1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: In the jungles of northern me and Maar, close to 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 2: the border with China, a town called Pungwah sits in 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: a small valley. It's surrounded by forested peaks that are 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: sometimes dusted with snow. But against this scenic backdrop, a 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: sprawling industrial operation is transforming the hilltops. 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: So you have these hills, these very dramatic hill slopes, 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: with these pools kind of midway up the hill. So 9 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: there's like kind of a lattice work of pipes that's 10 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: laid over boreholes. So yeah, it is sort of industrial 11 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: and dystopian, but also set in a very remarkable, very 12 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: beautiful part of the world. 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: Timothy McLaughlin is a journalist and a freelance contributor for 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: Bloomberg based in Singapore. He says Punghwa and the surrounding 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 2: region of Kachin State have come into the spotlight lately 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 2: because a ground there is rich with precious metals rare 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: earths that are in high demand right now. 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: Meanmar is hugely significant in the rare earth's industry. It 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: is the third largest producer of rare earths globally, behind 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: the US of China. 21 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: These rare earth elements are worth billions of dollars. They're 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: key components in your iPhone, your electric vehicles, and even 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 2: missiles used by the US military. And Me and Mar 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: isn't just any producer of rare earth. It's a crucial 25 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: supplier to China, accounting for more than half of the 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: country's total imports last year. But the region around Pungwa 27 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: has been disrupted by a long running conflict between me 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: and Maar's military junta and a rebel group, the Kachin 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Independence Army or KIA. 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: The current Hunter took power in twenty twenty one, and 31 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: it has been a very tumultuous, bloody period for the 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: country for the past couple of years. It's important to 33 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: understand that Memr already had a large number of armed 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: groups who were fighting the central military primarily for greater 35 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: autonomy for their ethnic groups, and so the past four 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: years has seen a massive surge in fighting. You know, 37 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: the military has been able to hang on to most 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: of the middle of the country, but their control over 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: the periphery of the country and the borderlands has suffered 40 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: quite a bit. 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: Hungwah is part of that embattled region. The Kia took 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: control of the area late last year and that's created 43 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: a headache for China. 44 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 1: So they take over to these mines by the Kia 45 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: a huge complicating factor for Beijing and came at a 46 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: really inopportune time because whereas became this big global trade 47 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: issue kind of rate as the KA took over these mines, 48 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: and so Beijing and Chinese companies are now buying rare 49 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: earths from them, so funding them. But then they are 50 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: also supporting the memr military of the junta, so they 51 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: are on both sides of this fight. 52 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh. 53 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: Every week we take you inside some of the world's 54 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and 55 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, 56 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: how a rebel army in me and Mar became a 57 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 2: major player in the rare earth's industry and what its 58 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: new dominance means for China next door and for global 59 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: supply chains. Despite the name, rare earths are really not 60 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 2: that rare. They can be found all over the world, 61 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: but they're almost never found on their own in nature. 62 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: The minerals are mixed in with other elements in the 63 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 2: ground and often at low concentrations, and that makes mining 64 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: them a complex process. In me and Mar, rare earths 65 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: are usually extracted from the soil on hillsides. 66 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: So you have these very dramatic hill slopes with these 67 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: collection pools that are sort of at the bottom midway 68 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: up the hill. The collection pools they're lined with tarps, 69 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: so the water tends to have this kind of turquoise 70 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: color to it. 71 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 2: And to get these rare earth elements into these vast 72 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 2: collection pools, a process called n C two leaching comes in. 73 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: It's sort of like an IV drip for a hillside. 74 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: You're dripping this leaching agent into the hillside. So there's 75 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: like kind of a lattice work of pipes that's laid 76 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: over boreholes and then there's little taps and so this 77 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: is just going down into the ground and then later 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: towards the bottom of the hill washed out and what 79 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: comes out at the bottom is this mixture of rare 80 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: earth water leaching agent that's collected in large pools sort 81 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: of like concrete industrial swimming pools, and the rare earth 82 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: sludge settles at the bottom. The water is drained off, 83 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: and that sludge is then baked in these big furnaces 84 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: that look like massive pizza ovens, and the resulting product 85 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: is are rare docksides. 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: When demand for these metals began to take off in 87 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 2: the mid two thousands, China was by far the biggest 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: miner of rare earths. It accounted for nearly all of 89 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: the world's mind rare earth supply and was also the 90 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: biggest refiner. But around twenty ten, China began shutting down 91 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: many of its small scale mines. 92 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 1: China started to see the environmental impact it was having. 