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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any Ann Smith and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: Never Told You, a production by Her Radio, and we

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Speaker 1: are back with part two of our classic on the

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Speaker 1: legacy of Hugh Hefner that was inspired by our recent

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Speaker 1: viewing of a Sex and the City episode that he.

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Speaker 2: Was featured in.

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Speaker 1: This is something that we did with Bridget and it

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Speaker 1: just the conversation sprawled, it spiraled into something much bigger

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Speaker 1: and it had to become a two parter. Yes, so

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Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Anna and Samantha and.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to steff one Never Told You production If I

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Speaker 1: Hurt Radio, And welcome to the second part of the

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Speaker 1: two parter accidental two parter that we did with Bridget Todd,

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Speaker 1: great friend of the show about Hugh Hefner and legacy

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Speaker 1: of Hugh Hefner.

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Speaker 2: We just got going.

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Speaker 1: And there was a lot to say, so much to say. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we had to split it up. Go listen to

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Speaker 1: part one if you haven't already.

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Speaker 3: May be confusing. If you don't, it might be.

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Speaker 1: It might be, but then come back.

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Speaker 4: And just kind of like the last one. If you did,

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Speaker 4: listen to the part one of this accidental part two

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Speaker 4: that I am so infamous for of the legacy of

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Speaker 4: Hugh Hefner. Content warning for all the things we are

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Speaker 4: going to talk about, examples of sexual assault, rape, drug abuse, soliciting, trafficking, death, murder,

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Speaker 4: like all the things. It is all up in here.

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Speaker 4: It is as gruesome as you think. It is pretty horrifying.

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Speaker 4: Not to discourage you, but to let you know what's

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Speaker 4: coming up. Of course, we're going to have a pretty

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Speaker 4: detailed conversation about some of the implications this does leave behind.

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Speaker 1: So in the last episode we were deep into conversation

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Speaker 1: about Hugh Hefner and Playboy and the exploitation and trafficking

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Speaker 1: and abuse that was happening there, and how controlling so

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Speaker 1: much of it was, and how the pr machine really

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Speaker 1: did a great job at hiding it or repackaging it

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Speaker 1: making it look really nice. So we are going to

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Speaker 1: jump in right where we left off and dig into

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Speaker 1: that a little bit more.

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Speaker 5: Some of the most desrbing stuff that I recall from

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Speaker 5: these memoirs is what it was like to be sexual

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Speaker 5: with you, and what it was like as one of

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Speaker 5: the one of his girlfriends in the house, the ways

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Speaker 5: in which you had to mold yourself to this very

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Speaker 5: specific version of a woman's sexuality that is being dictated

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Speaker 5: by Hume and Hue alone is wild. Probably the most

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Speaker 5: shocking thing that haunts me to this day. It haunts

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Speaker 5: me is a revelation that during these orgies, rather than

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Speaker 5: using lubricant like a water based loube that you bite

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Speaker 5: him the store at Ky Jelly, Hugh Hefner insisted on

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Speaker 5: using baby oil. If you have a vagina, you know

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Speaker 5: that scented baby oil in your vagina is the most horrific.

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Speaker 2: Thing I can imagine.

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Speaker 5: So these women would be getting regular national infections while

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Speaker 5: having to have sex with you Hefner Knightley.

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Speaker 2: They pleaded with the woman who was.

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Speaker 5: Sort of like in charge of doing his bidding, like,

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Speaker 5: please let us just use regular lube. We're all getting

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Speaker 5: vational infections and we're all having sex constantly.

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Speaker 2: And they would sometimes.

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Speaker 5: Try to switch it out, like they would put lube

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Speaker 5: in the baby oil bottle.

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Speaker 2: But somehow Hugh always knew.

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Speaker 5: And That's what I'm saying, Like, you are so committed

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Speaker 5: to this very specific visualization of what this sexual fantasy

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Speaker 5: is like that you don't even care that it is

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Speaker 5: preventing you from being able to like actually have sex

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Speaker 5: because the women will always have vational infections. Crystalline here

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Speaker 5: her memoir talks about how it got so bad that

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Speaker 5: she would have anal sex with him when it was

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Speaker 5: her night to have sex.

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Speaker 2: With him because it was like, well that was like a.

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Speaker 5: Million times better than just getting a bad vational infection

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Speaker 5: from this baby oil in my vagina.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, like that just it just sounds like again,

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Speaker 4: this is just control, Like this has nothing to do

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Speaker 4: with actual pleasure or any of that for him, Like

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Speaker 4: this doesn't really change much from like a good lubricant

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Speaker 4: versus baby oil. That that this is just about, Oh

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Speaker 4: I want this because I said this thing can change this.

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Speaker 4: This is and again that's a form of control and

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Speaker 4: abuse that happens so often within relationships, which, by the way,

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Speaker 4: like even for interviews, and I think these things were

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Speaker 4: coming out a lot before these documentaries and memoirs that

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Speaker 4: people just randomly, Yo, we got a thousand dollars a week.

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Speaker 4: We had to go ask for it, and we knew

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Speaker 4: we asked for it. You know, it meant that he's

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Speaker 4: gonna give us a chart and rating, and that we

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Speaker 4: couldn't leave. We left, We had to have people with

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Speaker 4: us obviously, but he gave us everything. He gave me

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Speaker 4: a car, he gave me a dog, and we had

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Speaker 4: a salon for a little while until we abused it,

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 3: But people were.

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Speaker 4: Normally this is like, yeah, okay, that's what you agreed with, right,

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Speaker 4: and not anybody saying yo, that's not cold, like yo,

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Speaker 4: that's that's like a literal re like what is happening.

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Speaker 4: This is the most controlling tactic that we If we

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Speaker 4: saw that in our friends in relationship, they'll'd be like,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna get murdered.

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Speaker 3: You need to leave.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's one of the things I keep getting hung

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Speaker 1: up on about this is that we as a society

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Speaker 1: have co signed on this is okay by being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: well he did these other things where it's you know,

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Speaker 1: women so long have been valued on their body, their desirability,

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Here's where you can make money.

