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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And now we're tied for the most

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Speaker 1: House Republicans retiring in a century, along with the most

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Speaker 1: Senate Republicans retiring in one cycle. But why it's a mystery.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today that

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Project Zone. Rick Wilson joins us to discuss Trump

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Speaker 1: finally having to fire officials in the administration. Finn will

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Speaker 1: talk to Doug boch Clark about his blockbuster reporting on

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Speaker 1: maga's plotting to rig the midterms. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Bye, I have to tell mister Trump. He's threatening me

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Speaker 2: with a good time, him not doing anything and not

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Speaker 2: signing any more bills and not getting closer to Project

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five being fully instituted. Why would he threaten

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Speaker 2: me with this good time?

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Speaker 1: So today Donald Trump did this truth social post where

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Speaker 1: he said he was going to stop legislating. He was

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Speaker 1: not going to sign anything until Save Act got passed.

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Speaker 1: This is like a desperate thing because Trump is really

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Speaker 1: freaked out about the midterms and he really wants them

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Speaker 1: to pass the Save Act. Now, the Save Act. The

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Speaker 1: only way the Save Act passes is if they kill

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Speaker 1: the filibuster, and the only way they killed the filibuster

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Speaker 1: is if they have fifty plus votes for that. And

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Speaker 1: if they kill the filibuster, it means that the Senate

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Speaker 1: will forever be totally different. It will mean that Trump,

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Speaker 1: when he leaves the presidency, would pray to God he

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Speaker 1: will that the Senate will most likely work like the House.

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Speaker 1: John Thune is the majority leader. He tends to be

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Speaker 1: a person who is very much a traditionalist. So I

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Speaker 1: think it's unlikely that they're going to be able to

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Speaker 1: do this, but they certainly would like to. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: the point of this threat is Trump is desperate. He's

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Speaker 1: really worried about the midterms. He really wants to pass

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Speaker 1: this law. And so what he's doing is he's threatening

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Speaker 1: to not pass any more legislation. But the joke is,

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Speaker 1: my man only ever passes about two pieces of legislation

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Speaker 1: this year. You know, he's passed some like crs or whatever,

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Speaker 1: but basically the only thing he passed was the tax cut.

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Speaker 1: And in twenty seventeen, the only thing he passed basically

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Speaker 1: was the tax cut. So the one thing is that

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Speaker 1: we are in a homeland security shutdown, so that is

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Speaker 1: one thing that needs to be passed that he needs

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Speaker 1: to sign, But that is really it. So the idea

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Speaker 1: that somehow him not signing bills is some kind of

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Speaker 1: revenge on the American people is kind of hilarious and insane.

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Speaker 2: Agreed.

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Speaker 3: So, I don't know about you, but I'm tired of winning.

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Speaker 2: So one of the things that makes me feel like

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Speaker 2: we're really winning is when you see reports that the

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Speaker 2: White House is blucking an intelligence report warning of rights

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Speaker 2: in US homeland terror threats linked to the Iran worth.

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Speaker 2: It really feels like a recipe for women.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is this whole thing with this administration,

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Speaker 1: which is if you don't know about it, then it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, right. So remember the Trump basically purged the

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Speaker 1: Pentagon Press Corps and put in MAGA loyalists. They don't

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Speaker 1: want you to get news because the news they might

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Speaker 1: not like it. And so this is a really good

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Speaker 1: example of that. I'm going to say something here that

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Speaker 1: I think is scary. This for us who lived through

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven and who lived through all of those

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Speaker 1: like scary aftershocks, it's really scary to feel like our

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Speaker 1: government is just like the stuff might be going down.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to warn us. They don't want us

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Speaker 1: to know, Like, and you know that we know the

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Speaker 1: guy who's in charge of counter terrorism is a twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old guy who can lift one eyebrow over

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Speaker 1: the other. Like, it's really scary to know that there's

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Speaker 1: basically just no one in charge of our federal government

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Speaker 1: and that whoever is is is pretty hostiles. So that

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Speaker 1: does not feel good and it feels kind of scary.

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Speaker 2: It's giving Osama bin Ladin poise to strike America. And

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Speaker 2: you'll be shocked to hear when we see reports that

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Speaker 2: Condoliza Rice went to the White House the other night,

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Speaker 2: I'm just like, hmmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but Condalliz Rice went to the White House for

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Speaker 1: a sports team owners event.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but she was part of that poise to strike

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Speaker 2: it and like we're seeing that headlight. I'm just like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I'm living in a repeated hell that I already remember

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Speaker 2: from twenty five years ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what the worst part is, Like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: Condolieza Rice knew a lot more about what she was doing.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So like that's the scariest part of the whole thing

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Speaker 1: is there's a real chance that we're in a big, big,

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Speaker 1: big problem here. So I mean, I just let us

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Speaker 1: pray that nothing happened.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, one of the things with the Epstein classes,

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Speaker 2: they seem to always find a way to get away

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Speaker 2: with it. And what we see here is Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: to avoid depth position about those dismantling USA FEIM policy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so he will not have to sit for a

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Speaker 1: deposition about his tenure leading the Department of Government Efficiency

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Speaker 1: and his role in dismantling the US Agency for International Development,

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Speaker 1: a US appeals court ruled on Wednesday. That's because when

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Speaker 1: you're really rich, you don't have to follow the law.

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Speaker 1: The US Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit granted

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Speaker 1: ruled only two to one to grant Mask's petition to

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Speaker 1: avoid the deposition prior to dismantling. I mean, let's see

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Speaker 1: what happens here. You know, it's funny because it's like

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk is getting away with it and getting away

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Speaker 1: with it and getting away with it. But he's still

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Speaker 1: like wildly unpopular. You know, he's one of the least

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Speaker 1: popular people in American life. And you know, you can

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Speaker 1: only run so long before you know that comes back

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Speaker 1: to haunt you. I mean, I just wait to see

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Speaker 1: how this plays out, because I think ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a person who is the richest person in

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Speaker 1: the world and he's got that way with our tax

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Speaker 1: payer dollars. So let's see what happened.

