1: situation where MMA turns into the infrastructure, I should say,

203
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 1: the architecture rather of boxing. We don't want for sanctioning bodies.

204
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 1: We don't want all these crazy titles. We don't want

205
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: this fragmented space where sometimes the big fights that need

206
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,720
Speaker 1: to get made it's hard to do because one person's

207
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,440
Speaker 1: on his own, one person's on showtime, one person's on ESPN,

208
00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 1: all separate promoters, all being tied to networks. And I

209
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,480
Speaker 1: understand those concerns. Frankly, I share them. I have long

210
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: been a proponent of the idea that I think, on balance,

211
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: it actually might be better to have a union or

212
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,160
Speaker 1: to have an association. There are criticisms of that view

213
00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: in terms of how much money could actually be raised

214
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,679
Speaker 1: that way, But you would have to imagine through a

215
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 1: collective bargaining agreement, a lot of remedies could be placed

216
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,679
Speaker 1: inside the industry that don't currently exist, a lot of

217
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,200
Speaker 1: protections could be placed. So I'm with you in many ways,

218
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,680
Speaker 1: I might would rather keep the way MMA works, just

219
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:50,240
Speaker 1: make sure the fighters make a little bit more, and

220
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 1: they have some health care protections and all the various

221
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 1: things that a CBA would account for. But if the

222
00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 1: fighters are so petrified of perceived retaliation or retribution, that

223
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 1: won't be on the table. But the Muhammad Ali Boxing

224
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 1: Reform Act, or for short, the Ali Act, you only

225
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,319
Speaker 1: need a handful of people to really do something like that,

226
00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,800
Speaker 1: and the MMAFA has been doing exactly that. You got

227
00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: John Fitch or Indicator Vnicius Kaidas, Carlos Newton, and a

228
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,560
Speaker 1: handful of others, all lot in Nick Quarry lobbying on

229
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 1: the hill trying to get this legislation advanced. They have

230
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,480
Speaker 1: bipartisan support, at least they did for the last or

231
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,960
Speaker 1: two sessions ago of Congress. You need a much smaller

232
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: group to affect much broader change. You don't need the

233
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,680
Speaker 1: vast sign ups of fighters to get there, and it

234
00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,680
Speaker 1: would have a lot of the remedies to fix the

235
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,680
Speaker 1: current situation built in to that. Now, of course that

236
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,760
Speaker 1: would create potentially potentially a series of other problems. But folks,

237
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,440
Speaker 1: I'm trying to ask here, what is the way in

238
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 1: which we can actually get fighters protection in the industry.

239
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: The lawsuit hard to know what's going to happen. There's

240
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,800
Speaker 1: certainly something could happen there, but it remains very much unclear.

241
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,080
Speaker 1: The other one would be unionization, which we have seen

242
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,040
Speaker 1: now a series of very good, at least on paper

243
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:15,680
Speaker 1: efforts utterly collapse in short order. And then there's the

244
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: ALI Act. If you don't want any fighter watching this,

245
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,360
Speaker 1: doesn't want the ALI Act to ultimately change the industry,

246
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 1: which by itself is debatable. There could be more good

247
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 1: things about than folks recognize, but of course there's gonna

248
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,800
Speaker 1: be any There's gonna be a series of trade offs

249
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 1: in either direction. But if you don't want that, but

250
00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,599
Speaker 1: yet they also won't sign up for a union. I

251
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. I don't know what

252
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 1: to tell you. I really don't. There is nothing to

253
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,120
Speaker 1: tell you. It will either be one of those three.

254
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,000
Speaker 1: The lawsuit could potentially do something, but again very much speculative,

255
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,800
Speaker 1: very much in the not near term. Unionization could potentially

256
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,959
Speaker 1: be done almost in a matter of months if there

257
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,960
Speaker 1: was enough institutional support for it among the fighters, but

258
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,840
Speaker 1: clearly that isn't on the table, and so that leaves

259
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 1: us with the ALI Act. It leaves us with what

260
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 1: would be a profound change to the industry, but frankly,

261
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: the only truly accessible potential remedy that exists. If you

262
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 1: actually say that you're in favor a fighters getting more money,

263
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 1: will then say out loud what that mechanism is. Is

264
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 1: it the lawsuit? Fine, but that isn't going to be

265
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: anything that serves anyone in the near term. Is it unionization? Fine?

266
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 1: I think it's a great idea, but that is definitely

267
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:38,920
Speaker 1: not something that is going to happen in the near term.

