1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Everybody. It's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: And we continue with part two of our conversation with 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Tim Seema right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. 4 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Why can't we do this in every city? Bro? 5 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: You know, I think you said in an earlier, earlier 6 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 2: podcast you talked about you know it takes an army 7 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: of normal folks. You know that the thought itself doesn't 8 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: do it. I mentioned earlier, I'm a person of faith. 9 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 2: I would I would say, you know, probably more forcefully 10 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: that if you're a Christian in business, it actually doesn't 11 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 2: matter whether you're in business or not. But if you're 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: a Christian, this this isn't an op. It's an obligation. 13 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: If you have a gift, if you have resources, if 14 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: you have a platform, that's what you're here for. You're 15 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 2: called to serve this. This is not an option. And 16 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 2: you know, I happen to be a real estate guy. 17 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: You're a coach and a business person owning a lumber 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: yard and so on. But there are firemen out there, 19 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 2: there are teachers out there, There are obviously policemen out there, 20 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 2: there are janners out there. All of us, you know, 21 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 2: have an ability to improve the lives of other people. 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 2: And and as a believer, I would say it's not 23 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: an opportunity, it's it's not only an opportunity, it's an obligation. 24 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 2: That's what we're here for. We're called to serve. 25 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: And that's a far cry from belief like me or 26 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: you're going to Hell. Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I think, 27 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: and I'm a Christian too, I think we Christian's done 28 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: ourselves at a service over many years with an unfortunate 29 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: narrative that is, believe like me, or you're doomed. Believe 30 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: like me, you're doomed. And I love hearing what you're 31 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: saying because there's people listening that aren't Christians and are 32 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: Jewish and agnostic or Muslim or Hindu, and I don't 33 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: want them to think that because we're Christians, we don't 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: invite them to the same table we eat at. Unfortunately, 35 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: we've done a disservice because there's this narrative out there 36 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: that says, if I'm a man of faith, you think 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: of me, you either think like me or you're doomed. 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: And you're right. The the whole point behind Christianity is 39 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: Christ came to serve us, and if we're going to 40 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: be christ Like, we're called to serve others. 41 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not going to lead with judgment. 42 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: It's not what it's about. 43 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 2: That's not what it's about. We talked earlier about you know, 44 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: some of the things the public sector does haven't been 45 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: the most effective and efficient. Well, I would say the 46 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 2: same thing about churches in the faith community. 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I would, which I think is healthy to say 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: on this forum, so that those are listening to us 49 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: that aren't Christians don't be put off by our faith. 50 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: All we're saying is we're called to serve, and we 51 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: invite anybody of any faith to serve with us. 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: That's exactly that's exactly right. 53 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: Why don't you get emotional when I talk about the kids? 54 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just a it's it's such a 55 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: a a rich feeling to know that you're making a difference. 56 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: And I'm you know, I'm a people call me a 57 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: hard ass business guy, but deep down, I'm I'm a 58 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: I'm a softie. And and seeing the impacts where the 59 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: rubber hits the road, I think, yeah, you know, I 60 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: go to sleep, you know, at night, knowing that you know, 61 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: I'm trying to do just a little bit more each 62 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: day to to try to improve the lives of others. 63 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: And uh and what a what a neat opportunity for 64 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: me that you know that I've been given so much 65 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: and so to be able to use some of that 66 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 2: for the benefit of others is a gift. I'll say 67 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 2: another thing that there is a cost to this work. 68 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: I mean affordable housing. If you stack up. If somebody 69 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 2: said I'm going to develop an affordable housing apartment community 70 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,840 Speaker 2: or I'm going to develop a market rate apartment community. 71 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 2: If you if you stack those two together, you would 72 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: and you did a financial analysis, you would never build 73 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: affordable housing because you take three times the risk and 74 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: you make a for action of the upside. So that's 75 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: why there's so many more market rate apartments getting built 76 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: and not affordable housing. But I like to say God 77 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: keeps scoring differently than we do. You know, he has 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: a different scorecard. And uh, you know, how much money 79 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 2: do you really need? 80 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: You know? Well, there's also what I said early. I mean, 81 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: honestly I believe this. There's a pragmatic side to this 82 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: that we better get involved in this. We better get 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 1: involved in this, because what's it looked like forty or 84 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: fifty years from now. If we continue to gentrify and 85 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,919 Speaker 1: push people, you're going to run out of places to 86 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: push people eventually. So, like you said, pay me now, 87 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: pay me later. I think it's an investment now in 88 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: our grandchildren's future. 