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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Since debuting in the late sixties, use of Kat

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Speaker 1: Stevens has made a sizeable contribution to the folk cannon

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Speaker 1: with tender, contemplative songs like wild World, Moonshadow, and the Wind.

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Speaker 1: I listen to the Wind, to the wind of my soul,

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Speaker 1: where I'll lend up well? I think only God really knows.

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Speaker 1: Use of Kat stevens journey as a seeker and a

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Speaker 1: musician is closely tied to his near death experience fighting

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Speaker 1: to berculosis as a young man in nineteen sixty nine.

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Speaker 1: After spending a year recovering, Stevens began to write songs

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Speaker 1: at a staggering rate. By the mid seventies, he had

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Speaker 1: released eight studio albums and become one of the defining

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Speaker 1: singer songwriters of the decade. Teaser in the Firect, one

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Speaker 1: of those classic seventies albums, was recently reissued to celebrate

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Speaker 1: its fiftieth anniversary. The new edition features remastered versions of

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Speaker 1: the original album, along with forty one previously unreleased demos

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Speaker 1: and alternate mixes. On today's episode, Bruce Heedlam talks to

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Speaker 1: Yusef about what it was like to perform his old

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Speaker 1: songs after he converted to Islam in the late seventies.

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Speaker 1: They also talk in detail about how Stevens wrote and

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Speaker 1: recorded Teaser in the Fire Cat, and they talk about

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Speaker 1: how he came to love some of the rough versions

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Speaker 1: of his songs that appeared on the soundtrack for the

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Speaker 1: movie Harold and mod which was also just recently re

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Speaker 1: released for its own fiftieth anniversary. This is broken record

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Speaker 1: liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmondson. Here's

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Speaker 1: Bruce Edlam with Yusef Kat Stevens. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about everything in this whole new package for Teaser in

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Speaker 1: the Fire Cat. It's got demos and nice little remembrances

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Speaker 1: from Rick Wakeman and Carly Simon. But before that, I

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Speaker 1: just would like to know what was your life like.

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Speaker 1: You'd had a couple albums, but then you had your

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Speaker 1: big album T for the Tillerman and I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if Harold and Maud was out yet by the time

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Speaker 1: you were writing this album, But what was the sort

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Speaker 1: of the state of your life before going in to

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Speaker 1: do Teaser in the Firect. First of all, I was

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Speaker 1: re emerging, if you like, finding my new identity, because

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Speaker 1: I'd gone through a very initial spell of pop stardom,

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Speaker 1: you may say, and I was writing very different kind

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Speaker 1: of songs really. I mean, those those early songs which

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Speaker 1: were released on Decca were very poppy, and they always

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Speaker 1: had an arrangement, you know, so it wasn't me playing

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Speaker 1: the guitar. It was always session man, you know, being

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Speaker 1: paid to do this. And I had a producer who

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Speaker 1: was just infatuated with pat sounds, but he could never

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Speaker 1: create pet sounds with my music. So it was kind

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Speaker 1: of a little bit. I was feeling a little bit odd,

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Speaker 1: not really being myself, not able to be myself. So

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Speaker 1: now time progresses and really I find myself after after

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Speaker 1: having contracted tuberculosis and going into hospital, and suddenly, you know,

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Speaker 1: I looked at life completely differently. I said, this time,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to try and take charge at

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Speaker 1: least of my music. And so then I started writing,

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Speaker 1: and that's where plethora of songs just k flooded out

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Speaker 1: of me. They more or less formed the basic song

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Speaker 1: list of my next three albums, you know, which included

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Speaker 1: Mona Bone, Jakan, and Teeth for the Tillerman and of

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Speaker 1: course Teasing the Firecat. Although yeah, there were other songs

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Speaker 1: which I had yet to be write, you know, and

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Speaker 1: yet to find like Morning is Broken for instance. You

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Speaker 1: know that wasn't mine. Yes, So I was in this

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Speaker 1: state where i'd come back and I was really really

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Speaker 1: happy that I found a label, which is Island Records,

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Speaker 1: that allowed me to just be myself and producer and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of musicians that really just supported me and

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Speaker 1: let me just be myself. And that was great. It

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Speaker 1: was a miracle, you know, compared to what I sounded

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Speaker 1: like before that, this was totally different. And so some people,

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Speaker 1: I suppose in UK because that's why I said my

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Speaker 1: first career really began and Europe, who you know, is

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Speaker 1: this true? You know, is it really the same guy?

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Speaker 1: So I'd made quite change in my life, and then

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Speaker 1: that became my modus up or endi. You know, I

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Speaker 1: was continuously walking through thresholds and trying to reach a

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Speaker 1: new height, you know, somewhere better than where I was.

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Speaker 1: So Teaser came off the back of if you like

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Speaker 1: Teefa Tilamu. Now that was kind of pretty much a

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Speaker 1: milestone record, although I didn't really realize it at the time,

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Speaker 1: but in retrospect you can see it now. But you

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Speaker 1: know a lot of people were saying, well, is he

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Speaker 1: going to be able to do something as good? You know?

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Speaker 1: And so this was me sort of riding a wave

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Speaker 1: and inspired and I think forfeiting taking all the boxes

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Speaker 1: to anybody, you know. But in front of me, were

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Speaker 1: you feeling pressure after tea for the tellerman to come

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Speaker 1: up with something as successful? No, I was. It was

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Speaker 1: kind of easy. Was something I was doing anyway, you know,

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Speaker 1: So I don't think I had to try. It was

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Speaker 1: people were absorbing my music as fast as I could

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Speaker 1: make it, you know. I was having a great reception

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Speaker 1: with my music. You mentioned in the introduction to the

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Speaker 1: booklet that's included with this new edition that there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of people around James Taylor, Joni Mitchell, Elton John.

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Speaker 1: I think you mentioned Carol King and you said there

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Speaker 1: was a competition at least sort of listening through the

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Speaker 1: walls at the recording studio. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: meant that literally or figuratively. Were you listening to those

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Speaker 1: people and thinking, huh, I've got to pick it up,

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Speaker 1: I've got to do something different. No, no, no. When

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Speaker 1: we talk about competition, it was like only after you

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Speaker 1: when you've made the record, you know. So you're seeing

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Speaker 1: how well your record company to do with your music.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't really that I've got to write a better

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Speaker 1: song than Elton John. It wasn't anything like that. It

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Speaker 1: was just seeing whether or not people were hearing you.

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Speaker 1: And that was the competition, you know. So yeah, the charts,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like a track race. You know, you're

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Speaker 1: trying to get to the top. But it's it's not

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Speaker 1: that you want to necessarily downbeat the person in front

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Speaker 1: of you. You know, you just want your record companies

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Speaker 1: to make sure that everybody gets gets to see you win.

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Speaker 1: That's all. What did Ireland Records see that Decca didn't

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Speaker 1: see when you started with Island Records, Well, it was

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Speaker 1: really a very introspective new approach to lyric writing. I

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Speaker 1: was writing my autobiography, if you like, through my music

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Speaker 1: and you know, my lyrics. It was whatever I was learning,

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Speaker 1: whatever I was reading. You know, I was into metaphysical

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Speaker 1: books and trying to find out, you know, the eye

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Speaker 1: behind me or with in me. Buddhist books. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was reaching out then and so therefore anything that

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Speaker 1: I was discovering I kind of like wrote about it

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Speaker 1: very quickly. So if you listen to the wind. You know,

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Speaker 1: there you have a perfect example of my state of mind,

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Speaker 1: you know, waiting for the inspiration, which is the wind.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a symbol of the wind. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting that that word is very close to the wind.

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Speaker 1: Inspiration is like a wind. Did you know that's what

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Speaker 1: you were feeling at the time or did it just

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Speaker 1: sort of come out of you and then once you

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Speaker 1: wrote the song, you said, oh, this, this must be

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Speaker 1: what I'm feeling, This must be what I'm thinking. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know I was thinking. I was I was trying

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Speaker 1: to lay it down that was that was what I

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Speaker 1: was doing, and I think I did pretty well. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people really connected. I mean I wrote

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Speaker 1: most of these songs in a little bedsit you know

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Speaker 1: where my father gave me this little flat above the cafe,

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Speaker 1: my Dad's cafe in London, and it was just one

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Speaker 1: little beds and that was really the epitome of the

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Speaker 1: kind of the audience that I had because they were

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Speaker 1: all inspectives listening to me too, and there was a

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Speaker 1: kind of this community of introspective people looking at the

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Speaker 1: world and looking at what the challenges are out there,

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Speaker 1: and there's a whole lot of competition going on. But actually,

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Speaker 1: when I talked about competition, I didn't mean that that's

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Speaker 1: why I wrote songs. I mean, god, no, it was

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Speaker 1: just that that was just the business side. As I said,

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Speaker 1: it was really my internal journey that I was really

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Speaker 1: concentrating on, and that connected very very deeply. Was the

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Speaker 1: Win the first song you wrote for this album. I

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Speaker 1: note you wrote a lot of songs when you were recovering,

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Speaker 1: but because it's it's such an interesting song to begin

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Speaker 1: an album with. Teaser is a much rockier, harder edged

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Speaker 1: album than TFA the Tellerman, at least I think some

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Speaker 1: of the songs and you start on a very kind

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Speaker 1: of pensive note. Did that song come to you first

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Speaker 1: or did you just feel it introduced the album best.