268
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 1: If ever, given what Tim Kennedy was saying, and then

269
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: that just leaves you with this one, which, by the way,

270
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 1: certainly they've not gotten the ALI Act to be voted

271
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 1: on on both chambers of Congress then sent to the

272
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 1: president's desk. If it was, it's hard to know how

273
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,960
Speaker 1: current President Biden would sign it, or if not, with

274
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 1: the previous president, it was unclear exactly how that would

275
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: go even if it made it to his desk. Like,

276
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,920
Speaker 1: none of these things are guarantees. But if you're asking

277
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 1: what is the likeliest mechanism in the short to medium

278
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 1: potentially the long run as well, But certainly what's the

279
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: one that's most accessible even with all of its hurdles

280
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,600
Speaker 1: getting through Congress, which is no easy task, it would

281
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: be the ALI Act. There's no traction for a union,

282
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,560
Speaker 1: and the lawsuit is deeply speculative. If at all remedy it,

283
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: we'll have to see. But the ALI Act would actually

284
00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,200
Speaker 1: fix a lot. I know what you're saying, to create

285
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,880
Speaker 1: more problems. Fine, let's have that debate. But you can't

286
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: go out there and say I want fighters to make

287
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: more money if you are also unwilling to admit that

288
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 1: the thing that you potentially and I know I'm talking

289
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,600
Speaker 1: to a lot of MMA fans here who are seeing this.

290
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,760
Speaker 1: If you're against turning MMA into boxing, well fine, but

291
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: what is your solution? There is none, it doesn't exist.

292
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 1: That's so I've had a change of heart. I don't

293
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,320
Speaker 1: know that you can convince broad swaths of the fighter

294
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 1: community to sign up for something that even they in

295
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,120
Speaker 1: large part recognizes in their interest. I think if you're

296
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 1: gonna do it, you have to get a small group

297
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,840
Speaker 1: of folks who can focus in on a legislative solution

298
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: and work towards that, because short of that, what is

299
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 1: gonna make fighter pay go up? Nothing. The UFC is

300
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 1: a business that's gonna run their business above board, and

301
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna run it in their interests. So unless your

302
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: whole concept of getting fighter paid increase is simply generosity, mercy,

303
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 1: their magnanimity. Then you don't have a plan. There is

304
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: no plan. You can't actually say you're in favor of

305
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 1: increasing fighter pay if your answer is maybe bitcoin will

306
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,400
Speaker 1: go up when they get these crypto awards that the

307
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: fans vote on after fights. Yeah, maybe that will affect

308
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: a very small amount in a positive direction. What's that

309
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: got to do with the vast majority of fighters who

310
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,520
Speaker 1: will never sniff any of those benefits. What is something

311
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 1: that you could do in the industry that would affect

312
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,480
Speaker 1: them at scale that would get them from the top

313
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 1: to the bottom, somebody would get a benefit all the

314
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: way through, or at a bare minimum even with the

315
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,400
Speaker 1: ALI Act, you can agree it would potentially benefit much

316
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,119
Speaker 1: more the folks at the top than at the bottom.

317
00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:24,240
Speaker 1: But it would be some kind of remedy even those

318
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: who may not be able to excess all of it,

319
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,120
Speaker 1: the ones who would would have significantly more protections than

320
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 1: relative to the status quo. So I'm gonna tell you, folks,

321
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say unions can't work in MMA, but

322
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, in my lifetime and in the course

323
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: of my time covering the sport. The evidence is in,

324
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 1: at least for right now, They're not gonna work because

325
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 1: the fighters either don't want to put their names on

326
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,439
Speaker 1: the list for fear of retribution, and of course some

327
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: of them might also just not believe in the value.

328
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 1: But really that's not what's holding it up. What's holding

329
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,960
Speaker 1: it up is a perceived control of the industry that

330
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 1: fighters simply believe would be too costly for them to challenge.

331
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,960
Speaker 1: And so without the power of the law to compel

332
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,400
Speaker 1: the UFC, what is your answer for improving fighter pay?

333
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,000
Speaker 1: Would love to hear it. Would love to hear it.

334
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,080
Speaker 1: You can be against MMA turning into boxing, but you

335
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,119
Speaker 1: can't be against that and then also claim that you

336
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: support fighter pay. You can't. It doesn't work. That is

337
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 1: the best possibility. That is the best possible choice given

338
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 1: the available options, and frankly, over time it might prove

339
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: to be the only one. If you're seeing this right now,

340
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 1: just realize unionization in mixed martial arts is a pipe dream,

341
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:57,919
Speaker 1: and so we have to move on to other things

342
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 1: to get fighters paid, including the perhaps controversial idea that

343
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: the best way to do that given the reality of things,

344
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 1: is just turning EMMA into boxing,