89 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And and you know what's interesting is 90 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: you know, these people that are getting displaced move further 91 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: and further away from their jobs. 92 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: Which is again the cycle. 93 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: It's the site and transportation options, aren't is their costs 94 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: and everything else and traffic and everything else that's generated 95 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: from that. So I mean they're they're you know there. 96 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: I like to say, affordable housing is not a poor 97 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: people problem, it's a quality of our community problem. I mean, 98 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: our whole community has a vested interest. Businesses, companies have 99 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 2: a vested interest in making. 100 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: Someboder's got to buy your goods and services. 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 2: That's right. And if you've got team members that have 102 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 2: to drive an hour and a half to get to 103 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: work every day, well, what kind of quality of life 104 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: is that? And so you know, it's it's it speaks 105 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 2: to the quality of the community to the degree they 106 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: care about affordable housing in my view, But affordable housing 107 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: also shouldn't be a place where people move in, they 108 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 2: get a diskind of rent, and they stay there for 109 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: the next thirty years. It really should be a stopping 110 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: point on an upward mobility. 111 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 1: Which again happens when you cross in a. 112 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: Mixed income Yeah. 113 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: When you provide mixed income places, you provide children a healthy, 114 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: safe place to learn, and you quit making these families transient, 115 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: then you have as for it not to be a 116 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: final point, but just a lift off spot. 117 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And and I'll tell you, I, you know, 118 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: my life has been changed as a result of this. 119 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: Maybe that's in part why I get emotional too. I 120 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 2: you know, this is not just serving others. They've changed, 121 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: you know, I have your perception of the world's changed, 122 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: haven't it completely completely? The color of my friends have changed. 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm locking arms with people that I, you know, 124 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: didn't you know, even know a year or two or 125 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: three ago. And and you know, we don't agree on 126 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 2: every topic. And if we talk politics, we'd probably disagree, 127 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 2: but there's a lot of things we agree on. And 128 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: those are the areas that we. 129 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: Yeah interesting that politics and whether or not you watch 130 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: Fox or CNN, and where or how or if you 131 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: worship starts really becoming less and less important when we 132 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: get out of those apartments and we just work for 133 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: one another's humanity. 134 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. 135 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: And is it not the most rewarding experience that you 136 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: could you could have ever met. You get a thousand 137 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: times more out of it for your own self than 138 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: you put in it. 139 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: Even we started this conversation with a young man, Stip 140 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: that that I work with. You know, Stip in part 141 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: is working with us because we're walking the talk. We're 142 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: building affordable housing, and he's a young guy that cares 143 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: about that kind of stuff. He could go to work anywhere, 144 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: but he's choosing to work and stay at our company. 145 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 2: And I've got a bunch of other folks. You know, 146 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: those are indirect benefits where when you start doing some 147 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: of the stuff that we're talking about, there's no question 148 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: that our company has benefited. Even though we may not 149 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 2: be making money in the affordable housing space, we benefit 150 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 2: in other ways that that never would have expected. The culture, 151 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: the company culture is I'd stack our culture against any 152 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: other real estate company out there. We had great relationships 153 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: with the elected officials and the city of Charlotte, and 154 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: then we start doing affordable housing and the respect that 155 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: we get because they know that we're we're doing it. 156 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: We don't have to you know, the the reach, the 157 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: the you know, the ability to sit down with some 158 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: of these folks and talk about policy issues that matter. 159 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: It's it's again, it breaks down barriers. 160 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: It breaks down barriers. It's it's fantasic. And then you know, 161 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: they come in and say, hey, you know, the elected 162 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 2: officials says, I think you need to do affordable housing 163 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 2: in this development, and we say we can't. And here's 164 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: why we we We they know if we could, we would. 165 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: And so I mean maybe maybe that's also a precursor 166 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: to some of those guys in the public sector saying, well, 167 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: let's change that designation of that area. Let's make it 168 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: where you can do it. Isn't that an interesting thought. 