1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: The people of Ukraine are enduring, strong and they will fight, 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: but they are outgunned. I would have liked to have 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: seen the early imposition of sanctions. I think Lad mccuten's 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: heard enough tough talk. Bloomberg Sound on Politics, policy and 6 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: perspective from DC's top names. Not only is the United 7 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: States the biggest consumer economies in the world, it's also 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: the biggest consumer of gasoline. In particular, Mitigations for pandemic 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: is really on a continuum. The more transmission and the 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: more risk, the more layers of mitigation we need. Bloomberg 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. It's on 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: in Ukraine where Russia is on the move. Tonight the 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: Blinken lap Rock meeting is off as the West announces 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: new sanctions against Moscow. Today. Welcome to the fastest hour 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: in politics and historic day in geo politics, as the 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: Biden administration follows European lies in rolling out economic penalties 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: after declaring yes the start of a Russian invasion. Will 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: get details on American sanctions coming up from Bloomberg. Congress 19 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: reporter Dan Flatley now that we have details and analysis 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: from Stephen Maul, former US Ambassador to Poland, lead coordinator 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: of the Iran Nuclear Deal and now Vice Provost Global Affairs, 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: University of Virginia. Later, our conversation with former Alaska Senator 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: Mark Begets shown the call for heavier sanctions and the 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: impact this could all have on the energy sector. Our 25 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: panel today we're bloomed by, joined by I should say, 26 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeannie Chanzano along today with Boyd Mathison, 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 1: back with US former chief of staff to Senator Mike Lee. 28 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: The Biden administration making it clear today, yes this is 29 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: an invasion, Yes there will be consequences. This after Vladimir 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: Putin made clear that Russia would formally acknowledge the Russian 31 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: back separatist areas in the don Boss region of Ukraine 32 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: now household names Donatsk and Hotsk and moved to put 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: troops in those areas as well as Russia says to 34 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: keep the peace. Not so much from the view of 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: the West. We heard from our allies first this morning, 36 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: including German Chancellor al Off Schultz went so far as 37 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: to say the words nord Stream to out loud, no 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: certification no operation. We then heard this afternoon from President Biden. 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: He addressed the nation from the East Room of the 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: White House. Here is to put us simply, Russia just 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: an ounced that it is carving out a big chunk 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: of Ukraine last night, putting authorized Russian forces to deploy 43 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: into the region. These regions. Today he asserted that these 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: regions are actually extend deeper than the two areas he recognized, 45 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: claiming large areas currently under the jurisdictionally the Ukraine government. 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: He's setting up a rationale to take more territory by force, 47 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: in my view, so there will be more, according to 48 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: President Biden. And after senior administration officials hesitated to use 49 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: the word invasion when talking with reporters last night, sending 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: Cable News into a froth, President Biden did not mince 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: words on that today. Here he is again today at 52 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: the White House. This is the beginning of a Russian 53 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: invasion of Ukraine, as he indicated, an asked permission to 54 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: be able to do from his douma. So let's begin 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: to uh So, I'm going to begin to impose sanctions 56 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: and response far beyond the steps we and our allies 57 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: and partners implemented in and if Russia goes further with 58 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: this invasion, we stand prepared to go further as with sanctions. Okay, 59 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: so up another notch. The President says he's also sending 60 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: more troops into the Baltics, help defending our NATO countries 61 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: or NATO allies, promising tougher sanctions as he just heard, 62 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: if Putin goes further into Ukraine. It was after that 63 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: we learned, as Charlie Pellet just mentioned, Secretary of State 64 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: Anthony B. Lincoln canceling the plan meeting for later this 65 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: week with Sergei laugh Rov. So, I guess we are 66 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: done talking. You heard the president then today live on 67 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. He took no questions, but we have several, 68 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: and we're joined now by Bloomberg Congress reporter Dan Flatley, 69 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: who has been covering the sanctioned side of this story today. Dan, 70 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: we thank you for being here. The sanctions target the 71 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: sale of Russia's sovereign debt appear, though to spare Russia's 72 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: biggest banks. Are they saving the worst for later? Well? 73 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: I think it's a question of you do in some 74 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: sense have to keep something in reserve because uh, they're 75 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: watching the situation very closely. I think that the situation 76 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: that was contemplated in the weeks leading up to this 77 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: was tanks rolling into Kiev and a sort of all 78 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: out invasion, you know that we might expect to see. Um, 79 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 1: So what do we get to this? I think we 80 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: got basically what is a ratcheting up on both sides. 