93 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: Pumping millions of liters of this fluid into the ground 94 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: had enormous ecological impact, especially of watersheds and river weys. 95 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: The wastewater that's full of chemicals and toxins is typically 96 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 2: directed right back into the nearest river. It can contaminate 97 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: the soil and the waterways downstream and cause landslides. A 98 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: lot of the mines that China shut down were located 99 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 2: in the country's southwest, along the frontier with Miunmar, and 100 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: as the industry shut down in China, the mine opera 101 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: looked just across the border. To get back to business. 102 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: You can see that on the ground level when you 103 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: know Chinese miners arriving, but eventually you can start to 104 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: see it from space because the mines start to get dug, 105 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: the pools start to fill up. You can also see 106 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: the road network getting built, and the road network kind 107 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: of goes not that far. It goes from China into 108 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: these mines and then and then the trucks kind of 109 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: go back out. 110 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 2: A geospatial analysis found that in just about seven years, 111 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 2: hundreds of new mining sites have sprung up in the 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 2: area where Pungwa is located. China became the biggest buyer 113 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 2: of me and Mars rare earth. It imported more than 114 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 2: eight hundred million dollars by twenty twenty one. That's eight 115 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 2: hundred times what it bought just a decade ago. 116 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: They have large deposits of two specific elements which are 117 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: turbum and dysprosia, and they are important to making rare 118 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: earth magnets, and these magnets are now found in a 119 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: lot of electric vehicles, five trains, wind turbines, guided missile systems, 120 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: and these two elements are added to magnets to enhance 121 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: their capabilities to make them able to work at higher 122 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: temperatures without losing the magnetism that they have. And so 123 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: right now these magnets are a huge point of contention 124 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: between the US and China. While these magnets are coming 125 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: from China because that's where they are made, the elements 126 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: that are going into them are coming from Vanmar in 127 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: many cases. 128 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 2: And what kind of impact then, are we seeing of 129 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: this mining boom on the environment and on local communities. 130 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: You're seeing people and other groups realize that there is 131 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: a huge amount of money, huge amount of demand. We're 132 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: going to see these minds expand probably outside of Kitchen 133 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: State to places that are controlled by other groups who 134 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: think that they have similar geology and they can also 135 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of cash in on this rare gold rush at 136 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 1: the moment, but I think the environmental impact is probably 137 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: the most pronounced right now. All you're seeing the rivers 138 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: and streams that are very important to the way of 139 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: life for small villages and cities and towns at this 140 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: part of the world getting totally ruined. And it is 141 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: also becoming a cross border issue because these watersheds run 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: through Southeast Asia and so some of this stuff is 143 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: now flowing into Thailand, and so you see the Thai 144 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: government tie civil society becoming concerned about this. There's also 145 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: concerns about the structure of the mines, the safety you 146 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: could imagine, pumping millions of gallons of liquid into the 147 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: side of a hill makes it inherently unstable. Often people 148 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: are getting trapped in tunnels or killed by landslides. So yes, 149 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: overall environmentally and labor regulations wise, very much sort of 150 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: the Wild West at the moment. 151 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: And while mining companies have been tearing up the ground 152 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: in search of rare earth minerals, the region around the 153 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: mines is being torn by a bloody conflict between the 154 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 2: government and rebel groups. After the break, the crucial supply 155 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: of rare earths in the hands of a rebel army 156 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: the risks for China and the world. For years, the 157 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 2: town of Pungwa in northern me and Maar was under 158 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: the control of a warlord allied with the country's military junta. 159 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 2: The rare earth's minds in the region were operated by 160 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: Chinese companies, and the shipments of the precious metals ran 161 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: like clockwork. Reporter Tim McLaughlin says the Chinese government generally 162 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: sees me and Mar's military regime as a stabilizing force 163 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: along its border. 164 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Beijing's greatest fears that the country would splinter apart and 165 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: there would be some sort of Syria type situation right 166 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: on a huge border that they have, And so they 167 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: sat on the fence for a while, and then when 168 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: they saw the MEMR military started to struggle last year 169 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: and maybe losing some key strategic outposts, they really kind 170 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: of came off the fence and threw their port behind 171 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: the ME and R military. Not because I think there's 172 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: any deep love there. I think it's because they really 173 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: fear the country just crumbling, and they think much like 174 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: the BOMR military does, that they are kind of the 175 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: glue holding this all together. 176 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: But that changed late last year when the KA, the 177 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: armed ethnic group battling the military junta, advanced on Pungwa. 178 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: The Kitschin Independence Army is fighting a larger, decades long 179 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: struggle against the VMMR military for greater autonomy for the 180 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: Kitchen ethnic people. Late last year, the KIA started fighting 181 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 1: their way towards this point, looking to capture not just Pangwa, 182 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: but capture all of Kitchen Special Region one and kind 183 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: of take it as their own. 184 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 2: The KIA took control of Pungwa along with hundreds of 185 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 2: valuable rare earth minds overnight. That made the rebel army 186 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: one of the largest players in the rare earth industry. 187 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: But Tim says this change of control in Pangwa has 188 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: put China in a difficult position. It's bordered with me 189 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,439 Speaker 2: and mar Is Long, so it needs to secure the 190 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: cooperation of the military junta, but it also needs the 191 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: rare earths that are now controlled by the rebels. 192 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: The KA is complicated because they are fighting the VNMR 193 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: junta and so Beijing and Chinese companies are now buying 194 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: rare earths from them, so funding them. But then they 195 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: are also supporting the menmar military of the junta, so 196 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: they are on both sides of this fight, and they 197 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: have voiced their displeasure to the Kia. They've also closed 198 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: the border on occasion to try to sort of force 199 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: their hand. So we did see the mining shut down 200 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: and saw the border close for a long time. It 201 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: is since reopened because we could see the exports going 202 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: out of VMMR into China now, so you know, an 203 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: agreement of some sort between these companies between the Kia 204 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: between China has been reached. For now, but like many 205 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: things in Nmar, at the moment, how long it will last, 206 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: how steady it is, is in open question. 207 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: By purchasing the rare earth's mind in Me and Mar, 208 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: China is effectively funding the Kia, perhaps a military Hunta's 209 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 2: greatest and most long standing enemy. This puts China in 210 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: a pickle, and that's why it's now looking for other 211 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 2: suppliers of these in demand elements. 212 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: You'll see much more coming from Laos. You'll see mining 213 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: startup in parts of Meanmar where Beijing has better relations 214 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: with the armed groups that have closer relations to Beijing, 215 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: and so the big official Chinese companies could go in 216 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: and operate. You're not relying on this kind of ragtag 217 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: middleman to kind of do this stuff. 218 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: As China tries to find other places beyond Me and 219 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: Mar for rare earths, the US is also scrambling to 220 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 2: find its own alternative to China. Last month, a rare 221 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: earth mine opened in Wyoming, the first in the US 222 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 2: in more than seventy years. At the same time, the 223 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 2: US is also tentatively eyeing Me and Mar. 224 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: For rare earths. There's been some interest from State Department 225 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: and other groups. About kind of sussing out and getting 226 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 1: a feel for the current situation and what it's like 227 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: on the ground. Right now, the US has very limited 228 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: engagement with Meanmar, meanmr is massively unstable at the moment. 229 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: You know, you have the hunta fighting armed ethnic groups, 230 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: you have them fighting smaller pro democracy groups that popped 231 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: up down for the coup. The Hunt is starting plans 232 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: for an election, which I think could be very destabilizing. 233 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: And then of course you see the military running a 234 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: really horrific campaign against its own citizens. 235 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: And Tim says there are more than just political and 236 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: humanitarian considerations for the US to factor. 237 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: There's just really, really really huge logistical issues. I mean, 238 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:56,479 Speaker 1: it would take moving tons of rare earth material from 239 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: a sort of undeveloped, far remote corner of the kind, 240 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: and then you'd have to move it across the country 241 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: that's covered with hundreds of warring ethnic groups and armed 242 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: groups to a point of exit. Then the question is, well, 243 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: where do you bring it to refine it? And the 244 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: answer to that question is you bring it to China, 245 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: because China is the only place that has the capability 246 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: to refine this stuff. So now we're back where we started, 247 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: right and that is assuming that Beijing would allow this. 248 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: Why would China allow any US firms or companies or 249 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: linked people come into their own backyard and take what 250 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: they have obviously deemed a national security asset from them. 251 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: So there's a myriad of issues. There's obviously been the 252 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: sort of moral issues of the country and dealing with 253 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: various militaries, but just the logistics and geopolitics of it 254 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: alone make it sound almost inconceivable. 255 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: And now you've got this rebel army added to the 256 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: geopolitical mix. It's such a wild card. 257 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's another situation that 258 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: ever reached the geopolitical tension that we're seeing now between 259 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: the US and China with rarersts in the middle. And 260 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: so you have these big superpowers and these big tech 261 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: companies and huge investments, and then when you drill down 262 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: one of the key players here is this group that 263 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: really was born out of a anti colonial struggle against 264 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: the MR government. And then I think the other thing 265 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: kind of wildcard here is technology in the advancements. Maybe 266 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: rare earth magnets will be innovative out of existence. Do 267 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: you already see some companies touting that they're running their 268 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: ev motors with batteries that don't have rare earths in them. 269 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: Maybe we're not talking about of them in the same way, 270 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: whether it's in ten years or fifteen or twenty years. 271 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: So there's also this other kind of unknown as the 272 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: kind of where this whole industry goes. 273 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm 274 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 2: wanh to get more from The Big Take and unlimited 275 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: access to all of Bloomberg dot Com. Subscribe today at 276 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Offer. If you like the episode, 277 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 2: make sure to subscribe and review The Big Tack Asia 278 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find 279 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 2: the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.