169 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: Well, that's why I tell that that qualified Census track, 170 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: that's QCT, QCT. If there are politicians listening, change change it, 171 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: We'll build more. That's exactly right, That's exactly right. So 172 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: I mean it takes you know, a conversation like this 173 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: to reach somebody that says, you know, I can do 174 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 2: something about that and it could and should be changed, 175 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: but you know, like you said, it's a policy that's 176 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 2: fifty years old, and there's a lot of inertia in 177 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 2: the government, so it's hard to make some of those changes. 178 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So after six years, Tim, six years, right, 179 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, No more, six five? 180 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 2: Yes, we started Freedom communes. 181 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, seven years. You know, I realize you're managing and 182 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,599 Speaker 1: spending a lot of time on getting projects done and 183 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: the financial side of it and dealing with the government, 184 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: getting tax credits and all. But along the way, has 185 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: there been kind of like one of your favorite interactions 186 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: and stories that's kind of imprinted you as you've gone 187 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: through this process. 188 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 2: That's a great question, and you're right. We just had 189 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: a board retreat for Freedom Communities this last weekend, and 190 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: I've told our staff how jealous I was because they're 191 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 2: the tip of the spear and they get to have 192 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 2: all these great interactions with people. And I said, so 193 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: every board meeting, every time we're together, I want you 194 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: to come up with some of your favorite stories so 195 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: we get to be inspired by those. But I was 196 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: doing a little piece. One story comes to mind. I 197 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: was doing a little piece there was a freelance journalist 198 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: that had heard about this and the Freedom Communities and 199 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 2: affordable housing, and so she called to ask if she 200 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: could do a little three minute news thing for one 201 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 2: of the local news channels, and we said sure, and 202 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 2: so Hannah, the executive director of Freedom and myself met 203 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: her and she filmed Hannah first, and then she she 204 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: filmed me. And between the two of those little segments, 205 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: there was an African American lady that was walking by 206 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: asked her what she was doing and and uh, they said, 207 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: we're doing a little piece for the news. And the 208 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: lady said, well, I'd like to be on it. And 209 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: you know, you don't really know what they're going to say. 210 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 2: And and I had not met this lady at the time, 211 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 2: and so the journalist put her on the camera and 212 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: asked her, you know, so how long have you been 213 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: in this affordable housing development? And she started answer the 214 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: questions and well, what do you think about it? And 215 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: she went on to say kind of gave her testimony 216 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 2: that I mean, it's changed her life. She you know, 217 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: didn't have stable housing before and now she's got it. 218 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 2: She lives with a couple of her kids and and 219 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 2: she uh and and we had named the street that 220 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 2: enters the development as Blessing Lane, and she said, that's 221 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: the deal, Blessing Lane. This is a blessing to me. 222 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: And it was another one of those. So so this 223 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 2: journalist was telling me about that when she was filming me, 224 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: and then this lady happened to be walking by, and 225 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 2: so she said, well, here she is right now, and 226 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 2: she introduced me and kind of caught it on camera. 227 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 2: And I teared up again when I talked to this lady, 228 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 2: but she she was. She talked about how her life 229 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 2: had been changed with just the opportunity to get this 230 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: stable roof, keep her kids in school, and the whole 231 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 2: works and so and that's what I said, that's what 232 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 2: it's all about. I mean, if you're able to do 233 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: it one family at a time and just get up 234 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: every morning saying, let's let's impact one family. And like 235 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: you said, you did the math, and it could be 236 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 2: thousands of people so far, but and that. 237 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: One interaction there is enough fuel for another five years 238 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: of work. 239 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 240 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: I know. It is. 241 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: It's like getting a birdie on the eighteenth hole when 242 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 2: you're playing golf, Like. 243 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: You can shoot a ninety seven. Yeah, but that thing 244 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: is going to keep you going coming. 245 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: Back the next day, and that's that's exactly right. So 246 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 2: and some days it's it's pretty hard, and there's lots 247 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: of challenges and frustrations, but but you hear those stories 248 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 2: and it makes you come back, makes you get up 249 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: in the morning. And I'm privileged to still have the 250 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: energy level to do it. I hope the Good Lord 251 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: gives me the energy for a number of years. 