1 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Sex Podcast. 2 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: My guest today is singer songwriter Jack Tempchin. Jack. Good 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast. Let's start right at 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: the beginning. How'd you write peaceful, easy feeling? 5 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: Well? Do you want the truth or the story that 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: I always tell? 7 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: Well? 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 2: Tell both? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. The truth is I 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: don't actually remember, but I remember part of it. I 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: had a buddy of mine made a poster advertising me 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,919 Speaker 2: when I played in coffeehouses in San Diego, where where 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 2: I've always lived, and the poster had quotes from people 13 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: like Joni Mitchell said a real man and stuff like that, 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: which he just made up. He made up this poster. 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 2: So a guy in El Centro had a coffee house 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: and he hired me to play. I went out to 17 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 2: El Centro, and you know, like Warren Zevon's song says, 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: I went home with the waitress the way I always 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 2: do well, I always tried to go home with a waitress, 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: and this one said, yeah, okay, I'll come back later 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: and get you and take you to my place. So 22 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: I told the people I was with I wasn't going 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: to need a ride or a place to stay. Well, 24 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: she never came back, and I ended up in this 25 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: little It was in a little strip mall. It was 26 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: this coffee house called the Aquarius, and I just ended 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: up sleeping on the linoleum floor all night and no girl. 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: But I had the guitar and so I started writing 29 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 2: on the back of this poster and I wrote a 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. And you know when you start writing 31 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: a song, which stops most people, the fact is that 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: you had a bunch of stuff that's no good and 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 2: it's really stupid. Then all of a sudden, you look 34 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: back and you go, hey, that was a good phrase, 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: and you kind of start from there. So the phrase peaceful, 36 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: easy feeling popped out, and I guess it was kind 37 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 2: of about my friend at the time was into zen 38 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: and this is kind of really early, and there was 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: these concepts like, you know, if you let go of something, 40 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 2: that gives your hand free to get something else, and 41 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: it's only when you stop looking for stuff that you 42 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: can find it, and so that was kind of the 43 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: ideas like, yeah, the girl didn't show up, I'm not 44 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 2: going to be in love with her, but I'm fine, 45 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 2: everything's going to be fine. So I got back to 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 2: San Diego, and I went to a street fair and 47 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: I was walking around and I saw this beautiful girl 48 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 2: with these turquoise earrings, so I put her in the song. 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: And then later I was on in San Diego and 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 2: Washington Boulevard at a place called the Der Wiener Schnitzel. 51 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: It changed now to Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah. 52 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't know why they changed it. I mean, I 53 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: can understand it. Originally it was Wiener Schnitzel, but we 54 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: were all accustomed to Der Wiener Schnitzel. Yeah. 55 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: And the other funny thing is, forty years later they 56 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: had a celebration for me there because I wrote the 57 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 2: last verse of the song sitting there waiting for the 58 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: Polish Dog. And I was amazed, of all the things 59 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 2: in San Diego that that place was still there forty 60 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 2: years later, the Der Wiener Snitzel, you know, which was 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: now Wiener Schnitzel. And by the way, they gave me 62 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: that day, they presented me with a solid gold Wiener. 63 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: Literally solid gold, just not painted gold. 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: Well, there's at least gold plated. I have it out 65 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: in my studio. 66 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: And well, I was to say, you know, if we 67 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: hit the apocalypse and it's solid gold old. 68 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: You could live off that. I could use that. 69 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: So anyway, continue, So you go back to San Diela, 70 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: go to the street fair. You're waiting for your Polish dog. 71 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: It's der wiener Stitzel. 72 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: And then I saw another girl and I wrote the 73 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 2: last verse sitting there at that table. And they put 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 2: a plaque that day in the table, and I was 75 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: very happy to learn later somebody stole the plaque wow table, 76 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: so they must have cared. And I guess I was 77 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 2: ten years ago, because now it's been fifty years. But 78 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 2: I always say, you know, if you were a young 79 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: woman walking around forty years ago by the Dreweener Snitzl, 80 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: the song could be about you and you'll never even know. 81 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 2: And so basically that's the story of how I wrote it. 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: And then I I was up in La Well, before 83 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: you get up in La Yeaka, you talk about the 84 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 2: song being written over a period of time, three different verses. 85 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: The question is what were you eking it out or 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: did all three come from inspiration or did you do 87 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: like you said earlier, were you just pick and chows 88 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: what actually worked from what you'd done previously. 89 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: Well, so in those days I had a Stella guitar 90 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 2: that I bought in a pawn shop in San Diego 91 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 2: for thirteen bucks and came with the string for the strap. 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 2: And I walked around all the time. I always had 93 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: that thing with me, and I'd walk around and sing. 94 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: And so I wrote the song continuously over about three 95 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: or four days. So I was just kept singing it 96 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 2: and adding things, you know, to answer your question, until 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: I got the last verse, and then I had it. 98 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: You know, Okay, just a couple of things. Is that 99 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: typical of you that the song evolves? I know you're 100 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: doing your Beach series now, which is similar to that. 101 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Or is it a bolt of 102 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: inspiration or is it sitting down I have to write 103 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: a song or is it all of it? 104 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: It's all of it. I guess it's different with every 105 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: song now. I did try putting myself on a schedule. 106 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: At one point, I'm gonna go out every day and 107 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 2: write songs for two weeks, and I'm gonna it's not 108 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: the same. I did song a day and that was different. 109 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 2: But I just thought I'll do it on a schedule, 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: and I did it for a couple of weeks. I 111 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: looked at all the songs. I didn't like them, so 112 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: threw away that idea. But the songs, you just get 113 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: an idea. Sometimes I'm writing with people, but you just 114 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: get an idea and you just follow it. 115 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: Okay, well, well we'll get a little deeper as we 116 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: go on. But peaceful, easy Feeling is now done. Is 117 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: it just another song you wrote or do you say, no, 118 00:06:58,760 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: this one's special. 119 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm playing it for my buddy and I'm I'm 120 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 2: finger I'm flat picking it, and then all of a sudden, 121 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: I finger pick it, you know, and he goes, oh, yeah, 122 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: now you got something that's really cool, you know. And 123 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 2: then later, of course, after Glenn Fry heard it, he 124 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: went back to flat picking it, you know. But those 125 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: were just the changes. And no, I did not know 126 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: that everyone in the world was going to like the song. 127 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: In fact, I was positive was never going to be 128 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 2: a hit song. It didn't have the love chorus. I 129 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: just I liked it, but I did not. But the 130 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: other point is, in those days I was in folk 131 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: music and one of my buddies said, you know, Jack, 132 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: there's hundreds of dollars to be made in this folk music. 133 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: So and I thought of it. Recently, the fact that 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: the idea that you were ever going to have a 135 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: song on the radio or make money from a song 136 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: was completely foreign to us at that point. You know, 137 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: I just wrote the song because I was playing in 138 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: these coffee houses and they all closed in nineteen seventy two. So, 139 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: just to clarify, a coffee house was a place where 140 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: they played folk music and they had no alcohol. You know, 141 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: it was apple cider, and I was playing it three 142 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 2: or four of those. So it was just to have 143 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: songs to sing that I wrote them, and I don't know, 144 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 2: I don't know why. I was just into writing them. 145 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 2: And okay, but I cut you off. So you went 146 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: up to La the troubadour Tell me about that. Well, first, 147 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 2: I was going to say that, to follow the thread 148 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 2: of that song. At some point, I was staying at 149 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 2: Jackson Brown's house. He oh that way too fast. Okay, 150 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,119 Speaker 2: way too fast. You're in San Diego. 151 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: Jackson Brown from Orange County moves to LA just because 152 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: people traveled. How did you know Jackson Brown? Was it 153 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: a community at this point or was he just the 154 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: one guy you knew? 155 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 2: Well? I played at a place called the Candy Company Folk, 156 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: a folk house, and Jackson came to play there. And also, 157 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 2: this is before quite a while before he recorded anything, 158 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: but I already had heard his songs. I knew. I 159 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: actually played a song for Adam, and I played these Days, 160 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: and I didn't ever play anyone else's songs. So I 161 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 2: heard those and thought they were great. So I met John. 162 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm interested because I how did you hear a song 163 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: for Adam? You know? 164 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know anymore. It wasn't when he 165 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: came down. I already knew the song. So I think 166 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: people just had heard these songs on the folk circuit 167 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: and had learned them and were just doing him. And 168 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 2: now that's how I heard. 169 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: Them, because these Days had covers. I don't remember a 170 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: cover of songs for aut him. But continue he comes 171 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: down to the club, you already know these songs. 172 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's where I met him. 173 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: And then. 174 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 2: And the same thing happened with the duo Long Branch 175 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: Penny Whistle. They came to that club and played, and 176 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: I asked them if they were really good? And I 177 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: like those guys. And the place they were going to 178 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: stay was a place where the lady liked to have 179 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: what we used to call in counter groups in that 180 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: era where you'd sit around and they'd pick your brains 181 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: and try to destabilize you so they could take over 182 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: your mind. And then the facilitator would sleep with all 183 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 2: the women in the in the group, you know. So 184 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 2: that was I said, you guys, don't want to go 185 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: do that, and they go, now, we really don't. So 186 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: I had a large house had rented with five bedrooms, 187 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: and there was a hippie pad, we had washed up 188 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 2: base in the living room, and my brother and I 189 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 2: had a candle shop in the garage, and so they 190 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: came to stay with us, and every time they came 191 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: to San Diego, it was Glenn Fry and JD Souther 192 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: who were in this long Bench Penny Whistle, and so 193 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 2: we became really good friends over time, and so that's 194 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 2: how I met Jackson, and also Glenn and j D. 195 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: And then at some point Glenn and JD were living 196 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 2: in Silver Lake and Jackson was living right below them, 197 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 2: so I stayed up there several times. 198 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: Okay, before you get to that point, Yeah, people don't 199 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: know how hard it is to make it, and generally 200 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: the people who make it least on the way up 201 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: are networking. Did you say, while these people are coming 202 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: through the club, I need to know them. How did 203 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: you make the connection? 204 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 2: Hm? Well, like I always say as a joke, people go, 205 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 2: how do you make it? And I go, well, just 206 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: find some guy. I get to know him and work 207 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: with him about five or ten years before he gets 208 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 2: really famous. It's not that hard, you know. But the 209 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 2: real uh, the reality is I was drawn to these 210 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 2: people because of my passion for the music, and I 211 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 2: just they had it, you know. And uh and I 212 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 2: was just drawn to them and anybody else who I 213 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 2: thought was great, you know, So you just naturally fall 214 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 2: in with those people. 215 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: Okay, you were doing you were on that circuit. Anybody 216 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: who was great who didn't make it? 217 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: Uh, well that's yes, yes, of course there's always people 218 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 2: like that because there's so much more to making it 219 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: than just your talent. There's a guy, Ray Burrow, you know. 220 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: So I played at a coffeehouse called the Heritage. The 221 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: doorman was Tom Waits, and he was not a player. 222 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 2: He was the doorman and he collected the tickets and anyway, 223 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 2: this an aside. He was a photographer and liked to 224 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 2: take pictures of the homeless guys downtown. Great photographs, but 225 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: they got a piano in the club, so he would 226 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 2: stay after hours and practice the piano, and one by 227 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: one he sold his cameras to pay for piano lessons, 228 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he was doing these 229 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 2: songs like Hope that I Don't Fall in Love with 230 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: You and Martha and But there was a guy, Ray Burrow, 231 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 2: and he used to play there all the time, and 232 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: Tom and I both would steal any song he came 233 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: up with. He didn't write, but he he had fantastic 234 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 2: songs he would find, so I guess just didn't have 235 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: the ambition. He's still around, He's made maybe one album. 236 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: It's incredibly great. But you know, Tom and I stayed 237 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 2: in the music, but he didn't. And then I've known 238 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: a lot of guys who were super talented. They're in 239 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 2: every town, everywhere, but they don't have they don't have 240 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: the personality. A lot of people are just as soon 241 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: as they get close to the flame of fame, they 242 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: run away, you know what I mean. They can't handle it, 243 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: and it takes a huge collection of talents to really 244 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: make it happen. Ambition, you know, dealing with people, aligning 245 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: yourself with other great people to make the music and 246 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: all that. 247 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so let's go back to Peaceful Easy Feeling. 