1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: P I Magazine is the most respected magazine of the 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: professional investigator, featuring stories and articles on current topics, equipment reviews, 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: investigative tips, and practical advice for the professional investigator. Don't 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: miss a single issue of PI Magazine. Subscribe today at 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: PI magazine dot com. Use this show's promotional code for 6 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: your special discount at p I magazine dot com. Subscribe 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: today use promo code Nancy for your special discount. That's 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: promo code Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius 9 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: XM Triumph. A serial killer stalking Virginia along the Colonial Parkway, 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: still no resolution? Who, what, Where? Why? When? I'm Nancy Grace, 11 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: How has a serial killer managed to elude law and enforcement? 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Four couples, eight people that we know of dead as 14 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: a result at the hand of the Colonial Parkway killer. 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: With me Bill Thomas, the brother um serial killer victim 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: Kathleen Thomas, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, 17 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: renowned l A psycho analyst, Dr Bethany Marshall, and Crime 18 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter Lee Agan. Let me first 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: start with Bill, whose sister Kathleen lost her life to 20 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: this Colonial Parkway serial killer Bill. What is the Colonial Parkway? Well, thanks, Nancy. 21 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: The Colonial Parkway is a national park. It's a beautiful 22 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: twenty three mile long ribbon of land that was created 23 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: by the National Park Service to create to create the 24 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: feel of an old time highway. And it connects the 25 00:01:54,480 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: historic sites of Colonial Williamsburg, Jamestown, and Yorktown. And you 26 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: say it's beautiful. Why as a serial killer named Bill 27 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: Thomas after the Colonial Parkway, there is a beautiful stretch 28 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: of roads. Well. Sadly, two of the four double homicides, 29 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: including my sister Kathy Thomas and her girlfriend Rebecca Dowski. 30 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: Two of the double homicides happened on the Colonial Parkway, 31 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: and then the other two murders of couples happened in 32 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: other lovers lane situations about half an hour in either 33 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: direction from the center point, which would be the Parkway. 34 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: And newspapers in the media named the case some thirty 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: years ago and they began calling it the Colonial Parkway murders. Wow, Okay, 36 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: what I don't understand is the m O to Cheryl McCullum, 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute, you know, it 38 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: sounds a lot like Son of Sam's m O. David Berkowitz, 39 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: who would target people sitting in cars and just with 40 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: no connection to the victim, didn't know them before, didn't 41 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: have a grudge, wasn't angry about something that happened in 42 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: the neighborhood or at work. We'll just unload shoot them dead. 43 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: And that's the hardest kind of case to solve when 44 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: there is no known connection between the victim and the killer. 45 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, Nancy has got a very son of 46 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: sand Field as well as Zodiac, very spontaneous just you know, 47 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: there's no rhyme or reason for it. There's no clear motives, 48 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: there's no confirmed signs of like robbery or rape. It 49 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: looked like he literally stop them, watched them, and then 50 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: approached them and killed them. Let's talk about serial killer 51 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: victim Kathleen Thomas. Bill. Tell me about the moment you 52 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: discovered Kathleen was dead. Well, for me, it started on 53 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: a Sunday. I got a phone call. I was at 54 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: my apartment in Philadelphia. I was working for our CIA 55 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: Video back then, and the phone rang. It was my 56 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: mom and dad calling from Lowell, Massachusetts, up near Boston. 57 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: Where my family is from. And it was both my 58 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: mom and dad on the phone, and they sounded so 59 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: serious from the word go. It wasn't unusual for me 60 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: to hear from them on a weekend, and usually the 61 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: calls were fun and just you know, family updates. Four kids, 62 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm the second oldest, and but my folks sounded so 63 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: deadly serious from the word go. And I remember the 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: first thing my dad said is are you sitting down? 65 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: And I remember thinking what a weird thing to say. 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: And then my dad began telling me my He did 67 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: most of the talking, um, and he began by telling 68 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: me that that my sister Kathy had been found murdered 69 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: along with her girlfriend, Rebecca Dowski in her car on 70 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: the Colonial Parkway. And so I just sat there and 71 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: listened and asked questions, UM as they laid out what 72 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: they knew. We knew it was an FBI case right 73 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: from the beginning, which we thought was a good sign 74 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: because it was on federal property. But they weren't sure 75 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: at that point exactly what Kat and Becky were doing there. 76 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: But the car had been discovered that Sunday along the 77 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: the York River. Um, it had been somewhat obscured from 78 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: the parkway itself by being pushed down an embankment, so 79 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: they actually thought they'd been there for several days, and 80 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: he you know, walked me through you know what we knew. 81 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: And it occurred to me years later that you know, 82 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: back then, uh, the only way you could get ahold 83 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: of somebody was either call him at home or call 84 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: him at work. That was it, no cell phones. And 85 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: it occurred to me later that my parents had to 86 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: make that same difficult call three times in a row, 87 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: first to my older brother Richard, then me, and then 88 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: my younger brother Jack in in New York City. And 89 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: you know, I was thinking about how difficult that had 90 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: to be. I'm analyzing this as we go, Cheryl McCallum. 