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Speaker 2: Over a mother Jones. There's a horrifying report at largest

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Speaker 2: ice detention camp STAPF bet on detaining suicides.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is the thing. So they were okay.

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Speaker 1: So in East Montana camp has received several nine one

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Speaker 1: one calls in the span of five months about immigrants

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Speaker 1: trying to harm themselves. This is the nation's largest immigration

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Speaker 1: and Customs enforcement detention facility, and they've been placing bets

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Speaker 1: with each other on which detainees will be next to

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Speaker 1: die by suicide. These are reports from the Associated Press

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Speaker 1: based on nine one one calls and detaining accounts. We

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Speaker 1: keep hearing these horrible, horrible stories. This guy was a

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Speaker 1: legal permanent resident, spent several weeks at an East Camp

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Speaker 1: Montana detention facility in Texas and told the AP he

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Speaker 1: overheard a security guard talking about a betting pool for

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Speaker 1: which detainee would die by suicide. The guard said he

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Speaker 1: had paid five hundred dollars into the pot, which would

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Speaker 1: all go to the winner with the most accurate prediction

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Speaker 1: on detainees harming themselves. You know, I am shocked that

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Speaker 1: the organization that Christy Nome runs and Corey Lumandowski, okay,

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Speaker 1: but kind of cool. Yeah, by the way, did you

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Speaker 1: see that that Roger Stone is going after Corey Lumandowski.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I keep up with Roger Stone, and he's

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Speaker 2: definitely has a thing for that fellow that he does

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Speaker 2: not like him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean it just like that story of

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Speaker 1: him going out. You know, this is a group that

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Speaker 1: really does like to fight with each other. They're absolutely,

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Speaker 1: very very much in the middle of a big fight

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Speaker 1: with each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the MAGA civil war is very very real. And

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Speaker 2: with Marjorie Taylor Green coming out for Tucker Carlson for

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Speaker 2: president this week.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I didn't see that really, and.

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Speaker 2: Him basically saying that he's been calling President Trump to

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Speaker 2: tell him how stupid this Iran war is. We really

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Speaker 2: are seeing a big, big splintering inside the party.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in that case, she's probably right. We've seen

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Speaker 1: reporting the Tucker cralls and went to the White House twice.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a real splintering in MAGA. Now again,

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Speaker 1: the most recent polls show that MAGA supports whatever he does,

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Speaker 1: and they've come aboard with this war. So let's see

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Speaker 1: what happens. But watching Lindsey Graham trying to sell this

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Speaker 1: war on television does not make it seem like this

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Speaker 1: is a popular war, and it does make it seem

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Speaker 1: like Lindsay's really trying to push it. We have exciting

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Speaker 1: news over at our YouTube channel. The third episode is

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Speaker 1: out now from our series Project twenty twenty nine, are

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Speaker 1: reimagining where we examine what went wrong with democrats approach

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Speaker 1: to policy and how we can correct it and deliver

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Speaker 1: changes for the American people. The first episodes dove into

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Speaker 1: campaign finance, reform, anti trust, and regulation. Our newest episode

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Speaker 1: is on how we solidify reproductive rights for women. We

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Speaker 1: talk to the smartest names in the fields like Abortion

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Speaker 1: every Day is Jessica Valenti, the Center for Reproductive Rights,

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Speaker 1: Nancy northok UCLA is oh and Mary Ziegler, and the

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Speaker 1: gout Macher Institute's Kelly Badden. Republicans were prepared for when

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Speaker 1: they got the levers of power. Democrats need to be too,

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Speaker 1: So please head over to YouTube and search Molly John

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Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty nine or go to the Fast

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Speaker 1: Politics YouTube channel page and you'll find it there. Help

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Speaker 1: us spread the word. Rick Wilson is the founder of

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Speaker 1: the Lincoln Project and the host of the Enemy's List.

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Speaker 3: Rick Wilson, Hey, Hey, Molly.

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Speaker 1: Uh Tommy t Tom tillis from the great state of

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Speaker 1: North Carolina Estate.

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Speaker 3: As you know, I love dearly.

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Speaker 1: He's had that thing where when you're a Republican and

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Speaker 1: you decide you're not going to run again, you become

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Speaker 1: suddenly very brave.

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Speaker 3: You gained superpowers, in fact, incredible stuff, incredible superpowers that

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Speaker 3: allow you to have a shred of moral clarity after

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Speaker 3: years of having your your lips firmly attached to Trump's backside.

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Speaker 1: Just a shred, just just a touch.

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Speaker 3: But but Tilli's has become a born again hard mofo

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Speaker 3: and he has been ripping the living hell out of

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Speaker 3: tiny Tiny Santa Monica goobles Steven Loorer on on the

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Speaker 3: Sunday shows.

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Speaker 1: Correct, so this weekend we delight. So this weekend we

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Speaker 1: saw a lot of senators on the Sunday Shows, including

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Speaker 1: including Lindsey Graham being like, we just have to go

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Speaker 1: in and bomb and kill everyone.

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Speaker 3: Can I just say, Lindsey Graham seemed you're gonna beat me.

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Speaker 3: He seemed aroused today during that whole thing. He seemed

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Speaker 3: like he was about to lose his damn mind.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait, you see is to Cuba. But the other

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Speaker 1: thing is like there's only a finite amount of money

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Speaker 1: and munitions, and like, I we're costing this war in

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Speaker 1: the Middle East, which we are eight days in two

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Speaker 1: is costing more than a billion dollars a day. You

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Speaker 1: got to be a pain, much.

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Speaker 3: More, much more by some estimates, by the.

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Speaker 1: Way, Yeah, and we're running out of these blocking missiles

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Speaker 1: that we need to We're running.

