1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with 2 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Pre recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: it is our holiday week here at wok F Daily, 4 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: and as we wind down our seven year run on 5 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: this podcast, I want to revisit some of the most 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: thoughtful conversations that we've had on the incoming regime, and 7 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: I do I think that it's important sometimes to go 8 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: backwards in order to see where we are going to 9 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: be moving forwards. And so in this episode, I sat 10 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: down with clinical psychologist doctor Susan Lachman to help us 11 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: understand Trump cult, help understand the mindset of Maga, which 12 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: you know, at the time of this recording way back 13 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: in September of twenty twenty three, I thought that it 14 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: was a fraction of the population. I honestly, I genuinely 15 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: thought that, you know, it was about thirty percent of 16 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: the population were caught up in the Maga cult. Color 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: me wrong, because what the election on November fifth showed 18 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: us is that no, actually, it's nearly fifty percent of 19 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: the population that see nothing wrong with a man that 20 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: has been accused of rape of sexual harassment, sees nothing 21 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: wrong with any of the words that have come out 22 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's own mouth about being able to grab 23 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: women by the genitals, being able to kill somebody in 24 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: the middle of Fifth Avenue, calling Mexican's rapists and murders. 25 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: None of those things mattered except for the price of 26 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: eggs that he now says. Guess what, he can't actually 27 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: bring down grocery prices. You know, it's too hard. And 28 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: as we sit, by the time that you listen to this, 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: the government could have maybe shut down, not even because 30 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump, but because of the real president elect, 31 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: Elon Musk. So we are in it, folks, and in 32 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: order to really understand how in it we are, we 33 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: do need to get a sense of what's going on 34 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: inside of these people's minds. And so that conversation with 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: Suzanne Lachman is coming up next, folks. I am very 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: happy to welcome to OKAF Daily for the very first time, 37 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Suzanne Lachman a celebrated clinical psychologist and an unparalleled 38 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: voice in the realm of self esteem, relationships and breakups, 39 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: and as one of the three most read writers at 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: Psychology Today, and also has been featured in the critically 41 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: acclaimed documentary unfit the psychology of Donald Trump. Doctor Lockman, 42 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: you know, there's so much, there is so much that 43 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: I want to dig into with you, because I think 44 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: that the moment, the years that we've been living inside 45 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: of for the last seven years, since since Donald Trump 46 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: came down that escalator, since our political norms were turned 47 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: on their head, and what many of us believed to 48 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: be true about America, about democracy have been the challenged 49 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: is not even the world have been pushed to their 50 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: breaking point, and for many of us, watching this country 51 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: be degraded and contorted into a shell of itself is traumatizing, right, 52 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: And I just think about you know, let's harken back 53 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: to the images on January twenty one of watching our 54 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: Capitol building that did not even manage to get to 55 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: be put under siege in the Civil War, watch plumes 56 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: of smoke and people climb over buildings, and just the 57 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: visual of what we saw is trauma. So I just 58 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: want you to, you know, give us your thoughts on 59 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: where you see this moment as as psychologists looking at 60 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: what we've been facing and dealing with as a society 61 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: for almost a decade at this point. 62 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: Yes, lots of good points in there, lots of good questions, 63 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: so many tentacles. So I think given that it is 64 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: a given that trauma has infiltrated the lives of really 65 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: any sane per who pays attention to the political landscape 66 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: who notices the uh horrendous directions that our country has taken, 67 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: the division, and the hatred. So there are a number 68 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 2: One of the ways I think that it is helpful 69 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: to address trauma is to try to understand the people 70 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: who are causing it or the people who have gotten 71 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: swept up in it. So I've spent a good amount 72 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 2: of time trying to make sense of what I think 73 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 2: are a bunch of types of people that remain to 74 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 2: this day Trump supporters, despite all the evidence to the contrary, 75 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 2: want there. So I think there's some character traits, and 76 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: I don't think anyone would disagree. That's pretty obvious, but 77 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: but they so one of them. The first one is 78 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: in many you can tell that there is a profound 79 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: difficulty admitting that they're wrong apologizing There is uh. There 80 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,679 Speaker 2: are a lot of people out there who see admitting 81 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: they're wrong or apologizing as a form of weakness right 82 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: and of reflecting not just the event but their entire character. 83 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: So to admit they're wrong, to say they're sorry, means 84 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 2: that they're weak. 85 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: So I'm we're just just you know, as I'm thinking 86 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: about that, right, because obviously the first person that comes 87 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: to mind is Donald Trump, right, his inability to be 88 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: able to acknowledge wrongdoing at all, which, frankly, as a 89 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: elected official, you want the characteristic to be able to 90 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: own up to your mistakes, right when you think about 91 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: what the president signified for it prior to Donald Trump 92 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: was in many ways a moral leader as well, right, 93 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: not just a not ideally not just a political leader, 94 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: but a moral leader, somebody that can provide example, right 95 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: of compromise, of diplomacy, of all of these things. And 96 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: so when you see these characteristics, is it that because 97 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: they have been modeled doctor Lackman for so many years 98 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: in such a bad way that people then have begun 99 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,559 Speaker 1: to mimic or was this Laten's it always there? 