WEBVTT - Yusuf/Cat Stevens 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:24.396 Pushkin. Since debuting in the late sixties, use of Kat 0:00:24.436 --> 0:00:27.476 Stevens has made a sizeable contribution to the folk cannon 0:00:27.716 --> 0:00:32.476 with tender, contemplative songs like wild World, Moonshadow, and the Wind. 0:00:33.516 --> 0:00:37.516 I listen to the Wind, to the wind of my soul, 0:00:41.596 --> 0:00:45.876 where I'll lend up well? I think only God really knows. 0:00:47.916 --> 0:00:50.116 Use of Kat stevens journey as a seeker and a 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:53.636 musician is closely tied to his near death experience fighting 0:00:53.676 --> 0:00:56.556 to berculosis as a young man in nineteen sixty nine. 0:00:57.236 --> 0:01:00.276 After spending a year recovering, Stevens began to write songs 0:01:00.316 --> 0:01:03.636 at a staggering rate. By the mid seventies, he had 0:01:03.676 --> 0:01:06.756 released eight studio albums and become one of the defining 0:01:06.836 --> 0:01:11.276 singer songwriters of the decade. Teaser in the Firect, one 0:01:11.316 --> 0:01:15.156 of those classic seventies albums, was recently reissued to celebrate 0:01:15.156 --> 0:01:20.076 its fiftieth anniversary. The new edition features remastered versions of 0:01:20.076 --> 0:01:24.036 the original album, along with forty one previously unreleased demos 0:01:24.156 --> 0:01:28.196 and alternate mixes. On today's episode, Bruce Heedlam talks to 0:01:28.276 --> 0:01:30.156 Yusef about what it was like to perform his old 0:01:30.156 --> 0:01:32.636 songs after he converted to Islam in the late seventies. 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:35.676 They also talk in detail about how Stevens wrote and 0:01:35.716 --> 0:01:38.356 recorded Teaser in the Fire Cat, and they talk about 0:01:38.396 --> 0:01:40.556 how he came to love some of the rough versions 0:01:40.556 --> 0:01:42.876 of his songs that appeared on the soundtrack for the 0:01:42.916 --> 0:01:45.876 movie Harold and mod which was also just recently re 0:01:45.876 --> 0:01:52.916 released for its own fiftieth anniversary. This is broken record 0:01:53.116 --> 0:02:01.156 liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's 0:02:01.156 --> 0:02:05.516 Bruce Edlam with Yusef Kat Stevens. I want to talk 0:02:05.556 --> 0:02:09.516 about everything in this whole new package for Teaser in 0:02:09.556 --> 0:02:13.316 the Fire Cat. It's got demos and nice little remembrances 0:02:13.396 --> 0:02:17.916 from Rick Wakeman and Carly Simon. But before that, I 0:02:18.036 --> 0:02:20.196 just would like to know what was your life like. 0:02:20.636 --> 0:02:22.396 You'd had a couple albums, but then you had your 0:02:22.476 --> 0:02:25.516 big album T for the Tillerman and I'm not sure 0:02:25.556 --> 0:02:27.636 if Harold and Maud was out yet by the time 0:02:28.316 --> 0:02:30.716 you were writing this album, But what was the sort 0:02:30.756 --> 0:02:33.356 of the state of your life before going in to 0:02:33.476 --> 0:02:36.596 do Teaser in the Firect. First of all, I was 0:02:36.796 --> 0:02:41.156 re emerging, if you like, finding my new identity, because 0:02:41.436 --> 0:02:46.036 I'd gone through a very initial spell of pop stardom, 0:02:46.196 --> 0:02:50.276 you may say, and I was writing very different kind 0:02:50.316 --> 0:02:53.076 of songs really. I mean, those those early songs which 0:02:53.116 --> 0:02:57.036 were released on Decca were very poppy, and they always 0:02:57.076 --> 0:02:59.716 had an arrangement, you know, so it wasn't me playing 0:02:59.756 --> 0:03:03.276 the guitar. It was always session man, you know, being 0:03:03.276 --> 0:03:06.156 paid to do this. And I had a producer who 0:03:06.196 --> 0:03:08.996 was just infatuated with pat sounds, but he could never 0:03:09.276 --> 0:03:11.756 create pet sounds with my music. So it was kind 0:03:11.756 --> 0:03:13.916 of a little bit. I was feeling a little bit odd, 0:03:14.356 --> 0:03:18.396 not really being myself, not able to be