Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast, your guide to
Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First
Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 2: Welcome my friends to another episode of the Wired to
Speaker 2: Hunt podcast. This week on the show, we are discussing
Speaker 2: an epic hunt with my son. We're gonna be chatting
Speaker 2: about my approach to balancing hunting and home life. We'll
Speaker 2: be discussing how I try to decide when to stay
Speaker 2: in a hunting spot and when to move in a
Speaker 2: whole lot more related to questions that you the listeners
Speaker 2: sent in. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light and their Camo for
Speaker 2: Conservation Initiative. You're hopefully familiar with this, but the Camo
Speaker 2: for Conservation Initiative is something that is in place with
Speaker 2: first Lights Whitetail Pattern. Any sale of a specter camel
Speaker 2: product that's our whitetail pattern, from every one of those sales,
Speaker 2: a portion of those proceeds go to support the National
Speaker 2: Dear Association, which I am a big fan of and
Speaker 2: a fan of that program so good stuff right there. Now.
Speaker 2: Today on the podcast, we're doing something a little bit different.
Speaker 2: There is no guests. It is just me and you.
Speaker 2: We're gonna sit here have a little bit of a
Speaker 2: one on one chat of sorts, because I've got some
Speaker 2: stuff to talk about. I've got some stories, some hunting
Speaker 2: stories I want to share with you. I've got some
Speaker 2: updates I want to share with you. I've got some
Speaker 2: recommendations I want to share with you. And I want
Speaker 2: to tackle the specific questions that you guys want answers to.
Speaker 2: I asked for listeners submitted questions recently and got a
Speaker 2: whole pile of them. So I want to take some
Speaker 2: time here to kick back with you, talk about the
Speaker 2: stuff that you're wondering about, and catch up. Plan Nothing
Speaker 2: too fancy, but I think it will be maybe beneficial
Speaker 2: for myself and for you to take a step back
Speaker 2: from hearing from a million different people dive into these
Speaker 2: different things. Instead just talk you and me back and
Speaker 2: forth about what's on your mind. I wish I could
Speaker 2: do this kind of thing one on one actually with you.
Speaker 2: It would be if somehow I had infinite time. It
Speaker 2: would be awesome to set up a one on one
Speaker 2: meeting with every one of our listeners to find out,
Speaker 2: you know, what is it you're struggling with, What is
Speaker 2: it that you're interested in, What is it that you
Speaker 2: wish we could talk about more often? That kind of
Speaker 2: stuff is great for me to know about, to hear about.
Speaker 2: So just FYI, if ever you want to submit that
Speaker 2: kind of feedback, I'd love it. Probably the best places
Speaker 2: to do it is probably over on my Instagram account.
Speaker 2: Send me a message there, very interested in that. I've
Speaker 2: been doing this podcast for more than a decade now,
Speaker 2: you know, we're approaching a thousand episodes. We've been doing
Speaker 2: this a long time, so it's great to hear from
Speaker 2: you on you know, what gaps we have where we've
Speaker 2: missed something, or where maybe we talked about something years
Speaker 2: ago but would be worth resurfacing and diving into again.
Speaker 2: It's easy sometimes in my role to forget about some
Speaker 2: of those things, or to think like, ah, that's so basic,
Speaker 2: everybody already knows that. But actually it's only that weight
Speaker 2: in my mind because I talked about it so much five, six,
Speaker 2: seven years ago. But maybe there's someone new here who
Speaker 2: has never been introduced to this concept or these sets
Speaker 2: of ideas, So please let me know this podcast is
Speaker 2: for you. This podcast is to try to help folks
Speaker 2: grow as hunters grow, as conservationists grow as outdoorsmen and women,
Speaker 2: and I am open to any and all feedback. So,
Speaker 2: like I mentioned in this show, we're going to do
Speaker 2: some Q and A talking about all sorts of hunting
Speaker 2: specific things, everything from you know, the gear I use
Speaker 2: on my archery setups, to how I decide when I'm
Speaker 2: going to hunt a spot, when I'm going to move,
Speaker 2: when I'm going to stick it out, when I'm going
Speaker 2: to shift, talking about the states I'm hunting this year,
Speaker 2: talking about some of my most recommended whitetail specific books.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about my favorite times to hunt
Speaker 2: mornings versus evenings. I think we'll get to that one.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the impact of hunting media,
Speaker 2: going to tackle a question on that one, how I
Speaker 2: make decisions on what deer I'm going to target or
Speaker 2: shoot in the moment, and a whole lot more, lots
Speaker 2: and lots of great questions. I hopefully will be able
Speaker 2: to get to all of these. We'll see how long
Speaker 2: all of this takes. But before the questions, want to
Speaker 2: give you one update and two stories. All right, So
Speaker 2: first an update. Just this past weekend, we kicked off
Speaker 2: our first Working for Wildlife Tour event of twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: This is a program I'm super proud of. I've really
Speaker 2: enjoyed and have been inspired by. If you're not familiar,
Speaker 2: last year, I kicked off this tour in which I
Speaker 2: was traveling around the country visiting six different volunteer habitat
Speaker 2: days on public lands across all sorts of different regions
Speaker 2: of the country. We went to Massachusetts, Idaho, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri,
Speaker 2: and Michigan. I think where the six states we had
Speaker 2: more than five hundred volunteers participate. I should have pulled
Speaker 2: up these numbers. It was a pretty amazing slate of
Speaker 2: impacts that we made. And if you will be patient
Speaker 2: with me here for a moment, I'm actually going to
Speaker 2: pull up that information. Let's see here. Five hundred volunteers.
Speaker 2: We collected more than two thousand pounds of trash, improved
Speaker 2: more than eighteen acres of early secessional habitat, created eighty
Speaker 2: small game brush piles, helped improve more than a dozen
Speaker 2: acres of aspen forest, planted thirty five acres of wildlife
Speaker 2: food plots, planted two hundred crab apple trees, and collected
Speaker 2: around eight hundred pounds of white oak acorns for future
Speaker 2: reforestation efforts. So that's what we did last year. And
Speaker 2: this year we kicked off, like I mentioned that first,
Speaker 2: that first event this past weekend on Saturday, with a
Speaker 2: return trip to Kentucky and the Daniel Boone National Forest.
Speaker 2: And this time we were, you know, last time we
Speaker 2: collected white oak acorns, this time we were actually helping
Speaker 2: do some restoration work on standing white oak stands. So
Speaker 2: we actually went in there and did what's called a
Speaker 2: crown release in which we were locating white oaks in
Speaker 2: a very dense, mature forest and removing encroaching competing trees
Speaker 2: that are less desirable for wildlife so there'd be more
Speaker 2: sunlight for those oaks to grow, more sunlight hitting the
Speaker 2: forest floor, creating new growth on the ground level where
Speaker 2: deer and other wildlife can benefit. So we did that.
Speaker 2: We also did some work in some open areas where
Speaker 2: there was invasive autumolive honeysuckle other things like that that
Speaker 2: had taken over these openings, and a group of folks
Speaker 2: came in there and we did hack and squirret techniques
Speaker 2: where you hack a cut basically into the trunk of
Speaker 2: those autumolive trees and spray in herbicide that will then
Speaker 2: kill them. And this is then going to open up
Speaker 2: landscape for native species to grow and flourish and provide
Speaker 2: all the benefits that native vegetation provides to wildlife. So
Speaker 2: that's what we got done. It was, you know, as
Speaker 2: all of these have been eye opening. I learned a lot,
Speaker 2: I met a lot of great people, had a good time,
Speaker 2: and you know, it feels good to do something tangible.
Speaker 2: It feels really good to do something on the landscape
Speaker 2: that helps improve our public lands, that gives back to wildlife,
Speaker 2: that will benefit future hunters, future people out there enjoying
Speaker 2: our wildlife. Maybe my kids someday will be able to
Speaker 2: go out there to the National Forest in Kentucky and
Speaker 2: enjoy these landscapes, and I will feel and I will
Speaker 2: sleep real well at night knowing that I was able
Speaker 2: to contribute to that. Another really cool thing that happened
Speaker 2: at the end of that trip, I actually got to
Speaker 2: go to the nursery where they are growing the acorns
Speaker 2: that we collected last fall. So that seven or eight
Speaker 2: hundred pounds of acorns we collected last fall where then
Speaker 2: brought to a nursery, a state nursery implanted, and those
Speaker 2: as have resulted now in fifteen thousand white oak seedlings growing.
Speaker 2: I got to go see them. I got to touch
Speaker 2: the white oak seedilings. Fifteen thousand new trees growing because
Speaker 2: of us, because we collected these, and now they're being
Speaker 2: grown so they can get a good head start, and
Speaker 2: the next spring they will be lifted brought back out
Speaker 2: to the National Forest in areas that need to be reforested,
Speaker 2: and then we will be a part of a tree
Speaker 2: planting where we will hopefully get to plant a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of those trees back on the ground, back where
Speaker 2: these you know where these trees are from, and create
Speaker 2: another wonderful ecosystem for deer, turkeys, squirrels, all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2: And that's something I'm pretty pumped about as well. So
Speaker 2: good news on the Working for Wildlift Tour event. There's
Speaker 2: another one coming June first in Pennsylvania in the Alleghany
Speaker 2: National Forest, I believe it is. If you'd like to
Speaker 2: join me there, I'd love to meet you. I'd love
Speaker 2: to do some good work for wildlife with you. It's
Speaker 2: the specific details I suppose we don't need to get
Speaker 2: into right at this moment, doing some more tangible forest work,
Speaker 2: habitat improvement work. And you can sign up and get
Speaker 2: more information over at the National Deer Association's website. They're
Speaker 2: the ones who have the registration page. It is at
Speaker 2: Deer Association dot com slash w f W. You know,
Speaker 2: working for wildlife. So go to Deer Association dot com
Speaker 2: slash WFW and that's going to be how you can
Speaker 2: sign up. Can't wait. That one's gonna be fun. So
Speaker 2: that's the update. That's the news I wanted to share.
Speaker 2: Now a couple stories, So since we chatted last time,
Speaker 2: a couple very cool things happened. One and if you
Speaker 2: subscribe to our newsletter, which I hope you do, you
Speaker 2: will have maybe already gotten a taste of this story.
Speaker 2: You'll know what happened. But my son and I, my
Speaker 2: six year old son, Everett and I had our first
Speaker 2: successful turkey hunt together. And I've been taking about turkey
Speaker 2: hunting since he was like four months old. Like I
Speaker 2: can still very clearly remember taking them out in a
Speaker 2: little chest pack and walking them out into the woods
Speaker 2: and calling turkeys and getting turkeys a gobble and actually
Speaker 2: bringing in some turkeys relatively close gobbling and him kind
Speaker 2: of just a wide eyed baby, not knowing what the
Speaker 2: heck's going on. And every year since he's gone out
Speaker 2: into the woods with me, usually for just fake turkey hunts, right,
Speaker 2: we just go out there and try to call birds in.
Speaker 2: But he's been doing it every spring since as long
Speaker 2: as he can remember, and before that, and we've had
Speaker 2: some cool encounters. We've had great memories. Some of you
Speaker 2: might remember the time that we called in three birds
Speaker 2: while he had his pretend shotgun which was an umbrella,
Speaker 2: and we actually got birds into range and then he
Speaker 2: you know, asking me, Dad, can I take a shot?
Speaker 2: And it says sure, so he goes cabo as soon
Speaker 2: as he came into twenty yards. So great memories. But
Speaker 2: now we actually have a real turkey hunt with a
Speaker 2: successful ending. And it started, as many of our hunts do.
