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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

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Speaker 1: Never Told You, a protection of iHeartRadio. And for this

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Speaker 1: a Monday, many, Samantha and I wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: a big event, make a loud noise. It has been

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Speaker 1: a part of our lives for a while now. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've hinted at it. We announced it in our recent

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Speaker 1: book club, but we wrote a book we did. It

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Speaker 1: is called Stuff I Never Told You The Feminist Past,

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Speaker 1: Present and Future. It comes out on August twenty ninth.

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Speaker 1: You can pre order it at stuff you Should Read

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Speaker 1: books dot com. You can also see an excerpt from

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Speaker 1: it with some wonderful illustrations. We'll talk about that more

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Speaker 1: in a second, and you can also find the cover

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Speaker 1: announcement and a linked pre order on our social media's,

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Speaker 1: So go check that out if you haven't already. But

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Speaker 1: we wanted today to kind of talk about talk about it,

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Speaker 1: talk about this, yeah, because it has been a part

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Speaker 1: of our lives that we kind of weren't supposed to

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Speaker 1: talk about on the show right for a while. But

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Speaker 1: it has been a just for me at least, like

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Speaker 1: a very big part of I passed, Like I guess

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Speaker 1: nine months I don't know. I mean it's longer than that,

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Speaker 1: but for like really hit the ground running nine months, right.

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Speaker 1: We wrote that book in like six months though, I know,

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Speaker 1: which was incredibly daunting on top of a full time job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot. It was. Yeah, I would say

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Speaker 1: that we've been talking about doing this book since I

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Speaker 1: actually signed on. Even before I signed my contract to

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Speaker 1: be full time, the book discussion had happened and we

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Speaker 1: were like, Okay, we wait, we wait, we wait, must

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Speaker 1: write today. Literally the process and thank god, we had

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Speaker 1: at some great book like brainstorming between any and I.

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Speaker 1: He's even joined us at one point, talking with us

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Speaker 1: and helping us through the writing process at the very

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Speaker 1: beginning when she was our executive producer. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: been it's been a long time coming. It's a little

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Speaker 1: outdated already. Apologies for that, because yeah, it was written

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. We had everything done and it

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Speaker 1: went into editing process all of twenty twenty two, and

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Speaker 1: now we're at the finalization mode and now being able

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Speaker 1: to talk about it. We've got an amazing team with

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Speaker 1: Flat Iron. They have a great crew of people, mainly

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Speaker 1: of women, so that was delightful. To see. We were

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Speaker 1: in the hands of these amazing women as well as

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Speaker 1: our people who helped us, whether it was our editor

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Speaker 1: slash advocate slash ghostwriter as well as our illustrator. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to be talking more about them in

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Speaker 1: a second, because they this would not have happened at

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Speaker 1: all without them. Oh, there was a lot of hurry

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Speaker 1: up and wait with this, which is always a stressful thing.

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Speaker 1: And as you might know if you listen to the show,

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Speaker 1: Samantha and I are both prone to stress. We'll say understatement, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it has been stressful. But we were very very fortunate,

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Speaker 1: very very lucky to have this opportunity to work with

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Speaker 1: the people we did work with. But for kind of

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Speaker 1: a basic layout, a lot of this was you, Samantha,

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Speaker 1: A lot of it was your idea, but we chose

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Speaker 1: like there's thirteen chapters, but I'm pretty sure sure we

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Speaker 1: chose like ten topics like abortion or reproductive rights and

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Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus rights, both of which are probably going to

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Speaker 1: be the most outdated by the time it comes out

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Speaker 1: Civil rights, but also things like athletics, dress code, all

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Speaker 1: kinds of staff where we kind of talked about why

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Speaker 1: it was important we looked at the history of it,

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Speaker 1: we looked at the future of it, and we talked

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Speaker 1: about why it mattered to us personally. Also a ray

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Speaker 1: Kit chapter and shout out to Renee Shelby, who we

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Speaker 1: had on our show when you first started, so we

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Speaker 1: have then, who was amazing. We used so much of

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Speaker 1: her research in that, and it has these fictional women interludes,