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Speaker 1: But let's like paint it real nice. And one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I think about a lot is you

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Speaker 1: started to use feminism. You have never started to use

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Speaker 1: feminism to be like, see, it's all good for the

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Speaker 1: women here because of feminism. This was happening at the

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Speaker 1: time of the sexual Revolution, the second wave feminism of

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Speaker 1: the seventies, and there was this backlash against it. But

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Speaker 1: then it's almost horrifyingly amazing how well the pr of

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Speaker 1: Playboy did at turning it into well, we've seen the

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Speaker 1: sexual revolution. You ladies just want to have sex, right.

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Speaker 3: Here you go.

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Speaker 1: Now, now we get like a feminist stamp of approval,

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Speaker 1: which is wild.

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Speaker 5: You ladies want reoccurring vational infections.

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Speaker 4: I mean they really wanted to tell to pretend like,

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Speaker 4: as long as you're not in the kitchen and raising children,

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Speaker 4: this is feminists, Which is kind of that big conversation

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Speaker 4: with what was kind of wrong with feminism at that

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Speaker 4: point in time and being like, this is not what

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Speaker 4: this is not all feminism. This is not what we

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Speaker 4: were saying when we said equality not to be like

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Speaker 4: just because you give us a you pay us to

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Speaker 4: not have children and to not have for some of

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Speaker 4: us and not being in the house and have a

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Speaker 4: job that is atypical and I'm quoting or doing things

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Speaker 4: where I can show something proudly where my you know,

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Speaker 4: other people would be shamed of. This is not necessarily

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Speaker 4: what we're talking about in feminism. There was an article

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Speaker 4: with New Statesmen talking about his co opting of feminism

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Speaker 4: for his empire, and it says, if you ask Hugh Hefner,

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Speaker 4: he'll tell you he was a feminist before there was

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Speaker 4: such a thing as feminism. And again, it's just one

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Speaker 4: of those narcissistic things where like I did this before you. Hey, women,

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Speaker 4: I saved you.

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Speaker 3: You're welcome.

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Speaker 5: And also is the thing he was doing this before

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Speaker 5: women like Mary Wolstengregg, Like what.

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Speaker 2: Does that even mean?

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Speaker 5: That's right, just not true. There's no way that's true. Like,

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Speaker 5: you didn't start the feminist movement, man, my guy.

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Speaker 2: Like you just didn't.

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Speaker 3: It's not your thing. This is not you and going

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Speaker 3: to continue.

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Speaker 4: This week, Cosmopolitan republished He's love letter to himself, arguing

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Speaker 4: that feminism was his own worst enemy. So we're guessing

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Speaker 4: this is around the time they're like, yo, this is

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Speaker 4: not feminism, sh playboy being the true source of women's liberation. Everybody,

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Speaker 4: he writes, if they got their head on straight, wants

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Speaker 4: to be sexual object. This piece was originally published in

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Speaker 4: two thousand and seven, but has been making the same

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Speaker 4: argument since the nineteen sixties, and in fact, the magazine

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Speaker 4: did promote their own version of women's lib back then,

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Speaker 4: supporting reproductive rights and of course, sexual liberation. The Playboy

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Speaker 4: Foundation even donated generously to abortion rights organizations and the

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Speaker 4: American Civil Liberties Union ACLU to fund daycare centers. Longtime

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Speaker 4: senior editor Natt Lehrman said, the magazine quote came out

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Speaker 4: on these important feminist issues before feminists had figured out

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Speaker 4: what their issues were.

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Speaker 1: Wow, just to know, I do have to say we

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Speaker 1: talked about Playboy in our book, because yes, they in

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Speaker 1: part helped with the putting together of rape kits, which

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Speaker 1: is something that we must live with and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what to do about. I don't know what to

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Speaker 1: do about it.

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Speaker 4: But yes, but in that same article they do kind

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Speaker 4: of call it out and say, claiming to support women's

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Speaker 4: rights while simultaneously insisting on our objectification was unconvincing for

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Speaker 4: the second wave. But the times they are changing, and

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Speaker 4: the kind of feminism presented to today's liberal doesn't seem

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Speaker 4: so far off from the magazine's ethos in an era

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Speaker 4: that ascribes empowerment to everything from breast implants to new

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Speaker 4: selfies to pole dancing classes. And when the hardest conversation

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Speaker 4: of twenty fourteen was Beyonce's feminism. It only makes sense

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Speaker 4: that the magazine, when it doubled down on their efforts

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Speaker 4: to capitalize on the movement. Playboy's existence relies on the

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Speaker 4: notion of women as sexually liberated proponents of free love.

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Speaker 4: As such, the introduction of the birth control pill in

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Speaker 4: America was deeply connected to not only women's liberation, but

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Speaker 4: to the sexual revolution. Women can now have sex like men,

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Speaker 4: no streams attached. Playboy was crafting a version of women's

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Speaker 4: lib that was, in the end still male centered. Women

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Speaker 4: were permitted to be sexual, but within the confines of

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Speaker 4: a one dimensional view of sexuality that had to in

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Speaker 4: the end satisfy men.

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Speaker 3: So there's so many.

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Speaker 4: Points to this, because any you and I have talked

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Speaker 4: about this repeatedly, how to the point that Bumble fumbled

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Speaker 4: their thing. We just recently had an episode about how, say,

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Speaker 4: chassidy is not going to be the thing, y'all, You're

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Speaker 4: not going to stick to that come on type of

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Speaker 4: thing to come after women who have decided to stop

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Speaker 4: having sex, or about celibacy or whatever what, or women

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Speaker 4: who is just a sexual that had come into a

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Speaker 4: criticism of that that that being a sexual or vowing

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Speaker 4: celibacy is also like almost anti feminists in some certain realms,

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Speaker 4: like now that we have our sexual liberation to go

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Speaker 4: backwards quote unquote and not having sex. You know that

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Speaker 4: that extreme version which is like no, but we're talking

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Speaker 4: about choice here, which is so often gets left off

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Speaker 4: the table in conversation and in this level of like, yes,

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Speaker 4: they played so hard upon it that they shame you

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Speaker 4: for not being okay with it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's the damned if you do, damned if you don't.

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Speaker 1: If you're a woman, if you have sex, you're a slut.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to believe you if you say you

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Speaker 1: come forward about Hugh Hefner, if you don't have sex,

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Speaker 1: then you're approved, and Hugh Heffner wouldn't want you run away.