Speaker 2: We just decided to walk out into this property just
Speaker 2: before first light and wait until we could hear a
Speaker 2: bird's strike up on this particular farm. The turkeys are
Speaker 2: not terribly consistent with where they roost. It just seems
Speaker 2: like every time you go out there, they're either on
Speaker 2: the north side or the south side, or way back
Speaker 2: to the east. And every time I ever try to
Speaker 2: get in super early and set up, I'm always in
Speaker 2: the wrong place. Even if you try to go in
Speaker 2: the roof something, you very rarely get one to talk
Speaker 2: in the evening for whatever reason in this area, so
Speaker 2: roosting has not been something that's worked. So what I
Speaker 2: do instead is I get out there just before daylight
Speaker 2: and we'll just kind of stand in a central location
Speaker 2: and wait till we hear one gobbling, and then we'll
Speaker 2: make a move and get as close as we can
Speaker 2: set up there and let things play out. So that's
Speaker 2: what happened in this case. We heard one gobbling at
Speaker 2: the very far back corner of the property, probably on
Speaker 2: the neighbors, and start hiking out and hiked hight hiked.
Speaker 2: It's getting lighter, it's getting lighter. We get up to
Speaker 2: the edge of this power line clearing and I can
Speaker 2: tell that bird is somewhere in the deep timber just
Speaker 2: on the other side of the clearing. So I put
Speaker 2: the decoys in the power line and there's no tree
Speaker 2: for us to set up on. So what we have
Speaker 2: to do is lay down the tall grass next to
Speaker 2: this opening. So I'm laying down on my belly, prone,
Speaker 2: and Everett gets next to me, and then either because
Speaker 2: it wasn't comfortable or because you know, he couldn't see,
Speaker 2: whatever reason, he crawled up on my back and I
Speaker 2: decided to just let that slide. So Evertt's laying on
Speaker 2: my back, I'm laying on my belly, and I'm yelp, yelp, yelping,
Speaker 2: and this gobbler just hammer him back. Every time I yelp,
Speaker 2: he hammers back. So make sure he knows that I'm there,
Speaker 2: and then I stop, wait till he flies down. He
Speaker 2: eventually does and just starts like immediately coming our way.
Speaker 2: So I get Everett into position, get him ready, we
Speaker 2: run through. You know again, what we gotta do. Gotta
Speaker 2: be super still, gotta be super quiet. He should come out,
Speaker 2: work his way towards the decoys. Right, and he comes out.
Speaker 2: You can tell when that sound changes that he's in
Speaker 2: the opening, like all right, buddy, he's coming, like, get ready,
Speaker 2: my gun's up into position. Evert's ready, and just you
Speaker 2: can see he's fired up, and that bird instead of
Speaker 2: coming out to the decoys in front of us, kind
Speaker 2: of parallels us and goes across the power line opening
Speaker 2: into the timber little strip of timber that we're laying
Speaker 2: in right now, and actually goes behind us into this cornfield.
Speaker 2: And it's Everett who actually kind of called it. He said, Dad,
Speaker 2: I think he's going behind us, and he gobbled again.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yep, I think you're right he is. So
Speaker 2: now Everett had to roll off of me. We had
Speaker 2: to spin around one hundred and eighty degrees and start
Speaker 2: belly crawling back through the timber towards that other opening
Speaker 2: where he was heading towards in the cornfield. So we
Speaker 2: do this, and the whole time thinking, man, this is
Speaker 2: probably gonna blow up on our face. Is that birds?
Speaker 2: You know? Who knows what he can see? It's pretty brushy,
Speaker 2: there's a good amount of new growth already. But you know,
Speaker 2: I had a six year old with me. It just
Speaker 2: seemed like this was there was many many different ways
Speaker 2: that could go wrong. But unbelievably, this bird gets out
Speaker 2: to the cornfield, We get spun around, we get moved
Speaker 2: into position, and that goal there's gobble gobble struck, gobblestrutt
Speaker 2: and I can just see his head starting to move through,
Speaker 2: and sure enough he comes all the way until he
Speaker 2: gets perpendicular with us straight in front of us. But
Speaker 2: he's moving quick, and I just see like, here's my
Speaker 2: one opening. He gets into this one opening these trees.
Speaker 2: I kind of do a quickly cut just enough to
Speaker 2: stop him and reach out his head and gobble. He
Speaker 2: hammers one more time and then I set it off,
Speaker 2: pull the trigger. The bird drops. Everett is in shock.
Speaker 2: We both stand up and run over there, high fives, hugs,
Speaker 2: the whole nine yards. Just a really really cool experience
Speaker 2: to share that with my son, to see it finally
Speaker 2: come together after you know, a bunch of hunts last
Speaker 2: year that we were trying to get it done, and
Speaker 2: this year and he was a trooper. He wanted to,
Speaker 2: you know, help carry the bird, and he wanted to
Speaker 2: do the whole nine yards. We you know, got the
Speaker 2: spurs and pulled off the beard and then actually cold
Speaker 2: my four year old helped me butcher the bird. He
Speaker 2: wanted to use his knife to try to cut the
Speaker 2: breast out and the whole the whole thing. So just
Speaker 2: a really really cool family experience there with a turkey.
Speaker 2: This spring, very grateful that it came together, and you know,
Speaker 2: the first of what I imagine is going to be
Speaker 2: a lot of great turkey hunts with my boys, and
Speaker 2: Colt already wants to go out there himself and get
Speaker 2: one for him too. So un fortunately we only get
Speaker 2: one turkey tag in Michigan, so we're gonna have to
Speaker 2: wait till next year for a real turkey hunt. But
Speaker 2: we have gone on more fake turkey hunts since, just
Speaker 2: trying to call him in and having some fun, so
Speaker 2: good stuff there with the Kenyan family. And that leads
Speaker 2: me to my second story, which is just gonna be
Speaker 2: a brief one. But I just recently got back from
Speaker 2: Florida and I was down there on a trip learning
Speaker 2: about the Everglades ecosystem and what's going on with water
Speaker 2: in southern Florida and how it's impacting the surrounding ocean,
Speaker 2: the Gulf of Mexico, Florida Bay, Biscayne Bay, the Florida Keys,
Speaker 2: this whole area, and they're incredible fishery there. There's just
Speaker 2: this unbelievable world renowned fishery. A lot of you are
Speaker 2: likely familiar with that fact. You've probably heard about folks
Speaker 2: fishing in that area. Tony was just down there fishing recently,
Speaker 2: and I too, And so this trip was a little
Speaker 2: bit of an investigated, investigative trip, I suppose, in which
Speaker 2: I was meeting with a whole bunch of different people,
Speaker 2: everything from folks from nonprofit organizations to anglers, commercial anglers,
Speaker 2: fly fishing guides, folks within the fishing industry, different people
Speaker 2: that are impacted by the environmental situation in that part
Speaker 2: of the country. And I'll save you the long details here,
Speaker 2: but look for more details for me in the future
Speaker 2: on social media and in this big new writing project
Speaker 2: I'm working on, which is a book. And basically, the
Speaker 2: southern half of Florida is being starved of fresh water
Speaker 2: because of how over the last one hundred years we
Speaker 2: replumbed the Everglades. There should be this massive flow of
Speaker 2: water from kind of around Orlandosh area north of Lake
Speaker 2: Ocachobe all all the way down through Florida, super wide,
Speaker 2: super shallow that drives water straight down to the southern
Speaker 2: tip of the state and out into Florida Bay and
Speaker 2: Biscayne Bay and down towards the Keys and into this incredible,
Speaker 2: incredibly productive estuary for fish like tarpain and redfish and
Speaker 2: snook and bonefish and permit and all sorts of incredible
Speaker 2: species like that. But we've kind of messed it all up.
Speaker 2: We've built canals where this shouldn't be. We're pushing water
Speaker 2: where it shouldn't be, We're drying up and draining water
Speaker 2: where it should be, and it's leading to all sorts
Speaker 2: of crazy things going on with the environment down there,
Speaker 2: and declining fish populations, destroyed wildlife, habitat, a lot of stuff. Again,
Speaker 2: maybe at a later day we'll get into this, but
Speaker 2: long story short, some serious issues there that we as
Speaker 2: hunters and anglers can be a part of the solution.
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about it. You can
Speaker 2: learn a lot about this over at the website. They're
Speaker 2: put together by Captains for Clean Water. They're doing a
Speaker 2: really good job of helping educate anglers on what's happening there,
Speaker 2: how it's impacting anglers and fish and habitat, and what
Speaker 2: we can do. So highly suggest that you can check
Speaker 2: out the Everglades Foundation website and resources. I read a
Speaker 2: great book called The Swamp that talks all about this.
Speaker 2: If you really want to dive deep, i'd suggest picking
Speaker 2: that one up. But here's the deal. I went down
Speaker 2: there to learn about these things and to experience the
Speaker 2: place myself. So my friend and I got to hang
Speaker 2: out in the Everglades, got to take an airboat tour,
Speaker 2: got to do some fishing around the Everglades, got to
Speaker 2: fish one of the canal systems up there, called the
Speaker 2: Tamiami Trail. We got to try bone fishing for the
Speaker 2: first time by ourselves on the flats. We caught some
Speaker 2: invasive species and non natives that have been planted in
Speaker 2: the waters of Florida, which has happened at a crazy rate,
Speaker 2: leading to many of the fresh waters of Florida being
Speaker 2: taken over by species from South America, actually sicklids and
Speaker 2: peacock bass and stuff like that. So we did some
Speaker 2: of that and saw some of that firsthand. But the
Speaker 2: big thing we did was fly fish for tarpin. And
Speaker 2: this was the craziest fishing experience I've probably had in
Speaker 2: my life. It's the closest thing I've ever had to
Speaker 2: hunting while fishing. It's nuts. If you've never done it,
Speaker 2: I can't suggest you tried enough. But I also will
Speaker 2: preface this by saying it will be incredibly frustrating, incredibly difficult,
Speaker 2: very challenging, but also highly addictive. Basically, it's like it's
Speaker 2: like bow hunting with a recurve for an animal that
Speaker 2: is pretty rare, and that only shows it. You have
Speaker 2: to sit fish for this thing. So you need to
Speaker 2: see this thing with your eyes while you're standing on
Speaker 2: the bow of a boat. And this thing will appear
Speaker 2: very quickly and you will have just a couple quick
Speaker 2: seconds to identify it, figure out its trajectory, and then
Speaker 2: lay a perfect cast right in front of it at
Speaker 2: the perfect time, use the perfect presentation, move it just perfectly.
Speaker 2: And these like one to two seconds you have and
Speaker 2: you're all doing that while a fish that's the size
Speaker 2: of a small car is swimming towards you very quickly.
Speaker 2: These are like five foot long, six foot long, eight
Speaker 2: foot long fish, fish that can weigh one hundred pounds
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty pounds two hundred pounds torpedoing at you,
Speaker 2: and you have to see it. You have to compose yourself.
Speaker 2: You need to present a perfect cast, do all this
Speaker 2: kind of stuff just like this. You have. Now that's it.
Speaker 2: It's it's insane. It led to buck fever in the
Speaker 2: boat shaking feet, shaking legs, crumbling mental fortitude. I mean,
Speaker 2: it was nuts. It was something else. I will be
Speaker 2: talking about this some MOI later day in more detail two,
Speaker 2: but I can tell you that one of my best
Speaker 2: hunting buddies told me that he's never experienced anything else
Speaker 2: in his life that has made him crumble physically and
Speaker 2: mentally like this did. So just really really cool experience
Speaker 2: and another great reminder of how important these places are.
