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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking about why mental health is financial

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Speaker 1: health with Asia Evans.

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Speaker 2: And so the fundamentals of personal finance, they're not all

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Speaker 2: that complicated, right, Like, there is a reason why we

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Speaker 2: came up with the money gears, just seven easy steps

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Speaker 2: that you can take with your money. You could probably

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Speaker 2: boil it down even more, right like spend less than

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Speaker 2: you make invest the rest. And so while the core

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Speaker 2: principles of growing wealth are fairly simple, and why aren't

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Speaker 2: more Americans handling their money better? Well, one reason is

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Speaker 2: because we as individuals are incredibly complex. We are not simple,

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Speaker 2: and that complexity can lead to just to disconnect between

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Speaker 2: what it is that we know that we should be

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Speaker 2: doing with our money and then what it is that

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Speaker 2: we actually end up doing. And sometimes we need someone

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Speaker 2: to guide us, which is why we're very excited to

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Speaker 2: be talking with Asia Evans. Asia is a licensed mental

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Speaker 2: health counselor with over ten years of experience, and she

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Speaker 2: works to help people to move towards financial wellness by

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Speaker 2: understanding their relationship with money. She also folks to understand

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Speaker 2: their money mindset and how their feelings impact what it

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Speaker 2: is that they do with their money and Asia. She

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Speaker 2: even says on her site that chatting about money and

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Speaker 2: feelings is her superpower. That's the intersection that she sits at. So, Asia,

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Speaker 2: we are very excited to be talking with you today to.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me the wonder woman

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Speaker 1: of money and feelings, Asia Evans, Hey, I like it. Yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: that's branding right there. You feel free to steal that?

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Speaker 1: The first question that was free, right. The first question

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Speaker 1: we ask everyone who comes on the show is how

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Speaker 1: they like to splurge, because it tells us a little

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Speaker 1: something about about them.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Matt and I were all about, say I mean and

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Speaker 1: investing for our future. But if you're not having fun

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Speaker 1: in the present simultaneously, then what are you doing right?

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Speaker 1: And so what what is that for you? What do

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Speaker 1: you like to splore John in the here and now

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Speaker 1: while you're also being intentional about saving for your future.

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Speaker 3: I really love to go out to eat and spend

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Speaker 3: my money on delicious eats, whether they are fancy eats,

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Speaker 3: casual eats, quick eats. Me and my husband took a

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Speaker 3: flight to Copenhagen right before COVID actually, and we got

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Speaker 3: to go to Noma and got reservations for Noma.

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Speaker 1: Yeah wow, fancy did you forage for your own dinner

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Speaker 1: or do they forage for it for you?

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Speaker 3: I mean you walk through the gardens and you walk

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Speaker 3: through everything. So gosh, it was the high like the

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Speaker 3: culinary highlight of my life currently. I cried.

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Speaker 2: It was yeah soon, man, that's I think that's one

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Speaker 2: of Kate's bucket list items that she is not going

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Speaker 2: to be able to for that.

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Speaker 3: We really, like two of us on the computer we

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Speaker 3: are on vacation at the time, and put like calendar alerts. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we fought for that reservation.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Okay, Well, let's immediately get practical as like,

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Speaker 2: how is it that you actually gave your self permission

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Speaker 2: to spend that money? Because that's not a cheap dinner.

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Speaker 2: You say that you like, you know, casual eats as well,

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Speaker 2: this is not a casually. This is very expensive and

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Speaker 2: panadas on the street. Yeah, how do you do that?

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Speaker 2: How do you do that there without feeling guilty? Like

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Speaker 2: do you just have a maybe a dollar amount that

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Speaker 2: you're willing to say, all right, we're gonna earmark this money.

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Speaker 2: We're on vacation. Is there a rule of thumb, like,

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Speaker 2: how is it that maybe some guidance that you could

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Speaker 2: give listeners?

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Speaker 3: Sure, So I think it really depends on what's important

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Speaker 3: to you and what's a priority in your life for

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Speaker 3: you and your yourself or your family. For us, getting

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Speaker 3: something like that reservation is already difficult, and we knew

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Speaker 3: that if we were able to get the reservation, like,

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Speaker 3: we're making peace with whatever it is that we're spending

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Speaker 3: because this is literally a once in a lifetime situation

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Speaker 3: and scenario. So knowing that that huge experience was not

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Speaker 3: going to be something that would easily come around again,

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Speaker 3: was allowed both of us to feel comfortable spending that

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Speaker 3: what I will say is an absorbitent amount of money

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Speaker 3: for dinner and a flight and staying there. So I

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Speaker 3: think that something like that, I just am totally okay

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Speaker 3: spending the money because that is something that I will

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Speaker 3: think about forever, and that we did it together and

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Speaker 3: we did it with friends, which was even better.

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Speaker 2: It was just it was.

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Speaker 3: It was the best. So when it comes to doing

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Speaker 3: a trip like that once in a lifetime, I can

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Speaker 3: justify we knew what was coming, we had saved for it,

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Speaker 3: we were ready to make that decision, and you know,

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Speaker 3: swipe the card if you will. But for other decisions

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Speaker 3: when it's kind of like, hey, this is a restaurant

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Speaker 3: that's closer to home. I live very close to New

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Speaker 3: York City, so that too, can get really pricey. Even

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Speaker 3: if you're not trying to you know, break the bank

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Speaker 3: or do too much with your spending, it can really

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Speaker 3: add up quickly. But we know that that's something that

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Speaker 3: brings us joy, and we have an allotted amount of

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Speaker 3: money that we feel comfortable with spending a month on

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Speaker 3: things of that nature. So if it's hey, let's get

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Speaker 3: that quick empanada on the street, or we're at the

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Speaker 3: farmer's market and these heirloom tomatoes look really great, or hey,

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Speaker 3: let's go hire a babysitter and let's have a date

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Speaker 3: night because we haven't gone out in a while. We

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Speaker 3: have certain amounts of money that we feel comfortable spending

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Speaker 3: with that, and I think we really learned, I will say,

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Speaker 3: kind of the hard way, from when we lived in

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Speaker 3: New York City proper we lived in Brooklyn, we were

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Speaker 3: really we're really spending it, spending a ton of money.

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Speaker 3: So when we moved out and had kids, you know,

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Speaker 3: your finances have to change, So it's an easy sacrifice

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Speaker 3: sometimes when you know what you lived like before and

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Speaker 3: what you're sacrificing for now.

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Speaker 1: You know, I learned pretty quickly from a few of

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Speaker 1: my first awesome trips that I went on. I was

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Speaker 1: in my hyper frugal phase. I just refused to spend

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Speaker 1: on certain things. And I came home from the trip

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I didn't even have like one.

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Speaker 1: It was fun and I saw some cool stuff, but

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Speaker 1: I made it a goal to pay for one experience

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Speaker 1: every time I'm somewhere, and so like for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: the first trip I'm thinking about that where I kind

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Speaker 1: of implemented that was I went on a motorized hang

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Speaker 1: gliding tour in Maui, and that made all the difference.