252 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: Yet it's beautiful, you know, Tim, As I hear all 253 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: of the numbers of units and everything else. You've used 254 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: the term you can't bore the ocean a couple of times, 255 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: and I'd never heard that term before, and I love it. 256 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna steal it from you. But there there's also, 257 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, there's mom and pop shops out there who 258 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: buy homes and fix them up, who rent maybe fifteen 259 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: different different properties. And the truth is, you don't have 260 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: to be a big developer to do affordable housing. Right. 261 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: I think you learned. I think I read that you 262 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: learned in Atlanta that you know you can you can 263 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: also start small and do this kind of work. You 264 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: want to speak to that a little bit. 265 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that that's exactly. 266 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: Encourage people that anybody can really do this. 267 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that, and I think I may 268 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: have mentioned it earlier. That's one of the mistakes we 269 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: made is you start getting into the work and the 270 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 2: need is so great that you start taking on more 271 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 2: than you know then you can handle. Uh. And you know, 272 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: the the whole organization almost folded as a direct result 273 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: of that because we you know, we're trying to take 274 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 2: on too much stuff. I would encourage you just the opposite. 275 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 2: Start small. And there are some people that form these 276 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: these land trusts and they'll they'll raise a few bucks 277 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 2: and they'll buy a house. The land trust will own 278 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: a house and they'll discount the rent and they'll keep 279 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: that house affordable, you know, for the long term, and 280 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: then they'll go raise some funds and buy a second house. 281 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: You don't have to be building one hundred and eighty 282 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 2: unit apartment communities to start with. You can you can 283 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 2: start at a at a much more molecular level. I 284 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: guess to do this, but you know, it was kind 285 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: of interesting. One of the first staff members we hired 286 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: is a still with US, Cynthia Scott. She's African American 287 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: lady just a beautiful person, great great story, grew up 288 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: in poverty in Detroit, and she's now in Charlotte and 289 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: interviewing for a job to be one of these life 290 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 2: coaches to work with these moms. And yeah, and so 291 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: I'm I'm talking to Cynthia. I'm meeting her for the 292 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: first time, and she's just a delightful person. And uh, 293 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: I said, Cynthia, I gotta tell you, I don't know 294 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: what the heck I'm doing with this, you know, uh, 295 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 2: And you know, but you do you do? I mean, 296 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: you've lived it. You've you've got the lived experience that 297 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 2: you went through poverty, and you're married, you got what 298 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 2: I think, three kids. You're in Charlotte, and you want to, 299 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: you know, make a difference. How did you do it? 300 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 2: How do we do it? How can we generational poverty 301 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: in West Charlotte? And she said, Tim, I don't know, 302 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: She said, all I can tell you is one family 303 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: at a time, you know, one family at a time, 304 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: one person at a time, one family at a time. 305 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: And so so it's helpful for me to start with 306 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: one family at a time, just thinking about how do 307 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: you change a community one family at a time. 308 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: We interviewed a guy named Rodney Smith who cut grass, 309 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: and he was driving down the street. He's from Bermuda, 310 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: didn't have a green card. He was here on a 311 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: student visa and saw an old man struggling to cut 312 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: his grass and just got out of his car and 313 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: went up to him and said, please let me finish 314 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: cutting your grass for you. And he the man was like, no, 315 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: I got it, And he finally convinced him. His name 316 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: was mister Brown. I can't believe I remember that part 317 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: of the story, but that was a man's name, and 318 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 1: Rodney cut his grass. Six years later, he has inspired 319 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: over ten thousand kids to cut fifty yards across the 320 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: world for free, and has cut two hundred thousand yards 321 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:36,719 Speaker 1: for free for the elderly, the single moms, the handicap, 322 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: and veterans. And he has on eight different occasions gone 323 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: across the country and cut a different yard in every 324 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: state in our country, including Alaska, Hawaii, to honor veterans, 325 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: to honor breast cancer, to whatever, and along the way 326 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: gets all these kids to join the fifty yard Challenge 327 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: to cut and they have cut literally a quarter of 328 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,439 Speaker 1: a million yards for free for people who can't afford 329 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: to have the yard cut and physically can't do it. 330 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: And it started with one yard, mister Brown. And it's 331 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,639 Speaker 1: the same story with everyone I talk. Don't let the 332 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: don't let the magnitude of what any of you people, 333 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: what any normal folks have, the eventuality of what your 334 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: stories have become. Don't listeners, don't audience folks. Don't let 335 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 1: that deter you of what is developed to just start. 