Speaker 2: These fish populations are. Just like we care about our
Speaker 2: public lands and wildlife habitat for deer and other terrestrial creatures. Man,
Speaker 2: if you love to fish, the same care is needed
Speaker 2: for these water ecosystems too, And the more I learn
Speaker 2: about it, the more I'm seeing that there are just
Speaker 2: as many threats, if not more so, on the water
Speaker 2: side of things. And I'm glad I got to see
Speaker 2: this firsthand. And I've got a new thing to fight
Speaker 2: for there too. So that's my little fishing store for
Speaker 2: the day. Now, that's my update. Those are my two stories.
Speaker 2: I said they are two hunt stories. One was technically
Speaker 2: a fishing story, but it's like fish hunting, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna say that that counts another thing. Since there's nobody
Speaker 2: else here. We've got all the time in the world.
Speaker 2: I thought I would give you another book recommendation because
Speaker 2: I love books. You know what you've heard it. We
Speaker 2: did this about a month ago in which Tony and
Speaker 2: I talked about our favorite hunting books. I guess it
Speaker 2: was hunting in angling books now that I think about it.
Speaker 2: But I listened to a book recently that I thought
Speaker 2: was worth mentioning. And it's not gonna be for everone
Speaker 2: and it goes into a little more detail than some
Speaker 2: folks might need. But the basic premise of the book,
Speaker 2: the high level takeaway from the book, I think is
Speaker 2: something that's super important for all of us to think about.
Speaker 2: The books called Die with Zero by Bill Perkins, and
Speaker 2: the basic gist of this book is something that I
Speaker 2: think is relevant for all of us listening, whether you
Speaker 2: are a deer hunter or a generalist hunter or angler,
Speaker 2: whatever it is you do, just a mom or dad.
Speaker 2: The idea of this book is, like so many of
Speaker 2: us have been trained, we've been preached to about the
Speaker 2: importance of you know, saving all of our money and
Speaker 2: waiting for the future to do stuff right. I think
Speaker 2: most of the advice we get when we're young folks
Speaker 2: in high school or college is get a good job,
Speaker 2: work really hard, put away your money, and someday you'll
Speaker 2: reach the top of the corporate ladder or the top
Speaker 2: of the factory, or you'll do the thing, you'll achieve
Speaker 2: the status, and then at that point you'll have saved
Speaker 2: all of your money, and then you can retire and
Speaker 2: then do the things you want to do in your life. Right,
Speaker 2: that's pretty kind of basic life advice that many of
Speaker 2: us have heard. And I thought about this a lot myself,
Speaker 2: and thought about my own pursuit of the many different
Speaker 2: goals I have, and my pursuits to build a business
Speaker 2: and achieve whatever kinds of things I've tried to achieve
Speaker 2: both prior to meet Eator and Wired to Hunt and
Speaker 2: during my journey with Wired to Hunt and all those
Speaker 2: kinds of things. And something I'm beginning to learn more
Speaker 2: and more is that nothing's guaranteed. Time is not guaranteed,
Speaker 2: the future is not guaranteed. And if we just stow
Speaker 2: away all of our energy and our plans and our
Speaker 2: money for some future date when we retire, or when
Speaker 2: things are just right or we have enough money, or
Speaker 2: when we have enough time. If that's what you do,
Speaker 2: you might not get to that point, or you might
Speaker 2: get to that point and you might not have your health,
Speaker 2: or you might not have your family around with you
Speaker 2: to do these things, or you might not have the
Speaker 2: opportunities to do them like you do right now. And
Speaker 2: so the gist of this book Die with Zero is
Speaker 2: that rather than saving up all of your time and
Speaker 2: money for some future retirement forty years from now or
Speaker 2: twenty years from now, our sixty years from now, instead,
Speaker 2: we might be better served to start using our time
Speaker 2: now to take advantage of what we have. We have health,
Speaker 2: hopefully we have time, possibly, we have our family maybe
Speaker 2: around us now. These things we have, you need to
Speaker 2: take advantage of the present because it might not be
Speaker 2: around in the future. So the gist of this is
Speaker 2: to soak up as much as you can in a
Speaker 2: smart way in the here and now by finding smart
Speaker 2: ways to use your money to do the things at
Speaker 2: the right times in life. So an interesting concept you
Speaker 2: talked about is the fact that you know there's certain
Speaker 2: windows of your life where you will be best able
Speaker 2: to do certain things right. So let's just say like
Speaker 2: going tarpin fishing or going mountain climbing or going on
Speaker 2: that Alaskan caribou hunt. A lot of folks might say, well,
Speaker 2: I'll do that when I retire and I've got all
Speaker 2: my money stowed away, and i can do it then.
Speaker 2: But when you're sixty five or seventy, will you really
Speaker 2: be able to climb that mountain? Will you really be
Speaker 2: able to stand on a bow of a boat for
Speaker 2: twelve hours in the ninety degree heat, casting perfect cast
Speaker 2: to a two hundred pound fish charging your way? Will
Speaker 2: you really be able to, you know, do that mountain
Speaker 2: caribou hunt? There are some things like that that really
Speaker 2: you need to do at a certain phase of life,
Speaker 2: when you have or at least when you have a
Speaker 2: certain level of health or certain level of physical fitness,
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. Or what about stuff with your family?
Speaker 2: You know, I think I said this on the podcast
Speaker 2: several times before I'll say it again because it has
Speaker 2: been so impactful for me. I heard somewhere, I think
Speaker 2: it was last year that the average American eighty percent
Speaker 2: of the time they get with their children happens before
Speaker 2: their child is eighteen. So think of another way. Eighty
Speaker 2: percent of the time I'm going to get with my
Speaker 2: two sons, eighty percent of all of our experiences together
Speaker 2: is likely going to happen over the next ten to
Speaker 2: twelve years. Like I need to pack in a lifetime
Speaker 2: of experiences with my kids before they turn eighteen, if
Speaker 2: that's the case, because after that point, for a lot
Speaker 2: of people across America, right, and maybe for you and
Speaker 2: me this is the case too. Right. We grow up,
Speaker 2: we go off and have our own lives, we move away,
Speaker 2: we get a wife or a husband or a family,
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and we go do our own thing,
Speaker 2: and our parents are there wishing they could spend time
Speaker 2: with us, probably and maybe regretting decisions they made back
Speaker 2: when they were a younger parents, when they could have
Speaker 2: done things with us when we were around, when we
Speaker 2: were interested. But we you know, they had work to do,
Speaker 2: they had other things to do, they had other obligations.
Speaker 2: They said, well, someday when I've got more money, or
Speaker 2: someday when the job is not so pressing, but some
Speaker 2: day doesn't always come. And that I think is the
Speaker 2: big takeaway from this book. The book's a little bit
Speaker 2: more money specific, and you know, certainly not you know,
Speaker 2: everyone has a different financial situation. Not everyone is going
Speaker 2: to be in the same financial situation that Bill is
Speaker 2: as he discusses this, but I think he makes some
Speaker 2: really good high level points that regardless of how much
Speaker 2: money you make, regardless of what you've got saved away,
Speaker 2: it's worth taking a look at these basic concepts of
Speaker 2: you know, looking at your time as the most important
Speaker 2: asset you have, and then thinking about how you best
Speaker 2: use that time to you know, have the experiences you
Speaker 2: want to have, to share time with the people you
Speaker 2: want to spend time with, to make sure you are
Speaker 2: achieving the things you want to achieve in the life,
Speaker 2: having the experiences you want to have in life, pushing
Speaker 2: them away for someday down the line, but making sure
Speaker 2: they're happening now when you actually can do them, and
Speaker 2: not just someday. So Dive a zero by Bill Perkins,
Speaker 2: Take a look. I think it might be worth your time. Now.
Speaker 2: That is it for my random stories, updates and recommendations.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have a drink of water here and then
Speaker 2: I'm gonna start answering some of your listener questions. So
Speaker 2: thank you to everyone who's sent in a question. I
Speaker 2: appreciate those like I mentioned at the top. Love your feedback,
Speaker 2: Love your suggestions, keep them coming. I'll also say it's
Speaker 2: hot in Michigan now. I don't have ac at my
Speaker 2: house and because of the sound, I don't have a
Speaker 2: fan on. It can't open a window. It's getting hot
Speaker 2: in here. My face is getting read. I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm getting a little sw So if you're watching this
Speaker 2: and you're thinking, why does Mark look like he's turning
Speaker 2: into tomato, That's what's going on. So questions, we got
Speaker 2: a lot here. How about this. What month do you
Speaker 2: start to put out your trial cameras. That's something that's
Speaker 2: pretty relevant for a lot of folks right now. If
Speaker 2: you're listening when this just came out, which is in
Speaker 2: end of May. I usually put out my cameras in
Speaker 2: late July or August, depending on where I'm at the time,
Speaker 2: because I've got a kind of a unique living, unique
Speaker 2: living circumstance where I spend part of the year in Idaho,
Speaker 2: part of the year in Michigan. In past years, I've
Speaker 2: waited to put up my cameras until I get back,
Speaker 2: So usually August is when they go up, because that's
Speaker 2: when you've got you know, you can really see what
Speaker 2: you have to work with. You can see what you know,
Speaker 2: a deer is going to look like it's mostly fully
Speaker 2: grown antler wise, you're going to start to be able
Speaker 2: to clearly see mature bucks. You're clearly going to be
Speaker 2: able to able to identify deer that maybe you've seen
Speaker 2: in past years. But if I was not traveling, I'd
Speaker 2: probably do that in July. Probably around the fourth of
Speaker 2: July is when I would historically put out my cameras
Speaker 2: for the year. You're gonna start to really be able
Speaker 2: to tell what these deer are going to be. I
Speaker 2: then run those cameras all the way through the summer,
Speaker 2: the fall, the winter, and keep them up until shed season.
Speaker 2: And then once I see that most of the antlers
Speaker 2: have dropped. Once I see, you know, deer dropping those antlers,
Speaker 2: I usually pull my cameras, clean them, store them away
Speaker 2: for the worst of the winter in the early spring,
Speaker 2: and then put them back out in that midsummer time period.
Speaker 2: Now this year, I'm probably gonna put my cameras out
Speaker 2: here in the next week or so, at least some
Speaker 2: of those cameras, because I'd like to just just for fun,
Speaker 2: keep track of some of this growth as we go
Speaker 2: through this June July period, and then when I come
Speaker 2: home in August, you know, I'll probably put out a
Speaker 2: few more and move them into locations that will be
Speaker 2: more hunting seasons. Specific I've talked about in the past,
Speaker 2: you know, in those summer trail camera locations, I want
Speaker 2: to be by foods or water sources, something that's going
Speaker 2: to congregate deer in those summer months. I don't use bait.
Speaker 2: I do not use minerals. None of that stuff's legal
Speaker 2: here in Michigan. I have used it in the past
Speaker 2: in states where that is legal, but you know here
Speaker 2: in my home state, I can't, so I won't. So instead,
Speaker 2: like I said, you know, bean fields, right, soybean fields,
Speaker 2: incredibly attractive, clover, elflf anything like that. If you have
Speaker 2: agriculture in your area, those can be great locations for
Speaker 2: a summer camera setup. If you're in big woods, if
Speaker 2: there's any kind of clear cut, any kind of openings
Speaker 2: in the woods where you have sunlight reaching the ground,
Speaker 2: that creates lush, high quality food. Lush, high quality, high
Speaker 2: protein food is something that's very attractive in the summer
Speaker 2: to deer. So those are great spots to put those cameras.