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Speaker 1: I look back to that and I'm like, that is

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Speaker 1: what I remember now about my Maui experience. And if

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Speaker 1: I had just and if it had just been the

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Speaker 1: beaches in the community and all that other stuff, it

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Speaker 1: would have been one thing. But it was like now,

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Speaker 1: that experience sticks out in my head. So I think

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Speaker 1: budgeting for that and implementing that is helpful and it

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Speaker 1: helps facilitate those memories which are so important too, about

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Speaker 1: like the future value of that trip. I'm curious, how

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Speaker 1: do you help folks think through spending for saving for

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Speaker 1: investing their money, Like saving is really just deferred spending,

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Speaker 1: Like we're hoping that at some point or we're assuming

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Speaker 1: that at some point in the future, we're gonna need

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Speaker 1: to spend that money. So how do we mentally negotiate

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Speaker 1: the trade off of spending now versus having more money

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Speaker 1: to spend in the future. Hyper frugal people will be like, ah,

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Speaker 1: at this sort of return rate, I'm gonna have this

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Speaker 1: much more money in the future, And that is true,

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Speaker 1: but you also have to think about being able to

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Speaker 1: buy the things that matter now too, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. So one of what I would call like

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Speaker 3: a founding principle or value that I have with my

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Speaker 3: work is that I want people to live their best lives.

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Speaker 3: I want people to feel like they can show up

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Speaker 3: as their most authentic self. And if your most authentic

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Speaker 3: self wants to have an experience, then we need to

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Speaker 3: figure out how we prioritize that. So I tend to

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Speaker 3: lead with the emotional first, and lead with what's important

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Speaker 3: to you? What are your values as a person and

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Speaker 3: then how do we translate that into how you use

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Speaker 3: and behave with your money so that you are able

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Speaker 3: to prioritize. Hey, having a budget or a spending plan

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Speaker 3: is really important because we have these financial goals that

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Speaker 3: mirror what our personal values are, what our values as

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Speaker 3: a family are, so then we can enact whatever we

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Speaker 3: want to do when it's time.

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Speaker 2: Makes sense. Okay, So then how do you I've heard

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Speaker 2: you talk about this, how oftentimes we spend our money

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Speaker 2: though to signal to others, we spend our money in

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Speaker 2: ways that are not internal. They're not internally satisfying. We

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Speaker 2: think that they are externally satisfying to others. But as

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Speaker 2: you are taking clients and folks kind of through that process,

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Speaker 2: are there some steps that you take with them to

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Speaker 2: help them to understand what it is that kind of

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Speaker 2: lights them up? How can folks avoid that trap of

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Speaker 2: spending in a way that doesn't necessarily align with their values.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think it's twofold. So I always say

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Speaker 3: that we need to really do the hard work of

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Speaker 3: being honest with ourselves and how we feel about ourselves

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Speaker 3: and looking at our self esteem. While we're in the

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Speaker 3: process of creating financial priorities. So if you find that

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Speaker 3: you are purchasing a bunch of wealth signifiers to show

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Speaker 3: everybody that you're making it, who was that for and

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Speaker 3: how come? And let's dive into what you really believe

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Speaker 3: about yourself that you need that. And I say this

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Speaker 3: also coming from a place of having done that too,

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Speaker 3: Like I remember when we have right, all of us,

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Speaker 3: and it shows up very differently through your age. And

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Speaker 3: I think as young as middle school to what jeans

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Speaker 3: are you wearing, who are you hanging out with? What? Like?

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Speaker 3: Do you have the latest and greatest whatever? It is?

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Speaker 3: Feels really cool when you're young, But as you continue

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Speaker 3: aging and your life starts to look different, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of you have the insight and the wherewithal to start

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Speaker 3: asking yourself the harder questions of why you need this

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Speaker 3: stuff and who who are you trying to attract that

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Speaker 3: you feel like you can't attract without it and those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the expense of those well signifiers goes up substantially

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Speaker 1: too as you get older, because in middle school it's

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Speaker 1: sneakers in a T shirt, and as an adultig deal,

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Speaker 1: it's a car in a house, right, Yeah, exactly, it's

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Speaker 1: so expensive to kind of really keep that up exactly.

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Speaker 3: And I think the second step after you are kind

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Speaker 3: of taking the time to look at like, hey, who

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Speaker 3: is this for, then you can ask yourself, Okay, does

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Speaker 3: this line with my values? And I want to like

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Speaker 3: put the disclaimer in that I am not telling people

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Speaker 3: don't have the fancy dinner, don't get the fancy car,

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Speaker 3: do that, but make sure one that you can afford it,

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Speaker 3: and two that it's really for you and not so

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Speaker 3: that other people are looking at you and deciding that

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Speaker 3: you are this type of person. And you can fill

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Speaker 3: in the blank there, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is it really for you?

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Speaker 2: I like that.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about deserving versus being able to

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Speaker 1: afford it. Right, some folks feel like, Okay, I'm an adults,

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Speaker 1: I deserve adult treats, Like this is what adults do,

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Speaker 1: I think, and so this is the path I need

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Speaker 1: to trod. What do you tell folks who feel like

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Speaker 1: frugality is too much of a downer or hey, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm like thirty five and so I should be able

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Speaker 1: to spend on this stuff, but maybe they don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: have the budget to be able to do so.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on that,

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Speaker 3: and they're evolving as we're even talking about it. So

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Speaker 3: one thing that I'm thinking about is when we have

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Speaker 3: this idea of hey, I'm thirty five, I'm this age,

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Speaker 3: I'm an adult, I should be able to afford that,

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Speaker 3: where's that coming from? Because if that's coming from generations

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Speaker 3: before you, we're living in a different time. It looks

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Speaker 3: very different. So if you were expecting to have the

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Speaker 3: same things that somebody would have had at your current

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Speaker 3: age before you, like, we're we're not on the same

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Speaker 3: playing field. The foundations look very different.

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Speaker 2: It's a different world.

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Speaker 3: It's a different world, totally different world.

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Speaker 1: Like those houses are expensive now, yes.

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Speaker 3: Very expensive. And globalization and the internet has made things

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Speaker 3: that we could not get so readily available at our

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Speaker 3: fingertips by a click of the button. Something can come

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Speaker 3: to me in a week. So it just looks.

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Speaker 2: A week, right, Asia, I get stuff like this afternoon.

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Speaker 3: I try to give the leeway. But you're right, and

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Speaker 3: not only it's true, yeah, not only just that, but

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Speaker 3: I really really try to hammer home to people that

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Speaker 3: what you deserve has nothing to do with what you

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Speaker 3: can afford. Those are two very different things, and we

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Speaker 3: connect them so quickly and easily when they have no

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Speaker 3: business being connected. As a human being, we all deserve everything,

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Speaker 3: right like, just as humans. I believe that, yes, we

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Speaker 3: deserve to be where we want to be, feel safe,

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Speaker 3: where we can be safe anywhere we walk around like,

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Speaker 3: I just believe that that is a human right. So, yes,

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Speaker 3: you deserve all the things, but it doesn't mean you

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Speaker 3: can afford them.

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Speaker 2: Does Yeah, does not mean you've got the money in

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Speaker 2: the bank. And it sounds like so it sounds like

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Speaker 2: you're kind of speaking from personal experience a little bit.

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Speaker 2: How I guess when you and your husband, when y'a

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Speaker 2: are living in the city, maybe y'all are spending more

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Speaker 2: than you should have been, or I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 2: more than you realize. Can you can you share your

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Speaker 2: your personal story a little bit and you talk about

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Speaker 2: the financial awakening that you went through, can you basically, yeah,

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Speaker 2: talk us through that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So when I had first moved so I'm originally

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Speaker 3: from upstate New York, but when I first moved down

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Speaker 3: to New York City, I was spending all of my money.