81 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: So President of Vladimir Putin, Russian President Vladimir Putin sort 82 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: of uh increased pressure on the Western ally on the 83 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: US to respond with his recognition of these two separatist 84 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: areas yesterday and his request to have troops move into 85 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: those regions today. And what the US has done is 86 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: basically said, okay, we're going to start rolling out in 87 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: waves tranchas of sanctions and and today we saw sovereign debt, 88 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: which is a big deal, but perhaps not as far 89 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: as some in Congress wanted to see, and also some 90 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: sanctions on individual banks and individual uh people in in Russia. 91 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: So it's it's a sort of a tips for chat 92 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: that we're looking at right now, and the question is 93 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: where do we go from here? Thanks to Bloomberg's Dan 94 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: flatly being with us on Bloomberg Sound On, we had 95 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: a new voice to the conversation. Stephen mull Is, former 96 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: US Ambassador to Poland and the lead coordinator on the 97 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: Iran nuclear Deal, now Vice Provost for Global Affairs at 98 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: the University of Virginia. Ambassador, thank you for joining us, 99 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us today. With this new round 100 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: of sanctions. Do anything to stop Russia, Well, I think 101 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: has to be pretty pessimistic that day will. The shocking 102 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: speech that Prutin gave last night basically challenging the right 103 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: of Ukraine to exist at all as a nation, shows 104 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: pretty intent that his ultimate objective is to wipe Ukraine 105 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: off the map as an independent state. Now, these first 106 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: steps that the Biden administration announced today, I don't think 107 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: it's going to be enough to turn him back from that. 108 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: So I think we're going to be looking at over 109 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: the next days and weeks an incremental move by by 110 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: Russia to see how far it can get in needing 111 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: the objective that Prutin is laid out. I don't know 112 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: that there's any sanction that the US could impose that 113 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: would would stop them from going all the way through 114 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: with what Prutin is clearly set as his as his course. 115 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: Uh the Nord stream pipeline decision by the Germans certainly 116 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: was was a surprise. I think the Prutin that the 117 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: Germans went along without, so it's it's there. He's going 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: to be testing us moving moving forward. In the days 119 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: of weeks weeks ahead, we heard from Secretary of State 120 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, Anthony Blinkoln a short time ago, on 121 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: his meeting that had been scheduled for this week with 122 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: the Russian Foreign minister. Here's what he said. I agreed 123 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov this week on 124 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: February to discuss our country's respective concerns about European security, 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: but only if Russia did not invade Ukraine. Now that 126 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: we see the invasion is beginning and Russia has made 127 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: clear its wholesale rejection of diplomacy, Uh, it does not 128 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,559 Speaker 1: make sense to go forward with that meeting at this time. 129 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: Ambassador I suspect you could have said this yesterday this morning. 130 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: Was there a hope going into this day that there 131 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: might still be a diplomatic path And does this mean 132 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: there really is no longer when we're done talking, Well, 133 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: you know, that's certainly how it looks today, Joe, But 134 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: you know, if you look at how Russia has operated 135 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: over the past twenty or thirty years, UM, they him 136 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: to take these steps uh incrementally, and when the situation 137 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: turns against them, UH, the door might suddenly open up 138 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: again for diplomacy. We may remember back in two thousand 139 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: and eight, Russia did something very similar against Georgia. It 140 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: recognized breakaway to break away provinces in Georgia in two 141 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, sent him the troops to secure them, 142 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: and then crossed over those borders into the rest of Georgia. UH. 143 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: And then when international outrage started building sanctions began building, 144 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: the Russians said, oh, okay, we'll we'll pull back into 145 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: those two provinces, and they drew the line at that. 146 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: So if these sanctions get to be so painful that 147 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: it turns puting it from from proceeding, that that door 148 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: may open. But I think it's it's pretty close, pretty tightly. 149 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,960 Speaker 1: Right now. The president says he's sending more troops into 150 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe. More troops will be arriving in Poland. We 151 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: already have several thousand there. As the former ambassador to Poland, 152 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: I wonder what you make of this rategy to reinforce 153 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: that particular border. Having heard from UH from Yen Stoltenberg 154 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: last week that this is the new normal for Europe, 155 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: that this existential threat from Russia is going to be 156 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: a constant ambassador. Are we are we doing enough? And 157 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: are those troops going to stay there? Well? Well, well 158 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: we'll have to see. I was actually serving in in 159 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: Poland back in two thousand fourteen when Russia invaded Ukraine 160 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: the first time, and UH haven't been there, I can 161 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: tell you our Polish allies were in a pretty severe 162 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: panic that the Russians were going to stop at Ukraine 163 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: and they needed urgently some reinforcement, some sign that the 164 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: US would honor its NATO obligation to come to Poland 165 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: suspendence if it were necessary. That feeling is very much 166 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: dominant in Poland again today. The polls are really grateful 167 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: to UH to to have US. We're up to about 168 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: nine thousand troops there now. We're putting other military hardware 169 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: into there as as well, and we'll watch and wait 170 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: to see how it how it plays out. Those troops. 