Speaker 2: You know, then the next thing I'm trying to do
Speaker 2: is is how do you narrow down movement within a
Speaker 2: food source. Along the edge of a food source, you
Speaker 2: might be able to see trails where trails enter those
Speaker 2: food sources. You might be able to see like a
Speaker 2: corner of a food source is typical for an entry point.
Speaker 2: Many times in a summertime food source like this. Also,
Speaker 2: if there's any kind of funneling mechanism, like a fence
Speaker 2: that has a gate that's open, or a downed wire
Speaker 2: or something that just makes it easier. Right, Deer are
Speaker 2: creatures that prefer the path at least resistance. So if
Speaker 2: there's a spot that's a little bit easier to enter
Speaker 2: the food source, that's the kind of place I'm going
Speaker 2: to look for into place a camera. Maybe you've got
Speaker 2: a creek or something that that it runs along the
Speaker 2: side of the food source. That's another place where you
Speaker 2: can find those pinches of movement. You can find where
Speaker 2: those most popular crossing points are on the creek, and
Speaker 2: that's a great spot. So put your camera where that
Speaker 2: creek crossing meets the food source. So think about that.
Speaker 2: Another thing I almost always do know is this is
Speaker 2: true for summer and for hunting season. But if I
Speaker 2: am putting out a camera along a summer food source,
Speaker 2: I'm almost always going to make sure I have got
Speaker 2: that camera pointed at a licking branch, so a mock
Speaker 2: scrape that I created or a historical scrape that's been
Speaker 2: used in the past. Even though deer aren't kicking up
Speaker 2: the dirt in a scrape during the summer, they are
Speaker 2: still checking those licking branches. They are smelling them, licking them,
Speaker 2: rubbing their faces in them. Deer are going to be
Speaker 2: visiting those locations, and so that's another place that's going
Speaker 2: to focus a little bit more deer activity in front
Speaker 2: of your camera. So put me on a summer food
Speaker 2: source or buy a water hole, and then find something
Speaker 2: that will focus dear activity along that food source, like
Speaker 2: these three four different things I just mentioned. That's my
Speaker 2: summer trail cam plan. Like I mentioned, I'll be doing
Speaker 2: that soon and can't wait to see what it starts
Speaker 2: showing up. Let's see here, here's another one. All right,
Speaker 2: So for boweting white tails, do I prefer mornings or evenings?
Speaker 2: That is dependent on a lot of different things. I
Speaker 2: would tell you that time of year makes a big
Speaker 2: difference here how much time I have to hunt in
Speaker 2: a given location makes a big difference here, situation, you know,
Speaker 2: like circumstantial things can make a difference. But I'll just say, like, purely,
Speaker 2: what do I prefer. Honestly, I prefer evening hunts just
Speaker 2: for pure enjoyment and on average, you know, that's that's what.
Speaker 2: If I could just pick a perfect hunt, it would
Speaker 2: be an evening hunt. And I say that for a
Speaker 2: couple of reasons. Number one, I just don't love waking
Speaker 2: up at three thirty in the morning and having to,
Speaker 2: you know, just be super groggy and tired and drag
Speaker 2: myself out of the house to go in for a
Speaker 2: morning hunt. I'm always happy once I get out there,
Speaker 2: but that get yourself up super super early, go through
Speaker 2: all that stuff in the dark, is less preferential to
Speaker 2: me than the evening hunt. I love an evening hunt
Speaker 2: when you've got that slow build. So I'm talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, one o'clock, one thirty, two o'clock, you're starting
Speaker 2: to say, okay, I'm gonna set aside whatever. Like let's
Speaker 2: say you didn't have to work that day, or it's
Speaker 2: a Saturday, and you know, okay, at one o'clock I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go I'm gonna take my shower, get all cleaned up,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get my gear around, going to you know,
Speaker 2: kind of I listen like some hype up music, right,
Speaker 2: you're able to kind of build into it, and you've
Speaker 2: got energy and you're excited and this anticipation is building,
Speaker 2: and then you go out there and you feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, a ninja slipping into hunt. You know where
Speaker 2: the deer are right as you're heading in for an
Speaker 2: afternoon hunt, you can pretty clearly you have a pretty
Speaker 2: good idea of where those deer are probably bedded, and
Speaker 2: so you can avoid those locations as you slip into hunt.
Speaker 2: You can make sure your wind's not blowing to them,
Speaker 2: so it's like a low stress entry point. I just
Speaker 2: always feel like when I go in for an evening hunt,
Speaker 2: hopes are really high. When you're going in for a
Speaker 2: morning hunt. You can do a lot of things to
Speaker 2: try to make sure you're not spooking deer on the
Speaker 2: way in, but you never know for sure. Right deer
Speaker 2: in the dark sometimes can be anywhere. So I hate
Speaker 2: that feeling of spooking deer. When I head in for
Speaker 2: a morning hunt. You don't have that most of the time,
Speaker 2: when you go in for an evening hunt, you can
Speaker 2: be very tactical. You can see exactly what's happening, you
Speaker 2: can adjust if there's something different, and again, like I
Speaker 2: just enjoy getting out there, getting the tree, and then
Speaker 2: the hunt gets better every second. Right, it's full blown
Speaker 2: hope and anticipation all the way to the very end,
Speaker 2: because you know, the chances of seeing a deer, typically
Speaker 2: especially mature buck, get better as you get closer to dark.
Speaker 2: So it's just the slowly crescendoing hunt all the way
Speaker 2: until shooting light ends, and then if it didn't happen,
Speaker 2: it didn't happen, the hunt's done. The reverse is true
Speaker 2: for a morning hunt, right. Sometimes this depends on the
Speaker 2: time of year, but oftentimes the most deer movement is
Speaker 2: going to be right there at the break of daylight.
Speaker 2: And then if it doesn't happen that first hour or two,
Speaker 2: then you're starting to think, eh, you know, I'll stick
Speaker 2: it out for another couple hours, but there's probably not
Speaker 2: going to be as much movement. Right, it's going down.
Speaker 2: Your chances, your odds of success are going down as
Speaker 2: the morning progresses. Now, that might not be true during
Speaker 2: the rut, right, there's usually that window in the late morning,
Speaker 2: midday when you might get some of these bucks cruising again.
Speaker 2: But still, you know, it just seems to be that
Speaker 2: you are decelerating on morning hunts while you are accelerating
Speaker 2: and crescendoing up during an evening hunt towards like that
Speaker 2: peak of excitement. So for those reasons, I just kind of,
Speaker 2: if I had to pick, would say I prefer the
Speaker 2: evening hunt. Not to say I don't like seeing the
Speaker 2: woods wake up in the morning. That is really nice,
Speaker 2: but that's my first take. Now. I will also add, though,
Speaker 2: there's certain times of year when certain hunts just might
Speaker 2: be more effective on average, So again these are not rules.
Speaker 2: There are times that this isn't true, But on average,
Speaker 2: I would say evening hunts tend to be a little
Speaker 2: bit higher odds during that early season time period, mid
Speaker 2: season time period, right, there's just gonna be more movement
Speaker 2: during those last hour of daylight than you might get
Speaker 2: in the morning. Sometimes. It's also, as I just described,
Speaker 2: it's harder to get in for morning hunt without spooking stuff. Now,
Speaker 2: when you fast forward into the rut time periods, that's
Speaker 2: when those morning hunts become very, very effective, very worth
Speaker 2: waking up early for You're gonna get more movement for
Speaker 2: several hours, if not only three, four five hours in
Speaker 2: those morning hunts because deer are cruising all over the place.
Speaker 2: It's colder for longer in the morning, so you're gonna
Speaker 2: have a better chance of comfortable weather for deer to
Speaker 2: be traveling a lot. You know, that's when I tend
Speaker 2: to see a lot of that chasing cruising. Real ruddy
Speaker 2: stuff just often happens on those cold morning hunts. So
Speaker 2: love mornings during the rut. But if I had to pick,
Speaker 2: give me an evening for most of the year, and
Speaker 2: if I don't have to pick, I'll take it all.
Speaker 2: All right, there's one more dumb uh, what are your
Speaker 2: highest recommended books about white tails? All right? You know
Speaker 2: I like books, so you're tossing me questions related to that.
Speaker 2: I'll pitch that podcast we did about a month ago.
Speaker 2: I think that was titled the twelve Best Books for
Speaker 2: Hunters and Anglers or something like that. Go and listen
Speaker 2: to that for some of our high level hunting and
Speaker 2: fishing recommendations, but whitetail specific A couple come to mind,
Speaker 2: Whitetail Access by Chris Eberhart. That's one to talk about
Speaker 2: in that one. That's a book that details the story
Speaker 2: of one person's season, Chris Eberhart's season living out of
Speaker 2: his minivan, traveling across the country, doing DIY hunts on
Speaker 2: public land or private land. He got permission on. You
Speaker 2: get to hear his fun story of all these hunts,
Speaker 2: and then he teaches you along the way how he hunts,
Speaker 2: how he makes his decisions. There's diagrams breaking down his
Speaker 2: hunt setups. It's great. Another one I would suggest is
Speaker 2: called Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon. This is one
Speaker 2: of the best books about understanding how to read maps,
Speaker 2: read aerial and top on maps and make predictions on
Speaker 2: how deer will use terrain based on that. So based
Speaker 2: on topography like the slopes, ups and downs of the land,
Speaker 2: and based on cover, there are certain things you can
Speaker 2: predict about how deer will use the land. And that
Speaker 2: is an incredible starting point when you're trying to think
Speaker 2: about where to set up, how to set up, how
Speaker 2: to move through a landscape. Being able to read a
Speaker 2: map and get you know, fifty sixty percent of the
Speaker 2: information you need right out the gate is huge, and
Speaker 2: mapping trophy Bucks is one of the best books for that.
Speaker 2: Another one that does take maps into accounts that's good
Speaker 2: is a book by Bill Winky. I don't have this
Speaker 2: one written down. Let me see if I can figure
Speaker 2: it out. It's something about creeks, Bill Winky, Ditches and creaks.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna google this. Be patient with me, okay. It
Speaker 2: is Peterson's Bow Hunting Creaks. Peterson's Bow Hunting Creaks and
Speaker 2: Ditches book and DVD combo in the Trophy Terrain series
Speaker 2: Volume one. I don't think they ever came out with
Speaker 2: a volume two, three, or four or anything. I wish
Speaker 2: they had because this was a really good This is
Speaker 2: a really good book. But that one's by Bill Winky
Speaker 2: suggest that as well. Let's see here. Another one would
Speaker 2: be Precision bow Hunting. That's by John Eberheart. Again talked
Speaker 2: about this in the past, but this is a book
Speaker 2: that was instrumental in me taking that big step up
Speaker 2: from being just like a deer hunter to being a
Speaker 2: deer hunter who could target three and a half or
Speaker 2: older bucks three and a half year old or older bucks.
Speaker 2: The biggest thing I took away from this book, and
Speaker 2: that I think John does a great job of drilling
Speaker 2: in this read is the importance of thinking about how
Speaker 2: you hunt and how that should change throughout the calendar year.
Speaker 2: There are different things that you should be doing at
Speaker 2: different parts of the year, both with off season prep
Speaker 2: and actual in season strategy. That's something I did not
Speaker 2: understand back in two thousand and five or two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight, But once I read this book, I very
Speaker 2: quickly realized that my tactics on my approach has to
Speaker 2: shift throughout the year as deer behavior changes. And John
Speaker 2: drills at home in this one. So precision bow hunting
Speaker 2: is a good one. Another one I really like is
Speaker 2: called Big Bucks Secrets by Steve Bartilla. He does a
Speaker 2: great job of breaking down deer behavior, deer movement hunting
Speaker 2: strategies and showcases this with really detailed stories and maps.