91 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: So you have not just the murderer, but the murder 92 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: is a double murder, but also trying to cover up 93 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: the murder by pushing the vehicle over an embankment. Now 94 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: that's interesting, and I'll tell you why, Cheryl, Because if 95 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: it's a random killing, typically there's a motive like a theft, 96 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: sex assault, anger, revenge, and the person hits and leaves. 97 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: If it's random, there's no prior connection. But the fact 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: that the killer took so much time to hide the 99 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: crime scene suggests not random take a listen to a 100 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: special agent. Earthwell says, both young women's throat were deeply 101 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: cut off, their heads almost severed. Diesel fuel, as has 102 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: been reported, was pored over the bodies, and attempts were 103 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: made to ignite it. The totality of those circumstances made 104 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: us start looking at possible Waterman that it's also my 105 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: opinion that there had to be two killers because these 106 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: vigorous young women thought back. It's my personal andion that 107 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: the killers in the Dowski Thomas case we're not the 108 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: same as the others. I find that very hard to 109 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: believe that you've got essentially the same emo along the 110 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: same stretch of Scenic Highway and they're not connected to 111 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalysts out of Los Angeles. Bethany 112 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: way in on the mode of murder. Well, here's what 113 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: I think. The person who perpetrated this was acting out 114 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: of the part of the brain that is not responsible 115 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: for white hot rage. White hot rage is part of 116 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: all mammal brains. It's like you've skept on my territory. 117 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: You've you've taken something from me. I'm enraged out of 118 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: our attachment system. Um, you've gone over the edge, and 119 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: now I'm going to protect myself in some way. That 120 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: that is not the m O for this killer. The 121 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: m O is cool, cold blooded, predatory murder. This comes 122 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: from the part of the brain of sort of the 123 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: lion that's out in the savannah and the springbok runs by, 124 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: and he just grabs the springbok for lunch, doesn't even 125 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: think twice about it, yummy lunch, doesn't think about the 126 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: ruthlessness of having killed the springbok. So this guy, because 127 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: most serial murders are men, as we know, this was 128 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: deliciously satisfying in some way to perpetrate murders on couples. 129 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: Why couples are not quite sure. Maybe there was some 130 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: significance of the sexuality or the romance or two people 131 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: being together caught his imagination. But I imagine that the 132 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: slicing of the next the rope burns around the first 133 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: couple's neck, the placing of the body, that there was 134 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: something methodical, ritualized and sort of exciting and fun might 135 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: seem like a strange word to use, but fun about 136 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: carrying out these murders. Now the idea that he poured 137 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: uh gasoline on the first couple and on the car, 138 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: but it failed to unite. I think there was some 139 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: haphazard attempt to cover up this crime so that he 140 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: group go on and eventually commit another one. I'm detected. 141 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: I'm joining me also, Sheryl McCollum, director of the Cold 142 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Case Research Institute, Cheryl, what about it? I agree completely 143 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: that there was an attempt to cover it up by 144 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: using diesel for you, although he made a mistake by 145 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: trying to ignite it with a match, which diesel won't 146 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: do with such low level heat um and then he 147 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: pushed it into these bushes, going towards the water, again 148 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: trying to conceal the crime. So he either wanted more 149 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: time to commit other crimes, or more time to get away, 150 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: or just wanted to go on detectives completely. But this 151 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: prom scene, starting with Kathie and Rebecca, had such a 152 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: level of rage, Nancy, the triangulation could have killed them, 153 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Cutting their throats could have killed him. Setting them on 154 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: fire could have killed them. I mean, he used different 155 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: methods at the same scene, so that level of rate 156 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: should be really cure I'm I'm I'm looking at who 157 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: the victims are? Cheryl Uh and Dr Bethany with me. 158 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: Also Bill Thomas, the brother of Kathleen Thomas who was 159 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: a victim of the Colonial Parkway serial killer, and Lee 160 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: Egan Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. Let's look at 161 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: who the victims are? Okay, number one? Uh, Kathleen, just 162 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: twenty seven years old, was actually a graduate of the U. 163 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: S Naval Academy. You know how hard it is to 164 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: get into the Naval Academy. I mean for for over 165 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: a year, Cheryl, over a year, almost two years. Actually 166 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: the family that sits in front of us at church, 167 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: and there's several of them. I think there's five or 168 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: six of them. We're trying to get their oldest boy 169 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: into the Naval Academy and West Point anyway, I know 170 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: the Naval Academy was in there. Oh my stars, what 171 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: that family had to go through. You have to get 172 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: uh politicians involved, right, recommendations and oh my, all a's 173 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: to pass this test? Do that? Do this? Being eagles 174 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: scout the works. This girl had actually graduated from the 175 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: US Naval Academy. I mean she was not you know 176 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: what so often and this is wrong, but I've experienced 177 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: it and seen it happen to other murder victims families. 178 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: The rest of the world looks on them like, well, 179 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: what were you doing wrong? What it was your fault? 