myself. So 0:03:18.436 --> 0:03:23.756 now time progresses and really I find myself after after 0:03:23.836 --> 0:03:28.396 having contracted tuberculosis and going into hospital, and suddenly, you know, 0:03:28.516 --> 0:03:31.156 I looked at life completely differently. I said, this time, 0:03:31.236 --> 0:03:33.956 I'm gonna I'm going to try and take charge at 0:03:34.036 --> 0:03:37.276 least of my music. And so then I started writing, 0:03:37.356 --> 0:03:41.316 and that's where plethora of songs just k flooded out 0:03:41.316 --> 0:03:45.476 of me. They more or less formed the basic song 0:03:45.556 --> 0:03:48.116 list of my next three albums, you know, which included 0:03:48.436 --> 0:03:51.876 Mona Bone, Jakan, and Teeth for the Tillerman and of 0:03:51.876 --> 0:03:55.116 course Teasing the Firecat. Although yeah, there were other songs 0:03:55.116 --> 0:03:57.076 which I had yet to be write, you know, and 0:03:57.156 --> 0:03:59.996 yet to find like Morning is Broken for instance. You 0:04:00.036 --> 0:04:02.356 know that wasn't mine. Yes, So I was in this 0:04:02.476 --> 0:04:07.396 state where i'd come back and I was really really 0:04:07.396 --> 0:04:11.356 happy that I found a label, which is Island Records, 0:04:11.836 --> 0:04:16.476 that allowed me to just be myself and producer and 0:04:16.556 --> 0:04:19.396 a bunch of musicians that really just supported me and 0:04:19.476 --> 0:04:21.556 let me just be myself. And that was great. It 0:04:21.556 --> 0:04:24.036 was a miracle, you know, compared to what I sounded 0:04:24.076 --> 0:04:27.316 like before that, this was totally different. And so some people, 0:04:27.356 --> 0:04:30.396 I suppose in UK because that's why I said my 0:04:30.436 --> 0:04:34.596 first career really began and Europe, who you know, is 0:04:34.636 --> 0:04:36.876 this true? You know, is it really the same guy? 0:04:37.836 --> 0:04:41.156 So I'd made quite change in my life, and then 0:04:41.196 --> 0:04:43.676 that became my modus up or endi. You know, I 0:04:43.716 --> 0:04:48.156 was continuously walking through thresholds and trying to reach a 0:04:48.196 --> 0:04:52.316 new height, you know, somewhere better than where I was. 0:04:52.916 --> 0:04:56.196 So Teaser came off the back of if you like 0:04:56.316 --> 0:04:59.196 Teefa Tilamu. Now that was kind of pretty much a 0:04:59.236 --> 0:05:02.836 milestone record, although I didn't really realize it at the time, 0:05:03.276 --> 0:05:06.156 but in retrospect you can see it now. But you 0:05:06.156 --> 0:05:07.556 know a lot of people were saying, well, is he 0:05:07.636 --> 0:05:09.996 going to be able to do something as good? You know? 0:05:10.116 --> 0:05:13.556 And so this was me sort of riding a wave 0:05:14.036 --> 0:05:18.116 and inspired and I think forfeiting taking all the boxes 0:05:18.116 --> 0:05:20.556 to anybody, you know. But in front of me, were 0:05:20.556 --> 0:05:23.556 you feeling pressure after tea for the tellerman to come 0:05:23.636 --> 0:05:26.956 up with something as successful? No, I was. It was 0:05:27.036 --> 0:05:29.316 kind of easy. Was something I was doing anyway, you know, 0:05:29.356 --> 0:05:32.316 So I don't think I had to try. It was 0:05:32.916 --> 0:05:36.196 people were absorbing my music as fast as I could 0:05:36.236 --> 0:05:38.516 make it, you know. I was having a great reception 0:05:38.596 --> 0:05:42.196 with my music. You mentioned in the introduction to the 0:05:42.236 --> 0:05:46.356 booklet that's included with this new edition that there were 0:05:46.356 --> 0:05:49.596 a lot of people around James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Elton John. 0:05:49.876 --> 0:05:52.716 I think you mentioned Carol King and you said there 0:05:52.836 --> 0:05:55.476 was a competition at least sort of listening through the 0:05:55.476 --> 0:05:57.636 walls at the recording studio. I don't know if you 0:05:57.676 --> 0:06:00.996 meant that literally or figuratively. Were you listening to those 0:06:01.036 --> 0:06:03.556 people and thinking, huh, I've got to pick it up, 0:06:03.596 --> 0:06:06.556 I've got to do something different. No, no, no. When 0:06:06.556 --> 0:06:08.916 we talk about competition, it was like only after you 0:06:09.356 --> 0:06:11.236 when you've made the record, you know. So you're seeing 0:06:11.436 --> 0:06:13.916 how well your record company to do with your music. 