1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,119 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuffworks 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, I'm Christian Sea, and I'm 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick. And hey, it's our traditional summer reading episode. 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: That's right, this is uh kind of kind of beach 6 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: reading time. Will you guys go to the beach. I'm 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: not really a beach person. Wait, I go to the beach. Well, 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, go to go to the beach. Yeah, 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: Robert goes to the beach. I like to go to 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 1: radioactive beaches and read your books, right right. Yeah, So 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: this is kind of, you know, an annual tradition here, 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: it's Stuff to Blow your Mind where we take a 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: break from the research and we talked about what we've 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: just been reading casually that we recommend our listeners go 15 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: and read for the summer. Yeah. I mean this is 16 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: the time, to your point, people are going on on vacation. 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: People like to bring I like to bring a book 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: with me on vacation if I'm whether I'm going to 19 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: the beach or not. And uh, it's also the time 20 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: when we have a lot of we're just putting together 21 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: the podcast. People are in and out, people are going 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: on vacation, so it's nice to have something we can 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: we can put together without a whole lot of extra 24 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: research involved. One thing I've discovered is that if you're 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: going on vacation, not to the beach, but say, to 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: your in laws house, it's also great to bring a 27 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: book there because you can sneak away. And I say 28 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: that as somebody who loves my in laws. I don't 29 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: have in law problems. They are the greatest people in 30 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: the world. But you're in somebody else's house every now 31 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: and then you want to sneak off to another room 32 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: and just read. Yeah. Well, And I have two thoughts 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 1: on this as well. For starters, we have so many 34 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: distractions built into our regular routine that if you just 35 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: break your routine a little bit, even by just going 36 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: on a small family trip or going to visit in laws, 37 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to break free from the shackles 38 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: of of of your life a little bit and maybe 39 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: read a bit more. That's nice. And then in general, 40 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: there's this rule of life always brings something to read, 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: because if you bring something to read, you will not 42 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: have time for it. But if you if you don't 43 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: bring a book, then you will find yourself sitting in 44 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: a in a waiting room somewhere with nothing to occupy yourself, 45 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: but you know, staring at your fingernails and wishing you 46 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: had your clippers on you, or you'll be looking at 47 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: junk on your phone and wishing you hadn't. I'm one 48 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: of those people who like overly prepares in that respect, 49 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: Like I've always got something to read, and I've also 50 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: always got like notebooks to write in, to the point 51 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: now where I've got like an absurd amount of notebooks 52 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: in my everyday bag, like because I got a field 53 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: Notes subscription. This isn't an advertisement for them, but I 54 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: gotta field Notes subscription, and now I have like six 55 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: field Notes for like all different things that are in 56 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,679 Speaker 1: my backpack at all times. Plus I'm reading constantly. Well, 57 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: until until very recently, you couldn't really have the kindle 58 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: out on the plane while you're you know, during takeoff 59 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: and landing. So I would always make sure, Okay, do 60 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: I have a physical book for that portion of the flight, 61 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: and then I can bust out the kindle for the rest. 62 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: That's smart. Yeah, yeah, you don't have a kindle yet, right, 63 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: you're still reading everything physical. I read physical books and 64 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: on my phone, so I so this is funny. The 65 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: majority of the books that I'm going to recommend today 66 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: I read on my phone, even though I still like 67 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: paper books much better. Yeah, how is that on your eyes? Though? 68 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: I mean it's not great. It was one of those 69 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: where I just wanted to start reading a book. I 70 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: didn't want to go out and buy it somewhere wait 71 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: for it to arrive, so I just got the book 72 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: and started reading or or started listening to an audio book. 73 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: I mean I do both of those. So I I 74 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: consume books digitally a lot, even though I'm much enjoy 75 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: paper books. Yeah, I enjoy them much more. Yeah. Yeah, 76 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: it was boy getting a kindle this again on an advertisement, 77 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: like any whatever e reader that doesn't like flash light 78 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: directly into your eyeballs. Man, it was a revelation for me, 79 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: Like my reading increased exponentially when I when I got that, 80 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: because I just, I don't know, there's something about it, 81 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: like it got me really back into reading again. Yeah. 82 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: I've also really enjoyed the various like free e books 83 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: offerings that are out there. Like one that comes to 84 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: mind is U Tour books. We talked about this. Yeah, 85 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: they'll do a I think they're still doing this, a 86 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: Book of the Month club where they'll just put out 87 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: an e book and you can They'll just say here, 88 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: here's the file downloaded, get it on your device. However, 89 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: you get it on your device and then you get 90 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to go one of those, which is like a novel 91 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: lette that I read recently. It wasn't free, it was cents, 92 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: so it really broke the bank. But not on my 93 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: list here, but I recommend it. Kelly Robeson, she's this 94 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: up and coming kind of sci fi horror fantasy writer, 95 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: and she wrote this story called I Think It's a 96 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: Human Stain and it is wow, really good. Yeah, but 97 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: I'm jumping ahead. I'm like, I'm already recommending stuff that 98 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: isn't on paper in front of me right here. Well, 99 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: where should we start, gentlemen? Should we start with fiction 100 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: or nonfiction? Because we're gonna roll through some fictional selections, 101 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 1: some nonfictional selections, and uh, Christian and I are gonna 102 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: bust out at least a couple of comics. I think 103 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: you have more than one. I'd have one comics selection. 104 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: I surprisingly only have one comics. But knowing me, I'll 105 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: end up talking about ten other comics by the end 106 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: of this episode. Yeah, why don't we start with the fiction? 107 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,119 Speaker 1: All right? And I think one of you guys should 108 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: go first, because my fiction is a little odd. It's 109 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: not like one thing, Joe, why don't you kick it off? Then? Alright, Well, 110 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: I've got a couple of fiction picks this year. One 111 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: is a book that is more recent I mean, actually, 112 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: I guess it's about ten years ago now, but more recent. 113 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: Another one is a classic that I just discovered for 114 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the first time this year. So I'll start with the 115 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: more recent one, and that is going to be Blind 116 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: Site by Peter Watts, which was published by Tour Books 117 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: in two thousand six. And we're just given Tour all 118 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: the love today. I'm gonna try not to interrupt you 119 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: too much, Joe, but I am currently reading this book 120 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: and and enjoying it quite a lot, so i'll I 121 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: may interject my opinions as well here and there. Well, 122 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: y'all tap me on the shoulder if I'm just gushing 123 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: to too effusively about this book. I loved this book. 124 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: I I picked up Blind Site after our interview with 125 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: our Scott Baker because in his paper on alien philosophy 126 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: or Scott Baker mentioned that there were really only two 127 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 1: books he could think of that really achieved the imagination 128 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: of a truly non anthropomorphic alien mind, and one of 129 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: the two books he named was blind Side. I've never 130 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,040 Speaker 1: heard of it before. I've never read anything by Peter Watts, 131 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: but I was like, well, I'm looking for a new 132 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: sci fi horror kind of book right now, I'll check 133 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: that out. I ordered it, and oh man, it is 134 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: so great. Uh it's it's a great example of the 135 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: themes we talked about on the show all the time. 136 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: So I think it's like Dead Center, bulls Eye stuff 137 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: to blow your mind fan kind of book. But also 138 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: it's a it's a great example of, um, this common 139 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: sci fi type story, the first contact story. I don't 140 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: want to say too much about the story, though I 141 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: will talk about some elements from the setting of the novel, 142 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: because the story, I think you should just experience the 143 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: surprises of the plot on your own. But I will 144 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: say a bit about the themes and the setting. So 145 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: Peter Watts is a Canadian marine biologist turned science fiction author, 146 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: and his science background, I would say, really, really comes 147 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: through in the novel because it's a novel about scientific hypotheses. 148 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: Characters are scientists and are trying to solve scientific problems 149 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: in the in the plot of the story, and it 150 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: also deals with these fascinating questions about the biological origins 151 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: of consciousness. I would say it's my favorite kind of 152 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: science fiction novel because I want to picture there are 153 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: like four squares in a grid, and I would call 154 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: this in the square that I would call wild hard. 155 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: So you could define you could divide science fiction into 156 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: hard and soft, where hard sci fi incorporates scientific themes 157 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: and it tries to stay true to real physics and biology. 158 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: And then you've got soft sci fi has you know, 159 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: unexplained magical elements, and that's fine, but that's its own thing. 