171 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: I expect if this does go to a full scale 172 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: conflict in Ukraine, those troops are going to be really 173 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: helpful to the Poles in helping the process. It's going 174 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: to be a massive humanitarian that's the part of this story. 175 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: We're not talking about it. A massive refugee crisis, Ambassador, 176 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: is going to be Poland's problem. That's that's right in. 177 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: The US will be there to help with with that. 178 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: If this is the new normal of let's say Putin 179 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: succeeds and takes over all of Ukraine, Uh, then we're 180 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: looking at a new line in Europe that wasn't there before, 181 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: and a pretty hostile, tense line on the on the 182 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: border of NATO directly with with Russia. And we'll also 183 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: see the three Baltic states virtually cut off the rest 184 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: of Europe except for a hundred mile wide corridor in 185 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: northeastern Poland. They'll be completely surrounded by Russia and bella rouche. Ambassador. 186 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm out of time. Do you see Vladimir 187 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: Putin going all the way to keep uh, it's it's 188 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: it's it's too soon to tell. I. I don't see 189 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: it happening because it seems like it would be a 190 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: pretty bad strategic mistake for him. But he's definitely laid 191 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: the predicate for it. Ambassador Stephen Mull, former Ambassador to Poland, 192 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: lead coordinator of the Iran nuclear Deal, a whole other 193 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: conversation we need to have, and now Vice Provost for 194 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,719 Speaker 1: Global Affairs at the University of Virginia, thank you for 195 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: the insights coming up. We assemble the panel on sound 196 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: on Geanie Schanzano is with us, along with Boyd Mathieson 197 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: on a historic day in politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This 198 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. We must meet the moment and we must 199 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: not look away. History tells us that looking the other 200 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: way in the face of such hostility will be a 201 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: far more costly path. This is a straight out of 202 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: President Putin's playbook. This is the first trons, the first 203 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: barrage of what we are prepared to do. Every indication 204 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: is that the Russia continues to plan for a full 205 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: scale attack Ukraine, Washington, and Western Europe are really consumed 206 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: today with Russia's move yesterday to recognize separatists in the 207 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: Dombas in Ukraine. Today, President Putin has torn the mess 208 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: Agreement to shreds the sounds of war with the headline 209 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: on the terminal Biden ups Russia sanctions, calls Ukraine invasion underway. 210 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: This after the President said Friday, remember he believed Vladimir 211 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: Putin had made up his mind to invade. And it 212 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: follows word from Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin that Russian forces 213 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: along the Ukraine border. We're beginning to uncoil. It turns 214 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: out both all right, and we're trying to unpack everything 215 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: we've learned since this story really begin to take shape yesterday, 216 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: this new phase of the standoff not so much of 217 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: a standoff anymore. And so we assemble the panel now. 218 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Chanzano is with us along today 219 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: with Boyd Matheson, former Chief of Staff Senator Mike Lee, 220 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: Republican from Utah. It's great to have both of you 221 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: with this, Genie. I'll start with the simple question, Well, 222 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: these sanctions do anything this next layer, if we can 223 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: call it that too slow or stop the advance that 224 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is making in Ukraine. Well, I have to 225 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 1: say that Jimmy Hendricks music is their right mood. Joe Matthews, right, 226 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: MUTI sobering time, that's right, you know. In terms of 227 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: the sanctions, I have to agree with the ambassador I'm 228 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: not sure there is anything the US can do at 229 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: this point to stop Putin from what he envisions visa 230 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: vi Ukraine. If if sanctions is what is on the 231 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: what are on the table? I mean, you look at 232 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: the history of sanctions in our country. They begin in 233 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: the early twentieth century, they heat in the nineteen seventies. 234 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: They've never been effective in terms of changing behavior, except 235 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: in the one case in which your previous guest, Ambastad 236 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: Mole was the chief implementer on in the case of Iran. 237 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: But besides that, we haven't been able to change behavior. 238 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: We've been able to put a cost on somebody will 239 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: do that with Russia and Putin, But changing behavior is 240 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: another matter, and that's probably not in the offing this 241 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: time unfortunately. So Boyd matheson why not just pile it on. 242 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: I know that the administration was reluctant to do something upfront, 243 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: they thought they lose leverage. But if Vladimir Putin is 244 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: going for, what are we waiting for? Yeah? I think 245 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: Jenny brings such a great point in terms of things 246 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: have never been the big behavior changer that we wish 247 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: they were. But if it is going to be, it 248 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: has to be both united and it has to be significant. 