0:06:13.956 --> 0:06:15.956 It wasn't really that I've got to write a better 0:06:15.956 --> 0:06:19.036 song than Elton John. It wasn't anything like that. It 0:06:19.116 --> 0:06:21.996 was just seeing whether or not people were hearing you. 0:06:22.596 --> 0:06:25.876 And that was the competition, you know. So yeah, the charts, 0:06:25.996 --> 0:06:28.596 you know, it's like a track race. You know, you're 0:06:28.596 --> 0:06:30.716 trying to get to the top. But it's it's not 0:06:30.756 --> 0:06:34.316 that you want to necessarily downbeat the person in front 0:06:34.316 --> 0:06:36.596 of you. You know, you just want your record companies 0:06:36.596 --> 0:06:39.276 to make sure that everybody gets gets to see you win. 0:06:39.556 --> 0:06:44.516 That's all. What did Ireland Records see that Decca didn't 0:06:44.516 --> 0:06:48.516 see when you started with Island Records, Well, it was 0:06:48.636 --> 0:06:54.276 really a very introspective new approach to lyric writing. I 0:06:54.356 --> 0:06:57.596 was writing my autobiography, if you like, through my music 0:06:57.756 --> 0:07:00.436 and you know, my lyrics. It was whatever I was learning, 0:07:00.476 --> 0:07:03.196 whatever I was reading. You know, I was into metaphysical 0:07:03.236 --> 0:07:06.716 books and trying to find out, you know, the eye 0:07:07.316 --> 0:07:10.876 behind me or with in me. Buddhist books. You know, 0:07:11.276 --> 0:07:15.116 I was reaching out then and so therefore anything that 0:07:15.156 --> 0:07:17.796 I was discovering I kind of like wrote about it 0:07:17.996 --> 0:07:20.796 very quickly. So if you listen to the wind. You know, 0:07:20.876 --> 0:07:24.836 there you have a perfect example of my state of mind, 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:28.596 you know, waiting for the inspiration, which is the wind. 0:07:28.636 --> 0:07:31.476 You know, it's a symbol of the wind. And in fact, 0:07:31.796 --> 0:07:35.156 it's interesting that that word is very close to the wind. 0:07:35.436 --> 0:07:38.596 Inspiration is like a wind. Did you know that's what 0:07:38.716 --> 0:07:40.436 you were feeling at the time or did it just 0:07:40.476 --> 0:07:42.796 sort of come out of you and then once you 0:07:42.836 --> 0:07:45.076 wrote the song, you said, oh, this, this must be 0:07:45.116 --> 0:07:47.796 what I'm feeling, This must be what I'm thinking. Well, 0:07:47.916 --> 0:07:49.636 you know I was thinking. I was I was trying 0:07:49.676 --> 0:07:52.196 to lay it down that was that was what I 0:07:52.236 --> 0:07:54.276 was doing, and I think I did pretty well. You know, 0:07:54.556 --> 0:07:57.316 a lot of people really connected. I mean I wrote 0:07:57.316 --> 0:07:59.676 most of these songs in a little bedsit you know 0:07:59.676 --> 0:08:02.476 where my father gave me this little flat above the cafe, 0:08:02.916 --> 0:08:06.156 my Dad's cafe in London, and it was just one 0:08:06.196 --> 0:08:09.556 little beds and that was really the epitome of the 0:08:09.636 --> 0:08:12.036 kind of the audience that I had because they were 0:08:12.036 --> 0:08:15.556 all inspectives listening to me too, and there was a 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:20.316 kind of this community of introspective people looking at the 0:08:20.316 --> 0:08:22.716 world and looking at what the challenges are out there, 0:08:22.756 --> 0:08:25.676 and there's a whole lot of competition going on. But actually, 0:08:26.316 --> 0:08:28.556 when I talked about competition, I didn't mean that that's 0:08:28.596 --> 0:08:30.996 why I wrote songs. I mean, god, no, it was 0:08:31.036 --> 0:08:33.476 just that that was just the business side. As I said, 0:08:33.716 --> 0:08:36.356 it was really my internal journey