WEBVTT - Who Killed JFK? 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.200 It's nineteen seventy five. We're in New York City at 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:12.719 the offices of the Village Voice newspaper. Shaggy haired reporters 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.400 hack away their typewriters and chat around the coffee machine. 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:18.960 You can almost smell the smoke hanging in the air. 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.760 One reporter, Dick Russell, is going through his mail and 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.160 he comes across an anonymous letter. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:30.000 The letter was from someone who identified himself as the 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.199 Brooklyn Waiter, and he wrote that he was familiar with 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.120 a recent article I had published on the JFK assassination. 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.280 He also wrote that I was now part of the 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.760 quote great game of researching the JFK assassination, and he 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:46.040 wanted to bring the name of someone to my attention. 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.000 The name was Adolph Sheppi Wiedenbach. I'd never heard that 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.280 name before, but I kept reading The Brooklyn Waiter claimed 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.600 that Sheppey Widenbach was the mastermind behind the JFK assassination. 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:02.560 I didn't know what to make of it. I mean, 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:05.520 who the hell is Adolph Sheppey Wiedenbach. There was no 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.280 Internet back then, so I didn't have a way to 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:12.440 find out who this Sheppey w Edenbach was. Then years later, 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.280 I was working on a book about the assassination and 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:19.839 stumbled upon an article about a General Charles Willoughby. Charles 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.440 Willoughby rose through the ranks of the US military to 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.360 become the chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur during 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:29.760 World War II and then the Korean War. It got 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.920 my attention because Richard case Nagel had also worked for 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.640 the top secret Field Operations Intelligence under Willoughby's command. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.959 You might remember Field Operations Intelligence as the top secret 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:48.280 army intelligence unit closely connected to the CIA. Nagel described 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.800 its role as quote designed to conceal the true nature 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.440 of CIA objectives. 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.000 I continued to research Willoughby and found out that not 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.840 only was he an extreme, far right anti communist with 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.520 connections to Nagel, but he also had connections to CIA 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:07.200 chief Allen Dulles, the Hunt Oil family of Dallas, and 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:11.040 the Cuban exile community. And then, when I thought I'd 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:14.320 read just about everything I could about General Charles Willoughby, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:19.160 I stumbled upon his birth name. Charles Willoughby was born 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:23.400 Adolph Sheppy Wiedenbach. Was it possible that the letter that 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.320 the Brooklyn waiter sent me fifteen years earlier was a 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.800 major clue into who killed JFK. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.639 This is who killed JFK? Sixty years later? What can 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.920 we uncover about the greatest murder mystery in American history? 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.680 And why does it still matter today? I'm your host, 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:44.760 Solidad O'Brien. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.120 In the last episode, we covered the forty eight hours 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.240 between Oswald's arrest and his death. We heard about Jack 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:57.800 Ruby's extensive connections to the mafia and Oswald's connections to Ruby. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:02.200 We watched Ruby as he stopped to Oswald following the assassination, 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.400 then murdered Oswald on live TV. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.840 So where does this guy, Adolph Shepy Wiedenbach fit in 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.080 and if he's involved in the whole thing, why is 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.040 this the first time we're hearing his name. 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.600 He was a rogue and in this episode we'll find 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.520 out how he and other hardline rogue elements came together 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:24.320 to assassinate the president. 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.120 As I see the hallmarks or the markers of this 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.320 being a CIA operation that rogues would have conducted. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:35.000 That's Rolf Mowitt Larson. He worked as a CIA intelligence 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.240 officer from nineteen eighty three to two thousand and six. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.680 I do believe The reason I can say that with 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.720 a different kind of approach than others is because I 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:45.840 am a CIA officer. 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.520 Okay, it's time to lay out exactly what happened on 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:53.840 November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:58.520 All right, here we go. You've established three groups, each with. 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:03.080 A motive, and exiles were angry that Castro took over Cuba. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.840 They wanted the country back. The mafia wanted their hotels 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.720 and their casinos back. And the hardliners in the military 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:15.000 and the intelligence community were furious at Kennedy. They believed 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.080 that he had gone soft on communism and was selling 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:18.920 America out. 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:21.360 So what do you think happened? 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.240 Well, Ralph Mowatt Larson, the former CIA agent that we 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.640 just heard from, he said it had all the hallmarks 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.320 of a CIA operation, and he thinks that some people 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.680 connected to the agency were involved. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.880 As we go through this, it's important to keep in 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.760 mind Operation Northwoods. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.640 You'll remember. Operation Northwoods was the concept developed by the 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.400 CIA and the military. The idea was to stage a 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.360 false flag attack on a prominent US target, then blame 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.080 it on Castro to galvanize public support for an invasion 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:56.600 of Cuba. 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:01.560 CIA agent Bill Harvey's ZR Rifle explored the same tactic 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.920 of using a pro communist scapegoat. 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.920 If you remember, ZR Rifle was the CIA program run 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.799 by Bill Harvey that was designed to eliminate world leaders 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.839 that the US deemed problematic. In nineteen seventy six, the 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:20.640 Church Committee discovered classified documents about this program, which included 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:23.760 a handwritten note from Bill Harvey himself. 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:28.159 He wrote, quote planning should include provision for blaming checks 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:32.640 or soviets in case of blow. In other words, someone 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:36.640 who is pro communist. Harvey also instructed the Central Registry 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.880 to have a quote phony two oh one on that person. 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:43.919 A two oh one is a file that the CIA 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:46.240 keeps on someone they're interested in. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.719 He wrote that this phony two oh one quote should 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:54.320 look like a CE file. The CE stands for counter espionage. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.360 If they wanted a pro communist to take the blame 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.600 for an assassination, they had to have documentation to this person, 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.400 this fall guy, to prove that he was in fact 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.200 a Communist agent. The idea of a pro communist scapegoat 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.560 was part of both Operation Northwoods and Harvey's ZR Rifle. 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:18.560 Now let's get into the details. Once the motorcade had 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.800 been established. All the tactical leader had to do was 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.120 placed the shooters in positions to be most effective. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.320 Do you know what a triangulation is? 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:32.200 That's Colonel William Bishop being interviewed by Dick Russell. Bishop 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.719 worked in intelligence for many years and worked in black 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:36.960 ops for the CIA. 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:44.520 Only septrifie it happen nighte this depository, Resciole and the 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:46.559 Billinheer Courses Street. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.400 Now some people think they were two shooters, some people 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.080 think as many as six, but based on the forensic evidence, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.600 the locations of the wounds and the directions of the shots, 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:03.040 we believe there were at least four. There was definitely 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.560 a shooter on the sixth floor of the school Book 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.520 Depository building. There was another shooter behind the picket fence 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:13.560 on what we've come to call the grassy Kno. Based 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.600 on the bullet hole in Kennedy's back and some of 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.800 Governor Connolly's wounds. There were most likely shooters in the 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.480 Daltex building and the County Records building, and both of 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:29.520 these buildings were across Houston Street behind the motorcade. And finally, 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.360 based on the forensic evidence we have, we believed that 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.840 a fatal headshot would have come from the overpass on 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:37.600 the south. 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:41.840 Knole, so we were on the south side and we 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.520 were looking for shooters on the other side. 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:49.000 That's Tosh Plumley, the CIA mercenary pilot who said he 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:54.160 flew mobster Johnny Rocelli and CIA agent E Howard Hunt 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:55.560 to Dallas that day. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.360 Plumley was positioned on the southknoll of Dealey Plaza at 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.000 the time of the show sho He said a shot 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.640 definitely came from that area, and based on the position 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.760 Kennedy was in at the time and the result of 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.920 his head wound, we believe this was a kill shot. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.880 I know you've been researching this question for decades. Can 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.640 you name the people that you think fired at JFK 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:22.320 that day. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.320 I'm gonna let Dick take this one. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.920 With all of the information now available to us, we 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.440 can name four assassins who were all present in Dallas 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.560 that day. It's possible to make a highly educated guess 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.280 as to who those shooters were and who was responsible 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.000 for where they were placed. 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:57.920 The people were about to name were all cold blooded assassins. 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:03.640 To me, it was a job, no more and no less, 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.960 and a human target is no damn different. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:12.440 That's Colonel William Bishop again talking about his mindset during assassinations. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.000 Later on, during this interview with Dick Russell, Bishop admits 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.240 that he himself had a hand in the nineteen sixty 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:25.000 one assassination of Raphael Trujillo, president of the Dominican Republic. 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:28.240 You look upon your target as a ten can. You 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:33.840 don't allow yourself to become emotionally, psychologically, or mentally involved 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:34.600 with your target. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.880 You have to be attached to be good at it cold, Okay, 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.760 So who were the men in Dallas? 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:45.880 First there was a Cuban exile named Erminio Diaz Garcia. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.360 Emigio Lea. 