160 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: But then i'd separated also into dry versus wild. Dry 161 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: sci fi deals with the standard themes of drama and fiction, 162 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: familiar off interpersonal relationships and all that. Wild sci fi 163 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: deals with unpredictable, bizarre creatures and scenarios. And so this 164 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: this is in the corner of both hard and wild. 165 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: It's absolutely bonkers, but at the same time it's extremely 166 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: scientifically conscientious and concerned with scientific accuracy and plausibility. So well, 167 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: this is I think would you agree with I would agree, 168 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: And I think at this point you need to mention, uh, 169 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: the plot element and one particular character that initially hooked 170 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: me on it, Like, I think it's probably the first 171 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: thing you told me about it. Yeah, I would say. 172 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: My first thing to sell a stuff to blow your 173 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: mind fan about this book is that it's a space adventure, 174 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: hard sci fi, first contact book that has vampires, and 175 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: I'm on board. So it's Life Force. No, no, it's 176 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: not quite Life Force. So Life Force is definitely not 177 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: hard Side. Right, So you're out there going like, wait 178 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: a minute, vampires, Okay, I thought you said this was 179 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: hard sci fi. I would say it is. There's no fantasy, 180 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: there's no supernatural elements. Watts does an amazingly good job 181 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: of making vampires biologically plausible. And what he does is 182 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: he envisions them as an extinct branch of hominids that 183 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 1: went extinct in the place to see an epoch, uh, 184 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: and their cousins of Homo sapiens and Neanderthals. But they've 185 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: got all these interesting inherited glitches and features in their body. 186 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: For one thing, they are obligate cannibals, like they have 187 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: to consume other hominids because they need a necessary protein 188 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: that's generated in hominid bodies, and they can't generate it themselves, 189 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: so they've got to eat other hominids to survive. This 190 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: is why they're, you know, feeding on us. Of course, 191 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: this they eat, they're not drinking blood. They literally are 192 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: eating people. Now, I think it's more like they would 193 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: just eat people. They might drink your blood too. But 194 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: the genesis of all vampire myths, though, got you. So 195 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: how does this hold up in comparison. I'm looking to 196 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: Robert here because we did an episode on Germo del 197 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: Toro's The Strain, which is also very heavily scientifically influenced 198 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: vampire creation. I would say that the major difference here 199 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: is that in The Strain, they put a lot of 200 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: effort into imagining a very monstrous um vampire species that 201 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: is essentially parasitic in in its origin and in blind Sight, 202 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: Peter Watts puts a tremendous amount of effort into creating 203 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: It's still monstrous in a way, it's still inhuman, but 204 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: it's a very very human vampire in well, that that's 205 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: where it gets really interesting because he spends so much 206 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: time just talking about how would a creature like this think, 207 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: how would it uh. One of the examples that comes 208 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: up is it's uh, the vampire character doesn't speak much, 209 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: or when it does speak, if he speaks very briefly, 210 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: and it makes a comparison to two orcas, to transient predatory, 211 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: transient predator, and how the the ones that prey upon 212 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: mammals speak less and are therefore, you know, creating less 213 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: noise that would scare off potential prey. So even though 214 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: this vampire is a member of the crew, it's still 215 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: behaving and thinking like an evolved predator. Yeah, yeah, and 216 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: it's so great, I mean, and they so they respond 217 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: to it the same way you would respond in the 218 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: presence of a predator, Like they feel the predatory gaze 219 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: as if there's like a lion sitting across the table 220 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: from them talking to them. Um, and it's all it's 221 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: there's so many other little features he comes up with 222 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: that are just fascinating, Like they have to go into 223 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: these undead hibernation periods because of course, if you're just 224 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: eating humans all the time, you run out of food, 225 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: so they have to slow down their metabolism another thing 226 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: they've covered the show before. Yeah. Uh. And then so 227 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: they're harmed by looking at crosses. How does he make 228 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: that scientifically plausible? Where he gives He gives them this 229 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: inherited neurological glitch because perpendicular intersecting right angles almost never 230 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: occur in nature, and they've got this problem where when 231 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: they look at one, they go into seizures. And that's clever, 232 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: and that's kind of that's essentially one of the main 233 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: reasons they went extinct, right, is not because human were 234 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: able to really outsmart them, because they are brilliant. There 235 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: a rise of Christianity, well just the rise of human 236 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: and you can't go into a human city and they can't. 237 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: So if they okay, I see, So even if they're 238 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: just like looking at a house that's spilt with the 239 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: right angles, they start having these seizures. Yeah, wow, okay, 240 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: and then they also, like another detail he brings up 241 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 1: is um how they can they can hold two separate 242 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: worldviews in their mind at the same time. Yeah, they're 243 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: like a they're like a multi core parallel processor and 244 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: they can sort of divide their attention between solving multiple 245 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: problems at the same time, they've got a divisible internal brain. 246 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: This is not the example wats used, but I'm gonna 247 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: tweak it. You know, the what is it the rabbit? 248 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: What is the optical illusion? Sometimes it looks like a 249 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: rabbit the duck, The rabbit the duck. The vampires can 250 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: look at the rabbit the duck and they see a 251 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: rabbit in the duck at the same time. Is it 252 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: the Necker cube? Yes, that's the example. You know about 253 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: this Christian right, Well, it's a It's a three dimensional 254 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: illustration of a cube, like the wire our cube, and 255 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: your mind, while you're looking at it will switch back 256 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: and forth from seeing it as a cube oriented in 257 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: one direction to a cube oriented the other direction. I 258 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: do know what you're talking about. I just didn't know 259 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: that's what it was called. Okay, So a human looks 260 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: at that and your mind is naturally switching you back 261 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: and forth. You see it one way, then you see 262 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: it the other way. The vampires in this novel can 263 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: see both cubes at once. One more thing I wanted 264 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: to terrify. Yeah, they sound like apex predators totally. I'd 265 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: say this novel it has really strong horror elements and 266 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: they are of a very interesting kind, because I would 267 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: say it's a cousin to the kind of cosmic horror 268 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: you'd see in something like Lovecraft and related works, where 269 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: there's this idea that there are vast powerful forces at 270 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: work in the universe and you're just a speck and 271 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: you have no reason to think that these vast powerful 272 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: forces are sympathetic to you at all. Corror. Yeah, and 273 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: so in Lovecraft these are like alien god beings and 274 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: these pantheons and things like that. In blind Sight, I'd 275 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: say the same thematic role is played by the laws 276 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: of biological evolution, Like the novel actually leverages real facts 277 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: about biology and extending them into thinking about space to 278 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: fill the role of cosmic dread brought on by the 279 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,199 Speaker 1: elder gods in love Craft. That sounds very nice. Yeah, 280 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: I need to check this book out. Yeah, there, this 281 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: is one of those books. I'm reading it in in 282 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: the book format, and uh I keep making notes uh 283 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: in in my device as I see that. See it 284 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: tie into various topics we've covered, Like there's a scene 285 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: where there are a number of scenes in the book 286 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: where characters are are hit with very strong magnetic fields 287 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: and it's causing hallucinations and also, um, like a god helmet. Yeah, 288 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: it's like a god helmet. There. One of the characters 289 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: sees the creator God and goes berserk over it. Another 290 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: character essentially ends up having the Cotard's delusion, believing that 291 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: she does not exist anymore. It's it. I would say 292 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 1: that that in the portion I've read of it, the 293 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: cognitive stuff, like all the characters in it are so 294 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: cognitively trans human, so delightfully cognitively trans human. Um. But 295 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: but I don't want to steal too much of your 296 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: thunder here. Well, no, I just I think I'm about 297 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: ready to move on. But I just want to say 298 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: I think we haven't even touched on half of the 299 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: amazingly fascinating ideas in this book. So it's just jammed 300 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: with with stuff to contemplate really cool, interesting ideas. If 301 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: you're into science, if you're into big questions and cosmic 302 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: mysteries of existence, this is an excellent book. I think 303 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: you'd really enjoy. And there's not there is not a 304 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: quote unquote normal character in the book. Like now every 305 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: character is has some sort of bizarre cognitive ability or transformation. 306 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: Like there's a character with multiple personalities intentionally created in 307 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: her head team, like in her right so very eclipse phase, 308 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: where so they've got like the ability to sort of 309 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: sleeve multiple identities into a body. One character does, uh, 310 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: eventually maybe more than one, but yeah, another character has 311 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: the main character has lost lost half his brain to 312 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: an infection radical hemisphere ectomy. He had. He suffered from 313 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: seizures when he was a child, and they were so 314 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 1: bad that they did this procedure where they remove one 315 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: hemisphere of the brain and that does stop the seizures, 316 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: but it also has lots of side effects. Yeah. So 317 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: it's it's like that level of of creativity in this 318 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: book that that I think is just really really amazing. 319 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: I thought one more fact I want to say, and 320 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: then we can move on. This book also does something 321 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: that I've never seen done before. Maybe somebody else does it, 322 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: but I think it's great. You always hear the singularitarians 323 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: being so excited about uploading our consciousness into computers, and 324 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: that's always interpreted as and that's the end, that's the 325 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: end of history. We just upload our consciousness into computers 326 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: and then it's just heavenly bliss in a virtual environment 327 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: for all time. And we don't need to worry about 328 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: anything else. This book incorporates that as a historical event 329 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: people start being able to upload their minds into virtual heavens, 330 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: and then says, actually, that's not the end of history. 331 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: That just happens at some point and things continue going on. 332 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: What would be the consequences of that? And uh, and 333 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: I love it. The way he deals with it is 334 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: really interesting and oh yeah, like there are elements of yes, 335 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: we've had were post singularity, but we we have difficulty 336 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: communicating with the machines and understanding each other. You have 337 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: to have individuals whose whole role is to sort of 338 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: serve as an arbitrator between these two factions. It is 339 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: he is, he's sort of depicting post singularity, but it's 340 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: not a he's not sanguine about the singularity and its 341 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: effects on our lives. It's more kind of like, here's 342 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: just one more radically weird complication and human experience. Yeah, 343 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: and I seem to recall to that, like there are 344 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: a few areas where we haven't pushed into like full 345 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: singularity situations, such as the digitization of consciousness. Like I 346 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: think the individuals who are in that heaven still have 347 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: to have their body or at least part of it 348 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: on file somewhere right, Yeah, squeezed into tenually smaller and 349 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: smaller drawers. This reminds me of have you guys ever 350 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: read any Charles Stross? A lot of his stuff kind 351 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: of treats this singularity. This is funny. Charles Stross blurbed 352 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: the heck out of this. Apparently Charles Stross loved blind Son. Yeah, 353 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: so that's why it reminds me. Also, is Peter Watts 354 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: a pseudonym? That's his real name, because Peter Watts is 355 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: the the name of the character on Millennium that Terry 356 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: o Quinn played. Yeah, just a fun coincidence. Terryo Quinn 357 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: was in Millennium. Oh yeah, Terry Quinn was like a regular. 