that I was really 0:08:36.556 --> 0:08:41.076 concentrating on, and that connected very very deeply. Was the 0:08:41.116 --> 0:08:43.516 Win the first song you wrote for this album. I 0:08:43.556 --> 0:08:45.756 note you wrote a lot of songs when you were recovering, 0:08:46.236 --> 0:08:49.716 but because it's it's such an interesting song to begin 0:08:49.756 --> 0:08:54.276 an album with. Teaser is a much rockier, harder edged 0:08:54.356 --> 0:08:57.716 album than TFA the Tellerman, at least I think some 0:08:57.756 --> 0:09:00.316 of the songs and you start on a very kind 0:09:00.316 --> 0:09:04.076 of pensive note. Did that song come to you first 0:09:04.156 --> 0:09:06.876 or did you just feel it introduced the album best. 0:09:07.516 --> 0:09:11.596 I think it represented who I was better than any 0:09:11.596 --> 0:09:14.316 other because the other songs were a little bit more arranged, 0:09:14.396 --> 0:09:16.956 you know, there was more sounds, more drums, more everything. 0:09:16.996 --> 0:09:20.796 This was really scaled down me, you know, peeled down 0:09:20.836 --> 0:09:23.516 to the call. And that's why we loved it. And 0:09:23.556 --> 0:09:26.956 that's and that's why I think people also appreciate when 0:09:26.956 --> 0:09:29.276 they listen to the album, this is the beginning. This 0:09:29.356 --> 0:09:32.116 is the beginning. Of this journey. And it's funny because 0:09:32.116 --> 0:09:33.956 it's not even me playing guitar at the beginning. That's 0:09:33.996 --> 0:09:37.756 actually Alan. He plays this lovely little arpeggio thing and 0:09:37.796 --> 0:09:39.956 then I come in. But the words of that song 0:09:39.996 --> 0:09:43.676 are so so profound, you know, I think just keep 0:09:43.716 --> 0:09:46.356 reflecting on them, and they mean so much. When I 0:09:46.396 --> 0:09:50.196 talk about I'll never make the same mistake, Well, that's 0:09:50.196 --> 0:09:53.676 our problem, you know, as human beings were always making mistakes, 0:09:53.796 --> 0:09:58.596 and but that's the other characteristic of human beings is 0:09:58.636 --> 0:10:01.436 that we try to develop and get over them and 0:10:01.516 --> 0:10:04.516 do something better. And you know, so that's it's great. 0:10:04.556 --> 0:10:07.756 It's got so many aspects to that song. It also 0:10:07.796 --> 0:10:11.076 introduces this the to the record, which is in some 0:10:11.156 --> 0:10:14.396 of the sort of rockier songs as well of putting 0:10:14.396 --> 0:10:19.996 the past behind Changes four, particularly Tuesday's Dead. It runs 0:10:20.756 --> 0:10:23.556 throughout this album, this feeling that you've got to put 0:10:23.556 --> 0:10:27.116 the past behind you. Is that something you felt strongly 0:10:27.156 --> 0:10:29.956 at the time about your career or your life? Yeah, 0:10:29.956 --> 0:10:32.076 I mean I was looking back at Decca, you know, 0:10:32.116 --> 0:10:35.036 the old Decca days, and that was more like looking 0:10:35.236 --> 0:10:38.076 looking back at Dickens, you know, the times of Dickens. 0:10:39.316 --> 0:10:42.156 That's what it felt like to me, but the past. 0:10:42.236 --> 0:10:44.516 I mean, when you look at a song like Changes, 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:47.156 I knew there were a few other songs called Changes, 0:10:47.196 --> 0:10:49.396 So that's that's why I called it Changes four. I 0:10:49.436 --> 0:10:51.316 didn't know if there were three before that where there 0:10:51.356 --> 0:10:53.516 were twenty, I don't know, but I call it Changes 0:10:53.596 --> 0:10:57.436 four just to distinguish this's this one from what David 0:10:57.436 --> 0:11:01.996 Bowie had one too. So therefore Changes. You know, we 0:11:01.996 --> 0:11:05.836 were really we had high expectations and we were definitely 0:11:06.116 --> 0:11:10.356 in the political mood. The generation, our generation was trying 0:11:10.396 --> 0:11:14.036 to really change things around everything, to leave the past 0:11:14.076 --> 0:11:17.716 and go forward. But you know, political barricades were not 0:11:17.876 --> 0:11:24.316 easy to overcome. This album also has a strong gospel feel. 0:11:24.596 --> 0:11:27.436 It is Morning is Broken, which is a hymn, not gospel. 