248 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: You went up to stay with Jackson in silver Lake. 249 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: Well, I stay with Glenn and j D and Silverlake. 250 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: But then later they had run into David Geffen, and 251 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: these guys were always helping me, and they helped me 252 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: all the way through, and so they were going to 253 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 2: introduce me to Geffen. So that's why later after they 254 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: moved from silver Lake, I was staying at Jackson's house 255 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: and Glenn came over and I was in Jackson's piano 256 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: room where he had the curtains closed all the time 257 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: because he didn't want anybody seeing or hearing while he practiced. 258 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: And I was in there playing Peaceful Easy Feeling, and 259 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: Glenn came in and he said, what's that? So he 260 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 2: recorded the song on a cassette recorder, which let's just 261 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: pretend that people know what that is, you know, And 262 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 2: then he said, jack I got a new band, and 263 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: we've been together about eight days, so so let me 264 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: work this song up. I go. 265 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 266 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: So he came back the next day with the cassette 267 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: recorder and played me the Eagles doing a Peaceful Easy 268 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: feeling on this cassette recorder, you know. And then I 269 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 2: about a week later, I went and I saw them 270 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 2: rehearse in this tiny little room and I saw Don 271 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: Henley saying, you don't miss your water to your well 272 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: runs dry as he's playing the drums, and I'm just going, map, 273 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 2: who is this guy? This is like incredible. But that's 274 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 2: how the Eagles got the song. 275 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: And Okay, how long before the record came out? And 276 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: how'd you find out it was going to be on 277 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: the record. 278 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it all happened pretty quickly. 279 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 2: And Glenn said, we're gonna get all these record execs 280 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: in here in the room. We're going to put them 281 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 2: right in front of us and play. And then I 282 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: guess they got a deal. And I don't know, it 283 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 2: wasn't It didn't seem like it was that long. And 284 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 2: then Glenn, Uh, I'm still living in San Diego. So 285 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 2: then Glenn came back from recording the record, and he 286 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: had a two track tape, you know, And I was 287 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: the only guy in San Diego who had a tape recorder. 288 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 2: I had a Revox and so that was the standard 289 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 2: back then. Revox was the that was the King of 290 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: the Hill and just two tracks one mic boom and uh. 291 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: So he came over my house and a bunch of 292 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: the people from uh that were my roommates at the 293 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: hippie Pad, you know, we all sat around and he 294 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: played the two track tape of the first Eagles record. 295 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: So the first I'm sitting there and the first song 296 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: is take It easy Going. 297 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: Man. 298 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: Wow, that is the best thing I've ever heard. 299 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: It's incredible. 300 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 2: Then the next song is Witchy Woman and I wing oh, man, 301 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 2: that is the best thing I ever heard. And then 302 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 2: the third song is Peaceful, easy Feeling, and I'm going 303 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: this is the best album I've ever heard already, you know. 304 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 2: So so there it was boom. You know. 305 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: Okay, let's dig a little deeper. Did anybody try to 306 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 1: get your publishing or did you remain the owner of 307 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: the song. 308 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: Well, so what happened was they introduced me to David 309 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 2: Geffen and he was going to take care of me. 310 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, so those were here quotes. 311 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: This is an audio thing. Yeah, yeah, he's taking care 312 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: of me. So he put all of us into Warner 313 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: Brothers Publishing, and so all my songs that time went 314 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: into Warner Brothers and they're still there now. When Azof 315 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 2: started working with the Eagles, he got all their publishing 316 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: back from Warner Brothers, so they own it. But he 317 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 2: didn't get my publishing or JD's or Jackson's publishing back 318 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 2: for those songs. So yeah, so they still owe those songs. 319 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 2: And so in. 320 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: A typical publishing deal, there's one hundred cents on the dollar, 321 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: they get fifty cents. You get fifty cents. 322 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they get fifteen percent of my fifty 323 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 2: cents for administering. And they never placed anything or did anything, 324 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: you know. And then other people have gotten their copyrights 325 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: back right since I wrote it prior to nineteen seventy two. 326 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: For some ridiculous reason I don't understand. I have to 327 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: wait five ten more years before I can get my 328 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 2: song back, and they'll probably not want to give it back, 329 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: you know. 330 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: So usually what they do is you come up with 331 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: a number for them to keep it. But we aren't 332 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: there yet. So is the revenue for peaceful easy feeling? 333 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: Even though you get thirty five percent out of one 334 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: hundred percent, is that enough to pay your bills? 335 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? It has kept me going all these years. And 336 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 2: in the first few years I made a lot of money, 337 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: but Reagan was the president and the taxes were about, 338 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 2: I think over eighty percent, you know. And I went 339 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: to the accountants that I had now, I said, well, 340 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 2: rich people, when they get a lot of money, they 341 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 2: don't have to pay all these taxes, do they? And 342 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: they go, yeah, you do. There's no way to get 343 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 2: out of it. And other people did these oil futures 344 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: and cattle ranches, you know, designed to who avoid the 345 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 2: taxes that I didn't do that. My philosophy has always been, 346 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: now you just pay all the tax and move on. 347 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: But those people years later, they caught up with them 348 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: and took back all that money. So but yes, and 349 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 2: I don't think the same thing. Maybe the same thing 350 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 2: could happen today. I don't know what people how people 351 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 2: can do today. 352 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: Let's go back a little bit. Whatever happens, the album 353 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: comes out, this is the spring A seventy two or three? Whatever? 354 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and how long. 355 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: Until you see a check let spring A seventy two. 356 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, might have been Oh well, let's see. 357 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 2: So in seventy two, David Geffen was paying me two 358 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty bucks a month as a as a songwriter, somehow, 359 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: and so I, my girlfriend and I were traveling in 360 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: our Volkswagen bus and we go to general delivery at 361 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 2: each town and pick up my check. So that went on. 362 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 2: We traveled for about a year, and so I think 363 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 2: it was about a year before I saw the first 364 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: first check. 365 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: And was the money coming in the inspiration for the 366 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: trip or the trip would have happened? 367 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 2: No, No, Well, the money, the two hundred and fifty 368 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 2: a month was a big deal because it was like, hey, 369 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 2: and the other thing. I was just singing on the 370 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: street where we stopped somewhere to get some money for 371 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: food stuff. So that two hundred and fifty was important. 372 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 2: But then when we got back, I remember, I think 373 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: the first check I ever got was something like eight 374 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: thousand dollars and it was just like staggering, you know. 375 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 2: I just thought, this has to be a mistake, you know, 376 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: So that so let's go wild till I got it. 377 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: And when you got to check for eight thousand dollars, 378 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: you treat yourself to anything. 379 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think I think I just put 380 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 2: in the bank and I had borrowed money from my 381 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 2: folks to buy a piano, so I probably paid them 382 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: back at seven and forty bucks, you know. 383 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: Okay, on the second album, I think it's second album 384 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: or a third album. All fifty five is on there. 385 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: Did Glenn Fry meet Tom Waits as a result of 386 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: him being the doorman in the club. 387 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: No, no, don't. I don't think so. I don't think 388 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 2: he ever met Tom. He certainly didn't meet him there 389 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 2: because Glenn Fry wasn't around the Heritage Club. So but 390 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 2: I guess they just liked the song. They'd heard that 391 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: song and loved it. 392 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: Okay. So then everyone talks about this personality that he, 393 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: Glenn Fry had, that he was the most the coolest guy, 394 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 1: the popular guy, the guy who made things happen. What 395 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: was your experience of. 396 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: Him all that and more, you know, especially looking back, 397 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 2: you know, and most of the time that I spent 398 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 2: with him, we were we were the best of friends, 399 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: you know, for about forty seven years, so from from 400 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: way before he was famous, and and he was all 401 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 2: of that, you know, and and a stand up guy 402 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, who would be true to his words, show 403 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: up for you. It was kind of weird because to me, 404 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: most of the time I spent with him, it was 405 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 2: just me and Glenn because we were writing or whatever, 406 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,159 Speaker 2: you know. So it wasn't like and I never worked 407 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 2: for him. Some people worked for him, They go, oh, 408 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, but I was just partners. We were 409 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: just partners with the writing and who I don't know. 410 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: You know, looking back, he was just an incredible person. 411 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 2: He had this huge amount of skills that you don't 412 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: see when you look at a person. You know, he 413 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: was like a sports guy who could put together a 414 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 2: team and motivate everybody and pick the right players to 415 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 2: the right positions, have him to do the right things, 416 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: as well as being an incredible musician and azof said 417 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: Glenn Fry taught him a lot about business. I mean, 418 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 2: it's amazing. I just saw him as a guy like me, 419 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 2: a folky guy like me. And when I met him, 420 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 2: I didn't even know that he played bass, that he 421 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 2: sang harmony, that he did all these others. So you 422 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 2: don't see the depth of people. And plus he was 423 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 2: an incredibly fun loving guy and the funniest guy that 424 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 2: I ever knew. He was incredibly funny all the time. 425 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,639 Speaker 2: So I don't know, there it is. I was lucky 426 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 2: to know him. 427 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're born in Ohio, before you're really conscious. 428 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: In a matter of months, you moved to San Diego. 429 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: Why'd you move to San Diego? Why'd your parents moved 430 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: to San Diego? 431 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure. I don't know. It was after 432 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: the war. My dad was on track before the war 433 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 2: to be a baseball player and he was doing really well. 434 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 2: Then the war happened and that was over. So they 435 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 2: moved to San Diego and he got a job as 436 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 2: a milkman and did that the whole time I was 437 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: growing up. And that was a tough job. You had 438 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 2: to get up at four in the morning and they 439 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 2: delivered milk to your house. And this is before refrigerated trucks, 440 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 2: so it was ice. You had to load physically load 441 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: in all the ice and all the stuff. And you know, 442 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 2: he pretty soon had three kids, and so there was 443 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 2: no way out of that. He had to just keep 444 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 2: doing that, you know. And my mom, once we were 445 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 2: all in school, she went back to school, got a 446 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: master's and became a high school teacher. But he didn't 447 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 2: have the opportunity. And I just looked at that and said, 448 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 2: I don't want to get stuck in a job for 449 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: my whole life. I got to find some way of 450 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 2: not doing that myself and every other hippie on the planet. 451 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 1: You know. Okay, I think I'm correct. You don't have 452 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: any children. 453 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, I do. I have a son. 454 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: Oh how old is your son? 455 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 2: He's forty? And I have two granddaughters. 456 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: Okay, So if your son was born in the eighties, 457 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: to what degree did you consciously not have children, because 458 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: it would have you'd want to get locked in like 459 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: your father. 460 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: I'll tell you. We didn't have kids for ten years 461 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: and then and then we decided to so, which was 462 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 2: only people in our general. We were the first generation 463 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,959 Speaker 2: that could make that choice, really, you know. And then 464 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: we turned out we can only have one or I 465 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 2: would have had more. So, but I want to announce 466 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 2: that my two granddaughters, who are four and six years old, 467 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: a couple of days ago wrote their first song. And 468 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: I haven't heard it yet. But you know, Neil Young, 469 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 2: I read an interview they said what's the most important 470 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 2: thing about a song? And he said, oh, the location 471 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: where you write it. Now, I had never heard that before. 472 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 2: That was an intriguing idea. Well, so my granddaughters wrote 473 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 2: this song that I haven't heard yet. They went under 474 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: the bed under the bed where the adults can't go, 475 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 2: and that's where they were the song. So we'll see 476 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: see what happened. 477 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: What does your son do for a living. 478 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 2: He's an accountant. 479 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So there are three kids in the family. 480 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: How many boys, how many girls? And where are you 481 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: in the hierarchy? 482 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 2: I'm the oldest, and then I have a younger brother 483 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: and then an even younger sister. 484 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: And what are your brother and sister up to? 485 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: Well, they're kind of retired. My sister counsel's people. And 486 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: my brother was physical plant manager for a hospital and 487 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: a school, and that's a person who takes care of 488 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 2: every physical item on the campus, all the houses, the 489 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 2: steamlines with a hospital, all the wiring everything, So he 490 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: can do all that and I do none of that, 491 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: but he can fix anything, build a city. And they're 492 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: both incredible people. So I'm very lucky. 493 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: So what kind of student? 