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Speaker 1: And they say that like it's a threat. But unfortunate,

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Speaker 1: I mean, unfortunately, we are taught like sexual desirability is

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Speaker 1: a thing and you should want it. Not you should want,

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Speaker 1: but you feel like you should. And I've spoken about

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Speaker 1: that my experience with that too. But it is so

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Speaker 1: bizarre to me that when we're having this conversation, it's

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Speaker 1: just like we're trying to make ourselves feel better about

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Speaker 1: rape culture. That's just what it feels like to me

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Speaker 1: is that we're trying to make ourselves feel better about

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Speaker 1: the fact that women are still mostly judged on their

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Speaker 1: body and use their desirability towards men. And Hugh Hefner's

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Speaker 1: a good guy, so you should go with it. And

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Speaker 1: here's all these examples examples as to why we can

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Speaker 1: feel okay about it.

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Speaker 2: That's just.

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Speaker 1: That's the vibe.

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Speaker 4: It's right, I think the lean in well that again.

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Speaker 4: I have to say this again about corporations anyway in general,

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Speaker 4: the way they co op things for their own for capitalism,

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Speaker 4: Like in general, whether it's the queer movement LGBTQ month

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Speaker 4: or whether it's like Black History Month, whether it's Women's Month,

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Speaker 4: they do things for name only in order to gain

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Speaker 4: more power. And this sexual liberation was a reach for.

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Speaker 5: Power, and it's no coincidence that they are the ones

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Speaker 5: financially benefiting from it.

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Speaker 2: So it's like convincing us.

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Speaker 5: To be super cool with our own exploitation and being

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Speaker 5: a cog in this machine.

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Speaker 2: Of rape culture.

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Speaker 5: They cash a check from that, right, and so it's

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Speaker 5: like it's just exploitation the whole way.

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Speaker 4: Down, right. I did find the interesting conversation about Gloria Stein,

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Speaker 4: I'm going undercover as a bunny, and she talked about

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Speaker 4: her experience and how immediately from jump she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: this is not good. Yeah, the costumes are bad. I'm

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Speaker 4: gocked at the first thing I was told. I was like,

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Speaker 4: the first thing someone yelled at me as I walked

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Speaker 4: into the club was bunny, Bunny, come here, bibe men

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Speaker 4: of course, and then one of the things that they touted,

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Speaker 4: And they didn't really talk much about this part in

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Speaker 4: the documentary. I don't know if you had any in

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Speaker 4: their memoirs that yes, they actually got pretty good pay.

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Speaker 4: So I think they were paid the equivalent like two

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Speaker 4: to three hundred dollars a week, which would equal out

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Speaker 4: to be about seventeen hundred to twenty six hundred dollar

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Speaker 4: I guess today in its value.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's true or not, but the

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Speaker 3: amount that.

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Speaker 4: They had to pay back to the club for the

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Speaker 4: upkeep actually took home a lot less. They had to

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Speaker 4: pay for their own shoes, they had to pay for

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Speaker 4: any mending of their costume, they had to pay for

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Speaker 4: like any appearance upkeep, the nylons, their stocking or pante hose,

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Speaker 4: whatever tights now I don't know. He's been called so

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Speaker 4: many things their makeup, all of the different things they're

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Speaker 4: like standards or beauty. So whether that's getting facials or

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Speaker 4: nails done or hair done or whatever, they had to

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Speaker 4: upkeep because if they did not upkeep those things they

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Speaker 4: were done, they would be demoted and moved around. They

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Speaker 4: did talk about the fact that the costumes, if you

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Speaker 4: did not fit into their costumes, you had emotions and

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Speaker 4: you were suspended until you could. So at one point

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Speaker 4: a woman came in. She talked about the fact that

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Speaker 4: they were like, you look cute, but you need to

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Speaker 4: lose ten pounds by next Monday to get into the

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Speaker 4: coast or you're not going to be here.

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Speaker 5: It's I mean, if it was like on Monday, next Monday,

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Speaker 5: I have to assume a seven days.

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Speaker 4: Right, it was a more time, obviously, like no matter what.

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Speaker 4: The longest she had was like ten days, right, Like

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Speaker 4: it was absurd and like they made sure that that

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Speaker 4: was the point. They were talking about how their shoes

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Speaker 4: are so tight or small that they would take their feet,

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Speaker 4: blit bloody feet, put it into their toilet and flush

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Speaker 4: the commode repeatedly to get cold water and get the

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Speaker 4: swelling down so that they could spit back into their

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Speaker 4: shoes and go back out.

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Speaker 3: They had the bunny bend. Did you read about this

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Speaker 3: at all?

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Speaker 4: Which where because the corset it's so tight, but you

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Speaker 4: had to One of them showed an example where they're

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Speaker 4: facing away from the table. They're slightly cocked to the side,

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Speaker 4: but they have to dip lean back a little bit

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Speaker 4: with the drink in their hand all the way down

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Speaker 4: and then put it on the table as if you

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Speaker 4: like a contortionist, but never facing the table. It was

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Speaker 4: the most absurd thing that I ever heard in my life.

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Speaker 4: I was like, that looks so like And she was

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Speaker 4: an older woman showing and I was like, nah, I

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Speaker 4: can't do that today.

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Speaker 2: That's bizarre.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something that I that really strikes me about

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Speaker 5: the memoirs of some of the more recent women from

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Speaker 5: Girls next Door, how just how strange some of the

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Speaker 5: stuff is, like being in this orbit, some of the

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Speaker 5: expectations are just bizarre and are cane and specific and

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Speaker 5: just yeah, just like a really weird, difficult thing to

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Speaker 5: have to maintain and have your financial livelihood kind of

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Speaker 5: depend on.

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Speaker 4: Right, But not only that, this level of like so

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Speaker 4: they touted again that level of like they protect the women.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we saw in the article how they

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Speaker 4: would kick people out if they did these things, if

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Speaker 4: they asked for these things, if they touched the bunnies.

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Speaker 4: Apparently that was the like they talked about that rule,

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Speaker 4: do not touch the bunnies. If you touch the bunnies,

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Speaker 4: you're kicked out. You cannot have and the only way

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Speaker 4: you can get into the club was like having a

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Speaker 4: key or a key ring specifically, and like that's how

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Speaker 4: you get in and you get the drinks and all

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Speaker 4: these great things.

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Speaker 3: Is a big show.

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Speaker 4: You're someone someone if you got these things. But if

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Speaker 4: you touch the bunnies, you're out. But two, there was

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Speaker 4: a twofold where yeah, that happened in the club. The

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Speaker 4: minute they were outside of that club, it was done.