0:11:27.476 --> 0:11:31.356 Particularly growing up was what were your influences when you 0:11:31.396 --> 0:11:34.076 were first starting to play the piano and the guitar. 0:11:34.876 --> 0:11:38.116 Oh well, I had all kinds of influences because I 0:11:38.156 --> 0:11:40.956 lived in the center of London and so you can imagine, 0:11:40.996 --> 0:11:44.396 you know, I had a theater across the road on 0:11:44.436 --> 0:11:47.836 my doorstep. I went to school in Drury Lane, you know, 0:11:48.236 --> 0:11:50.116 I mean there were all the cinemas, all the clubs, 0:11:50.276 --> 0:11:53.276 tin pan Alli my best friend. Actually his father had 0:11:53.276 --> 0:11:55.316 a restaurant too, and he was just on Tin Pallet 0:11:55.356 --> 0:11:58.036 that was about four hundred yards away, you know, so 0:11:58.116 --> 0:12:01.396 it was all where I lived, soho it was just 0:12:01.436 --> 0:12:03.996 a little bit further. Piccadilly was the other end of 0:12:03.996 --> 0:12:08.156 my road. So because of that, I picked up all 0:12:08.276 --> 0:12:12.516 the genres there were, you know, buzzing around. But Westside 0:12:12.596 --> 0:12:16.476 story was it? You know that that really broke or 0:12:16.516 --> 0:12:19.756 all the barriers for me as far as as I 0:12:19.756 --> 0:12:23.516 could see as in music, it had everything. And then 0:12:23.556 --> 0:12:27.396 came the Beatles, you know, and wow, and they were 0:12:27.396 --> 0:12:30.516 getting sourced or their inspiration was also coming from this, 0:12:30.636 --> 0:12:33.196 you know, from the state side. Black artists, you know, 0:12:33.356 --> 0:12:36.356 a little little singles were coming across the water and 0:12:36.396 --> 0:12:38.716 they were listening to them, and you were getting you know, 0:12:39.076 --> 0:12:42.236 Muddy Waters and John Lee Hook and all these people, 0:12:42.516 --> 0:12:45.076 so all that stuff. I was soaking it all up. 0:12:45.356 --> 0:12:48.156 When you were writing these songs, How did there come? 0:12:48.236 --> 0:12:50.796 Was it you and a guitar just finding a key? 0:12:50.916 --> 0:12:53.396 And yeah, it was mostly like that. I mean I 0:12:53.476 --> 0:12:56.156 had a new guitar. I mean, every new guitar has 0:12:56.356 --> 0:12:59.836 its own you know, song within it. And that's another thing. 0:12:59.876 --> 0:13:01.956 But that was a favorite guitar of mine, which was 0:13:02.076 --> 0:13:06.276 black Everly Brothers, you know, Gibson, and I wrote most 0:13:06.316 --> 0:13:07.836 of my songs on there. But then of course I 0:13:07.916 --> 0:13:11.796 had a little Italian organ which sounded really crappy, you know, 0:13:11.916 --> 0:13:14.836 but it gave me so many ideas. I just pressed 0:13:14.836 --> 0:13:17.556 a button. It was another one. And of course when 0:13:17.596 --> 0:13:21.356 the arp synthesizer came out, wow, that was another whole, 0:13:21.516 --> 0:13:24.476 you know, kaleidoscope sound for me to play with. But 0:13:24.716 --> 0:13:28.556 really I kind of jumped from guitar sometimes the piano 0:13:28.596 --> 0:13:31.516 at a piano upstairs in the house, and you know, 0:13:31.636 --> 0:13:34.996 my little organ, and that was it in my little 0:13:34.996 --> 0:13:38.476 tape recording and I was off. You know, no obstacle 0:13:38.516 --> 0:13:43.236 to me writing at all. You're a very muscular guitar 0:13:43.316 --> 0:13:47.796 player and very rhythmic. Unlike a lot of folk music 0:13:47.836 --> 0:13:50.796 of the day. You've got a really strong beat in 0:13:50.836 --> 0:13:52.996 what you do, and the same thing on piano. Like 0:13:53.076 --> 0:13:55.876 when I think of Miles from Nowhere, I hadn't realized 0:13:55.876 --> 0:14:00.156 you'd played that piano part. It's a really great bluesy part. 0:14:00.596 --> 0:14:02.476 Who were the players that influenced you? Because you've got 0:14:02.516 --> 0:14:07.476 such an aggressive rhythmic sound on both instruments. I don't 