180 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: You're in the wrong place at the wrong time. You 181 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: were partying late, you were drunk, you were doing drugs, 182 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: you were this, you were that. No, this is a 183 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: Naval Academy graduate, Kathleen Thomas, twenty seven years old, with 184 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: her life in front of her, and her friend Rebecca 185 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: just twenty one. Now interesting, their bodies were found owned 186 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: Columbus Day weekend. Later on, we have the Colonial Parkway 187 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: killer striking again around Labor Day. What does that tell me? 188 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: That tells me he we know it's a man is 189 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: off work. That's significant. That means most likely he has 190 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: a job. See that means a lot to me because 191 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: I'm getting a profile of who the purp is. Dr 192 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. Well, not only does he have a job, 193 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: but there is some possibility that he has a family. 194 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: That's a scary part because we know a lot of 195 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: these serial killers. You're there this idea of the guy 196 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: in the black trench coat lurking in the shadows. But 197 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of these stories we covered, the perpetrator has 198 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: actually been a family man, middle aged, Deconeta, church of 199 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: family vehicles, you know, three kids and a dog. So 200 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: I think it's a mistake to just be killing me, Bethany, 201 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: I'm dying right, he ear because you know who that 202 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: sounds like. It just brings to mind bt K fine 203 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: torture and kill. Dennis Radar was a dog catcher with 204 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: a family with children. He held down this municipality job 205 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: for years while he was murdering people left and right. 206 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: Nobody suspected. That's what I'm thinking about here. Let's go 207 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: out to the lines joining me right now. Joe from Bocca. Hi, Joe, 208 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: what's your question? Uh? The question really is with Kathleen's background, 209 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: graduating from the Naval Academy, Uh, were there any signs 210 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: that she tried to fight anybody off to fight the killer? 211 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: Or good question? Hold on, just stay right there. I 212 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: know this. The autopsy report tells me that there are 213 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: road burns on both the young ladies necks and wrists. Interesting, 214 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: Why on the wrist were they trying to fight back us? 215 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: Like you're saying, Joe from Boca, Why would they have 216 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: rope burns on their wrists. There were signs of strangulation, 217 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: but their throats had been slashed. Diesel fuel poured over 218 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: their bodies, but the car wouldn't ignite. As Cheryl McCollum described, 219 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: their purses and money in the car, So it wasn't 220 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: a theft. Um it looks And answer to your question, Joe, 221 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:30,479 Speaker 1: that thomas Um, the Naval Academy grad struggled with her attacker. 222 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: A clump of hair was found between her fingers. Now 223 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: that clump of hair, whose is it? Is there anyway 224 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: through ancestry dot com or all the many other genealogy 225 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: websites can we track the guy? Uh? That technology wasn't 226 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: around when these first started happening. Both women fully clothed, 227 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: So no robbery, no sex assault, as Cheryl pointed out, 228 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: So what's your motive? Let's talk about did they fight 229 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: that with me? And? Bill? I hate to put such 230 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: blunt questions to you, but I want to know about 231 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: the Colonial Parkway killer, a serial killer who has claimed 232 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: multiple lives and it's never been solved steel to this day, 233 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: stalking Virginia. Bill, what do you know about whether your 234 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: sister and her friend tried to fight back. Well, from 235 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: what we're told by the FBI, Cathy definitely put up 236 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: a struggle. And one thing that's probably worth mentioning. Both 237 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: Kathy and Becky are are fairly tall, you know, five 238 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: seven or so, very athletic women in top physical condition, 239 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: and Kathy had taken martial arts training at the Naval Academy. 240 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: She definitely knew how to take care of herself. As 241 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I remember her jokingly with her 242 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: three older brothers and my parents showing us at Thanksgiving 243 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: one year all the things they learned in martial arts 244 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: training at the ACCA. To me, I would not despite 245 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: the fact that I probably outweigh her by fifty pounds 246 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: back then, it would be more now. I don't think 247 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: I actually would have wanted to take Kathy on in 248 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: a in a real fight, because she was very tough 249 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: and athletic and you know, toned and conditioned. And from 250 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: what we understand from her autopsy and talking to the experts, 251 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: she did put up a significant fight, and she had 252 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: tearing on the webbing of her hand where she probably 253 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: put her thumb underneath the rope that was put around 254 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: her neck, you know, trying to pull it away. Um, 255 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: so she clearly struggled, and from the cuts and bruises there, 256 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: you know there was some sort of struggle before he 257 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: assumed ultimately control over both women. M that's hard to 258 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: subdue to athletic, physically fit women, very difficult to do. 259 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: How did it happen? With me? Crime Online dot Com 260 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Lee Egan Do you think, Lee, does the 261 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: evidence suggest that he got into the car? Was the 262 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: car parked, was the car moving? Had they stopped to 263 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: pick somebody up hitchhiker by chance? What do we know, Lee, 264 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: about the mechanics of how he got to them? Well, 265 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: what I'm hearing, Nancy is that he walked This is 266 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: just a theory at this point, but he walked up, 267 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: and he may have been posing as a park ranger 268 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 1: or a law enforcement officer, because they found Kathleen's driver's 269 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: license out of her wallet and sitting there as if 270 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: maybe he came up and asked for her I d 271 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: And that's how that threw them off. And then I 272 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: also think that they found like some kind of hair 273 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: in her hand, as if she was pulling it. Yes, 274 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: that's what I just mentioned. That there was a clump 275 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: of hair in her hand Lea Egan, You're absolutely right? 