358 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: He wasn't in every episode, but he was. He was 359 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: like essentially like Leans Hendrickson's like Millennium group partner slash 360 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: front of me. Okay, well, y'all have to stop me, 361 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: or we have I have to stop myself. We some 362 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 1: somehow this has gotta stop where I'm just gonna keep 363 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: gushing about this book. Let's let's get your fiction pick 364 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: in here, all right. Well, um, maybe maybe I'm a 365 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: bit set in my ways here, but I decided to 366 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: not shock anyone into feature an Ian M. Banks culture novel. Yeah, 367 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: but you know, I think we're like N. M. Banks 368 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: is like best like commercial service. Maybe. So, I mean, 369 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: it's not the only book I read, but I have 370 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: to say I do love them, and I kind of 371 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: resist the urge to really just drive through them all 372 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: and just read all of them, because we're not going 373 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: to get any more of them since an M. Banks 374 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: it's no longer with us. But I generally read one 375 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: a year, and it's always it's always a pleasure. Um. 376 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: And then there are always so many stuff to blow 377 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: your mind aligned themes that pop up in in these books. 378 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: How many are there total? I want to say there, Um, 379 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: it depends on how you count on because I think 380 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: there's seven or eight that are considered culture novels. But 381 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,919 Speaker 1: some are are sort of clear culture culture novels that 382 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,679 Speaker 1: are you know, definitely involving members of the culture, and 383 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: then others it's a case where okay, this seems to 384 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: be a novel that's taking place in the same universe. Yeah, 385 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: and that that that those varying levels of awareness actually 386 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: come come into play in this book. The book is 387 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: uh is Matter. So the book concerns the shell world 388 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: of Sersamon, which is a titanic artificial planet that contains 389 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: nested concentric spheres internally lit by tiny thermonuclear stars. So 390 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: in the book we learned that it was built by 391 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: a mysterious long dead race known as the Veil for 392 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: reasons unknown. Uh. There there are multiple shell worlds spread 393 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: throughout the galaxy in the Culture universe, but it's thought 394 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: that the structures were originally intended to be fluid filled 395 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: and utilized as a means of projecting some manner of 396 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: of shielding around the entire galaxy. Now unknown if that 397 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: shielding would have been to keep something out or to 398 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: keep something in. Uh. You know, it's hard to question 399 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: the ways of the ancients, right, But anyway, it was 400 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: never completed, and in the ages that followed you have 401 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: various space fearing races coming in, exploring it, taking control 402 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: of it. And now various layers of this thing are 403 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: home to implanted ecosystems, and two of these contain humanoids, 404 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: feudal pre industrial humanoid races engaged in wars of conquest, 405 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: while foster civilizations look on like different alien beings. One 406 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: of them, they're just called the oct because they're kind 407 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: of cephalopodic. Wait now, if you said this, I missed it. 408 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: Do the do the people inside the shell worlds know 409 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: they're in the shell world or do they just think 410 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: they're in the world. That's one of the really interesting 411 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: aspects of this book because the three main characters of 412 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: humanoid characters are members of the Royal House of Sorrow 413 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: and one of these internal levels that's again in this 414 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: pre industrial feudal age. But they're not They're not living 415 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: in complete ignorance of the world beyond them. Like they 416 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: they know that the oct or an alien species that 417 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: looks after them. They know that they live in a 418 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: shell world and that there's a greater universe beyond. But 419 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: at the same time, they they believe that their god 420 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: lives in the center of the shell world and uh, 421 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: and they're able to have like they're able to sort 422 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: of think magically, to have sort of magical thinking about 423 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: these greater powers while also believing that they are rooted 424 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: in more of a logical universe. So through throughout the 425 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: book he does a great job of exploring this question, 426 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: what would it be like to exist in a society 427 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: like this to to know uh, to know their aliens, 428 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: to know that there's a there's advanced science that your 429 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: people can't even uh, you know, graphs that you don't 430 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: even have it, like a germ theory of of of disease. 431 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: But yet to know that there are spaceships that travel 432 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: around inside your shell world. Um, and then how would 433 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: you and then how do you understand the the the 434 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: universe beyond your shell world? Because the problem is like 435 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 1: their cosmology is built upon this these layers within this sphere, 436 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: and so it's even more complex for them to try 437 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: and grasp this greater universe beyond. Now that makes me 438 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: think about sort of the consequences of like what we 439 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: see in Star Trek with the prime directive. You know, 440 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: they always say like, don't interfere and try to help 441 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 1: a less advanced species, uh, because you'd just be messing 442 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: up their way of life and their natural evolution through history. 443 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: And I often look at that and say, oh why not, 444 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: why don't we just come in and teach them about 445 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: spaceships and stuff like that. But you can imagine the 446 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: trouble that could be caused with this radical disconnect where 447 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: you don't have the scientific foundations already existing and suddenly 448 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: you're just aware of advanced technology. Yeah, and banks explore 449 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: some of this because you have these these various alien 450 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 1: races that are watching these feudal societies and essentially setting 451 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: back and enjoying their wars of conquest. And at the 452 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 1: same time, they're not supposed to get too involved. There 453 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: are there are laws involved that are keeping them from 454 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, showing up and handing over advanced technology. And uh, 455 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: and I don't want to spoiling anything in the plot, 456 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: but essentially, uh, it seems to be the case that 457 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: someone has violated one of these these laws. Uh. It's 458 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: it's it's a book where the plot, it initially seems 459 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: pretty simple because within the shell world, you have a 460 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: just king who's who's killed by a new server, and 461 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: then you have the three children of the king who 462 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: have to deal with it. Like one child witnesses the murder. 463 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: He's not a child anymore, he's had grown up. Uh, 464 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: the witnesses the murder and is on the run. And 465 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: then the youngest son is there um uh you know, 466 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: left is the air. And then you have the daughter 467 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: who has actually left uh the shell world and now 468 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: is a member of the culture. And of course the 469 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: culture uh with a capital c is is the the 470 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: inter planetary, interstellar society at the core of most of 471 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: these culture books, and they're what I guess you would say, 472 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: hum an anarchist, utopian society post scarcity. And yeah, and 473 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: one of the details that comes up in this book 474 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: is that so the AI s are each a ship. 475 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: So these show run the culture essentially and they have 476 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: converse with one another make decisions, but each one's operating 477 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: system is built from the ground up, like it evolves 478 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: from the ground up. That protects them from being like 479 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: rapidly infected by anything. I think you just answered one 480 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: of my questions about this. But it sounds like you're 481 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: reading this book through the perspective of multiple cultures. Right. 482 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: It's not like there's one character that we follow that's 483 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: only in the culture and not in the show world. 484 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: You're getting perspectives from all of them. Well, there are three, 485 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: the three main characters all are rooted in in the 486 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: House of Sorrow, but you do encounter various other individuals 487 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: who are like there's a there's a character that was 488 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 1: maybe once a humanoid and now as a essentially this 489 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: metallic bush kind of a creature, like very trans human 490 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: um Verry David Lynch. Yeah. I mean that's one of 491 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: the great things about Banks sci fi is that he 492 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: deals with some very serious, uh science fiction topic, you know, 493 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: some very lofty ideas. There's a whole there's a whole 494 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: bit in this and really the the title itself refers 495 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: to uh section in it where they're they're talking about 496 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: simulations in the theory that that we live within a simulation, 497 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: that this is all computer simulation. And so they talk 498 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: about that like whether how do we know that we 499 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: are matter? How do we know that we are the 500 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: we're like the prime reality and not some created reality 501 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: for another's amusement. Uh, And then they agreed Deckard together, well, 502 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,719 Speaker 1: and then there's gonna be some sort of absurd punchline here. 503 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,120 Speaker 1: And I mean it's not I don't want to paint 504 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: it like it's discworld or anything, but there is a 505 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: there is a goodhearted silliness in a lot of of 506 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: the culture series that I think, uh, you know, propels 507 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: one on. There's an optimism there too. So what are 508 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: the chances that Hollywood is eyeing this as like a 509 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: big like franchise property. It sounds right for turning it 510 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: into some kind of media property, since it's got all 511 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: these different books and Enim Banks is so beloved as 512 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: an author. I don't know. I have not heard any 513 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: concrete plans to adapt any of the books, but there's 514 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: some there's some lovely smaller scale books that in the 515 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: series that I think would work. Wonders such as The 516 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: Player of Games, which I think I've talked about on 517 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: this podcast in the past before. But it's about a 518 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: cultural operative who has to infiltrate in an effect and 519 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: alien society, whose whole society has built around a single 520 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: super complex board game essentially, so they have to bring 521 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: him in a Master of Games Jonathan maybe, yeah, maybe 522 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: Jonathan will play We'll play him in the movie. So anyway, 523 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: I highly recommend matter. I I'm I'm torn if it's 524 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: an ideal starting point for the culture series, but that's 525 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: one of the ultimate beautiful things about it is that 526 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: this is not like an eight seven or eight volumes saga, 527 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: like each one can stand on its own, and each 528 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: one may refer to the overall time line, um, you know, 529 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: a little bit or a lot depending on what the 530 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 1: plot is, and each one I'm assuming does like a 531 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: pretty good job of immersing you in this world and 532 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: like kind of getting you settled into it before it 533 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 1: proceeds with its narrative. Yeah, yeah, yeah that they do 534 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: this one. This one is I think does an especially 535 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: good job because you have characters that are at home 536 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: in certain a certain layer, within a certain world, within 537 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: this larger reuniverse, and you're able to sort of work 538 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: out from there. Cool. Yeah, it's uh, my reading list 539 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: grows by the day. I I really don't think that 540 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to ever be able to read everything that's 541 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: been recommended to me. But uh, Ian Banks, I have 542 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: The Wasp Factory sitting in my pile next to the 543 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: bed that start Yeah. Um, but that's not one of 544 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: his sci fi novel that was his for He had 545 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: written some sci fi novels and he he had difficulty 546 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: finding publishers, and so he said, well, heck, I'm going 547 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: to write a kind of a literary horror tale. So 548 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: he wrote The Wasp Factory and it's a tremendous hit, 549 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: and it is a it's a tremendous um. It's kind 550 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: of slightly surreal horror read. But one of the things 551 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: that makes me want to read The Wasp Factory. Is 552 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: that it's got a poll quote on the outside of 553 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 1: the book where you normally have stuff like, you know, 554 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: a tour to force, and the poll quote says something 555 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: like utter trash, absolutely depraved. Yeah, it's kind of depraved. 