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Speaker 3: We're running desperately short of the missile interceptor missiles, whether

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Speaker 3: it's Patriots or fads or and we're running. We're even

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Speaker 3: running short of like the c RAM systems are the

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Speaker 3: ones that those big guns that.

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Speaker 1: Go and and those stats that yes, you can tell

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Speaker 1: it's good when you make this sounds. But those stats

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Speaker 1: they need them in the Middle East, but they also

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Speaker 1: need them desperately in Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: Right, Let's put it this way. Ukraine has had to

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Speaker 3: grow beyond using our systems in a lot of ways

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Speaker 3: because Trump, you know, Russia stuff, but you know Ukraine

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Speaker 3: actually knows what they're doing in this department. There are

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Speaker 3: Ukrainian experts now headed to the Middle East to assist

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Speaker 3: the Gulf States in blocking these attacks that are coming

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Speaker 3: from Russia, I mean from ran And the reason they're

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Speaker 3: having to do it is the US doesn't have the

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Speaker 3: stuff to help. We haven't given the Ukrainians a patriot

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Speaker 3: for over a year because Donald Trump cut them off.

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Speaker 3: And so I think it's important we understand that jd

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Speaker 3: Vance needs to at least say thank you at this point.

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Speaker 1: When we have he only he won't he all says

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Speaker 1: thank you when we have eight dollars a gallon gas

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Speaker 1: and not a moment before.

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Speaker 3: Let me tell you if at the current pace, we're

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Speaker 3: going to get five dollars a gallon gas by summer,

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Speaker 3: if if this Shenanigan doesn't like get checked in the

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Speaker 3: near near near the very near future.

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Speaker 1: So gas prices are going way up, and that's because

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Speaker 1: of the straits of her.

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Speaker 3: Rosscause of Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: Come on right, yes, because but I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about like my optimist idea here for a minute, there

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Speaker 1: is a chance that that Americans decide that they could

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Speaker 1: get that this could actually help solar and wind. Well, no, thanks, now,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you.

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Speaker 3: I'll tell you. Why tell me? Because the incentives are

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Speaker 3: buying electric vehicles.

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Speaker 4: Right, pull back tax incentive which was a.

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Speaker 3: Major part of the electric vehicle boost. And I'm not

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Speaker 3: saying this is those were a bad thing. I'm just

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Speaker 3: saying those are now gone. This inministration has killed them.

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Speaker 3: Most of the American ev manufacturers have pulled back significantly

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Speaker 3: on their production, right. And so I have I fear

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Speaker 3: that's a very long lead problem to solve. That there's

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Speaker 3: an awful large percentage of the petrochemical industry that isn't

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Speaker 3: just used for immediate energy and vehicle needs. It's also

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Speaker 3: a lot of chemical precursors and all that other stuff,

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Speaker 3: and Americans are really stubborn about it may be the

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Speaker 3: right thing to do, but you know Americans will always

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Speaker 3: choose that in the last possible instance.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's true. So we had Tom Tayllis talking

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Speaker 1: about the war and how and awesome, more importantly, how

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Speaker 1: Stephen Miller mots go, which really I think is the

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Speaker 1: smart message from Republican Democrat like Christy nom is the

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Speaker 1: window dressing, and Mark Wayne Mullin is again the mark.

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Speaker 1: It's one word, Mark Buen is he is the window dressing.

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Speaker 1: Like the real story here is Stephen Miller who is

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Speaker 1: running the show. But I want to pivot to Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Hakim has said that he will not commit and we've

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Speaker 1: seen this in the Senate to not funding this war

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Speaker 1: that no one wants, literally no one wants. It has

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Speaker 1: almost no purpose.

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Speaker 3: And this is the point I've been making, Molly since

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Speaker 3: since this thing broke out, and the first wave of

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Speaker 3: a polling came in about four or five days into it,

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Speaker 3: and it has not gotten any more popular. Right now,

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Speaker 3: this war is less popular than the Vietnam War was

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Speaker 3: when the helicopters were leaving the roof of the embassy

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Speaker 3: in Saigon. I'm not kidding, I'm not being flippant. This

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Speaker 3: war is profoundly, deeply, truly madly unpopular, right and as

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Speaker 3: a country, we have a long history where wars don't

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Speaker 3: get more popular over time. Yeah, and I am. I

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Speaker 3: am absolutely blown away by the idea that that Democrats

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Speaker 3: are saying, oh, well, we we're going to vote for

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Speaker 3: a supplemental to replace all the weapons systems that we

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Speaker 3: fired so far. That would be but they're now talking

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Speaker 3: basically like, Okay, we're going to do what we did

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Speaker 3: during Iraq and Afghanistan. We're just going to do supplemental actor,

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Speaker 3: supplemental AC or supplemental or supplemental because we don't want

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Speaker 3: to vote against the troops. Jake Tapper today saying to

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Speaker 3: Chris Murphy on the day on Sunday, Jake Tapper seeing

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Speaker 3: to Chris Murphy, Well, if you vote against those, aren't

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Speaker 3: you against the troops? I'm like, I you want to

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Speaker 3: touch the hot stove again there, Jake, because because that's

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Speaker 3: the hot stove, I mean crazy.

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Speaker 1: Who wrote a whole book about.

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Speaker 3: About how bad week demented presidents were.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I don't see his Trump book, whereas

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Speaker 1: I haven't.

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Speaker 3: Seen that yet Trump. Well, we're we're waiting.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's a really good point we saw.

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Speaker 3: Members as don't worry, Molly clan is going to get

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Speaker 3: much better.

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Speaker 1: Now, see what tell us why you say that?

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Speaker 3: Oh, you know, the the ultimate NEPO baby gift to.

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Speaker 1: That's right, the smallest Ellison there is plenty to take

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Speaker 1: over CNN is a gift to the regime.