Speaker 2: The diagram allot of this out so really suggests Big
Speaker 2: Buck Secrets by Bartilla. So there's some white tail specific recommendations.
Speaker 2: Next up, will we ever see another season of One
Speaker 2: Week in November? So if you're not familiar, this is
Speaker 2: a show we produce for Meat Eater. It's over there
Speaker 2: on the mediater YouTube channel. This had myself, Spencer Newharth,
Speaker 2: Tony Peterson, Klay Newcomb, and for the second year, Giannis
Speaker 2: bettel Us and you got to foul along with seven
Speaker 2: days of rut hunting. You get to see each of
Speaker 2: our days, so one episode equals to one day, and
Speaker 2: then you're bouncing back and forth between the four or
Speaker 2: five of us seeing how we are experiencing the rut
Speaker 2: in different locations across the country. And man, it was
Speaker 2: a fun show to do. I still love the concept
Speaker 2: I think it was. I think it turned out pretty
Speaker 2: darn well. It was like a digital deer camp in
Speaker 2: a way because we were spread out across the country,
Speaker 2: but the four or five of us stayed in touch
Speaker 2: the whole time with group texts and phone calls and facetimes,
Speaker 2: so we got to kind of share those seven days
Speaker 2: despite us being in different locations. So all that's a
Speaker 2: long winded way of saying though that I do not
Speaker 2: think that show is coming back. I think you never know,
Speaker 2: never say never. But I think that was a two
Speaker 2: season run, and it seems like now we're kind of
Speaker 2: getting away from these series and we're moving more towards
Speaker 2: kind of random one off films and hunts that kind
Speaker 2: of can be very diverse rather than a specific themed
Speaker 2: run for six seven eight episodes. So as of now
Speaker 2: at least no plans for more one week in November.
Speaker 2: But if you make a lot of noise about it
Speaker 2: and you let folks that needed to know that you
Speaker 2: enjoyed that, maybe maybe it'll happen again. Okay, next question,
Speaker 2: speaking of plans, what states are you planning to hunt
Speaker 2: this coming year? I am going to be doing a
Speaker 2: hunt in Alaska for blacktail deer. I am going to
Speaker 2: be hunting Kentucky public land. I am going to be
Speaker 2: hunting locally in Michigan, and if I draw in Iowa,
Speaker 2: I'll be hunting Iowa again this year. That'll be a
Speaker 2: redemption tour hopefully. I had two bummer experiences in the
Speaker 2: state of Iowa the last two times I went back
Speaker 2: in like two thousand and fifteen and then again in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. I think it was so I need
Speaker 2: to I need to make it right. So hoping I
Speaker 2: get another chance this year, but TBD on that one. Okay,
Speaker 2: how about my best recommendation to optimize your approach to
Speaker 2: scoring deer antlers? All? Right? Scoring deer antlers how do
Speaker 2: you do it the best? How do you optimize your approach?
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you an answer that maybe is
Speaker 2: not what you were asking for. But here's my take.
Speaker 2: Don't take it too serious. Don't get too in the
Speaker 2: weeds on perfectly handling your tape and getting every little
Speaker 2: one eighth inch here and there and making sure everything
Speaker 2: is just perfect on your score sheet. YadA YadA, YadA YadA.
Speaker 2: That kind of stuff, in my opinion, is overblown, It
Speaker 2: is over emphasized. It is talked about too much today
Speaker 2: in our hunting culture because if we value our deer
Speaker 2: just because of how much they score, we are we
Speaker 2: are you selling them short. We're selling the deer short,
Speaker 2: We're selling the experience short, We're selling what hunting is short.
Speaker 2: Tony and I have you know, we've covered this extensively
Speaker 2: in the past. We talked about this a lot during
Speaker 2: our Hunting Culture series earlier this year. But I'll just
Speaker 2: reemphasize the fact that if if you are getting all
Speaker 2: worked up about score, you're missing the point. There are
Speaker 2: bigger things at play here than whether your buck made
Speaker 2: it over the Boon and Crockett minimum or not, or
Speaker 2: whether your one point fifty was bigger than your buddies
Speaker 2: one forty nine? Who cares? These are incredible animals, These
Speaker 2: are incredible experiences we've got out there. We've got this
Speaker 2: unbelievable opportunity to have creators like this out there to
Speaker 2: hunt and to let a number attached to that deer
Speaker 2: arbitrarily impact how you feel about that hunt, or how
Speaker 2: you feel about that deer, or how you value that deer,
Speaker 2: or whether you think that such and such hunter is
Speaker 2: better than such and such hunter. Who the hell cares,
Speaker 2: Let's stop with that stuff. I personally look at score
Speaker 2: is a is a way to just kind of better
Speaker 2: understand a deer, right, you know, when me and my
Speaker 2: buddies are talking and you know it's it's it's okay
Speaker 2: to score your dear. Don't get me wrong, don't feel bad.
Speaker 2: If you want to do this, that's great. I'm just
Speaker 2: I just don't want you to get too far down
Speaker 2: the wormhole because I've done it myself, I guess, is
Speaker 2: what I'm getting at, Right, I have had a deer
Speaker 2: that I thought was gonna be one hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: inch plus, Dear, I thought I killed a boone and
Speaker 2: krock a buck. Finally I killed a quote unquote booner
Speaker 2: and then I missed it by a few inches, and
Speaker 2: I was disappointed. And then I realized the next day
Speaker 2: or whenever, it was like, that's so stupid. I just
Speaker 2: killed the biggest buck of my life. I killed this
Speaker 2: deer that was just had obsessed I was obsessed. It
Speaker 2: consumed me. It seems so beyond possibility. I never thought
Speaker 2: a deer like this could possibly be something I would
Speaker 2: hunt here in Michigan, and then I got to, and
Speaker 2: I got to have these incredible encounters, and somehow, by
Speaker 2: the grace of God or a miracle or whatever, the
Speaker 2: stars aligned and I got a shot, and I killed
Speaker 2: this deer, and I let a stupid thing like inches
Speaker 2: in symmetry, YadA, YadA, YadA impact how I felt about it.
Speaker 2: And I told myself after that to never let that
Speaker 2: happen again. And so that's just my word of warning
Speaker 2: and my story to share with you now. As I
Speaker 2: was just about to get into I will still rough
Speaker 2: score a deer, and I'll still toss around scores that
Speaker 2: I'm talking with my friends, because it just helps you
Speaker 2: get an idea, like a mental picture of a deer
Speaker 2: like when I'm telling a story and I'm like, oh man,
Speaker 2: this incredible eight point buck came through and it was
Speaker 2: just mind blowing. And then my buddy might be like,
Speaker 2: oh well, I mean, is this like one hundred and
Speaker 2: twenty class eight or is this like one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy class eight? And that kind of thing helps you illustrate,
Speaker 2: It helps you paint a mental picture, and I personally
Speaker 2: have no problem with that, and I will rough tape
Speaker 2: my deer just out of curiosity and to help, you know,
Speaker 2: illustrate that picture when I'm chatting with folks about it.
Speaker 2: But no longer am I going to value my deer.
Speaker 2: No longer am I going to let that in some
Speaker 2: way influence how I value that deer. Is what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to get that because of an antlers score. Now,
Speaker 2: we did have a really interesting chat, and I would
Speaker 2: suggest you listen to this. During that Hunting Culture series,
Speaker 2: we chatted with some folks from Boone and Crockett and
Speaker 2: Pope and Young Club about scoring deer and about how
Speaker 2: it all started as a way to you know, collect
Speaker 2: scientific data that can help us make management decisions. And
Speaker 2: I think there's something very cool about scoring your deer
Speaker 2: and submitting it to the record books for that reason.
Speaker 2: So if you want to help build a database of
Speaker 2: deer information for future management, by all means, go ahead,
Speaker 2: do that kind of thing, submit it. I think that's great.
Speaker 2: My hope, though, is just that we don't get so
Speaker 2: worked up in it, in valuing ourselves as hunters or
Speaker 2: valuing the deer by that number. So that's that's my take.
Speaker 2: That's how I would optimize scoring deer would be to
Speaker 2: devalue it from that perspective. All right, let's move on
Speaker 2: to the next question. Best advice for balancing family and
Speaker 2: home life during hunting season? All right, man, that's something
Speaker 2: that I've struggled with and talked about for all time.
Speaker 2: As far as long as I've had this podcast, this
Speaker 2: has been something we've discussed. Me and Dan Johnson have
Speaker 2: talked about it, Me and Tony have talked about it,
Speaker 2: Me and Clay have talked about it. A lot of folks.
Speaker 2: And this is a huge challenge and a very important
Speaker 2: thing to think about because we love hunting and we
Speaker 2: want to take it seriously, and we want to be
Speaker 2: as successful as we possibly can, and we want to
Speaker 2: take advantage of these windows of time when there is
Speaker 2: that extra special chance of being successful. And I have
Speaker 2: long championed the value of hard work and putting in
Speaker 2: the time and pushing through adversity and really committing to
Speaker 2: whatever your goals are. So all of those things are
Speaker 2: well and good and important. But and I've learned this
Speaker 2: through my own experience too, none of that stuff matters
Speaker 2: if the family stuff isn't right first right, Nothing is
Speaker 2: more important than that, in my opinion. And you don't
Speaker 2: want to someday look back on your life and regret
Speaker 2: how you allocated your time. If you put a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of time towards hunting and you killed a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of big bucks, but you lost your marriage, or
Speaker 2: your relationship with your children suffered, or your relationship with
Speaker 2: your mom or dad, or siblings or your friends, if
Speaker 2: any of that suffers because of the time you put
Speaker 2: into hunting. As far as I'm concerned, none of that
Speaker 2: stuff matters. You could have all the bucks in the wall,
Speaker 2: you could be the quote unquote best deer hunter in
Speaker 2: the world. But if you don't have your family stuff right,
Speaker 2: if you don't have your home life right, it's all
Speaker 2: a waste of time and I'll also tell you that,
Speaker 2: at least from my experience, your enjoyment of your hunting
Speaker 2: goes down significantly if you are stressing about that stuff
Speaker 2: because you know it's not quite right. So I can
Speaker 2: tell you I've had times where I knew I'm on
Speaker 2: a hunting trip and I know my wife is irritated
Speaker 2: with me because I've gone too hard, or I've gone
Speaker 2: too far, or I've taken too many days away. Whenever,
Speaker 2: you know when that's happening, even if she doesn't say it,
Speaker 2: or even if your significant other or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes we know, even if they're not explicitly saying, you
Speaker 2: can feel it right, there's something underneath the surface going on.
Speaker 2: You can feel it when your balance is out a whack.
Speaker 2: And when you feel that way, at least I will
Speaker 2: feel differently when I'm in the field. I will have
Speaker 2: that tightness, that something that just doesn't feel right in me,
Speaker 2: and that makes me stress out, and that makes me,
Speaker 2: you know, not enjoy the hunt, not focus as much
Speaker 2: on the hunt, feel bad, feel guilty, all of those
Speaker 2: things when you're hunting, and that is taken away from
Speaker 2: your enjoyment, and it's making you less effective as a
Speaker 2: hunter too, so it's a lose lose across the board.
Speaker 2: So my suggestion is to be a really good listener,
Speaker 2: to try to be more selfless and less selfish, and
Speaker 2: all these things are easier said than done for people
Speaker 2: like you and me because we are addicted to this stuff.
