1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from housetop 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: Holly cry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And today we 4 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: are picking up where we left off with the Hope Diamond. 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: So to recamp, Hope diamond is a giant blue diamond 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: the sizeable walnut. Yes, so giant and walnut may not 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: go together in your head, but in terms of diamonds, 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: it's quite sizeable. Uh. It has passed through the hands 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: of many people through the years. At first came into 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: uh the Western record anyway, in the sixteen hundreds. It 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: was owned by the Sun King, King Lely the fourteenth 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: of France, as well as Team Lee the fifteenth and sixteenth, 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: and then it vanished for a bit, showed up in London. UH, 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: was passed through King George the fourth of England and 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: then in to the Hope family, who then sold it off. 16 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: It changed chance a few more times and ended up 17 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: with Evelyn Walsh McClain, who was an American heiress and 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of a an eccentric in the way 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: that most heiresses seemed to be in history. And then uh, 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: where we get to is the end of her life. 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: We ended UH part one with her passing away, and 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: when she passed away, which was in her estate in 23 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: a tale that's all too familiar, particularly in relation to 24 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: the Hope Diamond, needed to be liquidated to cover her debts. UH. 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: And in nineteen forty nine, Harry Winston, Incorporated of New 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: York City, the famous Harry Winston Jewelers, bought the entirety 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: of Mrs McLean's jewelry collection. From the time he purchased 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: the collection until late nineteen fifty eight, Harry Winston toured 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: the Hope Diamond around the globe, often for charity, and 30 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: then on November tenth of ninety eight, Harry Winston donated 31 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: the Hope Diamond to the Smithsonian, where it has been 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: ever since. That is where I saw it when I was, 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: or most people would. When I think if my parents 34 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: had maybe not my parents, I think my grandparents were 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: the bigger hypers of the Hope Diamond, and I think 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: if they had talked about its history rather than its size, 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: I might have been less underwhelmed. When I actually saw it. Yeah, 38 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: I was kind of like, it's a blue rock, but 39 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: it's a famous and important blue rock spanning centuries of history, 40 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: The famous gem has actually left the Smithsonian on several occasions. 41 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty two, it was on display at the 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: Louver for one month as part of its ten Centuries 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: of French Jewelry exhibit, and in nineteen sixty five it 44 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: was shown in Johannesburg, South Africa in the rand Easter Show. 45 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, Harry Winston Inc. Borrowed the diamond 46 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: for their fiftieth anniversary celebration and in it actually went 47 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: back to Harry Winston Inc. Again, this time for restoration 48 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 1: and for cleaning. In the diamond moved into a new 49 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: exhibit at the Natural History Museum of the Smithsonian Institution, 50 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: the new Harry Winston Room in the Hall of Geology. 51 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: And in uh the Hope Diamond was actually placed into 52 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: a new temporary setting courtesy of Harry Winston Inc. It 53 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: was part of an anniversary celebration for the diamond, and 54 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: it was called the Embracing Hope Setting and it was 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: actually chosen by popular vote. They had I think they 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: narrowed it down to three designs and then let the 57 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: general population vote on it, and that was the one 58 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: that they selected. So that was the temporary setting for it. 59 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: The diamond is one of the most visited museum exhibits 60 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: in the world, and it's displayed behind bullet and bomb 61 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: proof glass. Its value is roughly three and fifty million dollars. Yeah, 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: that's a a lot of greenbacks. But one of the 63 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: main things we're going to talk about on this part 64 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: two episode is the curse of the Hope Diamond. As 65 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: with many famous jewels in history, this one has a 66 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: curse attributed to it. Uh. But as we'll see, a 67 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: lot of the things that people say are the cause 68 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: of the diamond are really either not the cause of 69 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: the diamond or didn't even happen. Uh. So we'll start 70 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 1: with this um and as we mentioned, the curse schumers 71 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: really went into overdrive in the early twentieth century. Here 72 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: are a few of the common, untrue tales of the curse. 73 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: There's one story that says that the explorer who discovered 74 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: the diamonds stole it from a Hindu temple. In this 75 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: version of the story, this discoverer was later ripped apart 76 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: by dogs and the diamond was cursed as a result. 