494 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 2: Were you? 495 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: Good or bad? With grades? And were you popular? Were 496 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 1: the shy kid? What we like? 497 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: Well, I think I was a nerd before nerd was 498 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: a word, and I was in the advanced class. You know, 499 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: they had these you took a test and you were 500 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: advanced or not. And then so I was in a 501 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: group of other kids that were supposed to be smart, 502 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: and I was not good at any sports. So I 503 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 2: didn't have that going for me. But I still had 504 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 2: a good I had a good thing at in school. 505 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 2: It was okay, I don't know. So one day, one 506 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 2: day in high school, about senior year, one kid started 507 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 2: growing his hair really long, and this big, giant football 508 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: guy came up to him and said, Hey, how come 509 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 2: your hair's so long? You looked like a girl. And 510 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: the guy, Wayne McCracken, said, Hey, I'm expressing my individuality. 511 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: And so the big guy John said, oh, oh you are. 512 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: And then like the next week he started growing his hair, 513 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: and then and then that was my gang and we 514 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: were long haired hippies from then on, you know. 515 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: So, okay, was this a result of the Beatles you 516 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 1: were growing your hair? 517 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 2: No, I had nothing to do, you know, I don't know. 518 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: So when did you graduate from high school? 519 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 2: Sixty five? 520 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: Sixty five? Okay, here's that book. Whatever happened to the 521 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: class of sixty five? What turned you on to music? 522 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: Well? I was just into it because but my parents 523 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: had a record player and there was Oklahoma, you know, 524 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 2: the music. There was Harry Belafonte. Most people in the country, 525 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: a third of the people in the country had Harry 526 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: Belafonte albums, and we would dance and sing around to that. 527 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 2: So I was into it, and I would walk up 528 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 2: and down the street whistling every song I could think of. 529 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: But then I was at a party in high school 530 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 2: somebody played the first Bob Dylan record and everybody goes, 531 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, and I was going, yes, yes, that's it, 532 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 2: that's really cool. But I didn't play guitar until I 533 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 2: was about eighteen or nineteen because other people were doing it, 534 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 2: and so most all the other musicians I know, by 535 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 2: the time they were eighteen, they'd already been in bands, 536 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 2: you know. So I started really late. And then I 537 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: went to the coffee house and I would play a song, 538 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: like try to play a blue song I heard, and 539 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: my friends would go, what did you do to that song? 540 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 2: What is that? 541 00:32:59,120 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: You know? 542 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 2: So I'm just saying. I met this guy, Joe Faulkner, 543 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: and we'd get stone and sit on the beach and 544 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: he would start playing a little pattern and he would 545 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 2: just make up songs for an hour. You go, look, 546 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: there's a city in the burning clouds, and we're watching 547 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: the sunset, and he would just go on and on 548 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 2: and they were incredible songs. And one day I said, Joe, 549 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: maybe we ought to write one of these down or something, 550 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: you know, and he just looked at me and said, man, 551 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 2: that would ruin it. 552 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: That would ruin it. 553 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 2: So I kind of got the idea from him, so 554 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 2: I started writing. I just started making up my own songs. 555 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 2: Nobody could tell if I screwed him up or not. 556 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: So okay. 557 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: You know, living on the East Coast in that era, 558 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: California was a dream and this was before you now, 559 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: this is when you could be localized as opposed to 560 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: everybody knowing everything. So what was San Diego like in 561 00:33:58,560 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties. 562 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: Well, it was an outlier. There wasn't a fifties and sixties. Yeah, 563 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 2: it was. It was a the fifties life. I mean, 564 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 2: they built the first shopping mall right down by my house. 565 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 2: Of course I didn't know. It was the first college 566 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 2: grove and then the whole shopping mall thing that became, 567 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 2: you know, the United States culture, and it was just 568 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: like you're in the fifties. We had it so good 569 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 2: because only one of your parents had to work, and 570 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 2: we just thought all that was normal. And then later 571 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 2: on and then you could be a hippie. When I 572 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 2: moved out, we could just go to the back of 573 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 2: the grocery store and they were throwing away tons of 574 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 2: food and we would just get it, bring it to 575 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 2: the hippie pad and cook it up. But that was 576 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 2: the beginning of the sixties. But the fifties was just 577 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 2: like kind of like Ozzie and Harriet or you know, 578 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 2: just a whole different thing. 579 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: Was there any doubt you were going to go to college. 580 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 2: Well, not so much. 581 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: You know. 582 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 2: I went on a fast track to UCSD because Sputnick 583 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 2: had gone up and I was into science and I 584 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 2: had good grades, and I dropped out in a quarter 585 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 2: because guess what, it was really a lot of work. 586 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 2: I just was not into that work. You know. You 587 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 2: had to go to the class. You know, you're supposed 588 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: to learn French in one year at the same time 589 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: as you're doing calculus, and then in the social sciences 590 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 2: class you only have three classes in that when you 591 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 2: had to read a book a week and write a 592 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: report on it. One a book by young you know 593 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: what I mean. And I was going no, I was 594 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 2: used to just skating by. So I dropped out in 595 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 2: a hitchhike to Texas to see a girl. 596 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: And how did you know a girl in Texas? 597 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: Well, she had been in San Diego and then she 598 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 2: moved to Texas. 599 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: Okay, well we all hitchhiked back in that era. Yeah, 600 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: how much was lonely? You were on the side of 601 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: street waiting for ride. You went Texas with your different 602 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: San Diego. What was it like hitch hiking to Texas? 603 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 2: Oh? Man, it was quite an adventure. And I did 604 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 2: quite a bit of hitch hiking. But this was by myself, 605 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 2: and it was lonely and it was cold. And then 606 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 2: I got to I got to her place. She lived 607 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 2: in Far Texas p H A R R. And I 608 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 2: checked in this little hotel and and it was Christmas. 609 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 2: It was Christmas night, so I said, she said, oh yeah, 610 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 2: we're doing Christmas over here. So so I thought, okay, 611 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 2: I'll be by myself, and so I just took some 612 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 2: LSD and and then about an hour later she called said, 613 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 2: oh yeah, my mom says come over. So I come 614 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 2: over and I'm just like anyway, that was a memorable moment. 615 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: And then hitchhiking back I don't know. I just remember 616 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 2: being freezy cold and you meet a lot of people 617 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 2: and I guess you can't do it now, but it 618 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 2: was You're right. 619 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: We all did this actually, I you know, because you 620 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: also you had to pick people up and return. And 621 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: I remember in nineteen seventy four I picked up these 622 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: guys with their skateboarders skateboards and they started telling me 623 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 1: where to drive and they went on and there were 624 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: three of them in one of me. That was the 625 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: last time I picked people up. Yeah, man, it's there, okay. 626 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: But you also talked about drugs. You know, a lot 627 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: of people across America really didn't mean to marijuana till 628 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,919 Speaker 1: the late sixties. So how did you get turned onto 629 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: marijuana and LSD. 630 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 2: H Well, my friend who was a who was into zend, 631 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 2: he had he had researched drugs on the Internet and 632 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 2: things like PAOD and stuff, and we had found out 633 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 2: that that there was this stuff called LSD which was 634 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 2: contained in morning glory seeds. So there'd be like if 635 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: you take the three and seventy four morning glory seeds 636 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 2: and they have to be heavenly blue morning glories. They 637 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 2: can't be pearly white they have to be the right color, 638 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 2: and you grind them up then you can get them. 639 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 2: You get them down and you're going to throw them 640 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,959 Speaker 2: up later. But if you hold them down long enough, 641 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 2: they have LSD. And that was my first experience with 642 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 2: any drug, was taken those and having this full on 643 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 2: LSD trip. 644 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: And then. 645 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: About two weeks later at the park besides the high school, 646 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: that was the first time I smoked a joint. So 647 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: I actually had LSD first before anything else. 648 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: Okay, going back to Texas, so you show up figuring 649 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,960 Speaker 1: this is going to be great. Yeah, how was it 650 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: between you and the girl? 651 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 2: Well, nothing much. It was a nice little visit, but nothing. 652 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 2: Nothing materialized there. So I came back and then I 653 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 2: started going to a junior college and then worked my 654 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: way up to San Diego State College, which is now 655 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 2: a university. 656 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 1: So did you graduate? 657 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 2: I did. I went in. I had so many units 658 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 2: of different kinds they gave me a triple major and 659 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 2: said you can get out of here now. So that's 660 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 2: and by the way, as far as drugs, I want 661 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 2: to mention that I did. I did get busted and 662 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 2: had a had a large jury trial and you know, 663 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 2: and all that which is amazing considering now I can 664 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 2: go into a supermarket size dispensary and just buy some pot. 665 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: And I've got my own brand of pot coming out 666 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 2: in January. Peaceful, easy feeling cannabis is going to be 667 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 2: for sale in Dreams dispensaries in New Mexico. So I 668 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: don't know, it's just kind of an amazing turnaround. 669 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't know fifty years ago, six not quite 670 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: sixty to talk about legalizing dope, the fact that it 671 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,759 Speaker 1: happened in our lifetime. Black Man was president. 672 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,320 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, but it took way longer, way longer 673 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 2: than we thought it was going to be any year, 674 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 2: and then it was like forty to fifty years. 675 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about getting busted in. What you felt 676 00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 1: and what your parents thought. 677 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was horrible. And after the gig, my 678 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: friend and I went and sat on a park bench. 679 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 2: We're smoking some weed and I'm going We're just sitting there, going, yeah, man, 680 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 2: this is in the middle of the park. Nothing can 681 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 2: happen here. And all of a sudden, this police car 682 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 2: swoops down and boom, they got us. And I took 683 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 2: the little bag leading through it on the ground, you know, 684 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 2: so they arrested us spent a couple of nights in jail. 685 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 2: I finally my parents found out. And then one of 686 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 2: my relatives was married to an assemblyman who recommended an 687 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 2: attorney for me, and so I got this attorney. And 688 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 2: my friend, who was from Canada, he just he had 689 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 2: a public defender, but then he later hired the guy 690 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,240 Speaker 2: for the same amount of money. But my attorney was great, 691 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 2: his attorney was not, and so I got off and 692 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 2: then he got found guilty and sent back to Canada. 693 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 2: So there that ended his music career in the US. 694 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 2: But my attorney was a guy named Peter Hughes, and 695 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,440 Speaker 2: he was a prosecutor who had never lost the case. 696 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 2: It was like a fantasy. And he had just turned 697 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 2: decided to be a defense attorney, and he came he 698 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 2: came up with this thing where the pot was on 699 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 2: the ground. So he went to the judge. He said, 700 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 2: you have to split these two cases. You can't try 701 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 2: these guys together. And once he split it, he said, well, 702 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 2: you can't prove that the pot was his. It could 703 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 2: have been the other guys. So the judge instructed the 704 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 2: jury that they had to find me not guilty. It 705 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 2: was like a Perry Mason or something. 706 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: Okay, how much did the attorney cost and who paid him? 707 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 2: I think my folks paid him. It was seven hundred 708 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 2: and fifty bucks. 709 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: Well that's relatively cheap even back then. Yeah, okay, so 710 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: you're in college, to what degree? Are you playing out? 711 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 2: Really a lot every chance I could? Yeah, So I had. 712 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 2: There was about four or five places, and they each 713 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 2: had what they called a hoot night, which was open 714 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,520 Speaker 2: mic night, and eventually I would run the hoop night 715 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 2: and get you know, I get paid a fortune light, 716 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,880 Speaker 2: you know, fifteen bucks. And so I did three or 717 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 2: four of those a week, and that's how I amassed 718 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 2: the amount of money to pay my rent stuff. So 719 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 2: I was doing that a lot. 720 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: You graduate across that hurdle than what. 721 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 2: Gee, I'm trying to think what happened? I just oh, yes, 722 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,399 Speaker 2: So I went back to Right before I graduated, San 723 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 2: Diego State College had built a student center and they 724 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 2: had a bowling alley in the bottom, but they didn't 725 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 2: have enough money to finish it. So I turned it 726 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:14,280 Speaker 2: into a folk club and my brother and I built 727 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 2: a big sound booth. It was a huge room, and 728 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:23,080 Speaker 2: I started booking that and doing that and At one 729 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,759 Speaker 2: point we decided to carpet the whole place. So I 730 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,480 Speaker 2: found that when they take the carpet out of people's 731 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,000 Speaker 2: houses at the carpet place, they take the old carpet out, 732 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:34,760 Speaker 2: and what they were doing was that they just piled 733 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 2: it up in the backyard. It was like a fifty 734 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,960 Speaker 2: foot pile. So I thought, oh, they let me have it. 735 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 2: So I took all these carpet, these carpets to the place, 736 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 2: and I needed help, and Glenn Fry was staying with me, 737 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 2: so he came with me, and he and I hauled 738 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 2: all these carpets over to the over to this place 739 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,279 Speaker 2: which was called the back Door. So I ran that 740 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 2: for about a year, and that convinced me that I'd 741 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 2: rather be the player than the guy that runs the club. 742 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: And so there was no issue of going straight after college. 