276 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 1: Is that the purpse hair or her hair? It's not 277 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: her hair. I know they did DNA testing and it 278 00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: was not her hair. Um, so I'm assuming it's probably 279 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: going to be the perp. Got to be the killer's hair. Now, 280 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: that puts a whole another layer on it. To Sheryl McCollum, 281 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: you know who posed as a cop ted Bundy. That 282 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: was one of his things, no question, and very similar 283 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: to Bundy. He evolved. So Bundy went from strangulation to 284 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: bloodgeoning to you know, attacking people at night to snatching 285 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: the twelve year old girl off the street in broad daylight. 286 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: This killer seems to be doing the same thing. So 287 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: at Kathleen and Rebecca scene it's overkilled. At another scene 288 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: he's shooting people. So again, as he's evolving, as he's changing, 289 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: it tells you he's finding what works best for him. Yeah. 290 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: And Schryl McCollum, I mean I prosecuted uh many serial killers, 291 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: spree killers, and it helps. Yes, it does if the 292 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: m O motus o RUNDI method of operation is always 293 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,719 Speaker 1: the same. I know you remember the red rapist in 294 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: case I prosecuted in Atlanta, and he's always the same. 295 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: It was him, whether I had DNA or not. It 296 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: was so such a fingerprint crime, you knew it was him. Okay, 297 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: So if I could prove one, I could prove the other. 298 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: Based on m O alone here not so much. But 299 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: what unites them all is the Colonial Parkway, the fact 300 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: that it's always along this scenic drive in Virginia, that 301 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: it's always couples, they're always connected to or in a car, 302 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: It's always around a certain time of day, and now 303 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: we're identifying it's all very often around a holiday weekend. 304 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: All extremely significant into identifying who the serial killer is. 305 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: He still remains at large. Did you know about a 306 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: recent law that could leave your personal data exposed online 307 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: for anybody to find? 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He saw keiths car 326 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: there on the parkway, so he pulled over and he 327 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: stopped and the driver's side door was wide open, and 328 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: the glove box was open, and the keys were in 329 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: the car. And another thing was that the front seat 330 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: was pulled forward. My dad thought maybe he had just 331 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: went off with some friends and left his car there, 332 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: or either they had walked down to the beach. And 333 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: he said that, you know, that is not like him 334 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: to do something like that. I got a phone call 335 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: from my mother and she sounds kind of frantic, and 336 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: she said, um, Joy, you gotta meet me down at 337 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: the Parkway. UM Park rangers called and they said that 338 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: Keiths cars down there, and so I jumped in the 339 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 1: car and I'm going across the bridge and I get 340 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: this terrible feeling in my gut and I come around 341 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: the corner and I see this yellow caution tape blocking 342 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: the entrance to where his car was. They were all 343 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: walk in hand in hand, trying to find if there 344 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: were any bodies in the water. What was really strange 345 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: was some of Key's clothes, his underwear, his watch, his eyeglasses, 346 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: Cassandra's wallet, and a brawl and one shoe. They weren't 347 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: in there when my dad stopped the first time. When 348 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: he would have that would have freaked him out. That's 349 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: something he even noticed. That is so bizarre. The story 350 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: that Keith called sister Joyce call Canada described describing the 351 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: day her brother case car was found. That is chilling. 352 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: The way the car was left to Bill Thomas. What 353 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: does she mean by the fact that those items, including 354 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: the wallet, the watch, the girls underwear, and some of 355 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: her clothing, were not in the car the first time 356 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: he looked at it. Were those items later placed in 357 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the car? Well? What Joyce's describing as a situation where 358 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: her father who since passed away. He's Richard Call, which 359 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: is what Keith is. Also Richard goes by Keith his 360 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: middle name UM. Mr Call is on his way to 361 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: work at the Bush Brewery. He normally drives the Colonial Parkway. 362 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:21,719 Speaker 1: On the way, he notices Keith's very distinctive Toyota Celica 363 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: park on this little pull off next to the parkway. 364 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 1: It's it's completely impossible to miss. He. Mr Call pulls 365 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: over and notices the doors somewhat ajar and that Keith's 366 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: car is there, but there's there's no one inside. He 367 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: according to Mr Call, he stopped, he called out for them, 368 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: looked around, didn't see anything out of the ordinary, and 369 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: then ultimately, you know, kind of gets it into his head, well, 370 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, kids will be kids. They must have gone 371 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: off with some other friends. So he heads off. This 372 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: is early morning. The following morning, he heads off to work, 373 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: but he swears that nothing seemed out of the ordinary 374 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: and that he looked inside the car. Now a couple 375 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: of hours later, when National Park Service rangers UM are 376 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: investigating the scene and realizing they're dealing with a missing 377 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: person's case, this couple are nowhere to be found. They 378 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: say that there are there's the clothing that Joyce described, 379 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: and Mr Call was troubled by this to his death, 380 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: saying he never would have continued on to work had 381 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: he seen those items of clothing and the shoes and 382 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: so on. So there's this disconnect um. Some of the 383 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,479 Speaker 1: reporting recently seems to have highlighted the possibility that National 384 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 1: Park Service rangers may have removed the clothing and other 385 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: items from the car in an