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Speaker 1: which were also your idea. Were some of my favorite

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Speaker 1: things where I got to write about like why this

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Speaker 1: character matters and the tropes behind them and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And that's what you can see if you go look

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Speaker 1: at the excerpt that's up right now on the website

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Speaker 1: on stuff you should read books dot com. But there

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Speaker 1: was this really really cool graphic novel Elements that you

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Speaker 1: were a big proponent of and I'm one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: behind you, and I was so glad that you pushed

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Speaker 1: it where we got to work with this amazing local artist,

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Speaker 1: Helen Joy and it was a really great collaborative process,

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Speaker 1: but it was also kind of hilarious how amazing she was.

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Speaker 1: Where I would literally be like in this frame, it's

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Speaker 1: a bam. Have you seen Spider Verse? It's like that,

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Speaker 1: But like with tennis and Helen's like, Okay, I can

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Speaker 1: make that happy. Yeah. She was so talented. She used

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta based artists and does so much here and

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Speaker 1: has a beautiful artwork if you can go check her

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Speaker 1: out o. Her last name is Choice Choi And Yeah, actually,

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Speaker 1: our good friend of the show, the creator of our logo, Pam,

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Speaker 1: was the one that linked us to her, which we

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Speaker 1: were so excited to have because of course that was

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Speaker 1: two things that we thought was important. That they are

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Speaker 1: local as well as that they are a feminist but

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Speaker 1: they were part of the marginalists community and that they

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Speaker 1: we are as a crew, because we wanted to be

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Speaker 1: obviously very succincted that we want to practice what we

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Speaker 1: preach in how we produced what we were writing in.

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Speaker 1: Helen was right in that realm, and she did an

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Speaker 1: amazing job communicating with us and letting us know what

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Speaker 1: could and couldn't happen, helping us think through our ideas.

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Speaker 1: She made a really cute guitars of us. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's quite funny and I enjoyed every bit of that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It is one of the coolest parts of the book

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, and it's one of the things that

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Speaker 1: I've kind of like shown people when perhaps I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been, like this, look how good it is. The

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Speaker 1: way we did this is Samantha and I split who

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Speaker 1: did what chapter, so they were kind of isolated in

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Speaker 1: that way. And there is a flow throughout for sure,

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Speaker 1: but it was kind of me working on this chapter,

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Speaker 1: Samantha working on this chapter, et cetera. And at least

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Speaker 1: for me, when I was working with Helen, I would

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Speaker 1: write out, this is like probably too long, here's this,

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Speaker 1: and here's the imagery. You know, I'd have links and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff, and I think about it from her,

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Speaker 1: and all she's getting is like kind of my you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, right, But being able to take

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Speaker 1: that and make it her own and make it this

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Speaker 1: like really beautiful, beautiful piece that was exactly It communicated

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Speaker 1: exactly what I wanted it to and what I needed

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Speaker 1: it too, because it does tell the story that starts

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Speaker 1: a lot of these chapters, and her illustrations are throughout,

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Speaker 1: but it's just like so key to the whole book,

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Speaker 1: like it is, you can't separate it out the illustrations

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Speaker 1: and the rest of it. So I feel so fortunate

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Speaker 1: that we got to work with her and that we

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Speaker 1: got to see like what she made based on kind

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Speaker 1: of our word salads, right, it really was literally for

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Speaker 1: you are way more descriptive because I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: three words maybe because she did an amazing job in

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Speaker 1: cultivating exactly what we needed. She even helped some of

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Speaker 1: our activities because he asked, y'all, you know we love

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Speaker 1: self care, so we added little activities in the book

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Speaker 1: as well, which is kind of funny because I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it's all as accessible as we hoped it

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Speaker 1: would be. Anyway, Yes, there was a lot of complications

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Speaker 1: and tried to iron out what our hopes were versus

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Speaker 1: the reality of it. But yeah, so she did an

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Speaker 1: amazing job in all of those making sure that we

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Speaker 1: had exactly what we pictured, and she even depicted several

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Speaker 1: illustrations of real people and she did an amazing job

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Speaker 1: in that, just taking it like exactly as we would

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Speaker 1: want and putting it in reality in our book, and

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Speaker 1: it's gorgeous. So I'm very excited about that, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it was. What was more fun is that

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Speaker 1: each of us took chapters that was aligned, kind of

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Speaker 1: like how our shows, you know which episode are hours.