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.360 That's fabian Escilante, a former Cuban intelligence officer. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.000 Escolante said that Armenio Diaz is one of the people 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.679 that we think was almost definitely involved in the plot 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:04.480 against Kennedy. 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:10.000 Who is Henrimnio Diaz Garcia. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.520 Escalante said that in the nineteen forties he was a 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:18.000 gangster in Cuba. He participated in a plot to kill 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:22.160 the president of Costa Rica. He said that Herminio killed 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.000 several people in the fifties. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:28.319 In twenty thirteen, an old friend of Garcia's Rinaldo Martinez 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:32.520 Gomez gave an interview stating that Garcia had admitted to 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.000 him that he had been part of the JFK assassination team. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.000 Garcia was killed in nineteen sixty six while on a 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.840 mission into Cuba to try and assassinate Fidel Castro. We 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.960 think another shooter was a man named Jean Swetra. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.680 We mentioned Swetra in an earlier episode. He was a 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:57.240 notorious French assassin. Cia files Declassified in nineteen seventy seven 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.360 revealed that Swetra was in Dallas on November twenty second, 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.120 and was then quickly and quietly deported from the country 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:10.439 almost immediately after the assassination. We believe another shooter was 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:15.040 a man named Charles Nicoletti, also known as Chucky the Typewriter. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.880 He was part of the Chicago mob and a hitman 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:20.280 for Sam g and Conna. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.880 You may remember Sam g and Conna was one of 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.760 two mobsters, along with Johnny Rosselli, that agreed to help 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:29.960 Bill Harvey assassinate Castro. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.280 Nicoletti was murdered in nineteen seventy seven, right before he 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:39.080 was due to testify to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.000 The fourth shooter we know about was a man named 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.440 Jack Cannon. Cannon worked under Charles Willoughby. 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.800 Willoughby was the guy you talked about earlier, the guy 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.559 you received the letter about exactly. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.360 Willoughby was the head of intelligence for Douglas MacArthur, and 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.680 after World War Two, Cannon worked with Willoughby. Cannon ran 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.200 a Bloe black ops group known as the z or 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.240 Z Unit. When I wrote my book on Richard K. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.400 S Nagel, The Man who Knew too Much, he told 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.280 me that Canon was a part of the CIA unit 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.800 that reported to Willoughby, and he indicated that Canon was 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:18.800 directly involved in the assassination of JFK. 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.120 It seems like a lot of people to be working 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:23.160 on a secret plot. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.240 It was all compartmentalized. Everything was done on a need 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.679 to know basis. Most likely none of the shooters were 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.600 aware of the others, so in that sense, they didn't 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.280 work together. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.080 The CIA agents that we talked to said that people 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.360 in operations like this would be given very specific instructions 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.560 of what they were expected to do. They would know 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.319 little or nothing about the other people involved. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.480 As both of you said a little while ago, it's 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.360 nice to name the shooters, but knowing who put them there, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:55.320 that's the real question. Who do you think orchestrated the 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:56.720 assassination of JFK. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.280 The challenge to answering that is that people want a 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.160 simple answer, and it isn't simple. 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.480 I can hear the audience groaning as you say that. 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.200 No, no, no, don't worry. We're about to answer you 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:11.480 very directly. But it isn't a one word answer. It 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:15.280 wasn't the CIA, the mafia, or the Cuban exiles, but 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.720 it was rogue individuals that came from those worlds. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:23.320 Operation Northwoods and ZR Rifle served as the blueprint. The 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:26.600 people that wrote those documents never thought they would ever 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:29.440 see the light of day. They thought that it would 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.800 stay secret forever. Alan Dulles, the godfather of the CIA, 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.880 kept these programs from the War and Commission. He knew 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:39.320 what a bombshell it would be. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.559 So to start, none of this happens without the knowledge 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:45.839 of Alan Dullas. 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.640 We don't think that Dulles played an active role in 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.080 the planning, but we do think he would have been 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:52.120 aware of the plan. 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.720 Why do you say that, because it's inconceivable that he 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.520 wouldn't be aware of something like this, and it explains 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:03.280 why he was at the remote CIA facility known as 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.520 the Farm on the day of the assassination. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:07.280 What's the farm? 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:11.320 This was the top secret facility. What the hell was 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.800 Alan Dalles doing going to a CIA facility when he 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.559 had been fired two years before. 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.000 That's David Talbot, the author of a book on Dulles 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:21.880 called The Devil's Chessboard. 