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Speaker 1: I think it represented who I was better than any

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Speaker 1: other because the other songs were a little bit more arranged,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was more sounds, more drums, more everything.

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Speaker 1: This was really scaled down me, you know, peeled down

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Speaker 1: to the call. And that's why we loved it. And

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Speaker 1: that's and that's why I think people also appreciate when

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Speaker 1: they listen to the album, this is the beginning. This

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Speaker 1: is the beginning. Of this journey. And it's funny because

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Speaker 1: it's not even me playing guitar at the beginning. That's

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Speaker 1: actually Alan. He plays this lovely little arpeggio thing and

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Speaker 1: then I come in. But the words of that song

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Speaker 1: are so so profound, you know, I think just keep

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Speaker 1: reflecting on them, and they mean so much. When I

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Speaker 1: talk about I'll never make the same mistake, Well, that's

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Speaker 1: our problem, you know, as human beings were always making mistakes,

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Speaker 1: and but that's the other characteristic of human beings is

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Speaker 1: that we try to develop and get over them and

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Speaker 1: do something better. And you know, so that's it's great.

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Speaker 1: It's got so many aspects to that song. It also

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Speaker 1: introduces this the to the record, which is in some

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Speaker 1: of the sort of rockier songs as well of putting

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Speaker 1: the past behind Changes four, particularly Tuesday's Dead. It runs

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Speaker 1: throughout this album, this feeling that you've got to put

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Speaker 1: the past behind you. Is that something you felt strongly

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Speaker 1: at the time about your career or your life? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I was looking back at Decca, you know,

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Speaker 1: the old Decca days, and that was more like looking

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Speaker 1: looking back at Dickens, you know, the times of Dickens.

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Speaker 1: That's what it felt like to me, but the past.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at a song like Changes,

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Speaker 1: I knew there were a few other songs called Changes,

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Speaker 1: So that's that's why I called it Changes four. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know if there were three before that where there

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Speaker 1: were twenty, I don't know, but I call it Changes

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Speaker 1: four just to distinguish this's this one from what David

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Speaker 1: Bowie had one too. So therefore Changes. You know, we

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Speaker 1: were really we had high expectations and we were definitely

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Speaker 1: in the political mood. The generation, our generation was trying

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Speaker 1: to really change things around everything, to leave the past

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Speaker 1: and go forward. But you know, political barricades were not

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Speaker 1: easy to overcome. This album also has a strong gospel feel.

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Speaker 1: It is Morning is Broken, which is a hymn, not gospel.

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Speaker 1: Particularly growing up was what were your influences when you

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Speaker 1: were first starting to play the piano and the guitar.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I had all kinds of influences because I

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Speaker 1: lived in the center of London and so you can imagine,

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Speaker 1: you know, I had a theater across the road on

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Speaker 1: my doorstep. I went to school in Drury Lane, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean there were all the cinemas, all the clubs,

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Speaker 1: tin pan Alli my best friend. Actually his father had

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Speaker 1: a restaurant too, and he was just on Tin Pallet

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Speaker 1: that was about four hundred yards away, you know, so

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Speaker 1: it was all where I lived, soho it was just

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Speaker 1: a little bit further. Piccadilly was the other end of

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Speaker 1: my road. So because of that, I picked up all

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Speaker 1: the genres there were, you know, buzzing around. But Westside

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Speaker 1: story was it? You know that that really broke or

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Speaker 1: all the barriers for me as far as as I

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Speaker 1: could see as in music, it had everything. And then

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Speaker 1: came the Beatles, you know, and wow, and they were

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Speaker 1: getting sourced or their inspiration was also coming from this,

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Speaker 1: you know, from the state side. Black artists, you know,

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Speaker 1: a little little singles were coming across the water and

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Speaker 1: they were listening to them, and you were getting you know,

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Speaker 1: Muddy Waters and John Lee Hook and all these people,

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Speaker 1: so all that stuff. I was soaking it all up.

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Speaker 1: When you were writing these songs, How did there come?

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Speaker 1: Was it you and a guitar just finding a key?

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it was mostly like that. I mean I

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Speaker 1: had a new guitar. I mean, every new guitar has

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Speaker 1: its own you know, song within it. And that's another thing.

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Speaker 1: But that was a favorite guitar of mine, which was

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Speaker 1: black Everly Brothers, you know, Gibson, and I wrote most

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Speaker 1: of my songs on there. But then of course I

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Speaker 1: had a little Italian organ which sounded really crappy, you know,

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Speaker 1: but it gave me so many ideas. I just pressed

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Speaker 1: a button. It was another one. And of course when

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Speaker 1: the arp synthesizer came out, wow, that was another whole,

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Speaker 1: you know, kaleidoscope sound for me to play with. But

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Speaker 1: really I kind of jumped from guitar sometimes the piano

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Speaker 1: at a piano upstairs in the house, and you know,

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Speaker 1: my little organ, and that was it in my little

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Speaker 1: tape recording and I was off. You know, no obstacle

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Speaker 1: to me writing at all. You're a very muscular guitar

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Speaker 1: player and very rhythmic. Unlike a lot of folk music

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Speaker 1: of the day. You've got a really strong beat in

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Speaker 1: what you do, and the same thing on piano. Like

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Speaker 1: when I think of Miles from Nowhere, I hadn't realized

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Speaker 1: you'd played that piano part. It's a really great bluesy part.

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Speaker 1: Who were the players that influenced you? Because you've got

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Speaker 1: such an aggressive rhythmic sound on both instruments. I don't

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Speaker 1: really know. I mean that was you know, I suppose

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Speaker 1: Ray Charles, you know, if you listen his voice, I mean,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, that's that's the voice for the blues,

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Speaker 1: I mean, incredible. So and so I was influenced by him.

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Speaker 1: I was also influenced by Nina Simon, but I couldn't

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Speaker 1: play piano like her, you know, but she did play

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Speaker 1: wild piano though. Sometimes you listen to you know, Mississippi

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Speaker 1: Goddamn you know bang you know, she does it as well.

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Speaker 1: So in those kinds of songs. And then of course

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Speaker 1: you've got sad Lisa. You can you can go to

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Speaker 1: my classical side and you can see I'm sort of

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Speaker 1: very soft, very gentle, you know, on the piano as well.

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Speaker 1: So I took on different moods. But I with a

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Speaker 1: rock song, of course, you've got to bang it out.

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Speaker 1: That's that's why I feel. And were there any guitarists

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Speaker 1: that influenced you, particularly guitarists are I suppose, looking back

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Speaker 1: at the time, Peter Green, you know, oh well, I

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Speaker 1: mean that song, I think you can hear a little

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Speaker 1: bit of Lady Darbon feeling the way that I play

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Speaker 1: that you know that little on the guitar. I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure it was influenced by Peter Green when it came

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Speaker 1: to the groups. I mean, I thought Keith Richards was

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Speaker 1: a terrific guitar player. His riffs and he loved a riff.

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Speaker 1: You know. You go back to kind of Harley and

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Speaker 1: Wall for that kind of thing. Down down, down, dud down.

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Speaker 1: Were you the kind of kid who sat there with

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Speaker 1: the radio and figured out riffs as you heard them? No,

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Speaker 1: in fact, that was one of the real I would

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Speaker 1: say motivations for me to write songs that I could

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Speaker 1: not work out the chords and it was just too

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Speaker 1: tedious to even bother to you know, Oh no, he's changing,

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Speaker 1: Oh too quick? Oh that what's that word? Oh no,

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Speaker 1: I can't even hear it, you know. So I'd write

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Speaker 1: my own songs forget about learning anybody else's. We're taking

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Speaker 1: a quick break here, but we'll be right back with

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Speaker 1: more from Bruce Helen's conversation with yusef Kat Stephens. We're

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Speaker 1: back with more from the use of Kat Stephens. So

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Speaker 1: you set down to record this album, and I want

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Speaker 1: you to talk about two people who you'd worked with before.

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Speaker 1: Paul Samuel Smith. First of all, can you just talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about his influence on you, well, Paul.