249 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: One of the things that's been a little interesting to 250 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: me today as well. Everyone keeps saying how united NATO 251 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: is in terms of opposition to Vladimir Putin and what 252 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: he is doing. They're all acting very independently. Germany came 253 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: out and talked about the North Stream to pipeline, the 254 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: UK Boris Johnson talked about things that they were going 255 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: to do, and so there wasn't this really united front 256 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: in terms of this is what we're all going to do. 257 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: We're all going to step forward together, and this is 258 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: why it's going to be significant pain now and then 259 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: we can ratchet them back if behavior does change. Seems 260 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: sanctions have become, I guess, bipartisan since the weekend. Even 261 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: Democrats like Senator Chris Coon's this morning, we're calling on 262 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: the White House to implement immediate sanctions. We heard earlier 263 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: as well from Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leaders at home, 264 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: because you know, the Congress is on recess right now. 265 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: He talked about this in Kentucky. Here's Mitch McConnell. What's 266 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: changed since that earlier period is the impression we have 267 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: left first with the abandonment of Afghanistan, that America is 268 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: not interested in playing as large a leadership role as 269 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: we used to. He was criticizing the Biden administration for 270 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: allowing this to faster, for implementing policies or ignoring others 271 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: that that emboldened Vladimir Putin. Boyd, is he right? Yeah? 272 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: I think it doesn't empower Putin in terms of, you know, 273 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: what he's doing, what he's looking at. And while these 274 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: different senators are weighing in and giving a little bit there, 275 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: I think we're still missing the big thing in terms 276 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: of what we actually need to do or do differently 277 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: if we're really again, it goes back to what Janie 278 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: was talking about, and the way you change behavior is 279 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: not through just these high level things, through oligarchs and 280 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: some of those things that I think also the language matters. 281 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: I gave the President of high praise last week. He 282 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: came out, he was on time, he was sharp, he 283 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: was forceful. Today's was less. So it was much more 284 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: of this at the beginning of an invasion, so we'll 285 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: have the beginning of sanctions. I don't think that does 286 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: anything to Vladimir Putin. And remember Vladimir Putin he dousiness 287 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: in terms of judo. He's a judo master, and judo 288 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: you never win with the big throw, win by scoring 289 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: very small points. So he laid the case out to 290 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: his people. He now has justification for peacekeeping troops, not 291 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 1: in Ukraine but in the two independent regions, and so 292 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: he's playing a game of scoring points and moving forward. 293 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: We're all looking for the throw invasion. I don't think 294 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: that's what's gonna come. Ji. What's your take on from 295 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: a different way? Thanks, what's your take on President Biden? Jennie? 296 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: How how was his posture? How is his tone today? 297 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: How did he do? The world was watching when he 298 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: walked into the east room. You know, I thought he 299 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: could have been more forceful. I agree with Boyd on that, 300 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: and I agree with Boyd's assessment on judo. He is 301 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: absolutely right. That's how Putin plays us, and that's why 302 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: we're seeing this step yesterday, and he'll continue on that front. 303 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll get new judo picks soon or topless equestrian 304 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: photos from the President of Russia. Genie and Boyd. Thanks. 305 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: Will reassemble the panel a bit later this hour, next 306 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: to conversation with the former Senator for Alaska, Mark Begot 307 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: here on sound On, I'm Joe Matthew, this is Bloomberg. 308 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: One of the more compelling lines from President Biden's addressed 309 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: today once we got past the big news, was when 310 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: he said we need to be honest about the potential 311 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: costs for Americans. He knows as well as anyone that 312 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: crude oil prices, gasoline prices, natural gas prices could move 313 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: higher and stay higher if this goes the wrong way, 314 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: The analyst notes today talking about a hundred fifty dollar 315 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: a barrel crude just one of the economic risks that 316 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: comes with Russia's move, risks that also include sanctions. You 317 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: can't isolate the impact of sanctions as easily as you 318 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: might think. And this is where we begin with former 319 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: Alaska Senator Mark begat now strategic consulting adviser of Brownstein Hyatt. Senator, 320 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: it's great to have you here. You're no stranger to 321 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: the energy industry, withbviously being from Alaska, and I wonder 322 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: how bad you think this is gonna hurt. Well, it 323 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: goes for Alaska. It's kind of a mixed bag, right 324 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: because the higher the old prices, more revenue. But for 325 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,199 Speaker 1: the country. But for the country it's bad because it 326 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: means consumer prices are going to go up again. The 327 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: cost I mean here in Alaska where for regular you 328 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: know gas unlett it it's about four bucks a good 329 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: little shy of four dollars a gallon, which is fairly expensive. 