Speaker 2: We are diehards about this stuff, and I have been
Speaker 2: guilty of getting it wrong. So I'm telling you this
Speaker 2: from my own mistakes and as someone who fully recognizes
Speaker 2: that this is easier than done, but we got to
Speaker 2: try to. At least in my experience, I found that
Speaker 2: number one talking about plans well ahead of time so
Speaker 2: that expectations are set properly and making this like a
Speaker 2: two way conversation. So this isn't like, Hey, I'm going
Speaker 2: to be gone for three weeks at this time period
Speaker 2: and two weeks at this time period, and I don't
Speaker 2: care what you think. That does not go well in
Speaker 2: my experience. What does go well is, Hey, I'm hoping
Speaker 2: to do this hunt and this hunt, can we talk
Speaker 2: about our schedules and talk about when it might work out?
Speaker 2: And here's the windows I'm hoping to do it. What
Speaker 2: do you have going on with your time? How are
Speaker 2: you feeling about things, how can we make sure that
Speaker 2: this is something that's going to work okay for our
Speaker 2: family and work for my hunting goals, and you know,
Speaker 2: and being open to maybe your hunting goals having to
Speaker 2: be you know, not top priority and having to take
Speaker 2: a backseat to some other family obligations or other things
Speaker 2: going on. And then going back to then listening, like
Speaker 2: listening to your significant other, or listening to your kids
Speaker 2: if they are talking about how much they miss you
Speaker 2: or how they don't understand why you're gone all the time,
Speaker 2: or listening to your wife or husband and picking up
Speaker 2: on the fact that man, they're reaching a stress level
Speaker 2: or they're reaching a point where this has gone too far.
Speaker 2: You have to be present enough to read that situation
Speaker 2: and then set your huntings aside. At least for me,
Speaker 2: I've learned like none of the stuff matters in the
Speaker 2: long run, whether or not I kill a big deer,
Speaker 2: whether or not I fill my tags. In the moment,
Speaker 2: I can make myself think that this matters a whole
Speaker 2: heck of a lot, And and and it does matter
Speaker 2: in a certain way. It's it's not only my past time,
Speaker 2: it's also my career. So There's an argument to be
Speaker 2: made that it should matter a lot, but in the end,
Speaker 2: when it comes right down to it, it doesn't matter
Speaker 2: at all compared to my wife and my children and
Speaker 2: my other family members that matter a whole hell of
Speaker 2: a lot. If I can't get that right, who cares
Speaker 2: what I have on the wall. And so I've been
Speaker 2: trying really hard in recent years to make sure to
Speaker 2: get that balance right because everything else comes from that.
Speaker 2: Having those core relationships, having that family stuff right leads
Speaker 2: to all the other good things in life. When it
Speaker 2: comes right down to it, money, status, fame, big deer,
Speaker 2: it is all ancillary compared to that. So get that right,
Speaker 2: then all the rest will be a whole lot more fun. Right.
Speaker 2: Running question, when is your first or next Ultra marathon?
Speaker 2: So I've been talking about running a bit this year,
Speaker 2: and I do think coming out of my chat a
Speaker 2: couple weeks ago with Weston about how running can make
Speaker 2: you a better hunter, he encouraged me, and my buddy
Speaker 2: Yannis has been encouraging me, and I've been thinking a lot,
Speaker 2: and I do think I'm going to try my first
Speaker 2: Ultra next year, which would probably be a fifty K.
Speaker 2: That would be like the first step of an ultra
Speaker 2: marathon that I think I could try to tackle, so
Speaker 2: tentatively strongly considering trying to do a fifty k in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. We'll see. Uh, what is a book?
Speaker 2: Back to books? What's a book that you reread again
Speaker 2: and again? All right, here's two books that are not
Speaker 2: hunting specific, but they are very, very applicable to hunting
Speaker 2: and hunting goals and dealing with the challenges of hunting.
Speaker 2: So even if you at first glance are going to
Speaker 2: think this doesn't have anything to do with you, I'm
Speaker 2: telling you these will help make you a better hunter.
Speaker 2: Number one is The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield.
Speaker 2: This is a book that I gift to probably more
Speaker 2: people than any other, and it's a book I'd come
Speaker 2: back to more than any other, and it's all about
Speaker 2: breaking through. Resistance is the concept that Stephen discusses in
Speaker 2: this book. It's this inner voice in your head. It's
Speaker 2: this thing that can keeps you from doing the stuff
Speaker 2: you know you should. It's the reluctance to follow through
Speaker 2: on the to do list. It's the procrastination that leers
Speaker 2: up and keeps you from shooting your bow. When you should,
Speaker 2: or getting out there and doing the work on the
Speaker 2: farm when you should. It's that whisper in your voice
Speaker 2: that makes you want to sleep in when you're super
Speaker 2: tired on November third, or whatever it is. It's all
Speaker 2: of our worst habits, our worst inclinations that are natural
Speaker 2: in the human state. It's part of being human. But
Speaker 2: it's also that thing you've got to break through if
Speaker 2: you want to achieve your goals, whether that be in business,
Speaker 2: in an artistic pursuit, in a creative pursuit, or in
Speaker 2: hunting or fishing. So this is a terrific book. Now
Speaker 2: it's meant mostly originally for creatives people writing a book
Speaker 2: or doing a painting, or starting a business, or trying
Speaker 2: to create new habits, healthy habits, or running a marathon
Speaker 2: or something like that. This book can address all that
Speaker 2: more highly suggested The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield.
Speaker 2: Another one is called The Obstacles the Way by Ryan Holliday,
Speaker 2: The Timeless Art of Turning Trials into Triumph. This book
Speaker 2: uses ancient lessons, Stoic philosophy, and other traditional knowledge and
Speaker 2: wisdom and applies them to things happening in the present
Speaker 2: day with a whole bunch of stories about how different
Speaker 2: people across time and history have overcome adversity, overcome obstacles,
Speaker 2: and found ways to harness those challenges to achieve their goals.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine anything more applicable to chasing white tailed
Speaker 2: deer or hunting anything? Definitely, two books that I reread
Speaker 2: often and would suggest to anybody out there. All right,
Speaker 2: let's get to something a little bit different. Here's one
Speaker 2: that's kind of a doozy, and I'm gonna pull it
Speaker 2: up on Instagram because it's a long question. But here's
Speaker 2: the thing. This is a question that is a fair question,
Speaker 2: and I don't have a great answer to it, but
Speaker 2: I'm just going to think out loud. I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk to you about some of the different things I
Speaker 2: think about this, and I want to preface by saying
Speaker 2: I don't have the answer. I don't know the right
Speaker 2: answer to this question, but it is something I'm personally
Speaker 2: wrestling with a lot and thinking about a lot and
Speaker 2: trying to be really thoughtful about how I approaches. So
Speaker 2: here's the question. Do you believe that you know they're
Speaker 2: they're putting a name on this, but it's not just
Speaker 2: this person, but this is this person has brought this
Speaker 2: up as well as many other people. But do you
Speaker 2: believe that matt Ronella has some valuable arguments in regards
Speaker 2: to modern day market hunting, that being content around killing animals.
Speaker 2: So the idea here is like social media and creating
Speaker 2: media around hunting is in some kind of way analogous
Speaker 2: to market hunting back from one hundred and fifty years
Speaker 2: ago when people killed deer to make money from it.
Speaker 2: The argument is that something similar is happening by people
Speaker 2: creating media around hunting. So he continues content around killing
Speaker 2: animals generates far more money than the sale of meat
Speaker 2: and hide could ever have lots of nuance and dialogue
Speaker 2: between the viewpoints, but I see a lot of platforms
Speaker 2: shying away from this topic. By what metric do we
Speaker 2: gauge if we're having a positive or negative effect on
Speaker 2: wildlife with loss of opportunity and hunting rights running rampant
Speaker 2: around America right now? It leaves me really wondering what
Speaker 2: we're doing. And I'll say, the person who posed this
Speaker 2: question is a hunting media creator himself. Okay, So, first
Speaker 2: and foremost, I do not think that our current situation
Speaker 2: is in any way comparable to the impact the negative
Speaker 2: impact of market hunting, because market hunting in the you know,
Speaker 2: several hundred years ago was making money from animals, right
Speaker 2: where you could say that hunting media folks like myself
Speaker 2: make money from hunting animals and killing animals, as they
Speaker 2: did during the market hunting era. But the rate of destruction,
Speaker 2: the rate of unregulated, untempered mass death of wildlife was unprecedented.
Speaker 2: So first and foremost, let's let's make a clear delineation there.
Speaker 2: Like market hunting led to the near extirpation of white
Speaker 2: tailed deer, elk, buffalo antelope. I'm talking like almost gone,
Speaker 2: like hundreds of individuals, where all that was left of
Speaker 2: the buffalo population from a high of thirty to sixty million. Okay,
Speaker 2: So decimated wildlife populations were the result of market hunting.
Speaker 2: Today we are talking about the golden days for white
Speaker 2: tailed deer populations, the golden days for elk populations in
Speaker 2: the Rocky West, in many cases, the golden days for
Speaker 2: a lot of big game animals. So we're not negatively
Speaker 2: impacting wildlife populations with hunting media. The argument, though, could
Speaker 2: be made that hunting media, you know it does we
Speaker 2: do profit from that, and you can't deny that, and
Speaker 2: you can't help but admit that. Because of that, it
Speaker 2: comes with a huge obligation. And the way I look
Speaker 2: at it is that if I'm going to profit from
Speaker 2: wildlife and the hunting of wildlife, that I then am
Speaker 2: obligated to give back ten x. This is something that
Speaker 2: folks in the eighteen Hunters did not do. But this
Speaker 2: is something that I think that myself and a lot
Speaker 2: of people who care a lot about the resource do not.
Speaker 2: Everybody in the hunting media does this. I can point
Speaker 2: to a lot of examples of folks in the hunting
Speaker 2: media that I personally am not a huge fan of
Speaker 2: how they go about things. I'm not the kind of
Speaker 2: person who's going to throw people under the bus and
Speaker 2: name names, because we all are imperfect in our own ways.
Speaker 2: I made mistakes too, so I get that. But I'm
Speaker 2: going to try to do things in such a way
Speaker 2: that I'm making a net positive difference and not a
Speaker 2: net negative difference. And the way I try to do
Speaker 2: that is several ways. Number One, I think the hunting
Speaker 2: media has an opportunity to do good or bad when
Speaker 2: it comes to the future of hunting based on how
Speaker 2: we portray hunting. Right, So if the like, okay, fact
Speaker 2: number one hunters in America are a minority, right, there's
Speaker 2: something like three or four percent of the American public hunts,
Speaker 2: that means there's something like ninety six percent of the
Speaker 2: American public does not hunt. We live in a democracy,
Speaker 2: change legislation, all that stuff happens by way of voting
Speaker 2: in a government such as that we have. So if
Speaker 2: we lose the public support, we have the opportunity the
Speaker 2: risk of losing our privilege of hunting. That's something that
Speaker 2: you know, has happened more and more. We're seeing, you know,
Speaker 2: in the last year or two more and more times
Speaker 2: where states are putting these ballot initiatives up there, where
Speaker 2: people are voting on whether or not there should be
Speaker 2: a black bear season or mountain lion hunting or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. So we're seeing in real time the risk
Speaker 2: of hunting opportunities being taken away. And I would say
Speaker 2: a big part of that is because of the public
Speaker 2: perception of hunting, of people thinking, well, you know, why
Speaker 2: does someone need to kill a black bear? Or hey,
Speaker 2: I saw that cease little lion thing where this guy
Speaker 2: killed this lion and it seems like he's a bloodthirsty
Speaker 2: killer and he's in a jerk and they're not going
Speaker 2: to eat the meat. And why are these psychopaths killing
Speaker 2: this stuff for no good reason? That seems sick and twisted,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be a part of that.