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Speaker 4: They had no security, They had no one follow out.

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Speaker 4: Even if the women reported that they were being stalked

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Speaker 4: by someone or that if someone was coming after them,

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Speaker 4: they did not care. They were like, eh, literally someone

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Speaker 4: who was a bunny mother who essentially like was the

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Speaker 4: boss or manager.

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Speaker 3: But you know you have to give a cute name.

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Speaker 4: Bunny mother of course was I was told by several

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Speaker 4: women that they were being followed, they're being stalked.

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Speaker 3: They were afraid for their lives.

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Speaker 4: They're afraid that they were gonna get kidnappyre afraid they're

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Speaker 4: gonna be assaulted. When she would tell the security team,

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Speaker 4: they were like, Eh, it's not a problem outside the club.

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Speaker 4: They're big girls. They can handle themselves. Literally being told that,

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Speaker 4: she's like what. So they would try to write these

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Speaker 4: incidents about what was happening some of the big some

348
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Speaker 4: of the people in the documentary. But on top of that,

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Speaker 4: there was another level of being in the club that

350
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 4: was a card, so think like gold card or like

351
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Speaker 4: one of those metal cards, in which they were given

352
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Speaker 4: unlimited access and they could do whatever they wanted, and

353
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Speaker 4: they did. Now they would never co worce the women necessarily,

354
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Speaker 4: but they were encouraged to flirt a lot and take

355
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Speaker 4: it as you will type of conversations. And when incidents

356
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Speaker 4: would happen, instead of helping, giving therapy, protecting, they women

357
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 4: were fired and they had what they called the cleanup

358
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Speaker 4: crew to come and fix the situation. So whether it's

359
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 4: to make sure to hush people up or to put

360
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Speaker 4: it under the radar, because they did not need negative

361
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Speaker 4: things about their clubs or any of the people they

362
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Speaker 4: talked about. One of the hosts of the Soul Train

363
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,879
Speaker 4: taking a woman, kidnapping her and logging her up in

364
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Speaker 4: his room and the only way she was able to

365
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,360
Speaker 4: escape was she had called them and she was able

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Speaker 4: to get out and see her another person. But he

367
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 4: was still allowed at the club. He was never revoked

368
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Speaker 4: because he was so high in the level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's it's just such a level of disposable, right,

370
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Speaker 1: how we see women as disposable. Once you age out,

371
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Speaker 1: once you can't do this move, once you're not desirable anymore.

372
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Speaker 1: You're just not important to us other than the money

373
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Speaker 1: that you can make us.

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Speaker 4: Right, if you've been used up and you're going to

375
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Speaker 4: cause us trouble And this is again like I want

376
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Speaker 4: to vomit just saying those words, but those are the

377
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 4: terms that go through. And if you're going to cause

378
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 4: us money, make us, give us a loss of money,

379
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Speaker 4: you're nothing to us.

380
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Speaker 2: Goodbye.

381
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Speaker 5: When Kendra on Girls next Door asked to be paid

382
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Speaker 5: to be on the show, they.

383
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Speaker 2: Were like, we're not going to pay you.

384
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Speaker 5: You're all replaceable and disposable, and that like that idea

385
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 5: of replaceability that there's you know, a bunch of women

386
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 5: who would kill to be here, that'll take your spot

387
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 5: like that if you can plain or cause us trouble.

388
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Speaker 5: How much that was used to keep the whole thing going, Like,

389
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Speaker 5: it's so interesting, hearing Sam, hearing you describe what it

390
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 5: was like in these clubs in the sixties and seventies

391
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Speaker 5: and how that same thing was being used in the

392
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 5: nineties and two thousands to continue to silence and keep

393
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Speaker 5: these women doing what they wanted.

394
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Speaker 1: Right.

395
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Speaker 4: Yeah, there were some other stories that I was just like,

396
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: my god, like some of the things where like people

397
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 4: were actually arrested, but again the women were just fired

398
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 4: and everybody was told to be quiet, and no one

399
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,199
Speaker 4: knew about it, even the people who worked in the

400
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 4: same clubs and like would hear like legends of things

401
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 4: and be like what, I didn't know this, what is happening?

402
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 4: And then the other to this is to me And

403
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 4: I find this interesting because I'm sure you caught up

404
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 4: on this in the memoirs. If whatever reason, Hugh Hefner

405
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 4: lost control of a person for the next round of relationships,

406
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 4: he upped the ante like he would do ten times more.

407
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 4: Because I remember the Shannon twins talking about the fact

408
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,639
Speaker 4: that she was like okay, when we came in, Holly

409
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 4: would talk about her her experiences, and then when the

410
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 4: Shannon twins come in would be like, oh, yeah, we

411
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 4: couldn't do that anymore. They wouldn't let us have that

412
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,360
Speaker 4: because it caused for Holly to be able to leave

413
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 4: or Kindred to be able to leave, and so Hugh

414
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 4: Hefner would twist that up so that would be harder

415
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 4: and harder for people to leave.

416
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the way like yes, and the way that

417
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 5: surveillance was used, like there's only one phone and it's

418
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 5: in the hall, so you can't have.

419
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: Any kind of private conversation.

420
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 5: So it's like, again, these are not things that are

421
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 5: happening in a living situation where people are there completely willingly.

422
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, they're just not right, Like, nobody surveils my

423
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 5: phone calls other than.

424
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: The US government.

425
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 5: I bet the person that I meant to be in

426
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 5: our relationship with.

427
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 2: That is not normal. And we were like all.

428
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 5: Watching that on TV like oh this is great, like right, yeah,

429
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 5: totally wholesome, normal stuff.

430
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 4: It was honestly baffling to go through in these conversations

431
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: because obviously I'm bouncing back and forth to his empire

432
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 4: and what his empire was doing, which he still like

433
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: had heavy hand in. So when it came to like

434
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: the Playboy clubs, yes, he had underlings who did what

435
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 4: he wanted without him necessarily coming through and being in

436
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 4: the front, you know, the face of it. But then

437
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,679
Speaker 4: we have what's happening with a mansion with things like

438
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 4: girls next door and the girlfriends and the wives and

439
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: the situations.

440
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 3: Where he is catering or he is creating.