743 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: This is what you were going to do. 744 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, as long as I could keep making a living 745 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 2: at it, I guess it was my plan. And what 746 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 2: about the candle shop, Oh, that just did that for 747 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 2: a few years, sold candles at the Delmar Fair. It 748 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 2: was really a lot of fun. But then that let 749 00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,279 Speaker 2: that go. You know, where'd you get the candles from? Oh? Well, 750 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 2: we made them, you know, that's the whole deal. We 751 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 2: got the wax and we hauled sand from the beach 752 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 2: and have these big pits. And we went to Alcohola 753 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 2: and found a huge old wax melting machine and we 754 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 2: made sand candles and they were gloriously cool and sold out. 755 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:54,760 Speaker 2: So that was a good adventure. 756 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,879 Speaker 1: Okay, just before we leave San Diego behind, to what 757 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: degreed did beach culture affect you and affect the town 758 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 1: in general? To what degree was the navy something palpable? 759 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 2: Well, the Navy thing was very strong, and it made 760 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 2: the whole city was super conservative, you know. And the 761 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 2: beach culture. Yeah, I mean I fell in love with 762 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 2: with the beach culture, but the Navy. So when I 763 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,880 Speaker 2: grew my hair long one month, I wrote a remember 764 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 2: because I wrote a song about it. One month, I 765 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,120 Speaker 2: got stopped by the cops twenty seven times in one 766 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,359 Speaker 2: month just for walking down the street everywhere I went, 767 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 2: you know, because there were police everywhere and they went 768 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 2: to curfews and they you know, it was. It was 769 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 2: that kind of thing San Diego. Then when the first 770 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 2: loven took place in San Diego, it was a major shock. 771 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 2: I went to the park and all these people with 772 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 2: rainbow clothes and bubble and they were you know, I 773 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 2: just couldn't believe it was happening in San Diego. 774 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 1: Okay, did you ever think of giving up? 775 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 2: Not? Well, not too seriously. I I remember kind of 776 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,160 Speaker 2: moving up to North County and walking on the beach 777 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,719 Speaker 2: all the time, figuring out what I was going to do. Now. 778 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 2: At some point I had always passed through Los Angeles 779 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 2: with my parents driving, and in those days it was 780 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:38,239 Speaker 2: incredibly smoggy, and so you're driving you could sort of 781 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 2: see the Capitol Building, you know, the Tower of Records, 782 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 2: but you couldn't really see anything. 783 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,800 Speaker 1: That was horrible. 784 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,640 Speaker 2: I said, I'm never going there. I'm never going to LA. 785 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,680 Speaker 2: So instead I said, I got to get into the 786 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 2: music business. So I moved to San Francisco for about 787 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,840 Speaker 2: a year, and I went to Berkeley and lived there. 788 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,880 Speaker 2: And after about a year, jack there's no music business here, 789 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 2: You're just like So finally I walked on the beach 790 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,960 Speaker 2: and I said, well, I'm just going to have to 791 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 2: move up to LA for a while and try it. 792 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 2: And and so at some point Jackson had turned me 793 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 2: on to this place in Sant Clement he called the 794 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 2: Four Muses and he was playing there and I played 795 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,279 Speaker 2: there a bit. I saw this band called Hank, and 796 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,800 Speaker 2: they're a fantastic band. In fact, they're having a reunion 797 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 2: August fifth at the Coach House and uh, and I'm 798 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,359 Speaker 2: going to put open for him there. And they're all 799 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,680 Speaker 2: good friends of mine, So this band. So I moved 800 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 2: up to LA and I'm walking around. I see one 801 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,840 Speaker 2: of the guitar player from Hank, Richard Steckel, and I go, 802 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 2: what are you doing? He said, we both had moved 803 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,759 Speaker 2: up there to make it, you know, to do so 804 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 2: what people. 805 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,359 Speaker 1: Don't know, although this is probably I don't know what's 806 00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:01,640 Speaker 1: before I didn't realize I moved to California. The movie 807 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,839 Speaker 1: Five Summer Stories was considered to be the surf movie. Yes, 808 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: the soundtrack was by Honk. Yes, you know Blue of 809 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: your Backdrop and everything and everybody do it. I own 810 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,680 Speaker 1: the copy. It was like it never moved out of California. 811 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 1: But Phenom then they got to deal with CBS. I'm 812 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:20,839 Speaker 1: just going to tell that story, and that was kind 813 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: of the end. But that first album, Five Summer Stories, unvolved. 814 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they are all incredibly, incredibly talented. So I'm 815 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:35,879 Speaker 2: walking around, and Richard says, well, let's go see this guy. 816 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 2: He's cool at the ice house, Jewels Shear. So we 817 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 2: went over there and the guy was just as a 818 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 2: solo performer. He was funny, his songs were amazing as singing, 819 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 2: and Juels Sear plays the guitar in a certain way 820 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,479 Speaker 2: that no one else in the world does. He only 821 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 2: plays he has his left thumb hooked over the top 822 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 2: of the guitar and he tunes the guitar in a 823 00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 2: completely unique way that he invented. And he plays lead 824 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,239 Speaker 2: and everything if he has to. It's kind of like 825 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,760 Speaker 2: if he covers all the strings, it's a major chord, 826 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 2: and if he only does four, it's a minor. And 827 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,760 Speaker 2: then you know, he can do everything and he hears everything. 828 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 2: So he was incredible, and so we set up a 829 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 2: thing to play together. We went over to let's see, 830 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 2: I guess it was Doug Haywood's house, who was the 831 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 2: bass player for Jackson Brown, and Jackson was there and 832 00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 2: we all sat down. So Richard Steckel played a song 833 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 2: called mild Pals, an incredible song's it's so amazing that 834 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:56,840 Speaker 2: at Glenn's memorial service, I think Jackson and Don played 835 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,680 Speaker 2: that song instead of one of their songs, It's so great. 836 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:04,000 Speaker 2: And then I had my song slow Dancing, I played 837 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 2: Jules Sheer played a song called It's So Easy to 838 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:13,000 Speaker 2: Begin then and the harmony bland and everything was so magical. 839 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:19,839 Speaker 2: Just that moment, that first day, I just knew we 840 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,520 Speaker 2: had to do it. We had to do that somehow. 841 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 2: So we got a gig at Quackingham's and we did 842 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,560 Speaker 2: one gig and a manager came in and said, you're 843 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 2: you're too good for this, and then that was the beginning. 844 00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,080 Speaker 2: Within a couple of months, we had this band called 845 00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 2: the Funky Kings. 846 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,240 Speaker 1: Okay, why were they called the Funky Kings? 847 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 2: It was just crazy because we were all nuts and 848 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,839 Speaker 2: we just thought, yeah, we're kings and we're funky. You know, 849 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 2: maybe an unfortunate choice of name, but that's the way 850 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 2: it is. 851 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,799 Speaker 1: Okay. And how long thereafter? And how did you end 852 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: up on Arista? Well, so I was. 853 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 2: So David Geffen was was sort of taking care of me, 854 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:07,839 Speaker 2: you know. 855 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: So let's just's go back one second. For the two 856 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars you got a month, what'd you 857 00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,640 Speaker 1: have to deliver? Oh? Nothing? 858 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,239 Speaker 2: It was just like a publisher advance and Peaceful Easy 859 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:23,879 Speaker 2: Feeling had already been recorded Warner Brothers, so I didn't 860 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:28,440 Speaker 2: have to really do anything for that. So but Glenn 861 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,440 Speaker 2: made an appointment for me to go see Clive Davis 862 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,759 Speaker 2: at the Beverly Hills Hotel. You know, it was big time. 863 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,800 Speaker 2: So I go in, I play him a couple of songs, 864 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 2: and Glenn said, I just wanted you to meet Clive. 865 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 2: You know, he's a real record guy. So I get 866 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 2: home and I get a call in my little apartment 867 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,960 Speaker 2: there and it's it's David Geffen. It's going Toeah. I 868 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:54,960 Speaker 2: heard you went to see Clive. I go, yeah, Glenn 869 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,480 Speaker 2: took me over there, and he goes, okay, well we're through. 870 00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,399 Speaker 2: As we're through, I go, what do you mean we're through? 871 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,719 Speaker 2: I you know, I just went to see him. You know, 872 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,319 Speaker 2: I don't understand, because yeah, that's it. We're through. So 873 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:13,480 Speaker 2: apparently there was a huge feud between Clive and David 874 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,800 Speaker 2: Geffen about Laura Nero or something. You know, they were enemies, 875 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 2: and I had no idea about that. So that was 876 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:23,360 Speaker 2: kind of a shock. 877 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,240 Speaker 1: And then. 878 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 2: I had the band The Funky Kings of Three of 879 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 2: Us Jewels, sheer, Richard Steckel and myself and we had 880 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:37,560 Speaker 2: a rehearsal studio. We went in there and and the 881 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 2: other two guys said, instead of being a trio, we 882 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 2: need a band. So Richard said, look, I'll call some 883 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:50,840 Speaker 2: guys I know from Laguna. And it was Bill Bodine 884 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,400 Speaker 2: on bass, Frank Coach and Nolan drums, and Greg Leese 885 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,239 Speaker 2: on on pedal steel and guitars and stuff. So he 886 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,560 Speaker 2: said they they're gonna come up tomorrow and we're going 887 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,759 Speaker 2: to go over a couple of songs with them. So 888 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,200 Speaker 2: that night I get a call from Clive Davis and 889 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 2: he says, I'm coming to town and what are you 890 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 2: up to? You got anything? I go, well, I got 891 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 2: this new band, and you know we're rehearsing tomorrow. He goes, 892 00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:21,359 Speaker 2: I'll be there. So he comes in. So in the 893 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 2: morning I come I've never even met these other guys. 894 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 2: We play our three songs with these guys who I 895 00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:31,120 Speaker 2: don't even know as a band, and then I say, well, 896 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 2: Clive's coming in. So he comes in with one or 897 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,959 Speaker 2: two guys and he sits there. We play the three 898 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,640 Speaker 2: songs and Clive says. 899 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:39,839 Speaker 1: I like it. 900 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 2: So I go oh, okay, cool. Should Should I get 901 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 2: an attorney? And you know, should we talk to you? 902 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 2: Do you want to hear some demos or something? Clive 903 00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 2: goes no, I like it. You got a deal. And 904 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 2: I always loved and respected him for that, you know, 905 00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,359 Speaker 2: he didn't have to ask everybody and run around. And 906 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,440 Speaker 2: then he set us up and we recorded with Paul Rothschild, 907 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 2: and then we got to make our album, and then 908 00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 2: we went on tour with Holland. Oh. 909 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: We went a little bit slower because Paul Rothschild, I 910 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,040 Speaker 1: knew a little bit, was kind of the autocrat, you know, 911 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,319 Speaker 1: it was sort of his way or the highway. So 912 00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:24,880 Speaker 1: what was it like making the record? 913 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,600 Speaker 2: Well, it was fantastic. And I didn't get that from 914 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:39,799 Speaker 2: him because I was a highly uneducated musician. And when 915 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,799 Speaker 2: he had tried to sing a vocal, I had, you know, 916 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,080 Speaker 2: I had no concept. I was always a solo guy. 917 00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:48,400 Speaker 2: I didn't even know about your trying to stay in time, 918 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 2: much less phrasing. So I would sing the thing differently 919 00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,520 Speaker 2: every time and they couldn't punch me in. And finally 920 00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,719 Speaker 2: I remember Paul hitting the button going up, Oh, I 921 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 2: see Jack, I see you are what we call a 922 00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:06,160 Speaker 2: natural singer, so he was extremely kind and helpful, you know, 923 00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,080 Speaker 2: and we were a lot of trouble Richard and Jules. 924 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,480 Speaker 2: We didn't believe in producers, and we were a lot 925 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 2: of trouble for him and drove them nuts. But he 926 00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 2: was extremely nice to us and did an incredible job. 927 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:20,480 Speaker 1: You know. 928 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,760 Speaker 2: He brought Barry Beckett in to play keyboard. It was great. 929 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,280 Speaker 2: So the album is done. Are you happy with the album? Yeah, 930 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,239 Speaker 2: we loved it. And then I remember we go to 931 00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 2: the Beverly Hills Hotel, we play it, playing it for 932 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,600 Speaker 2: Clive right, and he goes, well, I just hope you 933 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,640 Speaker 2: guys are going to be able to handle the incredible success. 934 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 1: You know. 935 00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,600 Speaker 2: So who doesn't want to hear that there's a key 936 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 2: of the music business going yeah, it's going to happen. 937 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,640 Speaker 2: And then you know, and then it didn't happen. And 938 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,120 Speaker 2: many years later, Clive's given a speech in Sandy Diego goes, yeah, well, 939 00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,680 Speaker 2: of all the things I signed and thought we're going 940 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,480 Speaker 2: to really do good, there's only two that I really 941 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 2: believed in that didn't happen, you know, and the Funky 942 00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 2: Kings was one of them. So we're famous. 943 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: I bought it. But in any event, so you finished 944 00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,880 Speaker 1: the record, you go on the road. When does it 945 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:27,480 Speaker 1: become clear it's not working financially. Well, we started doing 946 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,920 Speaker 1: a second record. 947 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 2: And the band just kind of imploded, you know, we 948 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:42,720 Speaker 2: weren't I wasn't as happy with the songs and just 949 00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 2: the way it was going. And I kept defending, you know, 950 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,560 Speaker 2: because the record company is going, Jack, we want you 951 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,280 Speaker 2: to write most of the songs, and I was going, no, No, 952 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 2: these guys are great writers, we're a band and all that, 953 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 2: you know. But by the time we got into recording 954 00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,880 Speaker 2: the second record, it just wasn't work. Came out, so 955 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:02,960 Speaker 2: we split up. 956 00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,640 Speaker 1: Okay, so you've been spending this. You just tell Caul 957 00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: Clive say the group broke up. End a story. Nice 958 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:09,920 Speaker 1: to know you. 959 00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he he still had me under contract. 