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Speaker 1: Hello all. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show.

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Speaker 1: We explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Scarlett Foo, Damien Zas Sour.

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Speaker 1: We'll be back next week. Don't worry, but he's missing

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Speaker 1: a great show. Coming up, we'll talk with Lisa Brummel

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Speaker 1: and Jinny Gilder, co owners of one of the most

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Speaker 1: popular and successful WNBA franchises, the Seattle Storm.

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Speaker 3: We'll doing this Seattle Storm, have fun back to them.

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Speaker 2: The Storm is also the league's most valuable franchise at

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Speaker 2: around one hundred and fifty one million dollars, so we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk with them about their success and how

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Speaker 2: they keep fans pouring into the stadium.

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Speaker 3: Franchise value is really come coming from fan value. We

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Speaker 3: have to deliver value to the fans every day in

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Speaker 3: and out because we can't predict whether we're going to

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Speaker 3: win or not win any single game, so the fans

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Speaker 3: have to be able to show up and believe and

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Speaker 3: understand that they're getting value.

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Speaker 1: That is straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

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Speaker 1: But first we do a check in on baseball. We're

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Speaker 1: heading into the home stretch of the regular season, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to take a look at what it's all

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Speaker 1: about from a former players perspective. We're going to talk

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Speaker 1: to MLB All Star and MLB Players Association Executive Director

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Speaker 1: Tony Clark. Hey, Hey, he played for Detroit, Tony the

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Speaker 1: Tiger Clark. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business.

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Speaker 4: And Sports Starling, Michael, Thanks for having me, glad to

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Speaker 4: be on.

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Speaker 1: Let's start. First of all, let's talk about because now

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Speaker 1: you know you're the head of the of the union

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Speaker 1: in Major League here, state of the league, of the

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Speaker 1: players perspective, Where do you see it right now?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the industry itself is moving in a

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Speaker 4: good direction. Obviously the last few years we've had our

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Speaker 4: challenges personally and professionally. I think we've all had our

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Speaker 4: challenges on the heels of COVID and how that shook

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Speaker 4: up any number of industries in twenty twenty But coming

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Speaker 4: out of that and now on the other side of

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Speaker 4: our work stoppage and lockout in twenty twenty two, we're

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Speaker 4: moving in a good direction. So thinking positive thoughts. The

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Speaker 4: players are obviously playing remarkably well across the league, and

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Speaker 4: we're excited about the possibilities moving forward.

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Speaker 2: I have to tell you I went to a Yankees

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Speaker 2: game earlier this summer, and I was amazed at how

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Speaker 2: quickly the game now moves with the pitch clock. It

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Speaker 2: was as if you couldn't leave your seat because you

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Speaker 2: might miss something. And that's kind of the opposite of

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Speaker 2: what was happening in the last few years, where you

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Speaker 2: could turn away and come back. And maybe we're still

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Speaker 2: with the same pitch count, because who knows what was

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Speaker 2: happening in between. I guess the question now is what

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Speaker 2: happens during the playoffs. I think about how in hockey,

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Speaker 2: a lot of the calls, the penalties that would be

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Speaker 2: normally called during the regular season, don't get called during

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Speaker 2: the playoffs because it's a new level of play, it's

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Speaker 2: more intense, and the stakes are higher.

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Speaker 4: I one hundred percent agree with you on the difference

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Speaker 4: between the regular season and the playoffs, and would be

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Speaker 4: lying to you if I said it wasn't a bit

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Speaker 4: of a concern, kind of going back to where you started.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that there's any player, or ever has been,

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Speaker 4: any player, as much as we love to play, that

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Speaker 4: would ever enjoy standing out there and playing for three

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Speaker 4: and a half four hours save an extra any game,

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Speaker 4: of course, but the idea that the games are short,

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Speaker 4: that's great. Still have some challenges within and nuances within

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Speaker 4: that period of time that we're still working through. But

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Speaker 4: your point about the postseason is a concerning one and

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Speaker 4: one that that players have raised with the league making

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Speaker 4: sure that as a result of a new rule, we

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Speaker 4: don't find ourselves in a place where the most important

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Speaker 4: games of the year, if you will, are affected by them.

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Speaker 4: So we're keeping our fingers crossed at this point that

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Speaker 4: things remain positive and without issue through the postseason. But

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Speaker 4: I would be lying to you so there wasn't a

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Speaker 4: bit of a concern there.

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Speaker 2: What's the timeframe for coming up with an answer on that?

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Speaker 4: Well, the dialogue is aren't going. We have been consistent,

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Speaker 4: We meeting the players and their concerns have been consistent

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Speaker 4: really since day one of the discussions in regards to

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Speaker 4: on field rules for the twenty twenty three season, So

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Speaker 4: it's nothing new at this point. The league hasn't made

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Speaker 4: any changes. They've offered a number of clarifications, if you will,

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Speaker 4: against the backdrop of concerns that players told them were

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Speaker 4: going to happen before the season started. So no fundamental

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Speaker 4: changes necessarily, But in regard to the postseason, again, the

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Speaker 4: players have been consistent there and at this point in

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Speaker 4: August don't know that I anticipate there being any changes

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Speaker 4: despite the consistency and messaging for the player's side.

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Speaker 1: Okay, a shout out to the MLBPA, because you guys

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Speaker 1: led the drive to help the fifty five hundred minor

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Speaker 1: leaguers improve their working conditions. And I've always said, if

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Speaker 1: you want to see and have a fun time at

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Speaker 1: a ballpark, and if you want to take out the

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Speaker 1: entire family and it's cheap, go see a minor league

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Speaker 1: game because you can have a lot of fun watching

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Speaker 1: the Toledo mud Hens or somebody like that out there.

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Speaker 1: And and kudos to you guys. Can you expand more

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Speaker 1: on that and what that meant for the minor leaguers.

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Speaker 4: I sure can, Michael, most of us have played. Most

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Speaker 4: of us that have played have played in the minor leagues.

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Speaker 4: And I always joked that one of my advisors in

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Speaker 4: Dave Winfield, never did, so that's part of the conversation

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Speaker 4: that he can't participate in. But the vast majority of

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Speaker 4: us who played came through the minor leagues, and unfortunately

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Speaker 4: not much had changed from the time that even I

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Speaker 4: had gone through the minor leagues in their early nineties

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Speaker 4: to now, and on the heels of twenty twenty the

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Speaker 4: minor league season being shut down the elimination of teams,

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Speaker 4: shortly thereafter, players had had enough and wanted to make

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Speaker 4: sure that they had a formal seat at the table.