441
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 4: This chaos and is the face of this chaos like that,

442
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 4: that's like obviously separate, but both but this entity of

443
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 4: what the level of powers, because it's almost more ominous

444
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 4: to me to hear these about the Playboy clubs and

445
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 4: things that would happen and they literally like organized crime

446
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 4: level of covering things up in order to protect this man.

447
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 4: And that was a conversation that was said almost even

448
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 4: those who were advocating for Hugh Hefner specifically, was like,

449
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 4: what he didn't know, but they were protecting him like

450
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 4: this level.

451
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: But that's my thing.

452
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 5: It's like, I understand that what's happening in the clubs

453
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 5: Hugh Hefner, there's an understanding that he is not personally

454
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 5: dictating those policies.

455
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 2: And all of that happening.

456
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 5: But it's it's obviously related when you look at how

457
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 5: similar it is to how the spheares that he did

458
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 5: have a lot of control over his own domestic sphere,

459
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 5: and people who would say like, oh, well, he didn't

460
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 5: know that was happening, then what is your explanation for

461
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 5: his own.

462
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: Home life that he maintained.

463
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 5: And then hired people to make sure that it was

464
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 5: that it was run to his liking? And I just

465
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 5: can't see those two things as unrela like, oh, there

466
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 5: happened to have been coercive, exploitative, possibly illegal behavior happening here, but.

467
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 2: He had nothing to do with that. However, here's some similar.

468
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 5: Behavior happening decades later in his domestic sphere that was

469
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 5: very similar. Obviously there's a correlate, like a relationship between

470
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 5: those twoth spheres.

471
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 4: You would think it'd be easily like, oh, yeah, dug,

472
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 4: connect the dots, but the people who want to advocate

473
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 4: for him so fiercely refuse to look at those connections.

474
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 4: They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no,

475
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 4: that's not him. They're just trying to pin in that

476
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 4: way is to be a bad guy.

477
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 2: Oh I get this so deeply.

478
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 5: I honestly like this might sound weird, but I feel

479
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 5: for those people who really feel.

480
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: They need to uphold and defend Hugh Hefner.

481
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 5: You know, I'm having the same conversation right now with

482
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 5: a lot of people that I love and respect around Diddy.

483
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: I think there is something.

484
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 5: In our culture where if you have to actually look

485
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 5: at what this person did and represented and the and

486
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 5: what you were complicit in or thought was cool or whatever,

487
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 5: the work is so hard, the revelation is so deep

488
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 5: that it is that it almost forces you to need

489
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 5: jerk be like he would never do that, and if you.

490
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 2: Did do it, they wanted it, or something like that.

491
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 5: Like I you know, I think back to this conversation

492
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 5: that one of the Cosby survivors said a black woman

493
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 5: and she was one of the first black women Cosby

494
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 5: survivors to come out on the record and say what

495
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 5: he did to her. And she was having a conversation

496
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 5: with a black man, and you know, this man came

497
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 5: to her and was like, sister, is it true?

498
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: And she was like, I'm so sorry, but yes.

499
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 5: It is, Like how cruelly we were lied to, how

500
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 5: cruelly we were taken advantage of.

501
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: And I get it.

502
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 5: I get that peeling back the layers of lies that

503
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 5: you believed that you that you felt empowered by is

504
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 5: difficult work. And I can understand why in the face

505
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 5: of that work you would be like, no, I can't

506
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 5: face that. That's too hard. I must defend this institution

507
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 5: because it would mean looking at all the times that,

508
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 5: like people that you would admired or respected played into this,

509
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 5: all the times that you yourself played into it. Like

510
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 5: I really do have empathy for how hard it is

511
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 5: to look at these situations and see them for what

512
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 5: they are.

513
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: Right.

514
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 2: But but like, that's the trip of living in our societies.

515
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 5: You have to you have to be willing to come

516
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 5: to the table and see things clearly and have those

517
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 5: tough conversations to do that work.

518
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, because I did not

519
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 4: realize and I don't know why I did not make

520
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 4: this connection that several of the cases and the allegations

521
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 4: toward Bill Cosby originated from the table mansion that I was.

522
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 3: Like, oh, oh oh.

523
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 4: Because if we had one survivor actually speak about it

524
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 4: and went into really sad detail about what was what

525
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 4: happened specifically with him in this level. There's this other

526
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 4: part of this conversation, which is again a whole other

527
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 4: episode in that yes, the likelihood of because several of

528
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 4: the people that they talked about and accused out loud

529
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 4: named within the playboad Mansion men. Again, we had the

530
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 4: Soul Train I cannot remember his name host at that point.

531
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: Don Cornelius. He was the main okay, yeah, he was.

532
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 4: The main I think train host, and then the football player,

533
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 4: and then Bill Cosby and I think the other one

534
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 4: was finally Roland Polanski and yeah, right, which is like

535
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 4: he's still technically isn't he still out in the beout

536
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 4: he ran away, right, Yeah, he's in.

537
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 5: Europe High Award and like literally, don't even get me

538
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 5: started about that mother, because literally celebrities to this day

539
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 5: and twenty twenty four will go out of their way

540
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 5: to be like, well, you know, his family was killed

541
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 5: in the Holocaust and did he really do anything wrong,

542
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 5: Like like I am so sorry. People that you like

543
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 5: in respect are on the record like whoop.

544
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: Goldberg was like, well it wasn't a rape.

545
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 5: Rape Like to this day, celebrities go out of their

546
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 5: way to defend him, and it makes me want.

547
00:28:52,680 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: To scream, yeah in twenty twenty four to yourself. You

548
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: keep it to yourself.

549
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: I'm talking, why are you why you?

550
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 4: Well keep talking so I can avoid each other missing

551
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 4: I know, never to talk to you or look at

552
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 4: you ever again.

553
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 2: And well you're not my kids around your end. Yeah,

554
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: every time I.

555
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: See you, I know, oh, I know who you are.

556
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 3: I see who you are.

557
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, like this is that bigger conversation is

558
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: like they are more likely to separate. And again, because

559
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: I didn't quite grasp it, I'm like, oh, it's kind

560
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: of a prime example. If Hugh Hefner was kept protected

561
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 4: instead of being held liable for what was happening at

562
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: the parties that he held for the girls that he

563
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 4: is supposed to be responsible for, and I say responsible for,

564
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: there are his employees, people he's supposed to be protecting,

565
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 4: like all of these things, and he came out with nothing,

566
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 4: Like I really did not figure this stuff out with

567
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 4: that case of like, oh my god, all these things

568
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: are awful. This is like all these things even with

569
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: the mention of it, I was like, he he came

570
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 4: out unscathed.