attempt to figure out 386 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: whose car was abandoned there on the parkway, and then 387 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: realizing that they were now dealing with a missing person's 388 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: k The reporting now is that the chagrined National Park 389 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: Service rangers went back and then recontaminated the recontaminated the 390 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: crime scene a second time by going back and placing 391 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: the articles of clothing back inside the car. Okay, that 392 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: sounds fantastical that they would take the items out and 393 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: then go back and put them back in. I'll tell 394 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: you where it takes my mind, Cheryl McCollum, wrong or 395 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: right in light of what Bill Thomas told me, Kathleen 396 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: Thomas's brother, Uh wait, maybe it was Lee that told 397 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: me that her Kathleen's driver's license was out as if 398 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: she had taken it out of her wallet. When a 399 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: cop pulls you over and says, um license registration, you 400 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: take out your driver's license, and now we see movement 401 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: of crime scene evidence within the car, and then it's 402 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: mysteriously back in the car. It my mind races to 403 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: the question, is that a part range Absolutely several of 404 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: the scenes and they see the driver's side window was 405 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: rolled down, and a couple of scenes the glove boxes 406 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,920 Speaker 1: open as though someone is getting their registration, their insurance, 407 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: and their driver's license. Again, the wallets were open. So 408 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: it does lead you to think that that's another reason 409 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: how you can easily get somebody out of the car 410 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: if you are approached by police officer that says step out. 411 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: You've got one person out of the car easily, and 412 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: if you hand up that person or band them, then 413 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: it's easy to go get the second person. Bill, I 414 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: want to go back if you don't mind to your 415 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: sister Kathleen. Were both her and her friend Rebecca's bodies 416 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: in the vehicle. They were. They're the only case of 417 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: the four where the bodies are found with the vehicle 418 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: Cathy is in the way back as we used to 419 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: call it, the hatchback area of their Honda Civics. So 420 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: you know, those were pretty small cars. And Becky's body 421 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: was on the diagonal in the back seat with their 422 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: feet extending towards the passenger door. Um And as I mentioned, 423 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: both of these women are are are pretty tall. We're 424 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: not talking about you know, five ft tall und women 425 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,199 Speaker 1: were talking, you know, so just the idea of you know, 426 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: squeezing Cathy into that hatchback area and then Becky into 427 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: the back seat. They think the murders themselves took place 428 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: outside the car and then the bodies were placed inside 429 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: the car before um he moved the car. And in 430 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: all of the examples they think that there's movement of 431 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: cars post mortem, that the um, the killer is is 432 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: moving the cars and maybe even staging the cars to 433 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: create certain impressions. Well, another thing that tells me to 434 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall, l a psychoanalyst, is the killer is 435 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: not afraid of getting caught because they're taking a lot 436 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: of time. As I always and the John beIN a 437 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: Ramsey murder case, somebody did not mind kick him back 438 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: inside the Ramsey house and writing what was it? A 439 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: three page ransom note plus a practice note. I may 440 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: not worried at all if I broke into somebody's house, 441 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: I'd be a nervous wreck, thinking they're gonna walk in 442 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: at any moment. Not the John bin a Ramsey killer, 443 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: and not the colonial parkway killer. They've got time to 444 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: get the people, pull the people over, get them out 445 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 1: of the car. In this case, put the two women 446 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: back in the car. Move the car. They're not worried 447 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: somebody's going to spot them. Why what does that tell you, Bethany, 448 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: But Nancy, it starts, uh, prior to that, with the 449 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: procurement of park ranger uniform. I mean this, this is 450 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: ritualized and time consuming from the get go. This person 451 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: has to go get a uniform. I mean that takes time. 452 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: Then they have to troll the parkway finding the right 453 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: vic unless they already have one, unless they already have 454 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: a uniform. Think about it. That's actually a really good point. 455 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: Or in terms of time consuming. They became a park 456 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: ranger because the fantasy of killing was already in their mind. 457 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the seeds of this were fomented over many 458 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: years of the perpetrator's life, and they finally got the 459 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: courage to do it. And I think that whoever did 460 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: this loved toying with the victims. That the analogy that 461 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: comes to my mind is a cat with a mouse. 462 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: You know, if you've ever seen a cat with a mouse, 463 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, they flip the mouse this way, they flip 464 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: the mouse that way. There's something cool and predatory and 465 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: kind of playful about the interaction with the mouse. And 466 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: it seems, especially with Kathy and Becky, that you know, 467 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: there are the rope burns around the neck, then around 468 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: the wrist, and then there's the slash in the throat, 469 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: which also suggests to your point that this perpetrator took 470 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: his time with them. He didn't just shoot them or 471 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: slash their throats, but there were multiple modalities of aggression 472 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: against these young women. Joe is popping back up again. Joe, 473 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: you've heard the story of Keith and his dad and 474 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: the girlfriend. I know you have an opinion. What's your question? 