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Speaker 4: The major league players were very concerned about the minor

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Speaker 4: league players, again most of them having been minor league players,

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Speaker 4: and despite the conversation within our walls going back probably

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Speaker 4: a good decade or so when I first got done

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Speaker 4: playing and came in about the possibility of organizing them

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Speaker 4: and bringing them under our umbrella, it really wasn't until

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Speaker 4: this past year or two, coming out of twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: where there was momentum for it. And I often say,

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Speaker 4: Michael that any tangible change, significant, historical or otherwise change,

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Speaker 4: is often the result of leadership and the right in

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Speaker 4: this instant, right players at the right time coming together

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Speaker 4: to make this decision, and that's exactly what happened. So

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Speaker 4: I launched an organizing campaign around the minor leaguers and

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Speaker 4: bringing them under our umbrella, and the fall of last

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Speaker 4: year a two and a half weeks later, they were

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Speaker 4: voluntarily recognized by the league as a part of our union.

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Speaker 4: In one hundred and fifty days after that, we had

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Speaker 4: our first collective bargaining agreement in place ahead of the

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three season. So a lot of details and

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Speaker 4: moving pieces, but the fundamentals are real simple. Guys wanted

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Speaker 4: a formal seat at the table, had had enough of

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Speaker 4: being dictated too. I had had enough of the experience

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Speaker 4: that is less than ideal in the minor leagues up

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Speaker 4: to that point, and wanted to make some improvements. And

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Speaker 4: the major league guys concurred and were willing to open

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Speaker 4: the doors and bring them all in under our umbil.

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Speaker 2: So what's interesting in all of this is it turns

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Speaker 2: out Baseball and MLBPA was a head of the curve.

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Speaker 2: It feels like when it comes to what's happening with

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Speaker 2: the US labor movement overall. You have Hollywood writers and

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Speaker 2: actors on strike. You had the UPS drivers averting strike

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Speaker 2: because they managed to come up with an agreement with

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Speaker 2: UPS management. You have the possibility of the United Autoworkers

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Speaker 2: Union going on strike later this fall. Can you talk

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Speaker 2: a little bit about how the MLBPA fits into the

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Speaker 2: greater US labor movement right now, which is definitely having

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Speaker 2: this moment. What does it say about where we are

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Speaker 2: and the relationship between owners and workers.

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Speaker 4: Gotcha, it's a great question, and I agree Scarlett. There

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Speaker 4: has been a lot of movement of Leiden, a lot

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Speaker 4: more dialogue of Leiden. I think a lot of it

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Speaker 4: stems from, again the challenges that we've seen over the

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Speaker 4: last few years and having a lot of people ask

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Speaker 4: questions about why certain folks are doing extraordinarily well and

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Speaker 4: those of us grinding on the day to day maybe

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Speaker 4: not so much. And in this instance it's affecting all

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Speaker 4: the industries in a way that has folks across industries

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Speaker 4: having conversations. And I highlight that largely because in the

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Speaker 4: conversations that we had again coming out of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: there were a lot of folks affected, a lot of

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Speaker 4: unions affected, a lot of people affected as a part

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Speaker 4: of our game, with the decisions that the league made

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty to play a sixty game season and

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Speaker 4: then the decisions that the league made in locking players out.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of folks that make our industry

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Speaker 4: go and so as a result of that, started to

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Speaker 4: have a lot of the conversations with a lot of

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Speaker 4: those groups in ways that we hadn't really had them before.

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Speaker 4: That led to us becoming an affiliate of the afl

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Speaker 4: CIO again a connecting point for unions and labor and

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Speaker 4: the movement across the country and across different verticals of business,

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Speaker 4: and so a lot of conversation, a lot of dialogue,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of synergy around how can we support

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Speaker 4: one another in a way that moves all of us

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Speaker 4: forward in ways perhaps that we hadn't before to the

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Speaker 4: extent that we perhaps hadn't before. And so I think

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Speaker 4: those experiences, that dialogue and the support for one another

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Speaker 4: across industries has been an encouragement for not just our players,

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Speaker 4: who have learned a lot over the last few years

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Speaker 4: about our place in the broader labor movement, but an

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Speaker 4: encouragement to all those who are willing to perhaps step

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Speaker 4: out and suggest that improvements need to be made and

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Speaker 4: this is the best way to do so.

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Speaker 1: I've been in this business for a while and I

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Speaker 1: know that you can't comment on this particular subject I'm

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Speaker 1: going to bring up because it's an ongoing situation. All

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell people is look up the Wander

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Speaker 1: Franco situationism. It's going to leave it at that, But

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Speaker 1: I am going to ask this, and a general point,

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Speaker 1: what do people in the union do with players facing

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Speaker 1: negative off the field issues and what can the union

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Speaker 1: bring to help?

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Speaker 4: Well. Our responsibility is always to protect and advance the

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Speaker 4: rights and interests of our members. Part of that is

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Speaker 4: ensuring that due process is a part of anything that

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Speaker 4: happens on or off the field based on the structure

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Speaker 4: and processes and protocols that are part of our collective

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Speaker 4: barming agreement. So our job is to ensure that those proceeds,

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Speaker 4: that those protocols, that those rights are respected, and follows.

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Speaker 2: That's the process answer. As the first former MLB player

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Speaker 2: to lead the Players Union, I wonder how you use

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Speaker 2: your own career experience as a former player to approach

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Speaker 2: situations where players are facing these off the field issues.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think good, bad, are indifferent. My having played

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Speaker 4: has been beneficial in being able to articulate certain experiences

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Speaker 4: in certain thoughts, whether they were with me or with

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Speaker 4: a teammate, or simply happened during the time that I played.

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Speaker 4: So I do think there is some benefit there, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not a former player as much as I am

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Speaker 4: the executive director, which brings me back to the process

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Speaker 4: that I just mentioned. My job is to ensure that

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Speaker 4: those processes and protocols are followed to the extent. In

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Speaker 4: any situation good bad, are indifferent, the player is interested

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Speaker 4: in and or there's an opportunity for me to interject

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Speaker 4: some personal antidote, then I can do that, But first

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Speaker 4: and foremost is ensuring that the right and the protections

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Speaker 4: that are otherwise in place are a de.