Speaker 2: I don't support that. I'm voting against them. That's the
Speaker 2: kind of thing that happens when bad apples get the spotlight.
Speaker 2: So bad apples can show up on social media. It's
Speaker 2: just as random people, right, non media creators, just people.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. We are all media creators now,
Speaker 2: So that's a key thing to remember. Not just professional media,
Speaker 2: but anyone who has a social media account is a
Speaker 2: media creator. Whether you have ten followers or ten million followers,
Speaker 2: you are putting your life story narrative out there to
Speaker 2: people who can take that and run with it and
Speaker 2: interpret it. How are they like? So, I think there's
Speaker 2: a responsibility on every one of us, whether it's someone
Speaker 2: like me who makes a living in this world, or
Speaker 2: someone like you maybe who has one hundred people that
Speaker 2: follow you on Instagram or whatever it is, and you
Speaker 2: like to share your pictures and tell your stories and
Speaker 2: share your experiences. That's a very human thing to want
Speaker 2: to do. Humans have been telling hunting stories since day one,
Speaker 2: since we started hunting. That is a very natural thing
Speaker 2: to do, and it's silly to think that we shouldn't
Speaker 2: do that because it's very natural. No matter what your
Speaker 2: pursuit passion is, Like, we humans are going to talk
Speaker 2: about it and we want to hear stories too. That's
Speaker 2: why there is media around every different pursuit. There's media
Speaker 2: around surfing, there's media around pickleball, there's media around climbing,
Speaker 2: there's media around hula hooping, whatever it is. If there's
Speaker 2: something that people love, they're going to demand media to
Speaker 2: be created about it, teaching folks how to do it,
Speaker 2: inspiring them to do it in different ways, entertaining them.
Speaker 2: So that's gonna happen in hunting too. It is happening
Speaker 2: in hunting too, because there's demand because I want to
Speaker 2: see it, because I want to watch it, because I
Speaker 2: want to hear about it, because you want to watch it,
Speaker 2: see it, hear about it, because we love this stuff.
Speaker 2: So it's it's kind of silly to think that that's
Speaker 2: not going to be the case. So let's just face
Speaker 2: the facts. Like we are humans, we want to see
Speaker 2: this stuff here, this stuff, experience this stuff that is
Speaker 2: a truth, that's a reality. Now there's this opportunity for
Speaker 2: good and bad. Like I said, so, if we do
Speaker 2: this in the wrong way, whether we're professional media creators
Speaker 2: or just amateur social media users, if we portray hunting,
Speaker 2: if we share our hunting stories and experiences in such
Speaker 2: a way that is portrayed exceptionally negatively, if we are
Speaker 2: thoughtless about how we talk about these things, if we
Speaker 2: are crude in how we portray this, if we don't
Speaker 2: think about the outside world when we share a picture
Speaker 2: or a story or whatever. There are real negative consequences
Speaker 2: that are possible because you just need one bad apple
Speaker 2: to poison a very large area. Right, If we have
Speaker 2: one c civil line incident where a bad story gets
Speaker 2: out there and it blows up in the mainstream media
Speaker 2: and across the Internet, all of a sudden, you get
Speaker 2: a lot of people that feel really negatively about hunters,
Speaker 2: and that can lead to bad things happening. So there's
Speaker 2: an obligation for me, as a professional media creator in
Speaker 2: the space and everybody else who does that professionally. I
Speaker 2: think there is a responsibility, in an obligation to do
Speaker 2: it in a very careful, thoughtful, respectful way. If we
Speaker 2: are going to hunt for animals, if we are going
Speaker 2: to take lives, and we're going to share those stories,
Speaker 2: you better take it seriously. You better do it respectfully, thoughtfully,
Speaker 2: and provide context for why we do this, why we hunt,
Speaker 2: why hunting is so important, Why and how it provides
Speaker 2: for our families and our communities, Why these traditions have
Speaker 2: enriched human beings for thousands and thousands of years. We
Speaker 2: need to make sure we tell the full story about
Speaker 2: how it's not just pulling a trigger, but it's stewarding
Speaker 2: these landscapes and these animals. It's giving back to these resources,
Speaker 2: it's teaching other people, it's sharing the meat with our
Speaker 2: friends and family and those in need. It is all
Speaker 2: of these experiences in the wild, connecting with the natural world,
Speaker 2: connecting with nature. There's so many things. There's so much
Speaker 2: more than a dead animal on the ground. Right. You
Speaker 2: know this, if you listen to this podcast, you know
Speaker 2: this deep in your bones. Ninety six percent of America
Speaker 2: does not. So we have a risk and we have
Speaker 2: an opportunity for those of us that have any kind
Speaker 2: of media platform. So if you have an Instagram account
Speaker 2: or a TikTok or a YouTube channel, whether you make
Speaker 2: money from or not, whether you are fourteen or forty seven.
Speaker 2: We can do this thoughtlessly and carelessly and put stuff
Speaker 2: out there that makes hunting look really bad and that
Speaker 2: can lead to these losses of opportunity down the road.
Speaker 2: Or you can do it carefully, thoughtfully and with positive
Speaker 2: intent and help educate people and inspire people and bring
Speaker 2: the broader public into this community and understand that maybe
Speaker 2: they don't want to do it, but they can at
Speaker 2: least see the value and why and how we can
Speaker 2: do this in a regulated, careful, respectful, sustainable way. So
Speaker 2: I view my role in this as someone who does
Speaker 2: have a platform who does reach a lot of people,
Speaker 2: as as an opportunity. I can create this media in
Speaker 2: such a way, and I try really hard to create
Speaker 2: my media in such a way that it is a
Speaker 2: ray of light, that it is a shining beacon of
Speaker 2: positivity for hunting, that somebody can take my content and
Speaker 2: show it to anyone across America, and if they give
Speaker 2: it a couple minutes of time, and if they give
Speaker 2: it an open mind, they might come away from it
Speaker 2: and say, hey, all right, it's not for me maybe,
Speaker 2: but I can understand why Mark might want to do this,
Speaker 2: or I appreciate his perspective, or I learned something new,
Speaker 2: or I think that's pretty cool that he feeds his
Speaker 2: family that way. That's how I look at it, right,
Speaker 2: Nothing positive like that could come from the market hunting
Speaker 2: situation two hundred years ago. So first and foremost, we
Speaker 2: have the opportunity and a risk. We have to take
Speaker 2: that seriously. Secondly, I do think that, you know, we
Speaker 2: have to be really careful about how we do things
Speaker 2: on a different way. Right, If you create media of
Speaker 2: any kind, you have the opportunity to spot burn places
Speaker 2: and put too much pressure in certain locations. That's increasingly
Speaker 2: a huge downside to media around hunting because we are
Speaker 2: putting too much human pressure on certain landscapes as impacting
Speaker 2: wildlife populations. We got to not do that. We need
Speaker 2: to stop sharing specific locations. We need to be very
Speaker 2: careful because we all deserve access to wildlife and public
Speaker 2: lands in different places. But at the same time, we
Speaker 2: need to be careful about how we apply that, and
Speaker 2: we also need to be I think, very aware of
Speaker 2: making sure that the number one priority is making sure
Speaker 2: we have healthy wildlife population and healthy wild public landscapes
Speaker 2: or private landscapes, whatever it is. And so that brings
Speaker 2: me to the second thing. I think there is an
Speaker 2: obligation that I feel, and that I would suggest anyone
Speaker 2: who hunts and fishes should feel as well. But especially
Speaker 2: if you do any kind of media, not only do
Speaker 2: we have an obligation to talk about these things and
Speaker 2: show these things carefully and positively, but you also really
Speaker 2: need to make a lot of deposits into the bank.
Speaker 2: So by that, I mean we need to give back
Speaker 2: tremendously with our time, with our voice, with our energy,
Speaker 2: with our resources, with our platform, and making sure that
Speaker 2: we are putting in more positive, more good, to make
Speaker 2: sure that we have deer hunting opportunities or fishing opportunities,
Speaker 2: to make sure that we have public lands, to make
Speaker 2: sure that there are access opportunities, to make sure that
Speaker 2: we have healthy wildlife populations, and to prioritize those things
Speaker 2: over our own enjoyment, over our own personal success killing
Speaker 2: a big deer or whatever it is. So, if ever
Speaker 2: I found out that something I was doing was going
Speaker 2: to negatively impact the long term future for white tailed
Speaker 2: deer or turkeys or whatever it is, I would have
Speaker 2: to change my ways. I'd have to seriously look at
Speaker 2: what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, and make
Speaker 2: sure that I can sleep well at night, because I
Speaker 2: am dead set on a mission of making sure that
Speaker 2: I can, in some way positively contribute to a better
Speaker 2: future for hunting, fishing, wildlife and wild places. And I
Speaker 2: think just about anybody out there who hunts and fish
Speaker 2: has probably's got some part of you, some whispering voice
Speaker 2: in the back of your mind that knows and feels
Speaker 2: the same way. Because we have gotten so much from
Speaker 2: these things. We've benefited so greatly, and so it's on
Speaker 2: us to make sure that we think carefully about what
Speaker 2: we're doing and how we're doing, and making sure that
Speaker 2: we're doing more good, significantly more good than bad. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: do I think about the impact of media and the
Speaker 2: commoditization of wildlife in the impacts of what we're doing
Speaker 2: and creating. Yes. Do I think about it carefully and
Speaker 2: have real debates about this inside my own mind. Yes?
Speaker 2: Do I take it seriously? Yes? But in the end,
Speaker 2: do I think that the net positive of what I
Speaker 2: can do outweighs any negative outcome than the answer is
Speaker 2: yes as well, because I believe I have an opper
Speaker 2: to as I said, portray hunting in a positive way
Speaker 2: hopefully inspire and educate folks to do so themselves. I
Speaker 2: have an opportunity to hopefully do real tangible good for
Speaker 2: the resource by volunteering my time like I'm doing with
Speaker 2: the Working for Wildlife tour, by hopefully helping other people
Speaker 2: find ways to do that, or how to use your
Speaker 2: voice in a positive way to influence positive political change
Speaker 2: for wildlife and wild places. So we have all those
Speaker 2: types of opportunities. I think. You know, there's there's a
Speaker 2: million different ways you can dissect this and go into this,
Speaker 2: but in the end, I think that we have opportunities
Speaker 2: for good that keep me waking up in the morning,
Speaker 2: fired up and charged up and excited to do this work,
Speaker 2: while at the same time very real downside that we
Speaker 2: need to mitigate. So my take on all this is
Speaker 2: that we need to all do some soul searching. Whether
Speaker 2: you create, media, consume media, hunt fish, what if you
Speaker 2: are involved in this honey and fishing thing, which is
Speaker 2: in many cases taking a life for our own enjoyment
Speaker 2: or use consumption, whatever it is, you better take it
Speaker 2: very seriously. You better think about it real hard. You
Speaker 2: better be very clear inside your own mind about why
Speaker 2: you do it and how you do it. And I
Speaker 2: think that is the litmus test that I apply when
Speaker 2: I think about this question. And I can sleep at
Speaker 2: night because I know I'm working very very hard to
Speaker 2: be a force for good and using the media I
Speaker 2: create for those means. At the same time, I promise
Speaker 2: you I will continue to assess this moving forward, think
Speaker 2: really hard and carefully as things change in this landscape,
Speaker 2: and if ever I feel like that's not the case
Speaker 2: anymore with the stuff I'm doing, I'll change my ways too.