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Speaker 3: Yep. To be less flippant again for a second, The

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Speaker 3: idea that we're going to fund this war is predicated

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Speaker 3: on the on I think very old thinking about how

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Speaker 3: we looked at Iraq in Afghanistan and the beginning of

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Speaker 3: Iraq and Afghanistan. There is a horrible, terrible, grotesque attack

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Speaker 3: on us by a legitimately evil terrorist group Al Qaeda,

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Speaker 3: that took the lives of over three thousand Americans. The

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Speaker 3: beginning of this war is Donald Trump waking up one

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Speaker 3: day with a rare erection and saying, We're going to

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Speaker 3: bomb them. I'm going to bomb them, Pete bumm.

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Speaker 1: Well, and also according to our Gurubio, it's maybe.

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Speaker 3: That he well, if we didn't do it, BB was

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Speaker 3: going to get ahead of us and do it right.

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Speaker 3: Would be the circular logic there still makes my brain throb.

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Speaker 1: Right, And and remember Bill Clinton did one say to

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Speaker 1: the PM of Israel, we are the superpower. You are

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Speaker 1: not the superpower. So it makes me wonder if Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump could have stood up to him.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean that would be that would that

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Speaker 3: would that would shorten the interval between now and the

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Speaker 3: rapture and so.

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Speaker 1: Therefore we shouldn't laugh, ladies and gentlemen, we laugh.

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Speaker 3: Listen, I'm laughing all the way to the rapture. Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: rapture's not in the Bible, folks. Sorry to disappoint you.

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Speaker 3: The rapture not the way that Pastor Paula tells you.

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Speaker 3: It is, at least right.

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Speaker 1: The idea here is that Mike Hakabee wants the Jews

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Speaker 1: back in Israel for the rapture and not for a

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Speaker 1: great reform Judaism and all of its many for all attributes.

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Speaker 3: No fair, Mike, Yeah, fair Mike. Mike has a whole

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Speaker 3: different set of outcomes for the Jews in his little

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Speaker 3: pere brain.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it's not great.

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Speaker 3: No, you won't like it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk through this rapture scenario. No, let's not.

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Speaker 3: I get rapture.

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Speaker 1: There's another pretty disturbing thing happening this weekend, which was

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Speaker 1: Carolyn Levitt went on Fox News Fox Business. I think

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Speaker 1: with the money honey, and the money honey said, you know,

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Speaker 1: tell us you're not going to implement the draft, and

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Speaker 1: Carolyn Levitt said, Donald Trump can do whatever he wants,

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Speaker 1: basically like real North Korea style stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yes, she did, and uh, and so Baron, I can

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Speaker 3: direct you to the nearest the nearest All Services sign

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Speaker 3: up center. But you know, look, I think I think

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Speaker 3: the draft a low probability event at this moment. But

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Speaker 3: never put anything past these people. Never put anything past

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump. For Donald Trump to try to impose his

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Speaker 3: weirdo nineteen fifties war movie vision of what the world

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Speaker 3: should be. He's got a set of weird beliefs about

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Speaker 3: the world, and that's that maybe one of them that

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Speaker 3: the poorest should be drafted.

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Speaker 1: I think a draft is really unpopular. That said, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has done a lot really unpopular wildly, especially a

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Speaker 1: draft for something that was not even on the menu

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Speaker 1: two weeks ago. Right this, you know, this is a

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Speaker 1: more to distract from the Epstein files, to distract from

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Speaker 1: the poor economy, to distract from the inflation, to distract

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Speaker 1: from the tariffs. I mean, you know, we're down a

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole that seems like pretty abstruse at best.

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Speaker 3: I completely agree with that, Molly, and I think one

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Speaker 3: thing we should really consider about this rabbit hole is

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Speaker 3: that Trump has very few motivations to set this. This

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Speaker 3: is okay with him right now, this moment wherein is

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Speaker 3: okay with Donald Trump. I mean that not only politically

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Speaker 3: okay with him, which it certainly is, but you know

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Speaker 3: he has said morally Trump is okay with this, He's

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Speaker 3: he's shrugging off. I mean we saw him, you know,

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Speaker 3: several times now he said some variation of oh, well,

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Speaker 3: it's just war. That's what happens in the war. Good

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Speaker 3: to know for those families.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I also think like it's also

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Speaker 1: just not a war than any Americans have been sold

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Speaker 1: in on. Now. The one thing that I think is

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Speaker 1: interesting is this polling. Right, the maga maga world has basically,

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Speaker 1: as Donald Trump said, Maga is I and I am maga.

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Speaker 1: And that does seem to be true. But you can't

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Speaker 1: win without indies.

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Speaker 3: So all of last year, starting after the tariffs started

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Speaker 3: to really hit the economy, there was a sort of

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Speaker 3: rule of thumb and polling, and my son Andrew the Polster,

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Speaker 3: has said over and over again, Independence generically were two

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Speaker 3: to one all last year against Trump. And it didn't

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Speaker 3: depend no matter what the policy was, whether it was

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Speaker 3: the border or the tariffs or or you know, the

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Speaker 3: White House tearing down the East three, Independence were two

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Speaker 3: to one against it got a little worse at the

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Speaker 3: end of last year and now Independence are between two

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Speaker 3: and a half to one and three to one against

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Speaker 3: Trump across the board, and that has now spread down

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Speaker 3: the ticket to all Republicans. That radiation is poisoning him

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Speaker 3: and them at the at an equal pace. It has

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Speaker 3: Republican campaign operative types deeply freaking out right now, and

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Speaker 3: I mean a lot.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at the Texas primaries, what you're seeing,

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Speaker 1: and again that may not hold true in the midterms,

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Speaker 1: but it's certainly something to see. In the primers is

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Speaker 1: a lot of Hispanic voters.