330 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: And when you go out to rural Alaska where it's 331 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: harder to get fuel sources out there, it can be 332 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: six and a half seven dollars a gallon. So you know, 333 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: it has an impact of everyday people. Now to the 334 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: state coffers, it adds to it. But you know what's 335 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: more amazing is you think about it and again today 336 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: you're watching all this debate. Uh. You know I'm biased 337 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: here of course because I think Alaska, with this natural 338 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: gas line um baling gie, this is now the time 339 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: to build it. Depend on our own Quit trying to 340 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: mess around with Russia, you know Europe who now cancel 341 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: their gas line at least at this point. You know 342 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: they'll need sources that are from friendly people. And there's 343 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: no question the us IS and the len G plant 344 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: and the L and G gas line in Alaska for 345 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: the first time ever through an independent report shows it 346 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: economical and cheaper than any gas UH in the country, 347 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: but we gotta it has impact. It's gonna hurt people. 348 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: There's a story today the Biden administration has stopped issuing 349 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: permits for new oil and gas drilling on federal land, 350 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: as I read on the terminal, a move that could 351 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: complicate efforts to tame gas prices poised to top, as 352 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: you just point out four dollars a gallon amid the 353 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 1: Russia Ukraine conflict. UH. Senator you're a Democrat. Republicans, though, 354 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: have said that it's it's the it's President Biden's energy 355 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: policies that have that have been part emboldened and led 356 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin to this point? Is that your view? Well, 357 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: I'm not sure led this point, but I would say 358 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: this that the Biden administration, when you're going to Saudi 359 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: Arabia to ask them to, you know, turn the pickets 360 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: on more, is not It is not good UH, domestic 361 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: policy or international policy from the US. We have the 362 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: resources here, and the biggest complaint I guess I would 363 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: have as you have the Department of Interior, who make, 364 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: you know, issues these permits and does all that, and 365 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: their coordination with the Department of defense should be much higher, 366 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: especially because oil and gaser energy is a national security 367 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: issue period and the coordination between the two should be 368 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: much stronger than it is now. Because if you and 369 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: I went over Department of Transferred, Department of Defense and 370 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,719 Speaker 1: ask them the question, what do you think, they'd say, Well, 371 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: if we had more domestic we could protect our allies. 372 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: You go to do I, Department of Material and they 373 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: tell you we want less of it on federal lands. 374 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: So they need to get a much more firmer policy 375 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: that includes not only climate change is important and all 376 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: the other issues that are important related to that, but 377 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: national security for us in our allies. Senator, I would 378 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: like to ask you about sanctions a little more specifically 379 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: with regard to what's happening with Russia Ukraine. Uh, there 380 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 1: was a deal they said was on the one yard line. 381 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: I believe it was Bob and end As, the Senator 382 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: from New Jersey who said that he of course chairs 383 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He and his and the 384 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: ranking member Jim rish were on national television saying we're 385 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: we're about to have a breakthrough. Of course, there was 386 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: never a deal, and hearing Mitch McConnell talk about all 387 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: of this today got me thinking, let's listen to the 388 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: minority leader who was speaking at home in Kentucky as 389 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: this unfolds. Let me make it perfectly clear, the toughest 390 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: possible sunctions plus no Nordstream too, not now, not tomorrow, 391 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,720 Speaker 1: not over, Senator, did this just come down to a 392 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: matter of timing? It seems like Republicans and Democrats agree 393 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,959 Speaker 1: that Russia should be sanctioned, that there should not be 394 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: an invasion of Ukraine. How come Capitol Hill couldn't get 395 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: it together? Well, because it's Capitol Hill. I hate to 396 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: see this as a former member. The action of an 397 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: action if that makes sense, Yeah, does. And that's a 398 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: problem when you come that close to to striking a deal. Yes, 399 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: that part of it is this uncertainty sometimes among members 400 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: about well, if we do act, what will happen? And 401 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: in this situation, I'm a much harder, you know, I 402 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: would be just saying to put the sanctions down, make 403 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: it clear who's in charge, and you know what, every 404 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: time we don't do that, especially Congress. Congress is generally 405 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: a lagger, meaning they lag indicators. They