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Speaker 11: Hey, Daniel, what are we talking about today?

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Speaker 1: On the episode, we are talking about avoid.

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Speaker 11: As in you're gonna avoid my questions?

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Speaker 1: No voids as in vast empty spaces.

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Speaker 11: Is there a scientist that discovered them? And if so,

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Speaker 11: is it kind of a scam because you just discovered nothing.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to get famous for discuss for nothing. That's

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Speaker 1: basically what I've done my whole career.

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Speaker 11: Same here, same here.

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Speaker 1: For that you got the no Prize instead of the

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Speaker 1: Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 11: Oh, you don't get any bells and whistles, so you

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Speaker 11: do get the Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 1: I think I want to avoid myself with these jokes.

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Speaker 11: Oh avoid. Hi am Jorge mccartoonez, an author of Oliver's

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Speaker 11: Great Big Universe.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I got into this business to

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Speaker 1: make radical, universe changing discoveries. But I haven't made any.

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Speaker 11: The whole reason we're here, it has been all for nothing.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, research has no guarantees. You could go

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Speaker 1: out there into the vast plane of undiscovered territory and

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Speaker 1: find all sorts of incredible stuff or just nothing. We

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Speaker 1: have no promises from nature.

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Speaker 11: Well, Daniel, you sound a little defeated. Did you have

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Speaker 11: a lot of years ahead of you in your career?

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not defeated. I rolled the dice and I

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Speaker 1: knew there were risks, and you know, physics is a

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Speaker 1: lot of fun along the way even if you don't

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Speaker 1: make a big discovery.

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Speaker 11: But don't you have like at least twenty thirty years

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Speaker 11: of work still or are you just planning to coast

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Speaker 11: the rest of the way.

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Speaker 1: On adviceive counsel. I'm going to not answer that question.

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Speaker 11: You're like, it's called being emeritus.

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Speaker 1: I'm rapidly approaching emeritus.

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Speaker 11: Well, whether you're emeritus or active, Welcome to our podcast,

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Speaker 11: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: In which we guide you through all the incredible mind

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Speaker 1: shattering discoveries of the last few hundred years that have

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Speaker 1: revealed a universe that's weird, that's bizarre, that's strange, and

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Speaker 1: yet somehow maybe understandable, And we also try to guide

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Speaker 1: you through potential discoveries in the next few years, in

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Speaker 1: the next decades, may be made by me or my team,

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Speaker 1: or by some of the listeners to this podcast or

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Speaker 1: their great great grandchildren. Whenever those discoveries come, we want

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Speaker 1: you to be prepared for them by understanding what we

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Speaker 1: do and don't know about the universe.

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Speaker 11: That's right, because it is an incredibly huge and amazing

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Speaker 11: universe out there, full of incredible phenomenon, astounding events, and

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Speaker 11: also a whole lot of mouthing.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, the universe really is something, even if that something

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Speaker 1: is often nothing. But there's lots of mysteries remaining about

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Speaker 1: the nature of the universe. As much as we've discovered

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Speaker 1: in the last one hundred years, about how big the

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Speaker 1: universe is, about how it's expanding, about how that expansion

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Speaker 1: is accelerating, about how galaxies swirl around invisible dark matter,

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Speaker 1: there's still a lot of pieces that don't fit together,

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Speaker 1: which tells us probably the next few decades or few

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Speaker 1: hundred years will reveal even more mind blowing discoveries about

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Speaker 1: the nature of our cosmos.

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Speaker 12: Yeah.

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Speaker 11: The amazing thing about this universe and about science is

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Speaker 11: that all the pieces are out there for us to see,

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Speaker 11: for us to discover, for us to observe, and for someone,

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Speaker 11: maybe you, maybe us, to put it all together and

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Speaker 11: make sense of this amazing cosmos. Oh wait, wait, sorry, sorry,

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Speaker 11: not Daniel, he's already given up.

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Speaker 1: Hey, you know, if it falls to my lap, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying no.

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Speaker 11: But yeah, well, it's not like you just throw it

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Speaker 11: in the trash.

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Speaker 1: You know. The universe is like a giant mystery novel.

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Speaker 1: Often all of the clues are out there staring us

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Speaker 1: in the face. It just requires the insight, that moment

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Speaker 1: of clarity to see how it all fits together into

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Speaker 1: one coherent story. And currently we're struggling a little bit

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Speaker 1: to understand all of those clues to tell a story

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Speaker 1: that makes sense to us and that holds together mathematically.

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Speaker 1: And it could be that some elements of our current

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Speaker 1: story are drastically wrong. We've certainly done that lots of

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Speaker 1: times in history, gone down the wrong path for decades

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Speaker 1: or even centuries before having to backtrack and come up

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Speaker 1: with a completely new, radical interpretation of how the universe works.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, leaving all those other scientists to have discovered nothing.

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Speaker 11: But all the clues are out there, but one of

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Speaker 11: the problems is that they're really far away. That's because

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Speaker 11: the universe is full of nothing, a lot of big

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Speaker 11: empty void in spaces that are preventing us from reaching

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Speaker 11: and touching some of the important clues that are out there.

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Speaker 11: But there is maybe the idea that some of these

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Speaker 11: huge voids of nothingness could maybe hold the answer to

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Speaker 11: one of the biggest questions in the universe.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Maybe the biggest question in modern science today

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Speaker 1: is what is driving the expansion of the universe? Why

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Speaker 1: is it going faster and faster every year. We have

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Speaker 1: a placeholder idea we call dark energy, but as you'll hear,

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Speaker 1: it's not even really a single coherent concept and we

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Speaker 1: might need completely new explanations for it.

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Speaker 11: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the question

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Speaker 11: could a huge void cost the illusion of dark energy?

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Speaker 11: So the wait, what are you saying, Daniel that dark

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Speaker 11: energy is not something? And in fact it might be nothing.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't it be a huge dramatic plot twist. If the

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Speaker 1: answer the biggest question in science was nothing.

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Speaker 11: I feel like we can already preview that, right, Like

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Speaker 11: what came before the universe? Nothing? What's going to happen

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Speaker 11: after the universe? Nothing? We're just to blip in the

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Speaker 11: nothing is.

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Speaker 1: I think the answer to both of those questions is

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Speaker 1: actually we don't know or we have no idea, which

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Speaker 1: is a little bit different from nothing. And you know, philosophically,

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Speaker 1: nothing is a complicated concept, like what does it even mean? Right?

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Speaker 1: We've talked on the podcast about how space is never

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Speaker 1: really empty and all of it has quantum fields and

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Speaker 1: it So what does nothing even really mean? It's actually

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Speaker 1: quite a deep philosophical question.

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Speaker 11: It is very tricky.

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Speaker 12: Yeah.

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Speaker 11: For example, I have a doctorate in philosophy, but I

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Speaker 11: know nothing about philosophy.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying you know nothing. Wow, you're an expert

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Speaker 1: in nothing.

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Speaker 11: Well, I guess that's something.

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Speaker 1: I would say. I'm no expert in nothing. Nothing is

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Speaker 1: actually quite complex.

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Speaker 11: I lost track of the negative, is there?

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Speaker 13: No?

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Speaker 11: You didn't No, I didn't No, I didn't not know

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Speaker 11: nothing about something?

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Speaker 1: There you go. Well, let's check in with the listeners

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Speaker 1: to see if they don't not know nothing about nothing?

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Speaker 13: Yea.

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Speaker 11: As usual, Daniel went out there to ask people if

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Speaker 11: they think maybe a huge void could be causing what

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Speaker 11: we see as dark energy.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much to everybody who sent in their answers.

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear your voice on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's right, I'm talking to you. You've been listening for years,

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Speaker 1: but never chimed in. Today's the day. Write to me

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Speaker 1: two questions at Danielanjorge dot com.

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Speaker 11: So think about it for a second. Do you think

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Speaker 11: dark energy could be explained by a huge amount of nothingness.

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Speaker 11: Here's what people had to say.

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Speaker 10: I don't think so. Even without the accelerated expansion of

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Speaker 10: the universe, it's still possible to have huge voids in space.

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Speaker 10: Perhaps if we were able to detect that a huge

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Speaker 10: void wasn't there before, we might be able to use

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Speaker 10: that as evidence towards the cosmological constant, but I think

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Speaker 10: that would take a long time.

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Speaker 13: Perhaps the void is filled with dark energy which we

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Speaker 13: cannot yet detect, So perhaps these areas could be responsible

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Speaker 13: for the accelerated expansion rate, if only we could learn

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Speaker 13: what dark energy truly is.

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Speaker 14: I'm going to assume in your definition of space. You

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Speaker 14: ascribe to quantum field theory and avoid in space would

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Speaker 14: be an area where the fields from all the fundamental

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Speaker 14: particles are somehow blocked from this area. One could posit

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Speaker 14: that some of these fields might feel a sort of

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Speaker 14: pressure to fill the void, causing an expansion. So sure,

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Speaker 14: I'll say it could.