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Speaker 1: You know, i'd actually seen him in the clubs, you know,

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Speaker 1: because when when I was, you know, getting into music,

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Speaker 1: I was going to the clubs and he was in

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Speaker 1: the Yardbirds. So I saw him at the Hundred Club,

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Speaker 1: which was just down the road from where I lived,

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Speaker 1: and I used to dance his music, you know, and

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Speaker 1: there was other groups there. The Animals used to come down.

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Speaker 1: Manfred Mann an awful lot, the who dropped into the market.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's all that going on, but he was

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Speaker 1: the baseball. I didn't really notice him, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: at that time. It just, you know, you felt it.

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Speaker 1: You felt the base didn't really know what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: But then, of course, when Chris Blackwell of Ireland Records

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Speaker 1: sort of discovered me, he kind of brought Paul on

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Speaker 1: board and I listened to an album he had made

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Speaker 1: with Renaissance as the kind of British sort of progressive

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Speaker 1: folk group, and wow, I loved it. It was so

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Speaker 1: clean and English, you know. I loved the ambience which

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Speaker 1: he created with that. It's like, you know, sometimes if

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Speaker 1: you hear the timbre of a guitar. It's would and

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Speaker 1: that's what he tried to capture. He tried to capture

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Speaker 1: the nature of the wood of the guitar that I

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Speaker 1: was playing, and that was extraordinary. And the other person

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Speaker 1: you started working with was Alan Davies. Yeah, so Alan,

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Speaker 1: I mean Alan was brought on board kind of like

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Speaker 1: as a replacement for someone who Paul actually wanted. It

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Speaker 1: was John Mark, but he was busy, so then he's

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Speaker 1: that he recommended Alan come along. Alan was kind of thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is like cut steam as he was

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Speaker 1: sort of this black velvet suit guy, and what's it

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Speaker 1: going to be? And then of course he listened to

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Speaker 1: the new songs and wow, is blown away and then

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Speaker 1: he became my perfect companion. All those little intricate gaps

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Speaker 1: that he used to fill and you know, and enhancement.

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Speaker 1: It was just incredible how it worked. And so we

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Speaker 1: we've been together ever since, ever since those early days

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Speaker 1: in Olympic where we first started recording Monamo and Jackin

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Speaker 1: was it that made you go so compatible? Well, he

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Speaker 1: was blond and I was dark. Here, I mean that's

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Speaker 1: basically you know, we just went together. It was a

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Speaker 1: great combination. Yin and Yang Sun and Moon. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you would do all the chords and the strumming, and

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Speaker 1: he would do the patterns. Yes, and what it came

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Speaker 1: to something like Wild World and you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: a few licks which I'm doing, which which he wasn't.

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Speaker 1: He was doing more strumming actually on Wild World. So

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Speaker 1: we kind of changed around here and there. But you know,

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Speaker 1: if you listen to Father and Son, you can hear

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Speaker 1: that beautiful response to my first guitar chords. You know,

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Speaker 1: down da da da and he goes da da da beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Would you just sit and play together to work out

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Speaker 1: those things? Is that something you did in studio or

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00:18:53,916 --> 00:18:56,596
Speaker 1: while you were writing? Oh? No, that was always done

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Speaker 1: in the studio. I'd come kind of with a ready

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Speaker 1: made well not all the time, they weren't all finished. Like,

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Speaker 1: for instance, the first recording of Wild World, I kind

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Speaker 1: of had oh, Darling, Darling, it's the world World. No,

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Speaker 1: that didn't work. Next day I changed it to oh

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Speaker 1: Baby Baby. But usually the songs were formed. You know,

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Speaker 1: they've got their character, and I was trying to teach

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Speaker 1: them some of these. Occasionally I'll do something on the

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Speaker 1: timing that would be slightly different, and that that was

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Speaker 1: the thing which stumped them, and so we'd have to

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Speaker 1: stop and start again until we got that right. But

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Speaker 1: usually it would be in the studio that we worked

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Speaker 1: this out. Yeah, one of the songs on the album

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00:19:33,156 --> 00:19:35,676
Speaker 1: is is in seven eight I think you have un

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Speaker 1: usual time signature sometimes. Yeah, that was the Greek in me,

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Speaker 1: you know, so my father was from Cyprus, so they

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Speaker 1: often do this. They do an eleven one too, you know,

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00:19:45,716 --> 00:19:50,316
Speaker 1: eleven eight time signature too, and sometimes they swap it around. Well,

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Speaker 1: actually Allen didn't play on that one, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: it was you know, Andreas Tumazi, you know, a friend

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00:19:58,356 --> 00:20:00,916
Speaker 1: I met, a buzuki player who, of course, you know,

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00:20:01,036 --> 00:20:04,196
Speaker 1: did that so naturally, you know, like in his sleep.

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00:20:04,436 --> 00:20:07,316
Speaker 1: Did you listen to Greek music growing up, Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we went to weddings and that's the new music

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Speaker 1: they had, you know, for sure. My brother also my

368
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Speaker 1: half brother my father's first marriage. His name was George

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Speaker 1: and he was a bazooki player and he actually played violin.

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Speaker 1: So I used to go and see him play at

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Speaker 1: the weddings. But you never played yourself the bazooki. No,

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00:20:26,676 --> 00:20:28,516
Speaker 1: it was very difficult to hold because it's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a bowl um and you know it's balancing that

374
00:20:31,836 --> 00:20:34,876
Speaker 1: thing is not easy. So guitar is much better, much easier.

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Speaker 1: When I was talking about your guitar playing and you

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Speaker 1: mentioned you had the Everly Brothers Gibson, it makes me

377
00:20:42,316 --> 00:20:45,996
Speaker 1: think your guitar playing is a little like the Everly Brothers. Yeah,

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00:20:46,036 --> 00:20:50,276
Speaker 1: you could say that. I mean also, yeah, you Eddie Cochran,

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00:20:50,356 --> 00:20:54,756
Speaker 1: you know, if you know d you know, I love

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00:20:54,836 --> 00:20:58,636
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, the riffs. M we're using full chords,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like he listened to UM,

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00:21:00,876 --> 00:21:03,116
Speaker 1: I wasn't electric, but you know it's the same kind

383
00:21:03,116 --> 00:21:07,676
Speaker 1: of thing that Kinks did. I love all that, all

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Speaker 1: those kind of h cordy riffs. Did you see the

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00:21:11,756 --> 00:21:15,036
Speaker 1: Kinks as well live? You saw so many great bands live, Yeah,

386
00:21:15,196 --> 00:21:17,316
Speaker 1: Kinks as well. Yeah, for sure they were. They were

387
00:21:17,476 --> 00:21:19,836
Speaker 1: doing the circuits as well. I have to ask you

388
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Speaker 1: what it was like to see the Kinks back then. Well,

389
00:21:22,156 --> 00:21:25,516
Speaker 1: they were very odd, you know, and but they were

390
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Speaker 1: more kind of R and B in the beginning. You

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Speaker 1: could hear that for sure. You know, they were listening

392
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Speaker 1: to all the songs that were coming over, you know,

393
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Speaker 1: from Stateside and the sort of Martown influence as well.

394
00:21:36,716 --> 00:21:40,836
Speaker 1: You could hear that Fortune Teller I Reckon was an

395
00:21:40,836 --> 00:21:43,876
Speaker 1: inspiration for You Really Got Me Too? You know so well,

396
00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:47,956
Speaker 1: all those kind of songs influenced them and they interpreted

397
00:21:47,996 --> 00:21:50,156
Speaker 1: it their way, sort of their British way, in a

398
00:21:50,196 --> 00:21:52,556
Speaker 1: British sound. I want to talk to you about a

399
00:21:52,556 --> 00:21:54,876
Speaker 1: couple of specific songs on the album. It's one of

400
00:21:54,876 --> 00:21:56,516
Speaker 1: these albums I grew up with, so I know it

401
00:21:56,876 --> 00:22:00,636
Speaker 1: so well. There's much more than for the Tellerman. There's

402
00:22:00,636 --> 00:22:03,396
Speaker 1: a couple of very direct love songs. If I laugh,

403
00:22:04,076 --> 00:22:07,156
Speaker 1: how can I tell you? They were much more kind

404
00:22:07,196 --> 00:22:10,196
Speaker 1: of sort of yearning and much more direct than other

405
00:22:10,236 --> 00:22:13,676
Speaker 1: stuff you've done. Tell me about those songs. Well, you've

406
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Speaker 1: got to find someone you know you can you can love.