336 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: It's a first yard, it's the first house, it's the 337 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: it's the it's it's the first outreach that matters. And 338 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: if you do it right, with the right motive and 339 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: the right compassion and the right effort, you never know 340 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: where it's gonna go. And Rodney Smith started with one yard, 341 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: and you start with one house. And I think it's 342 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 1: important to understand that. But if there's some big developers 343 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: out there, you can start with the one apartment building. 344 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. But I love that story. I 345 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: think that's I think this you know that captures the 346 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: essence of it. I in my younger years, I used 347 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: to run a little bit. I ran a marathon with 348 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 2: one of my kids, and we ran every step together. 349 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 2: And when you get tired, It's kind of a mental 350 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: game you play when you get tired. You're thinking, shoot, 351 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: I got six miles left or whatever. Well, you'll get 352 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 2: even more tired of thinking about that. So you say, 353 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: I think I can run to the you know, the 354 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 2: street sign up there, and then from there, I think 355 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 2: I can run to the fire hydrant. I think I 356 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 2: can run to that tree, and I think I can 357 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: run to the intersection. And you just break it up 358 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: into bite sized pieces mentally, just and and before you 359 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: know it, you've been a mathah, you've run a marathon. 360 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: And I think it's the same thing. He didn't start 361 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 2: I guarantee he didn't start out by saying I'm gonna 362 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: do hundreds of thousands of yards. 363 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: He went anything about cutting grassy saw the man. 364 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. 365 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: And then it turned into this. And so you know, 366 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: don't get don't get overwhelmed. But the more of the stories. 367 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: Don't get overwhelmed by the scope of what any of 368 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: our guests have done. Just remember they, like everybody else, 369 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: started with the first one. 370 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. 371 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: We'll be right back tim. The biggest hope every one 372 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: of these things I do is that somebody's listening. We 373 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: had our che Cooper on two weeks ago, rowing we've 374 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: had Tommy on Cops. We've had and will continue to 375 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: have all kinds of people, and we hope that people 376 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: entertain and inspired. But we hope that if someone listens 377 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: long enough, if they have a passion about something that 378 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: matches with their particular discipline, they don't have to ask, well, 379 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: I love to get involved, but how? And we hope 380 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: that they just heard how. We also want to match 381 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: people up that want to note not only the how, 382 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: that have the passion and want employ their discipline, but 383 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: to have kind of a mentor to help them do it. 384 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: So if somebody's listening to us today that says I 385 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: want to do in my town what Tim does? How 386 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: do they find you? How can they call you? How 387 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: can they reach you? Email you? Whatever? To Actually, I 388 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: would assume you would be happy to shepherd somebody through 389 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: the initial ropes of doing this. 390 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, we were kind of We use the term open sourcing, 391 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: So the lessons we've learned, we're happy to share with 392 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 2: anybody because we're not trying to steal somebody else's piece 393 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: of the pie affordable housing development. We're trying to make 394 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 2: a bigger pie. And so our company is called Croslin Southeast. 395 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 2: See our os L A and D Cross in Southeast. 396 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 2: Look us up on the internet. My email addresses in there. 397 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 2: Shoot me a line and I'd be happy to get 398 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 2: back to you. 399 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: My brother. You start in Southside Chicago, the son of 400 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 1: a still worker and a teacher who got married and 401 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: started having kids, and took a job in Denver as 402 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: an engineer of some sort, and then took a wing 403 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: and a prayer at thirty years old and started a business, 404 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: ended up in Charlotte because your family mattered to you. 405 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: There's nothing more normal than that. That's just an American story. 406 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: And you are my friend, changing lives and you and 407 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: your group, the numbers speak for themselves. There's four thousand 408 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: people that are better off the day than they were 409 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: before you started. And I have no doubt you're not 410 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: ending this up. You just continue to start it up. 411 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: And I hope people that listen to us, someone out there, 412 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: or a few people out there who are in your 413 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: world professionally might be motivated to reach out and say, 414 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: you know what, I want to give it a shot. 415 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: And you're a normal folk who's done some extraordinary things 416 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: for some people. And dude, I just want to really 417 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your story. 