960 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,240 Speaker 2: So I made another record, a solo record. I went 961 00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,320 Speaker 2: to Muscle Sholes and lived there for three months. And 962 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,640 Speaker 2: one of the Muscle Sholes rhythm section guy's Pete Carr, 963 00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:33,600 Speaker 2: the guitar player. He produced my record. But it was 964 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,120 Speaker 2: kind of cool because I did it at Fame Studio 965 00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 2: and I got to hear all the stories about that 966 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,280 Speaker 2: and I got to be in muscle Sholes. So but 967 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 2: that record, it seemed really good right until the end, 968 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 2: and then it got a little too sweet for me 969 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 2: with mandolins and stuff, so I don't know, it's okay, 970 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,320 Speaker 2: But and then it didn't Clive didn't respond to it 971 00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 2: didn't have a hit. So so that was at the 972 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 2: end of me an airest Okay. 973 00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: Let's go back to the Funky Kings. So the ben 974 00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: breaks up, you still talk to those guys. 975 00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I remained friends with the fact the 976 00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,120 Speaker 2: Jewels went on and moved back to New York State, 977 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:25,920 Speaker 2: wrote some hits, but Richard and I remained in bands together. 978 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:32,560 Speaker 2: He was in my bands for many years and Greg 979 00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,600 Speaker 2: Lease as well, played with me in my bands for 980 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:42,160 Speaker 2: sixteen years, and we played like usually like once a 981 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,320 Speaker 2: week at some club in Laguna or something. I've always 982 00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 2: had a gig once or twice a week with my 983 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:54,280 Speaker 2: own band, despite whatever else I was doing. So yeah, 984 00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:58,600 Speaker 2: and I have tremendous respect for the writing and the 985 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,000 Speaker 2: musicianship of those guys. 986 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:11,760 Speaker 1: So it ends with Arista. What's going on in your head? 987 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Do you think, man, this is the end of my 988 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,880 Speaker 1: solo career, my recording career. You say, you know, I'm 989 01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,160 Speaker 1: going to get another deal. I'm still going to become big. 990 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:25,520 Speaker 2: Let's see. So yeah, I mean I didn't know what 991 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,840 Speaker 2: was going to happen. And we had some I had 992 01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:37,800 Speaker 2: a manager, Larry Larson, and he managed Kenny Loggins and 993 01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:41,200 Speaker 2: some other people. Later he managed Michael Jackson with a 994 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,920 Speaker 2: Victory tour and he was a great guy. So I 995 01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:50,000 Speaker 2: started going on the road doing opening act for people, 996 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:56,240 Speaker 2: which I did for years, and I opened, I opened 997 01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 2: tours for all kinds of people. So I did that, 998 01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:08,400 Speaker 2: and meanwhile, I don't know, nothing happened with the record deal. 999 01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:13,200 Speaker 2: I guess I was expecting maybe something might. But so 1000 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:19,800 Speaker 2: I opened for let's see, yeah, Dave Mason, Poko, Dolly Parton, 1001 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 2: I opened the Christopher Cross his whole first tour, Carla 1002 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:29,080 Speaker 2: bon Off, Emmy Lou Harris tour, Joe Walts tour. So 1003 01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,920 Speaker 2: I did that for a long time. That was what 1004 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:32,320 Speaker 2: I did. 1005 01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:33,880 Speaker 1: Was what was that experience? 1006 01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,200 Speaker 2: Like? Incredible? 1007 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:35,800 Speaker 1: I loved it. 1008 01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,320 Speaker 2: And I was always solo. So I go out and 1009 01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 2: do a solo show before they came on, and I 1010 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:43,520 Speaker 2: got to meet all those people. 1011 01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:48,160 Speaker 1: It was great. Okay, But you know, back then, I 1012 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,320 Speaker 1: think people came for the opening act more than they 1013 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,920 Speaker 1: do today. But it's tough being the opening act. 1014 01:01:55,320 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, And it was funny because, uh, every act 1015 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,880 Speaker 2: turns out has a different audience, and so the same 1016 01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 2: thing night after night, the same thing works for that 1017 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,880 Speaker 2: for Christopher Cross's audience, which was all couples, whereas Joe 1018 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:20,200 Speaker 2: Walsh's audience was all young guys. And in order to 1019 01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,240 Speaker 2: get their attention, one night I figured out, I just 1020 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,000 Speaker 2: went on and said, Hey, what did all these petals? 1021 01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,440 Speaker 2: What did all Joe Walsh's pedals down here that he's 1022 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,800 Speaker 2: using and play guitar? Want me to tell you how 1023 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,760 Speaker 2: they're set? You know, And everybody's all of a sudden, 1024 01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,000 Speaker 2: I got their attention. He's got this because that they 1025 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,600 Speaker 2: were just there, you know, to see the magic of 1026 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:46,560 Speaker 2: how he played guitar and stuff. So uh, but yeah, 1027 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,000 Speaker 2: they weren't coming to see me because the they were 1028 01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,520 Speaker 2: already just coming to see the other act. But it 1029 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 2: was a challenge and I had funny songs and I 1030 01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:01,479 Speaker 2: had serious songs, So I don't know, I just learned 1031 01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,000 Speaker 2: how to do it and I love doing it and. 1032 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: It was great. Okay, so tell me the story of 1033 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,080 Speaker 1: Already Gone yeah. 1034 01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:12,520 Speaker 2: So back when I was running the back door at 1035 01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:16,880 Speaker 2: San Diego State the coffeehouse, I really had heard a 1036 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,880 Speaker 2: lot of country music. Like we all listened to the 1037 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:24,280 Speaker 2: Japanese transistor radio, right we were supposed to be sleeping, 1038 01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,400 Speaker 2: and we under the covers we could hear and the 1039 01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,800 Speaker 2: country station. So it was really cool and I wanted 1040 01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,240 Speaker 2: to write a country song, but I really didn't have 1041 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:39,760 Speaker 2: a clue. So my friend Rob Strandlin, we had a 1042 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,360 Speaker 2: gig together at the back door, and his parents had 1043 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,640 Speaker 2: been country singers, and he had an old a Martin 1044 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,640 Speaker 2: that belonged to his mom, and he lived, you know, 1045 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,080 Speaker 2: way out in the country and had a cowboy boots 1046 01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,840 Speaker 2: and a dog and a horse, you know. And I'm going, yeah, 1047 01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 2: he lived way out there. Well, actually lived about five 1048 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:03,400 Speaker 2: miles from me, but it was out in the country, 1049 01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,760 Speaker 2: you know. And of course, so anyway, we're at the 1050 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:12,320 Speaker 2: back door and the back room it was the kitchen, 1051 01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:15,040 Speaker 2: and so we're in there kind of warming up, and 1052 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 2: there's this huge refrigerators and so I opened one and 1053 01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 2: there's a white jug. So I took this white jug 1054 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:28,640 Speaker 2: out and this is before I never had a drink 1055 01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,360 Speaker 2: or anything. So we started drinking out of this jug. 1056 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,720 Speaker 2: We thought it was okay, and it turned out it 1057 01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 2: was hard cider in there, and we got kind of, 1058 01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:43,480 Speaker 2: you know, feeling really excellent, and wrote Already Gone in 1059 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:47,120 Speaker 2: just about twenty minutes, and then we went up on stage. 1060 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,640 Speaker 2: There's a tape somebody taped us. Well, let's do it, 1061 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:55,640 Speaker 2: you know, and we did it, and then the part 1062 01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,880 Speaker 2: the chorus I always go woooo, which is like the 1063 01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,520 Speaker 2: I wrote it, you know, because I was feeling so great. 1064 01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:08,680 Speaker 2: So and then somehow Glenn Fry heard it. And because 1065 01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:10,520 Speaker 2: I don't think I did it much after it, I 1066 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:15,600 Speaker 2: did it. One other time. I went was playing in 1067 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,160 Speaker 2: Escondido a place called in the Alley, and Jackson Brown 1068 01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,439 Speaker 2: was playing. So I was there and opening for him, 1069 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:27,440 Speaker 2: and I didn't really know him that well, but I said, Jackson, 1070 01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:29,919 Speaker 2: I just wrote this new song. I want you. You got 1071 01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 2: to come on and play it with me. So I 1072 01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,320 Speaker 2: made him come on and sing Already Gone with me 1073 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,680 Speaker 2: and do woo and everything. And then somebody had recorded that, 1074 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:40,920 Speaker 2: and just about two years ago they sent me a 1075 01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,960 Speaker 2: tape and here's me and Jackson doing it, you know. 1076 01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:49,080 Speaker 2: But then I kind of forgot about it. And then 1077 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,400 Speaker 2: A few years later, Glenn calls me and he says, man, 1078 01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:53,960 Speaker 2: you know that country song you wrote? 1079 01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,120 Speaker 1: And go, yeah, you know that one? 1080 01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes, I think that would make a great 1081 01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,240 Speaker 2: rock and roll song. So I go, well, sure, you 1082 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,919 Speaker 2: know sure, And then he called me back the next 1083 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,680 Speaker 2: day and he said, held the phone up to the 1084 01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,880 Speaker 2: speakers in the studio and there was like the Eagles 1085 01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,240 Speaker 2: doing Already Gone and that was on their third record. 1086 01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:19,240 Speaker 1: So okay, by this time, did you own your publishing? No? 1087 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:26,160 Speaker 2: I think Already Gone and Peaceful, Easy Feeling and Slow 1088 01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,360 Speaker 2: Dancing are all owned still owned by Warner Brothers. 1089 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:32,640 Speaker 1: So tell me about writing Slow Dancing. 1090 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let's see. So I had a friend who 1091 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,840 Speaker 2: was an incredible entertainer, one of those guys who could 1092 01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:52,160 Speaker 2: easily have been a superstar, but he didn't. He didn't 1093 01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:58,280 Speaker 2: have the desire or whatever, David Bradley, and he called himself. 1094 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:00,919 Speaker 2: He had a band called Joe Bummer and the ass 1095 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,800 Speaker 2: Bites from Hell, and I wrote recently wrote a song 1096 01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,240 Speaker 2: about him called who Wants to Be Famous? Like the 1097 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,160 Speaker 2: record company came and they said, Joe and this band 1098 01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 2: was going, yes, we're going to make a record, and 1099 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,960 Speaker 2: he goes guys who wants to be famous, I don't 1100 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:20,240 Speaker 2: want to do it. But he played at a club 1101 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,440 Speaker 2: called the Iron Horse, and I watched him. Everybody loved it, 1102 01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,920 Speaker 2: but they didn't get out on the floor to dance 1103 01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:31,400 Speaker 2: until they played a slow song. So I thought, yeah, 1104 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,000 Speaker 2: you know, there should be a song called slow dancing, 1105 01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:41,120 Speaker 2: you know. So then I started working on it. And basically, 1106 01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:47,680 Speaker 2: the girl who I traveled with in the Volkswagen bus 1107 01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:53,479 Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two, you know, I was falling in love. 1108 01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:58,240 Speaker 2: We were falling in love, and so that the song 1109 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:03,400 Speaker 2: was about about that. And in just a couple of days, 1110 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,400 Speaker 2: I remember driving back from la and the car. Of course, 1111 01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,919 Speaker 2: you didn't have a cassette record or anything like that, 1112 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:11,280 Speaker 2: so you just had to keep singing things over. No, 1113 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,840 Speaker 2: I couldn't write it down, so I just had to 1114 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,960 Speaker 2: like remember it and then and then later she and 1115 01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,640 Speaker 2: I got married and were still together. So that's the 1116 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,080 Speaker 2: that's how that song came about. 1117 01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,519 Speaker 1: Okay, I remember buying the Funky Kings album that was 1118 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,439 Speaker 1: an obvious hit, so ultimately it was a hit for 1119 01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,160 Speaker 1: Johnny Rivers. Tell us what you know? Were you disappointed? 1120 01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,800 Speaker 1: Wasn't when it wasn't successful the first time around, and 1121 01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,400 Speaker 1: tell me about Johnny Rivers covering it. 1122 01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,519 Speaker 2: Well, it got up to number sixty on the Billboard chart. 1123 01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,640 Speaker 2: That's the only time I was ever singing on the 1124 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,720 Speaker 2: Billboard chart. And I don't know what. I don't know 1125 01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:52,800 Speaker 2: what happened after that, you know, I don't know why 1126 01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:57,960 Speaker 2: it didn't continue. But what I later learned was Johnny 1127 01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,960 Speaker 2: Rivers heard it and he said, man, if that wasn't 1128 01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,080 Speaker 2: a hit, I would cut that. And somebody said, it's 1129 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,040 Speaker 2: not a hit, you know, So he cut it. And 1130 01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:07,800 Speaker 2: then I think he spent quite a bit of time 1131 01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,920 Speaker 2: traveling through the South going to radio stations and promoting it, 1132 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,479 Speaker 2: and so he made it hit. So I was thrilled 1133 01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:15,960 Speaker 2: because it wasn't going to be a hit for me, 1134 01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,280 Speaker 2: and his thing became a huge it. And then I 1135 01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,040 Speaker 2: got to meet him and work with him, so that 1136 01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:23,920 Speaker 2: was really cool. 1137 01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,479 Speaker 1: And there are multiple covers of that song. Is that 1138 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,120 Speaker 1: song still generate income? 1139 01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:34,920 Speaker 2: I think so, I mean, yeah, I think it does, 1140 01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,200 Speaker 2: and Johnny's version and some of the others. I mean, 1141 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,120 Speaker 2: I get these big thick things. And I used to 1142 01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,080 Speaker 2: look at him with all the where each penny came 1143 01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,120 Speaker 2: in but I don't even look anymore. I just kind 1144 01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,120 Speaker 2: of go yeah. And then it got real complicated with 1145 01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:49,200 Speaker 2: streaming and all that. 1146 01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:53,400 Speaker 1: So did you have you ever audited to see whether 1147 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:54,440 Speaker 1: you were paid accurately? 1148 01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:00,400 Speaker 2: Well, many years ago one of the guys who was 1149 01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:05,599 Speaker 2: a manager, Nick phil Ames, he became an auditor, so 1150 01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:09,400 Speaker 2: he audited Warner Brothers for me, and it turned out 1151 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:12,920 Speaker 2: that's the only time I did it. It turned out 1152 01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:18,720 Speaker 2: they were paying two cents for each record, but the 1153 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:24,080 Speaker 2: statutory rate had gone up and I said, look, you guys, 1154 01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,599 Speaker 2: you're still paying two cents. It's a seventh cents now 1155 01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:33,679 Speaker 2: or whatever, and they said, so, you know, so I went, oh, man, 1156 01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 2: So I I thought, I'm going to have to sue 1157 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,320 Speaker 2: these guys. I just, I mean, I don't want to, 1158 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,400 Speaker 2: I don't want to get involved, but I just can't, 1159 01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, let them. And I was getting nowhere. So 1160 01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,720 Speaker 2: I went to Lucy's l Adobe restaurant and invited j 1161 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:58,360 Speaker 2: D and Jackson Brown JD Salther because they both had 1162 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,880 Speaker 2: songs on the same record, and they also were under 1163 01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,599 Speaker 2: Warner Brothers, and they also were only getting paid two cents, 1164 01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,840 Speaker 2: which they didn't know, and so together we sued and 1165 01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:16,679 Speaker 2: then we went into mediation, and then there's this non 1166 01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:20,000 Speaker 2: disclosure agreement, which you know what I mean, I don't 1167 01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,040 Speaker 2: think why should there ever be a non disclosure agreement? Bob? 1168 01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:27,479 Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, that just means I mean, 1169 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:29,559 Speaker 1: I could go on about this, but it just means 1170 01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,479 Speaker 1: they don't have to admit fault. So there's no record 1171 01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:36,760 Speaker 1: of it and there's no negative words. But you have 1172 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,720 Speaker 1: these two covers on these Eagles record, and as the 1173 01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:44,080 Speaker 1: band goes on Hotel California in the long run, they're 1174 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:48,200 Speaker 1: right in all the material. Do you say, holy shit, 1175 01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get any covers anymore. 1176 01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:58,920 Speaker 2: Well, let's see, I mean, but from the Eagles, although 1177 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:00,800 Speaker 2: I've actually I eventually they got more covers. 