407
00:22:17,236 --> 00:22:20,436
Speaker 1: That's that's the whole that's the whole joy of you know,

408
00:22:21,196 --> 00:22:24,396
Speaker 1: and the search is the thing. You know, when you

409
00:22:24,436 --> 00:22:27,796
Speaker 1: find someone, they'd never usually turn out exactly the way

410
00:22:27,876 --> 00:22:30,756
Speaker 1: you expected. So there's always that kind of disappointment because

411
00:22:30,796 --> 00:22:33,676
Speaker 1: the perfect person isn't there, you know, it's it's not

412
00:22:33,876 --> 00:22:38,236
Speaker 1: what we project from what we expect from others. And

413
00:22:38,276 --> 00:22:41,836
Speaker 1: so how can I tell you? Was really a song

414
00:22:41,996 --> 00:22:45,716
Speaker 1: about an invisible girl, you know someone who well, no,

415
00:22:45,836 --> 00:22:48,036
Speaker 1: I was going out with someone at the time, but

416
00:22:48,156 --> 00:22:50,156
Speaker 1: I use that as a kind of a sort of

417
00:22:50,236 --> 00:22:53,036
Speaker 1: jumping board if you like to to then write this

418
00:22:53,076 --> 00:22:58,556
Speaker 1: song about another girl which wasn't her. I suppose was

419
00:22:58,596 --> 00:23:01,236
Speaker 1: the other girl a real girl or just an imaginary girl?

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00:23:01,636 --> 00:23:05,916
Speaker 1: That would always be imaginery, always imaginer. Yeah, that's the thing,

421
00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:12,076
Speaker 1: no limits to my imagination. Tell me the story about

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00:23:12,116 --> 00:23:15,036
Speaker 1: the song moon Shadow, Well, Moonshadow is of course very

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00:23:15,076 --> 00:23:17,996
Speaker 1: special to me because while I was the city lad,

424
00:23:18,516 --> 00:23:21,876
Speaker 1: and therefore I was used to looking at the moon

425
00:23:22,156 --> 00:23:25,476
Speaker 1: from the street with lab lights, you know, with street lights,

426
00:23:25,476 --> 00:23:28,396
Speaker 1: and so therefore I never ever saw my shadow until

427
00:23:29,196 --> 00:23:31,916
Speaker 1: I took a holiday in Spain. This was just before

428
00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:35,716
Speaker 1: I was making the record, and lo and behold, I

429
00:23:35,756 --> 00:23:38,556
Speaker 1: looked down there, I am you know, it's me. It's

430
00:23:38,676 --> 00:23:41,036
Speaker 1: my shadow. I couldn't believe it, and I had a

431
00:23:41,036 --> 00:23:44,156
Speaker 1: few melodis, you may say, and I developed this one

432
00:23:44,196 --> 00:23:47,956
Speaker 1: particular song to suit the moment, and it was perfect.

433
00:23:48,036 --> 00:23:50,516
Speaker 1: It was just it was all in d and therefore

434
00:23:50,716 --> 00:23:53,156
Speaker 1: the moon Shadow was born. I think that's a funny

435
00:23:53,156 --> 00:23:57,316
Speaker 1: story because for me, Tifa the Tillerman is such a

436
00:23:57,356 --> 00:24:01,796
Speaker 1: pastoral album. It seems like an album of someone who

437
00:24:01,836 --> 00:24:06,356
Speaker 1: lives in the country, seems very about nature and boats.

438
00:24:06,956 --> 00:24:09,436
Speaker 1: And then when you said, well you were a city kid,

439
00:24:09,596 --> 00:24:11,156
Speaker 1: I mean I think most people would think you were

440
00:24:11,196 --> 00:24:14,396
Speaker 1: some kid from the country because because of that pastoral

441
00:24:14,476 --> 00:24:17,676
Speaker 1: feel as some of your music. Yeah, well that was

442
00:24:17,796 --> 00:24:21,556
Speaker 1: the imagination at work, you know. So so yeah, we

443
00:24:21,636 --> 00:24:24,036
Speaker 1: had patches of green, you know, which we would go to.

444
00:24:24,156 --> 00:24:26,996
Speaker 1: They're called parks in London and you take a bus

445
00:24:26,996 --> 00:24:28,756
Speaker 1: and you know, you have to go quite a way

446
00:24:28,796 --> 00:24:32,156
Speaker 1: to get there, get off and you're in the park.

447
00:24:32,356 --> 00:24:36,036
Speaker 1: But there was always this you know, dream of the

448
00:24:36,156 --> 00:24:39,476
Speaker 1: land of green. And so therefore I wrote where do

449
00:24:39,556 --> 00:24:42,676
Speaker 1: the Children Play? For instance, based on the fact that

450
00:24:42,796 --> 00:24:46,476
Speaker 1: you know, where I lived was all Cement and that

451
00:24:46,556 --> 00:24:48,756
Speaker 1: impacted me. Yeah, so it was it was more like

452
00:24:49,236 --> 00:24:53,236
Speaker 1: the ideal within my mind, within my sort of creative

453
00:24:53,316 --> 00:24:56,836
Speaker 1: songwriting mind, that that helped me see all these things

454
00:24:56,836 --> 00:25:00,316
Speaker 1: and paint them with my music, with my words. It's

455
00:25:00,436 --> 00:25:02,836
Speaker 1: like England, this green and pleasant land. I don't know.

456
00:25:02,876 --> 00:25:05,036
Speaker 1: If I know you went to Catholic school, you may

457
00:25:05,076 --> 00:25:08,396
Speaker 1: not have listened to Jerusalem when you that him when

458
00:25:08,396 --> 00:25:10,916
Speaker 1: you're at school I'm not sure if it's a Catholic

459
00:25:11,036 --> 00:25:13,796
Speaker 1: or a Protestant song. Now and now you're confusing me.

460
00:25:13,876 --> 00:25:17,396
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where that lies. But yes, you're right

461
00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:20,636
Speaker 1: by the way. William Blake he was born in Soho,

462
00:25:20,716 --> 00:25:22,916
Speaker 1: if you know, around the corner from the clubs where

463
00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:25,996
Speaker 1: I used to go no zab Rain. Yeah, William he

464
00:25:26,036 --> 00:25:27,956
Speaker 1: wrote the words, of course of that song. So he's

465
00:25:27,956 --> 00:25:30,756
Speaker 1: another city boy who just wrote about the country. Yeah.

466
00:25:30,756 --> 00:25:32,516
Speaker 1: Well look at what he wrote too, you know, talk

467
00:25:32,556 --> 00:25:36,036
Speaker 1: about the Satanic mills. He was talking about the New

468
00:25:36,236 --> 00:25:40,636
Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution, which was on the doorstep and which I

469
00:25:40,676 --> 00:25:43,916
Speaker 1: wrote about later when I wrote Matthew and Son, for instance,

470
00:25:44,276 --> 00:25:47,236
Speaker 1: Were you influenced by Blake when you were young as well?

471
00:25:47,916 --> 00:25:49,836
Speaker 1: I like Blake, but I think I was more influenced

472
00:25:49,836 --> 00:25:53,396
Speaker 1: by well. I loved, let's say, Van Gogh. He was

473
00:25:53,396 --> 00:25:56,836
Speaker 1: my favorite artist apart from the cartoons, because I did

474
00:25:56,876 --> 00:25:59,516
Speaker 1: actually spend more time looking at cartoons than I did

475
00:25:59,516 --> 00:26:02,356
Speaker 1: in the National Gallery or anything. But yeah, cartoons was

476
00:26:02,356 --> 00:26:04,516
Speaker 1: a much quicker way of expressing yourself and you know,

477
00:26:04,556 --> 00:26:07,196
Speaker 1: having a few laughs as well, because I used to

478
00:26:07,236 --> 00:26:10,516
Speaker 1: like cartoons. Did you start drawing around the same time

479
00:26:10,516 --> 00:26:14,476
Speaker 1: you started playing music, No, no, no. I began with

480
00:26:14,516 --> 00:26:17,276
Speaker 1: the pen and that was actually going to be my few.

481
00:26:17,316 --> 00:26:19,036
Speaker 1: I really felt I was going to be an artist

482
00:26:19,116 --> 00:26:22,236
Speaker 1: or a cartoonist or whatever, you know. That was my ambition.