556 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: Once I finished that, then I'm gonna then I'll probably 557 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: add a culture book to that stack, and then it'll 558 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: be five years after that that I get to that. 559 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to finish that niff the Lean book 560 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: that you love Me Borrow a year ago. Well, that's 561 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: a good one, which I have also recommended all over 562 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: the place. Michael Shay al Right, well, speaking of literary horror. 563 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Speaking of Michael, what's your fiction selection? Yeah, so I 564 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: don't have one fiction selection. I have many. I have 565 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: undergone a project for the summer. My wife, for my birthday, 566 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: because I asked her to do this, got me subscriptions 567 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: to a bunch of genre magazines that have short fiction 568 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: in them. So I was like, you know what, I 569 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: really I know about all this stuff that's going on. 570 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: I write fiction. I should try to immerse myself and 571 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: what people are currently publishing. So here I'll hand you 572 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: guys the two physical copies that I brought in. You 573 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: can take a peek while I'm going through these, But 574 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: I have been reading, uh, and have subscriptions now to 575 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: The Dark Nightmare Magazine, Apex Magazine, The Magazine of Fantasy 576 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: and Science Fiction, Clark's World, Light Speed, Cemetery Dance, Black Static, 577 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: and The Lovecraft Easing. Uh. And if that sounds like 578 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: a lot, it is. I had no idea how much 579 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: I was getting into and how much I was gonna 580 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: try to keep up with. But yeah, the basic idea 581 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: was that I subscribed to these so I could be 582 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: more aware of what is publishing within this ecosystem, Who 583 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: are the new voices in genres like horror and fantasy 584 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: and sci fi, and what are their concerns. I felt 585 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: like I had a responsibility as a writer to to 586 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: keep up with what my peers were doing, but also 587 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: to support their work financially. Uh. So the copies I 588 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: just gave you, I have physical subscriptions to Cemetary Dance 589 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: and Black Static. Everything else is digital, so uh, you know, 590 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 1: it actually only ends up being like something like twenty 591 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: dollars a month for all of those subscriptions, which is 592 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of nice. And uh, there aren't as many avenues 593 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: I think for beginning writers to break in anymore. Robert 594 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: and I were talking about this earlier this morning, and 595 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: to get paid on top of that, right as there 596 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: used to be. So I decided I'm going to try 597 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: to support these and do my best to keep up. 598 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 1: Although wow, I'm I'm already way behind. It is a 599 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: ton to keep up with. I don't think I'll ever 600 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: be able to read all of it. I've already got 601 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: a stack. I've only had it for three months. I've 602 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: already got a stack of twenty plus issues to catch 603 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: up on. But I've been trying to read like one 604 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: short story a day, and then I again have a 605 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: little field Notes notebook that I tracked the stories in, 606 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: and you know, track which ones I like the most, 607 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: so I can keep an eye out for those authors 608 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: in the future. Cool. Yeah, I mean, I I have 609 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: a I have a lot of thoughts about the UH, 610 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: the the independent publishing industry, and and and the various 611 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: horror publications that still survived this day and some of 612 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: the new ones that have come out. I mean, I've 613 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: I've I've written fiction. I do enough for a while, 614 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: so I'm familiar with with these, but certainly, uh, certainly 615 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: some legendary titles that a Cemetery Dance has been around 616 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: for quite a while, and I think that's I remember 617 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: when I was first discovering like Joe Lansdale and Poppy 618 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: z Bright, I remember having their short story collections and 619 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: I was always curious, like, where did these? Anytime I 620 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: look at a short story collection, I want to see 621 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: where things published originally? Curiosity and Cemetery Dance was always 622 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: on the list. That was how I picked this group. 623 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 1: I basically have been reading a lot of anthologies in 624 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: the last couple of years. Usually it's like the best 625 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: Horror of the year, the best dark fiction of the 626 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: year or whatever, and so I would go through those 627 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: as bibliographies essentially and say, like, all right, where was 628 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: all this stuff published originally? Cool, I'll go subscribe to 629 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: that stuff now. Um. Surprisingly, yeah, it's not all that expensive. 630 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: They're about like two or three dollars an issue. If 631 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: you get them digitally, they get auto delivered to my Kindle. 632 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: I don't even have to download them. Like all of 633 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: a sudden. It's like at the on the first day 634 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: of a month, there's like, you know, ten new magazine 635 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: sitting on my Kindle. Um. There's some weird formatting issues though. 636 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: The Dark in particular, like for some reason isn't Kindle ready, 637 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: so it won't show up on my Kindle. But I 638 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: can read it on like the Amazon app, on like 639 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: a phone or a tablet or something like that. So 640 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: sometimes I gotta switch devices or whatever. But it's fine, 641 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: the first world problem. The cool thing about Clark's World 642 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: that I'd like to point out is that it also 643 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: republishes classic works by you know, really well known established 644 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: sci fi fantasy authors. Uh So, like, for instance, James 645 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: Tiptree Jr. There was a story by him her in 646 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: uh in one of the issues that I was reading. 647 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: So I don't know how familiar you guys are with 648 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: James Tiptree Jr. But it's a pseudonym for Alice Bradley Sheldon, 649 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: uh And she wrote sci fi from the sixties to 650 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: the eighties, but she took on a male student in 651 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: persona to make it easier to get published. She really 652 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: wrote some amazing stuff, one of the greats, really, and 653 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: she's got this huge body of work to explore. So 654 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: it was cool that just like kind of popped up 655 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: there in Clark's World. Uh, there's also nonfiction in these, 656 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: so there's a lot of stuff that looks at the 657 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: industry as a whole. What's going on with publishing. Uh, 658 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: what kind of awards are coming out? You know, brom Stoker, 659 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: Shirley Jackson. Actually, as we're recording this, the Shirley Jackson 660 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 1: Awards were just awarded like two two or three days ago, 661 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: I think for sixteen nominees, and uh, they talk about 662 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: genre films related literary criticism. It's really interesting. Uh so 663 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: my favorite so far. I've been reading these for three 664 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: months now trying to keep up. There's three stories that 665 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: I want to call out in particular. One is Kiss 666 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: the Mouthless Girl by Giovanni de Fio, and that was 667 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: in Nightmare of May of this year. You were telling 668 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: me about this, Yeah, yeah, this one really stuck out 669 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: to me. And then there was The Witches Hour or 670 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: just Witches Hour by Shannon Connor Winward, which was in 671 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 1: the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction again May, the 672 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: May issue. And The Lark Ascending, which is a story 673 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,760 Speaker 1: by Samantha Henderson that was in the Dark Again published 674 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: in May. Uh, Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction did 675 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, like that's where all the Dark Tower stuff 676 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: was published originally, Like The Gun Slinger originally came out 677 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: as five short stories in the Magazine of Fantasy and 678 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: Science Fiction over the course of the late seventies going 679 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: into the eighties. Yeah. So uh that magazine, I mean, 680 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: it's been around since the forties. It has like this 681 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: amazing track record of of talent that it's Foster Stephen 682 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: King eventually worked up to that after all the all 683 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: the Cavalier, Yeah, Stephen King is the opposite. Like if 684 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: you go and you look at like Nightshift and Skeleton 685 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: Crew and you're like, where was this originally published, and 686 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: it's all like Cavalier and like Penthouse and stuff like that. Yeah, 687 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: that was back in the day where you could make 688 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: money writing short fiction and just selling them to skin Mag's. Yeah. Uh, 689 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: you know a publication that I'll throw in there is 690 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: being a pretty good one if you're into if you're 691 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: into fantasy, particularly dark fantasy. Grim Dark Magazine, Oh yeah, yeah, 692 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: that was also on my list. I ended up not 693 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: going with it because that's like a very specific genre, right, 694 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: grim dark is a its own like sub genre, is 695 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: my understanding. It depends how you're talking to ye. Do 696 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: people not consider George R. Martin an example of grim dark? 697 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: Like the Throne stuff? Think sure, but basically their whole 698 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: lengthy like Facebook arguments like is this author grim dark? Nope, 699 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: not grim dark enough for me. Yeah, it gets a 700 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: bit As with any genre classification and stub genre classification, 701 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: it can get a bit silly. So what is it? 702 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,399 Speaker 1: It's it's fantasy where characters swear and they're mean and immoral. Well, 703 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: it's like I think graphically violent, right, is part of it? 704 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,319 Speaker 1: Though this is the whole. These are all discussion points 705 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,959 Speaker 1: in the argument. But because I remember, like I wrote 706 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,359 Speaker 1: a short story. But both of you guys have read 707 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: this short story I wrote last year and I sent 708 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: it around to a couple of friends, and our buddy 709 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: Michael we Hunt, who's an established writer who's published in 710 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: some of these magazines, was like, it's a it's a 711 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,799 Speaker 1: little bit grim dark. I don't know if you're going 712 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: to be able to get it published some of these 713 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't even know what that is. 714 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,279 Speaker 1: And then that's how I learned. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 715 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: I guess grim dark is just kind of like, you know, 716 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: a lot of it's nihilistic. Um. Yeah, that sounds like 717 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: Grim Dark Magazine in particular. I wonder the reason I 718 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: started picking it up is because our Scott Baker has 719 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 1: had a couple of short stories said in his uh 720 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: his universe in that those books, So we should throw 721 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: that out for people who haven't listened to the Art 722 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: Scott Baker episode. So, uh, that universe is the Second 723 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: Apocalypse socca yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, And these are dark 724 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: fantasy books that he has what like at least like 725 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: eight of or something like that, and it's a dark, dark, 726 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 1: philosophically charged fantasy epic. Yeah. Again, another thing that's in 727 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,280 Speaker 1: my stack. I have the first book in that series, 728 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: but I haven't gotten to it yet. Also recommended to 729 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: me by a friend of the show, E. C. Steiner. Yeah. 730 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,600 Speaker 1: A lot of people whose opinions I respect to love 731 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,919 Speaker 1: that stuff. So that's my fiction for the summer, Holy Cow. 732 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: Other than comics, of course, But yeah, I've I've been 733 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: diving into the deep end. I also just finished rereading 734 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: Stephen King's for the summer, but that is not on 735 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: my recommendation list. I love that book, but I don't 736 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: know that I necessarily think it's for everybody to revisit. 737 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: It's a huge Alright, So we're gonna take a quick break, 738 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: and when we come back, we'll jump into some non 739 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: fictional selections. Uh, and then after that we'll probably take 740 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: another commercial break, and then we will discuss a few 741 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: comics and one final fiction selection from Joe. Thank Thank Alright, 742 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: we're back. Okay, So nonfiction, if I know you guys, 743 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: there's some pretty dense stuff because you, especially Joe, Joe 744 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: loves some like really dense scientific nonfiction material but also accessible. 745 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't know what you mean by Dent's. I mean, 746 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,720 Speaker 1: I wouldn't like, I'm not recommending like textbooks or anything. Okay, 747 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a textbook. Now. My pick this year 748 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: is The Fundamentals of Physics, Volume two. Now it's a 749 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: book by Ed Young, of course, one of my favorite 750 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: science writers and has been for years. The book is 751 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: his twenty sixteen book from HarperCollins called I Contain Multitudes 752 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,399 Speaker 1: The Microbes Within Us in a Grander View of Life. Now. 753 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,360 Speaker 1: Ed Young is, as you've mentioned before on the show, 754 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: somebody if you're into our podcast, worth following on Twitter 755 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: because he has some really interesting insights. So yeah, he. 756 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: I mean, he's great on Twitter. Just if you ever 757 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: see an article by him. He writes for different publications 758 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: that he writes for The Atlantic, for National Geographics sometimes, 759 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: but anytime you see an article by him, it's worth 760 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,080 Speaker 1: checking out. It's usually going to be about some really 761 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 1: interesting feature of biology that you've never been aware of before. 762 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: And he's one of the real great biology writers out 763 00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: there right now. He's one of those dudes that like 764 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: every time we're researching, like I'd say, like once a 765 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: month when we're researching, like something will just paying on 766 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: the radar and it will be an ed Young. Uh So. 767 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,839 Speaker 1: I Contain Multitudes is about microbial life, and it's one 768 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: of the best science books I've read in a long time. 769 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: I'm actually hoping we can talk to Ed Young on 770 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: the show sometimes. It'd be really great, and I've I've 771 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: emailed with him once, but I want to get back 772 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: in touch with them. Hopefully we can bring him on. 773 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: We'll see. But like I said, he's been one of 774 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: my favorite science writers for years, and I think this 775 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: book is just gold. It hits the sweet spot of 776 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: combining getting it right with making it fascinating, which sometimes 777 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 1: you feel like science writers tend to spill more over 778 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: onto one side of that than the other. He can 779 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: do both. He's really good at getting the point across 780 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: and being accessible. Yeah. Um, so, based on the title, 781 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,879 Speaker 1: you might guess that I Contain Multitudes because you contain them. 782 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,799 Speaker 1: Is about the microbiota within your body, and that is 783 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: a major part of the book, but it's only one 784 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: part of the story. One of the main themes that 785 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,240 Speaker 1: I took away from the book is that it's about 786 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: the many ways in which this is not a world 787 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: of plants and animals with some microbes scattered around it. 788 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: This is a world of microbes. And if you were 789 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: just to communicate from a purely biological perspective with an 790 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: alien species, what is Earth life like? People would usually say, well, 791 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,960 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's like humans. They've got a head 792 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: with eyes and aren't. No, you'd be talking about the 793 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 1: microbes because that is what the majority of Earth life is. 794 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: We didn't put them on the Golden plates at all. Yeah, 795 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: I mean we should have that, that is, Yeah, that 796 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 1: is what's representative of Earth life. And so this is 797 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,520 Speaker 1: a mic anything about bacteria that surely they must that's 798 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: an interesting question. We should look at in the future. Well, 799 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,240 Speaker 1: they did have carvings of naked humans, and those naked 800 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: humans are crawling with bacteria, naked bacteria. It depends what 801 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: the the alien encountering it knows about life. Yeah, we 802 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: assume that the aliens that are encountering it are also 803 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,280 Speaker 1: going to be anthropo, more fick and subsequently have eyes 804 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 1: and look at these etchings on a gold plate anyway, 805 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: might feel them or yeah, you know it's but if 806 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: they have harsh on voyage, are too bad. But if 807 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: they evolved from microbial life, and I guess we to 808 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: assume they did, that's our only modeled and they would 809 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: surely look at a human being on a plate and say, oh, 810 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,879 Speaker 1: this is what evolved from microbial life on their world, right, 811 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: So okay, back to your ed Young book. Yeah, and 812 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,360 Speaker 1: so well, that is one thing we can sort of 813 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,920 Speaker 1: expect that ed Young doesn't talk about this much. But 814 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,440 Speaker 1: it's like, if we encounter life somewhere else in the universe, 815 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: one thing we can almost certainly be sure of is 816 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: that it evolved from single celled organisms. And in what 817 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: direction it evolved. You know, it's hard to guess. I 818 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: might go in all kinds of ways. But single celled 819 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: organisms are going to be the rule for life in 820 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,879 Speaker 1: the galaxy, and they're definitely the rule for life on Earth. 821 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: Microbes are are not just a thing that we interact 822 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: with on Earth. But one of the great things about 823 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: his book is it shows all the hundreds of ways 824 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:03,360 Speaker 1: that microbes are so integrally a part of our existence. 825 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: It almost doesn't even make sense to think of ourselves 826 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: as humans with microbes living in and on us. We 827 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: need them for our lives. We've co evolved with them. 828 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: The more we learn, the more it becomes clear they 829 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,360 Speaker 1: are us. Microbes are part of what we are, and 830 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,719 Speaker 1: without them, we wouldn't be what we are. So I'm 831 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: gonna how stuff works eyes this conversation for a second. 832 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,799 Speaker 1: Brain Stuff are one of our other shows here that 833 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: I am the narrator on. UH. We have the classic episode, 834 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: which is our version of this why are You Farting? 835 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: Which is that that's basically like our version of that. 836 00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: It's like, here's about all these microbes that are inside 837 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: your body, but we'll tie it into flatulence. Anyway, that 838 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 1: book is definitely worth checking out, and maybe in the 839 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: future we'll get to talk to Ed on the show. 840 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes Yeah, that'd be cool ed. If you're listening, give 841 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: us a call. Alright, So I have two selections I'm 842 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,240 Speaker 1: going to run through here. Okay, there's a reason because 843 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: you'll need the set one after the first one. The 844 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: first book is Raven Rock, The Story of the U. S. 845 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 1: Government's secret plan to save itself when the rest of 846 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: us die, by Garrett M. Graff. Uh. This is one 847 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,399 Speaker 1: of the more terrifying things you you can read this year. Uh, 848 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: and the horror is twofold. So on one level, you 849 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: can revel in the post apocalypse that might have been 850 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: a United States ravaged by nuclear war, in which a 851 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: replacement US government has stitched together from surviving political and 852 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: corporate leaders. Post office employees travel the country to count 853 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 1: the dead. It's it's sort of chronicle of the mega deaths, 854 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: I guess. And uh, everyone else who crawled out of 855 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: a bunker gets to spend those hoarded two dollar bills 856 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: and eat Nibisco survival biscuits, so you know, it's kind 857 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,480 Speaker 1: of it has something for fallout fans, you know. On 858 00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: the other hand, you get to learn all about our 859 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 1: our nation's past rehearsals for nuclear war, the nature of 860 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: the so called nuclear football, and just how much unchecked 861 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: power a US president has to plunge the world into 862 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: nuclear annihilation. So it will it will absolutely horrify de Beatreat. Well, yeah, yeah, 863 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,480 Speaker 1: you get to what is it A Boy and his Dog? Yeah, 864 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean, in a way, if you're reading A Boy 865 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 1: and his Dog, or The Road or The Stand or 866 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: just about anything else you can you can whip this 867 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,480 Speaker 1: out and sort of fact check everything. So in this 868 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,560 Speaker 1: book you get to learn about the mobile aerial command 869 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: centers for the US government and the Buried Bunker, essentially 870 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: cities created to shelter the chosen few while you know, 871 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: the rest of everybody else dies, And you get to 872 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,880 Speaker 1: consider all these different accounts of how these plans played 873 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: into US history, such as there's this account of Defense 874 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: Secretary James Schlessinger and he ordered the Pentagon, he had 875 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: to order the Pentagon not to uh to disregard a 876 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: presidential launch order of nuclear weapons because he was a 877 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: raid that Richard Nixon, who at the time was this 878 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 1: like the very end of his presidency. He's drinking heavily, 879 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: you know, just thumbing through his enemies. This is what 880 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: everybody was worried about, that he would like in a rage, 881 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,399 Speaker 1: just fire some nukes on his way out the door. 882 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 1: And I believe he It is not just like I 883 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:19,440 Speaker 1: wonder if he'll do this, like I think Nixon had 884 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: had mentioned the possibility. Well, Nixon had been practicing what 885 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: was known then as the Madman theory of of international relations, 886 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,879 Speaker 1: where he would he would get his subordinates to try 887 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,920 Speaker 1: to convince the Soviet Union that he was unhinged and 888 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: likely to launch a nuclear strike in order to get 889 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:41,080 Speaker 1: more leveraging power in negotiations with them because he was 890 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,680 Speaker 1: The idea was, if the Soviets think that Nixon might 891 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: is so crazy he really might start a war, then 892 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 1: we can get more out of them when we're having discussions. Okay, 893 00:46:53,160 --> 00:47:00,359 Speaker 1: So it's it's that practics by any other world leaders. Uh. Well, 894 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: I will just say that with with everything that continues 895 00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: to uh fill our news feeds, this this book is 896 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: uting and relevant and uh and also you know anxiety 897 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: uh aggravating as well. Alright, and this is why you 898 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: have a second book. That is why I have the 899 00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: second book. The second book. Listeners to the show may 900 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: remember from Joe and I's Cocktail episode, because after Raven Rock, 901 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna need a drink. The book is The Drunken 902 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: Botanists The Plants that Create the World's Great Drinks by 903 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 1: Amy Stewart. This is just this is a lovely volume 904 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: to keep around. This is one that I pull off 905 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,360 Speaker 1: the bookshelf fairly frequently. Yeah, Robert, you let me borrow 906 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,080 Speaker 1: this when we were preparing for our mixology episode and 907 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,879 Speaker 1: I flipped through it. I really enjoyed it. It's it's 908 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,879 Speaker 1: got just cool little facts and uh stuff behind all 909 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: these cocktails you might enjoy in the liquors that go 910 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,400 Speaker 1: into them, and it's uh, it's a cabinet of curiosities 911 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: for the mouth and the stomach. Yeah. Essentially, if you 912 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 1: if you drink, and you are if you're a beer 913 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: drink or a and drink, or certainly if you're a 914 00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: cocktail drinker, you can look up to be different beers, wines, 915 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: various liqueurs and see what is the botanical origin and 916 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 1: then what is that plan? Where does it come from, 917 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: how did it come to be? How did humans cultivated 918 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: or interact with it? Uh? So it it turns every 919 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,719 Speaker 1: it turns every cocktail you might have uh into uh 920 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: into a potential you know, botany lesson between this and 921 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: our colleagues Annie and Laura and over on food stuff. 