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Speaker 1: I think everybody knows that outside of us just saying

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Speaker 1: this is us, we kind of know whose idea or

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Speaker 1: what we wanted to do with these things. And that's

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Speaker 1: exactly how the book turned out too, which is fantastic

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Speaker 1: that we were able to portray our personalities from the

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Speaker 1: podcast into the book as well, but still make it

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Speaker 1: a little bit different than the podcast. Yeah, yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a difficult ask of how we translate this

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Speaker 1: podcast into a book when we are we talk about everything, right,

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Speaker 1: and feminism is just such a huge topic and you know,

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Speaker 1: there's only so much we can talk about you and

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Speaker 1: I when it comes to feminism, but that we don't

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Speaker 1: want to ignore all the other things, So that that

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Speaker 1: was difficult. And we did want the activities as sort

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Speaker 1: of a like cleanser because a lot of it isn't

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Speaker 1: easy to read. I would say we made it. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna make you miserable. And we also have

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Speaker 1: warnings at every chapter, just like we did for our shows. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: kind of those content warnings of like if you're not

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Speaker 1: in the space for this one, this one's like this

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Speaker 1: level of rating. So I think that's important too, But

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Speaker 1: I just remember so fun, like working with Helen and

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Speaker 1: how excited she was to have like just these conversations

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Speaker 1: with us about like how can we portray this the

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Speaker 1: best way? So she was really a highlight and her

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Speaker 1: art was really a highlight in my opinion. Also working

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Speaker 1: with Jane Franzen, who is our yes editor, ghostwriter, handholder advocate,

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Speaker 1: did like all of the things because we didn't we're

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Speaker 1: new to this book world. It was kind of embarrassing

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Speaker 1: and the obvious how little we knew pretty early on

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Speaker 1: when we'd be in meetings with like book people and

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Speaker 1: we'd be like, um, please explain what that abbreviation means.

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Speaker 1: They don't know it. I think that the many many

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Speaker 1: rounds of like trying to stop people and be like, okay, look,

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Speaker 1: we're podcasters, writers, We're gonna have to start from scratch,

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Speaker 1: and whether that's talking about advertising, whether it was talking

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Speaker 1: about la a book, the concrete developments of how these

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Speaker 1: books will be laid out, what costs money, what doesn't

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Speaker 1: cost money, all these things that we have no clue about.

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Speaker 1: It was quite funny to sit there and be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. And for me, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the times I would pretend like I would

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Speaker 1: know and then come back to Janey and be like yes,

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Speaker 1: they just say to me yes. I would find out

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Speaker 1: later from that you had done that. I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's great. YE will help me because I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that I'm just gonna pretend we don't know. Now.

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Speaker 1: She was fantastic, Like we couldn't have asked for someone better,

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Speaker 1: who just really was able to adapt to like our

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Speaker 1: separate needs right and also was so kind and so

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Speaker 1: patient who kept us on task, who like made sure

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Speaker 1: we got everything done, but also was there if you

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Speaker 1: were like panicking, I don't know how to do this,

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Speaker 1: like this is way too much, she would be there.

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Speaker 1: And she was just so like we were doing this

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic. We were doing it over voice calls,

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Speaker 1: and she was just so like personable and would check

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Speaker 1: in with us and how we were doing and yes, nice.

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Speaker 1: Her personality was such a great fit with us. We

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Speaker 1: hope that we can talk her into coming onto the

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Speaker 1: show BT Dubs because her job is phenomenal in itself.

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Speaker 1: I will say, what we you know, originally thought was ghostwriting.

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Speaker 1: We had not used that as we thought it would

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Speaker 1: be used essentially because we wrote the chapters and they were,

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Speaker 1: they were painful. Sometimes Um I say this as the

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Speaker 1: person like, oh my god, we have to write. And

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Speaker 1: she was great giving us deadlines, which I need those deadlines.