483
00:26:22,396 --> 00:26:24,676
Speaker 1: And then along came all this music, you know, the

484
00:26:24,716 --> 00:26:28,236
Speaker 1: Beatles changed everything. And then I realized a lot of

485
00:26:28,716 --> 00:26:33,396
Speaker 1: artists actually didn't die very rich. And the only you know,

486
00:26:33,436 --> 00:26:36,356
Speaker 1: the painting started selling for millions or whatever it was

487
00:26:36,596 --> 00:26:39,196
Speaker 1: when they died. I thought, well, that's no good, because

488
00:26:39,476 --> 00:26:43,636
Speaker 1: here's the Beatles earning money right now, you know, you know,

489
00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:46,916
Speaker 1: so there's a clear road to where I wanted to

490
00:26:46,956 --> 00:26:50,236
Speaker 1: go at that time. And tell me about the song

491
00:26:50,316 --> 00:26:54,596
Speaker 1: Morning has Broken, Morning is Broken is a beautiful him,

492
00:26:54,676 --> 00:26:57,996
Speaker 1: which I just happened to fall upon. I was looking

493
00:26:58,036 --> 00:27:00,516
Speaker 1: for inspiration, and I was in a bookshop and I

494
00:27:00,556 --> 00:27:04,156
Speaker 1: aided up in the religious department, and I fiddled around

495
00:27:04,196 --> 00:27:06,356
Speaker 1: there and I found this hymn book, you know, and

496
00:27:06,396 --> 00:27:09,476
Speaker 1: I m there, I go, I got some nice interesting words,

497
00:27:09,716 --> 00:27:12,716
Speaker 1: took it back and I couldn't really read music, but

498
00:27:12,836 --> 00:27:20,236
Speaker 1: I slowly I deciphered you know, doo doo doom doom doom. Wow,

499
00:27:20,396 --> 00:27:22,836
Speaker 1: this is great, you know, And then I put my

500
00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:25,196
Speaker 1: own cause to it because they didn't have the cords

501
00:27:25,196 --> 00:27:27,556
Speaker 1: and there was just a top line and then and

502
00:27:27,556 --> 00:27:30,996
Speaker 1: that that that became you know, part of My My Cannon,

503
00:27:31,396 --> 00:27:34,036
Speaker 1: which people think, well I wrote it. Of course I didn't.

504
00:27:34,076 --> 00:27:37,516
Speaker 1: I just arranged it. And I've called a Rick Wakeman

505
00:27:37,876 --> 00:27:41,436
Speaker 1: happened to be in Morgan Studios where we were recording Teaser,

506
00:27:41,676 --> 00:27:43,916
Speaker 1: and he dropped in and we asked him to just

507
00:27:44,036 --> 00:27:46,236
Speaker 1: you know, instead of it being just only acoustic, I

508
00:27:46,276 --> 00:27:50,196
Speaker 1: wanted something really flowery and magnificent, you know, and he

509
00:27:50,236 --> 00:27:52,836
Speaker 1: did it. He did it so beautifully. We couldn't put

510
00:27:52,836 --> 00:27:54,996
Speaker 1: his name on the album because it was like it

511
00:27:55,036 --> 00:27:57,516
Speaker 1: was taboo in those days to do that. Oh, because

512
00:27:57,516 --> 00:28:00,036
Speaker 1: he was on another label. He was on Warner Brothers.

513
00:28:00,116 --> 00:28:03,436
Speaker 1: The Enemy, the Enemy. You say, you're not competitive, but boy,

514
00:28:03,476 --> 00:28:06,356
Speaker 1: he didn't like Warner Brothers. They didn't offer me enough money,

515
00:28:06,396 --> 00:28:12,436
Speaker 1: to be honest, Well, shame on them. Did you work

516
00:28:12,436 --> 00:28:14,676
Speaker 1: out the arrangement with him? Because it's got a beautiful

517
00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:16,596
Speaker 1: little and I don't know if it's in the original,

518
00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:20,396
Speaker 1: but it's got a beautiful little modulation that song. It

519
00:28:20,516 --> 00:28:23,476
Speaker 1: starts in D and you go through the introduction and

520
00:28:23,516 --> 00:28:25,276
Speaker 1: then you end up in ce you go back to

521
00:28:25,396 --> 00:28:27,676
Speaker 1: D for I think one of the verses or maybe

522
00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:30,916
Speaker 1: a chorus, but it's quite sophisticated, the way it moves

523
00:28:30,956 --> 00:28:33,876
Speaker 1: back and forth between the keys. Was that something you

524
00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:37,076
Speaker 1: worked out yourself? Did you work that out with him? Yeah?

525
00:28:37,116 --> 00:28:39,276
Speaker 1: I kind of told him I want to change key here,

526
00:28:39,756 --> 00:28:42,916
Speaker 1: and because I didn't want it to go like monotonously

527
00:28:43,636 --> 00:28:46,636
Speaker 1: through four kind of verses or four choruses or whatever

528
00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:49,476
Speaker 1: to the end. I wanted something to change so that

529
00:28:49,836 --> 00:28:52,516
Speaker 1: therefore the third one kind of moved up, and he

530
00:28:52,556 --> 00:28:55,636
Speaker 1: was able to do that. On my guitar. I had

531
00:28:55,716 --> 00:28:58,196
Speaker 1: more difficult time to do things a little bit higher,

532
00:28:58,236 --> 00:29:01,116
Speaker 1: so he managed it. Of course he was a wizard

533
00:29:01,156 --> 00:29:04,276
Speaker 1: on that. It's become a sort of modern hymn. Were

534
00:29:04,316 --> 00:29:07,556
Speaker 1: you trying to get that kind of him feeling for it?

535
00:29:09,116 --> 00:29:11,236
Speaker 1: And think I didn't even think of it as a hymn.

536
00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:13,396
Speaker 1: I just thought of it as a great song. And

537
00:29:13,756 --> 00:29:16,476
Speaker 1: the words were so universal, they were not tied to

538
00:29:16,516 --> 00:29:20,836
Speaker 1: any dogma or in particular denomination, and so therefore it

539
00:29:20,916 --> 00:29:24,276
Speaker 1: was free. It was just beautiful, and I loved it.

540
00:29:24,756 --> 00:29:28,276
Speaker 1: But it was spiritual, and that's what I wanted. I

541
00:29:28,276 --> 00:29:31,916
Speaker 1: wanted that spiritual side. I actually pronounced the words wrong

542
00:29:31,996 --> 00:29:33,956
Speaker 1: in there, because I didn't know that it should have

543
00:29:33,996 --> 00:29:38,636
Speaker 1: been God's recreation of the New Day. Instead I sang

544
00:29:38,796 --> 00:29:43,436
Speaker 1: God's recreation and complaints some as old grannies. You know

545
00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:49,396
Speaker 1: here God say that it's anyway my fault. No, you're

546
00:29:49,516 --> 00:29:52,476
Speaker 1: you're okay, because everybody just says the English they say everything,

547
00:29:53,676 --> 00:29:57,396
Speaker 1: you're okay. I'm just wondering because it came in seventy one,

548
00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:01,516
Speaker 1: which is just after Let it Be the song Bridge

549
00:30:01,516 --> 00:30:05,036
Speaker 1: over Troubled Water. Suddenly there was a lot of gospel feel,

550
00:30:05,036 --> 00:30:08,556
Speaker 1: a lot of hymns in the top forty mm. I

551
00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:11,916
Speaker 1: never thought what about that until now when you've said it,

552
00:30:11,996 --> 00:30:15,556
Speaker 1: and yeah, you're right, it's sort of fitted into a

553
00:30:16,796 --> 00:30:22,036
Speaker 1: kind of inspirational moment of spirituality, I suppose at that point, Yeah,

554
00:30:22,156 --> 00:30:24,636
Speaker 1: what was the state of your own spiritual journey? At

555
00:30:24,676 --> 00:30:30,636
Speaker 1: this point? It was very jagged and nothing really quite

556
00:30:30,716 --> 00:30:34,036
Speaker 1: I mean, if I liked something, it wouldn't quite go

557
00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,956
Speaker 1: to the end, because there'd be something I'd find, a

558
00:30:38,076 --> 00:30:42,356
Speaker 1: problem which I couldn't rationalize or I couldn't absorb, and

559
00:30:42,436 --> 00:30:45,156
Speaker 1: so therefore I went to the next thing I was

560
00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:48,396
Speaker 1: looking for. You know, you make your own. At that point,

561
00:30:49,036 --> 00:30:52,356
Speaker 1: I made my own religion up and it was basically music,

562
00:30:52,676 --> 00:30:56,316
Speaker 1: you know. It was just me writing best songs, trying

563
00:30:56,316 --> 00:30:59,276
Speaker 1: to not to hurt anybody. And I suppose inspired by

564
00:30:59,356 --> 00:31:01,956
Speaker 1: Christ as well, because I mean I had seven years

565
00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:04,756
Speaker 1: at Catholic school. I mean that really has to imprint,

566
00:31:05,116 --> 00:31:07,836
Speaker 1: you know, something on you. But then the church was

567
00:31:07,916 --> 00:31:11,996
Speaker 1: something completely different I imagine Christ to be. So I

568
00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:18,076
Speaker 1: was wandering, you know, through the woods of religiosity or spiritualism,

569
00:31:18,116 --> 00:31:22,236
Speaker 1: and not finding yet my home. Were a good Catholic

570
00:31:22,636 --> 00:31:27,956
Speaker 1: Roman Catholic student, No, absolutely, In fact, I wasn't even Catholic.

571
00:31:28,156 --> 00:31:29,836
Speaker 1: They stuck me in that school because it was the

572
00:31:29,836 --> 00:31:32,956
Speaker 1: best school around. But I was Greek Orthodox, so I couldn't.

573
00:31:32,996 --> 00:31:35,716
Speaker 1: I couldn't even do things, you know. I was always wondering,

574
00:31:35,756 --> 00:31:38,076
Speaker 1: what's that little white thing that they brought on their tongue.

575
00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:40,276
Speaker 1: I always wanted to taste one of those things, but

576
00:31:40,356 --> 00:31:42,996
Speaker 1: I couldn't because I was Greek Orthodox. We'll be right

577
00:31:43,036 --> 00:31:45,956
Speaker 1: back after a quick break with more from Yusef Kat Stephens.

578
00:31:50,156 --> 00:31:52,636
Speaker 1: We're back with the rest of Bruce Helen's conversation with

579
00:31:52,716 --> 00:31:55,956
Speaker 1: Yusef Kat Stephens. I mean lots of songs on this

580
00:31:55,996 --> 00:31:59,516
Speaker 1: album have lasted, but peace Train, you're very well known for.

581
00:32:00,116 --> 00:32:02,916
Speaker 1: Tell me about the writing of peace Train. Well, peace

582
00:32:02,956 --> 00:32:04,476
Speaker 1: Train was a ref It was kind of It's got

583
00:32:04,516 --> 00:32:06,756
Speaker 1: a bit of a Greek feel to it. If you

584
00:32:06,876 --> 00:32:11,516
Speaker 1: listen to it, you get strains of this Greek influence

585
00:32:11,556 --> 00:32:13,956
Speaker 1: in my music. If you listen to Road to find Out,

586
00:32:13,956 --> 00:32:16,756
Speaker 1: you'll actually hear it in the voices a bit there

587
00:32:16,836 --> 00:32:19,196
Speaker 1: that I do. And peace Train was the same thing.

588
00:32:19,196 --> 00:32:21,196
Speaker 1: It was like this toothing. It was like a first

589
00:32:21,236 --> 00:32:23,276
Speaker 1: and a third, you know, And you can hear the

590
00:32:23,396 --> 00:32:25,556
Speaker 1: on Lady Dub on Wheel two, I'm doing kind of

591
00:32:25,596 --> 00:32:30,316
Speaker 1: like the same thing. And I really do remember being

592
00:32:30,356 --> 00:32:33,236
Speaker 1: on a train going out north to Manchester or wherever

593
00:32:33,796 --> 00:32:36,836
Speaker 1: on a tour, you know, when I was just launching

594
00:32:37,236 --> 00:32:40,036
Speaker 1: monomone Jack and and I'm pretty sure that that's where

595
00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:42,196
Speaker 1: I got the kind of the field for this. I

596
00:32:42,316 --> 00:32:44,676
Speaker 1: probably pulled my guitar out and did it there and

597
00:32:44,716 --> 00:32:46,596
Speaker 1: then and then went, oh this is good, and then

598
00:32:47,116 --> 00:32:49,476
Speaker 1: I never forgot it, you know, then I just finished it.

599
00:32:50,076 --> 00:32:52,556
Speaker 1: But however, it was one of the hardest songs to

600
00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:55,756
Speaker 1: chase in the studio, and so therefore I'd already written

601
00:32:55,756 --> 00:32:58,196
Speaker 1: it by the time I recorded T for the Tillerman,

602
00:32:58,436 --> 00:33:01,556
Speaker 1: and we recorded Peace Train for TIF for the Tillerman,

603
00:33:01,636 --> 00:33:03,876
Speaker 1: but it just never made it because I was not

604
00:33:03,956 --> 00:33:07,316
Speaker 1: satisfied with the energy because I was singing it live

605
00:33:07,436 --> 00:33:11,476
Speaker 1: and it was making the audio it's just explode. But

606
00:33:11,516 --> 00:33:14,036
Speaker 1: I never achieved that in the studio. So therefore we

607
00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,476
Speaker 1: had to add drums and the right bass fit, and

608
00:33:16,636 --> 00:33:19,756
Speaker 1: I never got it until finally when Teaser came around,

609
00:33:20,116 --> 00:33:23,356
Speaker 1: we did it and we finally got that bass part

610
00:33:23,396 --> 00:33:26,316
Speaker 1: in Ireland Records in Paula Bell Road, that's where we

611
00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:29,276
Speaker 1: did it. And it was the bass that made that song. Yeah,

612
00:33:29,396 --> 00:33:33,756
Speaker 1: the bass riff is really really crucial. It was a pick,

613
00:33:34,116 --> 00:33:36,316
Speaker 1: you know. And the drums as well. Now I've got

614
00:33:36,316 --> 00:33:40,156
Speaker 1: to say that the drums were so tasteful because they

615
00:33:40,396 --> 00:33:43,516
Speaker 1: weren't there all the time, and they just highlighted the

616
00:33:43,636 --> 00:33:46,916
Speaker 1: rhythm of the guitars. And so I think that that's

617
00:33:46,956 --> 00:33:50,316
Speaker 1: what made it. After you converted to Islam, which was

618
00:33:50,316 --> 00:33:54,716
Speaker 1: I think seventy seven, you stopped playing some of your

619
00:33:54,716 --> 00:33:57,916
Speaker 1: old songs for a time. Do you remember what was

620
00:33:57,916 --> 00:34:01,596
Speaker 1: it like to come back and start playing these songs

621
00:34:01,676 --> 00:34:04,876
Speaker 1: from from Teaser? In the fire cat again. It's like

622
00:34:04,996 --> 00:34:07,916
Speaker 1: it's yours and you can make it, you can update

623
00:34:07,996 --> 00:34:09,516
Speaker 1: it and the way you want, you can sing it

624
00:34:09,596 --> 00:34:11,996
Speaker 1: the way you feel. But actually it was still stood

625
00:34:11,996 --> 00:34:14,196
Speaker 1: the test of time. I mean, most of those words

626
00:34:14,676 --> 00:34:19,916
Speaker 1: are still so relative to our times and circumstances today. Change,

627
00:34:19,996 --> 00:34:23,396
Speaker 1: you know, come on, we do need change every time

628
00:34:23,436 --> 00:34:27,796
Speaker 1: a political you know, election comes along. We are dying

629
00:34:27,956 --> 00:34:30,596
Speaker 1: to see this change. And then it falls back into

630
00:34:30,636 --> 00:34:33,116
Speaker 1: the same or kind of groove. But anyway, you know,

631
00:34:33,196 --> 00:34:36,236
Speaker 1: So then talk about the other songs. That peace Train

632
00:34:36,676 --> 00:34:39,436
Speaker 1: still hasn't arrived. Maybe it hasn't even left the station.

633
00:34:39,516 --> 00:34:41,876
Speaker 1: I don't know. But in fact, I call one of

634
00:34:41,916 --> 00:34:44,436
Speaker 1: my tours when I first came back again, I called

635
00:34:44,436 --> 00:34:47,636
Speaker 1: it peace Train late again, you know, and I had

636
00:34:47,636 --> 00:34:49,916
Speaker 1: a little station you know where the train of course

637
00:34:49,996 --> 00:34:54,276
Speaker 1: never arrived. It's such a personal album though about you

638
00:34:54,436 --> 00:34:57,636
Speaker 1: questioning things. What was it like to come back to that.

639
00:34:57,756 --> 00:35:00,916
Speaker 1: Do you put yourself in the mindset that you were

640
00:35:00,996 --> 00:35:04,516
Speaker 1: back then or do the years allow you to sing

641
00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:06,396
Speaker 1: it in a different way or think about them in

642
00:35:06,436 --> 00:35:10,196
Speaker 1: a different way. Well, because they're poetic, Oh they don't really,

643
00:35:10,396 --> 00:35:14,076
Speaker 1: they're not grounded, you know. You can't say it's exactly

644
00:35:14,116 --> 00:35:17,636
Speaker 1: it means exactly this political point in time. It doesn't.

645
00:35:17,956 --> 00:35:21,596
Speaker 1: It's generic but profound, and so therefore it lasts, and

646
00:35:21,636 --> 00:35:24,076
Speaker 1: you can interpret it in so many different ways that

647
00:35:24,116 --> 00:35:26,156
Speaker 1: you know, the way that you want to. Things like

648
00:35:26,276 --> 00:35:28,716
Speaker 1: Tuesday's Dead still a bit of a puzzle. I'm thinking,

649
00:35:28,796 --> 00:35:32,436
Speaker 1: why did I say Tuesday is dead? You know? I

650
00:35:32,476 --> 00:35:36,236
Speaker 1: don't know, because Monday's a bore. I don't know. So

651
00:35:36,356 --> 00:35:39,436
Speaker 1: there are still puzzles within those songs to work out.

652
00:35:39,756 --> 00:35:42,396
Speaker 1: Are there some songs from this album that you just

653
00:35:42,436 --> 00:35:44,956
Speaker 1: sing in a different way, in a different spirit. Now,

654
00:35:45,916 --> 00:35:48,476
Speaker 1: if you listen to the new Box that you'll hear

655
00:35:48,476 --> 00:35:52,236
Speaker 1: me doing Bitter Blue in a totally different tone. I've

656
00:35:52,276 --> 00:35:54,716
Speaker 1: got very excited about singing that song again, but I

657
00:35:54,756 --> 00:35:57,236
Speaker 1: couldn't do it with the same gusto you know that

658
00:35:57,276 --> 00:36:00,556
Speaker 1: I did before and this so it's much darker. Why

659
00:36:00,636 --> 00:36:04,116
Speaker 1: is that? Because the first version is a pretty it's

660
00:36:04,116 --> 00:36:06,556
Speaker 1: a very kind of rocking song, but it's a slightly

661
00:36:06,596 --> 00:36:09,676
Speaker 1: desperate song. How did you rethink it? Well? I was

662
00:36:09,676 --> 00:36:12,516
Speaker 1: a little bit inspired when I heard Green Day, and

663
00:36:12,556 --> 00:36:16,276
Speaker 1: I heard Green Day sing a song called Know the Enemy,

664
00:36:16,596 --> 00:36:19,596
Speaker 1: and I thought, hang on that sounds an awful lot

665
00:36:19,636 --> 00:36:23,236
Speaker 1: like a bit of blue and I thought, hmmm, I

666
00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:26,676
Speaker 1: can do the same, And I thought I started developing

667
00:36:26,716 --> 00:36:28,956
Speaker 1: a new approach to the song, and it was a

668
00:36:29,036 --> 00:36:33,076
Speaker 1: bit darker, slower. Of course I wasn't Green Day, but

669
00:36:33,076 --> 00:36:34,916
Speaker 1: but you know, I thought, well, this is great. It's flexible.

670
00:36:34,996 --> 00:36:37,276
Speaker 1: It's flexible, and that that's the thing about my songs,

671
00:36:37,316 --> 00:36:39,356
Speaker 1: actually a lot of them. If you if you try

672
00:36:39,396 --> 00:36:42,276
Speaker 1: them in various ways, they work. They still work. So

673
00:36:42,316 --> 00:36:44,356
Speaker 1: when you heard the Green Day song, you either picked

674
00:36:44,436 --> 00:36:46,996
Speaker 1: up a guitar or picked up a phone and called

675
00:36:47,036 --> 00:36:49,716
Speaker 1: your lawyer to see if no. I thought, let them

676
00:36:50,196 --> 00:36:52,356
Speaker 1: let them off this one, let them off this one.

677
00:36:52,476 --> 00:36:55,276
Speaker 1: You didn't let off Coldplay? I know, but let them off? Yeah,

678
00:36:55,356 --> 00:36:57,836
Speaker 1: cold Play? Well, now hang on Coldplay. I let off

679
00:36:57,876 --> 00:37:00,596
Speaker 1: as well. There was too many people claiming that they

680
00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:04,036
Speaker 1: wrote that that song, so, but I was definitely there first.

681
00:37:04,276 --> 00:37:06,756
Speaker 1: I would say, I think so with foreign a suite.

682
00:37:06,956 --> 00:37:11,236
Speaker 1: But anyway, certain people I nab. I can't remember who

683
00:37:11,276 --> 00:37:13,996
Speaker 1: they were. Oh, I think it was Flaming Lips, that

684
00:37:14,076 --> 00:37:16,556
Speaker 1: was it, one of them. Well good for you. Yeah,

685
00:37:16,556 --> 00:37:20,156
Speaker 1: they recorded a you know, a song called fight Test

686
00:37:20,716 --> 00:37:23,876
Speaker 1: and it really sounded like father and son. Yeah, I

687
00:37:23,956 --> 00:37:27,436
Speaker 1: couldn't let it go. Are you still rating? Yeah? Well

688
00:37:27,556 --> 00:37:30,596
Speaker 1: I wrote a song maybe about two weeks ago, you know,

689
00:37:30,716 --> 00:37:33,116
Speaker 1: and I recorded it in my studio. I'm the only

690
00:37:33,116 --> 00:37:36,676
Speaker 1: one who's basically well, my family have heard it, but yeah, yeah,

691
00:37:36,676 --> 00:37:39,956
Speaker 1: I'm still writing, yeah for sure. Is it still the

692
00:37:39,996 --> 00:37:42,156
Speaker 1: same way the inspiration hits you or is it just

693
00:37:42,676 --> 00:37:46,916
Speaker 1: you niddling with a guitar and something emerges? M well,

694
00:37:46,956 --> 00:37:50,676
Speaker 1: this one is piano actually, So whenever I pick up

695
00:37:50,676 --> 00:37:53,116
Speaker 1: a guitar, I always develops into some kind of new

696
00:37:53,316 --> 00:37:55,956
Speaker 1: riff or new song or new chords. I can't just

697
00:37:56,076 --> 00:37:59,196
Speaker 1: play old stuff. Although when I go touring, of course

698
00:37:59,196 --> 00:38:01,116
Speaker 1: I know that people want to hear that song, so

699
00:38:01,356 --> 00:38:04,516
Speaker 1: I do that. But when it comes to writing, I mean,

700
00:38:04,556 --> 00:38:07,676
Speaker 1: I have a whole album of songs now ready to

701
00:38:08,196 --> 00:38:10,756
Speaker 1: be released, but because of the teeth of the till

702
00:38:10,796 --> 00:38:13,356
Speaker 1: Amound fiftieth, I kind of we delayed it. So we've

703
00:38:13,356 --> 00:38:16,356
Speaker 1: got another blacket coming out next year. Okay. So people

704
00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:19,156
Speaker 1: who are listening to this and have such fine memories

705
00:38:19,516 --> 00:38:22,276
Speaker 1: of Teaser in the fire Cat I'm one of them.

706
00:38:22,476 --> 00:38:25,396
Speaker 1: Tell me how the new music relates to this or

707
00:38:25,436 --> 00:38:27,796
Speaker 1: does it relate to it. I think it relates to

708
00:38:27,876 --> 00:38:30,756
Speaker 1: the spirit, to the to the soul, you know, because

709
00:38:30,796 --> 00:38:33,156
Speaker 1: I think another word for my music is actually soul

710
00:38:33,276 --> 00:38:35,596
Speaker 1: music is not. I mean, I don't think soul just

711
00:38:35,796 --> 00:38:40,076
Speaker 1: is can be restricted to something with rhythm or you know,

712
00:38:40,276 --> 00:38:43,396
Speaker 1: or to the black communities. It's it's soul is soul

713
00:38:43,836 --> 00:38:47,276
Speaker 1: and uh. And the moment you express yourself deeply, you

714
00:38:47,316 --> 00:38:49,916
Speaker 1: know that that's when it hits and that's when people

715
00:38:49,956 --> 00:38:52,956
Speaker 1: get it. So I think it's it's still hitting those

716
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:58,716
Speaker 1: kind of those those areas of emotion and spirituality and consciousness. Yeah,

717
00:38:58,756 --> 00:39:01,236
Speaker 1: I still see that. Well, I should ask about Harold

718
00:39:01,356 --> 00:39:05,076
Speaker 1: Mode because the original Harold Mode it was not a

719
00:39:05,076 --> 00:39:07,556
Speaker 1: great experience for you, Is that right? You didn't like

720
00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:11,436
Speaker 1: the versions that howshould be used in his film. I

721
00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:13,476
Speaker 1: loved most of it, but it was just that these

722
00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:16,756
Speaker 1: two new songs which I sort of recorded very roughly

723
00:39:17,036 --> 00:39:20,196
Speaker 1: in Wally Hyde just down the road in San Francisco

724
00:39:20,236 --> 00:39:22,196
Speaker 1: when he was doing the filming there. I mean, they

725
00:39:22,196 --> 00:39:24,236
Speaker 1: were never meant to go in the film like that.