922 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,279 Speaker 1: I feel like, uh like we need to just have 923 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 1: like a full bar set up here and how stuff works, well, 924 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: I feel like we have a cabinet full of liquor bottles. 925 00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: But like I look at their feeding, like half the 926 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: episodes that they do are about like some kind of alcohol. 927 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,399 Speaker 1: So it's clearly like really interesting. Scientifically, well, it's it's 928 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: kind of an imbalance, right. I mean they get the 929 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: free alcohol and we get free copies of Raven Rocks. 930 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: So there you go review copies. I should say they're 931 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,600 Speaker 1: not free. So yeah, the Drunken Botanist, Uh excellent volume 932 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: looks good on a shelf, and it has cocktail recipes 933 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,919 Speaker 1: within it so you can bust it out to to 934 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 1: see what you're gonna you know, uh, concoct for the evening. 935 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,440 Speaker 1: So at the beginning of this episode, I said that 936 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: I would inevitably bring up other comic books. Raven Rock 937 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: reminds me of this great series that I think is 938 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: wrapping up right now called Letter forty four. Have I 939 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 1: talked to you guys about this before? The premise is that, uh, 940 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: the United States has detected a spaceship just within the 941 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: Solar system, and they have already sent a ship full 942 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960 Speaker 1: of scientists to go investigate what it is. And the 943 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,080 Speaker 1: beginning of the story, as a new president is elected, 944 00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: there's a letter on his desk in the Oval office 945 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,360 Speaker 1: and he opens it. It's essentially a letter describing to 946 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,240 Speaker 1: him like, here's all this stuff that's going on. Congratulations, 947 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,399 Speaker 1: you just inherited this huge problem. And the story goes 948 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,359 Speaker 1: on from there. The Raven Rock thing reminds me because 949 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 1: a huge part of it is them preparing for what 950 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,040 Speaker 1: they assume is going to be some kind of doomsday 951 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:08,720 Speaker 1: scenario if the aliens are coming to Earth. I highly 952 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,680 Speaker 1: recommend this story. It's like the West Wing meets uh, 953 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, some like outlandish hard sci fi is really cool. 954 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: And that leads me to a completely unrelated nonfiction recommendation 955 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,680 Speaker 1: that I have, so I recommend and this is something 956 00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,800 Speaker 1: that I am about halfway through right now myself, Corey 957 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: doctor Rose. Book Information doesn't want to be free laws 958 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: for the Internet age. This is something I stumbled across 959 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,919 Speaker 1: when I went to south By Southwest earlier this year. 960 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: They have they do this little thing where they have 961 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: like a south By Southwest bookstore that they set up 962 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: in the convention Center. And it's like all books that 963 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,360 Speaker 1: have debuted at south By Southwest where the the authors 964 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,680 Speaker 1: have given talks related to them. So I found this there. 965 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: Um short. These are all short essays by Corey Doctor 966 00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: or like real short about copyright and navigating around it 967 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,520 Speaker 1: to be a successful creator of really anything in the 968 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,839 Speaker 1: digital age. It's about how old models have failed and 969 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,839 Speaker 1: are changing and what is actually coming down the road. 970 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 1: And this is a book that's published by McSweeney's. You 971 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,200 Speaker 1: guys are familiar with mc sweeney's. So the physical copies 972 00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,520 Speaker 1: got this really cool design to it. I'm reading it digitally, 973 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: but it's got a it's got a beautiful cover. Um. 974 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 1: Corey Doctor, if people aren't familiar, is a blogger and 975 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,120 Speaker 1: fiction writer. He's the guy who runs Boying Boying Uh. 976 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,680 Speaker 1: He's very active in copyright activism and in Creative Commons 977 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: is writings. They're almost all available as free PDFs from 978 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: his own site using Creative Commons licenses. So he's basically 979 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 1: made some some interesting arguments. I don't know that I 980 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:45,759 Speaker 1: agree with all of them, and I don't I don't 981 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,480 Speaker 1: want to go through all of them here, but that 982 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,960 Speaker 1: distributing his content as such, making them free to everybody, 983 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,799 Speaker 1: actually helps his sales in other distribution models, whether that's 984 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: print or digitally. So even though you can download a 985 00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,120 Speaker 1: PDF of like this book, he argues, well, that acts 986 00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 1: as like fodder to get people to go and buy it, 987 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 1: whether it's in print or digitally. It's kind of an 988 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,360 Speaker 1: interesting model. That's interesting that that kind of perhaps ties 989 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 1: in with the comic book I'm gonna mention later. Oh cool, 990 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that. That is a 991 00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: good launching point. Um. So there's some really good advice 992 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: in this book for creative people who are trying to 993 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 1: make a go at making a living off of what 994 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:29,399 Speaker 1: they do. Whether you're your musician, your writer, your podcast 995 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,319 Speaker 1: or whatever. You're making short films and you're putting them 996 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: on YouTube. This gives you advice on questions like when 997 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: should you quit your job, does copyright protection work in 998 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: your favor? It tells you how to build an audience, 999 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:46,200 Speaker 1: and uh doctor makes this point that most creative people, 1000 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,560 Speaker 1: when they're starting out, they don't want to worry about 1001 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,839 Speaker 1: this stuff, right, They just want to make things. They 1002 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:52,640 Speaker 1: just want to get it out there in the world, 1003 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: but rather than ignoring it, he recommends use this book 1004 00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: based on the lessons that he's learned as a starting 1005 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,279 Speaker 1: point so that you can learn the difference between These 1006 00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 1: are the various sectors that he describes creators, investors, audience, 1007 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,719 Speaker 1: and intermediaries and as well. This also describes how the 1008 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,839 Speaker 1: industry is currently organized and where it's going, which is 1009 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,359 Speaker 1: something I mean, I know it's of interest to us 1010 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: because we work within this industry, but I'm sure that 1011 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: there are many of our listeners out there that make stuff, 1012 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,799 Speaker 1: whether they're they're writing articles, or they're doing their own podcasts, 1013 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: or they're making short films, or they're recording music. I 1014 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: think this would be of interest to most people who 1015 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:34,719 Speaker 1: are trying to sort of get their creative projects out 1016 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: there into the world. Cool. Yeah, So if you're out 1017 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,799 Speaker 1: there and you're listening to us and say, hey, when 1018 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,479 Speaker 1: can I start a podcast and quit my job? Yeah? 1019 00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:46,400 Speaker 1: Read this before? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think basically, if 1020 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,880 Speaker 1: I remember correctly, there's a there's a chapter title that's like, 1021 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,640 Speaker 1: when should I quit my job? Don't? Well, maybe we 1022 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: should take a quick break and then when we come 1023 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,799 Speaker 1: back we can look at our our final selections. I 1024 00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,759 Speaker 1: know a couple of comics from you guys, and another 1025 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:06,640 Speaker 1: fig book I wanted to mention. Thank alright, we're back. 1026 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:08,600 Speaker 1: So Joe, what do you have? You have one? You 1027 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: have one more fictional selection here before Christian and I 1028 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,160 Speaker 1: share a couple of comics. Yeah, and now this one 1029 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,239 Speaker 1: is a classic in science fiction. I'm sure a lot 1030 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,600 Speaker 1: of you have probably already read it, and I just 1031 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:21,480 Speaker 1: wanted to mention it because it was new to me 1032 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,400 Speaker 1: this year, and it's every bit as great as people 1033 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,359 Speaker 1: say it is. It's deserving of the praise. And this 1034 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,279 Speaker 1: would be the nineteen sixty nine sci fi classic, The 1035 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Kay Lagwin. Ah. Yeah, 1036 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 1: my wife has been reading a lot of Lagwin lately. 1037 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you guys read this book? 1038 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:44,360 Speaker 1: I have not read it. I have not. Yeah, I 1039 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,839 Speaker 1: just okay, So I've been meaning to read this book 1040 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,080 Speaker 1: for years. I think there's a big resurgence with her 1041 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,239 Speaker 1: stuff going on, right, Yeah, I just noticed that this 1042 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,200 Speaker 1: is funny. So I started reading this book, and I 1043 00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,520 Speaker 1: was talking to my wife, Rachel, who doesn't usually read 1044 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,319 Speaker 1: a whole lot of sci fi. Uh, And I found 1045 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,000 Speaker 1: out at the same time, completely unknown to me, she 1046 00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,759 Speaker 1: had been reading a different Languin book. I don't know 1047 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,200 Speaker 1: where all this sudden interest came from. I guess it 1048 00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 1: just emerged from the ether. But hold on, Your wife 1049 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,520 Speaker 1: and my wife are in the same reading group. I 1050 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,720 Speaker 1: think they might have had a Luguin book assigned for that. 1051 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:22,319 Speaker 1: That might be it may well. Anyway, this book is 1052 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,080 Speaker 1: just excellent. Like, if you've never read it before, you 1053 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,799 Speaker 1: should go back. It was published in nineteen nine, but 1054 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,320 Speaker 1: it's fresh. It feels like it could have been published 1055 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,239 Speaker 1: this year. Uh, it just jumps off the page. It's 1056 00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:36,560 Speaker 1: so good. All right, Well, we'll give us the cell 1057 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,960 Speaker 1: beyond everyone knowing that this is a book we should 1058 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: have read. Why should we read it? Well, it's It's 1059 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: a very different kind of alien contact story. Unlike Peter 1060 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,000 Speaker 1: Watt's book that I recommended earlier, Blindside, which is amazing 1061 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: on its own, and in that book, the alien contact 1062 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: is a confusing and dangerous meeting of utterly unfamiliar minds. 1063 00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 1: This is more of an alien anthropology story. So it's 1064 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,760 Speaker 1: set within Laguin's Hainish cycle, which is this larger group 1065 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,919 Speaker 1: of books that I haven't read any of the other 1066 00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,600 Speaker 1: ones in this cycle, So you don't need to know 1067 00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,399 Speaker 1: anything about the cycle going in. It's all explained within 1068 00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: the story. You can just jump right in to this novel. 