475 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: When they were stopped, the person who stopped them didn't 476 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: have to be in uniform, because there are always police 477 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: out there. I saw one the other day in an 478 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: unmarked car, having stopped someone on the saw Grass Highway 479 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: near where I lived, and uh uh so a uniform 480 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: wasn't even necessary, and likely when she reached out to 481 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: give the person that stopped her her license and so 482 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: on and insurance, that's when he likely put her in 483 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: hand up or slipped on a handcuff, not a metal necessarily, 484 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: but a rope kind of handcuff. And that's my opinion 485 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: that they were lost after that, you know they yeah, 486 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: I mean, once that happened, it was over, you know, 487 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:23,479 Speaker 1: listening to Joe's theory Cheryl Bethany and Bill Thomas, and 488 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm hung up on all the indicators that this person 489 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,479 Speaker 1: either was or was impersonating a cop or a park ranger. 490 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: The driver's license out, they're getting them out of the car, 491 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: the um wallets open, the glove compartment open now typically, 492 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: and that would make me think that it was a theft, 493 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: but no money was taken, So all of that goes 494 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: towards the people the victims quote cooperating with a park 495 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: ranger or a cop. Is there anything else to suggest 496 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: that scenario. When you're a ranger, you have a large 497 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: area that is all of yours, and you basically worked 498 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: alone this person and that you know, thirty mile area 499 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: could virtually work undetected by anybody, even as supervisor. And 500 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: I came home with Danny, which was her boyfriend's brother. 501 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: He wouldn't help move in with them because they were young, 502 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: and um, I think with the rent they were living 503 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: with his sister or his older sister. And then she 504 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: moved out, so the brother was going to move into 505 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: help and Clint, her boyfriend had to work that night. So, um, 506 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: it was labor day weekend and she wouldn't come see 507 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: your family, and since he was coming to a meal, yes, 508 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: she said, I'll ride with you. And I think he 509 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: dropped her off at mom and Dad's and he went 510 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: to his house and got his stuff, gathered his stuff, 511 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: so it was really late when they left, and um, 512 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: Mom of course locked her door and told her, you know, 513 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: don't unlock your door. She always did that, lock their doors. 514 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: And when she called me, she said, Anna never made 515 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: at home. She called me the next day she said 516 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: she didn't make it home. And you know, that in 517 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: itself set a panic, you know, with the family, because 518 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: we knew that wasn't um the norm for her. Um. 519 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: She was supposed to call when she got back and 520 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't really remember a lot of the details. It 521 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: was a lot of phone conversations, a lot of looking. 522 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: We we um William and I and my dad, my 523 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: other sister. We all did searches in the woods and 524 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: family members. You are hearing Rosanna Sevitti giving details about 525 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: the last time her family saw her sister, Anna Annie 526 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: Marie Phelps. Now, this is what I know about Annie 527 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: Marie Phelps, just eighteen years old. She and her boyfriend 528 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: Daniel Lower, who was twenty one, were found in New 529 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: Kent County. They were discovered by hunters out in the 530 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: woods near a rest area along the interstate I believe 531 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: it's Interstate sixty four and that runs between Richmond and Williamsburg. Now, 532 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: Anne Marie had been dating Lowers, a brother at the 533 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: time they went missing. It was a Labor Day weekend 534 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 1: and they vanished on their way to Virginia Beach. Their 535 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: bodies were not discovered for a period of time. They 536 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: were off a logging road about a quarter of a 537 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: mile away from Courthouse Road off four. There was a 538 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: rest stop there and at the rest stop, lours Chevy 539 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: Nova had been found heading in the wrong direction away 540 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: from Virginia beach where they were headed. At least one 541 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: of the bodies, very decomposed, appears to have suffered wounds 542 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: from a knife. Okay, Cheryl the Column, director of the 543 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: Cold Case Research Institute, what does this tell you? It 544 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: tells me again this killer is evolved in Nancy. If 545 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: you go back to April tent with Keith and Cassandra, 546 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: they were never found. That means they were transported somewhere 547 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: else in hidden better than the first two. When you 548 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: get to Anna, Marine and Daniel again, this killer is 549 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: going to make sure his tracks are covered. He is 550 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: now involved to the point not only am I going 551 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: to transport you, I'll use your car to do it. 552 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: And they were found, but they weren't found for six weeks. 553 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: And at that point, um, there's some evidence they were stabbed, 554 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,399 Speaker 1: but you know a lot of the evidence were gone. Yeah, 555 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: the evidence is gone after a period of time. To 556 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: Bill Thomas, brother of Colonial Parkway serial killer victim Kathleen Thomas, 557 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: what do you make of Anne Marie's death. Well, there's 558 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: a couple of things that are notable. This is the 559 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: only one of the four where it takes place exclusively 560 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,839 Speaker 1: on the land. All of the other murders, including the 561 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 1: second murder of David Nobling and Robin Edwards Um. They 562 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: all take place right next to the water, and there's 563 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: an attempt um in in a couple of those examples 564 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: to place the bodies in the water. In this example, 565 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,879 Speaker 1: the fourth example with Anna Marie and Daniel Um, they 566 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,640 Speaker 1: go missing along this wooded stretch of highway on six 567 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: four and are found just a couple of miles away 568 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: in the woods by hunters. And the crime scene seems different, 569 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of strong similarities again with 570 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 1: the the odd movement of the car from one side 571 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: of sixty four. Their rest stops on both sides of 572 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 1: the highway and you can get to from one to 573 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: the other by walking. But you know, we have this 574 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: odd to tail where the car is found. You know, 575 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: it's been swung around on the highway and then headed 576 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: back in the opposite direction of travel. There there seems 577 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: to be just this um effort made to um change 578 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: up how law enforcement investigators would perceive things. And you know, 579 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: one odd detail regarding uh Anna and Daniels Um crime scene. 