571
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I want to say something about Cosby because.

572
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: And I don't.

573
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 5: I don't want to derail the conversation. But Cosby was

574
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: a known entity to the Playboy Club and Playboy parties, right.

575
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 5: This was when he was making family friendly comedy and

576
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 5: like becoming sort of America's dad. Like when I think

577
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 5: about the way that Girls next Door was sort of

578
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 5: sold that's wholesome and kind of family friendly, squeaky clean,

579
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 5: I keep thinking about Cosby, who his public image was

580
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 5: squeaky clean, wholesome, America's dad, blah blah blah, while he

581
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 5: was going to these Playboy parties, Like how much it

582
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 5: benefits men and allows for men to build up these

583
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 5: these ideas about them in public that don't square with

584
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 5: who they actually are in reality, and it kind of

585
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 5: allows them to test sort of do this in plain sight, right, Like, Oh,

586
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 5: I'm a wholesome guy, but I'm going to the Playboy

587
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 5: Club every night and like sexually assaulting people regularly.

588
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: You know what it's like.

589
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 5: And I guess this whole conversation just goes back to

590
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 5: the way that like pr and media and doing good

591
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 5: things sometimes all is goes back to creating this dynamic

592
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 5: where men get to do whatever they want and.

593
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: People don't ask about it.

594
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 5: Like there's a the dynamic where it's like, well, don't

595
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 5: turnish his legacy. It's like, well, I'm not the one

596
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 5: who told him to show about the Playboy club. That

597
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 5: was him, So why can't that be part of his legacy?

598
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: Like that is his legacy, Like it's right point.

599
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 4: If he did it, if he's known for it, if

600
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 4: he has been doing things that have like literally destroyed

601
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: other lives, that's his legacy. That is a part of

602
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 4: his legacy, and it should be it should be worn

603
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: as proudly as he did it.

604
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: Like that's yeah, Like that's that's the end of the conversation.

605
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 4: And but that's kind of interesting because it does lead

606
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 4: to that other love of like Playboy being so wholesome

607
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 4: and this conversation about the drugs issue like within the

608
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 4: Playboy mansion and who was providing and who was getting,

609
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 4: and the conversation of kaeludes.

610
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, refer to that.

611
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: The fact that.

612
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: Holly again mid two thousands were like, yeah, he had

613
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 4: them in his pocket. They were called he called them

614
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 4: thigh openers. We thought, like she didn't joke about it,

615
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,719
Speaker 4: but she said it so nonchalantly that I'm wondering if

616
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: she caught herself saying that, you know, like it really

617
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 4: was like, oh, he called them mist eye openers, And

618
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 4: maybe it's just her monotone voice in general, like she

619
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 4: doesn't like except for when she's like annoyed, but like

620
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 4: it just sounded like yeah, of course, why wouldn't the

621
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,479
Speaker 4: type of conversation.

622
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 3: That just blew my mind.

623
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 4: But on top of that that this is one of

624
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 4: the drugs that was used throughout a many perpetrator, like

625
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 4: many of the predators who would use different pills like

626
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 4: at that point was the drug of choice for what

627
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 4: it seemed to like be like Hollywood, whether it was Winstein,

628
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 4: whether it's like all of them like wolla, but it

629
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 4: seemed to be a conversation and it seemed like commonplace

630
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: that they just it just was there.

631
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: It blows my mind.

632
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 4: And in this conversation once again that no one is

633
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 4: equating having to use this as rape, like no one

634
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: except for those who are violent, righted.

635
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 5: And I would also add, so, I mean, I don't

636
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 5: even know how to put this.

637
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: If you're Hugh Hefner and you're.

638
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: In your eighties and you are having sex with women,

639
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 5: who are nineteen, and in order to maintain your ability

640
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 5: to do that, you are using quailuds And that's how

641
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 5: that whole thing is happening. How do you also get

642
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 5: to enjoy a public reputation as a you know, real

643
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 5: fox in the bedroom? Like oh like a real like

644
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 5: every like every well, this is such a fantasy, like right,

645
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 5: I guess that's what I'm saying, is like how they've

646
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 5: been able to build up this world where it's like, yeah,

647
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 5: I'm drugging all the women have to be drugged to

648
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 5: have sex with me, and I'm enjoying a public image.

649
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 2: As like the world's best lover.

650
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 5: Like those two things can't be possible except for in

651
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 5: this fantasy land that you've built up around yourself.

652
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: I don't know.

653
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: My image of him has never been that he was

654
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: a good lover. It was just it was accessible.

655
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

656
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 5: In some of these memoirs like he well, first of all,

657
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 5: how good of like if you're getting a vaginal infection, Nope,

658
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 5: that's not sexy, But yeah, he is having sex with

659
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 5: these like young hot women.

660
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: The women. Fun fact, when they would have these.

661
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 5: Orgies, they were a lack because you might be thinking, like, well,

662
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 5: maybe the women are having sex with each other and

663
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 5: like they're getting something out of it if like Q

664
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 5: is not performing good. They were only able to have

665
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 5: simulated lesbian sex with each other.

666
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: They could not, like they could.

667
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 5: Not actually kiss each other or do things with each other.

668
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 5: The women they had to disorder sort of pretend. So

669
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 5: even even that is like, yeah, yeah, you really wanted

670
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 5: to make sure these women got nothing out of this encounter,

671
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 5: that it was as humiliating and unpleasant physically as possible

672
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 5: as possible.

673
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the young twins when she they were

674
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 4: talking Shannon's they were talking about their first experience with

675
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 4: Hugh Hefner. They the way they imply was like it

676
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 4: was was domating, like he the first thing he did

677
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 4: was obviously.

678
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 3: Whatever's his fantasy for.

679
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 4: What, Like it's just a whole level of like oh,

680
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: you just really like decided this is what needs.

681
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 5: To be yes, And I guess it goes back to

682
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 5: what you were saying about, like, oh, well, don't women

683
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 5: want to be sex objects? And like you know, isn't

684
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 5: this liberal liberation where like when the sex is demeaning

685
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 5: and not physically satisfying, it's not like he was like

686
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 5: oh let's make this about your pleasure, like you like, yes,

687
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 5: you can be a sex object.