Speaker 2: So I hope that answered your question. Like I said,
Speaker 2: I was thinking out loud there. I don't have it
Speaker 2: all figured out, but that's that's where my head's at
Speaker 2: the moment. Okay, we got another Instagram question and then
Speaker 2: maybe we'll wrap this up. All right, this one, all right,
Speaker 2: here we go. Whitetail hunting action can come up quick.
Speaker 2: So how do you quickly determine a deer you want
Speaker 2: to shoot without prior knowledge? Sometimes you only get fifteen
Speaker 2: seconds to decide whether you're going to take a shot
Speaker 2: or not. Also, do you set different goals or standards
Speaker 2: on different hunts based on location or public land versus
Speaker 2: private land or out of state, et cetera. All right,
Speaker 2: great tactical kind of question. Good way to wrap this up,
Speaker 2: and excuse me. I would say, yeah, you're right, it's
Speaker 2: hard to make those in the moment decisions. And I've
Speaker 2: got a couple thoughts on this. Number One, if I
Speaker 2: am in a location that I hunt consistently and I
Speaker 2: have like a full season hunt, this is where my
Speaker 2: trial camera is and all that kind of stuff come
Speaker 2: into play because it allows me to get a pretty
Speaker 2: good idea of what's in the area well ahead of time,
Speaker 2: and then I can think carefully about what my hunting
Speaker 2: goals are and what deer would meet that goal. Sometimes,
Speaker 2: like when I'm hunting locally in southern Michigan, I'm going
Speaker 2: to have a pretty steep on a pretty high bar
Speaker 2: as far as the deer I want to hunt, because
Speaker 2: I don't want to just on this in the season
Speaker 2: really quick, unless it's something that is a really really
Speaker 2: special situation, I suppose you could say. So usually I'll
Speaker 2: be after one particular deer, one or two particular deer,
Speaker 2: or if it's a new property where I don't have history,
Speaker 2: I might be after you know a certain age class deer.
Speaker 2: I like to challenge myself as a deer hunter. I
Speaker 2: like to force myself into experiencing everything that a deer
Speaker 2: hunt has to offer. And so in those cases where
Speaker 2: you have the time, I like to get to know
Speaker 2: a specific deer, or I like to pass on a
Speaker 2: lot of deer and see that full expression of a
Speaker 2: mature buck. So I will put cameras out in the summer.
Speaker 2: I will take quote unquote inventory of what's out there,
Speaker 2: and that will allow me to say, Okay, here's the
Speaker 2: ten different bucks I've got a picture of on this property.
Speaker 2: Let's look at them, and let's see how old do
Speaker 2: I think these deer are based on you know, on
Speaker 2: the hoof estimates. They're not one hundred percent accurate, but
Speaker 2: you can get a pretty decent idea. Like I'm very
Speaker 2: confident in saying, like, man, that's a four year old
Speaker 2: buck or older. You can usually tell, and that kind
Speaker 2: of deer is the kind of deer that for me personally,
Speaker 2: I get really jacked up about because that's that's a big, old,
Speaker 2: mature animal that's been around the block. That's a very smart,
Speaker 2: that's a very savvy critter. That deer will require me
Speaker 2: to be the best possible hunter I can be to
Speaker 2: get within thirty yards, to get an archery shot that animal,
Speaker 2: or to even get a shot with a shotgun or
Speaker 2: whatever the thing might be. That kind of deer requires
Speaker 2: me to hunt at my best, and I really enjoy
Speaker 2: hunting deer that required me to be at my best,
Speaker 2: to utilize all of my resources and lessons learned and experience,
Speaker 2: to use all my mental faculties. That's that's what I
Speaker 2: really enjoy about targeting mature bucks. So cameras pictures allow
Speaker 2: me to think about that, to make those decisions well
Speaker 2: ahead of time, because, like you said, it's hard in
Speaker 2: the moment. It's really hard if you've got ten seconds
Speaker 2: and you see a deer coming and it's got a
Speaker 2: huge set of antlers, or I don't know, it's got
Speaker 2: in between your antlers, or maybe you have no antler
Speaker 2: or age class you know that you're considering. You're just
Speaker 2: trying to say, well, is this uh, I don't know
Speaker 2: a state where there's antler point restrictions or anything like that,
Speaker 2: is this a legal deer? It's really nice to have
Speaker 2: those things figured out ahead of time, so that when
Speaker 2: you see that deer in the woods coming down fast,
Speaker 2: you recognize it right away. You're like, oh, that's that's
Speaker 2: the big eight, or oh that's that young looking ten pointer,
Speaker 2: or oh that's the one I would rather know right
Speaker 2: away based on those pictures then have to figure out
Speaker 2: in the moment. So in situations where you can, that's
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. And you know, when I'm hunting locally,
Speaker 2: usually I've got a clear idea like all right, there's
Speaker 2: this one deer, or these two deer, or you know,
Speaker 2: these are the three deer that I think are four
Speaker 2: or older or three year older or five, whatever the
Speaker 2: thing is. And that's how I make my decisions in
Speaker 2: those situations. Now, when I'm hunting at new property, or
Speaker 2: I'm hunting out of state on a short hunt, hunting
Speaker 2: public land something like that, where you just don't have
Speaker 2: the luxury of what I just described, then I'm usually
Speaker 2: going by like a feel. Honestly, I'm going by gut feel.
Speaker 2: I'm going by what kind of reaction does this animal
Speaker 2: elicit to me at the moment. And that's circumstantial too,
Speaker 2: Like there might be a trip where I'm hunting private
Speaker 2: land that I have permission on, or a piece maybe
Speaker 2: that at a lease or something. Now, maybe even if
Speaker 2: I only have seven days, I know the possibility that's
Speaker 2: out there. In that case, I might be a little
Speaker 2: bit more picky. I might be like, man, you know,
Speaker 2: usually before any trip, I'll kind of set some kind
Speaker 2: of goal, and I'll say, based on realistic circumstances, based
Speaker 2: on the time I have, based on what I know
Speaker 2: about this area, I think this would be a tough
Speaker 2: challenge but possibly achievable. And that's usually the kind of
Speaker 2: thing I set. So I'll go into like a hunt
Speaker 2: like I just describe, let's say a permission piece, but
Speaker 2: it's a seven day hunt and I have a hunt there,
Speaker 2: I'll probably go into that and say, man, like a
Speaker 2: three year old buck would probably pretty darn good, So
Speaker 2: that might be the thing. Or I might go into
Speaker 2: a hunt where I'm hunting public land in a brand
Speaker 2: new place that's a tough kind of habitat, and it
Speaker 2: might be any deer, like any buck or any dell
Speaker 2: would be a great accomplishment. And so in that case,
Speaker 2: again I'm going into the hunt knowing that I'm going
Speaker 2: to say, man, if I get a shot at any
Speaker 2: legal buck that would be amazing, And then I make
Speaker 2: that decision ahead of time, and then it's easier in
Speaker 2: the moment to decide. It's easier in the moment to
Speaker 2: act accordingly. Now, of course, these things change through a trip.
Speaker 2: There's some people who say that you shouldn't, you know,
Speaker 2: shoot something on the last day of the trip. You
Speaker 2: wouldn't shoot it the first day, or don't pass something
Speaker 2: on the first day that you would shoot at the end.
Speaker 2: That doesn't work for me. My standards, my goals, they
Speaker 2: do change throughout these short hunts or these traveling hunts.
Speaker 2: And I think that's okay because I don't need to
Speaker 2: hunt for anybody else but myself. I am hunting for
Speaker 2: my own experience, my own fulfillment, my own food, my
Speaker 2: own enjoyment. And if I would be pumped up on
Speaker 2: the last day of the hunt to shoot a smaller
Speaker 2: deer that I passed on the first day, fine, because
Speaker 2: on day one I wanted to enjoy that full experience.
Speaker 2: I wanted some more days hunting, and now on day
Speaker 2: seven I got all those great da as a hunting
Speaker 2: and if I haven't killed something yet, but I would
Speaker 2: like to bring some meat home or now that three
Speaker 2: year old buck man would be a heck of an
Speaker 2: accomplishment given what I know, what I've learned over these
Speaker 2: last seven days, then yeah, go for it. That's how
Speaker 2: I approach things. I go by feel. So I set
Speaker 2: a goal ahead of time so that I've got a
Speaker 2: starting point, and then I let myself have the flexibility
Speaker 2: throughout the hunt to adjust as needed, knowing that when
Speaker 2: it comes down to it, I'm gonna hunt my own hunt.
Speaker 2: And if in the moment this deer coming down the
Speaker 2: line gives me that feeling and it's got me fired
Speaker 2: up and my spidy senses are tangling and my juices
Speaker 2: are flowing, I'm going for it. And I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: feel bad, and I'm not going to care what anybody
Speaker 2: else thinks about it, and I'm not going to let
Speaker 2: somebody else's judgment of my decision making process or on
Speaker 2: what I put my tag on in any way influence
Speaker 2: my decisions, because I've been there, I've done that, and
Speaker 2: it's made me feel shitty and it's stupid. And hunting
Speaker 2: is something that is again going back to what we
Speaker 2: talked about earlier, it is so serious. It is so
Speaker 2: deeply fulfilling, it is so innately human that it is
Speaker 2: an absolute tragedy to let outside opinion or some knucklehead
Speaker 2: online in some way take away your satisfaction or your experience.
Speaker 2: The animal deserves more than that. Going back to how
Speaker 2: serious this says, in going back to how you know
Speaker 2: respectful we have We should be of the animal and
Speaker 2: the whole hunt itself. Let's do it for our own
Speaker 2: reasons in a way that we can sleep with at
Speaker 2: night and silence in the outside noise. And if we
Speaker 2: can do that, and if we can try to be
Speaker 2: positive representatives of hunting, and if we can be good ambassadors,
Speaker 2: and if we can do things the right way, follow
Speaker 2: our moral code, make sure we're doing things to maintain
Speaker 2: sustainable numbers of wildlife in the future. If we can
Speaker 2: give back, then who the heck cares whether I kill
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty inch four year old or one
Speaker 2: hundred and ten inch two year old. Whatever, hunt your own, hunt,
Speaker 2: have fun, be a good ambassador, give back, and get
Speaker 2: out there. That's my question to answer session for the day.
Speaker 2: I hope you guys found this useful, interesting, educational. I
Speaker 2: appreciate the questions. I appreciate the tough questions. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm going to continue wrestling with many of these things.
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned, I don't have all the answers. I
Speaker 2: am a work in progress, and I think that's what
Speaker 2: I've tried to bring to the table over this last
Speaker 2: gosh like fifteen years or more that I have been
Speaker 2: creating content here with Wired to Hunt. What I have
Speaker 2: always promised is that I will be honest with you
Speaker 2: about where I'm at in this journey and share the
Speaker 2: ups and downs of that journey, share my lessons learned
Speaker 2: in this journey of pursuing something that I love so much,
Speaker 2: this passion for hunting and the love of the outdoors.
Speaker 2: And I've not always had the answers. I've not always
Speaker 2: had it figure it out. I've not always been the
Speaker 2: person who you can look to is like, oh, I
Speaker 2: want to do it just like he does. Right. I
Speaker 2: am a human being who loves this stuff a lot
Speaker 2: and who wants to contribute to a positive future for
Speaker 2: this lifestyle, for these wild places and wild lives, and
Speaker 2: that's what I aim to continue trying to do. So
Speaker 2: thanks for being a part of it, Thank you for listening,
Speaker 2: and until next time, Stay wired to hunt,