580 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: His Chevy Nova is found in the opposite direction of 581 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,720 Speaker 1: travel with a roach clip very prominently placed on the window, 582 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: and some law enforcement investigators have said to me that 583 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: that felt like a taunt, that this was something that 584 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: the killer did to just kind of literally put that 585 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: in their face as they were examining the Chevy Nova. 586 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: What do we know, Cheryl McComb about potential DNA testing 587 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 1: by the FBI testing genetic testing that could not have 588 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: been done at the time. Well, they're due and in 589 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: that testing, which is they're trying to get DNA off 590 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: the clothing of the victims, and then with that DNA 591 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: they will trying to do Paara bond to try to 592 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: get a composite of this person as well as the 593 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 1: ancestry DNA on the different side. So they're going to 594 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: try to develop all of that to see if we 595 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,879 Speaker 1: can get an idea of this person. You know, I'm 596 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: thinking about the m O S. I'm thinking about the location. 597 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: How do you connect the locations and what does it 598 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: say to you, Sheryl McCollum where the people are killed. 599 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to being a ranger for a minute, 600 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: and that possibility you've basically worked alone. This person could 601 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: virtually work undetected by anybody. So they had places they 602 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: can hide. They had places they could sit and watch. 603 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: So if you've got your truck range of trucks parked 604 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: up above, and you're watching people pulling into this lover's lane, 605 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,439 Speaker 1: it would be easy for you to wait and look 606 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,439 Speaker 1: down the road. You could see fifteen miles down the road. 607 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: You know nobody else is coming. So if you flew 608 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: down at that point to attack, you know you've got 609 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 1: at least twenty minutes before another person could possibly get 610 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: to you. I mean, it's almost an unbelievable watch zones 611 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: for a killer. You know, the family of Keith Call 612 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: has been quoted that they feel completely forgotten, that they 613 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: never hear from law enforcement. They don't even know if 614 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: anyone is working to solve the case. That this was 615 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: keith first date with Cassandra Halley. When they fell victim 616 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: to the Colonial Parkway killer, their bodies were never found. 617 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: They say that even now they still have some kind 618 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: of hope after all this time, that they know inside 619 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: of their mind that he's not coming home, but that 620 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: they keep hoping, and that they see on TV and 621 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: reading the news where other cases are opened, Why not there? 622 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: Why not their case? Keith's case? So I'm concerned about 623 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: the effect this is having on the justice system when 624 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: victims feel they're totally left out, that they have no 625 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: idea what's going on with their case. To Bill Thomas, 626 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: Kathleen Thomas's brother, what about it, Bill, Well, this is 627 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: probably the hardest thing of all. You know, we've over 628 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 1: the last eight years, since I got more heavily involved 629 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,319 Speaker 1: in the case, we've gotten very close as as a 630 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: group of eight families. Um. But I remember my father, 631 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: who's still with us, saying back in two thousand ten that, 632 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: as difficult as our situation might be, he said, very 633 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: quietly from the backseat of my car while we were 634 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: driving back from meeting with the FBI, said, at least 635 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,439 Speaker 1: we know what happened to Kathy. Um. I actually think 636 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: the missing person's aspect of the call Haley case is actually, 637 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: in my opinion, and thirty one years into this now 638 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: is actually a greater heartbreak, because there's always the thought 639 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: in the minds of family members that maybe someday, somehow, 640 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,400 Speaker 1: Keith and Cassandra are going to walk back through that door. 641 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: And I think you're almost better off knowing as opposed 642 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: to not knowing. What about two more recent murders up 643 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: to Blackburg College students. I'm talking about UM students Heidi 644 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 1: Childs and David melt Source. Their bodies were found being 645 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: shot dead, and many people believe that there is connection 646 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: to the Colonial Parkway killer. UM it's UM. They were 647 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 1: found at Caldwell Fields, near the Jefferson National Forest property. 648 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: That's about twelve miles a miles from Virginia Tech. Now 649 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: it's a common area for hikers to go to Harlee 650 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: any sales service. We don't know exactly how many shots 651 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,360 Speaker 1: were fired, but we do know there is taught that 652 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 1: these more recent murders could be connected to the Colonial 653 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: Parkway killings. That would mean the killer is back in action. 654 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: Response Bill. It is possible that the child's Metzler murder 655 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: could be related, and and there are other murders of 656 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,240 Speaker 1: couples and individuals that could be related to the Colonial 657 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: Parkway murders. There are things about the Child's Metzler case 658 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,240 Speaker 1: that that do remind me of the Colonial Parkway murders. 