688
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: So like, what do you want? Like, what do you like?

689
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 2: What are you? What are your likes? What are you

690
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: not like? Let's let's make sure this is about you.

691
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 2: That's not what's going on again.

692
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 5: I think there is a world where somebody somewhere could

693
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 5: create an empire that that truth maybe truly is about a.

694
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 2: Woman's sexual liberation and pleasure.

695
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,879
Speaker 5: However, one where what the woman wants is not does

696
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 5: not even come up, just.

697
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 4: Can't be it right, right, And and there's no mention

698
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 4: of that. I don't even think he talks about it

699
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 4: within his magazines, does he? No, no, no, because he

700
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 4: has to give the girl next door. And girl next

701
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 4: door can have sex, but they can't have sexual desire.

702
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 5: So you're at once made into a sex object, but

703
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 5: like in a way unsexed because you were not talking

704
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 5: about your desires or what you want, right, And you.

705
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 4: Have to fit our ideas so we can deman you,

706
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: and we can be the one to not just the flower,

707
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 4: but essentially take that from you.

708
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 5: It's only liberation if you're being demeaned, ladies, remember that, right.

709
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god?

710
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 4: And there's so much more that we need to be

711
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 4: talking about, because honestly, like this, it went into a

712
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 4: deeper conversation about women, apologizing to women and realizing where

713
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 4: they filled each other in these documentaries. Again, Sonya Theodore

714
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: came into a point like, I am so sorry to

715
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 4: the women that I brought into this.

716
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 3: I did not know. I was scared and I ruined

717
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 3: your life.

718
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 4: Like she came in like a full level of conversation

719
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 4: and like to the point that she felt like she

720
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 4: had Stockholm syndrome because she had gone through these things

721
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 4: thinking it was okay, came back year after year after

722
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 4: the year, after breaking up with him, having these great relationships,

723
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 4: pretending like telling everyone how great he was, and then

724
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 4: realizing like, wait, this was trauma, which is such a

725
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 4: natural story for everyone. There was one point of the

726
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 4: interview I was telling you about the splits of the

727
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 4: documentary where the journalist is talking to a friend of

728
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 4: hers who was a boxer who posed for Playboy, and

729
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 4: she was talking about she could never say the words rape,

730
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 4: she could never say any of these things, but she

731
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 4: said I had to give in because they saw me

732
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 4: as sexual.

733
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 3: I was not for Playboy.

734
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 4: Event this was for her actual career stuff, but describing

735
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 4: an incident where after the fact she got a lot

736
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 4: of posing for Playboy and being.

737
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: Told that she's.

738
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: This now, and she was like, you know, I didn't

739
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 4: want to have sech I told him I didn't want to.

740
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: This person was married, but you know I was a

741
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 4: part of this industry. That's what they expected. I was

742
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 4: a part of their team. So I just went hand

743
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 4: gave in. And the reporter was like, oh my god,

744
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 4: Oh my god. And they were actual friends and she's like,

745
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 4: you never told me this. You never told me this.

746
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 4: She's like, I wouldn't quite say it's rape.

747
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 3: And the friends stopped.

748
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 4: It's like, no, that's rape. You did not want to

749
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: do this, And like the woman sat there, was like

750
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 4: the athletes sat there and was like okay, like kind.

751
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: Of in that level.

752
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 4: But that's what you see playing out as these different

753
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 4: women are talking about these incidents of like not understanding

754
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: consent in the first place, not understanding that what was

755
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: happening was a level of manipulation, and then not understanding

756
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: that they were a part of the trafficking ring when

757
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 4: they were bringing other women in to be a part

758
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 4: of this cycle. So this is such a big conversation

759
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 4: within that. Again, I told about the one woman who

760
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 4: was just going after other women saying, you're just being

761
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,839
Speaker 4: a gold digger. You knew what you were coming into,

762
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: which again that phrase was said so many times, Like

763
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 4: my heart is racing thinking about now, because the phrase

764
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 4: is like you knew what they were we were coming into.

765
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 4: They knew what they were going into, they knew what

766
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 4: this was about, like as if to validate what was happening.

767
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 4: And it's like, but that that wasn't even like honestly

768
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 4: tore into, that wasn't even like opened up to like

769
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,959
Speaker 4: that level of conversation in this documentary because they really

770
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 4: didn't have time and they didn't have the space and

771
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 4: the emotional space to really dig through all of that

772
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 4: because kind of like reliving the stories and saying it

773
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 4: out loud was like, oh, these are the things that happened.

774
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: But again, like.

775
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 4: And there were a couple of accusations of Hugh Hefner

776
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 4: forcibly raping women, which hasn't been said previously, And one

777
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 4: one victim spoke up about what she had gone through,

778
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 4: and I think this one hit too close to me,

779
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 4: like my my own experiences that I almost like threw

780
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: up like what she was talking about through her own childhood. Uh,

781
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 4: and then getting to this point with this man who

782
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 4: she told she was told that this was safe, that

783
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,359
Speaker 4: she was safe, and then being ripped apart, and then

784
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 4: everybody ignoring it, and to the point like she went

785
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 4: to a higher up who was a woman and was like,

786
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: oh my god, this happened.

787
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: She's like, oh, is that all? You're fine?

788
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 4: He's not gonna he's not gonna do anything against you.

789
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 4: You're fine, Like he's not gonna as it would be retaliatory,

790
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 4: or he's not gonna be mean to you for this.

791
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: It's fine. And that was what she had to walk

792
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 3: away with.

793
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 4: But like those levels like yeah, he has been personally

794
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 4: accused of raping women.

795
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 3: That needs to be said out loud.

796
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 4: Uh, though everybody else wants to dance around this whole

797
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 4: like oh you know she had to be talked into

798
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: a little.

799
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 3: Bit, or oh we were being paid or whoa, we

800
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: knew what we were walking into. Do what I like it?

801
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: Did I want to know? Did I have to smoke

802
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 4: a lot of weed? Sure, but we knew, Like that

803
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 4: level be like that's still coorcion, that is still considered

804
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 4: a type of rape that is still goodainst your will,

805
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 4: but like true levels of like that higher level like yeah,

806
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: this dude got away with it.

807
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 3: This dude got away with it.

808
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 4: And in these conversations again like the wider range he

809
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 4: may have got, like there's allegations of him being a

810
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 4: part of cover ups of deaths, allegations of cover ups

811
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 4: of drug trafficking, like literally FBI.