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Speaker 1: Annie was done immediately, and I'm like, give me to

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Speaker 1: the last possible minute to write these twelve pages, because

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Speaker 1: I am screwed at this point. But she was so great.

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Speaker 1: What I would give her twelve pages of just rambling

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Speaker 1: and she would make it succinct and making it readable

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Speaker 1: and then even with our helping us change our original

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Speaker 1: plans and layouts to make more sense. So that's obviously

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Speaker 1: she is a professional, right and she was able to

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Speaker 1: help us understand that as well. And the layout looks

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Speaker 1: amazing in part because of her, because she showed us

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Speaker 1: or she tried to teach us, because this is a

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Speaker 1: better way. What again is feasible and what isn't and

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Speaker 1: what actually looks good versus what can only live in

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Speaker 1: fantasyland of scattered brain Samantha, which is what happened oftentimes.

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Speaker 1: And she did an amazing job. And again when I

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Speaker 1: would sit and be like, what do you think of this?

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Speaker 1: And then with brainstorm, I would come out right with this,

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Speaker 1: and then she would edit the hell out of it

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Speaker 1: and making sure that she's able to relay what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: even not I mean to come back and back it.

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Speaker 1: Did you mean to say it this way or this way?

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Speaker 1: So that was real interesting. But she has been an

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Speaker 1: amazing mentor in this whole thing like that, that's nothing

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Speaker 1: short of watching her magically make this a book, I

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Speaker 1: feel like, instead of just essays that we're putting down,

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Speaker 1: which I felt like I was doing half the time,

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Speaker 1: versus like watching her, like doing those as a as

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Speaker 1: a mom, like how'd you taking care of a family

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Speaker 1: and they trying to take care of us? And during

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Speaker 1: a pandemic also while like it's going navigating the world

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Speaker 1: of COVID because we had so many in and outs

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Speaker 1: of a conversation that was quite interesting to see what

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Speaker 1: this looks like. But yeah, like in her being our

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Speaker 1: guiding light and being our face to face when we

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Speaker 1: were so confused in some of the emails that would

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Speaker 1: come through that were like we don't get it, and

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Speaker 1: would also hear us out when we were complaining because

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Speaker 1: we were like, this is this is impossible? Why are

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Speaker 1: we doing this? And her being a negotiator for us

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Speaker 1: some of the times, Oh yeah, there was more than

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Speaker 1: one instance where Samantha and I got an email and

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Speaker 1: we thought it was spam, but I guess it was

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Speaker 1: a real book email. And she was the one that

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Speaker 1: was like, No, this is real. You need to do this.

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Speaker 1: This is a part of the job. No one told us,

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Speaker 1: but thanks. Yeah, no one's talking to us. We don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a story for another podcast. But wow, that was

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Speaker 1: hilarious that that involved, Like, because there's so much good

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Speaker 1: that goes into a book. There's so much that goes

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Speaker 1: into a book. There's so many different people involved, and

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Speaker 1: so of course Samantha and I don't know right, but

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Speaker 1: Janey was great in that and it was just so confident,

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Speaker 1: like watching her in these meetings and watching her like

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Speaker 1: she what she did know. She was like, no, this

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Speaker 1: will work in this moet, this will work in this moment.

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Speaker 1: Like that was amazing to watch and it was much

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Speaker 1: needed because yeah, you and I were like, what if

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Speaker 1: we two write this, Yeah, and I will say for

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Speaker 1: this world. She also told us when we should advocate

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Speaker 1: for ourselves, because we would have just been like, okay,

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Speaker 1: they said no, and she would push back, Nope, this

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Speaker 1: is not they can do this. It's kind of like

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Speaker 1: having that behind us to give us the confidence to

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Speaker 1: note these things and not being taken advantage of. So again,

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Speaker 1: there's no way in hell I think we could have

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Speaker 1: gotten this guy without Janie. No no, And that was

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Speaker 1: on the table at one point listeners and I shudder sharing.