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Speaker 3: Molly that that number. And our my old buddy Mike

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Speaker 3: Madrid has been really the he's the national expert on

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Speaker 3: this and he has been following this super closely. And

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Speaker 3: Hispanic voters in Texas and beyond are driven by economics

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Speaker 3: and affordability, and weirdly, in the second not weirdly, but

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Speaker 3: in the second tier it's immigration. A lot of folks

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Speaker 3: think it's immigration first and then the economy. But that's

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Speaker 3: a double poison. Those voters are being forced to consume

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Speaker 3: by Trump and they are really not happy. They are

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Speaker 3: really really unhappy about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you elect him. He says he's going to make

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Speaker 1: things cheaper, and he says he's going to stop foreign wars,

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Speaker 1: and he immediately.

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Speaker 3: Makes care of something puts US into foreign wars, sacking.

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Speaker 1: Out swimmingly seven foreign wars. What do you think the

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Speaker 1: chances are that we have boots on the ground already?

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Speaker 3: We have boots on the ground, but I mean more,

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, there's no universe in which we do

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Speaker 3: not have advisors from Jaysock and the and the intelligence

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Speaker 3: services on the ground, at least in Kurdistan because they're

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Speaker 3: planning an incursion over the border. I think we already

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Speaker 3: probably have some special operations Jaysock types, you know, Tier

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Speaker 3: one types in Iran on a new cunt, which famously

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Speaker 3: works out well for US. I can you know, But

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Speaker 3: I think I think that those those folks are already

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Speaker 3: in in country, already in play. And I think that

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Speaker 3: the the possibility that one or more of these or

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Speaker 3: individuals or groups that get gets you know, eventually picked

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Speaker 3: up and spotted by the Iranians is one hundred. It's

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Speaker 3: not gonna be great. And I think, you know, I've

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Speaker 3: got I've got this theory in my head and I

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Speaker 3: don't know if maybe I'm just just angry about the

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Speaker 3: whole war. But I have a theory in my head

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Speaker 3: that Trump wants to be more transgressive and more path

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Speaker 3: breaking and more more evil with every passing day, and

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Speaker 3: I think part of him is now like, yeah, they

438
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 3: say I can't put boots on the ground, so I'm

439
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 3: gonna put boots on the ground. But I think that

440
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 3: maybe I don't have a really densely reasoned, working theory

441
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 3: on that yet, but it's it's also logically consistent with

442
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: what he is these days. When you tell him don't

443
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 3: do X, the toddler runs out and does acts. Don't

444
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: touch that stove, He runs to touch the stove.

445
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: It is kind of incredible just how unhinged Trump seems

446
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: this second time around, Like in a way that is shocking, truly, Molly.

447
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 3: I think that is a very important point, Like it's

448
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 3: harder to hide the crazy right now. Yeah, by the

449
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 3: White House and by everybody else around him, they can't

450
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: hide how bonkers he is these days.

451
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 5: And I almost feel like it's not even crazy, it's

452
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 5: just pure id, Like whatever the worst thing he could

453
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 5: do in a situation, like in his first term, he

454
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 5: would sort of.

455
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: Back down, like he might go almost.

456
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 3: Not anymore, not these days. No, yeah, correct, But I

457
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 3: think the point is right.

458
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

459
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 1: I think it's a function of having an eight year

460
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: old president who's an autocratic lunatic.

461
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 3: And I think it's a function of having people around

462
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 3: him who look at you know. The scorekeeper keeping mechanism

463
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: used to be stay out of trouble, yeah, and don't

464
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: don't mess up on the Sunday shows, don't make a

465
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 3: don't't don't be stupid on TV or whatever. I think

466
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: the score keeping mechanism now has become keep up with

467
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 3: the Millers, you know, be the craziest you can be.

468
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 3: Don't let anyone, don't let anyone you know, uh uh,

469
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 3: don't let anyone get to get to your right on insanity.

470
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: When it comes to how much you can you know,

471
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 3: suck up to Trump, how much you can empower you know,

472
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 3: the worst ideas he's got, how much you can you know,

473
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: how much you can go out in public and be

474
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 3: a defender of things that that are evil. Yeah, I

475
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 3: mean he's he's built a he's built a work culture

476
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 3: for sure, and that culture is like, how can we

477
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 3: be evil? Yes, ma'am.

478
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: Doug boch Clark is an investigative journalist at Pro Publica

479
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: and the author of The Last Whalers. Welcome to Fast Politics.

480
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 4: Doug, thanks so much for having me on.

481
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: Oh great to have you. So let's talk this through.

482
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: This is a humongous story you guys wrote for Pro

483
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 1: Publica about building the big lie inside the creation of

484
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's stolen election myth. So this is a story

485
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: that starts with the emails and interviews with the key participants.

486
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: So I want you to talk us through sort of

487
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: how your story starts here.

488
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, give or take four years ago, you know,

489
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 4: right after the five years ago now, right after the

490
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 4: attempt to overturn the election, we at Pro public really

491
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 4: wanted to know what were the driving forces. One of

492
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 4: the things that I did was go down and start

493
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 4: trying to track down a lot of the people who'd

494
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 4: been involved in this, and I found out pretty quickly

495
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 4: that a lot of the lawyers, a lot of former

496
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: Army Special Forces people who had helped with this effort,

497
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 4: had gathered on a plantation in remote South Carolina where

498
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 4: they had done a lot of the work to try

499
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 4: and manufacture this idea that the election was stolen.

500
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: Right, So go down to this plantation and tell us

501
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: the players.

502
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 4: So a lot of the key players were Michael Flynn,

503
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 4: who was Trump's former national security advisor, former general, a

504
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 4: woman named Sidney Powell who is a lawyer, who had

505
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: this idea that Venezuela had hacked a lot of voting machines,

506
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 4: and there was this whole cast of people around them

507
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: who they assembled to try and basically get a hold

508
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 4: of voting machines that improved this very very wild theory.

509
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: Is the MyPillow guy involved in this.

