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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I never told your protection of I heart Radios how

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Speaker 1: stuff works. You know. This is our third recording, and

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Speaker 1: saying my name is getting really weird because I feel

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Speaker 1: like I don't say it right. Oh I've already said

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Speaker 1: on this podcast before. I feel like I don't say

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Speaker 1: my name correctly because everyone would always question me about it,

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Speaker 1: and so now I say my name like a question

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Speaker 1: and it really frustrates me. I'm working on it. I

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Speaker 1: think mine is because of my Korean accent, like I

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Speaker 1: don't have one anymore, but growing up younger I did

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Speaker 1: trying to learn English, and so trying to say my name,

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Speaker 1: I still have a weird Korean infellection. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: so the sounds really weird to me. Well, that's is excellent.

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Speaker 1: Both of us start podcast with doubts about her own name.

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Speaker 1: That right, professionals only the best here. Um. So today

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Speaker 1: we have yet another kind of spooky Halloween episode. But

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Speaker 1: you know, you can listen to it whenever you want.

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Speaker 1: And I'm excited for the topic that we're doing for

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Speaker 1: this episode because we're talking about the Winchester Mystery House,

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Speaker 1: the one who built it and why kind of sounds

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Speaker 1: like it's gonna be a beginning of a Scooby Doo episode.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I wish. I love Scooby Doo. It's been

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Speaker 1: a long time since I've seen it, so I hope

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Speaker 1: there's just not anything really problematic but it now, but

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Speaker 1: I did when I was a child, all right, but

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Speaker 1: topic for a later day today. The Winchester Mystery House.

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Speaker 1: Um So, this is modernly a tourist attraction located in

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Speaker 1: San Jose, California. Since it opened to the public in nineteen,

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Speaker 1: over twelve million people have visited it. I have never

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Speaker 1: been and desperately want to go so badly, So we

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Speaker 1: need to add this to our list. This is a

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Speaker 1: way we can even out the your stops with my stops.

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Speaker 1: Then yes, yes, yes, yes, pretty much equaled it out.

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Speaker 1: If all that you're excited about that one too, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'll have to take a tally before I agreed to

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Speaker 1: our disagree with any of those. Um So. The Winchester

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Speaker 1: Mystery House that they have a Halloween candlelight tour, So

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Speaker 1: if any listeners have done that, please right now, and

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Speaker 1: a Friday the thirteenth flashlight tour. Right. It was also

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Speaker 1: made into a movie starring Helen Murrain semi recently, I

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Speaker 1: believe in Time magazine once labeled this house as one

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Speaker 1: of the world's most haunted destinations. The U. S Department

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Speaker 1: of Commerce has given it the Certified Haunted label, which

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I didn't know that was a label.

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Speaker 1: I guess it makes sense with like the Amitaville Horrhouse

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Speaker 1: Hotel level, I guess one of them. One of my

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Speaker 1: friends was she brought up the bell Witch how it's

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Speaker 1: for the only federal, federally recognized haunting in our history.

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Speaker 1: So that I want to do another episode on later

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Speaker 1: all scary stuff all the time. No, I promise I won't.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, this house is stunning. Until the nineteen o

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Speaker 1: six earthquake, it was seven stories. Now it's four stories.

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Speaker 1: The upper floors were deemed too dangerous to rebuild. At

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Speaker 1: its peak, it had an estimated and we'll get into

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Speaker 1: hy estimated one sixty rooms, ten thousand panes of glass,

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Speaker 1: and almost fifty fireplaces four thousand square feet. It's also

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Speaker 1: known as one of the most haunted houses in the

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Speaker 1: United States. It was commissioned by Sarah Winchester, who was

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Speaker 1: able to afford building such a spectacle because she inherited

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Speaker 1: the Winchester Rifled fortune after her husband died, she received

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Speaker 1: a stipend of one thousand dollars a day. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: need that in twenty nineteen, that's equivalent to twenty six

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars a day. That's a lot because someone would

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Speaker 1: give me that. I we can work on that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we can work on that. So that's what it is

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Speaker 1: modern ly. But what about historically, how did we get

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Speaker 1: this spectacle of a supposedly haunted house. Well, we'll get

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Speaker 1: into that after a quick break forward from our sponsor

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Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor, and we're back with

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Speaker 1: another disclaimer. What as with our Female serial Killers episode? Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of legend out there

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Speaker 1: about this place, a lot of I guess exaggeration, embellishment

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Speaker 1: of details throughout history of why it exists. And Um,

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Speaker 1: Sarah Winchester was a very private person, so there isn't

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Speaker 1: too much that we have concrete evidence wise when it

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Speaker 1: comes to her and her motivations for building this house.