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Speaker 1: I shudder to think it would have been a messout her.

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Speaker 1: And that's not anything to say about you or me.

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Speaker 1: It's just that's not our skill set. That's not that's

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Speaker 1: not a thing. We know nothing about the book world.

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Speaker 1: And again, it is a completely different world when it

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Speaker 1: comes to jobs. Why would we Why would we as

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Speaker 1: individuals know anything about publishing world, Not even BookWorld, but

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Speaker 1: publishing world. It is a whole different beast that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't ready to tackle. In my mind, I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 1: this is how you write fiction. This is not fiction,

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Speaker 1: like we took portions and made some fictional elements, but

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Speaker 1: the reality of the most but the actual book of

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Speaker 1: it is nonfiction, historical contexts and or current events. So

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Speaker 1: having that, it's again a different beast in what is

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Speaker 1: being required of us. M You know, as much as

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Speaker 1: we are very excited, and I think I'm getting to

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Speaker 1: the point I can't speak for you. I'm getting to

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Speaker 1: the point that I'm confident in the book. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's so many like I am a naysayer, so i'd

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Speaker 1: always think the worst before the best, so that I'm

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Speaker 1: pleasantly surprised. So I'm trying not to be pessimistic, but like,

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Speaker 1: you know, really getting to the point I'm like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a book. I guess that's the reality of

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Speaker 1: like be like, okay, it's a book. Yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you know, we would not have done this. I would

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Speaker 1: not have done this on my own. We'll say like that, no.

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Speaker 1: And I want to be clear because I have felt

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Speaker 1: strange throughout this because the whole thing is a strange situation.

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Speaker 1: To have a podcast that turns into a book, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of new. I've always to get something published. I've

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Speaker 1: tried to get something published and have failed. So I

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Speaker 1: don't want anyone listening to be like, it's just I'm

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Speaker 1: very happy it's happening. It's just the way that it

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Speaker 1: happened was very stressful. I think probably publishing a book

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Speaker 1: is always stressful. But if it sounds like we're complaining

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Speaker 1: and you're like, well, you're so lucky you got it published.

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Speaker 1: I hear you, but it just what it was. It

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Speaker 1: was like a very stressful thing and the topic was

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Speaker 1: very stressful. Some of the subjects we talked about were

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Speaker 1: like personally very difficult. And I'll say, like we did

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Speaker 1: write it. I think we wrote it from August to February,

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Speaker 1: and that was like every weekend where I would be

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Speaker 1: like literally at my computer crying like sometimes because of

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Speaker 1: the topic I was writing about researching and that's what

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Speaker 1: I was doing with my weekends. And there is a

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Speaker 1: like dark part of me that's going to miss that

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Speaker 1: excuse of like leave me alone. I have to write

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Speaker 1: this book. But when I look back on this, I'm

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Speaker 1: hoping what I'll feel is like, yeah, like these fun

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Speaker 1: feelings for Helen and Jane and for you because somehow

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Speaker 1: you and I wrote a book together and didn't kill

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Speaker 1: each other, right, But it was a very stressful time.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to sugarcoat it. I'm very happy that

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Speaker 1: it's I'm proud of what we did, but it was stressful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. We found a new appreciation for all

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Speaker 1: the authors out there who do this as their job

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Speaker 1: because it is it is a thing. And we've always

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Speaker 1: said that when we've had authors on our show or

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Speaker 1: like you published a book that's amazing, congratulations, you know,

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Speaker 1: feeling that seeing the side of it like oh wow,

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Speaker 1: and again it kind of was a little more again

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Speaker 1: and all the ideas what we created was brand new

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Speaker 1: to us, our brainchild, like it was mine and Andy's brainchild.

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Speaker 1: We thought of this, we created this, We wrote this,

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Speaker 1: So I don't I'm not try to take that away.

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Speaker 1: We did it woo. But the way it came out

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Speaker 1: it was very catered. The way that we have already

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Speaker 1: got publishers waiting for it. We've got people who are

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Speaker 1: in the marketing like hopefully it's going to do something

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Speaker 1: with it outside of us talking about it on the show.