510
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: You know, Mike Lindo, the MyPillow guy, would become very

511
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 4: interested in it and you know, an adherent of this

512
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 4: idea at a later point. But this was really in

513
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: the week after the election. Trump was casting about being like,

514
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 4: you know, how did I lose? And these people were

515
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 4: willing to say, you know, this is really a secret

516
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 4: plot done with you know, cyber intrigue and hacked voting machines,

517
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: and he didn't really have any more legitimate thing to

518
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 4: go with, and so he listened to them and they

519
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 4: became a very important part of his effort to overturn

520
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: the election. And we're still seeing the reverberations of that today.

521
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 4: Every time you hear people sort of questioning the voting

522
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: machines and all that. It really goes back to this

523
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: small group in the sort of remote ultra luxury plantation

524
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: who were very convinced of this idea and you know,

525
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: managed to get down on Coump's ear.

526
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: Now Salazar is involved in those two the testimony where

527
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: they're interviewing can you explain that story?

528
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 4: So one of the reasons that this group was so

529
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: focused on this idea was that a number of Venezuelans

530
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 4: have claimed to have been involved in hacking American elections.

531
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 4: These claims have been disputed and proven to be untrue.

532
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: But they had a video which someone brought them, which

533
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 4: they then subsequently did not really vet.

534
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 6: Someone was claiming this at top Benezuelan official, correct, you know,

535
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 6: And they brought claims from that to people associated with

536
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 6: the Trump administration, and that was sort of how they

537
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 6: got up and running.

538
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: So they meet together in this plantation, they cook up

539
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: this idea. Do they know it's not true?

540
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: You know. So one of the key things that really

541
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 4: I discovered in this you know, very in depth project

542
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 4: we did back then was that they put together this

543
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 4: thing called the Antrim Report, and Antrium was a small

544
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: county in Michigan. Your listeners may remember it. It was

545
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 4: a place where several thousand votes seemed to have shifted

546
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 4: from Donald Trump to Joe Biden. And subsequently, you know,

547
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 4: the FBI, the DOJ, other people would investigate this. They

548
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 4: would say, oh, you know, it was actually basically a

549
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: computer error. But this group thought, you know, here it

550
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 4: is the evidence of the voting being stolen. So they

551
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 4: got a whole bunch of operatives, former CIA agents, law

552
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: enforcement operatives, and they went up there and they got

553
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 4: ahold of these things. They basically, you know, convinced the

554
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 4: elections workers to you know, give them access, and from

555
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 4: examining those voting machines and the records around them, they

556
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 4: made a series of claims that suggested that Venezuela had

557
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 4: hacked the election. This thing was called the Antrum Report.

558
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: It was given to Trump. Trump waved it around when,

559
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 4: you know, telling William Barr, the Attorney General, you know,

560
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: we believe the election is stolen. This was really a

561
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 4: key pius of information. However, I went and I tracked

562
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 4: down the sort of the technical analysis, the computer guys

563
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 4: who had put this thing together, and what they told

564
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 4: me was that they wrote a very different version of

565
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 4: the Antrum report and gave it to sort of the

566
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: political operatives who were overseeing this operation to get the

567
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: voting machines. And what you know, a guy named Conin

568
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 4: Hayes told me was like, I didn't find proof of

569
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 4: election fraud there, Like that's like not what I said,

570
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 4: and I'm paraphrasing here, but you know, that's not what

571
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 4: I said in this report. But this is the version

572
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 4: of the report that the White House is pushing it saying,

573
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 4: so you know, originally even their own people did not

574
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: find evidence for fraud in those key sort of moments.

575
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 4: We also published we got ahold of recordings of the

576
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 4: FBI law enforcement agent's former FBI agents that they'd sent

577
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 4: out to find evidence of fraud. These people had run

578
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 4: down various claims, and we have recordings of them telling

579
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 4: one of these people who claim it, like you're wrong,

580
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 4: Like this wasn't fraud, Like we looked into this, we

581
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: knew it. And so one of the big takeaways we

582
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: had from this investigation was like a lot of these

583
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 4: gems of fraud people had told then, you know, the

584
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 4: people associated with the Trumpe initiation, these things were just

585
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: not true, and yet they were still pushing these as

586
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 4: you know, reasons to try and overturn the election.

587
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: It's actually pretty interesting. It's something you sort of see

588
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: in Trump world is the thesis doesn't necessarily match the

589
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: underlying evidence.

590
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 4: I think that that would be fair to say.

591
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: Here, I want to talk about Lynn Wood. Can you

592
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: explain who Lynn Wood is and how he fits into this.

593
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 4: So Lynn Wood was a very pro trund celebrity right

594
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: wing lawyer. He was the owner of the Plantation. And

595
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: when I say plantation, I mean many multimillion dollar property

596
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 4: that you know, multiple mansions, houses on it, with X

597
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 4: seal security forces surrounding it, private airstrips. Like think of

598
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 4: the place as like if you were going to go something.

599
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein would all, yeah, it's like.

600
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 4: If you were going to go and bring together a

601
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 4: bunch of people to you know, try and plot the

602
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 4: how to dispute an election, a pretty good place to

603
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 4: do it. You know. He was very very vocal on

604
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 4: social media, you know, about overturning the election. A lot

605
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 4: of people interpreted what he said as call for violence.

606
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 4: You know that he would dispute that, but a lot

607
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 4: of people found his rhetoric extremely harsh, and he was

608
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 4: a key player in all of this. And you know,

609
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 4: both him and Powell filed various lawsuits which courts rejected

610
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: trying to overturn the election. These were really people who

611
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: played a big role in trying to keep Donald Trump

612
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: in office. And the shocking thing is that they're still

613
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 4: reappearing as we keep reporting. You know, they're still involved

614
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 4: in trying to help Trump and you know, keep pushing

615
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 4: some pretty extreme ideas to do.

616
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: So let's talk through kind of what happens next they

617
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: put together this idea and then what happens.