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.480 He was there all during that fateful weekend when President 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:29.240 Kenny was killed and when Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.800 Oswald on national television. 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.360 With Dulles's approval. I think that James Angleton and David 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.160 Attlee Phillips were responsible for ultimately setting up Oswald. 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.880 You'll remember James Jesus Angleton as the poet spy. He 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.800 named his world of counterintelligence the Wilderness of Mirrors. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:52.000 He and David Attlee Phillips, who worked under Angleton, were 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.080 the ones moving Oswald around the chessboard. They were developing 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.600 him as a pro communist who would ultimately take the blame. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.680 Otivele was a damn thing in the world, but a dicoy. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:04.760 He was a patsy. 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.880 We started this investigation with Lee Harvey Oswald famously saying 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.880 I'm just a patsy. And now Rob, you're fully explaining 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:16.320 why you think that's true. 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:21.760 Let's take a moment to understand why Oswald's saying he's 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.840 a patsy is so important. If I was arrested for 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.760 a murder I didn't commit, I would say I'm innocent. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.200 I didn't do it. You got the wrong guy. But 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:34.400 Oswald says I'm just a patsy. Now, why would he 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.760 say that? If you look at assassinations of world leaders 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:43.440 throughout history, Julius Caesar, Abraham Lincoln, what happened after their deaths? 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.240 Somebody claimed responsibility? 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.680 Exactly when he was arrested, he said, I'm a patsy. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.800 That's not the words of an assassin who prattly kills 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:54.440 the president. 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:56.480 That's David Talbot again. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:02.280 John Wilkes Booth said six semper tyrannus. As he'd left 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.880 to the stage after killing Lincoln, he was proud that 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.400 he'd killed the. 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:12.400 President six semper tyrannus, which means thus always to tyrants, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:13.480 if you're going to. 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.800 Kill somebody for political reasons, and you think that you're 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.800 doing your country a great service, you want to own it. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.520 What about those who say he was just someone looking 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.280 to make his mark on the world, even. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.040 More reason to own it. If you're nobody and you 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.640 want to feel important, to take your place in history, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.160 you want to own that. Setting up Oswald to take 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.240 the fall also explains the cover up. How do you mean, Well, 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.800 we know that Oswald had extensive connections to the CIA, 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.920 So the people who had been handling him since the 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.440 late fifties, they now had a personal incentive to make 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:51.560 sure that everything was covered up. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.720 Their fingerprints were all over Oswald, even if they had 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.000 nothing to do with the assassination directly, and any real 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.119 investigation would reveal their involvement. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.119 So the men responsible for Dallas were counting on the 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.720 fact that the CIA and FBI would have to close 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.240 ranks in the cover up because of their connections to Oswald. 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:17.200 Exactly. Anyone who dealt with Oswald handled his file, read 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:20.800 his mail, cut his paychecks, gave him his assignments while 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.920 he was in the Marines, took care of him when 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:26.360 he got out. They now had to deny any connection 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.320 to Oswald, even if they had nothing to do with 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:33.000 the assassination. And we know what happened to those who 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:33.800 tried to talk. 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:38.159 Okay, so you're saying that we have Dulles as aware 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.160 of the event, and Angleton and Atlee Phillips making sure 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.960 there was a patsy to take the blame, but who 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:45.679 actually orchestrated This. 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.480 Evidence leads us to the ZR Rifle Chief Bill Harvey 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.679 as the strategist and General Charles Willoughby as the tactician. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.560 Willoughby and Harvey then tapped the mafia and the Cuban 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.119 exiles to help provide the shooters. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.520 I think Harvey and Rosselli and a couple other guys 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.159 were the people who were training the assassins, and the 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:14.120 theory is that Harvey decided to direct those assassins against Kennedy. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.280 That's Robert Blakey again. You'll remember he was in charge 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.320 of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in nineteen seventy nine. 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.080 They concluded that President Kennedy was murdered as a result 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:27.280 of a conspiracy. 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.119 Harvey's hatred for Kennedy was well documented. He hated the 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:35.760 president's politics, and he saw his path toward peace as 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.280 the act of a trader, and he hated Kennedy personally 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.879 for banishing him to Rome. As we know, Harvey was 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.760 also in charge of the CIA's program of hiring assassins 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.480 to kill political leaders around the world, and Willoughby was 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.320 as staunch and Handi Communist as you could find. He 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.680 was deeply involved in organizations like the John Birch Society 0:18:56.760 --> 0:19:00.199 and others that would stop at nothing to destroy the 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.679 Red menace. He also had a history of involvement in 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:04.959 violent black ops. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.920 The assassination in Dallas came directly out of the Operation 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:14.040 Northwoods and ZR Rifle playbooks. It had been implemented against 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:19.320 world leaders many times, just never at an American target. 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.000 I'm sure the audience, just like me, needs a moment 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:25.400 to digest all this. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.240 To me, the names of the shooters and the men 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:32.400 behind them is less important than the reason it happened. 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:37.119 Kennedy represented progress. He wanted to move us away from 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:42.480 nuclear annihilation toward peace, but sadly it prompted a coup 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:44.840 that profoundly changed history. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:58.320 Up next, why it matters that we're asking that question today? 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.919 I came into the story interested in whether the question 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:12.359 who killed JFK? Could actually be answered? And to what 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:17.639 degree did this question destabilize American's faith in our country's leadership. 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.000 The murder of President Kennedy seems to be a moment 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.440 where trust was replaced with growing skepticism. Here's Robert Blakey, 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:30.360 who led the House Select Committee on Assassinations in nineteen 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.320 seventy six, who still puzzles over it almost forty years later. 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:41.360 Do you think who killed JFK Is even a relevant 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.200 and important question today? 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:44.280 Yes. 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.720 If you talk to young people today, they're turned off 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.480 by the society in which they live. They're cynical. Where 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:55.439 did the cynicism come from? I think the cynicism that 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.680 are characteristic of young people today are not entirely related 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.399 to but are the outcome of the cynicism over the 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:04.440 War On Commission War. 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.360 To this day, a US president was assassinated, and it's 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:13.840 likely that the real perpetrators were not held accountable. The 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.120 fact that some of these perpetrators may have been officials 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.920 in the US agencies designed to protect us is likely 0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:25.000 the very reason why people like rob continue to pursue 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:29.359 this question. That and the fact that clues and leads 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.760 just keeps slipping out, like the Katzenbach Memo, which ordered 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.960 the Warren Commission to pin it all on Oswald that 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.879 was only revealed in the nineteen seventies, the expose about 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.680 George Joan Edes, the CIA liaison to the House Select Committee, 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:47.679 that only came out in two thousand and one, And 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.680 in twenty twenty three, former Secret Service agent Paul Landis 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.320 came forward with a testimony that throws into question the 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.479 single bullet theory. It's impossible to stand at a fixed 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:03.000 point in history and say with one hundred percent certainty 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:08.480 we know who killed JFK. Because the story continues to evolve. 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:14.119 So then what does closure look like? You're never gonna 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.760 know for sure. There is no document that eventually someone 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:22.320 releases that says, okay, here was the plot in full. 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.119 I think the only closure you get is that you 0:22:25.240 --> 0:22:28.200 come to certain conclusions. So this podcast series is going 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.120 to show that there was a huge cover up going on. 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.720 To people like Dick Russell crystallizing his theory is closure. 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:40.480 For others like Jefferson Morley, closure isn't up to us. 0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:44.440 The CIA records that are still classified they will help 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:45.359 answer this question. 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.720 In other words, as long as the government is holding 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:53.159 on to records, this story isn't over. But as time passes, 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:55.840 even that becomes more complicated. 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:58.040 You know, one thing that we see is when they 0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:01.359 release these records, you know, people who would have been 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:04.760 really interesting to interview have died. 0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:06.640 They can't talk anymore. 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.239 This guy writes a detailed memo. His name didn't come 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.399 out until twenty twenty two, you know, and when we 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:15.040 get the name, you going, look, the guy died in 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:18.359 twenty seventeen. You know, if we'd had that document in 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:22.360 twenty seventeen, that would have been a very important interview. 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.240 For historians like John Meacham. It's about what America might 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:29.280 have been had Kennedy survived. 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:35.280 It is tempting to want to see our martyred King 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:40.040 as wiser and better than he might have turned out 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:44.960 to be. But it's not nostalgic to say that the 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.800 Kennedy of sixty one was not the Kennedy of sixty two, 0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:51.199 and that Kennedy of sixty two was not the Kennedy 0:23:51.240 --> 0:23:52.240 of sixty three. 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:55.840 I think there's a piece of Americana that feels like, 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.800 if Kennedy had survived, the country would have avoided the 0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:03.560 view now moar, because that's what Kennedy was promising when 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:06.920