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Speaker 1: Follow I'm gonna shift gears and bring up something fun

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Speaker 1: because I used to work at the WJR station the

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Speaker 1: Golden Tower of the Fisher Building, and for many years

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Speaker 1: covered the Detroit Tigers, and for many years I just

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Speaker 1: always think of Ernie Harwell, probably one of the greatest

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Speaker 1: sportscasters to put a toe on this planet. And I

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Speaker 1: remember listening on the radio, whether I'm fishing or whether

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Speaker 1: I'm working whatever, and there he is, and he's calling you,

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Speaker 1: and he, you know, the Tony the Tiger. I used

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Speaker 1: to love him. Can you comment for the Detroitters and

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Speaker 1: for people in general about Ernie Harwell and the times

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Speaker 1: you've met him.

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Speaker 4: Wow, how do I possibly put into words what Ernie

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Speaker 4: Harwell meant to me personally and professionally he and his

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Speaker 4: wife Lulu. Ernie was a good man who happened to

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Speaker 4: be an unbelievable baseball man, and who happened to be

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Speaker 4: an unbelievable storyteller. But first and foremost, he was a

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Speaker 4: good man. And that is something that that during the

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Speaker 4: time that that that we were together, I latched onto.

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Speaker 4: I had a great admiration and respect for watching he

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Speaker 4: and his wife Lulu together as the example for my

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Speaker 4: wife and I as as a young couple. All of

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Speaker 4: those things were front and center. And and yes, Michael,

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Speaker 4: it was an absolute blast to hear Ernie say my name,

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Speaker 4: particularly after something good. I mean, he had to say

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Speaker 4: my name after some of the rus on too. But

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Speaker 4: but but hearing hearing Ernie saying my name and even

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Speaker 4: having and I know I'm dating myself a little bit here,

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Speaker 4: but even having VHS States Now games that I played,

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Speaker 4: and hearing Ernie say my name is something that I'm

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Speaker 4: eternally grateful for.

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Speaker 1: We had a bowling charity tournament at thunder Bowl Lanes, because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I'm a native detroiter, and it was

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Speaker 1: you know, Ernie Harwell was leading the whole thing. So

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Speaker 1: we participated in it. And one day I get a

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Speaker 1: call and it's from Ernie Harwell. Is that Michael is

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Speaker 1: Ernie Harwell? And I'm supposed to be like, okay, don't

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Speaker 1: be starstruck, but of course I'm like, I was just

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Speaker 1: taken aback that man. God bless him, God rest his soul. People, boys, Scarlett,

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Speaker 1: I wish I wish he could have had a chance

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Speaker 1: to meet him, because he was something else.

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Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned VHS tapes, Michael Barr, from VHS tapes

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Speaker 2: to watching games now on your phones wherever you are.

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Speaker 2: I want to get your take, Tony on reports that

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Speaker 2: Disney is looking for sports leagues to partner up with ESPN.

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Speaker 2: It's had conversations with the NBA, with the MLB about

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Speaker 2: maybe taking a minority stake in ESPN. What would be

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Speaker 2: the Players Association's take on this? What's your thinking on

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Speaker 2: that kind of partnership?

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Speaker 4: Well, Scarlet, to your point, there's a lot of scuttle

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Speaker 4: out there right now. I think all of it is interesting,

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Speaker 4: and I say interesting for no other reason, and I

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Speaker 4: think it's part of parcel as to why the dialogue

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Speaker 4: is out there. The RSN model, the existing RSN model

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Speaker 4: is falling apart a bit, and direct to consumer is

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Speaker 4: moving into the four. Streaming and the like, core cutting

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Speaker 4: and the like are all has everyone trying to figure

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Speaker 4: out the best way to situate themselves while also highlighting

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Speaker 4: or acknowledging that content remains king, and particularly live content

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Speaker 4: remains king in the overalloching content conversation. So I think

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Speaker 4: a lot of things that are being thrown out there

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Speaker 4: at this point. Some of them are some spit bawling

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Speaker 4: and ideas that are going on in some boardrooms. I

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Speaker 4: think others may very well have some traction. We are

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Speaker 4: in constant communication with the league making sure that as

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Speaker 4: our particular game and how it's situated, and how it's

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Speaker 4: being affected by media partners and by the r ends

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Speaker 4: in particular, how it's affecting our industry, and how, if

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Speaker 4: at all, it may very well require a conversation at

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Speaker 4: a bargaining table in midstream as a result of changes

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Speaker 4: or considerations that the league may be interested in making.

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Speaker 4: The rest assured, unless or until there's a little more

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Speaker 4: meat on some of these bones, We're not going to

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Speaker 4: burn too much daylight on it of a van, making

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Speaker 4: sure that we're prepared to have the conversation and voice

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Speaker 4: any concerns that we may have with the league. But

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Speaker 4: it's not uncommon, I think, particularly in this atmosphere for

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Speaker 4: folks to be trying to figure out how best to

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Speaker 4: position themselves for the next five or ten years. And

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Speaker 4: the idea of a long standing media partner wanting to

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Speaker 4: have a conversation with a league or leagues about what

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Speaker 4: tomorrow looks like. I understand it. But there are going

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Speaker 4: to be ramifications as a result of the model changing,

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Speaker 4: and we look forward to having them once we get

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Speaker 4: a little clear picture or indication as to what that

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Speaker 4: looks like.

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Speaker 1: Back in the day, when teams sold merchandise usually was

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Speaker 1: of a jersey that you had. Maybe you can get

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Speaker 1: a trading card and stuff like that. Now it's totally

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Speaker 1: off the hook. Merchandise is being sold left and right.

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Speaker 1: You've got the digital games. I mean, we can just

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Speaker 1: go on and on and on. What is the Union

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Speaker 1: doing or do they need to do anything about with

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Speaker 1: the name, image and likeness because of an athlete, they

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Speaker 1: deserve a particular cut involved in that because that's their

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Speaker 1: name out there, what is the Union stance on them?