812
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 3: Like there's just level though, and you almost tell.

813
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 4: Me, like there's so much of like the anti like

814
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 4: anti hero conversations, especially when it comes to drug use

815
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 4: and like almost like organized crime level that.

816
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 3: You root for the bad guys, you know what I mean.

817
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: And that's still that part of you of like.

818
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 4: Huh, like people would take that and credit him as

819
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 4: being cool, you know what I mean, even though social

820
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 4: allegations are so gross.

821
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think the moving drugs, you might

822
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 5: look at that and be like, oh, he really knew

823
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 5: how to do what it took to keep the party going.

824
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, also.

825
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 5: Moving women as cargo, ascuable cargo, that.

826
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 3: Part is right, like using them as mules. Yes, yes,

827
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 3: it's not quite cool. This is not the thing.

828
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 4: This is not the thing, but like there's the depths

829
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,360
Speaker 4: of what goes into the story, like the depths of

830
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 4: like things that are hidden. So like we also talked

831
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 4: about the exploitation that he had taken, the tapes they

832
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 4: had taken, the extra photos, and like all of not

833
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 4: only the tapes of them taking pictures being taken, pictures

834
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: of which had been released to the shock of many

835
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 4: of the women, especially like the older women, who had

836
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 4: told that this would never exist because that medium hadn't

837
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 4: existed at that point or didn't think they needed that

838
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 4: at that point, as now being released because Playboy sold

839
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 4: it without any of the women consenting nor getting money

840
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: for it. Once again, and this was not too long ago,

841
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 4: but the actual videos made from the security cameras, Like

842
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 4: from what I gathered, Mickey Garcia and Sonya Theodore actually

843
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: came together and started trying to petition to find out

844
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 4: what was happening or what happened with those videos, because

845
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 4: many of them were so petrified that these would be

846
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 4: released and they were told that it is somewhere in

847
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 4: the sea. Now I'm wondering, like if people heard that

848
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 4: and we're gonna try to find it.

849
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 2: Oh, I think so.

850
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 5: I mean something that you said that six with me

851
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 5: is like he got away with it.

852
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 2: And I feel like where.

853
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 5: We are now in twenty twenty four, I'm happy, Like

854
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 5: I would have said, yes, I remember when he died,

855
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 5: we saw all the conversations about free speech and racial

856
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 5: equity and women's lib and sexual freedom and all of that.

857
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 5: But I and so it does kind of feel like

858
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 5: broadly he got away with it. But I am happy

859
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 5: that we are in a place now where women's voices

860
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 5: are being elevated in this conversation and that we're actually

861
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 5: creating a legacy where maybe he won't get away with it.

862
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 5: Maybe we will continue to speak up and continue to

863
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 5: listen to people who speak up and not just be like, oh,

864
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 5: well they knew what they were getting into their being paid,

865
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 5: and actually have a full accounting of his legacy. And

866
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 5: even for people who like Hugh Hefner, which obviously I

867
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 5: don't think. I don't think anybody will be surprised that

868
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 5: we probably don't fit into that category. You should be

869
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 5: able to contend with his full legacy.

870
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: And this is all part of that legacy. And so

871
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: if you want to honor who he was, honor him fully.

872
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: This is part of that.

873
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 5: Even if you love his free speech and love all

874
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,240
Speaker 5: the other things that he's done. Don't just take the good,

875
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 5: take a full accounting of who the man was.

876
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 3: Right, right, agreed, And you're right.

877
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 4: I think that that's got to be something that we

878
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,919
Speaker 4: have to remember, is that as long as we keep

879
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 4: talking about it and making sure we tell the full story,

880
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: or at least the full story as we know it,

881
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 4: and continue to unfold for the sake of all the

882
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 4: survivor like those who are speaking out, that we support

883
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 4: them by making sure that we elevate their voice.

884
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, obviously we had a lot of thoughts,

885
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: we had a lot to say. So Bridgets, where can

886
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: the good listeners find you?

887
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 5: Well, you can find me at my podcast. There are

888
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 5: no girls on the internet where we were having similar

889
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 5: conversations about the legacy of women and technology and digital media.

890
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: Well, thank you as always, Bridget for being here. We

891
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: love having you. Clearly we could go on and on

892
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: and on, so thank you so much for taking the time.

893
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,720
Speaker 1: And this brings us to the end of our epic

894
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: conversation on Hugh Hefner. Maybe there will be an epilogue,

895
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: as we discussed.

896
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, I honestly there's gonna be so much more because

897
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 4: I honestly forgot one big chunk that Honestly, Hugh Hefner's

898
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 4: real like the beginning may have been because he was

899
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,239
Speaker 4: essentially kind of an in cell. Like he may have

900
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 4: been essentially an in cell because he changed his whole

901
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: perspective on women and what he had to be in

902
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 4: order to get women. So the legend goes because he

903
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: was rejected bio girl in his high school to the

904
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 4: point that he wrote about her for many years later. Wow,

905
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 4: and then this, and then that he changed his whole

906
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 4: appearance and his whole, like I guess out like his

907
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 4: whole personality essentially according to old friends. So yeah, I

908
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 4: think there has to be an epilogue because we definitely,

909
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,759
Speaker 4: even with the two hours that we spent in this conversation,

910
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,479
Speaker 4: there was so much more that we had left out.

911
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 3: Is intense.

912
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 1: It's sad how often that is the case of like

913
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,800
Speaker 1: a guy gets spurned in high school and then becomes

914
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: the founder of Facebook or what have you. Right, that's

915
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: not exactly what happened there, but.

916
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 3: Similar similar to.

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00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: Well, I look forward to and I'm nervous about the epilogue.

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00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: It's always great to hang out with Bridget who's so

919
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: kind with her time when we kept going and had

920
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 1: so much to say. Listeners. If you have any thoughts

921
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: about this, you can contact us. You can email us

922
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: at Stephanie moms Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can

923
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast our, on

924
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at stuff We've.

925
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 3: Never Told You.

926
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. I have a tea public store,

927
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you

928
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always too, our super produced

929
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: Christina are executive producer, my intruder Joey.

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00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 3: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Stuff Never Told You is production of iHeartRadio. For more

932
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out the

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00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: Art Radio Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite

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Speaker 1: shows