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Speaker 1: Um the official tour guides at the Winchester House are

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Speaker 1: quick to point that out themselves. Um So as such. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've filled in the blanks with our modern interpretation that

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Speaker 1: essentially she was mentally ill and or a recluse. But

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Speaker 1: according to the guides, this was probably not the case. Um.

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Speaker 1: For instance, a lot of people like to point to

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Speaker 1: the seance room. There's a room that seems to have

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Speaker 1: been used for seances. It might not have been, but

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Speaker 1: that's what the historians seem to agree upon. But those

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Speaker 1: were actually kind of common back then seances. So it's

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Speaker 1: not like she was being super weird in quotes that

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Speaker 1: that was actually something people did. Um. There are two

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Speaker 1: main narratives that she built house to confuse ghosts, or

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Speaker 1: that she built it as a hobby and the house's

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Speaker 1: uniqueness was the result of her changing her mind or

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Speaker 1: simply mistakes, or because she didn't have any design experience.

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Speaker 1: There were no blueprints for this house. She was just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, never mind, forget that hallway, let's go

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Speaker 1: over here. But okay, let's get into some of the history.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Winchester was born as Sarah Lockwood Party and was

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Speaker 1: born in New Haven, Connecticut, in eighteen thirty nine. She

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Speaker 1: grew up comfortably in a well off family. She attended

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Speaker 1: some of the best schools in the area and learned

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Speaker 1: four different languages. In eighteen sixty two, when she was

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Speaker 1: twenty three, she married William Wart Winchester. William and Sarah

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Speaker 1: wed and started their life as a married couple in Connecticut.

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Speaker 1: But then William got to work at where else but

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Speaker 1: the family business, the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. This company

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Speaker 1: made the Winchester Repeating rifle, essentially a single barrel rifle

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Speaker 1: capable of holding a couple of rounds, and this business

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Speaker 1: made them rich. Oh yeah. Four years into their marriage,

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty six, Sarah gave birth to a daughter.

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Speaker 1: They named her Annie. Tragically, the baby died only a

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Speaker 1: few weeks later, stricken by marasmus. Perhaps obviously, Mrs Winchester

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Speaker 1: was never the same. Meanwhile, the gun that won the West,

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Speaker 1: a K Model seventy three, was released in eighteen seventy three.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty, William's father and the owner of Winchester

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Speaker 1: Repeating Arms, died, leaving his company to his son. William

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Speaker 1: himself died in one from tuberculosis, leaving Sarah with half

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Speaker 1: of the shares of the Winchester company. And also that

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Speaker 1: twenty six thousand dollars a day we mentioned earlier, and

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Speaker 1: a lump sum of twenty million dollars or five hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars in today's money. This was another blow to

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Speaker 1: Sarah's psyche her husband's death. Some believed, to seek comfort

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Speaker 1: from her grief, she sought out a medium, and the

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Speaker 1: popular telling of the story, the medium did not provide comfort,

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Speaker 1: but instead added to Sarah's turmoil, insinuating that vengeful spirits

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Speaker 1: were targeting her, in particular vengeful ghost who had died

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Speaker 1: at the wrong end of a Winchester rifle. They were

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Speaker 1: behind the deaths of her husband and child, according to

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Speaker 1: this medium and in this story, and if Sarah wasn't careful,

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Speaker 1: she would be their next victim. Wow. Can you imagine

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Speaker 1: getting that advice from a mediums night? The medium advised

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Speaker 1: Sarah to go out west and build a house large

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Speaker 1: enough for all the spirits haunting her. And again this

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Speaker 1: seeing a medium wasn't uncommon at the time. A lot

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Speaker 1: of women lost their loved ones during the Civil War

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Speaker 1: and we're looking for ways to communicate with them. During

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Speaker 1: this time, people were bombarded with advertisements for moving out west.

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Speaker 1: And this is because California had only recently been incorporated

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Speaker 1: into the US, and the government on folks to move

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Speaker 1: out there. So maybe the medium was working for the government,

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Speaker 1: or maybe Sarah just saw an ad and acted upon it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we do that all the time now, not

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Speaker 1: that specifically, but so Sarah when Chester, she didn't need

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Speaker 1: to be told twice, and she made her way out

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Speaker 1: west to San Francisco, California, very quickly. Yes, however, she

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Speaker 1: found the weather they're really messed with her arthritis, so

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Speaker 1: she moved to San Jose four. She had purchased forty

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Speaker 1: acres of land, which grew into a hundred sixty acres,

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Speaker 1: and began building on it. She would continue building on

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Speaker 1: it until her death nearly forty years later. In n