418 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, coach. It's been great to be here. 419 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 3: So as I you know, I can't help my business 420 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 3: brain keeps creeping into our conversation, and I'm thinking about 421 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 3: the enormous front ended, front loaded costs to get. 422 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: This thing going. And I get that with the tax credits, 423 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: the city bonds and whatever rent that the affordable housing 424 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,199 Speaker 1: spins off, you kind of piece all these legs together 425 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: to hold up the stool, but you still had to 426 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: start and those that money wasn't there at first. So 427 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 1: I guess what I'm asking is how long did it 428 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: take before it was at least funding itself? You know, 429 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: what was what kind of investment did it take on 430 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: the front end in terms of time and outlay before 431 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: you're able to recoup your upfront cost and at least 432 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 1: started cash flowing. 433 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,439 Speaker 2: Yeah. That we could spend all day talking about that, 434 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: ah bet, I tell you, just like any business, it's 435 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 2: rare to start a business that's profitable, profitable from day one. 436 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,199 Speaker 1: No, I know this. I actually it's part of a 437 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: speech I do. But the data is a startup company 438 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: rarely shows a profit before it's fourteenth month, and if 439 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,640 Speaker 1: by its thirty six month it's not profitable, it's bankrupt, 440 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: just doesn't know it yet. And that window is fourteen 441 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: to thirty six months. You got to get it right 442 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: and it's got to start cash flowing or you're probably done. 443 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: We missed that window, so I would say it took 444 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 2: us forty eight to sixty months to hit the breakeven 445 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 2: break even. 446 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: Where the bonds and the and the and the tax 447 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: credits and the rint you did get were. 448 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: Actually well, we don't get the rent. Freedom Communities gets 449 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 2: the rent, I mean, that's what I'm saying. So we 450 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: get a part of the company Cross in Southeast gets. 451 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: So so again we have a just a really I think, 452 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: rather unique partnership where Freedom Communities owns all the apartments 453 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 2: that we build, uh, and now we're starting to do 454 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 2: some for sale and for rent town homes as well 455 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 2: that that Freedom is involved with, and Cross in Southeast 456 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: does basically all the work, takes all the financial risk, 457 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 2: makes all the upfront investment, and our team builds highest 458 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 2: contractors and project manages these these developments and then Freedom 459 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 2: then ends up owning them. So it's a great partnership 460 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: between a business and a nonprofit and it took us 461 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,959 Speaker 2: four to five years before the development fees basically started 462 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: covering our overhead expense. These development fees, it takes a 463 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 2: couple of years to start a project. You know, when 464 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: if you decide today, I'm going to be an affordable 465 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 2: housing developer, by the time you start construction, it's probably 466 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: two years from now. You got to find a site, 467 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 2: you got to design it, you got to zone it, 468 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 2: you got to permit it, and all that kind of stuff. 469 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 2: And then the development fees that you're allowed to take 470 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 2: are kind of back end loaded. They're not going to 471 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: pay you first and then say I hope you build 472 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 2: a project. They're going to say build a project, then 473 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: it will give you your cut and so so right then, 474 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, that's three four years from now when you 475 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: start getting some development fees. 476 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: And so did you ever lay on the bed start 477 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: to say aem worried about it? 478 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we did more because I have great business 479 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 2: partners and I kind of I told them I wanted 480 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: to do the affordable housing thing, and they said, why 481 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 2: would we do that? And I said, well, I'm going 482 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,239 Speaker 2: to do it. You know, I'd like to do it 483 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 2: under our crawls in Southeast ben Or. But if not, 484 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,119 Speaker 2: you know, I'll do it myself. And they said, well, 485 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: we don't want you doing that. So they said, well, 486 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: we just hope we don't lose money on the deal. 487 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: And I said, I guarantee you won't lose money. And 488 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 2: so I had kind of promised my partners that we 489 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: would they wouldn't lose their shirts doing it. And it 490 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: took four or five years, but we got into I'll 491 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: tell you another thing. We've got The first two people 492 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 2: we hired our guys that are my age, that had 493 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,439 Speaker 2: full careers in banking and business and they wanted to 494 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: do something different. They wanted to do something meaningful. These 495 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 2: are two brilliant guys that could lead companies. And I 496 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 2: mean they're one of the guys we call savant. I 497 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: mean just super bright and and financially oriented, and they 498 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 2: cared and they wanted to They kind of have we 499 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 2: call a halftime journey. They spent their business lives doing 500 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 2: something and now they want to do something from success 501 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 2: to significance kind of. And I started talking to these 502 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 2: guys and they said, yeah, that sounds great. And so 503 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: we learned together. You know about affordable housing. And the 504 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 2: truth is I pay him a fraction of what they're 505 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: worth and give them a little piece of the upside. 