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Speaker 4: Well, Michael, to your your points, we have what's called

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Speaker 4: a group licensing program where the players allow us the

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Speaker 4: opportunity to monetize their name, image and likeness. As a

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Speaker 4: part of a group licensing program, the individual players have

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Speaker 4: an opportunity themselves to take their name, image and likeness

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Speaker 4: and do deals individually. But at the point in time

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Speaker 4: where there are three or more players than there are

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Speaker 4: conversations that we have to have as the rights holder

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Speaker 4: for the players with said business, whatever that business is.

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Speaker 4: Our group licensing program was established way back when Marvin

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Speaker 4: Miller had the foresite after he became executive director in

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Speaker 4: six to six, had the foresight to try and monetize

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Speaker 4: additional revenue streams and in this instance name, image and

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Speaker 4: likeness of the players, understanding and appreciating that without the name,

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Speaker 4: image and likeness of the player, you don't have an

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Speaker 4: industry just doesn't work that way, so he established our

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Speaker 4: group licensing program. Fast forward, the group licensing program has

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Speaker 4: indeed been a revenue stream and fundamental revenue supporting mechanism

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Speaker 4: for the Union for that used to the last fifty

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Speaker 4: plus years, and so as of a handful of years ago,

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Speaker 4: there had been a number of growth opportunities and some changes,

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Speaker 4: but for the most part, our group licensing program had

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Speaker 4: remained pretty static, adjusting and adapting as best we could,

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Speaker 4: but remained fairly static. And so made some changes, establishing

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Speaker 4: a for profit subsidiary of the PA and having our

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Speaker 4: players incorporated. Our players inc our business function more like

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Speaker 4: a business rather than just a group licensing program. In

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Speaker 4: doing so, a handful of years ago really stepped out

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Speaker 4: of the boat and tried to shake things up. And

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Speaker 4: when I say shake things up was the definition of

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Speaker 4: insanity doing the same thing over and over again and

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Speaker 4: expecting a different result. Well, to your point, believed that

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Speaker 4: that name, image and likeness was more valuable than it

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Speaker 4: was being given credit for, and so we wanted to

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Speaker 4: change the model by which we functioned in affording ourselves

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Speaker 4: some additional flexibility to grow new business. In addition, we

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Speaker 4: co founded with the NFLPA one Team Partners, a business

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Speaker 4: that takes name, image and likeness and certain rights and

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Speaker 4: aggregates them in a way that creates a stronger together

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Speaker 4: type of environment. We did that in twenty nineteen on

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Speaker 4: the heels of us moving out of and out from

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Speaker 4: under the PA umbrella. So doing so, our own individual

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Speaker 4: business has grown some two hundred percent in the last

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Speaker 4: four years. The business that I just mentioned with one

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Speaker 4: team partners has a valuation of just under two billion dollars.

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Speaker 4: Now a few years moved to I think someone mentioned

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Speaker 4: trading cards, or Michael, I think you mentioned trading cards

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Speaker 4: a second ago. We helped usher in a new area

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Speaker 4: of trading cards with and alongside fanatics and so trying

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Speaker 4: to shake some things up, realizing or appreciating and I'm

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Speaker 4: a bit bullish on this that the player name, image

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Speaker 4: and likeness professionally and on the amateur side is way

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Speaker 4: more valuable than folks are wanting to give it credit for.

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Speaker 4: And what we have been able to do over the

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Speaker 4: last few years is demonstrate that more tangibly and adjusting

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Speaker 4: our processes and adjusting our structures in a way that

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Speaker 4: allows players to better take advantage of it.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for explaining that. I wonder how the Union

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Speaker 2: is supporting players for the Oakland A's. The team is

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Speaker 2: set to play in Oakland at the Oakland Coliseum through

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Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four season, and then after that. It's

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Speaker 2: a big question mark. The LAS Vegas Ballpark can't open

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Speaker 2: before twenty twenty eight. And I know that this is

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Speaker 2: is a conversation that takes place at the league level

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Speaker 2: and at the team management level, but surely the players

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Speaker 2: are left kind of bereft.

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Speaker 4: Well, we have a seat at that table. Now I

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Speaker 4: say a seat at that table to also not very

383
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Speaker 4: the lead. It has been unfortunate the process that has

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Speaker 4: taken place in this instance. It is unfortunate how the

385
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Speaker 4: fans have been treated in this instance. It is unfortunate

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Speaker 4: how the players, as a result of just wanting to

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Speaker 4: go out and play their best baseball and do their job,

388
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Speaker 4: are caught up in all of it. And so, while

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Speaker 4: the league often makes and the teams often make determinations

390
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Speaker 4: about where a new franchise may come from or where

391
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Speaker 4: an existing franchise may move to, to your point, Scartlett,

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Speaker 4: there are a lot of moving pieces associated with that

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Speaker 4: decision that we are a part of in privy to

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Speaker 4: as well. So, despite the fact it's a long winded

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Speaker 4: way of saying, despite the fact that there's a lot

396
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Speaker 4: of rhetoric out there, some of it accurate, some of

397
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Speaker 4: it perhaps not so much, we are a part of

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Speaker 4: that conversation and will continue to be from the standpoint

399
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Speaker 4: of how it's going to affect our players and how

400
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 4: it's going to affect the system. So not ideal, It

401
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 4: truly isn't. And it is unfortunate when you take the

402
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Speaker 4: sixth largest market in Oakland and you start having conversations

403
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Speaker 4: about moving it to a much smaller market and how

404
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 4: that's going to affect the system overall, not to mention

405
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 4: the hope at least that we're also in a position

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Speaker 4: in the not too distant future to capitalize on the

407
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Speaker 4: growth of the industry and add franchises. This one has

408
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Speaker 4: been a challenged now over multiple years and dare I

409
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Speaker 4: say upwards of a decade plus, and it is unfortunate.

410
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Speaker 2: What is the player's number one concern when it comes

411
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Speaker 2: to just trying to figure out what the next step

412
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 2: is for for the a's.