lag result in 406 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: words when the when the economy needs help, they're late 407 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: to the game. Sometimes when technology is advancing, they're late 408 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: to the game. And here here it is again, and 409 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: it's like an m O of Congress. And what they 410 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: should do in this situation is push the envelope hard. 411 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: Make it clear what he said today they should said 412 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: two weeks ago. You know, get on the show because 413 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: food and understands one thing, and that is that kind 414 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: of decision making if you've vacillate or wishy washy. He 415 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: likes that he plays it well, you know, for all 416 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: I know, maybe maybe short in the market, you know, 417 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: taking money with his statement, who knows, But I wouldn't 418 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: put anything past them. And uh, but you gotta push hard, 419 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: and if you don't, then they take advantage and they 420 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: take an inch here an inch there. Sounds like you 421 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: really missed the job, sider. I missed it on one hand, 422 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,239 Speaker 1: But I love calling my former colleagues and telling them 423 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: what I'm telling you right now, saying what do you do? 424 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: And but I just you know, Congress has gotten themselves 425 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: in a position where they they're just kind of frozen 426 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: on many fronts. You contin this today and tomorrow it's 427 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: the budget, and next week it could be something else. 428 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: They just have an inability to make kind of the bold, 429 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 1: definitive decisions that the American people need more than ever, 430 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: especially in this kind of situation. Former Alaska Senator Mark 431 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: Begat now with Brownstein, Hyatt and here on sound On, 432 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: We thank you senator for the insights four dollars a 433 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: gallon in Alaska seven, he said in some areas. Will 434 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: reassemble the panel next. Genie and Boyd are with us 435 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: on the Tuesday edition. I'm Joe Matthew, This is Bloomberg. 436 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg, So Long with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 437 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: The conventional wisdom says people do not vote on foreign 438 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: policy issues, right will that be the case? Though this year, 439 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: when you consider Russian aggression feeding energy prices, it does 440 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,679 Speaker 1: become a bigger question. And so we reassemble the panel 441 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: with Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie Chantano and Boyd mathieson with 442 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: us today. Former chief of staff for Senator Mike Lee Boyd. 443 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know Senator Bagas now that he's not 444 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill any longer, he speaks freely, which makes 445 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: it always a fascinating conversation. Maybe you feel the same 446 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: way sometimes. But when you consider four dollars a gallon 447 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: five if you're in California, seven apparently if you're in 448 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: parts of Alaska right now, how does this conversation end. 449 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: I don't think another spr release, I'm assuming, is going 450 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 1: to have, you know, a major dent in the kind 451 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: of supply issues that we would be talking about here 452 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: if there was a major interruption in Russia. Yeah, And 453 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: I think that's the real challenge for the administration is 454 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: to be in tune with the American people. You heard 455 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: the President today address that immediately. We're going to try 456 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: to do what we can to make that as as 457 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: least disruptive as possible. But of course the real key is, 458 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, because we are actually taking in oil from Russia, 459 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: that actually gives Vladimir Putin leverage that spikes up the price, 460 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: uh and and it helps him fund everything that he 461 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: wants to do. So I think voters are starting to 462 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: both feel that because they're feeling it themselves at the pump, 463 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: but they're also kind of scratching their heads saying, well, 464 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: wait a minute, well, why did the administration you know, 465 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: take the sanctions off of that pipeline for Germany? Why 466 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: did they shut down a lot of the pipelines and 467 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: the things that happening here in the US to make 468 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: us more energy independent? So those are questions of the 469 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 1: administration is going to have to lay out because people 470 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: are feeling it. Those pocketbook issues are going to drive 471 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: two and the administration has to have an empathetic answer 472 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: to what that means to the American people. There is 473 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: more to this, of course, Genie. There's posture. Uh, there's credibility. 