506 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 2: And they're not doing it for the money. They're doing 507 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 2: it to make a difference. 508 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? When I started at Manassas, it was 509 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: Jim Tipton who really got me there, who works for 510 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: me and me, and that was it. Fast forward seven years. 511 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: Mike Ray, who works at FedEx and played football for 512 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: Larry Lacewell at Arkansas State, was actually on the Team 513 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: of the Decade. He's good guy. Was my offensive line coach. 514 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: Jeff Germany, who played for Lou Holts at Arkansas, helped 515 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: with defensive line. On offensive line. Mike Walker, who was 516 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: Hardball's back up at the University of Michigan's quarterbacks coach 517 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: haul him back, who's a FedEx pilot. The kids called 518 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: him Coach Fly because he flew airplanes. They couldn't pronounce 519 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: all them back. He was the kicking coach. I'd gone 520 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: down the line. And the point is, these men are 521 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: still among the most important friendships I have in the world, 522 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: and I have no doubt I could call any of 523 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: them today and they would be there for me. I 524 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: would have never met him had I not gone to Manasses, 525 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: I would have never developed a relationship with them to 526 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: I have not gone to Manasses. And in it interesting 527 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: the circle of people that are probably around you now 528 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: that you would have never had around you, doing amazing 529 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: work for the most disadvantaged among Charlotte, that you would 530 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: have even never been around had you not ever gone 531 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: down this path. 532 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that is so accurate. You know, they 533 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 2: I've been reading for years. You know, twenty percent of 534 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: your salespeople do eighty percent of your sales. Twenty percent 535 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: of the people do eighty percent of the work. I 536 00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: like to say a lot. I like hanging around with 537 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: twenty because those are you know, those are the guys 538 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 2: that are getting done. And uh and I've got a 539 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: team of people like that. And and that's one of 540 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: the other indirect benefits that that I wouldn't have expected. 541 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: But I've got deeper relationships with higher quality individuals, more 542 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 2: deep seated joy, and just more fulfillment doing this stuff. 543 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: I may have a smaller paycheck than I might have, 544 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 2: you know, had I pursued other types of development. And 545 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 2: I don't really care about it. I mean, it's it's 546 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 2: something that not everybody can do what I'm doing. I 547 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: realize that because I'm old enough to have made some 548 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: money along the along the way, and and uh but 549 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: a lot of people would keep, you know, trying to 550 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: you know, build as big a bank account as they can. 551 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: And uh yeah, but Tim, you know what, there are 552 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people who have done what you've done. 553 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: They could do this. Yeah, And I submit, And I 554 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: believe with everything I am there's a lot of people 555 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: in this country who are in a position but they 556 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: get called for checks all the time. Yeah, they really 557 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: don't have a template of what could happen, and guys 558 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: like you provide that. Yeah. 559 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 2: Well I hope, So I hope. And if there's anybody 560 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 2: listening out there that you know, is inspired at all 561 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 2: by this, I'd love to have a conversation and see 562 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: if I can, you know, help points you in a 563 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: specific direction that that you can do some of the 564 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: same kind of stuff. And again, if you're an accountant 565 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: or if you're a school teacher or whatever, there's there's 566 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: you know, you don't not everybody's going to do real 567 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: estate or affordable housing. But you know, it's been a 568 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 2: privilege to me. I feel. You know, I'm a sixty 569 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: I'll be sixty five years old this year. I'll I 570 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 2: have more fulfillment professionally in these last five or ten 571 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 2: years than I've had in my whole entire life. And 572 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 2: you know, I get up in the morning eager to 573 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: get going, and not everybody can say that. 574 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us this week. Guys. If 575 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: Tim or another guest has inspired you in general, or 576 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: better yet, to take action by wanting to build affordable 577 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: housing in your community, by donating to Freedom Communities, or 578 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: something else entirely, please let me know. I'd love to 579 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill 580 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: at normalfolks dot us and I will respond. Or you 581 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: can use the Badger hotline nine oh one three five 582 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: two one three sixty six. Leave us a voicemail, We'll 583 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: listen and we'll respond. If you enjoy this episode, share 584 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: friends that on social, subscribe to the podcast, rate and 585 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: review it, become a premium member at normalfolks dot us. 586 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: All these things that will help us grow an army 587 00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.