413
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 4: Well, it's really get it figured out. When once we

414
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Speaker 4: get it figured out, where are they going, when are

415
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 4: they going to be there, What are the ramifications around it,

416
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 4: How is it going to affect the system, How is

417
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Speaker 4: it going to affect players and the decisions that they

418
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 4: may need to make. In other words, players coming in

419
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 4: as free agents not knowing what tomorrow looks like, or

420
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Speaker 4: where they're going to be playing existing players on the roster,

421
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: trying to determine whether to what extent families are coming

422
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Speaker 4: with them or traveling according there, how do they just

423
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Speaker 4: do they have two residences that they've got to take

424
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Speaker 4: care of as opposed to knowing they're going to be

425
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Speaker 4: in one place for a set period of time. So

426
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Speaker 4: there's a lot there. I don't know if there's one

427
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 4: headliner headline outside of get it figured out as opposed

428
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Speaker 4: to this ongoing rhetoric, because there are a number of

429
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 4: dominoes that are going to fall as soon as the

430
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: rubber meets the road here.

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Speaker 1: Tony Clark, executive director for Major League Baseball Players Association,

432
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Speaker 1: former MLB All Star, fifteen year MLB veteran played, of course,

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Speaker 1: some of his best years in Detroit for the Detroit Tigers.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm rooting in the press box. I shouldn't

435
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: do that, Tony, thank you so much, and what and not,

436
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 1: by the way, we forgot the most important part in

437
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: his career. Tony had a batting average of two sixty

438
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: two and hit two hundred and fifty one home runs.

439
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: And I saw a bunch of those in Detroit at

440
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: Michigan and Trumbull. I know people like you know what

441
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: is it. Yes, there's Comerica Park, but before that there

442
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: was the old Tiger Stadium, and I adored that place

443
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: because you had the big old polls there and if unfortunately,

444
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 1: if you sat in the wrong way, and if you

445
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: had a lady that had a Bufon hairstyle, you weren't

446
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: going to see much of the game. But that's another

447
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: story together, Tony, thank you so much man for joining

448
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

449
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 4: Michael Scarlan, my pleasure. Thanks for having me the opportunity

450
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 4: to be on. Greatly appreciate it.

451
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Tony Clark for joining us. He is

452
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: a former MLB All Star, fifteen year veteran and now

453
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: executive director of the MLB Players Association. Coming up next

454
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, returned to Basketball and

455
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: one of the most successful w NBA franchises, the Seattle Storm.

456
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: That's straight ahead on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Bloomberg

457
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: Radio around the World. Thanks for joining us on the

458
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports show. But we explored the big

459
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr

460
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: along with Scarlett Food Damian Sasaur. He will be back

461
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: next week.

462
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: Do you know the Seattle Storm Michael, yes, Well do it.

463
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 4: The Seattle Storm come in Highway Robbery on a Thursday night.

464
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: They are one of the most successful WNBA franchises. They've

465
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: won four total championships. They have a very passionate fan base.

466
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: Plus they are the league's most valuable club at a

467
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty one million dollars.

468
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: To learn more about the Seattle Storm keeping fans storming

469
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: into the stadium no matter what. We welcome co owners

470
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: Lisa Brummel and Ginny Gilder.

471
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me here.

472
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to start with the most obvious question.

473
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: It you guys have probably have the most valuable WNBA

474
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 1: team out there and very popular. So Lisa tell us,

475
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,159
Speaker 1: I mean, what is it like, you know, when you

476
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: are a co owner of a team, It's like, all

477
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's like, hey, you know what I

478
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: got to worry more about than just being a fan.

479
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,719
Speaker 3: It's wonderful to own a team. It's very different. Nothing

480
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 3: you can really prepare for unless you have a legacy

481
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: in your family. Neither Ginny nor I do in terms

482
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: of owning sports teams, but it's it's really fun. Part

483
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: of you is always a fan chearing the team on,

484
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: and the other part of you is a business person

485
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: sharing the business part of the team on. And it's

486
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 3: an interesting balance because sports is not as predictable as

487
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: some other consumer businesses might be, so you have to

488
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: have a much more flexible mindset if you think about

489
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: growing your business. When we bought the team here in Seattle,

490
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: we had a wonderful fan base. They were pride and true,

491
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: showed up for games, loved basketball, loved women's basketball in particular,

492
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,719
Speaker 3: and when the Somas moved out, we, along with our

493
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: partner Don Trudeau, felt as though there was an opportunity

494
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 3: to keep the team with a great fan base, and

495
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 3: long story short, we made that happen back in two

496
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: thousand and eight, and I'll say the fans have fan

497
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: base has only grown since then. The experience has only

498
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 3: gotten better, and we've had a tremendous amount of fun

499
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 3: winning championships for sure, but also building this business and

500
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: rebuilding this business again and now maybe rebuilding it for

501
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 3: the third time. So it's very exciting.

502
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: So Jenny I'm going to ask you the same thing,

503
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: is what is it like being a co owner?

504
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 5: Well, it's kind of the extension of my life as

505
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 5: an athlete. In college I was a rower, and basically

506
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 5: I get to be part of a team as a

507
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 5: grown up and sports, certainly in the world of basketball,

508
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: in the world of growing if you're going to be successful,

509
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 5: you've got to build successful a successful team. And when

510
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 5: you're part of a successful team, it doesn't mean just

511
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 5: wins and losses on you know, winds on the floor.

512
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 5: It means that you're there to figure out the future together,

513
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 5: what's the lay of the land. And when you're down,

514
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 5: there's always someone there to help you refocus on how

515
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 5: to improve and how you're going to get through whatever

516
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 5: you've got to get through. And when you're up, of course,

517
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 5: there's nothing more fun than celebrating with people you've worked

518
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 5: hard with. And you might know that rowers have a

519
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 5: very low threshold for fun. So my idea is fun

520
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,719
Speaker 5: is trying to build a business in rowing also, and

521
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 5: I think in most sports, actually, if you're really going

522
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: to be the best, easy is not why you're there.

523
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 5: You're there because you welcome a challenge and I get

524
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 5: to work every day with both my owner partners and

525
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 5: the people who run the business, as well as of

526
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 5: course our athletes on the floor building something of value

527
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 5: that's that's not easy to do, so I love it.

528
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 5: It's totally changed my life. I mean, I was fifty

529
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 5: when we bought the team. It was not the trajectory

530
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 5: I thought I was going to be on as a

531
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 5: crew older.

532
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Lisa, you mentioned building, rebuilding, maybe rebuilding the franchise once again,

533
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: there are a lot of questions, i'm sure from our

534
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: audience about how it is that the Seattle Storm now

535
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: has evaluation north of one hundred and fifty million dollars

536
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: and I think about the things the changes you've made.