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Speaker 1: At first, she contracted construction workers, perhaps numbering thirteen at

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Speaker 1: the time, to build an eight room house. Over the years,

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Speaker 1: the project ballooned, growing bigger and bigger. Her original intent

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Speaker 1: was to build a house big enough for her sisters

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Speaker 1: and herself, so no plans were drawn up, and she

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Speaker 1: designed it somewhat haphazardly, or perhaps designed it. It's a

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Speaker 1: strong word, you know. She called it Yaada villa. She

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Speaker 1: paid her workers well and often purchased them homes to

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Speaker 1: live in while they worked on her home. On top

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Speaker 1: of the construction crew, she employed eighteen servants and eighteen gardeners.

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Speaker 1: They split shifts so that they could work twenty four seven. Allegedly,

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Speaker 1: they only stopped when Sarah died and left so abruptly

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Speaker 1: that nails were left half hammered. I find that hard

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Speaker 1: to believe, but that is how the Internet tells it

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Speaker 1: in several places. Its story. It is a good story.

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Speaker 1: She insisted that only red would be used, even though

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Speaker 1: she didn't like how it looked, so workers were instructed

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Speaker 1: to cover it up with a stain and faux grain,

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Speaker 1: which ended up being twenty thousand gallons of paint. The

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Speaker 1: house also featured some technological rarities of that time, like

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Speaker 1: indoor plumbing, including indoor running hot water, forced air heating,

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Speaker 1: and gas lighting operated by pushing a button. So, of course,

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Speaker 1: it didn't take too long for rumors to starched by

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Speaker 1: about the house and its owners. Locals and workers on

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Speaker 1: the project believed it to be haunted all kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: bells rained by themselves, window opening closing seemingly on their own.

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Speaker 1: Some workers purportedly claimed every day she held seances to

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Speaker 1: reach good spirits. Some believed her communications with these good

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Speaker 1: spirits were the impetus behind her ever shifting design ideas.

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Speaker 1: Stories abound about Sarah that she refused to be photographed,

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Speaker 1: that she refused to grant Teddy Roosevelt's request for an

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Speaker 1: audience with the Winchester widow. And we have to remember two.

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Speaker 1: At this time, any woman living by herself, owning her

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Speaker 1: own property was caused for gossip. Take that and multiply

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Speaker 1: it by an enormous, eye catching mansion, and stories were

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Speaker 1: sure to be rife. Even these days, A few things

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Speaker 1: are scarier than a woman living by herself. Agreed, all

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Speaker 1: this haunted stuff is fun. But historian jen and bow

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Speaker 1: him Um apologies if I'm mispronouncing your name, argues that

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Speaker 1: it was less a protection against angry ghost and more

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Speaker 1: of a hobby. A lot of these stories don't come

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Speaker 1: from Winchester herself or any historical records, kind of like

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Speaker 1: we said, but books written in the nineties sixties, after

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Speaker 1: the tourist attraction had been open for several decades. The

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Speaker 1: houses quirks could have been a result of a changing

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Speaker 1: mind and like design experience, as we said, and or

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Speaker 1: could have been away for Sarah to remind herself of

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Speaker 1: the good time she had with her husband William building

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Speaker 1: their house in New Haven. But let's talk about some

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Speaker 1: of those quirks. Yes, let's go. So. Winchester thought that

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Speaker 1: the sounds of constant construction would cover up any supernatural sounds.

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Speaker 1: Smart to mean. She sought to confuse ghosts with hidden passages,

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Speaker 1: windows in the floors, upside down pillars, ridiculously shallow covered

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Speaker 1: and deaden stairwells, not stairways to heaven. Different thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly one door opens the door to nowhere, to a

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Speaker 1: twelve foot drop about three point seven ms is nicknamed

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Speaker 1: the mother in law suit, which seems odd as she

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Speaker 1: loved the stained glass windows there are heavily featured throughout

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Speaker 1: the house, and many of them designed by Tiffany and Company.

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Speaker 1: Which is they again? I like that? Let me go see.

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Speaker 1: Those two are inscribed with quotes from Shakespeare wide unclassed

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Speaker 1: the tables of their thoughts, and these same thoughts people,

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Speaker 1: this little world. People have put a lot of thought

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Speaker 1: to why she chose those two quotes. I would have

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Speaker 1: a thing on that for a while. We'll get back

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Speaker 1: to you. The house is also rife with iterations of

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Speaker 1: the number thirteen. Like we said earlier, there are some

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Speaker 1: stories that she hired construction workers and shifts of thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Hard to say if that's actually true, but you can't

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Speaker 1: say that it's true in the house because there's evidence

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Speaker 1: thirteen coat hooks, thirteen panels on the ceiling, thirteen bathrooms,

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Speaker 1: but only one functioned to prevent ghosts from haunting it,

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Speaker 1: particularly this what is it called this? Piggott Yeah Um.