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Speaker 3: I was literally just making it rain. I had a

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Speaker 3: car payment, student loan payments, I had rent payment for

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Speaker 3: a pretty nice apartment, and I was like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: could send out my laundry. Oh, I can also go

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Speaker 3: to this happy hour and this brunch and go shopping

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Speaker 3: in the same lit all the thing. I could not

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Speaker 3: afford to do that, but it felt like, again, I

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Speaker 3: should be able to. I'm making this money, it should

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Speaker 3: be able to work that way. And as I got

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Speaker 3: into the personal finance space and just started educating myself,

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Speaker 3: A was like, Okay, this doesn't make sense. This is

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Speaker 3: actually not working. I'm not going to be able to

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Speaker 3: reach the financial goals that I want to. And then

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Speaker 3: me and my now husband moved in and we were

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Speaker 3: still making it rain. We were still going out to

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Speaker 3: eat and ordering takeout, and it looked a little different

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Speaker 3: our spending. But now when I look back, we are

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Speaker 3: At the time, like our rent was a little less

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Speaker 3: a little more than half our mortgage payment, we didn't

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Speaker 3: have two kids in daycare, we didn't have need a

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Speaker 3: like larger suv, we didn't have a dog. Like all

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Speaker 3: of these things gave us space in our budget to

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Speaker 3: have a great time, and we lived it and it

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Speaker 3: was amazing. But I cannot afford to do the things

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Speaker 3: that I was doing then Now because I have different priorities.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, do I want to go out to

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Speaker 3: this fancy meal four times this month that would potentially

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Speaker 3: equal the same amount of money that is one child's day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Once kids enter the realm, the equation, you're like, this

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Speaker 1: changes everything. And so I'm like Matt and I always

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Speaker 1: talk about how we're glad that we were more frugal

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Speaker 1: maybe than sometimes we even needed to be on those

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Speaker 1: in those early years, because there's so many unexpected expenses

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Speaker 1: that pop up when you have kids. And I will say,

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Speaker 1: even in the beginning, I was like, oh, I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to get out of diapers. That's going to save

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Speaker 1: me a lot of money. And then the kids' activities

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Speaker 1: start up, and the soccer and the gymnastics and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff, and you're like, wait a second, how did

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Speaker 1: I ever think that this? Like it just the expenses

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Speaker 1: continue to grow even as your kids get older. When

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Speaker 1: you think, oh, wait, yeah, I get out of diapers

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Speaker 1: are going to be great, well not so much. I

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Speaker 1: guess my question to you too is like, when you realized, okay,

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Speaker 1: we moved in together, we're still making it rain, We're

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Speaker 1: still spending in the same way what did you end

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Speaker 1: up cutting back on and how did you realize that

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Speaker 1: those were the right moves.

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Speaker 3: So we ended up cutting back on definitely on eating

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Speaker 3: out and drinking out, I think is the best way

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Speaker 3: to put it. So it's really easy, especially when you

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Speaker 3: live in New York to say, hey, let's meet up

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Speaker 3: after work, or your friends don't live in the same

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Speaker 3: borough that you live in and it takes a long

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Speaker 3: time to travel, so it's easy to go someplace that's

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Speaker 3: halfway and meet and get drinks. Because it's just like

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Speaker 3: it's it's a very going out city, Like you don't

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Speaker 3: really hang out at home all the time. That's a

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Speaker 3: rare kit. You go out, exactly, go out, you let's

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Speaker 3: hang out together. So when I realized, I think it

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Speaker 3: was around the time that we were moving and move

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Speaker 3: out of the city and going to the suburbs. When

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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, well our mortgage is much higher

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Speaker 3: than our rent. Was where do we need to cut?

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Speaker 3: And I had, thankfully the personal finance education and be like,

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Speaker 3: let's look at our budget. How much money are we

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Speaker 3: cutting and what are we cutting and how much do

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Speaker 3: we need to And a lot of it came from

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Speaker 3: eating out and drinking. It came from we had more

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Speaker 3: expensive gym memberships that in the city that we didn't

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Speaker 3: need in suburbia, so that shifted. At that time, I

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Speaker 3: had paid off my car ready, so I was like,

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Speaker 3: we will be driving this car forever, and we did

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Speaker 3: until we had a second child and had to upgrade,

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Speaker 3: and that literally happened two and a half years ago.

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Speaker 3: So we really were more mindful of when we were spending.

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Speaker 3: We would still go out and we had a great time,

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Speaker 3: but it was just so much less and you don't

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Speaker 3: really like, I know, I was probably spending twelve hundred

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Speaker 3: dollars a month by myself alone, like not even what

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Speaker 3: my now husband was spent. So that's a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: It's tough when you live in a really cool city

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Speaker 1: like that too, because you want to partake so much experience.

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Speaker 2: Part of yeah, that is part.

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Speaker 1: Of the experience, but also there's the experience of being

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Speaker 1: broken in debt, which is which is something you want

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Speaker 1: to avoid too.

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Speaker 2: And it's just the different life stage that you're in

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Speaker 2: right like that necessitated the change that you were willing

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Speaker 2: to make, and like you said before, it's so important

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Speaker 2: and helpful I think to have something there in front

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Speaker 2: of you that you are pursuing, that you're moving towards,

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Speaker 2: rather than just saying, oh, well, it's not just no

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Speaker 2: no no, it's so that you can say yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: yes to some of these other things. But so so

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Speaker 2: far we've find this is a fun conversation. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about spending, but we're going to kind of dive into

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Speaker 2: some of this some of the heavier mental health. As

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Speaker 2: mental health, we're going to talk about emotions and specifically

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Speaker 2: the impact that it has on us and how it

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Speaker 2: is that we spend and saver money.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that right after this. All right,

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Speaker 1: the conversation continues. We're talking about mental health, how that

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Speaker 1: is essentially financial health in so many ways. Talking with

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Speaker 1: Asia Evans perfect person to talk to about this topic.

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Speaker 1: And Asia, you mentioned that when you kind of start

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Speaker 1: talking about the personal values that someone has, you're not

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Speaker 1: necessarily going directly to like personal finance one onh one

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Speaker 1: in your discussions when someone comes into your office or

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Speaker 1: when someone's meeting with you to talk about kind of

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Speaker 1: their financial feelings and stuff like that. But like, how

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Speaker 1: do you know whether where you should go in that conversation?

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Speaker 1: And and how much are you doing on like the

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Speaker 1: unpacking the childhood front or are you more like unpacking

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Speaker 1: their spending and credit card bills breaking down their credit

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Speaker 1: card statement or is it both and both and okay?

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Speaker 3: So even like in probably the first conversation I have

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Speaker 3: with potential clients at that point, like the whole process,

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Speaker 3: if you will, I ask them what's going on now,

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Speaker 3: Like why did now feel like a good time that

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Speaker 3: you wanted to talk to a financial therapy and really

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Speaker 3: dive in about what's going on with your emotions and

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Speaker 3: your money. So that will be an indicator of what

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Speaker 3: they want to work on, and then you know, they

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Speaker 3: say yes, we start working together, We get them on

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Speaker 3: the schedule, and then it's okay, this is where you're at. Now.