100 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: There are when oftentimes when traumatized, it's because aspects of 101 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: earlier unresolved trauma is brought up again. And there are 102 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: many people through time, if you think back about it, 103 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 2: who should have apologized, who should have acknowledged they were wrong, 104 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 2: about something and just didn't and remained righteous and to 105 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: the end whatever that was. So I really think it's 106 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: an embedded characteristic in a lot of people. Does it. 107 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 2: Is it nature and nurture? Probably that would probably take 108 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: away too much time for us to parse out right, 109 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: But you kind of you're helping me springboard into another area, 110 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: which is Donald Trump appeals to people who have no 111 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:14,559 Speaker 2: impulse control or who are barely able to maintain their impulses. 112 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 2: Now he is idealized, idolized, deified, et cetera, because he's 113 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: been walking around exercising his impulses everywhere and not getting 114 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: There's been no ramifications for his actions. Nothing has caught 115 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: up to him. Whereas the common everyday person, they have 116 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: to if they did any of the things grab somebody 117 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: by the pussy, or any of the things that we 118 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: know Trump has done, they get in trouble for it. Right, So, 119 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: here's this guy who's able to do all of these 120 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: things that they're not able to to do, that they're 121 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: barely containing themselves from doing. So they get to live 122 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: vicariously through him in a way, and it makes him 123 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 2: rise above. There's no consequences, or there have been no consequences, 124 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 2: and he's continuing to find ways to make it appear 125 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 2: to those people who are very willing to believe because 126 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: they don't want to be wrong or they don't know 127 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 2: how to be wrong. I mean, there's so many people 128 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: in Congress that applies to you know, Matt Gates comes 129 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 2: willing to as somebody who, in your wildest dreams, would 130 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: never admit he was wrong, even Kevin McCarthy. They'll just 131 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 2: talk over themselves instead. Yeah, and it's maddening. So there's 132 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 2: these these two sub groups that are intertwined as well, 133 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: but we can also sort of see them differently. Then 134 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: there are people who have a much higher threshold for 135 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: abusive talk, for being insulted, for dishing out insult, for 136 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:25,839 Speaker 2: being bullies, for calling somebody crooked whatever, or name call, 137 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: the kind of name calling, that kind of childish. It 138 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,200 Speaker 2: comes along with impulsivity. Way that we've seen him conduct 139 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 2: himself to them, that's sort of like, oh, that's familiar 140 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: to me. There's something comforting about that he's normalizing what 141 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: I didn't always I thought was bad or people told 142 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: me was bad. But look at this, I can get 143 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 2: on board with this. 144 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: This is how I talk the way that I have 145 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: talked about it on this show and others is almost 146 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: this perpetual adolescence where Donald Trump, right and his followers 147 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: have never had to grow up. Right. It is they've 148 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: never had to grow up because they've never had to tap. 149 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: Because part of adulthood is taking responsibility, right, and when 150 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: you have never been forced to take responsibility for any 151 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: of your actions, or or you're not able, so tell 152 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: me the difference. Tell me the difference of not being 153 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: able to take responsibility for your actions and choosing not 154 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: to take responsibility for your actions. 155 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: Good question. People who are choosing not to take responsibility 156 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: of their actions are aware that there are sinking shift. 157 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 2: I mean if we if we make it specific to Trump, 158 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: but at this point they don't think that there's any 159 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 2: other recourse. They may. I think Kevin McCarthy is a 160 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: good example of this, because I think that he knows 161 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: that he's this is a clusterfuck that he's gotten himself into. 162 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 2: But will he ever admit it? No, So do I 163 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: think there are I think there are people out there 164 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: who follow Trump who are aware that in order to 165 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: continue to follow him, they have to shirk their responsibilities. 166 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: They have to decide that they're not going to be 167 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 2: accountable to anyone. They're going to put themselves first. And 168 00:13:52,200 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: there are others who intellectually may not or definitely don't 169 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: have the capacity to even understand that. They haven't grown up, 170 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: whether it be. We see a lot of people like 171 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: that that still go to the rallies. There they have 172 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: no clue what's going on in the world, they have 173 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: no answers to questions, yet there they follow Trump. It's 174 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 2: an and you know, probably I would imagine a lot 175 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: of them have been in trouble with the law at 176 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: some point, or barely escaped being in trouble with the law, 177 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: or perpetually on the edge. So I don't know if 178 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: I'm answering your question, but I do think there are 179 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 2: people out there that kind of consciously know that, no 180 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: matter who's following him, you have to be shirking your responsibilities. 