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Speaker 15: Aha dark energy explained. Sure it could be space expanding

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Speaker 15: into a void. But then where is that void, what

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Speaker 15: is that void made out of and how is it

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Speaker 15: expanding into it? And what does that even mean? I

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Speaker 15: don't know about this one.

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Speaker 1: I'm confused by that comment. What's the difference between a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of nothingness and a small amount of nothingness?

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Speaker 1: If they're all nothing, it's like ten times zero versus

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Speaker 1: one time zero.

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Speaker 11: I think the difference is a nothing.

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Speaker 1: Nice. Well, I like these listeners answer some really well

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Speaker 1: informed thoughts here.

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Speaker 11: You seem surprised, Daniel, No, I'm impressed as usual, had

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Speaker 11: you given up on our listeners as well.

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Speaker 1: I think your reaction is based on nothing. I have

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Speaker 1: nothing but respect for these listeners, their efforts to understand

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Speaker 1: the universe, their willingness to contribute. I'm in awe.

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Speaker 11: Well, they do have some interesting answers here, And it's

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Speaker 11: kind of an interesting question that maybe the biggest part

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Speaker 11: of what we see in the universe, ninety five percent

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Speaker 11: of all the mass and energy in the universe, maybe

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Speaker 11: is not really something or mass or energy. Maybe it's

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Speaker 11: just something that can be easily explained with nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. In order to explain this accelerating expansion

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Speaker 1: of the universe, we've had to add into our equations

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Speaker 1: something very weird, very awkward, something we really struggle with.

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Speaker 1: And so people have been working for a long time

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Speaker 1: to find alternative explanations, sort of more prosaic ideas that

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Speaker 1: would explain the strange things we see out there in

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Speaker 1: the universe.

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Speaker 11: My question, Daniel, is why didn't we think of this before?

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Speaker 11: I mean, you see something mysterious, shouldn't the first thing

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Speaker 11: you ask be maybe it's nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. This particular idea that we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about today is uncomfortable in other ways

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Speaker 1: for scientists. It violates some like philosophical principles that they

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Speaker 1: really hope the universe respects, and that's why it's a

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Speaker 1: little bit weird and a little bit uncomfortable to consider.

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Speaker 1: But hey, sometimes when the universe confronts you with data.

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Speaker 1: You just got to accept it.

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Speaker 11: I mean, after like twenty thirty years of trying to

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Speaker 11: explain it in other ways.

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Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 11: Just because it makes you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: I like that the universe makes us uncomfortable. I like

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Speaker 1: when we go what it doesn't make any sense at all?

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Speaker 1: How could the universe be that way? Those the moments

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Speaker 1: we really learn something, when we really have to confront

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Speaker 1: some fundamental assumption that is probably wrong.

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Speaker 11: Right right, you like it, but only if you're sitting

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Speaker 11: comfortably in your couch, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Let me get comfortable before you make me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, let's draw online here. I want to be physically

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Speaker 11: comfortable but intellectually uncomfortable. Is that what you're saying?

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Speaker 1: Yes, serve me some chocolate while you tell me the

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Speaker 1: results of this study. Yes, absolutely, a little bit of

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Speaker 1: sugar makes the medicine.

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Speaker 11: Go down, right, right, you've given up even getting up

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Speaker 11: up for your couch. But anyways, Daniel, for those of

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Speaker 11: us who are sitting in our couches, wait to hear

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Speaker 11: the answer. What don't you start us with the basics?

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Speaker 11: What is this thing that we call dark energy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the thing that we're struggling to explain is

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Speaker 1: something we call dark energy. But dark energy is not

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Speaker 1: really like a theory as much as a description of

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Speaker 1: something we observe in the universe for which we don't

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Speaker 1: have a great explanation, and that's the fact that the

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Speaker 1: universe is expanding, and it's not just expanding the same

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Speaker 1: rate every year. It's expanding at an accelerated rate. It

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Speaker 1: seems like the distances between clusters of galaxies is increasing,

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Speaker 1: so that's expansion, but it's increasing faster and faster every year.

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Speaker 1: This is something we discovered about twenty five years ago now,

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Speaker 1: when we first learned how to figure out how far

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Speaker 1: away things are in the universe, and it was really

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Speaker 1: a shocker. You know, people before that were wondering how

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Speaker 1: quickly the expansion of the universe was slowing down. That

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Speaker 1: was the big question in science because you have the

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Speaker 1: universe expanding when it's very very young, but then it's

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Speaker 1: filled with matter. There's all this heavy stuff in the universe,

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Speaker 1: galaxies and black holes and whatever that tends to pull

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Speaker 1: stuff back together, and so people were wondering, hey, is

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Speaker 1: there enough gravity to pull stuff back together to make

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Speaker 1: like a reverse big bang like a big crunch, or

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Speaker 1: they're not enough and it's just going to gradually slow

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Speaker 1: down for a long time to keep drifting apart. And

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Speaker 1: when they went out to measure it, they discovered, shocker,

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Speaker 1: neither of those were true. The universe preferred secret answer, see,

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Speaker 1: which is that things are getting further apart faster and faster.

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Speaker 1: So dark energy is sort of like our placeholder name

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Speaker 1: to explain how that might be happening.

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Speaker 11: So, I think we've known that the universe is expanding

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Speaker 11: for about one hundred years, right, But you're saying it's

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Speaker 11: only recently we figured out it's accelerating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to go further back into history,

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Speaker 1: around the time that Einstein was developing the theory of relativity,

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Speaker 1: we thought the universe was static. We thought that there

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Speaker 1: was just like our galaxy hanging out there in empty

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Speaker 1: space and that was it. Then Edwin Hubble and Henrietta

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Speaker 1: Levitt developed this way to measure the distance to things

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Speaker 1: in the sky to tell how far away they were,

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Speaker 1: And what they discovered is that some smudges we saw

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Speaker 1: in the sky that we thought were just like clouds

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Speaker 1: of gas in our galaxy were actually much further away.

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Speaker 1: There were further than any of the stars in the sky.

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Speaker 1: There were actually other galaxies. And on top of that,

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Speaker 1: those galaxies were moving away from us. So we discovered

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Speaker 1: that the universe was not only just our galaxy, it

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Speaker 1: was filled with galaxies, and that the universe was expanding.

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Speaker 1: Everything was running away from us. That was about one

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Speaker 1: hundred years ago.

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Speaker 11: And how do we know that we're moving away from

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Speaker 11: us from the red shifting the Doppler effect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. You can look at the light from those

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Speaker 1: galaxies and you can see how it's frequency shifted things

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Speaker 1: that are moving away from us. As you said, the

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Speaker 1: Doppler effect, The light from those things is shifted in frequency,

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Speaker 1: and you can tell because we have an idea for

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Speaker 1: what frequency of light should be emitted by galaxies to

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Speaker 1: have these particular fingerprints, and so when they're shifted over

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Speaker 1: twenty nanometers or one hundred nanimeters or whatever in wavelength,

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Speaker 1: then we can tell. And that we use that to

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Speaker 1: measure the velocity.

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Speaker 11: And so back then, did we think or measure that

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Speaker 11: everything was moving away from us at the same speed

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Speaker 11: or we just didn't know enough to know at what

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Speaker 11: rate things were moving away from us.

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Speaker 1: Back then, Hubble's discovery allowed us to measure the distance

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Speaker 1: to other galaxies, but sort of only in us nearby sphere.

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Speaker 1: Hubble couldn't tell that the universe was expanding and accelerating

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Speaker 1: because he couldn't measure the distance to far away enough stuff.

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Speaker 1: He and Henriette Levitt developed this technique to measure the

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Speaker 1: distance to stuff looking at these particular variable stars called sephids,

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Speaker 1: but you had to be able to see them, and

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Speaker 1: if galaxies were far enough away, then you couldn't see

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Speaker 1: those stars in the galaxies, so he could sort of

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Speaker 1: only see a little bubble. But about twenty five years

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Speaker 1: ago we developed a new technique that allowed us to

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Speaker 1: see much further and to measure the distance much further,

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Speaker 1: and so then we could see the change over time

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Speaker 1: as we look back into the history of the universe,

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Speaker 1: and we noticed this effect. So Hubble couldn't see it

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Speaker 1: because he didn't have enough data. He didn't have a

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Speaker 1: long enough lever arm in history to see things changing.