537
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what your

538
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: experience or twenty five year history at Microsoft taught you

539
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: about the importance of the fan experience and how to

540
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: get engagement and how to drive engagement to create that

541
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: franchise value.

542
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: Sure, franchise value is really coming from fan value. We

543
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: have to deliver value to the fans every day in

544
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 3: and out because we can't predict whether we're going to

545
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: win or not win any single game, So the fans

546
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: have to be able to show up and believe and

547
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 3: understand that they're getting value and most importantly, be willing

548
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: to pay for it. And that's an economic statement, but

549
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: it's also a value statement in women's sports. You know,

550
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 3: we're just really growing into what I think is going

551
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: to be a massive, massive upswing in how people view

552
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: women's sports as an investment, how people view women's sports

553
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 3: as something you want to view as something that's streamed,

554
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 3: as something that has more media associated with it, and

555
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 3: that comes from driving value. And if I go back

556
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 3: to my Microsoft career, it's the same thing. You put

557
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: things together that give the customer value, and then the

558
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: value the customer wants to have more of it. It's

559
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 3: no different in Seattle. We put a price tag on it,

560
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 3: and our fans will keep coming back as long as

561
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: they believe we continue to bring them value, win or lose.

562
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 3: And I think that proposition has held us from the

563
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 3: time we bought the team. And I think it's important

564
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: in women's sports that you not only put a price

565
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 3: on value because it's there and women's sports deserves it,

566
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: but then you in turn delivered to that fan something

567
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: that they want to keep coming back for. And I

568
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: think that's one of the principles that we live by

569
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: is the fan having a great time, and the fans

570
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: see this as something they'd want to bring someone else to,

571
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 3: and we find other ways to engage the fan in

572
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 3: the off season. So really the growth now becomes how

573
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 3: many ways can we take that excited fan and help

574
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: them build our business, bring in more people and show

575
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 3: more value.

576
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: We're talking with Lisa Brummel and Jenny Glider, both co

577
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: owners of the Seattle Storm. Shout out by the way

578
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: to Don Trudeau, also a coiner of the team, and

579
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: Jenny more towards you on what Lisa said is that

580
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: the fan, like you said, is probably the key to

581
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: the whole thing, which means a lot of merchandise, and

582
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,959
Speaker 1: there's a lot of money to be made in the

583
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: merchandise world. Can you take us through that and what

584
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: it's like as a WNBA owner about merch Well.

585
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 5: It's interesting when we bought into our business and when

586
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 5: we bought the Storm, we were told that merchandise was

587
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 5: not really a viable.

588
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 6: Line of business.

589
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 5: It was such a small revenue item. But really through

590
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 5: the pandemic, you know, in twenty twenty, excuse me, we had,

591
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 5: you know, no to generate any revenue in an arena situation.

592
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 5: So our staff, being that creative, innovative folks they are,

593
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 5: came up with a whole idea for selling merch and

594
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 5: giving people access to special one shot deals and that

595
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 5: grew over the next three years to now a business

596
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 5: that has exploded. And we last year was our first

597
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,240
Speaker 5: year at Climate Pledge Arena, which was owned by OBG

598
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 5: and we share with the Seattle Kraken, our new men's

599
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 5: hockey team, and we now have the space to sell

600
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 5: merchandise in the arena in a way that we never

601
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 5: did before. So we are always creating new lines of product.

602
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 5: In fact, Don Trudeau, our co owner, was texting us

603
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 5: the other day sending us photos of new things that

604
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 5: she's decided to buy. I mean, it has totally exploded,

605
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 5: and you now are starting to see the US throughout

606
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 5: the city wearing equipment, wearing our gear, and other outlets

607
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 5: startants become interested in selling it. And Dick's Sporting Goods

608
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 5: is a great example. You know, Women's CEO women leadership

609
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 5: team made a huge commitment to selling women's pro sports gear.

610
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 5: So that shift in the kind of in the greater

611
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 5: business community, and then the culture, if you will, is

612
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 5: also contributing to people wanting to wear women's pro sports gear.

613
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that anecdote.

614
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: It's great to get a very specific example of how

615
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: things have worked out. I'm curious, Ginny, because you're playing

616
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: a key part right now in the development and planning

617
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: of the new team headquarters. I think it's a sixty

618
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: four million dollar development, and also the practice facility that's

619
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: going to be opening up in twenty twenty four. Can

620
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 2: you give us a sense of the strategy behind this,

621
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: because whenever we cover sports franchises and new facilities, there's

622
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 2: always a lot of talk about trying to convinced the

623
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: city to subsidize it, to sell bonds that inevitably taxpayers

624
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: will have to pony up money for. I'm curious from

625
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 2: where you sit how you guys went about how you

626
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: ladies went about financing the Storm Center for Basketball Performance.

627
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 5: Well, I can tell you you know, Climate Pledge Arenas

628
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 5: rebuilt was not funded by the city, although I'm sure

629
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 5: you know there will be some tax breaks there for

630
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 5: sit for ticket taxes, but the Storm Facility is completely

631
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 5: privately funded one hundred percent, and the way we funded.

632
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 5: It was the owners put in a bunch of capital.

633
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 5: We got a loan from Boeing Employees Credit Union, who's

634
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 5: one of our longstanding corporate partners, and it's really the

635
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 5: first kind of unique loan that they've ever done. And

636
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 5: then we went out and raised a little capital from

637
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 5: new investors to fund this. And you know, working a

638
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: little in real estate, I know you're always supposed to

639
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 5: be looking at property for its highest and best use.

640
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 3: And one of.

641
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 5: The ways that we've thought about this facility is this

642
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 5: is number one our practice facility for our players, so

643
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 5: they have a home and they can be there whenever

644
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 5: they need to to get the time on the court,

645
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 5: strength and conditioning, we have recovery, whatever they need. It's

646
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 5: also the place where our entire staff is going to work,

647
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 5: but no elite level athlete is going to work twenty

648
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 5: four to seven on the courts. And we have a

649
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 5: huge commitment to the City of Seattle, our greater community,

650
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 5: to do everything we can to generate if you will,

651
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 5: access to opportunity, equitable access to opportunity, and for us,

652
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 5: that means how do we get to use this amazing

653
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 5: facility to expand access to basketball? So We're developing a

654
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 5: whole youth sports program, you know, camps and clinics that

655
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,680
Speaker 5: will also be held at the facility, and we will

656
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 5: fund that through corporate partnerships. So the idea is to

657
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 5: really make sure the facility is used first and foremost

658
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 5: by our players, then by the community. It will not

659
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 5: be a you know, a community center. It will be

660
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 5: managed by the Storm, but really making sure that the

661
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 5: entire city benefits from it.