0:14:07.516 --> 0:14:10.796 really know. I mean that was you know, I suppose 0:14:10.916 --> 0:14:14.276 Ray Charles, you know, if you listen his voice, I mean, 0:14:14.316 --> 0:14:17.396 to be honest, that's that's the voice for the blues, 0:14:17.436 --> 0:14:21.116 I mean, incredible. So and so I was influenced by him. 0:14:21.116 --> 0:14:24.076 I was also influenced by Nina Simon, but I couldn't 0:14:24.076 --> 0:14:26.876 play piano like her, you know, but she did play 0:14:26.916 --> 0:14:30.596 wild piano though. Sometimes you listen to you know, Mississippi 0:14:30.676 --> 0:14:33.276 Goddamn you know bang you know, she does it as well. 0:14:33.716 --> 0:14:36.476 So in those kinds of songs. And then of course 0:14:36.516 --> 0:14:38.516 you've got sad Lisa. You can you can go to 0:14:38.556 --> 0:14:40.476 my classical side and you can see I'm sort of 0:14:40.516 --> 0:14:43.876 very soft, very gentle, you know, on the piano as well. 0:14:44.036 --> 0:14:47.396 So I took on different moods. But I with a 0:14:47.476 --> 0:14:49.076 rock song, of course, you've got to bang it out. 0:14:49.116 --> 0:14:51.876 That's that's why I feel. And were there any guitarists 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:57.076 that influenced you, particularly guitarists are I suppose, looking back 0:14:57.156 --> 0:15:01.796 at the time, Peter Green, you know, oh well, I 0:15:01.796 --> 0:15:04.836 mean that song, I think you can hear a little 0:15:04.836 --> 0:15:06.996 bit of Lady Darbon feeling the way that I play 0:15:07.076 --> 0:15:10.876 that you know that little on the guitar. I'm pretty 0:15:10.876 --> 0:15:13.116 sure it was influenced by Peter Green when it came 0:15:13.156 --> 0:15:15.836 to the groups. I mean, I thought Keith Richards was 0:15:15.876 --> 0:15:20.236 a terrific guitar player. His riffs and he loved a riff. 0:15:20.356 --> 0:15:22.356 You know. You go back to kind of Harley and 0:15:22.396 --> 0:15:25.756 Wall for that kind of thing. Down down, down, dud down. 0:15:26.796 --> 0:15:28.676 Were you the kind of kid who sat there with 0:15:28.716 --> 0:15:32.276 the radio and figured out riffs as you heard them? No, 0:15:32.516 --> 0:15:34.596 in fact, that was one of the real I would 0:15:34.596 --> 0:15:36.916 say motivations for me to write songs that I could 0:15:37.036 --> 0:15:39.716 not work out the chords and it was just too 0:15:39.756 --> 0:15:43.436 tedious to even bother to you know, Oh no, he's changing, 0:15:43.436 --> 0:15:45.676 Oh too quick? Oh that what's that word? Oh no, 0:15:45.996 --> 0:15:48.596 I can't even hear it, you know. So I'd write 0:15:48.596 --> 0:15:52.956 my own songs forget about learning anybody else's. We're taking 0:15:52.996 --> 0:15:54.996 a quick break here, but we'll be right back with 0:15:55.076 --> 0:16:02.996 more from Bruce Helen's conversation with yusef Kat Stephens. We're 0:16:02.996 --> 0:16:05.996 back with more from the use of Kat Stephens. So 0:16:06.596 --> 0:16:09.316 you set down to record this album, and I want 0:16:09.356 --> 0:16:11.636 you to talk about two people who you'd worked with before. 0:16:12.196 --> 0:16:14.836 Paul Samuel Smith. First of all, can you just talk 0:16:14.876 --> 0:16:17.916 a little bit about his influence on you, well, Paul. 0:16:18.036 --> 0:16:20.276 You know, i'd actually seen him in the clubs, you know, 0:16:20.276 --> 0:16:22.756 because when when I was, you know, getting into music, 0:16:23.036 --> 0:16:24.756 I was going to the clubs and he was in 0:16:24.796 --> 0:16:27.236 the Yardbirds. So I saw him at the Hundred Club, 0:16:27.276 --> 0:16:28.836 which was just down the road from where I lived, 0:16:29.476 --> 0:16:31.876 and I used to dance his music, you know, and 0:16:31.876 --> 0:16:34.716 there was other groups there. The Animals used to come down. 0:16:35.236 --> 0:16:38.596 Manfred Mann an awful lot, the who dropped into the market. 