618
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: So they put together things like the Antrump Report, some

619
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 4: of these other claims. You know, they give them to

620
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 4: the White House, and it's hard to overstate how impactful

621
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 4: those claims are. You know, they go straight to President Trump.

622
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: I was telling you before about the scene in which

623
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 4: William Barr, the Republican Attorney general, not just for Trump,

624
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 4: but he had been a Republican Attorney general for you know,

625
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 4: the Bush presidency. You know, a man deeply steep in

626
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 4: conservative politics. He's called into the White House. You know,

627
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 4: he asked, do you believe this thing? You know, go

628
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 4: find out and essentially told, you know, go find evidence

629
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 4: of this, and it's like, this just isn't true, you know,

630
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 4: he writes in his memoir, you know, and I can't

631
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 4: remember off the top of my head the exact quote,

632
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,879
Speaker 4: but he's basically like, you know, I felt sad if

633
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 4: the President believed this stuff. You know, it just felt

634
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 4: like him being detached from reality. And you know, the

635
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 4: whole time the President is waiting this ANSWERM report saying

636
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: around and so it's it's very key to understand how

637
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 4: in fluential some of these sort of fringe ideas can

638
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 4: be on people who really hold the levers of power.

639
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: So next what happens. They bring in the reports, they

640
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: try to make a case, and then keep going.

641
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 4: So they bring in the reports, they try and make

642
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 4: a case. They even go literally show up at the

643
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 4: White House, you know, sneak in and this is Michael Flynn,

644
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 4: Sidney Powell. Another man who was part of this name

645
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: Patrick Byrne, and they get themselves into the Oval office.

646
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Patrick Byrn is the CEO of Overstock. Explain Patrick Byurn

647
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: in this situation.

648
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: So, yes, Patrick Byurn was a successful venture capitalist. He

649
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: really used a lot of his money to make the

650
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 4: gears of this effort turn you know, he was the

651
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 4: funder in a lot of ways and continues to fund

652
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 4: a lot of these operations. And all four of these

653
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 4: people show up December eighteenth to what people have described

654
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 4: as the craziest meeting of the first Trump presidency, in

655
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 4: which you had these three individuals Flynn, Powell, and Burn

656
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: telling Trump in the Oval office, you should seize the

657
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 4: voting machines. You should you know, there's going to be

658
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 4: proof in there. You should send in law enforcement, national guard,

659
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 4: you know, whoever get these things. Federalized elections essentially declare

660
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 4: martial law. Was the description that a number of people

661
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 4: in the room had right. And you know, you had

662
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 4: a number of Trump's lawyers being like this is crazy,

663
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 4: and so a many hour shouting match ensued in which

664
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 4: you had some again died in read Republicans basing like

665
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 4: this is the line too far, Like we just cannot

666
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: go there, this is this is not democracy if we're

667
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 4: doing it. These are not real ideas that these people

668
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 4: are sort of putting forth. And you know, really a

669
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 4: lot of the people and there's been a lot of

670
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: reporting about that moment. Jonathan swan and others have done

671
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 4: really great reporting on that scene, in which people felt

672
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 4: like like, really the balance of how the election was

673
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 4: going to play out was hanging there. In the end,

674
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 4: Trump backed down. It's disputed whether or not he agreed

675
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 4: at that moment to do this thing. In the end,

676
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 4: he backed down. You know, we get January sixth, he's

677
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 4: out of office. But these ideas keep going, These people

678
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 4: keep going, and then over the years have actually continued

679
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 4: to rise. And with the second administration, they're back and

680
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 4: they're really pushing a lot more of these ideas again.

681
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 1: So this is how we get to the place where

682
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: we had them seizing ballots in Georgia. So talk us

683
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: through that, because that is related to this, right, So.

684
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 4: I say, yes, this is part of that. The whole

685
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: sort of seizing of the ballots is a complicated, multi

686
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 4: layered process.

687
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: Yes, let's hear it.

688
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 4: For the last four years or so, you know, I've

689
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 4: really been reporting on elections in the US. I've been

690
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 4: reporting on, you know, a lot of the conservative people

691
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 4: who are trying to influence them, and so I have

692
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: seen these people grow in power. You know, they were

693
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 4: fairly disorganized at the time of the twenty twenty election,

694
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 4: but that's no longer true. You know, they've had four

695
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: years to sort of get it together, sort of refine

696
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 4: what they're doing, and to become really impactful. And when

697
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 4: the second Trump administration has happened, Trump did not forget

698
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 4: who stood beside him, you know, and who was willing

699
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 4: to go all the way to try and keep him

700
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 4: in power. And so some of these people now have

701
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 4: had a significant amount of you know, ability to get

702
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 4: the White House's attention again the same way they did

703
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 4: the first time. And so in late January, when the

704
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 4: FBI showed up at the Georgia, the Fulton County election warehouse,

705
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 4: everyone was shocked, right we had any experts describing this

706
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 4: as unprecedented, and there actually was not a lot of information.

707
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 4: So one of the first things I did was I

708
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 4: got a hold I was one of the first people

709
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,959
Speaker 4: I got a hold of the warrant. The affidavit which

710
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 4: contains the evidence sort of explaining why the warrant has

711
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 4: been issued, was sealed. But I went through the warrant

712
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: very carefully, had a hunch about who might be behind

713
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 4: it given some of the sort of sparse details in there,

714
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 4: and you know, identified some of the activists that had

715
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 4: been working with this crab for a long time. You know,

716
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 4: we was able to get to go on the record

717
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 4: before the affidavit was eventually unsealed, partially through Pro public

718
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 4: A suing to have that happened, and you know, it

719
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 4: really showed the influences again that these election you know

720
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 4: a lot of people call them election deniers, they call themselves.

721
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 4: You know, conservative activists have been able to have to

722
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 4: really get the federal government to do what they want.

723
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: How does Tulsi Gabbard fit into this story?