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Speaker 11: It was being able to tell how far away things

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Speaker 11: were and then measuring on top of that their velocity

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Speaker 11: that let us figure out that things we're accelerating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It was the development of this technique using

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Speaker 1: type onea supernova supernova of course the implosion of stars

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Speaker 1: leading to an extraordinarily bright explosion, so bright that they

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Speaker 1: outshine the galaxies they're in. And so you can measure

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Speaker 1: these things for very very distant galaxies and understanding the

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Speaker 1: physics of it and understanding how bright they are at

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Speaker 1: their source without knowing how far away they are. Let's

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Speaker 1: you figure out how far away they are by looking

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Speaker 1: at how bright they are here on Earth, because things

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Speaker 1: here are dimmer when they arrive, so that'll lets you

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Speaker 1: know how far away things are. And that's absolutely crucial

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Speaker 1: because knowing how far away something is tells you when

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Speaker 1: the light left it right. And so as we look

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Speaker 1: further into space, we're looking further back in time. So

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Speaker 1: that's how we can see the history of the expansion

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Speaker 1: of the universe. We can see how fast is stuff

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Speaker 1: moving away from us that's close by i e. Recent history,

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Speaker 1: and then we can ask how fast it was stuff

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Speaker 1: moving away from us earlier in the universe by looking

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Speaker 1: further away. So this is absolutely crucial to understanding how

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Speaker 1: dark energy works and also how it might be wrong.

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Speaker 1: What we see is that the expansion is faster for

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Speaker 1: things that are closer to us, and we interpret that

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Speaker 1: to mean the expansion is speeding up. So deeper into space,

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Speaker 1: the expansion looks slower. Closer to us, the expansion looks faster.

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Speaker 1: That's what leads us to conclude that the expansion is accelerating.

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Speaker 11: So things we can tell are really far away don't

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Speaker 11: have as much of a red shift as the things

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Speaker 11: that we can see that are closer to us.

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Speaker 1: They're further away, so they're actual distance. The red shift

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Speaker 1: is larger, but hasn't accumulated over time, right, And so

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Speaker 1: it's the acceleration is like the slope of that velocity curve.

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Speaker 1: So those things are very far away, they are very

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Speaker 1: very red shifted, but the change in that slope we

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Speaker 1: can see over time as we look at these things

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Speaker 1: from further away to closer in.

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Speaker 11: All right, So then that tells us that the universe

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Speaker 11: is expanding more and more rapidly. And we have a

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Speaker 11: name for that, which is dark energy, or at least

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Speaker 11: the thing that might be causing this acceleration. That's what

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Speaker 11: we call dark energy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we call it dark energy. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion out there about what we

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Speaker 1: do and don't know. And I think this is really

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Speaker 1: interesting insight into sort of the way physics works. Like

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Speaker 1: we often begin thinking about an idea before we have

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Speaker 1: it all worked out. We just sort of like start

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Speaker 1: fleshing it out, the way you might like design your house,

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Speaker 1: starting from what you wanted to look on the outside

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Speaker 1: before you figured it out, like, Hey, what are all

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Speaker 1: the structural supports? And can I really have pipes over here?

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Speaker 1: And is it possible to have a shower on the

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Speaker 1: roof or whatever. You know, you haven't always figured out

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Speaker 1: the details, some of which might be absolutely essential. And

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Speaker 1: so if you look at the beginning days of.

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Speaker 11: The development, I know every house you'd have a shower

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Speaker 11: on the roof.

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Speaker 1: My wife is a big fan of an outside shower.

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Speaker 1: She's always wanted to put one in. So I'm always suggesting,

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Speaker 1: let's put it on the roof. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: why that's not a popular idea. But anyway, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the history of the development of big ideas

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Speaker 1: and physics, this is how it works. And so we've

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Speaker 1: done that with dark energy. We're like, wow, this is weird.

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Speaker 1: How do we explain this? Okay, first, let's give it

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Speaker 1: a cool name. Now, let's start to think about how

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Speaker 1: it might be possible, and we definitely don't have all

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Speaker 1: the details worked out. We have some conception of how

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Speaker 1: in general relativity you might generate this effect, we definitely

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Speaker 1: don't have all the pieces together.

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Speaker 11: And we say that it's ninety five percent of the energy, mass,

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Speaker 11: and energy of the whole universe, because that's how much

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Speaker 11: energy you need to explain something that's accelerating the entire

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Speaker 11: observable universe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something like seventy percent. Dark matter and dark

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Speaker 1: energy together make ninety five percent, but the dark energy

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Speaker 1: portion is seventy percent. Yeah, and you're exactly right. And

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Speaker 1: the way we get that seventy percent is a few

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Speaker 1: different ways. But one way is to say, all right,

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Speaker 1: how in general relativity could you cause the universe to expand?

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Speaker 1: Because usually gravity causes things to come together. Right, you

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Speaker 1: have two masses in space, they curve space, they tend

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Speaker 1: to move together. But general relativity is much more complex

442
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 1: than Newtonian gravity includes all sorts of complicated terms and

443
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: effects in there. And one of the possible effects in

444
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: general relativity is if you have a field in space,

445
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 1: the electromagnetic field or the weak field or the electron field.

446
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: We know space is filled with these fields. But if

447
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: these fields have a lot of potential energy, meaning they

448
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: have like stored energy inside of them because of their

449
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,680
Speaker 1: configuration the way the Higgs field does. For example, having

450
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: a lot of potential energy in space will generate this expansion,

451
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: just like part of the mathematics of general relativity, you

452
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: have a negative sign in front of this term in

453
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: the equations, and so it generates expansion of space. So

454
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: if you had a field with a lot of potential energy,

455
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: it would generate the expansion. So we calculate how much

456
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: potential energy do you need, and that comes out to

457
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,640
Speaker 1: be about seventy percent of the energy in the universe.

458
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 11: So this whole idea that dark energy is seventy percent

459
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 11: of the universe comes from the assumption, if I'm understanding right,

460
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 11: the assumption that what's causing the acceleration of the universe

461
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 11: is something kind of baked into space itself.

462
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And there's some supporting evidence for it, and

463
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: there's also a bunch of stuff that doesn't work about it.

464
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 1: Like one supporting piece of evidence is that we can

465
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 1: go out and measure all of the energy in the

466
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: universe because it affects the overall curvature of the universe, like,

467
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: is the universe overall flat or curve negatively or curved positively.

468
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: That depends very sensitively on how much energy is there

469
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: in the universe. And we go out and we measure that,

470
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: and then we measure the energy out there in the

471
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: universe to be exactly what we need to make it

472
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: flat and to add up very nicely with this seventy

473
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: percent number. So the dark matter, the normal matter, and

474
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 1: the dark energy in the universe all adds up perfectly

475
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: to make the universe flat, which is what we observe.

476
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:27,119
Speaker 1: That's very cool.

477
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 11: Oh interesting, All right, well, let's get into the things

478
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 11: that don't work about dark energy and why. Maybe nothingness

479
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 11: could be the key to understanding how it all works.

480
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 11: So let's dig into that. But first let's take a

481
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 11: quick break.

482
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 16: AI might be the most important new computer technology ever.

483
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485
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498
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Speaker 16: That's Oracle dot com slash Strategic, Oracle dot com slash Strategic.

499
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Speaker 17: I'm Buzsnight and I'm the host of the Taken a

500
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 17: Walk podcast music History on Foot John Oates.

501
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 18: Great songs endured, and I'm very proud and happy to

502
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Speaker 18: know that i was part of something that will endure.

503
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 17: The podcast is an audio diary of insightful conversation with

504
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Speaker 17: musicians and the inside stories behind their music.

505
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 19: Russ Kunkle, the basic connection that I had with someone

506
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 19: that was great coming out of the whiskey was David Crosby.

507
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 19: David I met David and Steven and Graham kind of

508
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 19: around the same time, basically through my wife Leah, who

509
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 19: is Cass Elliott's sister.

510
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 17: The message of the podcast is simple, honest conversation with

511
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 17: musicians about the music they create. Mike Campbell of The Heartbreakers,

512
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 17: it is correct.

513
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 7: I rarely worked things out. I like to go off

514
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 7: the cup and try to grab things out of the

515
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 7: air while you're playing the song and try to catch

516
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 7: a little magic.

517
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 17: Listen to the Taken a Walk podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

518
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 17: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

519
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas, the host of a brand new

520
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: Black Effect original series, black Lit, the podcast for diving

521
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 2: deep into the rich world of black literature. I'm Jackie Thomas,

522
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 2: and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant

523
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 2: community of the terry enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating

524
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for

525
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 2: those who listen to audio books while commuting or reading errands,

526
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge

527
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: between the chapters, from thought provoking novels to powerful poetry,

528
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: We'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, We'll

529
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of

530
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 2: the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to

531
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: amplify the voices of black writers and to bring their

532
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 2: words to life. Listen to Black Lit on the iHeartRadio app,

533
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

534
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 6: I'm doctor Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcasts.

535
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 6: The US elections approach, it can feel like we're angrier

536
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 6: and more divided than ever, But in a new Copple

537
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 6: season of my podcast, I'll share with the science really

538
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 6: shows that were surprisingly more united than most people think.

539
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 8: We all know something is wrong in our culture and

540
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 8: our politics, and that we need to do better, and

541
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 8: that we can do better.

542
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 6: With the help of Stanford psychologist Jamiale Zaki.

543
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 16: It's really tragic.

544
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: If cynicism were appeal, it'd be a poison.