1178 01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, I know, but I'm talking about that time 1179 01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,479 Speaker 1: before they booke up the first time. I guess, so 1180 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,080 Speaker 1: I didn't. I wasn't thinking about it, and I was 1181 01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:12,720 Speaker 1: writing with other people and get and by myself, and 1182 01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:15,960 Speaker 1: I was getting other songs cut, you know. So I 1183 01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,799 Speaker 1: mean at some point George Jones did one of my songs, 1184 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,120 Speaker 1: and I toured with Emmy Lou Harris and she eventually 1185 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,519 Speaker 1: did one of my songs. So I didn't think it 1186 01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,120 Speaker 1: was over, but of course. 1187 01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:29,160 Speaker 2: The case hits. 1188 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,120 Speaker 1: And then how did they get I mean, you were 1189 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,320 Speaker 1: on the road with Emmy Lou Harris, but George Jones, 1190 01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,720 Speaker 1: how did these people who covered their records? Was your 1191 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,400 Speaker 1: publisher being active? How did they find out about them? 1192 01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:45,120 Speaker 2: I never got a cover of anything from a publisher. 1193 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:50,320 Speaker 2: So and George Jones, it took me years to find out. 1194 01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:54,800 Speaker 2: I wrote that song with Bobby Whitlock and he did 1195 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,200 Speaker 2: such a killer demo because he's an amazing singer, and 1196 01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,000 Speaker 2: and I go, how did ever get to George Jones? 1197 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,320 Speaker 2: And then years later my friend Ralph Murphy at ASCAP 1198 01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:05,920 Speaker 2: told me that he's the one who sent it to 1199 01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:11,080 Speaker 2: George Jones. So I finally found out how that happened. 1200 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:14,639 Speaker 2: But other things, I think I was playing and people 1201 01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:18,280 Speaker 2: heard somehow they heard the songs, and that's that's how 1202 01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:18,919 Speaker 2: it happened. 1203 01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:24,240 Speaker 1: Okay, So the Eagles break up. Glenn Fry is the 1204 01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,759 Speaker 1: first to put out a solo album, No Fun Allowed. 1205 01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,560 Speaker 1: How did you end up getting involved in that project? 1206 01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Glenn and I had of course, we'd known 1207 01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 2: each other a long time. I didn't see him that 1208 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:41,160 Speaker 2: much when the Eagles were happening. He was incredibly busy, 1209 01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 2: but he called me and said, yeah, I think we're 1210 01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,880 Speaker 2: gonna stop doing the Eagles once. Come over and see 1211 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,479 Speaker 2: if we can write some songs because he needed, you know, 1212 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:55,000 Speaker 2: he needed a new songwriting partner. So I came over 1213 01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,719 Speaker 2: to his place on I think it was Lookout Mountain 1214 01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,559 Speaker 2: Court or something. He had this a frame house that 1215 01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:09,479 Speaker 2: James Cagney had rented, and I came in and I 1216 01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:14,160 Speaker 2: just got a video of him playing with the Spreckles 1217 01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:17,000 Speaker 2: theater where he talks about this stuff. But I came 1218 01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:23,080 Speaker 2: in and he had one hundred candles burning and he 1219 01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:25,400 Speaker 2: had two bottles of red wine. I said, Glenn, I 1220 01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,960 Speaker 2: don't drink wine. He goes, well, this is songwriter wine 1221 01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:33,040 Speaker 2: and you have to have some of this. And I go, so, 1222 01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:37,080 Speaker 2: what about the candles? You had a date Later? He goes, no, man, 1223 01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,479 Speaker 2: there's a muse and we're not the only guys trying 1224 01:14:40,479 --> 01:14:43,080 Speaker 2: to write a song tonight. So we've got to make 1225 01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,280 Speaker 2: this really cool so she'll come down and hang with us, 1226 01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,479 Speaker 2: you know. And so that night we wrote the One 1227 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,720 Speaker 2: You Love. Because I had been trying to learn some 1228 01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:58,280 Speaker 2: chords out of the Mickey Baker jazz guitar book, and 1229 01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,760 Speaker 2: in order to learn that I could learn him. So 1230 01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:03,680 Speaker 2: I made up a little song with him, and I 1231 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:07,000 Speaker 2: showed him the chords, and of course Glenn just looked 1232 01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,960 Speaker 2: at me doing it once and he had it, and 1233 01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,160 Speaker 2: then so we wrote that song. We also wrote I 1234 01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,200 Speaker 2: Found Somebody same night, and so according to what he 1235 01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:18,280 Speaker 2: said at the Spreckles Theater gig, he said, so I 1236 01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:23,240 Speaker 2: didn't look anymore and we just you know, and we 1237 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:27,840 Speaker 2: had never written before together, but that was it. And 1238 01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:33,280 Speaker 2: then I wrote with him for fourteen years and when 1239 01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:36,280 Speaker 2: he made the albums, I was always there because he 1240 01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,360 Speaker 2: just allowed me to be there and I was learning 1241 01:15:38,400 --> 01:15:41,000 Speaker 2: how to do it and being part of the adventure 1242 01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:43,920 Speaker 2: and stuff. So that was a glorious time. I guess 1243 01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:47,040 Speaker 2: we wrote about fifteen songs that were in the top 1244 01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:51,519 Speaker 2: one hundred, you know, I thought that was and then 1245 01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 2: the Eagles got back together. So but it was unbelievably cool. 1246 01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:01,360 Speaker 1: Tell me, my favorite song was the opening I Found Somebody. 1247 01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:02,719 Speaker 1: To remember how that came together? 1248 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to remember who we we eddie something. 1249 01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:12,000 Speaker 2: We listened to some other record and it was the 1250 01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:16,519 Speaker 2: groove on that record, you know. And then so we 1251 01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:22,880 Speaker 2: sort of grabbed that groove and then uh, geez, beyond that, 1252 01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,719 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, you know, it just fell together real quickly. 1253 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:28,439 Speaker 2: It was the first night or first night we did that. 1254 01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,120 Speaker 1: And how about Smugglers Blues? 1255 01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:39,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, Smugglers Blues. Well, I have had a little house 1256 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,240 Speaker 2: in Hollywood for many years. That's where we wrote most 1257 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,040 Speaker 2: of our stuff. And then Glenn came down to Ensinnita's 1258 01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:51,280 Speaker 2: and I had a studio room and he had purchased 1259 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,320 Speaker 2: with irving A's off the rights the movie writes to 1260 01:16:55,400 --> 01:17:01,240 Speaker 2: a book called Snowblind about the cocaine trade all ready. Yeah, 1261 01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,680 Speaker 2: so uh and then the movie never happened, but we 1262 01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,320 Speaker 2: were going to write a song for the movie, which 1263 01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:12,120 Speaker 2: we did, and I just remember we had my I 1264 01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,120 Speaker 2: think I had eight track tape recorder, but I'm talking tape, 1265 01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:18,320 Speaker 2: you know. And and Glenn's going, I think I should 1266 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:24,960 Speaker 2: have some cool slide, you know, And and then you know, 1267 01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:28,719 Speaker 2: you just started telling the story trouble on the street tonight. 1268 01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:32,640 Speaker 2: You know, the blood began to spill that. You know, 1269 01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:38,439 Speaker 2: here's your ticket suitcase in your hand. So it's cool 1270 01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,160 Speaker 2: having the story. And then he had the cool slide, 1271 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:48,040 Speaker 2: and and also we got to say things about the 1272 01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,600 Speaker 2: war on drugs, so called war on drugs. You know, 1273 01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:55,280 Speaker 2: we got to say things. And then it turned out that, 1274 01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,800 Speaker 2: you know, Glenn always wore the hippie clothes, but then 1275 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,400 Speaker 2: when he got big, he'd say, well, I gotta He 1276 01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,439 Speaker 2: had a phrase for it, I gotta I got put 1277 01:18:08,479 --> 01:18:12,200 Speaker 2: on some suits for the man or something. So he said, 1278 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:14,160 Speaker 2: you know, I think when I fly first class, I 1279 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:15,800 Speaker 2: should wear a suit because you never know who you're 1280 01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,040 Speaker 2: going to be sitting next to. So he sat next 1281 01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:22,599 Speaker 2: to Michael Mann and who was planning to do Miami 1282 01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,599 Speaker 2: Vice TV show. And then our two songs ended up 1283 01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:31,400 Speaker 2: on the soundtrack, and the Smugglers Blues song they used 1284 01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:35,120 Speaker 2: it in an episode where Glenn was acting and he 1285 01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,640 Speaker 2: got to be the pilot who flies the stuff in. 1286 01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,600 Speaker 2: So it was just incredible. 1287 01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:43,800 Speaker 1: What about the other song that was on the album, 1288 01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:45,120 Speaker 1: You Belonged to the City. 1289 01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:52,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just remember, I think, oh, I know, 1290 01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:56,839 Speaker 2: we were writing that because they sent us a script 1291 01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,360 Speaker 2: to one of the episodes where one of the guys 1292 01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,120 Speaker 2: goes back to New York where he's from and he's 1293 01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,400 Speaker 2: walking the streets and they wanted a song for right there. 1294 01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:12,519 Speaker 2: So I remember Glenn's got these chords and then he's going, 1295 01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,000 Speaker 2: you belong to the city, and I go, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1296 01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,760 Speaker 2: that's it. Boom, and then we just we just put 1297 01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:24,680 Speaker 2: it together for that scene, right, you know, right from 1298 01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:29,519 Speaker 2: the story and of course Glenn, you know. And then 1299 01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:34,000 Speaker 2: I was using a thing called the Lynn nine thousand 1300 01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:36,840 Speaker 2: drum machine, and it was the first thing where you 1301 01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:40,160 Speaker 2: could sequence other instruments, you could plug in and sequence. 1302 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,240 Speaker 2: So we sequenced the whole thing in my little room 1303 01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:46,280 Speaker 2: and that's when Glenn started calling me nine thousand, and 1304 01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:50,479 Speaker 2: that's how I got my moniker Jack nine k you know. 1305 01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:53,360 Speaker 2: And then he gave me production credit on the thing 1306 01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:55,479 Speaker 2: because we just took that sequence and took it up 1307 01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:59,560 Speaker 2: the Hawkwelinsky studio where he hooked up all these machines 1308 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:01,799 Speaker 2: and we had a horn player come in and Glenn 1309 01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,240 Speaker 2: sang it, and then that was it. Because Glenn could 1310 01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,880 Speaker 2: hear the whole record in his head when he was 1311 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:10,439 Speaker 2: writing a song. You can just hear all the parts, 1312 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:14,439 Speaker 2: everything he wanted. And that's why they called him the 1313 01:20:14,479 --> 01:20:15,360 Speaker 2: loan arranger. 1314 01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:19,080 Speaker 1: So right, right, well, that's great, and I know he's 1315 01:20:19,080 --> 01:20:22,880 Speaker 1: called the loan arrangeer. I didn't know why, so what's 1316 01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:26,720 Speaker 1: it like? Okay, In those particular cases, there was an incentive, 1317 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,160 Speaker 1: you know, there was a potential movie, et cetera. Do 1318 01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:33,360 Speaker 1: you ever write with someone We walk in and it's 1319 01:20:33,439 --> 01:20:34,320 Speaker 1: pretty much cold. 1320 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Most of the time, and even with Glenn, 1321 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:41,040 Speaker 2: he'd have an idea about let's write an album about 1322 01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:48,360 Speaker 2: this or something. But most of the time, A lot 1323 01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,080 Speaker 2: of times it's not good to bring your own idea. 1324 01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:53,840 Speaker 2: You know, I have a million ideas, but it's better 1325 01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:57,360 Speaker 2: to let the other guy come. So one day I 1326 01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:02,400 Speaker 2: got a call and it was turned out to be 1327 01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,600 Speaker 2: Bobby Whitlock. He was right down the street, and I 1328 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:06,920 Speaker 2: had no idea who Bobby Whitlock was. Of course he 1329 01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,479 Speaker 2: had played with Derek and the Dominoes and with Eric 1330 01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:14,080 Speaker 2: Clapton and all that. But he just said hey. He had, 1331 01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:16,760 Speaker 2: you know, this southern accent and said, I'm right down 1332 01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,680 Speaker 2: the street. I want to write some songs. So I 1333 01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:20,519 Speaker 2: later found out what he did was he came to 1334 01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:25,519 Speaker 2: la he looked at the billboard chart. He called he 1335 01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:29,120 Speaker 2: called the number one songwriter people had the number one 1336 01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:33,519 Speaker 2: song just called them. They weren't home, and you belonged 1337 01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:36,519 Speaker 2: to the city. Was number two. So he called and 1338 01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,000 Speaker 2: he had my number. He called me somehow, and I said, 1339 01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:43,519 Speaker 2: come on over. So he came over and we just 1340 01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:50,679 Speaker 2: sat there at the kitchen table and and I looked around. 1341 01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,639 Speaker 2: I said, he said, what are we going to write about? 1342 01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:55,640 Speaker 2: I go, well, we got four walls, two chairs in 1343 01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:59,720 Speaker 2: a doorway and and that's the first line of the 1344 01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:03,720 Speaker 2: song called someone that I Used to know. And that 1345 01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:07,439 Speaker 2: song was eventually cut by George Jones. So it's just 1346 01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:11,640 Speaker 2: kind of songs are just there in the air. Everybody's 1347 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:15,320 Speaker 2: mind is so full of billions of things coming in 1348 01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:20,120 Speaker 2: all the time and being processed that it's always just 1349 01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:23,080 Speaker 2: sitting there, you know what I mean, if you're willing 1350 01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:24,760 Speaker 2: to just get out of the way. 1351 01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:28,280 Speaker 1: So if you're sitting with another person in the room, 1352 01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:34,280 Speaker 1: you have inspiration, to what degree do you let the 1353 01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,160 Speaker 1: other person say what you you know? Let's say you 1354 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:38,479 Speaker 1: come up with some of the other prinsons, it goes 1355 01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,040 Speaker 1: that sucks you then defend and go no, no, I 1356 01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,400 Speaker 1: really think I have something here, or you just okay, 1357 01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:44,439 Speaker 1: I got another idea. 1358 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:49,280 Speaker 2: Boy. That's a good question, I mean, and it's it's 1359 01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:53,920 Speaker 2: a challenge. I mean, you have to co writing is different. 1360 01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,400 Speaker 2: I love co writing, you know, I love writing by 1361 01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,639 Speaker 2: myself too, but you have to have a lot of respect, 1362 01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:02,360 Speaker 2: you know, for the other person. You might go, this 1363 01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:05,559 Speaker 2: is an incredible line, like Glenn and I. You go, well, 1364 01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:07,880 Speaker 2: this is an incredible line. But this line does not 1365 01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,880 Speaker 2: serve the song. So you just have to go, Okay, 1366 01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:13,240 Speaker 2: I can use it for something, el whatever, I'll just 1367 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:17,240 Speaker 2: put it aside. And you have to You have to 1368 01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:19,880 Speaker 2: let the other person in and have some confidence. Maybe 1369 01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:23,960 Speaker 2: it won't work out in the end. But co writing 1370 01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:27,479 Speaker 2: is different, and a lot of times you're writing with somebody, 1371 01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:30,479 Speaker 2: like if they're an artist and they're going to do 1372 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,880 Speaker 2: the song, well, then you have to let them in 1373 01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:35,479 Speaker 2: and have a lot to do with it, you know, 1374 01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:39,400 Speaker 2: so they can make it their own and relate. 1375 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:39,879 Speaker 1: To it stuff. 1376 01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:42,320 Speaker 2: So that's a challenge. 