662
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 2: Feels like it's kind of how.

663
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 5: We do things. You know, we are we are the

664
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 5: It's true that we're about business and sports, but women's

665
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 5: pro sports does not exist without Title nine and without

666
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 5: the push for social change. So our Center for Basketball

667
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 5: Performance will literally be the corner where business, sports and

668
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 5: social change met.

669
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: Feels like some of the men's sports teams could learn

670
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 2: something from this, Michael Mark, Uh, they learn.

671
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: A hell of a lot from this. Are you paying

672
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: attention out there? People? Yeah? I agreed with you, Scarle

673
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: at ten thousand perc and the Storm guys obviously, well,

674
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: this season's a little tough because you lost some key players.

675
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: You lost super Bird or retired from last season, and

676
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: then Brianna Stewart went over to New York back earlier

677
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: this year. Uh, And it's it's kind of tough, Jenny,

678
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: when you lose some key players like that to keep

679
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 1: the nominates going.

680
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 5: Oh, I don't know, business life, sports, You really better

681
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 5: be ready to deal with disappointment. You know, the universe

682
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 5: doesn't really care about plans and intentions. And for anyone

683
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 5: who has big dreams, you know, the road to excellence really,

684
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 5: no matter what endeavor you're talking about, includes stops at

685
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 5: not measuring up right. You just can't get too great

686
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 5: without some without some tough spots along the road. And

687
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 5: you know that's where that's where what we're about as

688
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 5: a franchise. And I think both Brum and I are

689
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 5: about this and Don is you've got to keep learning

690
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 5: and you've got to keep growing. It's just that simple.

691
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,760
Speaker 5: And I don't really view that we have to bounce back.

692
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 5: We just have to keep moving forward, you know, incorporating

693
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 5: the lessons we learned, keeping our eyes open, looking for

694
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 5: what we've missed, what we could do differently, adjusting to

695
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 5: changes in our environment on court, off court, and of

696
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 5: course which is sometimes the hardest thing when you're down.

697
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 5: But this is why it's so great to be part

698
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 5: of a team is believing in the power, creativity and

699
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 5: execution prowess of the people you're on the road with.

700
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 5: So yeah, you know, it's true, we haven't had the

701
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 5: best year on the court, but it's been a really

702
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 5: fun year watching rookies, watching our coach get to develop

703
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 5: a new group of people, and honestly, no one likes

704
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 5: to lose. But in our first fifteen years we won

705
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 5: three championships, so twenty percent. You know how many franchises

706
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 5: can say that. So sometimes you also just can't be greedy.

707
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,480
Speaker 5: You have to be realistic.

708
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, appreciate what you have got, Lisa, I'm curious as

709
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: we talk about the valuations of women's sports teams and franchises.

710
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: They've all been going up, up up, and of course

711
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: the storm is example number one. Do you worry sometimes

712
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 2: that we might be seeing bubble like valuations of sports

713
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: franchises in women's sports as well? With all the money

714
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: that's coming in, whether it's from private equity, whether it's

715
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: from the Gulf States just bidding up sports franchises in general,

716
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 2: I don't see.

717
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 3: It as a bubble state. I mean, I think this

718
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 3: is just economics. It's like everything that happens, people are

719
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,479
Speaker 3: excited about it. There's a lot of value to bring,

720
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: and I think the extent to which you base your

721
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 3: valuations on real data and you know, real performance, I

722
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 3: think then the bubble opportunity goes away because it's real

723
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 3: money and it's you know, it's really happening out there.

724
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 3: I think the challenge in the women's side right now

725
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 3: is we're just getting started on valuations. So there aren't

726
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 3: a lot of sources that have cataloged women's sports opportunities,

727
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 3: particularly on the investment side. Perhaps no one has really

728
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: and so it's just beginning. And that's where we're in

729
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: a place where we need to get a couple more

730
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 3: teams recognized for their valuations, and that's beginning to happen.

731
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 3: It's beginning to happen in multiple sports, and I think

732
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: that flywheel is going to get going and more going

733
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 3: to be great. It's very much like MLS was about

734
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: ten years ago, when it was more in its infancy

735
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden they expanded a bit

736
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 3: and then they got a new media rights contract.

737
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: And off they went.

738
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: But again based on kind of real data, real people

739
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 3: showing up, real revenue coming in and women's sports just

740
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: needs a place to kind of collect that information, show

741
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: what the foundation can be. And I think we'll just

742
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: take off from there.

743
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: I know we're jump I jump in.

744
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 5: So the driver in men's pro sports is the same

745
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 5: as in women's which is media rights. And you are

746
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 5: going to see media rights starting to really escalate in

747
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 5: women's pro sports. And that's why I don't think this

748
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 5: is a bubble because for the first time, the fan

749
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 5: engagement and viewing numbers are skyrocketing, not just this year

750
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 5: but over really since twenty twenty. And that's the business case,

751
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 5: is what's going to happen with media rights. And next

752
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 5: year is the twenty In twenty twenty four, the NCAA

753
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 5: Women's Tournament is going to get priced, and WSL is

754
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 5: going to get priced, and then the WNBA, and then

755
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 5: you're going to be in a new place.

756
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: One thing that I am so impressed about and I'm

757
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 1: glad to see people are waking up about it. More

758
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: people are watching sports, w NBA, Pro golf. I can

759
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: go on and on and on, and you know it's

760
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: the ratings are going through the roof. And the soccer

761
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 1: team US women's soccer team, they helped also to bring

762
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: ratings for women's sports and for equal pay. And can

763
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 1: you mention a little bit about that toever Lisa or

764
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: to Jenny who would like to take it about equal

765
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: pay in sports for women?

766
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is Lisa. I'll take a stab at a

767
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 3: person and then hand it over to Jenny. You know,

768
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: I think there is an incredible upsling. Your first point

769
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 3: was more people are watching women's sports. It's totally true.