545
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 6: We'll see that our fellow humans, even those we disagree with,

546
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 6: are more generous than we assume.

547
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 20: My assumption, my feeling, my hunch is that a lot

548
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 20: of us are actually looking for a way to disagree

549
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 20: and still be in relationship with each other.

550
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 6: All that on the Happiness Lab Listen on the iHeartRadio app,

551
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 6: Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

552
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 12: We think of Franklin is the doddling dude flying a

553
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 12: kite and no rain. But those tweamens are the most

554
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 12: important scientific discoveries of the time.

555
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: I'm ev'ing right left.

556
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 21: Last season, we tackled the ingenuity of Elon Musk with

557
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 21: biographer Walter Isaacson. This time we're diving into the story

558
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 21: of Benjamin Franklin, another genius who's desperate to be dusted

559
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 21: off from history.

560
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 12: His media empire makes him the most successful self made

561
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 12: business person in America.

562
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 11: I mean, he was never.

563
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 12: Early to bed, an early to rise type person. He's

564
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 12: enormously famous. Women shut wearing their hair in what was

565
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 12: called the coiffor a la Franklin.

566
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: And who's more relevant now than ever.

567
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 12: The only other person who could have possibly been the

568
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 12: first president would have been Benjamin Franklin, but he's too

569
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 12: old and once Washington do it.

570
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 21: Listen to On Benjamin Franklin with Walter Isaacson on the

571
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 21: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

572
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 11: All right, we're talking about dark energy and giant voids

573
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 11: in the universe. And could those two things be related.

574
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 11: Could dark energy just be a whole bunch of h nothing.

575
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 11: Could it be explained by perhaps the absence of things

576
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 11: in space. So we talked a little bit about dark energy,

577
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 11: what it is, what we know about it. But Daniel,

578
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 11: there's something wrong with that picture of dark energy. What's

579
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:17,719
Speaker 11: wrong with it.

580
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: What's wrong with it is that we have no idea

581
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: where all this potential energy would be coming from. In

582
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 1: order to have the universe expand and accelerate at the

583
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: rate that it has been, we need space to be

584
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: filled with some kind of potential energy.

585
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 11: Well, here's a question like, does dark energy need to

586
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 11: be something that's like a field or baked into space,

587
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 11: or could it be some maybe hidden property of gravity

588
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 11: perhaps or electromagnetism, or is that the same thing.

589
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: It could definitely be something totally brand new, some new

590
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: kind of physics we've never seen before, or change in

591
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: general relativity. That's definitely possible, and there are people out

592
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: there working on other crazy ideas. But so the mainstream

593
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: effort is to say, like, well, can we incorporate this

594
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: into general relativity, because it's kind of interesting that general

595
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: relativity has this capacity already it's something that Einstein's relativity

596
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: can do expand space and accelerate that expansion. The problem

597
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: is that to make that happen, you need to fill

598
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: space with all of this energy. Either you say, look,

599
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: that's just the way it is. You just put a

600
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: number in there, and that's called the cosmological constant, and

601
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: you say, like, it's not explained, that's just the nature

602
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: of space. It just has this energy kind of unsatisfying,

603
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: or you find the source of that energy you say, oh,

604
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: look it's this particular quantum field that can do it.

605
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: And we look through our list of quantum fields we ask, well,

606
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: how much potential energy do they have? And one of

607
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: them has a lot of potential energy. The Higgs field

608
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: is filled with potential energy. Remember that most of the

609
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: fields in the universe like to relax down to zero.

610
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: They like to be in their lowest energy state. But

611
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: the Higgs field is really weird, has this wrinkle in it,

612
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: so it sort of gets stuck at high potential energy.

613
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: When the universe is cooling. The Higgs field doesn't collapse

614
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: down to zero the way the other ones do. It

615
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: has all this potential energy all right, So this is

616
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: really exciting right, dark energy needs some field filled with

617
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: potential energy to explain the accelerating expansion in the universe,

618
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: and over here we have a field filled with potential energy. Awesome.

619
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: So people sat down to do the calculations and say,

620
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: does the Higgs field have enough energy to explain the

621
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: accelerating expansion in the universe. The answer is no, and

622
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: it's not even close. The answer is off by ten

623
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 1: to the one hundred and twenty. So the fields we

624
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: have can definitely not explain the expansion of the universe

625
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: as we see it.

626
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 11: But I guess if it's not a field, if it's

627
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 11: something else, would it still account for seventy percent of

628
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 11: the universe or like, what are some of these other

629
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 11: things that could.

630
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: Be ooh not a field, man, That blows my mind.

631
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: Currently our theories of the universe are that everything's a field, right,

632
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: Like all the particles are ripples in fields, and all

633
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: the energy out there is stored in some kind of field.

634
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: So mostly people are developing like new kinds of fields.

635
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: Maybe there's some other kind of field, not the Higgs field,

636
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: something else out there in the universe that contains all

637
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: of this energy, and then you have to explain like

638
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: why we wouldn't have seen it and it has no

639
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: other effects that we could detect. For example, that's the

640
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: way a lot of people are going. Non field explanations

641
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: for the accelerating expansion in the universe. Those are pretty

642
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: far out of the mainstream, but you know, it could

643
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: be right. Physicists tend to work like within the framework

644
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: of the ideas we have. Doesn't mean that that's where

645
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: we're going to find the answer.

646
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 11: Or what if it's like a part of gravity itself

647
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 11: or general relativity, like maybe gravity gets it turns the

648
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 11: negative if you get really far away from something, would

649
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 11: that still be a field?

650
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: Technically, I don't think that's compatible with general relativity. So

651
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: in order to have that be the explanation, you have

652
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: to change general relativity. And the thing people like about

653
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: this dark energy framework is that you don't have to

654
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: change general relativity because it's been tested up and down

655
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: the wazoo and it really is accurate for huge distances

656
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: or huge distances yeah, I mean, it explains an enormous

657
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: amount about the structure of the universe as we see it,

658
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: and so changing general relativity is pretty uncomfortable, except in

659
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: places where it hasn't been tested like inside black holes

660
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: or the very very early universe, things we haven't been

661
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: able to observe yet, basically where quantum mechanics arises. So

662
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: it's difficult to make changes to general relativity without messing

663
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: up a lot of other stuff.

664
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 11: That would just be uncomfortable and also require a lot

665
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 11: of work.

666
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: And it could be the path too huge discoveries. But

667
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, the way physics works is, hey, let's try

668
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: the easiest thing first. And so there is this door

669
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: open in general relativity, like, let's see if we can

670
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: explain it using the framework we have, which requires discovering

671
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: this field that explains where all the energy is and

672
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: that we don't have an answer for.

673
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 11: So then that's the problem with our current theories about

674
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 11: dark energy is that you think it requires a field,

675
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 11: but we don't know what field it could be because

676
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 11: it needs to have more energy than anything we know about.

677
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the major problem, sort of the conceptual problem.

678
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: There are also a few smaller problems, experimental problems, like

679
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: our picture of the universe as being mostly dark energy

680
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: and a big chunk dark matter and a little bit

681
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: of baryonic matter and normal matter. It explains an enormous amount.

682
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: It explains how the universe started out filled with radiation

683
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: and then that radiation got diluted and it was matter dominated,

684
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: and it was expanding, but that expansion was slowing down.

685
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: But the expansion led to more dark energy, which then

686
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: accelerated the expansion, and the universe became dark energy dominated

687
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: like six billion years ago. It's an amazing, beautiful story

688
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: that explains an enormous amount, but it doesn't quite explain everything.

689
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: Like there's this discrepancy between our observation of how fast

690
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: the universe is expanding now and how fast it was

691
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: expanding the very early days. This is called the Hubble

692
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: tension because the Hubble constant is kind of a measure

693
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: of the expansion rate, and that's not something we can

694
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: really explain. We don't really understand how the expansion the

695
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: early universe connects for the expansion in the late times.

696
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: At first, it was very fuzzy measurements. We thought, all,

697
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: we'll figure it out. But as we make more and

698
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: more precise measurements, they don't really agree. So that might

699
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: require a tweak to this, or it might be a

700
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: crack that undermines the whole theory. So it's not like

701
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: it's a perfect description of everything we see, even if

702
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: you knew where this energy was coming from.

703
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 11: So then I guess what's the alternative if it's not

704
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 11: something like a field.

705
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: So one of the alternatives is to question one of

706
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: the basic assumptions of this whole picture of the universe

707
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about. We usually talk about the

708
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,720
Speaker 1: universe in terms of density, Like when we say seventy

709
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: percent or twenty five percent, we're saying, take a random

710
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: chunk of the universe, how much of that is dark

711
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: energy or how much of that is normal energy. When

712
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: you do that, you're kind of making an implicit assumption

713
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: that all chunks of the universe are about the same.