474 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: There's the decisions that Joe Biden is making for the 475 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: better of the country and and not necessarily keeping you know, 476 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: oil prices in mind in the near term here. How 477 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: do you balance those two when you consider an electorate 478 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: you know that's in and out of this. Uh, this 479 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: story maybe wasn't plugged in to the extent that you 480 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: were over the long holiday weekend. Doesn't know anything about Donetsk, 481 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: but they see Joe Biden up there on TVs talking 482 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: about something that you know, a lot of this has 483 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: to do with communication, with messaging. How does that offset 484 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: rising energy prices in the wake of this kind of move? 485 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: You know, I think interestingly, listening to the President's statement today, 486 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: he's got to sort of untangle himself from this debate 487 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: that's gone on between the progressive left on the real 488 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: need to do things like he did when he first 489 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: came in of canceling the Keystone Pipeline and the need 490 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: to deal with inflation and energy prices. So he's going 491 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: to have to take steps to show the American public, 492 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: as he said today, he would that we have an 493 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: interest in the actions he has taken with the sanctions 494 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: Visa VI Russia. But about the same token, he's gonna 495 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: work hard to ensure that we are not impacted with 496 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: these you know, increasing energy prices and gas prices, and 497 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: that might be some really uncomfortable conversations about things like, 498 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, dealing with Sarah Bloom Raskin's nomination, for instance, 499 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: is one thing we hear might be things like dealing 500 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: with the leasing on federal public lands, renewing the Keystone 501 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: Pipeline or approving it. Those kinds of conversations he hasn't 502 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: been prone to have. He may have to have now 503 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: to show that he's taking steps to deal with this. 504 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: You know, you cannot have prices on gas seven dollars 505 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: a gallon in the United States. It's upsene. Well, let's 506 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: talk about it. You just went there, and that is 507 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court nominee. We're not getting one today. The 508 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: White House has made clear, but a spokesman did issue 509 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: a statement saying that the President continues to evaluate eminently 510 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: qualified individuals in the mode of justice. Brier. Uh, We're 511 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: not sure still exactly if there have been interviews. We're 512 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: not sure exactly what this process has included board, but 513 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: we do know that we are going to get an 514 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: announcement this month. The one line in this statement that 515 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: seemed important he looks forward to announcing a nominee this month. 516 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: How do you work that knowing that you have a 517 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: State of the Union one week from tonight. What what's 518 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: the rollout that works in the middle of all this madness. Yeah, 519 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: if I were the president, I would roll that out 520 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: right into the State of the Union. He's already tipped 521 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: a ten a little bit in terms of saying, hey, 522 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: this is gonna be a positive State of the Union. 523 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: He's promised Democrats that he will really paint a story 524 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: that is positive for them going into the mid terms. 525 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: And I think because the President knowing he was going 526 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: to nominate a black woman, I think a lot of 527 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: that vetting process has been long done, so I think 528 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: they're further along in this process than they might be 529 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: indicating to the public. But I think for the President 530 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: UH doing that rolling into the State of the Union, 531 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: I think, what's that a really fascinating What does that mean? 532 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: Like on Monday? Or do it now and give it 533 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: a few days to breathe How do you roll in 534 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: the best the best way possible? You know, I like 535 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: it the day before rolling in and and give him 536 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: an opportunity to tell that story. You'll have a nominee 537 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: that is going to be very smart. And all of 538 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: these in kind of that short list are all people 539 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: who have had some bipartisans support in their nominations to 540 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: other positions that they've been holding. So there will be 541 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: enough to say, look, this is bipartisan, this is good 542 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: for the country. UH. And this is part of my 543 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: vision because I think what the President has to do 544 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: in the State of the Union is he has to 545 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: paint a vision of this is where we're going to 546 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: trains leaving the station, and you all ought to get 547 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: on board. It's going to have to be a very 548 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: positive upbeat Joe Biden in the State of the Union, 549 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: I think having that Supreme Court nominee in the building, 550 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: in the gallery, I mean, just been announced, would be 551 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: a good way to frame that. So you've got this 552 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: right down, to put your point up to the first 553 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: lady's box, the whole thing. There's the nominee, right, that's right? Okay, Genie, 554 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: what do you make of this timing? Though? It's just unfortunate. 555 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: You almost feel like the President might want to buy 556 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: himself a couple of weeks. Here. We're doing this in 557 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: the throes of the invasion of Ukraine, the new Cold War, 558 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it. Conversations day long about sanctions, 559 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: dealing with our allies, and of course the writing of 560 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: a State of the Union address? Or or is this 561 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: good timing because it changes the subject? February is such 562 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: a short month for all of us, and especially Joe Biden. 