1377 01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:45,320 Speaker 1: How do you know when it's finished? And is your 1378 01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:50,120 Speaker 1: goal to finish it while the two of you are there? Wow? 1379 01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:59,559 Speaker 2: Well, well, the first thing is it's like one of 1380 01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,720 Speaker 2: them may questions of all art. How do you know 1381 01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:09,600 Speaker 2: when it's finished? You know? So now in Nashville, I 1382 01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,800 Speaker 2: always thought I'd like to do the Nashville Way, which 1383 01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:14,760 Speaker 2: was like the real building where they just say, hey, 1384 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:16,519 Speaker 2: write a song for this guy, and you write one. 1385 01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,439 Speaker 2: I thought that'd be great, But eventually, years later I 1386 01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:21,840 Speaker 2: went to Nashville and tried it. And you get in 1387 01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,600 Speaker 2: the room and yeah, they want that song to be 1388 01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:25,920 Speaker 2: done because you have a four hour window. You book 1389 01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:28,599 Speaker 2: the room and then and it's going to be done. 1390 01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:30,439 Speaker 2: If you're writing with one of those guys, you know 1391 01:24:31,000 --> 01:24:33,559 Speaker 2: it's going to be done. And then I've I said, well, 1392 01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,719 Speaker 2: what happens to all these songs? You must write thirty 1393 01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,639 Speaker 2: forty songs a month. What happens, Well, one or two 1394 01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:42,479 Speaker 2: of them get demoed and then they get pitched. I go, 1395 01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:44,559 Speaker 2: what about the other ones? I just wasn't used to that. 1396 01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,320 Speaker 2: When I write something, you know it's personal, and I 1397 01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:53,519 Speaker 2: just so, no, don't. I don't usually try to get 1398 01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:57,439 Speaker 2: it done while while I'm sitting there, and then I 1399 01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:02,160 Speaker 2: take the words, I look at them later and I go, 1400 01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:04,680 Speaker 2: I could throw this out, I could tweak this, I 1401 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,960 Speaker 2: could change that, but I guess to really do it. 1402 01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:11,200 Speaker 2: The final thing is like I sing it. I sit 1403 01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,519 Speaker 2: there and play it and sing it, and then some 1404 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:19,800 Speaker 2: little part won't feel right, you know. So ultimately, all 1405 01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:23,599 Speaker 2: my first years were spent in the coffee house. Now 1406 01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:27,360 Speaker 2: there was almost never anybody in the audience, you know, 1407 01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,479 Speaker 2: But so I got very comfortable with being up there 1408 01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:35,000 Speaker 2: and playing things that were unfinished or but I could 1409 01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,200 Speaker 2: read even with a few people. You can just read 1410 01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:40,840 Speaker 2: what's working and what's not. And I don't think people 1411 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,240 Speaker 2: do that now. They don't have that experience, you know, 1412 01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:48,840 Speaker 2: playing for people a lot who are listening, and you 1413 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:52,080 Speaker 2: can just so I'm talking about when the song's done, 1414 01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:54,320 Speaker 2: and that's one of the ways you tell, you know, 1415 01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:58,759 Speaker 2: you kind of just oh, I'm singing it to these people, 1416 01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,680 Speaker 2: and it feels right all the way through, and it's 1417 01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:02,920 Speaker 2: all smooth and working. 1418 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:12,200 Speaker 1: So okay, So how much do you play out now? 1419 01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,960 Speaker 2: I was doing a touring a bit like going back 1420 01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,320 Speaker 2: East every weekend before the pandemic, but of course that 1421 01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:26,720 Speaker 2: stopped for a couple of years, and I'm still not 1422 01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:29,439 Speaker 2: anxious to get on a plane and travel that much 1423 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,880 Speaker 2: right now. So I'm playing kind of as much as 1424 01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:36,120 Speaker 2: I can around San Diego and La But of course 1425 01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:41,040 Speaker 2: there's only about fifteen twenty million people here, so you know, 1426 01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,839 Speaker 2: it should be enough. And there's a place called Humphreeze 1427 01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,520 Speaker 2: and seats fifteen hundred people, so I open for American 1428 01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:52,920 Speaker 2: Boss Gags and then there's the Belly Up the coach House, 1429 01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:55,160 Speaker 2: and so anyway, I'm playing as much as I can. 1430 01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:56,880 Speaker 2: And now I think I'm going to go back to 1431 01:26:56,920 --> 01:27:03,839 Speaker 2: getting a weekly gig, and because otherwise it's I'm missing 1432 01:27:03,960 --> 01:27:06,280 Speaker 2: a lot of the fun which I got into in 1433 01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:10,559 Speaker 2: the first place, which is playing live. And you know, 1434 01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:12,280 Speaker 2: now you can have a weekly gig and you can 1435 01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,120 Speaker 2: make it a stage at show or put it on 1436 01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:16,160 Speaker 2: the internet, so you don't really have to go all 1437 01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,519 Speaker 2: over the world. But so the answer is, yeah, as 1438 01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:20,519 Speaker 2: much as much as I can. 1439 01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:24,400 Speaker 1: So does that work for you? To do it virtually? 1440 01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:27,880 Speaker 1: It's one thing if you have no choice because of COVID. Yeah, 1441 01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,439 Speaker 1: But to what do we doing it virtually? What's that like? 1442 01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:33,280 Speaker 1: Playing live live compared. 1443 01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:39,840 Speaker 2: It's not It's not the same at all because I 1444 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:41,840 Speaker 2: do the beach jams and I record them, put them 1445 01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:44,559 Speaker 2: up there and people respond. But no, it's not the same. 1446 01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,960 Speaker 2: Playing live is a completely different thing. And I think 1447 01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:51,599 Speaker 2: it's going to become more valuable once, you know, once 1448 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:55,280 Speaker 2: my AI hologram is out there playing too, it's going 1449 01:27:55,360 --> 01:28:00,719 Speaker 2: to be I think you know, somebody's going to go, hey, 1450 01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:03,320 Speaker 2: this stuff is like done by humans, and that's going 1451 01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:05,479 Speaker 2: to be a special thing that people want to see. 1452 01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,639 Speaker 2: But yeah, there's something about playing live and it doesn't 1453 01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:14,719 Speaker 2: have to be a big show. It's just qualitatively different 1454 01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,280 Speaker 2: than anything else. And bottom line is kind of what 1455 01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,639 Speaker 2: I got into this for and what I love the most, 1456 01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,320 Speaker 2: although I love the other parts too. 1457 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:26,400 Speaker 1: You know. So you essentially had an instructional series online 1458 01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:27,320 Speaker 1: tell us about that. 1459 01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:32,320 Speaker 2: I've done a few things like that. One was called 1460 01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:39,000 Speaker 2: go Write One, and I thought, well, I you know, 1461 01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,439 Speaker 2: Glenn Fry taught songwriting at UCLA and I taught with 1462 01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:45,519 Speaker 2: him sometimes and then he did it in New York. 1463 01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,160 Speaker 2: But I don't know about teaching people songwriting. I've done that. 1464 01:28:49,240 --> 01:28:53,040 Speaker 2: It doesn't make me happy. I don't know how much 1465 01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:56,080 Speaker 2: you can teach, you know, So just go write one. 1466 01:28:56,400 --> 01:28:58,680 Speaker 2: It doesn't tell you how to rhyme or do the 1467 01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,519 Speaker 2: verses or the struck. Sure, it just tells you how 1468 01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:03,479 Speaker 2: to get in the mood. And I did about forty 1469 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:08,439 Speaker 2: of them, you know, And so I did. I put 1470 01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:13,640 Speaker 2: that up and not too much happened, and then I 1471 01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,479 Speaker 2: had some podcasts. Not too much happened with that, so 1472 01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:18,000 Speaker 2: I just kind of try everything. 1473 01:29:20,040 --> 01:29:22,960 Speaker 1: They'll give me two tips about getting in the mood. 1474 01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:28,679 Speaker 2: Oh man, I wish I could remember the brilliant stuff 1475 01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,840 Speaker 2: I came up with. It was like, well, you know, 1476 01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,160 Speaker 2: get your stuff, get your batteries working, you know, so 1477 01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:42,759 Speaker 2: you can record and oh man, yeah, I'm not thinking 1478 01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:43,400 Speaker 2: of it right now. 1479 01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:46,680 Speaker 1: Okay, Well I'll talk about myself and there's certain things 1480 01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:51,320 Speaker 1: that happened. I'm immediately inspired. But my best idea is 1481 01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:53,599 Speaker 1: cause when I'm doing something else, I'm in the shower, 1482 01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:57,479 Speaker 1: I was hiking last night, wasn't thinking about it at all, 1483 01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:59,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden things became clear in my mind. 1484 01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:03,479 Speaker 1: To what degree is that your experience were as opposed 1485 01:30:03,479 --> 01:30:05,280 Speaker 1: to sitting down and saying I'm going to write something. 1486 01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:07,519 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And Glenn used to say, we're writing a 1487 01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:11,519 Speaker 2: song and some other song gets jealous and wants to 1488 01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:16,000 Speaker 2: butt in. You know, it's always like, you know, yeah, 1489 01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:19,439 Speaker 2: when you're doing something else and it triggers some thoughts 1490 01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:23,519 Speaker 2: and yes, that's definitely definitely there. You know. 1491 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,200 Speaker 1: So when you did those albums with Glenn, how long 1492 01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,400 Speaker 1: would it take to write the songs? Would they all 1493 01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:32,799 Speaker 1: be written at once or multiple times. 1494 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:36,760 Speaker 2: We'd write a lot of them in a clump so 1495 01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:39,240 Speaker 2: we could go in and start recording, but then we'd 1496 01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, take a few days out to write some more. Yeah, 1497 01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:43,960 Speaker 2: as we went along. 1498 01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:47,040 Speaker 1: So you would go to some club unannounced and work 1499 01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:47,839 Speaker 1: out on stage. 1500 01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:52,000 Speaker 2: Oh no, me and Glenn. Yeah no, no, Glenn, Glenn, 1501 01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:55,040 Speaker 2: that's me. I would always do things like that. But 1502 01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,880 Speaker 2: Glenn never presents anything unless it's a done deal and 1503 01:30:57,960 --> 01:30:58,960 Speaker 2: perfect and great. 1504 01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:02,200 Speaker 1: Oh I thought you, I said club, So I misunderstood. 1505 01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:05,280 Speaker 1: So tell me about your Beach GM series. 1506 01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:10,440 Speaker 2: So I'm so excited about it, and it's so strange 1507 01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,760 Speaker 2: during the pandemic. Well, it's always been part of my 1508 01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:18,040 Speaker 2: process to video when I play, because I always make 1509 01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:21,559 Speaker 2: up songs and my idea as well. I'll make them up, 1510 01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,280 Speaker 2: come home and then I work on, you know, so 1511 01:31:25,479 --> 01:31:28,519 Speaker 2: video so I can remember them. So I started doing 1512 01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:33,280 Speaker 2: that at the beach during the pandemic. Come home, throw 1513 01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:37,799 Speaker 2: the ones away that didn't work, type out the lyrics 1514 01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:41,760 Speaker 2: to the other ones, and I have They can't see 1515 01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:45,719 Speaker 2: this book, but you know, you know, this huge three 1516 01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:50,640 Speaker 2: ring binder is full of song lyrics. You know, so 1517 01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:54,720 Speaker 2: like one year, this last year, during the pandemic. I 1518 01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,559 Speaker 2: made up more songs than I have in my whole life. 1519 01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:01,760 Speaker 2: So then I decided started listening to these things and going, 1520 01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:07,280 Speaker 2: it's kind of they're great. I started thinking, these are 1521 01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:09,880 Speaker 2: great songs even though I just made them up. And 1522 01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:13,080 Speaker 2: if it's a beach jam, the way I define that 1523 01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:15,320 Speaker 2: is a song that I make it up on the spot. 1524 01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:18,120 Speaker 2: I don't think about it ahead of time. I don't 1525 01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:20,800 Speaker 2: go back and do it again, I don't edit it. 1526 01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:24,800 Speaker 2: It just comes out. So I guess it's like performance art. 1527 01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,360 Speaker 2: It's performance art, and it kind of goes back to 1528 01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,960 Speaker 2: the beatnik eraror where they just made up things on stage. 1529 01:32:34,520 --> 01:32:37,880 Speaker 2: And I've been posting about one of those a day 1530 01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:39,400 Speaker 2: for about a year now. 1531 01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:44,679 Speaker 1: So then. 1532 01:32:46,880 --> 01:32:49,519 Speaker 2: So I'm at the beach and some guys there's a 1533 01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:53,599 Speaker 2: lot of beach people there, some homeless guys, some super 1534 01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:56,200 Speaker 2: wealthy guys, all kinds of people from all wah and 1535 01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:58,240 Speaker 2: some of them like to like to play drum sticks 1536 01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:01,599 Speaker 2: on the sidewalk, or they played the jumbe or something 1537 01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,920 Speaker 2: that some of them their time isn't very good. There's guitar, 1538 01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,240 Speaker 2: and I just let everybody play in jam with me sometimes, 1539 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:10,240 Speaker 2: and so I do a lot of that. And then 1540 01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:13,759 Speaker 2: my friend I saw a guy in a club Jesse, London, 1541 01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:16,040 Speaker 2: and he plays with me a lot, so I sit 1542 01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:18,479 Speaker 2: in at his gigs and I started doing this live. 1543 01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:23,639 Speaker 2: So I go live to a club and I make up. 1544 01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:25,760 Speaker 2: I play for three hours and I make up all 1545 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:30,160 Speaker 2: the songs all night. And I was thinking, I'm not 1546 01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:32,120 Speaker 2: gonna be able to do it. But as soon as 1547 01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:34,479 Speaker 2: I throw the switch, it's kind of like with your column, 1548 01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:35,720 Speaker 2: you know, you know, I don't know what I want 1549 01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,599 Speaker 2: to write about. As soon as I throw the switch, Bob, 1550 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:40,760 Speaker 2: the song comes out, and I don't know where it 1551 01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:42,600 Speaker 2: comes from, but hey, I never did know where it 1552 01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:47,000 Speaker 2: came from, but it just it just comes out. And 1553 01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:50,200 Speaker 2: then when I listen back, I'm thinking, well, at this point, 1554 01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,320 Speaker 2: I got really confused. I didn't know what the rhyme 1555 01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:54,519 Speaker 2: and I didn't want this goes. But then that all 1556 01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,320 Speaker 2: happened a split second, It turns out and it falls together, 1557 01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:07,759 Speaker 2: and I'm just constantly amazed that these things are great. 1558 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:13,320 Speaker 2: The videos, they're interesting. Most things now are not real. 1559 01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:22,000 Speaker 2: They're produced, they're put together, they're designed, and maybe this 1560 01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:26,280 Speaker 2: is all real. It's more real than anything else now 1561 01:34:27,080 --> 01:34:29,080 Speaker 2: it's too much for people. I mean, I know that. 1562 01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:32,120 Speaker 2: I was thinking, well, what if Bob Dylan put out 1563 01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,120 Speaker 2: one or two songs a day, Jack, would you listen 1564 01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:36,599 Speaker 2: to it? He's your favorite guy and probably, But as 1565 01:34:36,600 --> 01:34:38,439 Speaker 2: soon as I heard one, I wasn't interested. I mean, 1566 01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:40,800 Speaker 2: it's just way too much. But I can't help that 1567 01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,840 Speaker 2: because from my end, I'm doing it and I look 1568 01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:46,439 Speaker 2: at this, I go, wow, that's a great song. I'm 1569 01:34:46,439 --> 01:34:49,080 Speaker 2: just going to put it up, so I don't know 1570 01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:53,080 Speaker 2: if anything can happen. And and Bob, when they advise 1571 01:34:53,200 --> 01:34:57,840 Speaker 2: you to get more viewers, they say, look at other 1572 01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:00,880 Speaker 2: people doing the same thing, and then see what they did. 1573 01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:05,200 Speaker 2: You know, I can't find anybody else doing that. And 1574 01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:08,519 Speaker 2: I'm sure other people can do it, they don't want to, maybe, 1575 01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:12,840 Speaker 2: but I can't find anybody else doing it. But I 1576 01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:16,400 Speaker 2: thought about quitting, but I just can't. I love it, 1577 01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,720 Speaker 2: I'm into it. It seems to be working. And now 1578 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:22,960 Speaker 2: I'm still writing other songs, making a record and doing 1579 01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,040 Speaker 2: other stuff the regular way. But this has sort of 1580 01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:29,679 Speaker 2: consumed me as this is my work of art. Now. 1581 01:35:29,840 --> 01:35:33,559 Speaker 1: You know, Let's say I went to the gig, would 1582 01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,479 Speaker 1: I be able to tell that you're making it up 1583 01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:36,040 Speaker 1: on the spot. 1584 01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:41,439 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't 1585 01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:45,240 Speaker 2: think so people, nobody unless I mention it. Nobody ever, 1586 01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:48,120 Speaker 2: I don't think you'd be able to tell no, no, 1587 01:35:48,200 --> 01:35:48,800 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 1588 01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:51,040 Speaker 1: Okay, a lot of people. And you've mentioned earlier writing 1589 01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:54,479 Speaker 1: a song, you're playing a chord and you're singing and 1590 01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:57,960 Speaker 1: you're going like this, and then maybe you change a chord. 1591 01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:01,479 Speaker 1: I mean you just say, okay, he's they flip the switch, 1592 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,720 Speaker 1: something will come out? What about changes? What about choruses? 1593 01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:05,559 Speaker 1: Stuff like that? 1594 01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:11,040 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not in a lot of ways. I'm not 1595 01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:15,280 Speaker 2: very musically educated, like, but all my life I've tried 1596 01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:20,439 Speaker 2: to go, well, how how can I get chords to 1597 01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:23,439 Speaker 2: fit together? So that's kind of been my emphasis. How 1598 01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:26,720 Speaker 2: do I get the knowledge to just make things up? 1599 01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:27,400 Speaker 1: You know? 1600 01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:31,120 Speaker 2: And so I don't know a lot of the songs, 1601 01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:32,800 Speaker 2: I'll have the same groove. But if I just put 1602 01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,320 Speaker 2: one other groove and learn one other new chord, or 1603 01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:39,400 Speaker 2: learn one little way that Lightning Hopkins played with only 1604 01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:42,080 Speaker 2: a thumb and a finger and never used everything else, 1605 01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:45,040 Speaker 2: and that gives me some new rhythms. You just learn. 1606 01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:48,320 Speaker 2: It's everything in life, you take everything you know and 1607 01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:52,160 Speaker 2: you add one new thing and that thing compounds. And 1608 01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:56,680 Speaker 2: so that's what I've always tried to do, and somehow 1609 01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:01,320 Speaker 2: I can really do it. It's just like I've got 1610 01:37:01,360 --> 01:37:04,000 Speaker 2: the idea of the song, and what I'm talking about 1611 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:05,880 Speaker 2: is flowing, and then I got the melody, and then 1612 01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:08,080 Speaker 2: I got the chords and the rhythm and the changes, 1613 01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,320 Speaker 2: and it just it just all flows out. And then 1614 01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:13,880 Speaker 2: I got this guy a lot of times, Jesse London, 1615 01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:17,880 Speaker 2: who's playing guitar with me, and somehow he's following me, 1616 01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:21,840 Speaker 2: and I have no idea where I'm going next, you know, so, 1617 01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:24,880 Speaker 2: and i'd like to start doing with the whole band, 1618 01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:28,040 Speaker 2: you know, you know, you throw away the ones that 1619 01:37:28,080 --> 01:37:31,439 Speaker 2: don't work. Sometimes I miss a rhyme horribly, you know 1620 01:37:31,479 --> 01:37:34,280 Speaker 2: what I mean, And I would go back and fix it, 1621 01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:37,479 Speaker 2: but I go, well, I can just go do five more. 1622 01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:40,760 Speaker 2: But the time it takes to fix it. Now, if 1623 01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,519 Speaker 2: I refine the songs. And I went in and got 1624 01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:46,839 Speaker 2: a band and record him took a couple of months. 1625 01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:50,799 Speaker 2: You know, I don't think anybody's going to hear it anyway, 1626 01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:54,320 Speaker 2: you know. So that's one reason I just kind of well, 1627 01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:56,280 Speaker 2: this is a new era of the Internet. People just 1628 01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:58,680 Speaker 2: going to listen to it once or whatever. I might 1629 01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:00,479 Speaker 2: as well just do what I like. I can put 1630 01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:05,320 Speaker 2: him out there and hope somebody loves it. 1631 01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:09,000 Speaker 1: How do you decide what the subject matter is? Lyrically? 1632 01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:16,320 Speaker 2: When I sometimes I have a thought, you know, I'm 1633 01:38:16,360 --> 01:38:19,760 Speaker 2: sitting at the beach and I see a dog, and 1634 01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,719 Speaker 2: so I start writing, big dog come in my way, 1635 01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:27,720 Speaker 2: Big dog coming my way. You know, a lot of 1636 01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,120 Speaker 2: times when I pick up the guitar, I start playing, 1637 01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:33,599 Speaker 2: even at the gig, I have no idea what I'm 1638 01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:37,000 Speaker 2: going to talk about, and then I'll sing one phrase 1639 01:38:37,120 --> 01:38:39,080 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, the whole idea of what 1640 01:38:39,120 --> 01:38:40,960 Speaker 2: the song might be about pops into my head and 1641 01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:42,639 Speaker 2: I just do it. 1642 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:48,040 Speaker 1: And in terms of your everyday life, what do you 1643 01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:48,920 Speaker 1: do other than this? 1644 01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:49,959 Speaker 2: You read? 1645 01:38:50,479 --> 01:38:53,960 Speaker 1: You said you weren't a sportsman. Do you exercise? What 1646 01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:56,880 Speaker 1: do you doing? To what degree does that inform your songwriting? 1647 01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:03,759 Speaker 2: Well, the major intellectual pastime for the whole United States 1648 01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:06,800 Speaker 2: is watching TV, and I do my share of that, 1649 01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:10,800 Speaker 2: you know, And I read. I read quite a bit 1650 01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:17,360 Speaker 2: and everything I just reread. Little Sister Raymond Chandler, you know, 1651 01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:21,720 Speaker 2: and I read some stuff about the music business and 1652 01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:24,920 Speaker 2: biographies of Einstein, and a lot of fiction and science 1653 01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:31,920 Speaker 2: fiction William Gibson and all those guys. And so yeah, 1654 01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:34,920 Speaker 2: I do a lot of reading, watching TV. I swim 1655 01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:36,479 Speaker 2: a little in the morning. Then I go over to 1656 01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,280 Speaker 2: the beach for the sunset, make up some songs, come home, 1657 01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:42,400 Speaker 2: have dinner, and then after dinner, I sit there and 1658 01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,519 Speaker 2: listen to what I made up and type out the 1659 01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,920 Speaker 2: lyrics and post them. And then you go every day, 1660 01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,160 Speaker 2: almost every day. It's not like I have to, but 1661 01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,040 Speaker 2: see I'm in the head. I like to go down 1662 01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:58,200 Speaker 2: and watch the sunset. Anyway. If I don't, I feel 1663 01:39:58,280 --> 01:40:00,160 Speaker 2: like I somehow missed the day. 1664 01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:03,120 Speaker 1: You know, Okay, if you go down to the sun set, 1665 01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:06,560 Speaker 1: you write one song, or you write multiple songs or 1666 01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:07,520 Speaker 1: what does it depend. 1667 01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:11,280 Speaker 2: Upon multiple songs? Because basically I get the guitar out 1668 01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:17,320 Speaker 2: and set up the set up the iPhone on a 1669 01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:21,280 Speaker 2: tripod with my little mic, and then I just played 1670 01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:24,760 Speaker 2: till I get tired of it. So I might get 1671 01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:28,960 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I might write seven songs a day, 1672 01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:32,960 Speaker 2: or eight or three or four, and then I get 1673 01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,160 Speaker 2: home and I go, Now, these these aren't very good 1674 01:40:35,160 --> 01:40:37,920 Speaker 2: and throw them away, and I keep and I'll be going, 1675 01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:39,479 Speaker 2: maybe I better stop doing this, and all of a 1676 01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:41,479 Speaker 2: sudden I'll see one and I'll listen to it and go, 1677 01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:44,719 Speaker 2: oh my gosh, this is incredible, this is really good. 1678 01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:48,519 Speaker 2: So it keeps me going. So yes, I can write 1679 01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,599 Speaker 2: multiple songs a day instead of when I started, which 1680 01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:54,840 Speaker 2: was like ten songs a year. Oh I don't know 1681 01:40:54,960 --> 01:40:55,639 Speaker 2: how that happened. 1682 01:40:55,640 --> 01:40:58,760 Speaker 1: But would you you're making a new solo album, you 1683 01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,200 Speaker 1: send me a couple of tracks, Is that whole different experience? 1684 01:41:02,280 --> 01:41:04,680 Speaker 1: Or any of these songs going to be on the album? 1685 01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:07,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of these songs are going to be 1686 01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:09,360 Speaker 2: in the album. I've taken a couple and if I 1687 01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:11,519 Speaker 2: do work on them, generally, what it is is like 1688 01:41:12,160 --> 01:41:14,320 Speaker 2: they have maybe too many verses they don't need, so 1689 01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:18,320 Speaker 2: I throw a couple away. But yes, so I'll put 1690 01:41:18,320 --> 01:41:22,400 Speaker 2: a couple of those on there. Okay, Now the experience 1691 01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:25,920 Speaker 2: is totally different. You referenced this early or how many 1692 01:41:25,920 --> 01:41:28,400 Speaker 2: people are actually going to see the video hear the video? 1693 01:41:29,080 --> 01:41:33,479 Speaker 2: So you're still making records. A lot of people don't 1694 01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,320 Speaker 2: even bother anymore. Who are of our evantage? What keeps 1695 01:41:37,360 --> 01:41:41,080 Speaker 2: you motivated into what degree? Are you depressed that you're 1696 01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:43,400 Speaker 2: an artist? You want people to experience your art, but 1697 01:41:43,439 --> 01:41:46,320 Speaker 2: inherently there's so much stuff it's difficult. 1698 01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:46,599 Speaker 1: To reach people. 1699 01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a hell of a question, in't it. Boy. Well, 1700 01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:56,040 Speaker 2: I keep moving. I'm trying every possible thing. For some reason, 1701 01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,879 Speaker 2: my wife says, you know, you don't have to do anything, 1702 01:42:00,439 --> 01:42:04,479 Speaker 2: you can just do nothing. And sometimes I slump into that, 1703 01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:09,720 Speaker 2: but mostly, you know, if I see something on the Instagram, Oh, 1704 01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:12,160 Speaker 2: here's a cool guitar. Oh here's a thing you can do, 1705 01:42:12,479 --> 01:42:15,040 Speaker 2: I'm just interested. That's what I'm interested in. 1706 01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:16,679 Speaker 1: And then. 1707 01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:21,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, the flow of creativity and the desire to do 1708 01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:25,320 Speaker 2: that and the satisfaction of doing that. And then the 1709 01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:28,519 Speaker 2: other end is to complete the circle. You want some 1710 01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:34,240 Speaker 2: human beings to see and appreciate and maybe like what 1711 01:42:34,320 --> 01:42:41,160 Speaker 2: you did. Those are two different things. I don't know 1712 01:42:41,160 --> 01:42:43,240 Speaker 2: what point is. At one point, I say, well, how 1713 01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:45,880 Speaker 2: many people? How many people do I need to see 1714 01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:50,320 Speaker 2: this song, you know, to feel like it's okay, you know, 1715 01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:55,120 Speaker 2: And then I thought, well, it depends, you know. If 1716 01:42:55,120 --> 01:42:57,559 Speaker 2: I got one comment saying this is a great song, well, 1717 01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:00,559 Speaker 2: if it was James Taylor, I go, Okay, that's all 1718 01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:05,800 Speaker 2: I need. But and I guess maybe I don't have 1719 01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:10,400 Speaker 2: very many subscribers. But you know, like if I add 1720 01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:13,040 Speaker 2: up the Instagram and the Facebook and all that, maybe 1721 01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:15,519 Speaker 2: maybe a thousand people. You know, it's hard to tell 1722 01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,880 Speaker 2: because most of the numbers on the internet. I'll tell 1723 01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:21,760 Speaker 2: you how you're doing, are big fat lies. They're just 1724 01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:24,639 Speaker 2: big fat lies designed to make you think it's happening. 1725 01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:28,600 Speaker 2: But the comments, somebody really usually has to write the comments. 1726 01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:33,759 Speaker 2: So it's just it's the dilemma of our time because 1727 01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:39,920 Speaker 2: there used to be entertainers or performers or creators, and 1728 01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:45,040 Speaker 2: then there used to be people who, you know, we're audience, 1729 01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:52,120 Speaker 2: and now everyone is a star. You know, everyone is 1730 01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:56,160 Speaker 2: a performer, and the only way to really interest them 1731 01:43:56,479 --> 01:43:58,680 Speaker 2: is to get them in on the action and let 1732 01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:04,639 Speaker 2: them do part of it. So it's just so different 1733 01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:07,920 Speaker 2: than it's ever been, and it's going to become even 1734 01:44:07,960 --> 01:44:11,400 Speaker 2: more radically different. So what can we do. We just 1735 01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:12,639 Speaker 2: have to roll with the flow. 1736 01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:18,600 Speaker 1: Okay. And in terms of your friends, I find a 1737 01:44:18,600 --> 01:44:21,000 Speaker 1: lot of my friends. There's a friend of mine calls 1738 01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:27,600 Speaker 1: them the civilians. They're retiring, they're done Okay, So to 1739 01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:31,559 Speaker 1: what degree does that affect you this stage of life? 1740 01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:34,519 Speaker 1: Do you find you're the only person working. What's it 1741 01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:37,000 Speaker 1: like amongst your friends and how to impacts you. 1742 01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:42,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's a few friends that are frustrated, you know. 1743 01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,880 Speaker 2: But yeah, and some people are retiring. 1744 01:44:47,960 --> 01:44:48,320 Speaker 1: I don't. 1745 01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:53,120 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have a hobby that i'd rather do, 1746 01:44:53,320 --> 01:44:56,160 Speaker 2: so I'm not going to tire until I'm just too 1747 01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:57,599 Speaker 2: tired to do it or something. 1748 01:44:57,680 --> 01:44:57,880 Speaker 1: You know. 1749 01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,760 Speaker 2: My friend's writing a book called The Frustrated Creative, but 1750 01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:05,400 Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to be able to solve 1751 01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:09,040 Speaker 2: the problem. You know. It's just like you have to, 1752 01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:11,160 Speaker 2: you have to adjust your mind and say, oh gee, 1753 01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:13,320 Speaker 2: I don't care. But that's kind of a lie, you know, 1754 01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:18,080 Speaker 2: especially after having work that so many people are still 1755 01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:21,360 Speaker 2: listening to. And yet but then I think, well, I 1756 01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:23,320 Speaker 2: can't get anybody to listen to what I'm doing. But 1757 01:45:23,360 --> 01:45:27,559 Speaker 2: then again, if you know, if Willie Nelson cut my song, 1758 01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:30,479 Speaker 2: or if all these people they're not on the radio either. 1759 01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,719 Speaker 2: So there, and so I asked an expert what should 1760 01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:38,280 Speaker 2: I do to get an audience? And the expert was you, 1761 01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,439 Speaker 2: And you wrote back very kindly and said maybe you 1762 01:45:41,439 --> 01:45:43,640 Speaker 2: can get some songs cut in Nashville, you know. So 1763 01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:45,719 Speaker 2: I tried to do that, but that's not really happening 1764 01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:51,880 Speaker 2: anymore either. It's so I don't know if people want 1765 01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:55,080 Speaker 2: to retire. I just don't think I'll be happy if 1766 01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:57,679 Speaker 2: I'm not creating some kind of musical thing. 1767 01:45:58,880 --> 01:45:59,080 Speaker 1: You know. 1768 01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:00,800 Speaker 2: It's almost like I feel they're like, yeah, I just 1769 01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:05,360 Speaker 2: had this breakthrough where I can do stuff way more 1770 01:46:05,439 --> 01:46:10,160 Speaker 2: and better than I've ever done it before, you know, 1771 01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:14,160 Speaker 2: But I don't have any Eagles to make the song's hits, 1772 01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:17,360 Speaker 2: you know, and I don't see that happening. 1773 01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:20,680 Speaker 1: Well. I mean, the Eagles album that you had a 1774 01:46:20,720 --> 01:46:23,759 Speaker 1: couple of songs on came out, what two thousand and seven, 1775 01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:27,799 Speaker 1: and the world has already changed since then sixteen years. 1776 01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:31,880 Speaker 1: Even if the Eagles cut it, yeah, very few people will. 1777 01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:34,439 Speaker 1: I mean, the Eagles is a group, but who you know, 1778 01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:35,559 Speaker 1: let's not go down that road. 1779 01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:38,439 Speaker 2: Other than the when they did Long Road out of 1780 01:46:38,600 --> 01:46:41,760 Speaker 2: Eden and then they were going to play and they 1781 01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:44,360 Speaker 2: cut a couple of my songs on there, but they 1782 01:46:44,360 --> 01:46:46,240 Speaker 2: were going to play and I said, Glenn, how many 1783 01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:48,160 Speaker 2: songs are you going to do off your new album? Well, 1784 01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:51,040 Speaker 2: we're just going to do two because nobody wants to 1785 01:46:51,040 --> 01:46:52,559 Speaker 2: hear them. That's when they get up and go to 1786 01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:55,200 Speaker 2: the bathroom when we do the new songs. So and 1787 01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:57,400 Speaker 2: then I don't think they're interested in doing another record, 1788 01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:01,799 Speaker 2: you know. So yeah, Well, the great. 1789 01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:03,960 Speaker 1: Thing is you're making music. You've seen the other end 1790 01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:07,080 Speaker 1: of it, whereas a lot of the people, you know, 1791 01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:10,160 Speaker 1: we're bitching and moaning that things are different. Listen, it's 1792 01:47:10,160 --> 01:47:13,880 Speaker 1: frustrating for me too, you know, as I say, used 1793 01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:18,200 Speaker 1: to be top down. It's not top down anymore anyway, Jack, 1794 01:47:18,320 --> 01:47:21,120 Speaker 1: I think we have come to the feeling, the end 1795 01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:23,200 Speaker 1: of the feeling we've known. Just to make sure because 1796 01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:25,240 Speaker 1: we went back and forth an email. Is there anything 1797 01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:28,320 Speaker 1: I didn't cover that you haven't urge to talk about. 1798 01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:31,679 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I just have to say, after 1799 01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:33,559 Speaker 2: reading you for years and now, it's just been a 1800 01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:35,320 Speaker 2: great pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. 1801 01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:40,000 Speaker 1: Well. You know, you have this sense of humor that 1802 01:47:40,200 --> 01:47:44,440 Speaker 1: is just so great and I can see why everybody 1803 01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:46,840 Speaker 1: wanted you around and in the room. In addition of 1804 01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,880 Speaker 1: writing these great songs and any of it, and it's 1805 01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,400 Speaker 1: really you're an inspiration for people. You got to keep 1806 01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:55,559 Speaker 1: doing I mean, especially today, when people don't do it 1807 01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,960 Speaker 1: for the music. They do it to become famous or 1808 01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,519 Speaker 1: to sell something out else. It's just not enough the music. 1809 01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:07,280 Speaker 1: But as you say, it's continuing to evolve. In any event, Jack, 1810 01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:08,559 Speaker 1: thanks so much for doing this. 1811 01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:11,559 Speaker 2: Thanks Bob, it has been great. Thank you so much. 1812 01:48:11,680 --> 01:48:14,880 Speaker 1: You'd bet until next time. This is Bob left sets