714
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: The stuff is spread out through the universe basically evenly,

715
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: like we know, it's not completely evenly. There's definitely clumpiness,

716
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: like we're a big clump in the universe. The Earth,

717
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: the Sun, the galaxy is a clump. But that if

718
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: you zoom out far enough, the universe is evenly spread

719
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: out on the giant scales. The universe is basically the

720
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: same everywhere. That's kind of a philosophical preference. They call

721
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 1: it the cosmological principle or Copernican principle. But one of

722
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: the ideas to explain the accelerating expansion of the universe

723
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: is to say, maybe it's not expanding in an accelerating way.

724
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,919
Speaker 1: Maybe it just looks like it is because we're stuck

725
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: at the center of a huge void where there's less

726
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 1: stuff in this bubble than outside of it, and that

727
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,879
Speaker 1: gives us the illusion that the universe's expansion is accelerating,

728
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: even if it isn't. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

729
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 11: Wait a minute, how does this even work? Is the

730
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 11: idea then that maybe outside of the observable universe there's

731
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 11: a whole bunch of nothingness for a while. Is that

732
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 11: kind of what the picture you're thinking about?

733
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: The idea is that the bubble we're living in, even

734
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: though it has galaxies and stars and whatever, is less

735
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: dense than the stuff outside some bubble.

736
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 11: But then wouldn't we be able to see those things

737
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 11: outside the bubble and tell if it's more or less dense.

738
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we can get into the observations and whether

739
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: this idea actually lines up with what we see in

740
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: the universe. But if this bubble exists, it'd be a

741
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: little tricky to see because we'd be looking really really

742
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: far out. Sort of three D map of the universe

743
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: is best for close by stuff, and it sort of

744
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: fades out a little bit as you get further out.

745
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 1: It's hard to make these big three D maps of

746
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: the universe. At this void, if it exists, would basically

747
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: describe everything we see so far. So it's sort of

748
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: suggesting that out there in the deep dark reaches of space,

749
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: where we haven't really mapped very well yet, galaxies might

750
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: be a lot denser than they are here. Then that

751
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: might be confusing us about the expansion of the universe.

752
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 11: Wait, I think you're saying that maybe you know the

753
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 11: galaxies we've seen to come to the conclusion that the

754
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 11: universe is expanding in an accelerated way. You know, we

755
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 11: use galaxies we've seen, but maybe those galaxies we seen

756
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 11: don't go all the way to the edge of the

757
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 11: observable universe. Is that what you're saying.

758
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: We've used those galaxies and they do go all the

759
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: way to the edge of the observable universe, but it

760
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: might be the things change as you go from here

761
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: to the edge of the observable universe, and that could

762
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: be confusing us about this accelerated expansion. The key concept is,

763
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: remember that we decided that the expansion the universe was

764
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: accelerating because we saw that changing as we look further

765
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: and further into space, right, and we decided that's because

766
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: things are changing over time. But what if things aren't

767
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: changing over time, they're just changing over space. Right. What

768
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: if the universe is different as you go further away

769
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: than it is here. What if the universe is denser

770
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: further away and then it is closer by, and that's

771
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: what's creating this effect. We see an effect in space,

772
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: and we're assuming that it means an effect over time.

773
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: But what if it's just an effect over space. What

774
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: if the universe is different further away.

775
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 11: I see what you're saying. I think you're saying that

776
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 11: some of those galaxies were using to measure the expansion

777
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 11: of the universe, maybe where they're not where we think

778
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 11: they are.

779
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: I'm saying that we see faster expansion close by and

780
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: slower expansion further away, right, And we interpret that to

781
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: mean that there was slower expansion earlier in the universe,

782
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: and there's faster expansion later in the universe. So the

783
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: expansion is accelerating. But what if the universe is just

784
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: denser further away and so it's not expanding as fast

785
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: because there's more gravity it's holding stuff together. And so

786
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: what if we're confusing nearby faster expansion for expansion increasing

787
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: more recently. Right what if it's not increasing more recently,

788
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 1: it's just we're in a bubble that's expanding faster. If

789
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 1: you go further away from us in the universe, things

790
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: are expanding more slowly because the universe is denser. There

791
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 1: there's more gravity to hold it together. So instead of saying, oh,

792
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 1: the universe was expanding slower further away, back further in time,

793
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: and it's expanding faster closer to us more recently, what

794
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: if it's not a function of time, it's just a

795
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: function of space because we're in this bubble that happens

796
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: to be under dense and so has faster expansion because

797
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: it's less stuff to hold it together.

798
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 11: I feel like my mind is a void right now.

799
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 1: Daniel. Yeah, if you have more stuff in the universe,

800
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: if these there's more galaxies, for example, then there's more

801
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: gravity to battle against this expansion. Stuff stays closer.

802
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 11: Together, so there is still an expansion of the un.

803
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 1: Yes, there would still be an expansion, but it wouldn't

804
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: be accelerating. It's just the expansion depends on how much

805
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: stuff you have around you, which makes perfect sense.

806
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 11: So you're saying that there is an expansion of the

807
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 11: universe that's still happening. Yeah, but you're saying, maybe what

808
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 11: if it's maybe even and not accelerating. Maybe it's just

809
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 11: a constant, steady expansion of the universe, which would still

810
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 11: be a mystery.

811
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: Though right now you can have the expansion of the

812
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: universe without any sort of like weird dark energy in

813
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: the universe.

814
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 11: Okay, so then we are assuming still a steady expansion.

815
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 11: But you're saying that maybe the acceilerit that expansion looks

816
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 11: faster around us, even though it's not. It just looks faster.

817
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: It is faster around us. It's just that it's faster

818
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: around us because there isn't as much stuff, not because

819
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: the expansion is changing over time. There's less stuff near us,

820
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: and so there's less stuff to hold stuff together, and

821
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: so that's why it's expanding faster closer than further away.

822
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 11: Oh, because you're saying that gravity somehow affects the expansion

823
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 11: of space.

824
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yes, gravity hold stuff together. If there was more

825
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: stuff in the universe, then things expand more solely because

826
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: gravity is pulling on them. Right.

827
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 11: Well, but space itself, it doesn't hold space together, or

828
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 11: does it. Is that what you're saying, that it somehow

829
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 11: holds space itself together?

830
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: Absolutely, The more stuff you have in the universe, the

831
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: slower things move apart from each other. Remember, we talk

832
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: about creating a new space, but really we're talking about

833
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: increasing the distance between galaxies, and that's all we can measure, right,

834
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: Space itself is not something where you can measure distances

835
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: relative to space. It's always distance is measured between objects.

836
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 11: The things are being held together because in the same

837
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 11: way that I'm being held together with the Earth or

838
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 11: are we talking about some you know, relativistic something something.

839
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: No, the first way, Yeah, the same way that you're

840
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: being held near the Earth.

841
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 11: Oh okay, but I always thought that, like I'm being

842
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 11: held to Earth, and so I'm not expanding away from

843
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 11: the Earth. But the space that we're both sitting in

844
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 11: is expanding.

845
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two effects happening there. Right. Gravity is holding

846
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: you together and dark energy is expanding that space. But

847
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: gravity wind because gravity is much more powerful. Over great distances,

848
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: gravity weakens, right, and you can't hold things together, so

849
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: dark energy takes over.

850
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 11: Right. But like right here on Earth, I'm sitting here

851
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 11: on Earth and being held together on Earth. I'm not

852
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 11: expanding away from the Earth, but sort of like somebody's

853
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,919
Speaker 11: moving the chair under me, or somebody's stretching the rug

854
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 11: under me, the space we're sitting in is expanding, isn't it.

855
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a helpful way to think about it, but

856
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: it can also be misleading, right, Like, really, what we're

857
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: saying there is if you deleted the Earth and replaced

858
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 1: it with like a point particle proton, for example, would

859
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: dark energy be increasing the space between you and that

860
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: point particle that proton? Yes, absolutely, because there is dark

861
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: energy everywhere. That's the point of that comparison. But these

862
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: are like two things happening in the equations at the

863
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: same time. The net effect, because gravity dominates, is that

864
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: you and the Earth stay close to each other. You

865
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: can't really separate them out and say they're both simultaneously happening.

866
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: It's like two force vectors that you add together. If

867
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: you have a huge amount of force on an object

868
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: from two directions, it adds up to zero force, right,

869
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: this net zero force. You can talk about what would

870
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: happen if you were removed one, or you could talk

871
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: about what happened if you remove the other, but you

872
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 1: can't really say that there's any force on that object

873
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: because they balance each other out in the same way.

874
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 1: Dark energy tends to push things apart and curvature tends

875
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: to pull things together. So you could talk about what

876
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: would happen if you only had one or the other,

877
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: but really what's happening to you is a combination of

878
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 1: the two.

879
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 11: All right. So then the idea is that maybe we're

880
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 11: wrong that the universe is expanding faster and faster. It's

881
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 11: just sort of looks like it because things are denser

882
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 11: out there, and so they're moving apart from each other less.

883
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So as we look further into the universe,

884
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: which is further back in time, we see less expansion.