0:16:38.596 --> 0:16:40.876 I mean, it's all that going on, but he was 0:16:40.916 --> 0:16:43.596 the baseball. I didn't really notice him, to be honest, 0:16:43.996 --> 0:16:45.756 at that time. It just, you know, you felt it. 0:16:45.796 --> 0:16:47.636 You felt the base didn't really know what he was doing. 0:16:48.116 --> 0:16:51.756 But then, of course, when Chris Blackwell of Ireland Records 0:16:51.756 --> 0:16:54.756 sort of discovered me, he kind of brought Paul on 0:16:54.836 --> 0:16:57.556 board and I listened to an album he had made 0:16:57.836 --> 0:17:01.356 with Renaissance as the kind of British sort of progressive 0:17:01.596 --> 0:17:05.356 folk group, and wow, I loved it. It was so 0:17:06.116 --> 0:17:10.036 clean and English, you know. I loved the ambience which 0:17:10.036 --> 0:17:12.476 he created with that. It's like, you know, sometimes if 0:17:12.516 --> 0:17:16.236 you hear the timbre of a guitar. It's would and 0:17:16.276 --> 0:17:18.116 that's what he tried to capture. He tried to capture 0:17:18.156 --> 0:17:20.476 the nature of the wood of the guitar that I 0:17:20.516 --> 0:17:23.716 was playing, and that was extraordinary. And the other person 0:17:23.796 --> 0:17:27.196 you started working with was Alan Davies. Yeah, so Alan, 0:17:27.276 --> 0:17:29.396 I mean Alan was brought on board kind of like 0:17:29.476 --> 0:17:32.316 as a replacement for someone who Paul actually wanted. It 0:17:32.356 --> 0:17:35.276 was John Mark, but he was busy, so then he's 0:17:35.316 --> 0:17:38.636 that he recommended Alan come along. Alan was kind of thinking, 0:17:39.316 --> 0:17:40.916 you know, this is like cut steam as he was 0:17:41.556 --> 0:17:44.556 sort of this black velvet suit guy, and what's it 0:17:44.556 --> 0:17:46.676 going to be? And then of course he listened to 0:17:46.676 --> 0:17:50.116 the new songs and wow, is blown away and then 0:17:50.196 --> 0:17:55.756 he became my perfect companion. All those little intricate gaps 0:17:55.796 --> 0:17:59.756 that he used to fill and you know, and enhancement. 0:17:59.836 --> 0:18:03.036 It was just incredible how it worked. And so we 0:18:03.076 --> 0:18:05.676 we've been together ever since, ever since those early days 0:18:05.676 --> 0:18:08.636 in Olympic where we first started recording Monamo and Jackin 0:18:09.276 --> 0:18:12.196 was it that made you go so compatible? Well, he 0:18:12.276 --> 0:18:14.236 was blond and I was dark. Here, I mean that's 0:18:14.276 --> 0:18:16.756 basically you know, we just went together. It was a 0:18:16.836 --> 0:18:20.476 great combination. Yin and Yang Sun and Moon. Yeah, but 0:18:20.596 --> 0:18:22.436 you would do all the chords and the strumming, and 0:18:22.476 --> 0:18:25.676 he would do the patterns. Yes, and what it came 0:18:25.716 --> 0:18:28.076 to something like Wild World and you know, you've got 0:18:28.116 --> 0:18:31.356 a few licks which I'm doing, which which he wasn't. 0:18:31.396 --> 0:18:34.356 He was doing more strumming actually on Wild World. So 0:18:34.356 --> 0:18:37.396 we kind of changed around here and there. But you know, 0:18:37.396 --> 0:18:39.476 if you listen to Father and Son, you can hear 0:18:39.516 --> 0:18:43.916 that beautiful response to my first guitar chords. You know, 0:18:44.076 --> 0:18:48.316 down da da da and he goes da da da beautiful. 0:18:48.716 --> 0:18:51.516 Would you just sit and play together to work out 0:18:51.556 --> 0:18:53.876 those things? Is that something you did in studio or 0:18:53.916 --> 0:18:56.596 while you were writing? Oh? No, that was always done 0:18:56.596 --> 0:18:58.476 in the studio. I'd come kind of with a ready 0:18:58.516 --> 0:19:01.996 made well not all the time, they weren't all finished. Like, 0:19:02.076 --> 0:19:04.636 for instance, the first recording of Wild World, I kind 0:19:04.636 --> 0:19:07.436 of had oh, Darling, Darling, it's the world World. No, 0:19:07.516 --> 0:19:10.556 that didn't work. Next day I changed it to oh 0:19:10.636 --> 0:19:13.836 Baby Baby. But usually the songs were formed. You know, 0:19:13.876 --> 0:19:16.676 they've got their character, and I was trying to teach 0:19:16.716 --> 0:19:19.276 them some of these. Occasionally I'll