77 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: And some versions of this story that discover is John 78 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: Baptiste Taverner, but in others it's some other explorer who 79 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: later gave it to Tavernier. We know that Tavernier made 80 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 1: it back to France safe and sound, not dismembered by dogs, 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: and continued to sell gems. He did write in his 82 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: travel journal of a local jeweler in India's extracting a 83 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: diamond from an idol's eye and being punished for it, 84 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: which reminds us of Indiana, Joe. Yeah, so it's possible 85 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: that that description that he made in his travel journal 86 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: somehow got through, you know, word of mouth. Discussion of 87 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: it turned into the story of how he got the diamond, 88 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: but that's never been substantiated at all. Uh, Louis the 89 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: fourteenth death of gang Green is attributed to the diamond. 90 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: That's kind of good. Some people attribute the bad fortune 91 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: of Louis the sixteenth and Marie Antoinette's rein to their 92 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: possession of the French Blue. Yeah, there's even a story 93 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: of Marie Antoinette wore this diamond and look what happened 94 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: to her. But in fact it still would have been 95 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: in that um order of the Golden Fleece setting, which 96 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: was really for men and for the keen to wear 97 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: for ceremonial things, so it's actually unlikely that she ever 98 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: wore it. Um. So again, uh, there are many things 99 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: that they possessed that she could say were there bad luck, 100 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: But they possessed silverware, place, all the things. Uh. Henry 101 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: Philip Hope and his family certainly had an assortment of 102 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: troubles while the diamond was in their possession, but again, uh, 103 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: some of those things seem like they probably would have 104 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: happened anyway, and presumably they had troubles at other times too. Yeah, 105 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of one of those things where 106 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: they it was in the family for a long time. 107 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: There was a lot of debt and poor money management, 108 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 1: But that to me suggests that they just weren't great 109 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: with keeping their hands on their money or managing it 110 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: very well, less so than anything else. Well, and every 111 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: time I hear these stories, I kind of just want 112 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: to rattle off terrible things that have happened to people 113 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: who are not actually of a walnut sized blue diamonds. Yeah, 114 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: and I mean there literally listen listen lists that you 115 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: can find of things that people say must be because 116 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: of the Hope diamonds and the curse that it carries. Uh. 117 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: But what's really interesting is that when you really dive 118 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: in and you look for where all of these rumors 119 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: really came from, there are actually two main sources, one 120 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: of which may surprise you. One is may Yo Way, 121 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: the wife of Francis Thomas Hope, one of the many 122 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: people who have sold the diamonds to cover debts. She 123 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: wrote many accounts of the diamonds curse, including her own 124 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: misfortunes and unhappiness after having worn it. She even made 125 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: a Hollywood movie about the curse. Yeah, and there's actually 126 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: some debate about whether she did actually ever wear it. 127 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: The other person and this one's quite fun if you 128 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: remember how uh Evelyn McLean came into possession of the diamonds. 129 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: She purchased it from Pierre Cartier. And as we know, 130 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: Cardier very famous name in high end luxury goods. Uh. 131 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: And it appears that Pierre Cardier was actually one of 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: the people who really stirred this rumor pot uh. It 133 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: said that he was a master salesman and that he 134 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: actually knew that the legends and mystery attached to the 135 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: diamond would really pique Evelyn Walsh McLean's interest. As a buyer. 136 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: And as we mentioned in the first episode on this 137 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: she talked about in her autobiography, you know, kind of 138 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: this sense of like mystery and and the diamond staring 139 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: back at her and her joining her fate to it 140 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: when she put it around her neck, for good or bad. 141 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: And so clearly those stories worked on her right well. 142 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: And both of these people who seemed to be the 143 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: two main sources of all these rumors had a vested 144 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: interest in telling a good story. Yeah, there was profit 145 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: to be made from it. Uh. And of course that 146 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: doesn't account for the ill fortunes that befell McLean while 147 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: she owned the diamond. But as we said in the 148 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: first part of this story, she didn't give that much credence. 149 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: She basically said, you know, bad things happen to people. 150 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: They probably would happen to me whether I had this 151 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: diamond or not. It's not the diamond. Even the mailman 152 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: who delivered the diamond to the Smithsonian, because yes, it 153 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: was sent in the mail James Todd crushed his leg 154 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: in a truck accident, had head injuries from a car accident, 155 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: and then had his house burned to the ground. Yes, 156 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: so people that had already bought into the curse thing. 