1069 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 1: But anyway, in this story, there are many solar systems 1070 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: throughout the galaxy with similar related humanoid life forms that 1071 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,880 Speaker 1: have been seeded by one original culture, and the humanoid 1072 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: world's gradually become absorbed into this one sort of galactic 1073 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,520 Speaker 1: treaty organization called the Ecumen. And this is I guess 1074 00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,520 Speaker 1: sort of similar to the culture actually in the Banks. 1075 00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: And in this novel, the Ecumen sends a single loan 1076 00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:47,400 Speaker 1: representative named ginli I to this cold frozen planet called Gethen, 1077 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 1: and it's his job to convince the planet's major governments 1078 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,520 Speaker 1: to sign treaties and join the Ecumen. But it's kind 1079 00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: of difficult because they're not a spacefaring planet. They have 1080 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: no spaceships. Uh, they don't have much technology that's sort 1081 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,359 Speaker 1: of like, you know, a mid twentieth century industrial technology, 1082 00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,800 Speaker 1: but they that they have no goal of going into space, 1083 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,359 Speaker 1: and so when he shows up, their reaction is not 1084 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:17,280 Speaker 1: very interested. Surprisingly, But anyway, that that sort of gets 1085 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,800 Speaker 1: into the cultural differences between like Earth culture and what's 1086 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,280 Speaker 1: there on this planet? So that that's the opening set up, 1087 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: But most of the joy of this novel is just 1088 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 1: in the interactions of alien cultures learning from each other 1089 00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,920 Speaker 1: and learning about each other. And one of the great 1090 00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 1: themes in this book, and it's sort of there in 1091 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: the title, is that light is the left hand of darkness. 1092 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,600 Speaker 1: It's that we learn to understand thuring things through difference 1093 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,720 Speaker 1: in distinction, Like they're oftentimes things we don't recognize in 1094 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,200 Speaker 1: ourselves until we meet somebody very different from us, and 1095 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,280 Speaker 1: we we learned to contrast that person with us to 1096 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,320 Speaker 1: see something we never knew was there before. So the 1097 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 1: novels this kind of anthropology of the inhabitants of Gethin, 1098 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 1: but in doing that, it also a reverse anthropology of 1099 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,400 Speaker 1: human Earth culture. And it's it's just full of I mean, 1100 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:08,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil too much about it, because 1101 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: most of the pleasure and it is just discovering how 1102 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,280 Speaker 1: the world works and how different it is from us, 1103 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,400 Speaker 1: and and how the differences can be can seem so 1104 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,520 Speaker 1: different and be the same, or can show us something 1105 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: about ourselves. It's just a great, great sci fi book. Cool. Yeah, Well, 1106 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,160 Speaker 1: it sounds like I need to actually pull it off 1107 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,160 Speaker 1: the shelf and jump in, actually make it happen this 1108 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,360 Speaker 1: year with the Left Hand of Darkness, not to be 1109 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,760 Speaker 1: confused with the Right Hand of doom. What is that's 1110 00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,000 Speaker 1: a hell Boy graphic novel? Okay? Is the Big the 1111 00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,560 Speaker 1: Big Stone Hand? Yeah? Oh right, right right? The Big 1112 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,640 Speaker 1: Punchy very different than the hell Boy world. But but 1113 00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of I mean, it's serious, but it's 1114 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 1: also got some humor in it. It's um I couldn't 1115 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:54,120 Speaker 1: recommend it enough, and I think both of you guys 1116 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: would love it cool. The idea that there's some humor 1117 00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 1: in it, I think is a good selling point because 1118 00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,680 Speaker 1: she has a very very serious sounding name. I know 1119 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,520 Speaker 1: that sounds ridiculous, but well, it's not a silly novel. 1120 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not Star Trek e like it's a 1121 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,200 Speaker 1: It's got a very serious story and a lot of 1122 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,400 Speaker 1: serious stuff happens in it. But there there's also some 1123 00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:15,360 Speaker 1: joy and some humor in it to be had in 1124 00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,480 Speaker 1: the relations between the characters. Yeah, I think that's one 1125 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,160 Speaker 1: of the That is one of the reasons I keep 1126 00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:22,160 Speaker 1: coming back to Banks, So there is a joy there, 1127 00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,120 Speaker 1: you know. I do enjoy some joyless fiction, I know. 1128 00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:32,479 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's like you want something that they wants 1129 00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,640 Speaker 1: to wake up in the morning. Sometimes. All right, well 1130 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:40,080 Speaker 1: shall I cover my comic here? Comics? Okay, So I 1131 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,400 Speaker 1: always have to to preface by saying I'm not a 1132 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,120 Speaker 1: huge comics guy. I probably read like three comics a year. 1133 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,880 Speaker 1: And uh and and I'm you know, a bit, a 1134 00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: bit choosy and reluctant. Uh, but inevitably pick up a 1135 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,600 Speaker 1: couple of things. So this year I I read Alejandro 1136 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,200 Speaker 1: Jodorowski's Showman Killer, which I enjoyed. On you suggestion, Christian, 1137 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:07,480 Speaker 1: I read James Stoko's Orc Stain. Oh God, so good. Yeah. Yeah, 1138 01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm actually reading one of James Stocco's earlier works right now. 1139 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,479 Speaker 1: Not on my recommendation list, but he did this book 1140 01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,600 Speaker 1: called Wanton Soup that's all about like space truckers, essentially 1141 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,880 Speaker 1: who in the main space trucker is constantly in search 1142 01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,960 Speaker 1: for the best wanton soup in the galaxy. Yeah, well 1143 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,200 Speaker 1: that sounds fun too. Yeah. Stucco is great. But the 1144 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: book that I'm gonna highlight here is is a wonderful 1145 01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,560 Speaker 1: little comic. Uh. And it's actually a web comic, but 1146 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,960 Speaker 1: there's the first uh what ninety two pages of it 1147 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: are available in physical form, and it's called Kill six 1148 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,440 Speaker 1: Billion Demons by Tom Parkinson Morgan. And this one is 1149 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,800 Speaker 1: actually recommend recommended to me by j M. Dragonis, who 1150 01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:51,840 Speaker 1: is another tought talented comic artist in a friend of yours. Yeah, 1151 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,520 Speaker 1: well I met him because he's a listener to our show. Yeah, 1152 01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 1: he wrote into me. I think he heard me talking 1153 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:00,880 Speaker 1: about going to comic book conven at some point, and 1154 01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: we sometime last year we met up at a comic 1155 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:07,240 Speaker 1: book convention and became friends and we're comics buddies now. Yeah. 1156 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,439 Speaker 1: And and I introduced you to him when we did 1157 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,800 Speaker 1: our live show at C two e two earlier this year. Yeah, 1158 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,600 Speaker 1: and that's where we were chatting and he said, oh, 1159 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,360 Speaker 1: you should check out six Billion Demons, So I looked 1160 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,600 Speaker 1: it up. I did, and by while we're at it. 1161 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 1: His pen name for his comics is JM. But his 1162 01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:26,360 Speaker 1: name is Joe Uh. Joe Uh does a book called 1163 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,480 Speaker 1: The Sires of Time, which is worth checking out too. 1164 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,600 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he has this kind of this wonderful wood 1165 01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,040 Speaker 1: cut style that it's beautiful. You should follow him on 1166 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,880 Speaker 1: social media and what like watching him the time he 1167 01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:41,200 Speaker 1: puts into like every single page is it's stunning. Anyways, 1168 01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,040 Speaker 1: kill sixteen billion Demons those sounds right up my alley. Yeah, 1169 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,120 Speaker 1: and uh, it's it's it's a web comic, which is 1170 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:49,840 Speaker 1: kind of a new thing to me. I'm not really 1171 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,640 Speaker 1: that up on web comics and now they work. But 1172 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,520 Speaker 1: you can you can go to kill six Billion Demons 1173 01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,320 Speaker 1: dot com. That's no numbers and there must went tough 1174 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,480 Speaker 1: to get that domain name, but you can read it 1175 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,080 Speaker 1: all there and it's like people it's like a guess 1176 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,000 Speaker 1: kind of a patron system where people support that way 1177 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,320 Speaker 1: and or by the physical book. But it's it's essentially 1178 01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: the story of a young woman who sucked into an 1179 01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 1: alien world of demons, angels, fallen gods. Uh. It showcases 1180 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:24,120 Speaker 1: heavy inspiration from Eastern religion, so lots of like lots 1181 01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,920 Speaker 1: of iconography that feels reminiscent of Hinduism and various as 1182 01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,480 Speaker 1: well as various Buddhist works of art. And there's also 1183 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:34,320 Speaker 1: uh this meant might just be me. I haven't seen 1184 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,040 Speaker 1: you know him point to this artists and inspiration, but uh, 1185 01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,680 Speaker 1: I get a strong sense of Wayne Barlow in a 1186 01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,600 Speaker 1: lot of the designs Wayne Barlow, who you know, created 1187 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,760 Speaker 1: and made a career out of drawing uh at times dinosaurs, 1188 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,400 Speaker 1: some paleo art, but also aliens and demons. Ye, so 1189 01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,919 Speaker 1: gorgeous stuff. Like if you just if you're out there 1190 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,640 Speaker 1: listening and you want to see what it looks like, 1191 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,080 Speaker 1: like Google image search that or look for it on Pinterest. Yeah. Yeah, 1192 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:05,840 Speaker 1: Wayne Wayne Barlow is incredible. H So this uh, this, 1193 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: this is just a really really fun comic to pick 1194 01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:13,360 Speaker 1: up strong female protagonists, wonderful lore and there's just so many, 1195 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,760 Speaker 1: so many scenes you turned to are just going to 1196 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,160 Speaker 1: be like an epic landscape where they're all these different 1197 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 1: demonic or angelic creatures engaged in various activities around like 1198 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,640 Speaker 1: strange locales, and you just kind of you just kind 1199 01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,240 Speaker 1: of lose yourself in the image. It's kind of like 1200 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,240 Speaker 1: looking at a at a Bosch painting, you know, and 1201 01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,960 Speaker 1: you're just you're just picking out all the details and 1202 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:38,040 Speaker 1: figuring out the smaller stories that are occupying the corners. Yeah. 1203 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,360 Speaker 1: I mean I had never heard of this until you 1204 01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:43,760 Speaker 1: you brought it in today into the studio and it 1205 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,680 Speaker 1: completely missed my radar. But it looks gorgeous al right, Well, 1206 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,320 Speaker 1: how about you, Christian you you were You, unlike me, 1207 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,160 Speaker 1: are a big comics guy, so I know you've got 1208 01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,920 Speaker 1: something special for us. This is uh my favorite comic 1209 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,000 Speaker 1: that's come out in the last I guess like twelve 1210 01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,040 Speaker 1: months maybe um. I think it was being published in 1211 01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:04,640 Speaker 1: single issues last year and the collected edition came out 1212 01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,520 Speaker 1: early seen. I believe it's called House of Penance and 1213 01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:12,400 Speaker 1: it's by Peter J. Tamassi, Ian Bertram and Dave Stewart, 1214 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,800 Speaker 1: and it's published by dark Horse Comics. This is so 1215 01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:19,560 Speaker 1: the collection is a graphic novel horror story about the 1216 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:24,400 Speaker 1: Winchester Mystery House and its construction. So we're probably all 1217 01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:26,280 Speaker 1: three of us fairly familiar with it. But if if 1218 01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,479 Speaker 1: you're unfamiliar with it. It builds off of the myth 1219 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,360 Speaker 1: that Sarah Winchester thought there was a blood curse on 1220 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,280 Speaker 1: her home thanks to her husband's gun business. So the 1221 01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,080 Speaker 1: idea here and this is real. You can go visit 1222 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,760 Speaker 1: this place if you've not heard of it before. Winchester 1223 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:44,919 Speaker 1: Mystery House is a real mansion in San Jose, California. 