do something on the 0:19:19.316 --> 0:19:22.236 timing that would be slightly different, and that that was 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:24.756 the thing which stumped them, and so we'd have to 0:19:24.756 --> 0:19:27.636 stop and start again until we got that right. But 0:19:27.756 --> 0:19:30.396 usually it would be in the studio that we worked 0:19:30.436 --> 0:19:33.036 this out. Yeah, one of the songs on the album 0:19:33.156 --> 0:19:35.676 is is in seven eight I think you have un 0:19:35.716 --> 0:19:40.116 usual time signature sometimes. Yeah, that was the Greek in me, 0:19:40.236 --> 0:19:43.036 you know, so my father was from Cyprus, so they 0:19:43.076 --> 0:19:45.596 often do this. They do an eleven one too, you know, 0:19:45.716 --> 0:19:50.316 eleven eight time signature too, and sometimes they swap it around. Well, 0:19:50.356 --> 0:19:52.836 actually Allen didn't play on that one, to be honest, 0:19:53.156 --> 0:19:58.316 it was you know, Andreas Tumazi, you know, a friend 0:19:58.356 --> 0:20:00.916 I met, a buzuki player who, of course, you know, 0:20:01.036 --> 0:20:04.196 did that so naturally, you know, like in his sleep. 0:20:04.436 --> 0:20:07.316 Did you listen to Greek music growing up, Well, yeah, 0:20:07.316 --> 0:20:09.636 because we went to weddings and that's the new music 0:20:09.636 --> 0:20:13.356 they had, you know, for sure. My brother also my 0:20:13.436 --> 0:20:17.316 half brother my father's first marriage. His name was George 0:20:17.356 --> 0:20:20.356 and he was a bazooki player and he actually played violin. 0:20:20.396 --> 0:20:22.516 So I used to go and see him play at 0:20:22.516 --> 0:20:26.516 the weddings. But you never played yourself the bazooki. No, 0:20:26.676 --> 0:20:28.516 it was very difficult to hold because it's kind of 0:20:28.556 --> 0:20:31.796 like a bowl um and you know it's balancing that 0:20:31.836 --> 0:20:34.876 thing is not easy. So guitar is much better, much easier. 0:20:35.676 --> 0:20:39.196 When I was talking about your guitar playing and you 0:20:39.276 --> 0:20:42.276 mentioned you had the Everly Brothers Gibson, it makes me 0:20:42.316 --> 0:20:45.996 think your guitar playing is a little like the Everly Brothers. Yeah, 0:20:46.036 --> 0:20:50.276 you could say that. I mean also, yeah, you Eddie Cochran, 0:20:50.356 --> 0:20:54.756 you know, if you know d you know, I love 0:20:54.836 --> 0:20:58.636 that kind of thing, the riffs. M we're using full chords, 0:20:58.676 --> 0:21:00.196 you know what I mean, Like he listened to UM, 0:21:00.876 --> 0:21:03.116 I wasn't electric, but you know it's the same kind 0:21:03.116 --> 0:21:07.676 of thing that Kinks did. I love all that, all 0:21:07.676 --> 0:21:11.676 those kind of h cordy riffs. Did you see the 0:21:11.756 --> 0:21:15.036 Kinks as well live? You saw so many great bands live, Yeah, 0:21:15.196 --> 0:21:17.316 Kinks as well. Yeah, for sure they were. They were 0:21:17.476 --> 0:21:19.836 doing the circuits as well. I have to ask you 0:21:19.876 --> 0:21:22.116 what it was like to see the Kinks back then. Well, 0:21:22.156 --> 0:21:25.516 they were very odd, you know, and but they were 0:21:25.516 --> 0:21:27.556 more kind of R and B in the beginning. You 0:21:27.596 --> 0:21:30.396 could hear that for sure. You know, they were listening 0:21:30.396 --> 0:21:32.116 to all the songs that were coming over, you know, 0:21:32.196 --> 0:21:36.396 from Stateside and the sort of Martown influence as well. 0:21:36.716 --> 0:21:40.836 You could hear that Fortune Teller I Reckon was an 0:21:40.836 --> 0:21:43.876 inspiration for You Really Got Me Too? You know so well, 0:21:44.036 --> 0:21:47.956 all those kind of songs influenced them and they interpreted 0:21:47.996 --> 0:21:50.156 it their way, sort of their British way, in a 0:21:50.196 --> 0:21:52.556 British sound. I want to talk to you about a 0:21:52.556 --> 0:21:54.876 couple of specific songs on the album. It's one of 0:21:54.876 --> 0:21:56.516 these albums I grew up with, so I know it 0:21:56.876 --> 0:22:00.636