181 00:14:55,280 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: You cannot be a conscious person with UH, with a 182 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: moral and ethical middle UH or time out it's a 183 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 2: better word for that, like internal compass. Yeah, with UH, 184 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 2: a moral compass, who wouldn't recognize that there's something seriously 185 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 2: wrong here? 186 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: So then what is that? What does that say? Though? Then, 187 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: because we're looking right when we're when we're thinking about 188 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: this because I've I I've interviewed experts on cults right 189 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: as as also a way to understand, uh, this moment 190 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: that we're in, this this this this rapture that we 191 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: that we find ourselves in with Donald Trump, where these 192 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: people are so enamored that they will give up their 193 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: own sense of right and wrong law quote unquote and 194 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: order a moral compass right values in order to follow 195 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: this character. And I it's but it's it's thirty percent 196 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: of the population, doctor Lackman. So I'm like, is there 197 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: are we all just banging our heads against the wall 198 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: then trying to have this thirty percent try and wake 199 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: up to reality? What? Yes, yeah, go ahead? 200 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 2: We there. I mean I often think about the Titanic 201 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: when it comes to Trump. And there were people who jumped, 202 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: and I'd say anyone who maybe voted for him first 203 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: term but has turned against him. And there are certainly 204 00:16:54,640 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: many Republican groups that are anti Trump. They jumped, and 205 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 2: others who are just gonna go down with the ship. 206 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 2: They know it's heading for the iceberg, but they're just 207 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 2: gonna that's that's what they'll do. They don't really know 208 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 2: any other way, and because to hint to them, to 209 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: many of them, he's he's magical, and he's managed to 210 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 2: get out of circumstances so often himself. I mean, think 211 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 2: about how many people went into the Capitol with the 212 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 2: promise that they would be pardoned right that, and especially 213 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: if if he is still the president and or becomes 214 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 2: the president or somehow is both. There's also many, many 215 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: mentally ill people in that contingent, in that thirty percent. 216 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 2: Not to say that there there aren't mentally ill people 217 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 2: in the other seventy, but there's less when with with 218 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,719 Speaker 2: with COVID, it certainly heightened and kind of pressurized a 219 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 2: lot of mental illness that may have been more latent exactly, 220 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 2: and venom and hatred and all these other emotions. And 221 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 2: since a good portion of those groups that we're describing 222 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 2: don't have impulse control, I mean, even if we think 223 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 2: about how many Republicans in particular are are found to 224 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 2: be pedophiles are it's it's it's insane, the lack of 225 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 2: impulse control, and it's it's it's really that that kind 226 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: of in many ways separates them from the rest of us. Uh, 227 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: even if they know, they're not controlling their impulses. Again, 228 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 2: he's giving them an excuse. 229 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: Right, He's giving he's giving them carte blanche. 230 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 2: You know, he's normalizing it, right, uh right? Yeah, So 231 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 2: that that's those are big issues among Trump's supporters. And 232 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: and this other one that I'm describing to just a 233 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 2: threshold for abuse, the way he speaks to other people, 234 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 2: the way that uh he speaks down to women, objectifies them. 235 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 2: There's a Trump there's a lot of people out there 236 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 2: like that, and unfortunately a lot of women who are 237 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 2: used to being treated that way. 238 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: I mean, there were there were women that wore t 239 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: shirts to his rally that said you can grab me anytime, 240 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: like it, and and and watching that and saying what Right, 241 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: when you see the fan art of Donald Trump, their 242 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: image of him is that of of you know, eighties 243 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. Right. They draw him and they paint him 244 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: as this muscular feure and I'm just like, what are 245 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: you actually looking at? Because it's so distorted from reality. 246 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: And I you know, I understand, I guess that it 247 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: is important to understand the psychology of the people that 248 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: follow Trump, Yes, but I also find myself and with 249 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: a couple of minutes that we have left. I want 250 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: you to be able to weigh in on the trauma 251 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: that is being inflicted on the rest of us and 252 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: how we are to manage and move and move through that, 253 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: because again, I don't think that we have paused long 254 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: enough to reflect the damage that has been done emotionally, spiritually, 255 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: physically over the last seven years. 256 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 2: The same can be said for the Holocaust, the same 257 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: can be said for slavery. When you're in something, you're 258 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 2: just in it. There's really no way or no time 259 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 2: to no ability to reflect while you're in it. What 260 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: we're looking for is a way out of it. And 261 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: I mean, at the if it's thirty percent, so be it. 262 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 2: It's not fifty. 