1224 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:50,040 Speaker 1: It was the residence of William worked Winchester's widow, Sarah, 1225 01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 1: and it has a lack of a building plan that's 1226 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:56,600 Speaker 1: turned it into this odd curiosity for tourists. Uh. It 1227 01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,560 Speaker 1: was constructed in eighty four and Sarah and other people 1228 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:04,360 Speaker 1: have claimed that it was haunted by the ghosts of 1229 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,240 Speaker 1: those who were killed with Winchester rifles, so she kept 1230 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:12,920 Speaker 1: building it into this crazy labyrinth. There's doors and stairs 1231 01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,640 Speaker 1: that go to nowhere, like our hotel in Chicago, stairs 1232 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,720 Speaker 1: leading straight into a wall. I thought I thought of 1233 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:21,840 Speaker 1: the Winchester Mystery House when we stayed there. Yeah. There's 1234 01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,959 Speaker 1: also like there's just windows inside that open up into 1235 01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:28,440 Speaker 1: other rooms, but they don't open outside. Like, yeah, I've 1236 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,080 Speaker 1: not visited, but it's definitely on my bucket list. It's 1237 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. So this book is all about that. It's 1238 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:37,760 Speaker 1: about this the construction of it. It's got this art 1239 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:42,120 Speaker 1: that is just stunningly detailed. It's got this wonderful color palette. 1240 01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:45,000 Speaker 1: So if you don't recognize Dave Stewart's name, Dave Stewart 1241 01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,720 Speaker 1: is like the go to colorist in the comics industry. 1242 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,360 Speaker 1: Like he is the guy who's one like best colorist 1243 01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,760 Speaker 1: at all the awards ceremonies for like the last like 1244 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,360 Speaker 1: fifteen years or something like that. He's he's amazing, uh, 1245 01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,640 Speaker 1: and so he uses this really cool palette of beds 1246 01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,440 Speaker 1: that draws you into this myth. It's got some smart 1247 01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,320 Speaker 1: layout with really clever panel designs, but at the same 1248 01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,600 Speaker 1: time it keeps this story flowing. It's really haunting and 1249 01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,240 Speaker 1: unsettling too. Like Tamasi really takes the whole like Sarah 1250 01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,480 Speaker 1: Winchester myth and and builds out with it, you know, 1251 01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,080 Speaker 1: beyond what we know about Sarah Winchester. But it's rare 1252 01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:24,720 Speaker 1: for a horror comic in that it's actually unsettling and 1253 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,160 Speaker 1: fills me with dread when I'm reading it. Like most 1254 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,840 Speaker 1: horror comics, I write horror comics, so I have this 1255 01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,240 Speaker 1: problem when I'm writing mine. It's very difficult in the 1256 01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,840 Speaker 1: medium of comics to build dread in the same way 1257 01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,880 Speaker 1: you can in prose or in film, for instance, where 1258 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,640 Speaker 1: you've got like audio to work with. Right in comics 1259 01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,680 Speaker 1: there's there's different tricks and tools that you can play with, 1260 01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,320 Speaker 1: but it's not as easy. And this book, man, it 1261 01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,280 Speaker 1: really does a good job of it. I mean, it 1262 01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,200 Speaker 1: gets your your skin crawling by the end of it. 1263 01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:58,840 Speaker 1: It's definitely for any horror fans who found our episode 1264 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,280 Speaker 1: on the causes of human and violence interesting because really 1265 01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:06,600 Speaker 1: the larger theme surrounding the book, you know, outside of 1266 01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:09,440 Speaker 1: these like bizarre ghosts that may or may not be 1267 01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:13,880 Speaker 1: haunting Sarah Winchester as she's constructing this monstrous mansion, it's 1268 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,120 Speaker 1: about human violence, you know. And and and the legend 1269 01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,440 Speaker 1: goes that for all the construction workers that lived on 1270 01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,280 Speaker 1: site that we're building the house, she wouldn't allow them 1271 01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:25,520 Speaker 1: to carry arms, and they weren't allowed to No violence 1272 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:27,840 Speaker 1: was allowed on the property. If they ever gotten to 1273 01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,600 Speaker 1: a fight or anything, they were immediately fired. Um. It 1274 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:36,200 Speaker 1: uses lettering in a really smart way too. So we 1275 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:40,360 Speaker 1: associate bang in comics with a gun shooting, right, but 1276 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,840 Speaker 1: they use the lettering. So there's bangs and blams all 1277 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:48,680 Speaker 1: throughout this book, but it's associated with the construction of 1278 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,080 Speaker 1: this building and all these guys constantly hammering and building 1279 01:07:52,120 --> 01:07:54,360 Speaker 1: these rooms and then tearing these rooms down and rebuilding 1280 01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,400 Speaker 1: them in a different configuration. But then gunshots get mixed 1281 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:01,240 Speaker 1: in there too, and violence gets mixed in there. It's 1282 01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,880 Speaker 1: I was really really impressed with this book, so I 1283 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:08,360 Speaker 1: highly recommended. I want to say, uh, the original series 1284 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,640 Speaker 1: of something like five or six issues long, so it's 1285 01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,240 Speaker 1: it's a good one and done graphic novel that's just 1286 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,760 Speaker 1: utterly creepy cool. And does it Does it have any 1287 01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:24,840 Speaker 1: overlap at all with the movie Thirteen Ghosts? No? I 1288 01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:29,080 Speaker 1: wish it did. Uh yeah No, unfortunately no, because that 1289 01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,679 Speaker 1: may be my favorite specially built. I was going to say, 1290 01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:33,760 Speaker 1: we need to, uh, we need to find a way 1291 01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:38,920 Speaker 1: to incorporate thirteen Ghosts since one of our trailer talks, right, 1292 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the remake with Matthew Lillard. Right, oh yeah, 1293 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:51,120 Speaker 1: I think he was yeah, and um god what yeah? 1294 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,519 Speaker 1: So oh, you know what, this was another one of 1295 01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:57,360 Speaker 1: those movies where U two movies with the basic same 1296 01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,360 Speaker 1: premise came out at the same time. There was House 1297 01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:05,000 Speaker 1: on Haunted Hill and in thirteen Ghosts all came out 1298 01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,719 Speaker 1: like right around yeah, right right, yeah. Did thirteen Ghosts 1299 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,120 Speaker 1: have f Murray Abraham in it? It might have. Yeah, 1300 01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,440 Speaker 1: he might have been. He might have been the grand designer. 1301 01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,679 Speaker 1: I think. I recall from Roger Abert's review of Thirteen 1302 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Ghosts where he started by saying, this is certainly one 1303 01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,639 Speaker 1: of the loudest movies I've ever seen. I will give 1304 01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,720 Speaker 1: Thirteen Ghosts this the designs of the ghosts in that 1305 01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:33,760 Speaker 1: movie are awesome. Like, the ghosts look really cool. I 1306 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,760 Speaker 1: think I remember I vaguely remember f Murray Abraham, but 1307 01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:39,080 Speaker 1: he might not have even been anything. Don't you have 1308 01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:43,439 Speaker 1: to wear like special glasses or they're they construct glass 1309 01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:45,360 Speaker 1: around the house so you can see the ghosts, but 1310 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:50,160 Speaker 1: only through this particular kind of made glass. Yeah what Yeah, no, 1311 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,000 Speaker 1: this is completely unrelated, but definitely go see thirteen Ghosts. 1312 01:09:56,160 --> 01:09:59,400 Speaker 1: All right, Well, there you have it, some fictional, nonfictional 1313 01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,559 Speaker 1: and comic recommendations from your host here for you to, uh, 1314 01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, consider for your summer reading. Yeah, definitely if 1315 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,680 Speaker 1: you listeners out there have something that you think we 1316 01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,640 Speaker 1: should read, which I'm sure you do after hearing us 1317 01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,439 Speaker 1: gab about what we've been reading for the last hour plus, 1318 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,880 Speaker 1: let us know, right, you can write into us. We're 1319 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: all over social media. We're on Facebook. You can write 1320 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:25,519 Speaker 1: us there, Twitter, Tumbler, and Instagram. I'm loving Instagram right now, guys. 1321 01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:29,040 Speaker 1: Instagram's Instagram is my new social media platform of choice. 1322 01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,880 Speaker 1: You mean personally or for the brand both. Yeah, it's 1323 01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 1: like brand the brand. Yeah, I just really like it. 1324 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:41,479 Speaker 1: It's like, uh, it feels like the one safe space 1325 01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,720 Speaker 1: in social media right now where people can't just be 1326 01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,759 Speaker 1: like utterly and human to each other. Yeah. I definitely 1327 01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:51,679 Speaker 1: feel like feel that way about like my personal Instagram. Yeah, 1328 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,439 Speaker 1: I can just go there and it's mostly pictures of 1329 01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,200 Speaker 1: people's kids, right Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's either like people 1330 01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:00,559 Speaker 1: sharing cool art or you know, self is aren't really 1331 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,040 Speaker 1: my thing, but like doing selfies and feeling proud about 1332 01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,160 Speaker 1: themselves or taking pictures of their lives. Yeah, we should 1333 01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:08,800 Speaker 1: start uploading pictures of food and that how you get 1334 01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,800 Speaker 1: followers on Instagram as food? Yeah, I would assume so. 1335 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:14,640 Speaker 1: Pretty much our Instagram feed is like our episodes or 1336 01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,160 Speaker 1: weird pictures Robert and I take throughout the course of 1337 01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,599 Speaker 1: our day. Oh. I should also mention that on our 1338 01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,680 Speaker 1: Facebook group we uh on Facebook page, we now have 1339 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,640 Speaker 1: a group associated with that. So if you if you 1340 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,680 Speaker 1: were one of our Facebook followers, and you you you 1341 01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,960 Speaker 1: would you would like to interact with us more and 1342 01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,280 Speaker 1: comment on the on the various content we put out, 1343 01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,880 Speaker 1: especially on the podcast episodes, but in a way that 1344 01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,120 Speaker 1: maybe is less lost. Uh, you know, it's not as 1345 01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,080 Speaker 1: lost as it would be on the main page. Then 1346 01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:43,280 Speaker 1: the group is uh, it's potentially a good place for that. 1347 01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,519 Speaker 1: We just rolled it out. It's we're still still building up, 1348 01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,559 Speaker 1: but we're just we're gonna see what happens with It's 1349 01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,840 Speaker 1: very small right now. I mean it compareson to our 1350 01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,160 Speaker 1: Facebook page. I think our Facebook page has a million 1351 01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:55,760 Speaker 1: plus followers, but like our discussion group right now is 1352 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:58,839 Speaker 1: only like maybe twenty or thirty people. So yeah, definitely 1353 01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,720 Speaker 1: hop in there. Uh, it's a great place. Like some 1354 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,599 Speaker 1: of our our listeners are already putting articles in there 1355 01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,920 Speaker 1: to get our attention and other listeners attention to be like, hey, 1356 01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,120 Speaker 1: did you hear about this? Check this out? Like the 1357 01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:13,439 Speaker 1: tartar grade thing. I saw that tartar grade piece and 1358 01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,920 Speaker 1: then Peter shared it on our discussion board, and I 1359 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:20,480 Speaker 1: immediately thought of Joe. It was like Joe tart grades. Yeah, 1360 01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:22,280 Speaker 1: so check this out and it should. This is a 1361 01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:27,160 Speaker 1: water Bears yeah, the client of Vassa Baron. Uh, this 1362 01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,040 Speaker 1: is a good place for if you've ever wanted to 1363 01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:30,800 Speaker 1: share something to our page. I don't think we have 1364 01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,640 Speaker 1: that functionality right now. You can share it to the 1365 01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:37,720 Speaker 1: group and you'll be able to accomplish the same effect. Yeah, yeah, totally. Hey, 1366 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,120 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, As always, you can go to 1367 01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:41,840 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com if you want 1368 01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,240 Speaker 1: to see some blog posts Robert, you've done any good 1369 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,800 Speaker 1: monster stuff on there lately? Oh man, it's summer's been 1370 01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:49,160 Speaker 1: too busy for mine. I think I did one un blade. Yeah, 1371 01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,799 Speaker 1: I saw your blade. Well that was great to a slime? 1372 01:12:52,479 --> 01:12:57,120 Speaker 1: Might I think that's it? Seriously, best kept secret on 1373 01:12:57,160 --> 01:13:01,440 Speaker 1: the Internet. Robert's monster science posts on our site are amazing. 1374 01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,479 Speaker 1: If you're not like, subscribe to our assess feed, go 1375 01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,439 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow your Mind right now and just 1376 01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,360 Speaker 1: scroll through all the awesome stuff robertson putting up there 1377 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,320 Speaker 1: for seven years now. Yeah, it'll be an easy trip. 1378 01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,559 Speaker 1: You will not be trying to be a slim mic 1379 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,799 Speaker 1: crawling up hill ice ice skating up hill um. And also, 1380 01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:20,960 Speaker 1: as always, if you want to email us get in 1381 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,160 Speaker 1: touch with us directly. You can hit us up at 1382 01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:36,720 Speaker 1: blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com for 1383 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,200 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Does it 1384 01:13:39,240 --> 01:14:01,040 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com b B four five