659 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: It's probably also worth noting I don't remember which set 660 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: of parents it is. It's not critical, but one of 661 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: their parents is an investigator for the Virginia State Police. UM. Again, 662 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: I don't know that that's uh, you know, pertinent, um. 663 00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of things about the circumstances 664 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: of of how Heidi and David were killed that do 665 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: remind people of the Colonial Park Grand murders. Do you 666 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: make of it? Dr Bethany Marshall, you're the psychoanalysts. Well, 667 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 1: it's so interesting to me that these are all young people, educated, 668 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: in the prime of their life, their couples. Cheryl McCollum 669 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: talked about a literal watch zone where this perpetrator could 670 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: watch down onto lover's lane, And I think about all 671 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: the serial murders we've covered where they target family constellations 672 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,720 Speaker 1: of some sort like B t K. He targeted mothers 673 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:46,359 Speaker 1: and young children as well as entire families with young children, UM, pedophiles. 674 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: It's a different type of crime, but they target entire families. 675 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: This perpetrator targeted couples in the prime of their life. 676 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,160 Speaker 1: So what is that about? Is it, as you said earlier, 677 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: a type of couple envy? Is there something about the 678 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:06,320 Speaker 1: emerging sexuality between a young couple? Um, and this serial 679 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: killer is also a voyeur, so there was a watching 680 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: component to all of this, you know, is there the 681 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: m also bringing the couple under his control. One couple 682 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: was found on the bank of a river, one was 683 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: stuffed back into their car. Did he want to control 684 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: them in some fashion, like I said earlier, like a 685 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,800 Speaker 1: cat with a mouse, you know, for minutes or hours 686 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,439 Speaker 1: on end until he finally killed them. But I think 687 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: there's something about the interplay between two young people who 688 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: possibly have some sexual relationship with each other that this 689 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: perpetrator wanted to insert himself into that dynamic, either by 690 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: watching it, controlling it, or quite possibly destroying it so 691 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 1: that they could not enjoy what the couple had created 692 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: for themselves. You know, another issue, Cheryl mccollumna, I want 693 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: to revisit that it is someone within the range of 694 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: divis vision within the police department or sheriff's department, or 695 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 1: an impersonator. What can you tell me how do you 696 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: connect these cases together under that scenario? Again, I think 697 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: you've got somebody that takes great time. They're not in 698 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: a hurry, they're not worried about getting caught. They may 699 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 1: even leave and come back. Um they stage the crime scene. 700 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 1: So again there's a lot of thought, there's a lot 701 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: of time, and they're not worried about being scene. So 702 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,040 Speaker 1: let's say they do have a ranger of trucks and 703 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: they're in uniform, or they have a police car. If 704 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: somebody were to see them, people drive right past that 705 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 1: thinking whatever the situation is being handled so that person 706 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: doesn't have to worry about. And again, if they're a ranger, 707 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: if anybody does make a call, is going to them anyway. 708 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: So it's it's a great set up if that's what's 709 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,920 Speaker 1: happening here. And you know, Nancy, now you know the 710 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,919 Speaker 1: Coleo Parkway. You've got before crime scene, you've got three 711 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: secondary scene, and you've got one secondary scene that was 712 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: never discovered. So he leaves have gone back to what 713 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,239 Speaker 1: he goes comfortable with and feels like, hey, I don't 714 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,320 Speaker 1: have to hide it anymore. But we do know scial 715 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,960 Speaker 1: killers do go dormant for a period of time, So 716 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: it could very well be right now there may be 717 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,239 Speaker 1: a break in the Colonial Parkway serial killer case. New 718 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: DNA testing could possibly crack the murders. Relatives of Kathy 719 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: Thomas are among those confident testing can lead to a 720 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,399 Speaker 1: break in the murder case. What about it, Bill, Well, 721 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: we're hopeful, you know, we recognize that, UM, if if 722 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,160 Speaker 1: we have evidence. We've been urging the FBI and the 723 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: Virginia State Police to move forward, you know, with additional 724 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: testing and and you know we have faith in law enforcement. 725 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: But we it's been slow. It's been a slogo and 726 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: I think I can say that at thirty one years UM. 727 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: But we're hoping that with all of the new advancements 728 00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: in technology, we can finally get some results with some 729 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: new approaches. If you have any information, whether you think 730 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: it valuable or not, please call eight zero four six 731 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: seven four two thousand. That's the Virginia State Patrol eight 732 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 1: zero four six seven four two thousand. Nancy Grace Crime 733 00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:27,400 Speaker 1: Stories signing off, goodbye friend. Did you know a recent 734 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody 735 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you 736 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: know the internet has created a dangerous new world. It's 737 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: time you take back the power by using a new 738 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 1: website called truth Finder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket, 739 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: received a lean from the I R S? Did you 740 00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:52,680 Speaker 1: forget about embarrassing social media profile? That info may already 741 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: be online. Truth Finder can help you find it. Truth 742 00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: Finder search as millions of public records, assembling the at 743 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: it together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, so 744 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,040 Speaker 1: you can also look up those close to you and 745 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,919 Speaker 1: make sure they're not hiding something. Visit truth finder dot 746 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,520 Speaker 1: com slash nancy, enter your own name get started,