263 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: You said that it's really difficult for people to reflect 264 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: on what they're currently in, right, and yet I think 265 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: that in order to manage our way through this, we 266 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: have to both be actively looking for the exit while 267 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: trying to, you know, deal with the trauma and the 268 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: wounds so that we can have the strength to make 269 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: it to the exit. 270 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know? So? 271 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, so, how how are we how how do 272 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 1: we manage to do both? 273 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 2: And podcasts? Social media? Uh? For as much as of 274 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 2: the craziness that's out there. Uh, it's pretty easy. And 275 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: if you some of the news stations and other places 276 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 2: as well, there's a lot of validation for the fact 277 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: that this is a crazy time and everything about this 278 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 2: Trump era is wrong. Uh and and really all you 279 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 2: I know that that's significantly harder in Red States. I 280 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: know what I was going to say. I was going 281 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: to say that just like little kids when they get 282 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 2: really crazy and destructive, it's like it's like they're crying 283 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 2: out for someone to contain them. That's what is happening 284 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: right now. That's what the Republicans are doing with the 285 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: book banning and the not not chastising people who are 286 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 2: neo Nazi and racially motivated and all of that. There, 287 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 2: they are literally crying out, whether they know it or not, 288 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: they are crying out because they cannot handle the control 289 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 2: that they have. Wow, that's why it's so crazy out there, 290 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: and we as sane adults, are going there's nothing that's 291 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: going to stop us from getting to the polls. And thankfully, 292 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 2: I think because of the extent to that, the lengths 293 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: the Republicans have gone to with with taking away women's 294 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 2: rights and messing with civil rights and education, et cetera. 295 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 2: It's going to get a lot of other people out 296 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 2: there too who might not have otherwise been involved, because 297 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 2: this touches losing Roe v. Wade, as evidenced by some 298 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 2: of the other some of the elections that we've seen 299 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: that are if there any indication of what's to come, 300 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: even in the most conservative states, it's they're they're a 301 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: cruising for us to take over, and we will, we will, 302 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: that's our job. 303 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: Well let's let's hope that is the case, because I 304 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: will say, you know that the word unprecedented is so overused, 305 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: and the word consequential is so overused. But the fact 306 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: is that we have been an are at our break 307 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: at our breaking point, and I think that the next 308 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: you know, twelve months, you know, or so are really 309 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: going to be a pressure cooker whether America survives. And 310 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't even you know, And I guess the last 311 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: question for you, I'll say, I'll ask is this is, 312 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: even if democracy comes out the other side of this, 313 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: does America, how we've understood it, come out the other 314 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: side of this or are we in a I don't know, 315 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: a burned down moment. Phoenix rising moment regardless, because so 316 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: much has been to worched. 317 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 2: It's safe to say that that's been the case through 318 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 2: the years, whether it was a fake war in Iraq 319 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: after nine to eleven, we can go way back with 320 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: our history. This is not history repeats itself, and democracy 321 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 2: is a journey, it's not a destination, and it's got 322 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 2: to change and it's got a shape shift to incorporate 323 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: the people who are in it. The founding fathers really 324 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: did not have an appreciation for the level of differences 325 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: amongst people and what it would mean to incorporate all 326 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 2: as equal. And so hopefully there are more and more 327 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 2: amendments that are past, but what we are seeing is 328 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 2: that there is legal recourse. And so this kind of 329 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: anger that you're describing, or people being at their wits end, 330 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: it's there's two types of anger, in my opinion. There's 331 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 2: the blamey kind, which you can only get stuck in, like, oh, 332 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: I can't believe you know that, I can't believe that 333 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 2: all these people are still into him, like you know, 334 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 2: the stuff that you can't do anything about. And then 335 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 2: there's the I am so sick of being sick of 336 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: this that that I'm not going to crawl under a rock. 337 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: I'm gonna vote, and I'm gonna get as many other 338 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 2: people out there as I can to vote, because the 339 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: system has not failed us. There We've have called constitutional 340 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 2: crises a couple of times, but here we are and 341 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 2: there's ninety one counts against him. Proud boys are being 342 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 2: thrown in jail. The problem is the wheels of justice 343 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: grind slowly, so it's a matter of being patient. But 344 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 2: the more patient you are, the more relief you will find. 345 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: It certainly will not detract from all the pain and 346 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: suffering that people have gone through, but to feel be 347 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 2: able to feel safer in our homes, in our neighborhoods, 348 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: in our own skin, that's that's the goal. So yeah, 349 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 2: that's what we all have to move towards. Don't get mad, 350 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 2: get even. 351 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, Doctor Lachman, I appreciate you so much for making 352 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: the time to join Woke app a lot to reflect 353 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: on and to and to think about, but definitely figuring 354 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: out a way to best channel rage and grief in 355 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: this time is definitely what I spend a lot of 356 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: time talking about on this show. So I appreciate you. 357 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: That is it for me to day dear friends on 358 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: woke f as always, Power to the people and to 359 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.