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Speaker 1: We had editors waiting for us, we had an agent

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Speaker 1: waiting for us, like all those things. Because it is

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Speaker 1: an iheartbook, which is why it is the stuff you

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Speaker 1: should read books dot com because there's other books on

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Speaker 1: there from previous How Stuff Works shows that are on

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Speaker 1: there as well, which you should go and check out

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Speaker 1: if you haven't their books. But you know that there's

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Speaker 1: so much to this, like it is an unusual circumstance,

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Speaker 1: and we acknowledge both the privilege and both the stress

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Speaker 1: of given that responsibility because we want to be able

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Speaker 1: to say these things, tell these stories. But there's also

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Speaker 1: these anxiety which kept me up. I would have nightmares

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Speaker 1: I think I told you about some of them, about

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Speaker 1: this book, about if we failed writing this book, and

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Speaker 1: what does that look like? And how dare we even

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Speaker 1: say we have we should have this opportunity to talk

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Speaker 1: about it? How dare we think that we have the

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Speaker 1: rights to talk about it? And we had to change

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Speaker 1: some of the ideas because it was already so dark

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Speaker 1: that the way we had figured it out, It's like

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Speaker 1: it was going to be too dark. It was too dark. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I would say for me it might sound silly

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Speaker 1: and contradictory, but there's something about writing a thing down

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Speaker 1: that feels more permanent than just you and me talk

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Speaker 1: about this podcast, right, And so I know you and

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Speaker 1: I have talked about it, But I'm just hoping that

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Speaker 1: some people in my life won't ever know that I

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Speaker 1: did this, because they'll just be bad at me that

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Speaker 1: I published it, and not that I really want to

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Speaker 1: cater to them, but it just feels more like they

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Speaker 1: don't know what a podcast is. They're never going to

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Speaker 1: find it. A book feels in some ways more permanent,

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Speaker 1: and that was part of the stress for me when

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Speaker 1: I was writing out some things where maybe I'd never

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Speaker 1: written it down before, and I was like, this feels

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Speaker 1: really heavy and really real in a way that even

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Speaker 1: if I've talked about on the show, and I know

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00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 1: this is also like people the internet in theory you

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Speaker 1: can find anything forever, but it doesn't feel the same

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Speaker 1: if it's not like a physical media. I guess so.

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Speaker 1: I also it's very stressed about it. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: all of that being said, we are excited to share

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Speaker 1: it with all of you. We might be going on tour,

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Speaker 1: We're not sure yet, but we'll keep you posted about

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. We'll keep checking in about this.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll have some more stuff to say, some

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Speaker 1: more social media things. But yeah, we wrote a book.

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Speaker 1: We wrote a book. Yes, yes, yes, Also there's going

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Speaker 1: to be an audiobook, which I am very stressed about

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Speaker 1: but also very excited about. We haven't done the recording yet,

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Speaker 1: but oh god, who knows. Maybe they'll hate what we

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Speaker 1: do and they'll cut it. Oh oh oh No, I'm

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00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: sure I'll be fine. I'm sure I'll be fine. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: more to Kim, More to Kim. But in the meantime, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the book will be out on August twenty and ninth.

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Speaker 1: You can pree thank you for always reminding me of that. Yes,

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00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: you can pre order it as stuff you should read

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00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: books dot com. You can also see an excerpt with

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Speaker 1: some beautiful art Last of Us themed. You can check

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00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: out our social media for the cover reveal and also

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00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: the links to pre order the book as well. In

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Speaker 1: those if you would like to email as you can

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Speaker 1: our emails Stephanie and mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at momst podcast, or

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've Never told you.

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Speaker 1: Thanks as always too, all right, super producer Christina, our

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Speaker 1: executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey. Thank you baby much. Yes, also,

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Speaker 1: this could not happen without them. Yes, and thanks to

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Speaker 1: you for listening, Steph, I Never told you s protection

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00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: of I Heeart radio from more podcast in my Heart Radio.

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00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: You can check out the high Radio app, Apple podcast

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00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: or wherever we listen to your favorite shows