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Speaker 1: Decorative spider web patterns appear throughout the house as well,

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Speaker 1: which at the time I believed to be good luck.

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Speaker 1: One staircase near the cure dream as forty four steps

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Speaker 1: and seven turns. The historian we mentioned earlier believes that

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Speaker 1: this has more to do with Sarah's arthritis and less

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Speaker 1: to do with bamboozling spirits. The room that is thought

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Speaker 1: to have been a seance room has one entrance and

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Speaker 1: three exits. One cabinet extends through thirty rooms. I have

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Speaker 1: got to see this place, Samantha. Um. There's a section

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Speaker 1: of the house referred to as the Hall of Fires

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Speaker 1: due to the seven sources of heat feeding into it.

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Speaker 1: Um and that historian thinks again that this has to

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Speaker 1: do with providing relief for Sarah's arthritis, and according to legend,

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Speaker 1: each night she slept in a different bed and took

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Speaker 1: secret passageway to us not to be followed. Some theories

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Speaker 1: suggests she believed that when construction on the house stop,

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Speaker 1: she would die. Other theories positive she thought the earthquake

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Speaker 1: that took out three stories of the house was caused

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Speaker 1: by spirits who realized her project was close to completion.

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Speaker 1: And yet another day puts forward that Sarah was actually

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Speaker 1: a member of a mystic society or mystic societies, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps inspired by Francis Bacon, the English philosopher. In eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: Sarah's niece, Marian Merriman moved in to the house and

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Speaker 1: remained there for fifteen years. At the time of Sarah's

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Speaker 1: death to heart failure in nine two, the house posted

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Speaker 1: a whopping ten thousand windows, two thousand doors, not all

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Speaker 1: that can be walked through, and then yes, the one

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Speaker 1: sixty rooms, which is actually an estimate forty seven series,

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Speaker 1: thirteen bathrooms, six kitchens, three elevators, and two basements. She

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Speaker 1: had invested five point five million dollars in the mansion,

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Speaker 1: and in today's money that would be about seven point

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Speaker 1: seven million, and it's a beautiful piece of Queen and

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Speaker 1: Revival architecture. While she left most of her belongings to

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Speaker 1: relatives and nonprofits, there were thirteen parts to her will.

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Speaker 1: The will did not name anyone as the new owner

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Speaker 1: of the house. She did leave a lot of the

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Speaker 1: furniture to her niece, who auctioned off most of it.

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Speaker 1: One story goes that it took six months to get

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Speaker 1: all of the furniture out um The house itself was

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Speaker 1: auctioned off after praisers declared its strange designed rendered it worthless.

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Speaker 1: So the house was leased by John and Main Brown

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Speaker 1: forty five thousand dollars, who originally planned to build one

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Speaker 1: of the America's first roller coasters on the space, but

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Speaker 1: after the public expressed so much interest in the house itself,

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Speaker 1: they shifted gears, opening up for tours, which is smart.

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Speaker 1: The roller coaster was never built. They opened up Sarah's gardens,

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Speaker 1: calling them Winchester Park, and a few years later the

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Speaker 1: Browns purchased the house outright On how areeen Night in

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Speaker 1: Harry Houdini, the magician, stopped by the mansion to get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of the house's paranormal reputation. Instead, he

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Speaker 1: left feeling even more confused and debbed it the Mystery House.

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Speaker 1: Within a decade it was being marketed as such. So

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, this is a year after it's

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Speaker 1: opened for tours. They already got like a celebrity coming

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Speaker 1: in course, in June, John Brown dies, his wife and

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Speaker 1: two daughters completely take over running tours until Maymie Brown

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Speaker 1: died in ninety one. In the nineteen sixties, a road

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Speaker 1: was renamed Winchester Boulevard and the gardens were closed to

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Speaker 1: make way for Century theaters, and the Winchester Wax Museum

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Speaker 1: opened and the Winchester Mystery House was incorporated. The house

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Speaker 1: was bestowed with State Historic Landmark status and added to

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Speaker 1: the National Registry of Historic Places in nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 1: Throughout the eighties and nineties, the property was updated and

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Speaker 1: new tours added in It was labeled as a San

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Speaker 1: Jose Landmark. The two thousands saw even more renovations, updates,

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Speaker 1: and restorations. In sixteen, a secret attic was discovered containing

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Speaker 1: an organ, a dress form and sewing machine, a couch,