157 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, they're just adding that to the list of 158 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: the catalog of obvious curse support for it. Uh. And 159 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: some people have even attributed the troubles of the United 160 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: States to the Hope Diamond and its presence in the Smithsonian. 161 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: The museum actually continues to receive letters about the curse 162 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: that blame the Hope Diamond for basically any problem we've 163 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: ever had, I mean, terrorist attacks, Hope Diamond, economy issues, 164 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: Hope diamond. They're literally getting constant complaints saying they need 165 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: to get rid of this this item in their collection 166 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: because it's bringing bad fortune to the country. Well, and 167 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: then it does seemed to be a trend of people 168 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: with a diamond having debt issues. They do, although part 169 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: of me thinks there's like a cause and effect element there. 170 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: I think more the person that's going to spend a 171 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: whole lot of money on a piece of jewelry is right, 172 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: maybe not the most prudent spender to begin with. If 173 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: you are the sort of person who will buy a giant, 174 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: rare blue diamond, maybe you have other things going on. Yeah, 175 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: and there is one account I just want to mention 176 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: as a side note that uh, when McLean bought the 177 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: piece from Cardier, there was a deal that if nothing 178 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: bad happened to her in the first six months, she 179 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: would keep it, but if something bad did happen and 180 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 1: it was in fact cursed, she would get her money back. Uh. 181 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: But in any case, she kept it for more than 182 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: three decades. So yeah, and more at almost daily, I mean, 183 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: just st around the house. Well, and so part of 184 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: me is like, man, that is so silly. And then 185 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: part of me also knows that, Like, if I was 186 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: trying to buy a house and someone told me that 187 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: the house was haunted, I might not want it anymore, 188 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: even though I know that's completely irrational. I know it's irrational, 189 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: and I would still want it more, I thay. So 190 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: if somebody ever offers me a haunted house, I will 191 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: sell it to you. Maybe, but I already have a 192 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: house I really couldn't afford to I don't thay. Uh. 193 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: But in the more modern era, there have been some 194 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: really interesting things going on with the Hope Diamond that 195 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with curses and only to do 196 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: with science. No, we're not. We're not debunking curses with 197 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: science or doing cool other stuff. Yeah, in two thousand five. So, 198 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: as we mentioned there, in all of the various stories 199 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: of this diamond resurfacing, there was not usually attribution of 200 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: like oh I purchased it from this person for the 201 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: sum of money. It just kind of shows up in 202 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: people's catalogs of things that they have, and when it 203 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: left France as the French Blue, it vanished. And then 204 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: two decades later this similarly colored but smaller diamond appeared 205 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: in London. And so there had always been this almost 206 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: a presumption I think on the part of a lot 207 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: of historians that yes, that is the same piece, but 208 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: it was just that it wasn't supported by anything but 209 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. But that changed in two thousand five. That's 210 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,239 Speaker 1: when a research team was able to use computer analysis 211 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: to determine that the Hope diamond was indeed part of 212 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: what had been the French Blue, so it confirmed its lineage. 213 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: The team worked from detailed sketches of the jewel that 214 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: were made when it was part of the French Royal collection. 215 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: Then Smithsonian Gem curator Jeffrey Post and his team were 216 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: able to assemble computer models of the stone, it it's 217 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: eighteenth century state, and see the Hope diamond would have 218 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: nested into it perfectly in one orientation. In an interview 219 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: with the Associated Press, post said, it turns out it 220 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: actually fits perfectly in only one way. But at that orientation, 221 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: when you saw how it fit, you could see why 222 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: it was cut the way it is. They cut the 223 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: corners off the French Blue, changed slightly the angle of 224 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: the bottom facets, and that produced the Hope Diamond. Uh. 225 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: And then in two thousand and eight of French research 226 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: team did a similar analysis using scanners and lasers on 227 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: a lead copy of the French Blue that was found 228 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: in the National Museum of Natural History in Paris. There's 229 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: one name that here as well, but this is the 230 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: Parisian one, and working with measurements from the Smithsonian of 231 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: the Hope Diamond for comparison. So the two museums were 232 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: working in conjunction. Uh, they came to the same conclusion. 233 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: It really just bolstered the earlier findings that in fact, 234 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 1: this diamond hadn't been a part of this bigger diamond, 235 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: and they were able to really kind of identify how 236 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: it had been cut down, which is really cool. My 237 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: love how there's a lead copy of it. Yeah, that 238 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: was just sitting in there a long time and was like, hey, 239 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: let's compare these things in. A team of scientists at 240 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: the Natural History Museum drilled into the Hope diamond to 241 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: remove atoms from it to study it. Drilled may sound scary, 242 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: but the crater created by the eye on being used 243 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: in the procedure was only ten ang strums deep. That's 244 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: just a hair more than four billions of an inch. Yeah, 245 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: it was a very precise, uh procedure that was done, 246 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: and it the way it's described, it's like they hit 247 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: it with this eye on beam and then there's like 248 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: a vacuum effect of the atoms that get kicked up 249 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: being pulled into their receptacle for analysis. And uh, those 250 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: initial results that they got from it indicated the presence 251 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: of carbon hydrogen, possibly nitrogen, and boron, which they had 252 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: already suspected because the boron is credited as giving the 253 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: diamond its blue hue. And what's interesting is that it's 254 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: actually not uniform a minutes distribution throughout the diamond, which 255 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: means that the Hope diamond is actually multiple shades of blues. 256 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: But to the naked eye it looks quite uniform when 257 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: exposed to UV light, the diamond exhibits a mysterious red 258 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:18,119 Speaker 1: glow when the light is extinguished. That's because when exposed 259 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: to you, if you light the boron and nitrogen and 260 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: the diamond interact in a way that produces sposeporesceence. The 261 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: sposeporessence is expressed in the form of a red glue. Yeah, 262 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: and it glows that way for several minutes. It doesn't 263 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: just like you know when you turn off the UVY light, 264 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't just glow slowly quickly and burn right out. 265 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: It really holds the glow for a little while. And 266 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: that's one of those things that when um scientists were 267 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: first announcing that they had discovered that it glowed red 268 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: and other blue diamonds do the same thing, uh that 269 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: people attributed it back to the curse again, like, oh, 270 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: it's got mystical powers. It's glowing red because it's haunted, 271 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: but in fact it's um uh born and nitrogen interacting 272 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: with them the gym. And I think one of the 273 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: really fun notes that came out of this while I 274 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: was doing research is that any time any of these 275 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: scientific tests are being done, it's usually in the dead 276 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: of night, like when the museum's closed, they have to 277 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: pull an all nighter to take it off display and 278 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: do these things like drill into it carefully or take 279 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: it out of its setting. Uh. And as Jeffrey Post, 280 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: who he mentioned earlier, he's the geologist and curator at 281 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: the National Museum. He told Kenneth Chang of The New 282 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: York Times quote, the public gets really surly when the 283 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: Hope Diamond is not there on public display. So that's 284 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: why they have to vary very carefully, uh, select their 285 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: times when they can work on it. When they know 286 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: that they have is not surprised me at all. Yeah, 287 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: and so that actually slows some of the scientific research 288 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: because they have to rush it back to display before 289 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: the museum opens in the morning. Now I'm imagining like 290 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: Harry docents being by people who came just to see 291 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: the Hope Diamond. Yeah. I mean, as we said, it 292 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: is one of the most visited museum exhibits in the 293 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: entire world. Like going to see the Mona Lisa, and 294 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: the Mona Lisa's on display that day, there's like a 295 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: big sign that's like part in our progress or like seriously, 296 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: I came all the way to France. Yeah, because people 297 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: do make um trips just to see that one thing. 298 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: I mean, that's not part of And I feel like 299 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: I could be remembering this wrong. I feel like that 300 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,679 Speaker 1: when I saw the Hope Diamond as a child, that 301 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: it was a trip, a family trip to Washington, d C. 302 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: And I feel like it had just returned from that 303 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: nine eighties being away, Like there was a big promotion 304 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: around the Hope Diamond being back. Kind ready was really 305 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 1: excited about it. Yeah, they have to be very anytime 306 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,239 Speaker 1: it is going to leave or go off display for 307 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: any period of time, they really have to message it early, 308 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: very clearly. Not here. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you'll see 309 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 1: on the Smithsonian website. Anytime any really any of their 310 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: big exhibits are going to come down, there's usually like 311 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: a big alert this thing is not going to be 312 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: on public display for the following times. Uh yeah, I 313 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: think as you can imagine. Yeah, I think the last 314 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: time that I was in uh d C. And went 315 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: to the Smithsonian, I think I thought about going to 316 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: see it and instead I look that dinosaurs. See. I 317 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: think I've done that many times and I'm overdue. So 318 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: I need to make another trip there and go see it. So, yeah, 319 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: whether you look at the hope I'm in from a 320 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: historic angle because it has traveled through uh, the pages 321 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: of history for hundreds of years, or the curse angle, 322 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: of which it's there's a lot to talk about there, 323 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: whether you believe in curses or not. It's interesting how 324 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: people want to attribute every bad thing that happens to 325 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: this diamond or the scientific angle. Uh. It's a really 326 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: unique and entrancing gym, and it's no wonder everyone's heard 327 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: about it, even if the stories have kind of gotten 328 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 1: jumbled at times along the way. Um. But I think 329 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: what's really interesting is that we're probably going to get 330 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: a lot more scientific research done in the next several years. Again, 331 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: it's slow going because they have to do it in 332 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: the middle of the night. Uh, but I know that 333 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: they kind of the curators there kind of look at 334 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: it as almost a portal into geological history because it 335 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: has been around for so long. So since we've confirmed 336 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: but it's from France and was stolen from France, or 337 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: any talk of it returning France. No. In fact, when 338 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: that French team published their uh thing, please don't give 339 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 1: it back it's cursed. No, it wasn't even that they 340 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: were like it's really unlikely. You know, it's been at 341 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian for so long, and you know there's a 342 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: very cooperative trust amongst the museums. Anyway, Uh, it doesn't 343 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: seem like there's any big effort or desire to chase 344 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: that down because even if it was stolen from the 345 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: French monarchy or the you know, revolutionary government, at that point, 346 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: it had been so long ago. And remember it didn't 347 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: surface again in London until after the Statute of limitations 348 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: on the theft would have run out convenient. So yeah, 349 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: so it's um, it's a really probably not uh an 350 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: issue worth fighting over or even you know, starting the 351 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: paperwork would be probably a train wreck of a of 352 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: man hours, So not really likely. I would be shocked 353 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: if at some point the French guvernment said give me that, 354 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: give that back its hours side want the pretty? Do 355 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: you also have some? Most I do what I'm over 356 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: due to read this one. This one comes from our 357 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: listener Christopher, who says, greetings for the land of the 358 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: Rising Sun. It's a postcard, says, I am in the 359 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: Navy stationed in Japan and have listened to all of 360 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: your episodes during the long days at sea. I appreciate 361 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: the research on each topic. Recently, I listened to several 362 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: episodes while hiking to the top of Mount Fuji. That 363 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: the good work. I just wanted to read that because 364 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: thank you for your service, Christopher. We appreciate it an 365 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: awful lot. And I like knowing that you know it's 366 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: been listen to the Mount Fuji and that's see and 367 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: let's see, and it's a really beautiful picture of Mount Fuji. 368 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: It's a little weather beaten because coming through the postal service, 369 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,440 Speaker 1: postcards don't always get treated with tender, loving gear. Even 370 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: once they get into our building, they're not always student. 371 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: There are many points along the path that things can 372 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: really meet. A rough lot of sporting has to have 373 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: rough activity. So if you would like to write to us, 374 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: you can do so in History podcast that discovery dot com. 375 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: You can connect with us on Twitter at misst in 376 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: history or on Facebook dot com slash history class Stuff. 377 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: You can also visit us at missing history dot tumbler 378 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: dot com, or on Pinterest, where we have a board 379 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: full of historical things to behold. If you would like 380 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: to learn more about what we talked about today, you 381 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: can go to our website and type in the word 382 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: curses in the search bar and you will get an 383 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: article called ten famous curses and unfortunately the Hope diamond 384 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: curse is not included, but many others are uh and 385 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: you can also research almost anything else you would like 386 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: in our website, which is how stuff works dot com. 387 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is 388 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. 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