885
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: But maybe that expansion isn't changing with time. Maybe it's

886
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: fixed with time, but it's happening less further away than

887
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 1: closer by because there's more stuff further away. Maybe we

888
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: happen to be in some huge bubble where the stuff

889
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: near us is under dance, this less stuff in our bubble,

890
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: and so things can expand further and further away because

891
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 1: there's less mass to sort of counteract that expansion.

892
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 11: I guess what's confusing me is that if it's denser

893
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 11: out there in the far reaches of space, things are

894
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 11: being held together there. But wouldn't I still see an acceleration,

895
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 11: or not an acceleration from relative to me.

896
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: An acceleration of the expansion.

897
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 11: Yeah, Like I always thought that the acceleration of the

898
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 11: expansion is because like the thing I see really far

899
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 11: away is moving away from me slower than the things

900
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 11: that are closer to me.

901
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right. But maybe the reason things are

902
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 1: moving away from you closer is because of an under density,

903
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: not because of a change in the expansion over time. Right,

904
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: maybe everything has the same expansion over time. The things

905
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: that are farther away have a smaller expansion because of

906
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: the conditions over there, not because of some change in

907
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 1: the universe over time.

908
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 13: Right.

909
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: We can only see this one slice of the universe

910
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: in space and time. We can look further back time.

911
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: You can see the universe really far away as it

912
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: was a long time ago, and we don't know what

913
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: is that part of the universe like now, And so

914
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: we see this one particular slice where we can see

915
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: close by stuff recently and far away stuff a long

916
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: time ago. So it's hard to tell the difference between

917
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: things that change over space and things that change over time.

918
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: And we see a change in that story, and we

919
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: interpret that as a change over time, but it could

920
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 1: be that it's the same over time. It's just changing over.

921
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 11: Space, meaning that we are measurements of the distance of

922
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 11: those things. How far away they are from us or

923
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 11: from each other is.

924
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: Wrong, how far away they are from us? Yeah. Imagine

925
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: you looked out into the universe and you saw that

926
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: aliens on nearby planets were all eating white chocolate. And

927
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: as you look deeper and deeper into the universe, you discovered, oh,

928
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: they're all eating dark chocolate. And you say, well, oh, well,

929
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: that's older information. The dark chocolate information has taken a

930
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: long time to get here, and so maybe what's happened

931
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 1: over time is that everybody switched from dark chocolate to

932
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: white chocolate. And that explains why my older observations from

933
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 1: distant galaxies the aliens are eating dark chocolate, and my

934
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: recent observations from nearby galaxies. The aliens are eating white chocolate.

935
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: And then another scientist goes, no, no, no, maybe they

936
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: just prefer dark chocolate out there in the deep reaches

937
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: of space, and we live in a white chocolate bubble

938
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: where everybody seems to eat white chocolate. Those two explanations

939
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: both work. One is a change over space, the other

940
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: is a change over time, and we can't tell the

941
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: difference because we have this one set of observations linked

942
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: in space and time.

943
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 11: I'm not sure adding flavor to the helping. So then

944
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 11: you're saying, like, maybe what's explaining dark energy is that

945
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 11: there's more stuff in the periphery of the universe. There's

946
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 11: more stuff in the perimeter of our vision mm hmmm,

947
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 11: or or of what we can see, yeah, exactly, but

948
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 11: still within the observable universe.

949
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: Still within the observable universe. Yes, of course, this is

950
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: a big idea, and if it's true, you have to

951
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 1: make sense of it and why we would be living

952
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: in the middle of this big void and what else

953
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: it would mean. And there's lots of ways we can

954
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: check this idea.

955
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 11: All right, Well, let's dig into how we're testing this idea.

956
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 11: Is it a stretch or is it a whole bunch

957
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 11: of nothing as well? So let's dig into that, but

958
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 11: first let's take another quick break.

959
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 17: I'm buzs Knight and I'm the host of the Taking

960
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 17: a Walk podcast Music History on Foot.

961
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 18: John Oates Great songs endured, and I'm very proud and

962
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 18: happy to know that i was part of something that

963
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 18: will endure.

964
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 17: The podcast is an audio diary of insightful conversations with

965
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 17: musicians and the inside stories behind their music.

966
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 19: Russ Kunkle, The basic connection that I had with someone

967
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 19: that was great coming out of the Whiskey was David Crosby.

968
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 19: David I met David and Steven and Graham kind of

969
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 19: around the same time, basically through my wife Leah, who

970
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 19: is Cass Elliott's sister.

971
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 17: The message of the podcast is simple, honest conversation with

972
00:47:54,560 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 17: musicians about the music they create. Mike Campbell of the Heartbreakers.

973
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 13: It is correct.

974
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 7: I rarely work things out. I like to go off

975
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 7: the cup and try to grab things out of the

976
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 7: air while you're playing the song and try to catch

977
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 7: a little magic.

978
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 17: Listen to the Taking a Walk Podcast on the iHeartRadio app,

979
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 17: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

980
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas, the host of a brand new

981
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 2: Black Effect original series, black Lit, the podcast for diving

982
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jackie Thomas,

983
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 2: and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant

984
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories.

985
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 2: Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who

986
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 2: listen to audio books while commuting or running errands. For

987
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: those who find themselves seeking solad, wisdom, and refuge. Between

988
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 2: the chapters, from thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, We'll

989
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: explore the stories that shape our culture. Together. We'll dissect

990
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,839
Speaker 2: classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the

991
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify

992
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 2: the voices of Black writers and to bring their words

993
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 2: to life. Listen to black Lit on the iHeartRadio app,

994
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

995
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 6: I'm doctor Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast.

996
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 6: Is the US elections approach It can feel like we're

997
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 6: angrier and more divided than every but in a new

998
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 6: copable season of my podcast, I'll share with the science

999
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 6: really shows that we're surprisingly more united than most people think.

1000
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 8: We all know something is wrong in our culture and

1001
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 8: our politics, and that we need to do better, and

1002
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 8: that we can do better.

1003
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 6: With the help of Stanford psychologist Jamiale Zaki.

1004
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 16: It's really tragic.

1005
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 1: If cynicism were a pill, it'd be a poison.

1006
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 6: We'll see that our fellow humans, even those we disagree with,

1007
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 6: are more generous than we assume.

1008
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 20: My assumption, my feeling, my hunch is that a lot

1009
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 20: of us are actually looking for a way to disagree

1010
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 20: and be in relationships with each other.

1011
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 6: All that on the Happiness Lab, listen on the iHeartRadio app,

1012
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 6: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1013
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 9: I'm Carrie Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports,

1014
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 9: where we live at the intersection of sports and culture.

1015
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 9: Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry, Caitlin

1016
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 9: Clark versus Angel Reese.

1017
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 8: I know I'll go down in history.

1018
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 11: People are talking about women's basketball is just because of

1019
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 11: one single game.

1020
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 10: Every great player needs a foil.

1021
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 7: And hear them wise, I just come here to play basketball.

1022
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 14: Ray kendled that, and that's what I focused.

1023
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 9: On from college to the pros. Clark and Reeves have

1024
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 9: changed the way we consume women's sports.

1025
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:48,880
Speaker 3: Angel Reese is a joy to watch. She is unapologetically black.

1026
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 11: I love her.

1027
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 9: What exactly ignited this fire? Why has it been so

1028
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 9: good for the game? And can the fanfare surrounding these

1029
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 9: two supernovas be sustained? This game is only going to

1030
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 9: get better because the talent is getting better. This new

1031
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 9: season will cover all things sports and culture. Listen to

1032
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,959
Speaker 9: Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network. iHeartRadio, app,

1033
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 9: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1034
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,479
Speaker 3: The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by diet Coke.

1035
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,960
Speaker 22: Hey, I'm Bruce Bosi on my podcast Table for two.

1036
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,840
Speaker 22: We have unforgettable lunch after unforgettable lunch with the best

1037
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 22: guest you could possibly ask for, people like David Duchovny.

1038
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 18: You know in New York's have a reputations being very tough,

1039
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 18: but it's not.

1040
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 1: It's not that way at all. They're very accepting.

1041
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 22: Jeff Goldbloom, Are you saying secret fries, secret fries, That's

1042
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 22: what you're saying.

1043
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1044
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 1: And Kristen Wig, I.

1045
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,360
Speaker 8: Just became so aware that I'm such a loud cheer.

1046
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,919
Speaker 6: My husband's just like sometimes I'll be eating and he'll

1047
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 6: just be looking at me.

1048
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 11: I'm like, I'm just.

1049
00:51:46,719 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 6: Eating, like I don't know how else to two.

1050
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 22: Table for two is a bit different from other interview shows.

1051
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 22: We sit down at a great restaurant for a meal

1052
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,479
Speaker 22: and the stories start flowing. Our second season is Aaron

1053
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 22: right now, so you can catch up on our conversations

1054
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 22: that are intimate, surprising, and often hilarious. Listen to Table

1055
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 22: for two with Bruce Bosi and the iHeartRadio app, Apple

1056
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 22: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

1057
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 11: All right, we're talking about nothing, Dan, Is this like

1058
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 11: the Seinfeld episode of the podcast? Just about nothing?