724
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 4: So, Tulsie Gabbert is the director of the Office of

725
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 4: the Director for National Intelligence, oh D and I, and

726
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 4: she showed up at the Georgia raid. So as they

727
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 4: were you know, literally moving give or take seven hundred

728
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: boxes of ballots and other election late related materials.

729
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 1: And two elections ago, not one, but two.

730
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 4: Which many experts point out seems to be outside the

731
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 4: statute of limitations. But as those were being moved into

732
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 4: you know, semi trailer like trucks, you know, she was

733
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 4: there photographed sort of standing in the background taking calls,

734
00:39:59,320 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 4: you know.

735
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: Direct things, calling Trump.

736
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 4: Yes, I believe that The New York Times reported afterwards

737
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 4: that Trump called her and you know, essentially she put

738
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 4: him on speakerphone to congratulate the THEI agents and thank

739
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 4: them for their work. It was viewed as highly unusual

740
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 4: to have an intelligence official who did not play a

741
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 4: law enforcement capacity to be there. And it's largely believed

742
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 4: among experts and bits and pieces that this has been

743
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 4: reported that you know, she is reinvestigating a lot of

744
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 4: these claims about voting machines. That an expert who was

745
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 4: involved in getting that affidavit for the warrant, a man

746
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 4: named Clay Peric works for OD and I Pro Public

747
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 4: are reported and provided some of the evidence that justified

748
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 4: that raid.

749
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: Oh wow, interesting. What can we learn from this story?

750
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 4: I think one of the most important things to learn

751
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 4: from and to realize is that these ideas, many of

752
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 4: which have pretty dubious groundings in reality. You know, a

753
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 4: lot of the claims in the affidavit, once unsealed, were

754
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 4: shown to be things that the Georgia State Election Board

755
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 4: had looked into, the Georgia State Secretary of State had

756
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 4: looked into and not found any evidence of the sort

757
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 4: of like a widespread evil conspiracy, you know, they found

758
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 4: human error and yet sort of by recycling a lot

759
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: of these claims, and by having different people in power,

760
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: they have been able to achieve, you know, actions that

761
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: have real.

762
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: Impact, right like muddying the water.

763
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,479
Speaker 4: Muddying the water or who knows exactly what will happen next.

764
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 4: But again, it's nothing like the faulton rate has really

765
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 4: ever happened before, and a lot of Democratic secretaries of

766
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 4: stayed and other even Republican officials are worried about, you know,

767
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: if they're willing to do this eight or nine months

768
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 4: before the actual election, what happens should they have an

769
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 4: incentive or unfavorable results and want to do something even

770
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,359
Speaker 4: more come the fall.

771
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: Yes, very scary. Thank you, Doug Clark, thanks.

772
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 4: So much for having me.

773
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 3: No Moon Rick Wells, Hey, Mollie.

774
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: So the guy from Texas who dropped out of his primary,

775
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: he's actually a sitting member of Congress, the one whom

776
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson is kept in Congress because my god, yeah,

777
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: so Christian. That guy the one with the six kids,

778
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: who had the affair with the staffer who set herself

779
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: on fire. That guy dropped out.

780
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: You know, by the way, I have noticed over time,

781
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot of degeneracy in my life in politics.

782
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: But I have noticed over time that if the girlfriend

783
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: who works for you, who you forced into having an affair,

784
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 3: literally sets herself on fire and dies, you should probably

785
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 3: consider another line of work.

786
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: Nah. But anyway, he's dropped out. He had gone on

787
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: a podcast and said that God forgave him, but it

788
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: turns out God has changed his mind, but leaving the

789
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: next member of Congress from this part of Texas to be.

790
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 3: Brandon Herrera, gun tuber, the AK guy.

791
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: And this is from you who loves guns.

792
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: I would not say I am an AK guy like he.

793
00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 3: I mean I have an.

794
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: AK right as one does.

795
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that one does.

796
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 3: But Brandon is a guy who has some cultural cachet

797
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: on the far right. Again, he's a gun tuber. He

798
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 3: also rather famously has two things. One, he re enacted

799
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 3: the assassination of Martin Luther King. Judgment in that regard

800
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 3: seems to be slightly lacking.

801
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, one might say.

802
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,720
Speaker 3: He also one time was quoted as saying, well, I'm

803
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 3: not a veteran, but I might as well be one,

804
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 3: because I want to put a gun in my mouth

805
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: every day. Call me crazy, but a lot of my

806
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: veteran friends who suffer with PTSD and twenty three men

807
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: a day commit suicide. The callousness of that, to my mind,

808
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 3: is pretty far up there on that scale. I find

809
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 3: that pretty grotesque. I will say this about that district.

810
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 3: It is an R plus five district, and it is

811
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 3: in the Rio Grande Valley, which has turned somewhat back

812
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 3: to the left in this moment. I don't know whether

813
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 3: it will stay there all throughout this election, but I

814
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 3: would not if I were a Republican take that district

815
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 3: for granted anymore, especially if it's a Republican re enacted

816
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 3: killing Martin Luther King. And by the way, folks, I

817
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 3: just want to assure you, this guy is a YouTube

818
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: sort of like fame horror plankster as well as being

819
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 3: a gun guy, so that's sort of trolling to my mind.

820
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 3: It tells you a lot about this guy, and I

821
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 3: don't think it tells you anything good. But I will

822
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 3: say for the folks who are in the gun community

823
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 3: thinking he's going to be their their avatar in Congress,

824
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 3: I think you might want to look first. Is he

825
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 3: a YouTube fame horror clickbait guy or is he really

826
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 3: somebody who believes in what you believe in. I don't

827
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: have a lot of time for this guy to be honest.

828
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: Well, stay tuned, and I have your favorite gun guy,

829
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: very true Ruck Wilson. I hope you'll come back.

830
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 4: You know I will.

831
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

832
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

833
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

834
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

835
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.