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Speaker 3: Is there anything else that feels really pressing right now

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Speaker 3: about like what's going on with your money? Like are

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Speaker 3: you in crisis right now? Do we need to attune

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Speaker 3: to something that's coming up quickly? Sometimes the answer is yes,

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Speaker 3: and we'll stick to that subject matter. Sometimes the answer

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Speaker 3: is no. So when the answer is no, that gives

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Speaker 3: us a little bit more space and room to then

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Speaker 3: have the conversations about childhood and upbringing and I know, listen,

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Speaker 3: people don't want to talk about their affinitely, the mommy issues,

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Speaker 3: the daddy issues, the friend issues, the person issues. You know,

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Speaker 3: we all have baggage. And I totally get it, because

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Speaker 3: it's hard to decide that you're going to go unpack

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Speaker 3: that closet. And as we all know, when we clean

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Speaker 3: a closet, we make the room very messy trying to

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Speaker 3: clean out the closet, and sometimes it takes time to

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Speaker 3: put that stuff back in neatly. But that's why I'm

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Speaker 3: here to walk my clients through the process and to

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Speaker 3: understand where the root of some of these patterns came

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Speaker 3: from exactly. And that's what's necessary for long term change.

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Speaker 3: And I tell my clients that I'm like, listen, if

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Speaker 3: you want a short term change where we go through

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Speaker 3: this process and then you may have to come back

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Speaker 3: to me in a little bit, that's okay, but that's

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Speaker 3: really not how I like to work. I would rather

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Speaker 3: go through the nitty gritty, the hardship right now. Do

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Speaker 3: the hard first, so that later on, when you're making

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Speaker 3: these behavioral and financial changes, they stick and you don't

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Speaker 3: feel bad, and yeah, there's reduced chame.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree I was recently talking to a friend

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Speaker 2: who's a physical therapist, and she's just kind of talking

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Speaker 2: about some of the different work that she does, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, hey, by the way, what do you

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Speaker 2: think about chiropractors. You know, you go in, you get

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Speaker 2: that adjustment, and you're like, ah, yeah, I feel great.

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Speaker 2: And she basically said exactly what you just said. But

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Speaker 2: in terms of the body and physical health, right, you

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Speaker 2: can make some of these little tweaks to quick picks,

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Speaker 2: and you might feel good for a little bit, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't address the underlying issues. And I love that

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Speaker 2: that is the goal, certainly your goal, but just I

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Speaker 2: think mental health professionals, generally speaking, one of the things

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Speaker 2: you're able to identify as you kind of dig through

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Speaker 2: that baggage is just some of the beliefs that we

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Speaker 2: have around money, the scripts pre like sometimes folks call

435
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: them money scripts, but like, we have these beliefs, and

436
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 2: it's hard to know whether they're good, whether they're bad,

437
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: whether they're like right or wrong. And it's almost as if,

438
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 2: like as like the process of adulthood is almost just

439
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 2: trying to like experiment and try some of these out

440
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 2: and to figure out whether or not they're accurate or

441
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: not right. And so how do you think that we

442
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 2: can go about doing that when it comes to some

443
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 2: of the different money beliefs that we have.

444
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I would tell people to start looking at

445
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 3: what your money beliefs are, and people very quickly be like, well,

446
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 3: what are you even talking about? Like what do you mean?

447
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: So money beliefs are money narratives. The way I think

448
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: about them is that they are either something that you learn,

449
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 3: picked up on, understood pretty much, cemented to your memory,

450
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 3: and decided this is how, this is what it is right,

451
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 3: this is the truth, This is the infinite truth of

452
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: money in this way?

453
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: And now can you give an example? Is it like

454
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: I will never have enough money? Is that one?

455
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 3: Perfect? Yep, that's a perfect example that could have come. So,

456
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: say you were younger and you grew up in a

457
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: household that didn't have enough money, and you felt like

458
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 3: there was no possible way you were going to get

459
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 3: out of that because you couldn't see it because you

460
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 3: were young. And mind you, the research says that children

461
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 3: start solidifying their money beliefs by between the ages of

462
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 3: seven and nine. So that's that's pretty young. You know,

463
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 3: you're not making money at that time, and if you

464
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 3: started believing I'll never have enough money, it may not

465
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: show up the same way as it was when you

466
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 3: were younger. But as an adult, you may be a

467
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 3: workaholic because you're making three hundred thousand, but you feel

468
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 3: like it will never be enough because that script, that

469
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 3: narrative is still embedded in your mind of what it

470
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 3: looks like to attempt to survive, attempt to make it work.

471
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 3: So then you work yourself into the ground thinking that

472
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 3: you'll never have enough money.

473
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: In your significant others like why do you work all

474
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 1: the time?

475
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: You know?

476
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: And then it crosses these interpersonal lines where that relationship

477
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: suffers because you haven't identified this underlying money belief.

478
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: Exactly, and you're working all the time. You may be

479
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: neglecting your body, You may be neglecting your own mental health.

480
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: And people therapists are not trained to think about money

481
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 3: in that way. We're not trained to start diving into

482
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 3: the financial aspect of people's lives and how that may

483
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: be making their symptomology worse.

484
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: So my wife is actually in graduate school to become

485
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: a mental health welcome clinician. Yeah, So I have you

486
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: guys left to chat at some point, you love that,

487
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: But she that's something she talks about because of what

488
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 1: I do, because of what we talk about in our household.

489
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: She's like, it's so amazing that money is so often

490
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: left out of these mental health conversations when it is

491
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: such an important piece of the puzzle that really should

492
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: be put on the table more often.

493
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah, I'm happy to talk to her about.

494
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 2: It'd be cool. I mean, so, how do you take

495
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: those emotions that we all have obviously, Like, I mean,

496
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: the answer isn't to be more robotic necessarily and to

497
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: eliminate any sort of happiness, but also sadness for our life.

498
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 2: How should we take those emotions and how should they

499
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: interact with our money and with our finances in a

500
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 2: healthy way.

501
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think realizing kind of what your money

502
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 3: narrative was that you had in the past, and also

503
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 3: giving yourself grace, like allowing yourself to remember, Hey, this

504
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 3: developed out of a place that I am no longer in,

505
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: and I know that I was just trying to make

506
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: it and I was doing the best that I can.

507
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: Thank you, younger me because that was helpful. And now

508
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: the new older me that knows differently needs to, you know,

509
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: shift to make sure that that's how we're living now.

510
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 3: So have grace, don't be mean to yourself.

511
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 2: That does not help.

512
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 3: Shame does not motivate people. And then it's time to like, okay, now,

513
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 3: how can we be better and what are we going

514
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 3: to be doing differently? And let let's be honest about

515
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 3: the emotions that happened, because I think what happens, especially

516
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 3: my work, is that people find the narrative or we

517
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: pinpoint the moment or the root cause, and they see

518
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 3: the pattern. They're like, Okay, great, I'm healed, and I

519
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 3: laugh because it's just not true. Like that is actually

520
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 3: when you start doing the hard work. That's when it's like,

521
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 3: oh I.

522
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 2: Am just step one.

523
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: Yea epiphany is necessary, but it's not going to fix

524
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: it exactly.

525
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: Oh I just realized that I'm doing this and now

526
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: I have to do a different behavior That is the

527
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 3: hard work.

528
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay. So so emotions are certainly a part

529
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: of that, and we don't want to cut ourselves off

530
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: from all those feelings because feelings are necessary. They're a

531
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: big part of what makes as human. But what about

532
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: where's the intersection, what about concrete action steps? Like creating

533
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: a plan, right, how does that? Maybe does that help

534
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,119
Speaker 1: us overcome some of those negative feelings sometimes and you

535
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: just don't want to paper over over them. But so

536
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: as you need a to do list like things do

537
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: actually accomplish. At the same time as you're kind of

538
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: you've got the epiphany, maybe you kind of see, oh wait,

539
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: that's my limiting money belief. That's how this is this

540
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 1: and this and this is how it's impacting me. Then

541
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: how do we start to move forward?

542
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so definitely having that plan right, deciding what your

543
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 3: financial priorities are and how you're going to accomplish them

544
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 3: however that is, whatever works for you. And then also

545
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 3: having a plan for when you get upset when something

546
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: is hitting that button. When something is we use the

547
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 3: word trigger a lot, So when something's triggering that emotional

548
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 3: state for you, what are you going to do? Then

549
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 3: you need a plan for that as well, not just

550
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 3: your financial plan, because that's when it gets hard to

551
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 3: make sure that you make a different choice than you

552
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: don't harm yourself anyway, like financially, so that you need

553
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: a plan or coping skill or something that's going to

554
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 3: help help you regulate feeling emotionally heightened.

555
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes so much sense because I has

556
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: to stay away from Appleby's during half price appetizers because

557
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: he'll go overboard. I get triggered as I love what

558
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 1: you're saying, because unique when you are emotionally in an

559
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: emotionally heightened state, that's when you're going to be most

560
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: likely to take the wrong action anyway. So yeah, having

561
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: a plan so that you are just kind of doing

562
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: the right things because we don't always feel feel like

563
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. It makes me think about, like

564
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: you mentioned, going out on like date nights with your husband.

565
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: It makes me think how grateful I am so my

566
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: wife and I, no matter what it's on the calendar,

567
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: every two weeks we go out on a date night,

568
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: and sometimes I don't necessarily want to go right, and

569
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 1: like it just feels like we're kind of checking a

570
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: box because it is this repeating event. But what I

571
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: find is that by sitting there by looking at or

572
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: having a conversation, connecting to do laundry, and connecting as

573
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: husband and wife, by the end of that I am

574
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,719
Speaker 1: so a thankful that we went on a date night,

575
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: and it makes me want to go on another date night.

576
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: Again very soon, and so I guess, yeah, talk to

577
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: me about that. Do you think that there should be

578
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: things that we do? I'm trying to relate this back

579
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: to money, right, like you, what are some of the

580
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: different things you think we should be doing, I guess

581
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: with our money, even when we don't feel like they're

582
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: things that we want to do, because I think a

583
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: lot of times folks feel that they need to have

584
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: a full understanding of exactly what it is that they

585
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,919
Speaker 1: should be doing with their money or they should or

586
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: that they need to feel good about their money, as

587
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: opposed to knowing that well, I need a I know,

588
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: I need to just do this because this is going

589
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: to get me towards closer towards building wealth. This is

590
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 1: going to get me towards closer towards financial independence. Can

591
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: you talk about that for a second. Does that make sense? Yeah?

592
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,239
Speaker 3: So I'm you're going to keep me on track. I'm

593
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: going to hold you to it, but I'm going to

594
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 3: get there in a roundabout way, do it?

595
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: I love it?

596
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: So.

597
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: First, for your example, you going out on your date

598
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: with your wife is self care to the point of like,

599
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: why we are here to talking about this? You stepping

600
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: outside of your life, stepping away from the laundry, the

601
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: responsibilities as parents, and just being back to like, oh

602
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: hey this remember this all started because we loved each other,

603
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 3: Like this is all This all started because we fell

604
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: in love. And being able to be there together allows

605
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: you to then step back into your responsibilities and feel

606
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: more equipped to handle them, more rested, better about yourself,

607
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: better about your foundation and your partnership, whatever it might be. Right,

608
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 3: yours is date night, but it could be something else

609
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: for somebody.

610
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: Sure.

611
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, being more prepared to handle the responsibilities makes it

612
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: easier for you to put that back into your budget,

613
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 3: to realize, hey, this is really important for us to

614
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 3: have this time. We do need to spend money on

615
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: a date night or carve out the time, no matter

616
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: what it looks like, because it pours back into us

617
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: and this is a value that we have and what

618
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: you're doing is just expressing that with your money as well.

619
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: So it could be the g for some people. Okay,

620
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: you go to the gym in the morning. You're paying

621
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 3: for this gym membership. Could you cut it? Sure? But

622
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: are you going to go do the other things? And

623
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 3: does that mean you're going to let some of your

624
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: self care behaviors go by the wayside because you aren't

625
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: having that routine with the gym.

626
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: For sure. Talk to me about negative amplifiers of emotional

627
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: and mental health, and I'm specifically thinking of things like

628
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: loneliness or social media. That the more disconnected we feel

629
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: from our loved ones and the more we're on social

630
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: media typically that has for most people from everything that

631
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: I've seen and read, it has a negative impact on

632
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: how they're feeling about their life. And that's the highlight

633
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: reel on Instagram, right, I mean, there's a bunch of

634
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: things we cant highlight, are just missing out on community involvement.

635
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: So I know we're mostly talking about money here, but

636
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: I feel like the more disconnect we feel and the

637
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: more anxious we feel, the more likely we are to

638
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: do bad things with our money. So what do you

639
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: think about those inputs the way that they impact how

640
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: we think and feel and actually the things that we

641
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: do with the money that we have.

642
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 3: So I completely agree with you, and I think a

643
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 3: lot of it has to do with comparison. So if

644
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: you are scrolling and you're looking at social media, and

645
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 3: you're looking at somebody's highlight reel while you're on the

646
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 3: couch with your hand in your ice cream tub. Nothing

647
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: is going to look good right Like you are going

648
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: to sit there and feel so bad about what your

649
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: life looks like compared to who's Whoever's pictures you're seeing

650
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 3: that look perfectly curated and look really great.

651
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 2: Right.

652
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 3: Exactly? That feels awful where And I'm like, listen, this

653
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: took a lot of work to get. You may not

654
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: have seen it, but it took a lot of time

655
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 3: and preparation, and we lose track of that so quickly

656
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: because it's right there in front of us all the time.

657
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 3: So if you're following a ton of people, you can

658
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: just see it. I tell my clients all the time.

659
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, listen, is somebody was following you with a

660
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: camera and had some good lighting and put some well

661
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: timed music to your favorite day. Doesn't that sound like

662
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: a highlight reel to you?

663
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah?

664
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 3: Basically, because that is exactly what it is. And I

665
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: think we forget that people who are creating content, this

666
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: is a job for them. There is a skill that

667
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: comes to making that work. And I think when the

668
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: social media platforms started, it wasn't like that, right, It

669
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 3: was just kind of like I mean, I was in

670
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: college when Facebook started and we were taking pictures on

671
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,719
Speaker 3: a digital camera that may have fallen in a cup

672
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 3: of beer. Like it was just it was messy and

673
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 3: it wasn't perfectly curated. But the way it has worked

674
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: out is that now it looks different and we compare

675
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 3: ourselves and then that leads to, you know, low self esteem,

676
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 3: which can lead to depression or feeling anxious or feeling

677
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: like you're not living up to what people your age

678
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 3: or your peers are doing, and that can lead to anxiety.

679
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: So all of these symptoms, if you will, or feelings

680
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: that can come up, can go in a negative place

681
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,960
Speaker 3: if you let them spiral to that place. And the

682
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 3: comparison really is a gasoline on the fire to that.

683
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: And what happens when you feel that way is that

684
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: you are trying to cope, You're trying your hard is

685
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: to feel better, and a lot of that is instant gratification,

686
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: and that means you're spending money. So if that means, hey,

687
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: I'm ordering uber eats because I'm depressed and I can't

688
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 3: I can't even think about making dinner right now, then

689
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 3: it's so quick to just spend that twenty five thirty

690
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: bucks to have a meal.

691
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: So ny it's right on the phone, it's what's in

692
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 2: the app, the or streamline everything.

693
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 3: Right, or you're like, hey, look at that awesome home

694
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 3: that they have, Like look at those throw pillows. Oh

695
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: look they're linked and so is my credit card. Click

696
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: click click, I bought those pillows. I'm gonna feel as

697
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 3: good too. So it is really really easy to spend

698
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: our money now, and what we're trying to do is

699
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: feel better. So that's when I talk about going back

700
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: to what do you do when you're triggered? If you're

701
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: not realizing that you're triggered, you're just gonna spend your money.

702
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: Sometimes for some people, people do something things.

703
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: You know, But sure, yeah, yeah, I'm sure there's some

704
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: folks who do the exact opposite, right, and from a

705
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: financial standpoint, they probably aren't struggling quite as much, at

706
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: least in that way, but they assuming certainly they've got

707
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 2: other issues going on where still there are issues for

708
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: them to work through. But yeah, yeah, social media it's

709
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 2: it's kind of the worst, right because, Like, on one hand,

710
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: I do like it because the ability for folks to

711
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: talk about money.

712
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: And out of money Facebook group is one of the best.

713
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: It's just away for us to reduce the taboo that

714
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 2: surrounds personal finance and money. But on the other hand,

715
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 2: like you said, the comparison game, I think ultimately is

716
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: a is a net loss. But can we talk about

717
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: trauma for for a quick second here, if that's possible,

718
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 2: let's talk. Let's quickly talk about trauma. I feel like

719
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: it's a word that you hear being tossed around a lot,

720
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: Like I feel like it kind of gets maybe used

721
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: too much. I don't know, I'm sure if you feel

722
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: that way. But what is financial trauma and specifically, like,

723
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 2: what is it that causes financial trauma?

724
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, so financial trauma to me is a negative feeling

725
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: that you have because of a hardship that you lived through.

726
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: So a financial trauma, I mean, the definition kind of fluctuates.

727
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: In my own definition fluctuates, so I'll give that disclaimer

728
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 3: as well. But it's pretty much if you live through

729
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: somebody one of your parents, lost a job, or you

730
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 3: had to move abruptly because you were being evicted, or

731
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: you are twenty something and are up to debt, like

732
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 3: in debt up to your eyeballs and you don't know

733
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: what to do with it, and you're anxious and you

734
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: can't sleep anymore. It's feeling like you can't compare to

735
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: anybody else or your peers because you don't have enough

736
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 3: money to quote unquote keep up. All of those things,

737
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,879
Speaker 3: no matter how big or small, can be traumatic and

738
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 3: can take root inside of you that start to kind

739
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: of influence how you think about yourself in the world.

740
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: Say you came from a very wealthy family and at

741
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: a certain age you moved out and you got a job,

742
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 3: but you are not able to afford the same lifestyle

743
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: that you had with your wealthy family. You take on

744
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 3: credit cards and you're getting in debt. You could easily

745
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: start writing this script that says I'll never get out

746
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: of debt, like I won't be able to get out

747
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: of this debt unless I ask my parents. But I

748
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: don't want to ask my parents, and you know, then

749
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,959
Speaker 3: we're down the cycle. So it's very easy for people

750
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 3: to have these financially traumatic situations happen, and they are

751
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 3: very common. And I want to just say, I think

752
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: we have this idea that people who are wealthy or

753
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 3: rich or have a lot of money don't have any

754
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: financial traumas, and that's not the case. A lot of

755
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 3: times we talk about it from the other side, where

756
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: people grew up in a situation where there wasn't enough

757
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: means to kind of cover. But financial trauma really doesn't

758
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: care how much money you have. It's just that it

759
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 3: was traumatic. It's about the experience of the person, and

760
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 3: just because it was traumatic to you doesn't mean it

761
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 3: was traumatic for somebody else who went through the same

762
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 3: exact experience as you.

763
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: So is the goal to overcome to defeat the financial

764
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: trauma or is it more about like harnessing it to

765
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: help you move forward? To me, Matt and I we've

766
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: talked in the past about using financial stressors in your

767
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: life to your advantage, to kind of point you towards

768
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: the things that need to be worked on. It's easier

769
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: to let that like overwhelm you, right, But then there

770
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: are other ways where you can do a jiu jitsu

771
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: move and you can kind of take advantage of that

772
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: stress and turn it into action. So I don't know

773
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on that and how we move

774
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: forward and what are we trying to accomplish as we

775
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: do that.

776
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I mean to me, I would love

777
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 3: for everybody to be able to heal and feel better,

778
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 3: But a lot of it is just acknowledging it that

779
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: this had an impact on you. And a lot of

780
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: times people have a hard time acknowledging that because it

781
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: also may involve their family. It might feel disrespectful to say, oh,

782
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: that was really hard for me when you know your

783
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 3: parents were trying their hardest and doing their best. Yeah,

784
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 3: and that's that to me, are two different things. You

785
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 3: can love your parents, they could have been doing their best,

786
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: and it could still be hard for you, and things

787
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: can be true at the same time. So it's about

788
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: acknowledging that you through this and that it was hard,

789
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 3: and sometimes it informs what you do with your money,

790
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,879
Speaker 3: and you don't want it to anymore. So let's give

791
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: ourselves grace and figure out what our financial priorities are

792
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: and then figure out what do we need to do

793
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 3: to feel better when those old memories are coming up,

794
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: when we're triggered, when we're having a hard time, and

795
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 3: be nice to yourself, like shame is the worst. Financial

796
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 3: shame is awful, and it makes people feel terrible about

797
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: themselves and I'm just not for it. So I'm just

798
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: like we got to get rid of it.

799
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're anti shame too, because it's it breeds the

800
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 1: opposite of action.

801
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't lead to anywhere that it doesn't lead for

802
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: nowhere productive.

803
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not productive. It's that's what you're wallowing. You're

804
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: sitting there, you're beating yourself up and you're not really

805
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: actually taking any steps to move forward to get beyond it.

806
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: So we've got a couple more questions to get to

807
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: with you, h including we got to talk about boundaries,

808
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: and that especially is like your money situation changes, maybe

809
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 1: those how you deal with money, stuff with it interpersonally,

810
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: with your significant other, maybe with your parents who raised you.

811
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that more right after this.

812
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 2: Right, we are back still talking here with Asia Evans

813
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: and Asia. So far the work that you've guided to

814
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 2: our listeners through is more personal and internal. Right, So

815
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: let's step outside of that a little Bit's talk about

816
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 2: other people and.

817
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: Specifically we make them different.

818
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: How do we change the lives of the people around us.

819
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 2: I don't want to change. I want them to change.

820
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then my life will be better by proxy.

821
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 2: No, So you literally were before we hit record, you

822
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: were talking about how you literally, I guess twenty minutes

823
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 2: before we started talking. You trend In the first draft

824
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: of your book, it's called but I Only Got Water,

825
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: and it's the title of the book. Obviously it's a

826
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 2: nod to the predicament of splitting a dinner and trying

827
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: to figure out how to pay the check. Yeah, and

828
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 2: with your friend, can you tell us about the book,

829
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 2: you know, do you mostly focus on some of those

830
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: modern day money anxieties that we all face.

831
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the book is pretty much about how our

832
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 3: relationship to money is formed, and then it goes into

833
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 3: some of the limiting beliefs that we may have. So

834
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 3: whether it is thinking about how you're going to split

835
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: the check at the group dinner or when you're squalking

836
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,840
Speaker 3: down target and you want to buy all of the things,

837
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 3: which I happen to feel quite frequent. So, just how

838
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: some of the limiting money beliefs show up for you

839
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 3: and how they kind of interact with your money in

840
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,760
Speaker 3: a way that you either do or do not want anymore.

841
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: You've talked about this, I think in your relationship with

842
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: your own mom, about how once you've had a degree

843
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: of financial success, it can change the interactions between you

844
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: and a parent, you and a spouse how but like

845
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: different cultures, different families have varying opinions as to what's

846
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: expected of you once you've had that degree of financial success, right,

847
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: and you say that setting proper boundaries is one of

848
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: the most important things when it comes to relational health boundaries.

849
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: That's one of those things that a word I did

850
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: not understand very much in my early twenties, but late

851
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:08,239
Speaker 1: thirties I understand it a whole lot more. How would

852
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: you go about recommending people think about setting boundaries when

853
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: it comes to money and relationships?

854
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 3: So I would say the first step is deciding where

855
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 3: they need to be. I think a lot of times

856
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 3: people want to set boundaries, but they don't know where

857
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 3: they should be, Like when is it okay? So the

858
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 3: first step is really deciding where do you start to

859
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: get uncomfortable. Where do you start to feel like, oh gosh,

860
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: I don't want to have this conversation, or oh gosh,

861
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 3: they might ask me for money, or I want to

862
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: give them money, but they're really uncomfortable about it. That

863
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 3: is a signifier to tell you, like, hey, something's going

864
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 3: on with your boundaries, Like when you start getting uncomfortable

865
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 3: or feeling uneasy after that, thinking about like, Okay, how

866
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: can I have this conversation to set the boundary in

867
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: a way that I feel comfortable and I feel safe,

868
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: and I am also not trying to hurt their feelings.

869
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 3: And I think that's where we all get, you know,

870
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 3: a little caught up because we don't want to hurt

871
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: the other person's feelings, but we are hurting ourselves and

872
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: not protecting our own boundaries. So we have to be

873
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 3: brave and be kind to ourselves and try as hard

874
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 3: as possible to just like let them know what is

875
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 3: comfortable for you and what isn't, what you're willing to

876
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: do and what you aren't willing to do. So similar

877
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: to what you were saying. When I started making a

878
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 3: certain amount of money, my mom was like, okay, here

879
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: take this phone bill, like she just gave me her

880
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: phone bill, just like here too. Culturally, I'm a black woman,

881
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 3: that was totally appropriate. Culturally, I was not shocked by it.

882
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 3: I almost like expect the ordinary for you have the

883
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 3: ordinary for me at all. But for some of my

884
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 3: white counterparts that I have shared this story with, they're like,

885
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, what my parts are still paying my phone Bill.

886
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, I'm oppositely.

887
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

888
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,280
Speaker 1: Were you like, Mom, we're putting you on mint Mobile

889
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: right now? Yeah?

890
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: No, I'm like, okay, here we go with the Rizon Bill.

891
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: Well, how do you I guess, yeah, as you start

892
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: to have some of these conversation and how do you

893
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: go about doing that? Well, obviously it's not like a

894
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: one war text that you shoot over to somebody and

895
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: you're like, you want to be able to provide some

896
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: sort of some sort of explanation. I guess, and you

897
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 2: probably want to do it in person. But I guess

898
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 2: how much information is too much information?

899
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 3: You're talking to a therapist? Yes, I'm always about that communication.

900
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: I'm sure a vari is per individual, and it depends

901
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 2: on this circumstanced pretty much.

902
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 3: How much are you willing to share without again feeling

903
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: like your boundaries are uncomfortable. If you're going to tell

904
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 3: somebody how much you're making, but you know that they're

905
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 3: going to tell the whole family that you don't feel

906
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 3: comfortable letting them know that information. You don't want the

907
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 3: whole family to know, then I wouldn't share it. So

908
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 3: you decide what feels safe for you, what feels comfortable

909
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 3: for your transparency and how to have that conversation with

910
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: that person. And when I say the conversation, I mean

911
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 3: you leading with I feel I want I statements always,

912
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 3: I statements for what you're going through and let them

913
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 3: know what will work for you and what will not

914
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 3: work for you. So I was comfortable taking my mom's

915
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 3: phone bill on so I let her know. It's like okay, Mom,

916
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 3: like that's fine, blah blah blah, move on from there.

917
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: But if it was like, hey, Asia, can you pay

918
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: my rent?

919
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: For example, I feel like that's a terrible idea.

920
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 3: But you have to have a conversation. Mom. I love

921
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 3: you so much, but I'm not financially able to carry

922
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: your rent and my own at the same time. And

923
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: I want to be able to help you wherever I can.

924
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: So how do we find a way that we both

925
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 3: can feel comfortable because I would feel uncomfortable way.

926
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 2: Well, the way you do it, it makes it sound

927
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: so easy. But what I'm gathering here, though, is to

928
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 2: not say not to blame it on the other person,

929
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: which is why you always do that exactly. Yeah, going

930
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: back to changing other people around us.

931
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 3: And that's hard when you have started doing some of

932
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: this work, and not just the financial work, but the

933
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 3: work on yourself. When you start having insight on yourself,

934
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: it's really hard to recognize other people around you who

935
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: may not have that level of insight for themselves, and

936
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 3: that's difficult.

937
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Asia, this has been just such a

938
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: great conversation, so much insight, so much value I think

939
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: for people, because yeah, when it comes down to it,

940
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: how we feel about our money, how we feel about

941
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: our lives, impacts every aspect of our personal finances and

942
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: it's really important. Or I guess one last thing I

943
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: want to ask you is like, when does somebody know, Hey,

944
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: they've just heard this, maybe this is either a great

945
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: primer they need to go see somebody, they need to

946
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: go talk to a mental health professional. Or when is

947
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: this done just fine within community as a solo mission,

948
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: or when do they actually need to seek paid professional help.

949
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I would say if you find yourself really

950
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 3: really anxious, So if you are, you can't sleep, you

951
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 3: have your stomach hurts, you're having trouble breathing, If you're

952
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: having anxiety attacks or panic attacks, especially about your money,

953
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 3: definitely seek out a financial therapist, specifically one that may

954
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: have clinical background so they can help work you through

955
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 3: some of those anxiety attacks or panic attacks. I would

956
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: also say, if you find yourself just doing the same

957
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: thing over and over again, if you feel like you are,

958
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 3: you know you've listened, you have the personal finance education,

959
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,359
Speaker 3: but you keep making the same money mistakes, you keep

960
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 3: beating yourself up about it. It's the same pattern happening

961
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 3: over and over again. I would definitely get in touch

962
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: with the financial therapist.

963
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: And where can folks find out more about you and

964
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: what you're up to.

965
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 3: Ah So, I am on Instagram at Asia Ajae Therapy

966
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 3: or you can find me on my website which is

967
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: Asiaevanscounseling dot com.

968
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: Awesome all that in the show notes, absolutely and thank

969
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: you again for joining us.

970
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 2: Thanks nice dude. I think this is my favorite conversation

971
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 2: that we've ever had about about mental health, because, like

972
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: you hear mental health and maybe this is just me,

973
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: but oftentimes it seems like this super I guess a

974
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 2: setting where it's just like, think about your childhood ethereal

975
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 2: harder to put your finger on those really nebulous It's

976
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: like nav Gazi trying to nail slime to a wall

977
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: or something like that. And I feel like Asia was

978
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 2: able to make it practical, and so my big takeaway

979
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 2: I think it was when we're talking about emotions specifically

980
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: and how we just need to give ourselves a little

981
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 2: bit of grace because what we have done in the past,

982
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: right like that has informed who we are today, but

983
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily mean that that is what we need

984
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: to continue to do. She was saying like she was

985
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 2: taking a very thankful posture towards that, where she's just like, Okay,

986
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 2: that was necessary for that point in your life. That

987
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: is how you survived. Was that informed how it is

988
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:26,320
Speaker 2: that you earned money, or that informed how you spent money.

989
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: But once you've identified a new priority, a new value,

990
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 2: you can move essentially move on from. That is sort

991
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: of what I took from her talking about.

992
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: The more you let it define you, the more it

993
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: will continue to impact your future.

994
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 2: You're basically just trapped, which I also love how at

995
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 2: the end she was talking about that, she was just

996
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: saying like, hey, if you find yourself in the same patterns,

997
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: if you're in the same rut and you can't get out, well,

998
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: then maybe somebody needs to come alongside you to kind

999
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: of kind of jar you out out of those rats

1000
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 2: a little bit party pro yeah, but to not beat

1001
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: yourself up over the things that happened in the past,

1002
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: knowing that, hey, there are changes that you can make now.

1003
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: Let that help to inform your decisions moving forward. And

1004
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: that was my big table.

1005
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: When does it ever help to just punch yourself in

1006
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: the house, you know, like helpful? Literally from a physical standpoint,

1007
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: you're just going to hurt yourself. But then also when

1008
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 1: you're doing it from an emotional standpoint, it's you're not

1009
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: making you're not improving right, and you're not exactly you're

1010
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: not even going through some of those emotions that they're

1011
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,919
Speaker 1: really roiling on the inside totally. So can't you can't

1012
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: just do that? I think my big takeaway was kind

1013
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: of towards the and when we talked about minding the inputs.

1014
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of folks feel like those

1015
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: things are unrelated. Whether it's social media, whether it's the fact,

1016
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: whether it's a lack of community relationships, those things kind

1017
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: of feel completely untangled for money, But I think they're

1018
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 1: far more entangled than we like to give them credit

1019
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: for sure, And it's really important to think about, well,

1020
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: how much news am I consuming and how much social

1021
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: media am I consuming? Do I need to take the

1022
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: app off my phone completely? Is that gonna actually change

1023
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: not only just how I feel as an individual, how

1024
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: it feel as a person, but also is it going

1025
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: to change how I interact with and relate to my money,

1026
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: how I spend and how I choose to save.

1027
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: Not just your money but people. Right, It has an

1028
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: impact on how we treat other people and then our

1029
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: community around it. It has such like we are more

1030
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 2: holistic beings than I think we give ourselves credit for.

1031
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 2: And like you said, we think we can isolate different

1032
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 2: things in our lives, but it has a bigger impact

1033
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: on us than we I think could ultimately realize.

1034
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: And when you look at the numbers, not to bash,

1035
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: but there is a preponderance of TV and social media,

1036
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: TV watching and social media usage in this country. And

1037
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: if we would cut down on those things and spend

1038
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: a little more time in real human interaction, I think

1039
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: we'd all be healthier. And guess what, I think we'd

1040
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: have more money at the end of the day too.

1041
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: It's weird to say, but I think those things are

1042
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 1: related for sure.

1043
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: Totally agree.

1044
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: All right, let's get back to the beer that we

1045
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: had on this episode. This is a Quality Time calsh

1046
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: is by Inner Voice Brewing, And actually we picked this

1047
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 1: beer up at the How To Money Hang in Atlanta,

1048
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 1: which made quality time. Do we had quality time with.

1049
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: Good what a perfect beer for We should have only

1050
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 2: all been drinking Quality Time, That's right. So I love

1051
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 2: the label. First of all, there's like two beer glass

1052
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 2: characters on the front of it, and it's just like

1053
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 2: two buddies. Yep, reminds me of us. But I also

1054
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 2: love the design of the label. It's like quality Time

1055
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 2: is written over and over and over, like nineteen seventies.

1056
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 2: It's very nineteen seventies. Specifically, what it makes me think

1057
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 2: of is the plastic bag that you would get at

1058
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 2: like a quickie mart, like at a gas station, where

1059
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 2: it says thank you. It's like thank you, thank you,

1060
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 2: thank you. That's totally what that looks like. It does.

1061
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1062
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a mash up between like mister Yuck.

1063
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: You remember the Mister Yuck stickers? You don't remember miss

1064
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: oh you see, I think you're a touch too young

1065
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: for this. Mister Yuck was this character in the eighties.

1066
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 2: I remember being like a kindergartener and somebody would come

1067
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: to your class and you talk about poison, and you

1068
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 2: got these stickers and you stick them on things that

1069
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to drink, like rubbing alcohol or something

1070
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: like like write something in at home that you know

1071
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 2: as bad. You put mister yuck on there. That way

1072
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: you're not you don't accidentally drink it or something like that.

1073
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 2: That's what I think of when it's seen this Libea anyway,

1074
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 2: probably had to put that up all over your house

1075
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: just to prevent you from stick them on everything. And

1076
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: I think my parents were annoyed.

1077
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: You put it on like the green beans of dinner,

1078
00:50:59,280 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: and her mom's like.

1079
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 2: This, this is yeah, but yeah, what we your thoughts

1080
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 2: on on this cultsh? So?

1081
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: I thought this was was crisp, refreshing and a little

1082
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,240
Speaker 1: bit creamy too, which is kind of nicely interesting.

1083
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 2: Crisp and creamy.

1084
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that really interesting combos. I don't really know

1085
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 1: the last time I had a coolsh, but I was like,

1086
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: oh man, this actually kind of makes me want to

1087
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: go down that path a little more. And I don't

1088
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: really know what distinguishes a kulsh from a pilsner. Now

1089
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to do some research, but I really

1090
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 1: like this one.

1091
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 2: You would think it would be something that we would know,

1092
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: but we don't like drinking it.

1093
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1094
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 2: We know way more about IPAs and stauts and honestly

1095
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 2: sours as well, and even like barrel aged stuff. But

1096
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: some of those different European beers were a little in

1097
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 2: the dark about. But that doesn't mean we can't enjoy

1098
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: these beers. But I totally agree. Really clean, refreshing crisp

1099
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: remind me of like biting into like a like a

1100
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: fresh green apple or like a tart paar kind of

1101
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: had some of those vibes going on. But I'm glad

1102
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 2: you and I got to enjoy one of these today

1103
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: on the episode. But we'll have links up in the

1104
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 2: shows with this episode at howdomoney dot com. We'll make

1105
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 2: sure to link to Asia's site where you can learn

1106
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 2: more just about mental health generally speaking, but then also man, yeah,

1107
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: if you meet the criteria that she recommended there at

1108
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 2: the end for when it might be time for you

1109
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 2: to reach out to somebody. I really like how it

1110
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 2: is that Asia is talking about mental health and specifically

1111
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: how it impacts our money. But glad we got to

1112
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: talk with her today. But buddy, that is gonna be

1113
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 2: it for this episode, So until next time, best Friends Out,

1114
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: best Friends Out,