1059
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: As long as that can be Sinfeld instead of George.

1060
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 11: Then sure, YadA, YadA YadA the universe.

1061
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:41,759
Speaker 1: Or maybe I should be Kreamer. I don't know, as

1062
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 1: long as I'm not Newman, oh Man.

1063
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 11: I want to be a Lean. She's the coolest one.

1064
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 1: She definitely is. It is a really fun idea, and

1065
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: it's always cool to think about how your conception of

1066
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: the universe could be totally different from what everybody's been imagining.

1067
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: Right the biggest ideas are the sexiest, because that also

1068
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: give you those moments you're like, Wow, the universe is

1069
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: this way and not some other way. And this would

1070
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: be a pretty big idea. I mean, this would be

1071
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: putting our galaxy near the center of an enormous cosmic

1072
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: feature in order to explain the redshifts that we are seeing.

1073
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: To fit this to the data, you have to have

1074
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: a big void, something that's three billion light years in radius,

1075
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 1: a gigaparsec.

1076
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 11: And that's the only way this works. Or what does

1077
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:31,879
Speaker 11: that mean.

1078
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: That's the only way this works.

1079
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 11: It's the only nothing explanation that fits what we currently see.

1080
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when we look out into the universe, we

1081
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: see the sort of same history in every direction. Right,

1082
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: So if you look one direction, you see things closer

1083
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: by expanding more quickly than things further away. If you

1084
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: look in another direction, another direction, another direction, it's very isotropic.

1085
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: And so to explain that by like a coincidence of

1086
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: the density, you need the universe to be more dense

1087
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: basically in every direction, which requires a huge void, and

1088
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: it requires us to be at the center of it,

1089
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: and it requires that void to be basically spherical, So

1090
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: you have the same weird density as a function of

1091
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: distance effect in every direction, and so yeah, that's kind

1092
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: of a big cosmic coincidence if it's.

1093
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 11: True, meaning like we're right smack in the middle of

1094
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 11: this giant void.

1095
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like it doesn't have to be exactly in

1096
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: the middle to within like a centimeter, but on cosmic

1097
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: distance scales, we'd have to be very close to the

1098
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: center because we've measured this expansion effect in lots of

1099
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: different directions and it seems the same in every direction.

1100
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, we'd have to be at the center of it.

1101
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: And this really violates this Copernican principle, this idea that

1102
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 1: like the universe is basically the same everywhere, and like, yeah,

1103
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,240
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of clumpiness, but there's no huge

1104
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: features that make this neighborhood totally different from that neighborhood.

1105
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: And you know that's not something we know. It's just

1106
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 1: something we've assumed. It makes sense, it fits with the

1107
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,160
Speaker 1: way we'd like to think about the universe. Until nature

1108
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: shows us that it's not true. We're kind of going

1109
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: to go with it because we like the idea. Doesn't

1110
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: mean that it is true, right, It doesn't mean that

1111
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: the universe has to be the same everywhere.

1112
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 11: I guess you know. What's confusing me is like, couldn't

1113
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 11: we tell if we were in a void, Like you know,

1114
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 11: we can look with our telescopes and we can see

1115
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 11: galaxies all the way out to the observable universe. Wouldn't

1116
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 11: we have notice by now that there are more of

1117
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 11: them further away than what we can see close to us.

1118
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, we could tell if we had seen all

1119
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: the galaxies out there and map the density. But you know,

1120
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 1: things that are really far away are hard to see.

1121
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: In order to see things super duper far away, you

1122
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: have to point a very powerful telescope at them, and

1123
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: you have to look for a while because these galaxies

1124
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 1: are very very dim and they're very very red shifted.

1125
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: So we have a telescope that can do that, like

1126
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: James web has been breaking records and seeing galaxies really

1127
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: really far away into the early universe. But James Webb

1128
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: is very expensive, and we have one of it, and

1129
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: it can only point in some directions at a time,

1130
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: and space is extraordinarily vast. The number of galaxies we're

1131
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: talking about are huge, so we basically just haven't really

1132
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 1: looked far enough, like we've seen nearby stuff, and we'd

1133
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 1: like to think that we've seen to the edge of

1134
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: the observable universe. We only have really done that in

1135
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 1: a few tiny directions, and so like our detailed three

1136
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 1: D map of the universe definitely does not extend all

1137
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: the way out to the observable universe. There are lots

1138
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 1: of places out there where it's very fuzzy.

1139
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 11: But I guess you wouldn't need to see all of

1140
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 11: the universe. You just need to see whether things are

1141
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 11: dense or out there near the edge of the observable

1142
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 11: universe than they are here. Isn't that sort of a

1143
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 11: easy check.

1144
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 1: Well, we don't see any evidence of that, right, but

1145
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: they could still make the data fit. Because our observations

1146
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 1: are still limited. They can make this data fit, And

1147
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: so you can come up with a theory of the

1148
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: universe that respects general relativity and describes all of the

1149
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: redshifts that we see from type one A supernova and

1150
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: our observations of galaxy densities so far, and doesn't require

1151
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: any dark energy. But it does require this sort of

1152
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: like bubble where the density of the universe is smaller

1153
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,520
Speaker 1: in our neighborhood. But you can still do that and

1154
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: be consistent with all of these observations. I know that

1155
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: sounds crazy.

1156
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 11: Oh, I see what you're saying. You're saying like maybe

1157
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 11: it could be that all of the are checks of

1158
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 11: the density of the universe out there were somehow we

1159
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 11: just looked in the wrong places kind of, So what

1160
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 11: you're saying.

1161
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 1: Kind of and I think probably people overestimate how much

1162
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,040
Speaker 1: we've looked into the deep universe. We really don't have

1163
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: that much data. So it's not that hard to squeak

1164
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 1: it a little bit and still be consistent with the

1165
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: deep images of the distant universe, because those are pretty rare.

1166
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: But there are other ways that we could tell whether

1167
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: we were in a bubble. There are other impacts this

1168
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 1: theory has on things that we can measure much more

1169
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: precisely than just like actually looking and measuring the density.

1170
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 1: This idea has consequences for other things that we have

1171
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: very sensitive probes for.

1172
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 11: All Right, what are some of those ways, Well.

1173
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 1: Maybe the most powerful is the cosmic microwave background radiation.

1174
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: Like we look at the structure of the universe. Now,

1175
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: as you're saying, how much density is there? Where are

1176
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: the galaxies? But all that structure is seeded in little

1177
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: density fluctuations from the early universe. Right. The whole reason

1178
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: we have structure, the reason we have a galaxy here

1179
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: and not a galaxy there, is because in the early

1180
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,440
Speaker 1: universe there was a little spot that was little denser,

1181
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: and gravity gathered stuff together to make galaxies, for example.

1182
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: So we can predict how stuff should be distributed in

1183
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: the universe today based on those fluctuations in the cosmic

1184
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 1: microwave background radiation. That light from the very early universe,

1185
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 1: and that life from the very early universe is very,

1186
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: very smooth. Right. It tells us that there should be

1187
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:41,720
Speaker 1: no huge features. It tells us exactly how big those

1188
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: density fluctuations should be, and it lines up with what

1189
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: we see. Right. The stuff we see in the universe,

1190
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 1: both close and far away, has just about the right

1191
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: density fluctuations, meaning like galaxies and clumps of galaxies and

1192
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 1: actually big voids between those galaxies. We have seen huge

1193
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: voids between clusters galaxies, not as big as the one

1194
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: this requires, but there are big voids out there in space,

1195
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: and all that is perfectly described by the cosmic microwave

1196
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: background radiation. And a huge megavoid that we're at the

1197
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 1: center of is not consistent with what we see in

1198
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: the CMB, there's no fluctuations in it that would give

1199
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: such an enormous.

1200
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 11: Feature, Like, you don't see other voids in the cosmic

1201
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 11: microwrate background, But would you see this void, this potential

1202
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 11: giant void we're in in the cosmic micro rate background

1203
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 11: or does it tell you that there isn't avoid the.

1204
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 1: Cosmic microwave background tells you that there should be no

1205
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 1: huge void, and it does predict other voids. It does

1206
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: predict that we should see big gaps between galaxies, and

1207
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: we see those and we measure those, but it suggests

1208
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: that they should not get voids this big. Right. Basically,

1209
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 1: the size of the wiggles in the early universe limits

1210
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: how big the features can be in our current universe. Right,

1211
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: you'd need huge wiggles in the CMB to make huge

1212
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: wiggles now. We only see small wiggles in the early universe,

1213
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: So we should have small voids in small clumps now,

1214
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 1: And that's basically what we see.

1215
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 11: Wait, it tells you that it's impossible or does it

1216
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 11: tell you that it's rare for us to be in

1217
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:09,440
Speaker 11: a huge void like that?