770
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: And the more media exposure we get the more the

771
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 3: more the economics of the businesses will improve. So yes,

772
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 3: you when you show it, they will watch it, that's

773
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 3: for sure. And you mentioned that same point when the business,

774
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 3: when the media shows up, the money shows up, and

775
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 3: we get much closer to the opportunity for equal pay

776
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 3: when that happens.

777
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 5: You know, women's and men's pro sports are still a

778
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 5: huge universe apart. You think the w You know, our valuation,

779
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 5: which is the highest valuation of a women's pro sports team,

780
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 5: aren't a fifty plus is probably what three percent of

781
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 5: an NBA franchise a five billion dollar valuation. So you

782
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 5: see the gap.

783
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 1: Well, hopefully that gap is going to close up very

784
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: soon because it never mind that there's a lot of

785
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: good entertainment watching the WNBA. It's you know, people need

786
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: to get on board and forgive me if you're putting

787
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: it bluntly. There's a lot of money out there to

788
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,760
Speaker 1: be made, so I hope people understand that. To Lisa

789
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: Brummel and Jenny Guilder, co owners of the Seattle Storm thing,

790
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us on the Bloomberg

791
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: Business of Sports. We really do.

792
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 5: Appreciate thanks so much for thanks so much.

793
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: Special thanks to both Lisa Brummel and Jenny Gilder for

794
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: joining us. They're co owners of the WNBA Seattle Storm.

795
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: Coming up, the US women's national soccer team will have

796
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: a new coach after their shocking World Cup exit. We'll

797
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 1: find out more next. You're listening to The Bloomberg Business

798
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 1: of Sports from Bloomberg Radio around the world. This is

799
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports show. We explored the big

800
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: money issues in the world of sports. I'm Michael Barr

801
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 1: for Scarlett Food Damian sasauur Off. This week, the US

802
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: women's national soccer team just suffered their worst World Cup

803
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 1: performance in program history, and now we're learning some of

804
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: the fallout their coach Vlatko and Danowski is out and

805
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: Fila Kilgore is now the interim coach. To take us

806
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: through the headline and what it means, we welcome, Bloomberg

807
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: Originals correspondent Vanessa Perdomo, thank you so much for DASA

808
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 1: for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports.

809
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 6: Of course we got to break this down.

810
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am just we knew it was coming, let's

811
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: put it that way. That definitely we didn't know and

812
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: he said, hey, I'm going to resign and step down.

813
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: Take us through that.

814
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I think that it was definitely inevitable after

815
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 6: what happened in this year's World Cup. Now looking at his,

816
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 6: you know, record as a head coach for these last

817
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 6: two major tournaments, he's only won three out of ten matches,

818
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 6: and for the usmen's national team, that's just pretty horrible

819
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 6: when you when you consider the fact that there were

820
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 6: two time reigning champions going into the twenty twenty you know, Olympics,

821
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 6: and then they're out early in that they you know,

822
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,279
Speaker 6: they take their place home and that and then they

823
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 6: have their earliest exit ever in the Women's World Cup

824
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 6: in the round of sixteen. So it was definitely inevitable

825
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 6: and it was kind of shocking in the way that

826
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 6: he is a well respected coach. He has a great

827
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 6: NWSL record, champion and Coach of the Year, but the

828
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 6: women's national team and at the national team level is

829
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 6: just very different.

830
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that because Vlatko and Danofsky, he

831
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 1: does have a decent resume behind that, but it just

832
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 1: didn't work out in this case. Scarlett.

833
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Andanofsky era, at least for the women's

834
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: national team. What's notable is that goals were kind of

835
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 2: hard to come by, and you saw that in the

836
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: game against Sweden, which was scoreless and they had to

837
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 2: go to penalty kicks. Why did this team have difficulty scoring?

838
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 2: This is the US women's national team.

839
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that it just really comes down to

840
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 6: when you think when you take a look at these games,

841
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 6: it really comes down to the tactical game plan that

842
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 6: just didn't really seem to be there. And then you

843
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 6: take a look at the roster that he created, and

844
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 6: a lot of you know, experts are saying he just

845
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 6: didn't have the sort of grit that it takes to

846
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 6: tell these legacy players like in Alex Morgan and and

847
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 6: Meghan Rappino that it's really just not your time anymore.

848
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 6: And I think that with Alex Morgan it's a little

849
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 6: bit tough because she is still playing at a great

850
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 6: level and she's had opportunities. But after this, after the

851
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 6: first game, and after even the second game in the

852
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 6: world in the group stage, when you saw she was

853
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 6: struggling to even really get a shot on goal. You

854
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 6: have to take good time and really adjust there, and

855
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 6: that was what didn't happen. There was no real adjustments

856
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 6: made by him in order to get some goals happening.

857
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: The future now of the women's US soccer team, what's

858
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: next for them?

859
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, so the one of the assistants, Twila Kilboura,

860
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 6: is going to take over as an interim coach. I

861
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 6: don't see her being the head coach for a prolonged

862
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 6: amount of time. They're going to have to take a

863
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 6: look at who's really available on a major level. I

864
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 6: think that. I mean, I think that everybody in the

865
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 6: world right now looks at Serena Viegman, the England team manager,

866
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 6: and think, wow, what she's done with that team and

867
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 6: what she's done as the Netherlands head.

868
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 4: Coach as well.

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Speaker 6: She's obviously a front runner, but I don't think England

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Speaker 6: is going to let her go. But also Tony Gustavson,

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Speaker 6: who's the Australia head coach, he was an assistant under

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00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 6: Jill Ellens. So that is really interesting. Because of the

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00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 6: you know, success that the US women's national team had

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00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 6: under the Jill Ellers era, it is very tempting to

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Speaker 6: you know, go back to someone who at least learned

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Speaker 6: under her, you know. And I also had success this

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Speaker 6: World Cup with Australia.

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Speaker 1: Our thanks to Bloomberg Originals correspondent and friend of the

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Speaker 1: show Vanessa Perdomo for joining us. This is the Bloomberg

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00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: Business of Sports show, but we explored the big money

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00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports on Michael Barr. You

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00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:03,280
Speaker 1: can follow me on x at Big Bar Sports.

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00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,960
Speaker 2: And you can follow me at Scarlet Foo.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. Tune in again next week for

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Speaker 1: the latest on the stories moving big money in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports

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Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Radio around the world.