563 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: I mean, he promised to get this out, this nomination 564 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: out by the end of February. I think he's got 565 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, he's committed to that timeline. I think he 566 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: should see it through. I agree with Boyd. I think 567 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: Monday makes sense. You know, we've talked about this. I 568 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: disagree about having the nominee in the building at that 569 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: point during this speech, I think the politicization of the 570 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: Supreme Court has gone. That's because the other justices are there, right, Jennie, 571 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: was your point? Well that that and and also I 572 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: do think you nominate her, and you put her out 573 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: there in terms of all her wonderful qualities, and you 574 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: let that sort of rest. I think bringing her into 575 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: the building for me as a bridge too far. But 576 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: I hear a lot of people talking about that. He's 577 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 1: got great names there. But again, I think it's going 578 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: to be really, really tough for him to go in 579 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: the midst of this foreign policy crisis and present as 580 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: positive a message as he otherwise might have wanted to do. 581 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 1: I think it's going to have to be a bit sober. 582 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: We all know what's going on. We're paying the gas prices, 583 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: we're going to the grocery store, We're seeing these crises. 584 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: I think he can lay to vision. But I think 585 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: he's also got to meet the American public where they 586 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: are masked, unmasked in the midst of crises. I think 587 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: he's got to be honest about that. Actually, you just 588 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: brought up a good a good boy. Does the president 589 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: wear a mask coming all the way down the aisle 590 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: until he's in the rostroom. Is it a year too 591 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: late for that. It might be a year too late 592 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: for that, but my guess is he probably will do that. 593 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: And then I think I'm with Jennie in terms of 594 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: this shouldn't be a Pollyanna, you know, rose colored glasses 595 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: kind of speech. But I do think it has to 596 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: be a call to the American people, has to be 597 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,239 Speaker 1: a cause for for confidence kind of speech and doing that, 598 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: And of course the politicization of the Court is really 599 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: the members in that chamber's fault. The reason these nominees 600 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: are so political is because Congress continues to fail to 601 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: do its job, and it advocate authority to the executive branch, 602 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: which gladly uses it. Uh and then everything ends up 603 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: in the court. Uh. So I've been doing an interesting 604 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: thing for over twenty years now. I have actually written 605 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: a State of the Union every year, regardless of who 606 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: is in office. But I think this is one for 607 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: the president, that this is a cause for confidence moment 608 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: where he can be both sober and serious, as Genie 609 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: has pointed out, and he also has to invite the 610 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: American the American people will do hard things. He needs 611 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: to invite them to be part of a story that 612 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: is a next chapter for the country. I want you 613 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: to send me your State of the Union. Boyd, I'm 614 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: not kidding. I'm serious, Genie, if you were up there 615 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 1: writing the State of the Union for Joe Biden. The 616 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: state of the Union is it is the challenge of 617 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: the century, autocracy versus democracy. We've got to make democracy 618 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 1: work and that entails everything from build back better, passing legislation, 619 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: everything you've been talking about today. Is it strong? Is 620 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: the state of the Union strong? The State of the 621 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: Union is going to be stronger under Joe Biden. That's 622 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: the message he's got to put out there. And I'm 623 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: with you. Boyd. Wow, I feel badly. I've never written 624 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: a State of the Union, but I'm going to start. 625 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: This is an exercise for the whole class. That's right. 626 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,719 Speaker 1: I'm adopting this. What a great conversation with Boyd Mathison, 627 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzano. Many thanks to both of you. Boyd, don't 628 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,919 Speaker 1: be a stranger here on the panel. It's one week 629 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: from tonight, Genie, you'll be there. I will too, special 630 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 1: coverage State of the Union. I know there's a mass 631 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: mandate in the House I just thought, you know, if 632 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: he's the one guy in the chamber, we'll see. February 633 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: is Black History Month. We want to hear from Bloomberg's 634 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: Rnitaya on this day in Black history. In DJ Jazzy 635 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: Jeff and the Fresh Prince when the first Rap Grammy 636 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: for the crossover hit, but the duo also known as 637 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: Jeff Towns and Will Smith were not there to pick 638 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: up their award When it was decided that the Soul 639 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: Rap Award would be announced during the non televised portion 640 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: of the Grammys. The hip hop world boycotted Smith at 641 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: the time called the idea of an afternoon award face. 642 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: While there were critics supporters of the boycott's thought, the 643 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 1: stance helped the duo cement what would become decades of 644 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: success in music, television, and film. That's today in Black History. 645 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: I'm Ranita Young, Bloomberg Radio. Many thanks, Ranita, as we 646 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: celebrate each day this month's significant moments in US black history. 647 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: Ranita will be back with us tomorrow. We'll be back 648 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,280 Speaker 1: with the panel as well, on another round the Fastest 649 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: Hour in Politics. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg