1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 2: Donald Trump beats the Press as Don Junior heads to Greenland. 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: Welcome to the fastest show in politics as the President 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 2: elect at mar A Lago, tox Economy, Energy, geopolitics, windmills 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 2: and home appliances. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in Washington. 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us on the Tuesday edition of 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 2: Balance of Power. Kaylee, it was a tour de force. 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: He went over an hour, mused about taking over Canada 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 2: and refused to rule out the idea of military force 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: somehow to cajole Panama or Greenland. 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, he described both of those as being important to 16 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: the economic security of the United States, and for that 17 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 3: reason he said he couldn't rule out using either economic 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 3: or military coercion in those areas, once again threatening tariffs 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 3: on Canada and Mexico, as we had already heard from him, 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 3: suggesting economic force could ultimately be what merges Canada and 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: the United States, and even threatened tariffs against Denmark if 22 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: it doesn't quote unquote give. 23 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 2: Up green questioning whether it even has rights over Greenland, 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: which is something that I think we can be pretty 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 2: definitive about. 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 4: But he did get into the congressional agenda a bit. 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 2: We talked about a lot of policy here as well, geopolitics, 28 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: and specific to Congress Kayley, the big question about sequencing. 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: Do you do this in one big, beautiful bill? And 30 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 2: it does seem that the President elect is open to either. 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, he did suggest he likes the idea of one bill, 32 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: but his mind does not seem fully made up. And 33 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 3: we do know that he will be meeting with Senate 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: Republican leadership here in Washington on Capitol Hill tomorrow, and 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: it is the Senate that is advocating for a two 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: part reconciliation package or packages. Rather, the House would like 37 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: to see that as one big package. And it's to 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 3: the House we go. Now, We're I'm pleased to save. 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: Republican Congressman Mike Flood of Nebraska is joining us. He's 40 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: also vice chair of the Main Street Caucus. Congressman, welcome 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 3: to Bloomberg TV and Radio. Thank you for being here. 42 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 3: Is it main Street's view that the only way to 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 3: really make sure the entire legislative agenda Donald Trump wants 44 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: to get done gets done is one big bill. 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 5: Well, I would say the overwhelming majority of main Street 46 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 5: members in our caucus would say one bill. But that's 47 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 5: not to say there aren't a handful of folks that 48 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 5: see value in the two bill solution. Ultimately, this is 49 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 5: President Trump's call. We're ready to roll. I think it's 50 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 5: important that we make this decision and then we start 51 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 5: to plan from it because time is ticking and we 52 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 5: need to get active on everything that we're doing as 53 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 5: soon as possible. You know, we're gonna have a lot 54 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 5: of things that unfold here. We've got the Trump tax 55 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 5: cuts expiring at the end of the year. There's really 56 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 5: no time for delay. 57 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 4: Congressman, it's good to have you on Bloomberg. 58 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: The President Alex saying I don't want to see a 59 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: debt ceiling default. I do want to say, see a 60 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: debt ceiling extension. 61 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 4: How will you get to it? 62 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I was talking to some of my 63 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 5: colleagues this morning after our conference. At the end of 64 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 5: the day. This isn't about whether or not America is 65 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 5: going to pay its bills. America is always going to 66 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 5: pay its bills because not dealing with the debt ceiling 67 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 5: is a default, and a default is not good in 68 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 5: a very major way for America, our economy. 69 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 4: Our markets, our position in the world. 70 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 5: Ultimately, I think we're going to deal with this in 71 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 5: a way that's very responsible. This year is going to 72 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 5: be a lot about cutting spending, and I don't know 73 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 5: that every America knows how serious we are about doing this. 74 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 5: I speak for a lot of members of the Main 75 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 5: Street Caucus. I know that the House Freedom Caucus and 76 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 5: so many other of my colleagues. We're talking about making 77 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 5: serious funding cuts that will hopefully make these debt ceiling 78 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 5: discussions less relevant going forward. But certainly we're going to 79 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 5: deal with a debt ceiling, whether it's a two year 80 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 5: extension in an amount that meets that standard, or it 81 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 5: wiping it away while we sort these problems out. I'm 82 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 5: confident we're going to find a solution and it will 83 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 5: work just fine. 84 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 6: Well. 85 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: Obviously, the debt sealing addition in a continuing resolution before 86 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: the twenty twenty four year ended in the last Congress, 87 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: Congressman what caused a bit of trouble, and the deal 88 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 3: that Republicans reached, at least in theory, was Yes, you 89 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: will get a debt limit extension that will be passed 90 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 3: when needed this year. You will also get something to 91 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 3: two and a half trillion dollars in spending cuts. I 92 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 3: believe how is that possible without touching Social Security and Medicare. 93 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 5: Well, obviously we're going to go through the process of reconciliation. 94 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 5: And we spent all day Saturday at Fort McNair in 95 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 5: here in Washington talking about what are some of the 96 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 5: mandatory suspending expenditures that we could address, And there are 97 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 5: a number of opportunities that we've identified outside of Social Security, which, 98 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 5: by the way, you can't even touch Social Security and 99 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 5: the reconciliation process, and outside of Medicare benefits provided to Americans, 100 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 5: there are mandatory spending programs that we've identified, and I 101 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 5: think in the next couple of weeks, maybe in the 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 5: next month and a half, the committees of jurisdiction are 103 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 5: going to start putting forward proposals that Americans are going 104 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 5: to have to get their hands around. This is not 105 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 5: going to be done without pain, And after Saturday, I 106 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 5: went home thought about it and I said, you know what, 107 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 5: if we're really going to tackle the deficit, there is 108 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 5: going to be a considerable amount of tough choices we 109 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 5: need to make, and we need to prepare Americans to 110 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 5: confront this very serious problem that we have in spending 111 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 5: and it will be the story of March and April 112 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 5: when people see what we're proposing. 113 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 2: Well, this has already become a more serious conversation than 114 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 2: we typically have with lawmakers about this. Congressman, so if 115 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: we could get more detailed, at least in your view, 116 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 2: where's the pain, if not at the Pentagon or to 117 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: Cayley's point, entitlements. 118 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 5: Well, you know, there's basically twelve pages of opportunities that 119 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 5: we looked at over the course of Saturday that come 120 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 5: from different committees of jurisdiction. Some of them deal with 121 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 5: the types of reimbursements we make to different types of 122 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 5: medical providers. You know, there's a whole system out there 123 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 5: that's been developed over the years. It's very complicated, and 124 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 5: sometimes we treat hospitals one way and we treat private 125 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 5: practice physicians a different way. The reality is it's the 126 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 5: same service both places, and so we need to have 127 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 5: these conversations like what should the policy be as we 128 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 5: reimburse providers. Now we're not talking about taking benefits away 129 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 5: from Americans that need medical care, but as you'll see 130 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 5: in the next couple of months, there's areas from the 131 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 5: committees of Jurisdiction, Energy and Commerce, Education, Workforce. I mean, 132 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 5: all of these different committee chairs are working diligently and 133 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 5: are sitting down with all of us, and that's the 134 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 5: process we have right now. I'm going to a meeting 135 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 5: later today in the Speaker's office and we're just talking about, Okay, 136 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 5: how will this work, what is the timing, what committees 137 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 5: have to be involved, and who in the conference needs 138 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 5: to be at these meetings so that they can have 139 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 5: their voices heard. We have no room for error. We 140 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 5: have to get to two hundred and eighteen votes. We 141 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 5: can spare only one vote on a very very narrow process. 142 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 5: So hopefully we can. 143 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 6: Get there. 144 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 7: Well. 145 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: And as we count those votes, what role are Democrats 146 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 3: going to have to play in all of this, Congressman, Well, as. 147 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 5: Long as we're talking about reconciliation, obviously, if we can 148 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 5: act as a majority in the House and our colleagues 149 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 5: in the Senate can use the reconciliation process. This will 150 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 5: be a very Republican driven agenda. Now, I'm under no 151 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 5: illusions outside of reconciliation, we're going to have to find 152 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 5: bipartisan solutions. We've only got fifty three votes in the Senate. 153 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 5: There will be a number of opportunities for bipartisan agreement. 154 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 5: But as it relates to reconciliation, and here are the 155 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 5: top and reconciliation that I think are relevant, border spending 156 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 5: tact cuts and energy, and I'm sure there'll be other 157 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 5: things thrown in, but that's where I think we're going. 158 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 4: Has anyone talked. 159 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: To the parliamentarian about this, Congressman, because there are concerns 160 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: and we heard John Thune talk about this that whatever 161 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: is crafted in the House could crash into a wall 162 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: in the Senate where it's going to have a bird bath. 163 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: The bird rule that makes it clear that if outside 164 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: of budgetary items, we don't have a reconciliation bill. Are 165 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: you worried that border policy may be at risk by 166 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: using this method. 167 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 5: Well, we're pretty confident the border policy provisions that we're 168 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 5: interested in can be in there. We talked about this 169 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 5: last Saturday at Fark being there, we're going to be 170 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 5: working hand in glove with John thrown over in the Senate. 171 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 5: The Bird Rule has six different provisions that have to 172 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 5: be followed. I cannot imagine we would pass the bill 173 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 5: out of the House that hadn't been vetted through the 174 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 5: Senate parliamentarian with the help of the majority leader over there. 175 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 5: That would be a colossal waste of everyone's time and 176 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 5: jeopardize this entire effort. That was one of the questions 177 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 5: that was asked last Saturday. How do we ensure that 178 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 5: what the House does passes the muster over in the Senate. 179 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 5: Otherwise this is an exercise and futility. 180 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 3: Congressman, you also have a seat on the House Financial 181 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 3: Services Committee, so i'd like to ask you about the 182 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 3: news we got yesterday from the Fed's Vice Chair of Supervision, 183 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: Michael Barr that he does intend to step back from 184 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: that role, though he will stay on as a governor. 185 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: Now chair of that Financial Services Committee. Fred Schelly, your colleague, 186 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: was on Bloomberg surveillance this morning. This is what he 187 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 3: had to say about a potential replacement, and we'll have 188 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: you respond. 189 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 7: Mickey Bowman's done an outstanding job as a governor on 190 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 7: the Federal Reserve. She comes to the Federal Reserve with 191 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 7: practical experience both as a bank commissioner in Kansas as 192 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 7: well as a family connected to community banking business there 193 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 7: in the Heartland. She's been a great voice for common 194 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 7: sense and tailoring and regulation, and I think she would 195 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 7: be if President Trump made that decision, that would be, 196 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 7: in my view, a good one. 197 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 3: So the chairman is advocating for Michelle Bowman here. Congressman, 198 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 3: do you also think that would be a good choice. 199 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 5: Well, obviously, I'm from the heartland. My state is filled 200 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 5: with community banks, and you know, after Selicon Valley banks 201 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,959 Speaker 5: collapse and the FDIC rushing in and doing the right thing, 202 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 5: and then watching a state bank collapse in Oklahoma without 203 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 5: the same kind of attention, I think that this is 204 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 5: a really good move for the Federal Reserve. Our nation 205 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 5: is built on the backs of community banks, and to 206 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 5: have someone that has that feed on the ground perspective, 207 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 5: I think is important. The Federal Reserve is going to 208 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 5: play an important role in our government, especially with Donald 209 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 5: Trump coming into the White House as a member of 210 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 5: the Financial Services Committee. You know, Michael Barr and his 211 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 5: Basel three and everything that's happened. We're going to turn 212 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 5: a page and we're going to see a new Federal Reserve, 213 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 5: hopefully a new leadership of the Federal Reserve and big 214 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 5: things ahead. 215 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 2: Congressman, I know you have to go vote, and I 216 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 2: want to thank you for joining us. Making his debut 217 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 2: here on Bloomberg TV and radio, the gentleman from Nebraska's 218 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: first district Representative, Mike Flood. 219 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch 220 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on Apple, 221 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You 222 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 223 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 224 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: With a lot to talk about, following our conversation with 225 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 2: the Congressman and a more than hour long news conference 226 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: from President ELEC. 227 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 4: Donald Trump. 228 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 2: Jennie Shanzano is here Democratic analyst, political science professor at 229 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 2: Iona University, alongside Rick Davis, republican strategist and partner at 230 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: Stone Court Capital. Rick, after what you just heard from 231 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: Mike Flood, it's clear that a lot still needs to 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: be figured out and the congressional agenda, and exactly what 233 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: role of Democrats will play in it is reconciliation. They're 234 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 2: going to be the savior that this Republican Conference hopes 235 00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: it will be. 236 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 8: Well, I think they're going to stage it is if 237 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 8: it is their savior, right, it can you know, produce 238 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 8: a budget. They'll probably use that platform, as we heard 239 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 8: today both from Donald Trump and others, that you know, 240 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 8: it could be the way we uh, you know, push 241 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 8: back the deficit. And and and I think it's important 242 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 8: to note on Congressman flood statement that even though he 243 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 8: said social Security is not subject to reconciliation, other mandatory 244 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 8: entitlement programs are, and so food stamps and things like 245 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 8: that all could be on this list of twelve pages 246 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 8: of items that the House of Representatis are using. But 247 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 8: I but I think that you know, these are limitations, right, 248 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 8: even though you get advantages with reconciliation, there are a 249 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 8: lot of things you cannot do that the government still 250 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 8: needs to do. And so we're not paying much attention 251 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 8: to the appropriations and authorization process. And I'd love to 252 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 8: see regular order be the way most of this stuff 253 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 8: gets done. 254 00:12:59,200 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 9: Well. 255 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 3: And Genie Joe brought up an excellent point to the congressman, 256 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 3: the suggestion that the parliamentarian is going to play a 257 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 3: role here nonpartisan. Obviously, they will decide what actually constitute 258 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 3: budget and revenue measures that can be handled under reconciliation. 259 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 3: And for all of the conversation we've had in recent 260 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 3: weeks about how hard it's going to be for Mike 261 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 3: Johnson to get this thing through a narrow majority in 262 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: the House, how hard is it going to be for 263 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: John Thune if he really wants to preserve the traditions 264 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 3: of the US Senate. 265 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 9: It's going to be difficult, you wonder, for all of 266 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 9: his institutional focus, and as you mentioned, preserving the traditions 267 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 9: of the all important upper Chamber of Congress, is he 268 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 9: tying his hands behind his back essentially by saying we 269 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 9: will not question what the parliamentarian rules, we will abide 270 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 9: by the filibuster. These are things that can obviously make 271 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 9: his job a lot easier. That said, as an institutionalist, 272 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 9: he believes profoundly in the idea of preserving what people 273 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 9: have always loved about the US Senate, and so he 274 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 9: is going to try to do that. It may impede 275 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 9: down from agenda. And you know, I thought the conversation 276 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 9: with Representative Flood was so good because he was so 277 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 9: sober in terms of making the point that needs to 278 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 9: be underscored. Republicans are serious. He says about cutting spending 279 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 9: and that is going to require pain. And he mentioned 280 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 9: that word pain to you both, and I thought it 281 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 9: was so important, and he said, you know, we need 282 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 9: to let the American people know that addressing the deficit 283 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 9: is going to require pain. What we don't know yet 284 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 9: is where that pain will be. And you all ask 285 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 9: such an important question. If it's not social Security, if 286 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 9: it's not Medicare, if it's not defense, what is it 287 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 9: going to be? And of course we don't know that yet. 288 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 9: They're still just in the early stages of this, but 289 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 9: you know, it is going to be fascinating to see 290 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 9: how they can get where they say they're going and 291 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 9: how they can make this happen with a president who 292 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 9: during the campaign was promising anything butt pain for the 293 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 9: American public, and certainly at this press conference at mar 294 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 9: Lago today. 295 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 6: So you know, I can't help but. 296 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 9: Wonder how they get there and you know, indeed, fulfill 297 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 9: all these promises that they've made on the campaign trail. 298 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: I'm glad you mentioned that, Genie, because I do wonder 299 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: Rick if Congressman Flood is speaking Donald Trump's language there 300 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: or if they're in two very different places. When it 301 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: comes to the so called pain and budget cuts. A 302 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: big deal has been made about dode. She says, Elon 303 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 2: Musk is the greatest cutter of all time. But is 304 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: that the kind of a rhetoric that Donald Trump's going 305 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: to be using and potentially causing blowback from the elector 306 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: the people who actually enjoy the programs that we're talking about. 307 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 7: Yeah. 308 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 8: Sure, anytime you start cutting government spending, somebody is going 309 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 8: to be impacted by that. The reality, though, is it's 310 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 8: the right approach to take in the sense that if 311 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 8: you lay out the idea that we're going to take 312 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 8: some things away from people, whether it's programs inside the 313 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 8: Education Department or Department of Energy or HHS, the reality 314 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 8: is we got to start a program to where we 315 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 8: start being right sizing government. And I think Donald Trump's 316 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 8: you know, the one thing you got to give him 317 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 8: credit for is he'll take a loss and turn it 318 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 8: into a win. Right, So, Okay, maybe they don't get 319 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 8: to two trillion dollars and cuts over the federal budget 320 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 8: in ten years. Even if it's close to a trillion, he's. 321 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 4: Going to declare victory. 322 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 8: And by the way, I have done more than most 323 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 8: anybody else in our lifetime to sort of stem the 324 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 8: growth of the federal government. Look, I do think the 325 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 8: safety valve is United States Senate. I mean, whatever comes 326 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 8: out of there will be bipartisan. 327 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 4: It does not. 328 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 8: The reconciliation doesn't trigger the you know, the filibuster. So 329 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 8: it's just whatever, you know, you can get to fifty 330 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 8: one and and like what has happened in the past 331 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 8: on these reconciliation bills, the House will take the lead 332 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 8: and fail, and Senate will come in with their own 333 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 8: version of a bipartisan bill, and you're probably gonna wind 334 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 8: up with Democratic votes in the House to get it done. 335 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 8: And by the way, applause by the White House because 336 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 8: they just want to sign something that advances their agenda. 337 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 8: So I think that realistically seeing something. You know, James Mahoney, 338 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 8: our producer, said, March madness is going to be more 339 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 8: than just basketball this year, and I think he's right. 340 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 8: This is going to be fiscal March madness. So you know, 341 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 8: we ought to start our own little chart to see 342 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 8: what stays and what goes. 343 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: We love it when producer James gets a shout out, Genie, 344 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: if we're talking about March madness, that's getting intoto what 345 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: two months in the second Trump administration, for all of 346 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 3: our conversation around early wins, Donald Trump might want to 347 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 3: not are they really going to end up being all 348 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 3: that early? 349 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 9: He's hoping they're early, and I think that's why we 350 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 9: heard him again today in the press conference say he's open. 351 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 9: You know, he prefers the one big beautiful reconciliation bill, 352 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 9: but it has to be too. He's okay with that 353 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 9: as long as he achieves this agenda. And I think 354 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 9: that's what John Thune has been trying to urge the 355 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 9: president is he can get a win on energy, which 356 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 9: he talked again today about how that will help cut 357 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 9: grocery prices, and he can get a win on immigration 358 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 9: if he does the two step approach. But of course 359 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 9: you've got a house and Mike Johnson and Jason Smith 360 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 9: and others saying you gotta go big, bold and one 361 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 9: big beautiful bill, So you know, we don't know how 362 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 9: early this is gonna be. And just to what Rick 363 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 9: was talking about. All of those proposals that they've talked 364 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 9: about Elon Musk, the bag Ramaswami for Doze in terms 365 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 9: of cutting the education Department, the schedule left that doesn't 366 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 9: begin to get us to the two trillion dollars that 367 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 9: they're talking about. It doesn't even get us. 368 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 6: Close to half of that. 369 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 9: They're gonna have to have big cuts, and that's what 370 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 9: we haven't heard. 371 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Geenie Shanzano and Rick Davis, our signature 372 00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 3: political panel. 373 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 374 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 375 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: Apple Coarclay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. 376 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 377 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 378 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 4: Live from the Nation's Capital. 379 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 2: It is Balance of Power, the Tuesday edition, and we 380 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 2: have breaking news as the Associated Press reports the appeals 381 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 2: Court judge refusing to delay Donald Trump's planned sentencing on Friday. 382 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: This is the New York hush money case, and one 383 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: Kayley that we knew was not going to result in 384 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 2: jail time ahead of the inauguration. That's been made clear, 385 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: but one that we thought might actually move here. 386 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 4: Also pretty important. 387 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: This was for January tenth, by the way, yep, and 388 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 2: the implications of presidential immunity. 389 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: Here are large. 390 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: This just happened, by the way, the Appeals court judge 391 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 2: refusing to delay the sentencing, which we'll go on as 392 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: planned on Friday. 393 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, not just delaying the sentencing, but also refusing to 394 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 3: vacate the verdict, because that is something that Trump and 395 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 3: his legal team had asked for in light of the 396 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 3: presidential immunity decision from the Supreme Court. They suggested that 397 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 3: the case in which he was found guilty of thirty 398 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 3: four fellow accounts should be tossed out as some of 399 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 3: these checks, for example, that were used as evidence were 400 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 3: written by Trump when he was sitting in the Oval office. 401 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: But the Appeals Court has not bought in to that 402 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 3: argument in this case. So it does look with the 403 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 3: sentencing we'll continue on Friday. Though Donald Trump is not 404 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 3: expected to attend in person, he was given the option. 405 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 10: To appear virtually. That's likely how this will go. 406 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 3: And again, as you said, no jail time, unconditional discharge 407 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 3: is what Judge Wan Merechan has suggested, which essentially means 408 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 3: no punishment. 409 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 4: It's pretty remarkable. 410 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: Donald Trump held an hour plus long news conference at 411 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: mar A Lago earlier and talked about the legal implications here, 412 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: referring to his former presidency, his first term, and the 413 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: good work that he says he's done with regard to 414 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: the American people. 415 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 4: To see the. 416 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: Government weaponized against him. We'll probably hear more of that. Yeah, 417 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 2: come Friday. He talked about a lot of things today. 418 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 10: He did. 419 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 3: He even had news broken to him because while he 420 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 3: was in the middle of the news conference, we got 421 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 3: the order from the judge in the document's case down 422 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: in Florida, a Trump appointee, Island Cannon, who blocked the 423 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: release of the report from Special Council Jack Smith. Of course, 424 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 3: this prosecution was not going forward. In fact, Jack Smith 425 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 3: had been found to be incons unconstitutionally appointed by Judge 426 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 3: Cannon earlier on in the case. 427 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 10: So this wasn't going to proceed. 428 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 3: But we did think we might get an eye on 429 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 3: all of the evidence that Jack Smith had gathered through 430 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: the release of this report. Trump's team obviously had asked 431 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 3: for that to be blocked, and at least for now 432 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 3: they have gotten their wish on that. 433 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 9: Yeah. 434 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 2: Merrick Garland had indicated that he would allow the release 435 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 2: of that report if it had been completed. A lot 436 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: of folks thought they'd be seeing that imminently. There were 437 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: headlines about this morning, Kayley, But you're right, this new 438 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 2: order from the federal judge in Florida puts this to rest. 439 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: It looks like Jack Smith is on ice for at 440 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 2: least the next four years. 441 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 3: And of course all of this happening, which is days 442 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 3: to go until Donald Trump is inaugurated, and in fact, when 443 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 3: that sentencing hearing is held on Friday, will be just 444 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 3: ten days and we'll be just five days out from inauguration, Joe, 445 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 3: when the country once again is going to be facing 446 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 3: down some labor risk. As January fifteenth is the deadline 447 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 3: for the international longshoremen on the ports on the East Coast, 448 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 3: it is half of cargo volumes in the country by volume, 449 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 3: could threaten to go on strike once more. 450 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 10: Remember they did so for three days in the fall, reached. 451 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: A temporary tentative deal that covered only wages, and now 452 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 3: as talks resumed today, what they have to sort out 453 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 3: is the issue of automation. 454 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were two components to this, and I think 455 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 2: some suggested on this program that the. 456 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 4: Wages might be the easy part. 457 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: Dealing with automation, for which dock workers have an extreme allergy, 458 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 2: is another matter. They're meeting in New Jersey with about 459 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 2: a week, as Kayley mentioned, left to hammer out a 460 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 2: deal here and avoid a strike that would debilitate the economy. 461 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: We're talking about closing down ports up and down the 462 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: East coast here and the Gulf of Mexico, which Donald 463 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: Trump wants to rename the Gulf of America. There's a 464 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 2: lot of cross current with what we're hearing about AI, 465 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: about the physical AI in the words of Jensen Wong 466 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: last evening, or the AI workforce as we hear from 467 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 2: Mark Bennioff at Salesforce. The idea of automation appears to 468 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 2: be inevitable. And it's interesting to consider that Donald Trump 469 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 2: is joining the dock workers in this pushback. 470 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, he has been on their side with this. I 471 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 3: guess it becomes a question if they're actively striking when 472 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 3: he's taking the oath of office, how he will. 473 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 10: That comptics would be remarked approach the issue. 474 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 3: And we want to get into all of this now 475 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 3: with an expert on labor Sharon Block is with us. 476 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 3: She's Professor of Practice and executive director of the Center 477 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 3: for Labor and adjust Economy at Harvard Law School. Welcome 478 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 3: back to Bloomberg TV and Radio, Sharon. When we focus 479 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 3: on the dock workers, specifically in this issue over automation 480 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 3: and what technology can and cannot be used at ports 481 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 3: by the employers of these dock workers, how hard is 482 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 3: this actually going to be to resolve? 483 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 11: Well, obviously, the negotiations have been going on for a while, 484 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 11: so this is an easy issue. But this is the 485 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 11: way to get it done, to sit at the bargaining table, 486 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 11: let workers have a voice in the big important decisions 487 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 11: about how these ports are going to operate going forward. 488 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 11: But I think you know, you've hit on a really 489 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 11: important sort of new participant at the table, and that's 490 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 11: the incoming President Donald Trump. 491 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 6: And are these doc. 492 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 11: Workers really going to believe that he's going to continue 493 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 11: to stand with them the way that President Biden did 494 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 11: when they started these negotiations. I think that's a variable 495 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 11: that none of us know exactly how that's going to 496 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 11: play out. 497 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 2: Well, are we simply talking about delaying the inevitable here, 498 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: or should DOC workers have some sort of claim on 499 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: manual labor that cannot be replaced by automation. 500 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 6: You know, it's really not an either or and and 501 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 6: you know, I think if you really dive into what 502 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 6: the DOC workers want, and it's it's similar to what 503 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 6: all workers who are facing technological change to their. 504 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 11: Jobs want, which is to have a say in how 505 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 11: these big changes happen, to have their interests and not 506 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 11: just sort of the corporate bottom line or the shareholder's 507 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 11: interests taken into account as these decisions are being made. 508 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 11: So it's not sort of binary, yes, automation, no automation, 509 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 11: it's how are these changes going to unfold, what's the 510 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 11: piece of change, what kind of supports are put in 511 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 11: place for workers whose jobs really are transformed by new technology? 512 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 11: And it's it's an issue that's just going to keep 513 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 11: coming up again and again, as you know, as you highlighted, 514 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 11: as AI finds its way into more and more workplaces. 515 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 11: So it's really important that we have good models of 516 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 11: these kinds of transformations happening with workers, not just to workers. 517 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 3: Well, when we consider the Sharon and I take your 518 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 3: point about how it doesn't necessarily have to be something 519 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 3: binary that technology can be incorporated while still keeping jobs intact. 520 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 3: And yet at some point isn't the point of greater 521 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: efficiency to reduce operating costs like paying more workers to 522 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 3: do jobs that machines could do. And I wonder how 523 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 3: that has to be balanced here at the idea that 524 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: if you want to make things more efficient, at some 525 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 3: point that could come at the cost of jobs, And 526 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: how the labor movement as a whole is going to 527 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 3: be approaching that. 528 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 6: Yeah. 529 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 11: Yeah, if you look at the history of the labor movement, 530 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 11: obviously they have been a part of many technological transformations. 531 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 11: So again, it's not a matter of trying to stop 532 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 11: increased productivity that can come from technological change. But then 533 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 11: what what are the interests of the workers in making 534 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 11: those transformations? Are there resources made available for workers to 535 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 11: reskill or upskill, or to spread the work, the remaining 536 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 11: work among more people. Again, it's not just about do 537 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 11: you show up one day and your job is gone, 538 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 11: or do you keep the technology out of the out 539 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 11: of the industry. It's having a process and giving workers 540 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 11: a voice and having their interests be part of the 541 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 11: strategy for bringing new technology into the workplace. 542 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: Or do we make existing workers more productive by leveraging 543 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: this technology. Sharon, we hear so much about labor shortages, 544 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: and you've got to as I mentioned someone like Mark 545 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 2: Benioff talking about an AI workforce, if you can't find 546 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 2: the people, well we've got them for you here in 547 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 2: a different world. That doesn't necess necessarily have to mean 548 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,160 Speaker 2: job cuts, does it. 549 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 6: It doesn't. 550 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,880 Speaker 11: And in fact, I think what we're seeing right now 551 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 11: is more sort of enhancement and augmentation of jobs than 552 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 11: actually replacement of jobs. 553 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 6: And you know, there are certainly. 554 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 11: Lots of people who will tell you that they can 555 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 11: look into the crystal ball and know exactly sort of 556 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 11: where this AI process is going. We don't know, but 557 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 11: I think what we've seen so far is that it 558 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 11: isn't a replacement story. It's an augmentation story, but it's 559 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 11: also a surveillance story. It's also a taking humans out 560 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 11: of management story, and I think it's really important to 561 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 11: remember that that's also part of what we need to 562 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 11: be dealing with as AI comes more into the workplace. 563 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 11: Is it harming workers Even when it's not taking their jobs, 564 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 11: it can. 565 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 6: Still be. 566 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 11: Detrimental to the quality of jobs, or it can in 567 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 11: fact make jobs safer. You know, if automation can do 568 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 11: some of the parts of jobs, tasks within jobs that 569 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 11: are particularly dangerous, that are maybe particularly tedious or monotonous, 570 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 11: that can be a win win for both productivity for 571 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 11: the workers. But again, you need to employers, managers need 572 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 11: to be listening to workers just really understand what is 573 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 11: happening at work so that they can together figure out 574 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 11: both what will make the job most productive, what will 575 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 11: make it most safe, and hopefully what will continue to 576 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 11: make it a good job. 577 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 3: Sharon, as we consider the year ahead of us in 578 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: twenty twenty five, our colleagues have put together a great 579 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: story out on the wire today from Bloomberg Law that 580 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: finds two hundred large union contracts nearly are set to 581 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 3: expire this year, covering more than one and a half 582 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 3: million workers. Is this going to be another red hot 583 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 3: labor year as we've experienced recently. 584 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 11: I mean, with that many contracts coming up, I think 585 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 11: it will be. But you know, I'm not happy to say. 586 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 11: I think there's a lot of uncertainty about how those 587 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 11: kinds of negotiations are going to unfold because of the 588 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 11: change in administrations we are coming off of or will 589 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 11: be coming off of. It you know, towards the end 590 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 11: of this month, the most pro union president in our 591 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 11: history were then will be inaugurating a president who had 592 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 11: a record in his first term of undermining the labor movement, 593 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 11: of undermining workers when they came to the bargaining table. 594 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 11: And so I think that again has just added another 595 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 11: layer of uncertainty. And I'm very concerned. If you looked 596 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 11: at the National Labor Relations Board under the under Trump 597 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 11: in the first administration, this was a National Labor Relations 598 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 11: Board which really tried to ratchet back protections for workers 599 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 11: at the bargaining table. So I think that's going to 600 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 11: put some added pressure on those negotiations. But again, with 601 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 11: that many contracts up at one time, it kind of 602 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 11: creates its own momentum and its own dynamics. So it 603 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 11: should be a very very interesting year to watch. 604 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 4: Labor, that's for sure. We'd like to stay close with 605 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 4: you on this, Sharon. It's great to see you. 606 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 2: Sharon Block with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio. We 607 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: appreciate the insights. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines in 608 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: our remaining couple of moments here, Kaylee, we should point 609 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 2: everyone to what's about to happen here in Washington. Roughly 610 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 2: a half an hour from now, President Carter's remains will 611 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 2: arrive at Joint Base Andrews, and that will tick off 612 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 2: the beginning of a sequence of events that we're going 613 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: to be tracking through the next couple of days here 614 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 2: leading up to his funeral in Washington and return to Georgia. 615 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: A horse drawn cason will carry Jimmy Carter's remains from 616 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 2: the US Navy Memorial right on Pennsylvania Avenue into the 617 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 2: Rotunda and there's going to be a service there. Kamala Harris, 618 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 2: we'll speak along with others, including John fun Yeah. 619 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 3: He will lie in state in the capital for nearly 620 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 3: two full days. The public will be able to pay 621 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 3: their respects beginning at seven pm until midnight tonight and 622 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 3: all day tomorrow, and of course, all of this leading 623 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 3: up to the state funeral that will be held at 624 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 3: the Cathedral here in Washington on Thursday morning. And we 625 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 3: will be having special coverage of that state funeral here 626 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 3: on Bloomberg from nine to twelve, and then we'll be 627 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: here for a special edition of Balance of Power from 628 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 3: twelve to two pm Eastern. 629 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 2: It will be a national day of Morning no market trading, 630 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: no stocks on Thursday, but we'll have you covered here 631 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: as you would expect on Bloomberg, David Gora has made 632 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 2: his way to the Capitol, and Marie Hordern will be 633 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 2: involved as well in. 634 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 4: Our special coverage. Thanks for listening to the Balance of 635 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 4: Power podcast. 636 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 637 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 638 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 2: us live every week day from Washington, d C. 639 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 4: At noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.