1218
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: I think technically it tells you that it's very, very

1219
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: unlikely because the light we're seeing from the CMB is

1220
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: not the light from the plasma that was here that

1221
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: formed our structures. It's the lighte from the plasma that

1222
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: was very far away, and it's been traveling to us

1223
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 1: the whole history of the universe. So we're not actually

1224
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: seeing the patterns that led to the formation of our structure.

1225
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: We're seeing the patterns that led to the formation a

1226
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 1: structure that's very far away now, and so we can't

1227
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: actually see like the blueprints that led to our structure.

1228
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: We can just see the blueprints that led to other structure,

1229
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: and we see nothing like that anywhere else in the universe,

1230
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: and so it'd be very unlikely for that to happen

1231
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: here if it's never happened anywhere else in the universe.

1232
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: So that's sort of the argument, m.

1233
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 11: All right, So the CMB says probably not.

1234
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1235
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: And there's another argument, which has to do with how

1236
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: elements are made. The early universe was very very dense,

1237
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: dense enough briefly to cause nuclear fusion to make protons

1238
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: and for some of those protons to make helium, and

1239
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 1: the density of that really determines what elements were made.

1240
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: We have a very good understanding of how that works,

1241
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: and if it lines up very very well with what

1242
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: we see out there in the universe, how much helium

1243
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: and hydrogen and lithium there was made during the Big Bang.

1244
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: This whole field is called Big Bang and nucleosynthesis. And

1245
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: so that's a very sensitive probe of the density of

1246
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: the early universe in our neighborhood. And so if we

1247
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: got that wrong somehow, if the universe weirdly was under

1248
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: dense in our region, you would see that in the

1249
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: amount of helium made in the Big Bang, and we don't,

1250
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: and so that's pretty hard to reconcile with what we see. Also,

1251
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: we've more recently measured a lot more Type one A supernova.

1252
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: This idea of the big void was very popular, like

1253
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: maybe ten years ago, when we had many fewer measurements

1254
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: of the supernova and there were some gaps, and so

1255
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: it was easier to sort of like fit this to

1256
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 1: the data. But more recent measurements by the Sloan Digital

1257
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: Sky Survey, for example, make it much harder to explain

1258
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 1: the red shifts using this sort of like weird void bubble.

1259
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 11: Thing, meaning we have better data about where things are

1260
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 11: out there.

1261
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly we sort of filled in some gaps by

1262
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 1: taking more and more measurements of type one A supernova,

1263
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: and that makes it harder and harder to even explain

1264
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 1: the red shifts using this void.

1265
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,919
Speaker 11: Meaning we're more confident that things are not denser out there, yeah,

1266
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 11: or we're just more confident by where things are.

1267
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,439
Speaker 1: We're more confident about where things are, and that makes

1268
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,040
Speaker 1: it harder to come up with a consistent picture of

1269
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 1: us being at the center of a void as an

1270
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: alternative explanation for the red shifts that we're seeing. But

1271
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: you know, there's lots of remaining to be understood, Like

1272
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: some of the voids that are out there in space.

1273
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,479
Speaker 1: We don't understand how they formed and how big they got.

1274
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: And there's still the hubble tension, like the expansion of

1275
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: the universe. So it's not like the explanation we have

1276
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: is perfect. There's lots of holes in it, lots of

1277
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: things that still don't work, lots of opportunities for other ideas.

1278
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: But I think this void theory, as cool as it sounds,

1279
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: works less well than the current mainstream dark energy.

1280
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 11: Idea, this idea that there's this mysterious invisible energy that

1281
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:10,480
Speaker 11: we can't explain either exactly.

1282
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of work left to do to

1283
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: make that even like a coherent theory. But it's sort

1284
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: of like our best current idea.

1285
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 11: H Well, I guess if it has so many counts

1286
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 11: against it, why are people even considering this? Why do

1287
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 11: we just spend an hour talking about it?

1288
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: I think people are still considering other ideas because the

1289
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: whole concept of dark energy does have flaws, and it

1290
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: is a big idea, and it's healthy to maintain different

1291
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: directions of research because we could run into a big problem.

1292
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: You know, in sketching out the details of dark energy,

1293
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,560
Speaker 1: we could discover a fundamental flaw in the whole plan,

1294
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: so that doesn't hang together. You know. It's like when

1295
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: you build a house and you discover while the plumbing

1296
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: is just not going to fit with the electrical like,

1297
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 1: we got to go back to the drawing board. So

1298
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: it's important to keep your mind open and consider other ideas.

1299
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 11: Plus, it's fun, right, right, other ideas for other people

1300
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 11: to try to figure out the tree right exactly? Just

1301
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 11: not you, Yeah, maybe I should You're done.

1302
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 1: Maybe I should just send the couch, eat chocolate and

1303
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: let somebody else figure it.

1304
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 11: Out, right, but dark chocolate or white chocolate? Any which

1305
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 11: part of the universe are you in?

1306
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 1: If our part of the universe is turning into white chocolate,

1307
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: then I'm thinking about moving.

1308
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 11: You know what, sounds like you already gave up on

1309
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 11: the whole universe, so now you're just giving up on

1310
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 11: the local universe exactly, all right? Well, an interesting discussion

1311
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 11: about maybe the biggest mystery in the entire universe. What

1312
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,880
Speaker 11: is dark energy? What's causing the universe to expand faster

1313
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 11: and faster? Is it just all a big illusion or

1314
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 11: is there really some sort of mysterious energy out there?

1315
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 1: Well, I think the theory of dark energy is on

1316
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: the right track. It's really important to think about other ideas,

1317
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: and it also helps us understand the strengths and the

1318
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 1: weaknesses of dark energy, what we do and what we

1319
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: don't really know.

1320
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 11: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us. See

1321
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 11: you next time.

1322
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 1: For more science and curiosity, come find us on social

1323
01:05:05,480 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: media where we answer questions and post videos. We're on Twitter, Discord, Instant,

1324
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 1: and now TikTok. Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel

1325
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: and Jorge explain the universe is a production of iHeartRadio.

1326
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1327
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When you

1328
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably

1329
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in

1330
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: the dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every

1331
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Speaker 1: day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources,

1332
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Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. House US dairy tackling

1333
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Speaker 1: greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the

1334
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Speaker 1: methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

1335
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Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit you as dairy dot COM's Last

1336
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Speaker 1: Sustainability to learn more.

1337
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: Hey, I'm Jackie Thomas, the host of a brand new

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Speaker 2: Black Effects original series, black Lit, the podcast for diving

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Speaker 2: deep into the rich world of black literature. Black Lit

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Speaker 2: is for the page turners, for those who listen to

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Speaker 2: audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a

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Speaker 2: busy day. From thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll

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Speaker 2: explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black

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Speaker 2: Lit on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,

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Speaker 2: or wherever.

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Speaker 15: You get your podcasts.

1347
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Speaker 3: The Black Effect podcast network is sponsored by diet Coke.

1348
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 6: I'm doctor Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast.

1349
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 6: Is the US elections approach. It can feel like we're

1350
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 6: angrier and more divided than ever, But in a new

1351
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 6: hopeful season of my podcast, I'll Share with the Science,

1352
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 6: it really shows that we're surprisingly more united than most

1353
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 6: people think.

1354
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Speaker 8: We all know something is wrong in our culture and

1355
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 8: our politics, and that we need to do better and

1356
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 8: that we can do that.

1357
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 6: Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you

1358
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Speaker 6: listen to podcasts.

1359
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Speaker 4: From tips for healthy living to the latest medical breakthroughs.

1360
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Speaker 4: WebMD's Health Discovered podcast keeps you up to date on

1361
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Speaker 4: today's most important health issues. Through in depth conversations with

1362
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Speaker 4: experts from across the healthcare community. WebMD reveals how today's

1363
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Speaker 4: health news will impact your life tomorrow.

1364
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Speaker 5: It's not that people don't know that exercise is healthy.

1365
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Speaker 5: It's just that people don't know why it's healthy, and

1366
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Speaker 5: we're struggling to try to help people help themselves in

1367
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Speaker 5: each other.

1368
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 4: Listen to WebMD Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or

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Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcasts.

1370
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 17: I'm Joe Gatto, I'm Steve Burne.

1371
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 1: We are two Cool Moms.

1372
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 16: We certainly are.

1373
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: And guess where we could find us now?

1374
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 16: Oh, I don't know.

1375
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 17: The iHeart podcast network.

1376
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 3: That's right.

1377
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 18: We're an official ieart podcast and I'm super excited about that.

1378
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 8: I am too.

1379
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 19: I thought Two Cool Moms was such a fun podcast, but.

1380
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 11: Now it's even more funer and cooler and heartier.

1381
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 1: That's right, it's more ieheartier.

1382
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Speaker 13: I knew it.

1383
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 16: Check your heart rate. We're here at iHeart.

1384
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Speaker 18: Yeah, you could find us wherever you listen to your

1385
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 18: pot podcasts are on the iHeartRadio Apple