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Speaker 1: and some paintings. Forty forty new rooms were open to

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Speaker 1: the public, and this is why again, the room number

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Speaker 1: is an estimate because they're not sure they've found all

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Speaker 1: the rooms in that dang house. You just want to

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Speaker 1: go to say that for a month, don't you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they'd let me. But if anyone listening

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Speaker 1: as any connections, I'll go with you for sure. Alright,

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Speaker 1: perfect and then yes. The movie starring Helen Murin, called

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Speaker 1: Winchester debut for seventy two hours, the house was closed

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Speaker 1: to tourists for a jam packed filming schedule. Mirren said

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Speaker 1: of Sarah Winchester, she went into mourning and stayed in

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Speaker 1: mourning for the rest of her life. When you lose someone,

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Speaker 1: the losses can be so unbearable, so difficult, that the

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Speaker 1: only way you can deal with your grief is by

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Speaker 1: feeling that they are still with you in some way

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Speaker 1: or another. And if you're interested, the costumes from the

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Speaker 1: movie are on display at the site. They were donated

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Speaker 1: to the site by the filmmakers. So clearly we have

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Speaker 1: an interest with this mystery house, which is so fascinating

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Speaker 1: because she was someone who it seemed, shy away from attention,

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Speaker 1: wasn't into it, And now so many tourists have gone

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Speaker 1: and try to get to the bottom of her motivations.

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Speaker 1: What was she really thinking. We've made up all of

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Speaker 1: these stories about many legends, so many legends. Um. I

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Speaker 1: want to see it so badly. I wonder how many

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Speaker 1: horror films have started with the furniture to being sold

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Speaker 1: and being cards or something. I myself was in a

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Speaker 1: horror movie where it started that way and it did

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Speaker 1: not end well for me. I didn't what a fun

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Speaker 1: death scene that was. Um. Yeah, the just the interest

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Speaker 1: we have with with these kinds of things, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's fascinating, it's it's historical one as well as you

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Speaker 1: never know. The creativity and thought process is fantastic. And

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Speaker 1: it is beautiful. I mean, looking outside before you go in,

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Speaker 1: if you know that it's a mystery house, you can

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Speaker 1: see some signs that there's something kind of wonky going

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Speaker 1: on in there. But from the outside it's just it's

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Speaker 1: beautiful and I can just like imagine her living there, right,

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Speaker 1: And if you've actually visited it, please send us pictures.

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Speaker 1: We would love to see somethingtures if you're able to

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Speaker 1: get any. Um. So now we're at the end, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do our little shout outs. Yeah, I'm gonna shout

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Speaker 1: out to Uh, we're gonna shout out going the history route. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some of our podcasts, So What's Her Name Podcast with

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Speaker 1: host Olivia and Katie talk about fascinating women you may

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Speaker 1: not have heard of, like Mother Shipton and Infamous Witch

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Speaker 1: from England. That was a fun one. And then Notorious

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Speaker 1: Women Podcast which is a fun podcast with Lovetta and

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Speaker 1: Miriam taking a comical look at women in history. And

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Speaker 1: it's super fun if you get to go to listen

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Speaker 1: to those two. So shout out to you guys like

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Speaker 1: your podcast. Yes, um, and if you have any shout

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Speaker 1: outs that you want us to shout out, please send them.

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Speaker 1: Let it all out, send it our way. And for

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Speaker 1: for our listeners who are celebrating Halloween, please have a

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Speaker 1: fun and safe Helloween. If you've got a feminist costume,

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Speaker 1: oh we would love to see those, We would love it.

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Speaker 1: Let's feature those. I was a panda, You were a panda,

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Speaker 1: You were very you were increasingly grumpy, Hot with hand,

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Speaker 1: hot with unicorn corn panda. Yeah, it was great. With

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Speaker 1: my captain, what are you buy? You're my Captain Bucky? Now,

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Speaker 1: Captain Bucky, I was the winner soldier because it's my

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Speaker 1: favorite costume and you didn't get to see it at

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Speaker 1: Dragon Con, so I had to share you too good

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Speaker 1: to Oh, thank you. That's all I live for. You

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Speaker 1: can send to those costume pictures, or your shout outs

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Speaker 1: or anything else to our email address, Stuff Media mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff at i heeart media dot com. You can also

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Speaker 1: find us on Twitter or at mom Stuff podcast, or

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Speaker 1: on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks as

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Speaker 1: always to a super producer, Andrew Howard. Thank you, Andrew,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told

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Speaker 1: You the production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart

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Speaker 1: Radio app Apple Podcasts, wherever you listen to your favorite

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Speaker 1: shows