726
00:39:24,316 --> 00:39:26,476
Speaker 1: I was always meant to do it properly, you know,

727
00:39:26,996 --> 00:39:30,796
Speaker 1: with musicians or whatever beside me. But it was me

728
00:39:30,876 --> 00:39:33,036
Speaker 1: doing all the little bits and pieces, but it ended

729
00:39:33,116 --> 00:39:35,956
Speaker 1: up that he stuck that in the film and now

730
00:39:35,996 --> 00:39:39,236
Speaker 1: it's it's there, like you know, it's history. But actually

731
00:39:39,316 --> 00:39:41,236
Speaker 1: I love it now because it is so rough, it's

732
00:39:41,276 --> 00:39:44,556
Speaker 1: so raw, and it was so fresh and spontaneous. You

733
00:39:44,956 --> 00:39:50,196
Speaker 1: used to talk so much about music being wedded to visuals.

734
00:39:50,916 --> 00:39:53,556
Speaker 1: You did your own illustrations on Tifa the Tillerman and

735
00:39:53,676 --> 00:39:57,556
Speaker 1: on Teasering the Firect. The New Records has a sort

736
00:39:57,596 --> 00:40:00,156
Speaker 1: of full book of Teasering the Firect with the entire

737
00:40:00,236 --> 00:40:03,156
Speaker 1: story chaster do with the Moon, of course, what was

738
00:40:03,196 --> 00:40:07,996
Speaker 1: it like seeing your music so tightly associated with this

739
00:40:08,156 --> 00:40:10,996
Speaker 1: very particular story worry with Harold and mind, Well, it's

740
00:40:10,996 --> 00:40:13,916
Speaker 1: always difficult in a way because you know, your vision

741
00:40:14,116 --> 00:40:16,956
Speaker 1: of the song can never be repeated, and it's in

742
00:40:17,036 --> 00:40:20,316
Speaker 1: your head, it's in your mind. But the genre that

743
00:40:20,356 --> 00:40:24,316
Speaker 1: he created with that film, and and this the message

744
00:40:24,356 --> 00:40:29,316
Speaker 1: of the film, just corresponded perfectly with my music. I mean, trouble.

745
00:40:29,516 --> 00:40:32,876
Speaker 1: You know, at that moment when Maud is being carted

746
00:40:32,916 --> 00:40:36,716
Speaker 1: into the hospital, she's taken, she's taken an overdose. I mean,

747
00:40:37,116 --> 00:40:39,916
Speaker 1: you couldn't get anything more perfect. So he just did it.

748
00:40:39,996 --> 00:40:42,556
Speaker 1: He he just I mean he was high most of

749
00:40:42,596 --> 00:40:44,476
Speaker 1: the time. Maybe that's how he found a little key

750
00:40:45,076 --> 00:40:48,676
Speaker 1: opened the door to my I I wasn't high when

751
00:40:48,676 --> 00:40:51,476
Speaker 1: I said when I when I have puffed occasionally, I

752
00:40:51,476 --> 00:40:53,716
Speaker 1: couldn't write anything. It was just well, if I did,

753
00:40:53,756 --> 00:40:56,436
Speaker 1: it would never sound very good afterwards. That's all. You're

754
00:40:56,716 --> 00:41:00,316
Speaker 1: a pretty clean living guy, even before you're a conversion. Well,

755
00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:02,836
Speaker 1: that's because I learned my lesson in the early career.

756
00:41:02,916 --> 00:41:04,596
Speaker 1: While I got TB and I said, how hold on,

757
00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:06,636
Speaker 1: I want to hold onto my body a little bit longer,

758
00:41:06,916 --> 00:41:08,476
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to drop off this planet

759
00:41:08,516 --> 00:41:11,316
Speaker 1: so early. Now I've watched some old interviews with you.

760
00:41:11,476 --> 00:41:15,156
Speaker 1: You were still smoking like a chimney back in the seventies. Yeah,

761
00:41:15,276 --> 00:41:19,876
Speaker 1: I was, that's true, and I finally gave that up. Actually,

762
00:41:20,236 --> 00:41:22,156
Speaker 1: when I became a Muslim, it wasn't as if it

763
00:41:22,276 --> 00:41:25,356
Speaker 1: was forbidden. But I'll tell you. The story was that

764
00:41:25,436 --> 00:41:28,236
Speaker 1: I was actually in a cinema and I was puffing away,

765
00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:31,676
Speaker 1: and then this woman next to me, she pulls the

766
00:41:31,756 --> 00:41:34,996
Speaker 1: most horrible face and looking at me like I'm filth.

767
00:41:35,636 --> 00:41:39,916
Speaker 1: I'll go, oh my god. If my smoking, you know,

768
00:41:40,036 --> 00:41:43,756
Speaker 1: affects others to that degree, I'm going to give it up,

769
00:41:43,796 --> 00:41:46,436
Speaker 1: and actually I did. I I was getting used to

770
00:41:46,436 --> 00:41:48,876
Speaker 1: cutting down anyway, but that was the last straw. I said, no,

771
00:41:49,116 --> 00:41:51,636
Speaker 1: that's it. I don't need this stuff anymore. You see,

772
00:41:51,716 --> 00:41:54,156
Speaker 1: that's very English. And if someone gave a bad look

773
00:41:54,196 --> 00:41:58,356
Speaker 1: at an American smoking, they'd light the whole path. This

774
00:41:58,636 --> 00:42:01,436
Speaker 1: was I'm not sure if Tea or Teaser is your

775
00:42:01,476 --> 00:42:05,796
Speaker 1: best selling album, because you continue to experiment through the seventies.

776
00:42:05,876 --> 00:42:09,596
Speaker 1: You did some really early stuff with synthesizers, you did

777
00:42:09,716 --> 00:42:12,116
Speaker 1: full bands on some of your like a full R

778
00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:15,516
Speaker 1: and B treatment, You did some great, great albums, and

779
00:42:15,636 --> 00:42:18,476
Speaker 1: you continue to do great music. What was it about

780
00:42:18,796 --> 00:42:23,076
Speaker 1: these albums you think that just captured people so strongly.

781
00:42:23,836 --> 00:42:27,196
Speaker 1: I think it was the soul, which was, you know,

782
00:42:27,316 --> 00:42:30,556
Speaker 1: kind of shining, and I think it was like a

783
00:42:31,796 --> 00:42:35,196
Speaker 1: very inspired and you know, when you hear inspired music,

784
00:42:35,236 --> 00:42:37,476
Speaker 1: you just can't do anything but listen to it and

785
00:42:38,196 --> 00:42:41,556
Speaker 1: become enraptured by it. And that's what happened. And I

786
00:42:41,756 --> 00:42:45,676
Speaker 1: was just as much enraptured by my music as anyone else.

787
00:42:45,756 --> 00:42:47,316
Speaker 1: I was the one. I was the first one who

788
00:42:47,396 --> 00:42:49,276
Speaker 1: was hearing it, and I was going, this is great.

789
00:42:49,316 --> 00:42:51,836
Speaker 1: I just hope other people like this, and it got

790
00:42:51,916 --> 00:42:54,556
Speaker 1: to be that. You know that that's that's a miracle

791
00:42:54,636 --> 00:42:57,436
Speaker 1: in a way that these things happen. And so I'm

792
00:42:57,436 --> 00:43:01,716
Speaker 1: always happy and appreciative that, you know, I actually got

793
00:43:01,796 --> 00:43:05,076
Speaker 1: through my music, made it through to people's hearts, and

794
00:43:05,196 --> 00:43:08,276
Speaker 1: it changed a lot of people's lives as well. You

795
00:43:08,556 --> 00:43:10,876
Speaker 1: later wrote the song I never wanted to be a

796
00:43:10,956 --> 00:43:13,236
Speaker 1: rock star? Did you like? Being a rock star? At

797
00:43:13,276 --> 00:43:16,556
Speaker 1: this point was the only thing I knew what to do? Actually,

798
00:43:16,676 --> 00:43:20,796
Speaker 1: so yeah, Well that meant can I change my job

799
00:43:20,836 --> 00:43:22,756
Speaker 1: in the middle of this thing? I don't think I could.

800
00:43:22,996 --> 00:43:25,796
Speaker 1: It was like me saying I want to do something else.

801
00:43:25,876 --> 00:43:28,996
Speaker 1: It was probably a prelude to what was going to happen. Okay, well,

802
00:43:29,076 --> 00:43:32,916
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It's a fantastic, beautiful production. For

803
00:43:33,036 --> 00:43:35,276
Speaker 1: people who love Teaser and the Firect, they should get it.

804
00:43:35,796 --> 00:43:37,916
Speaker 1: And it was wonderful to talk to you. Thank you

805
00:43:38,036 --> 00:43:43,556
Speaker 1: you too. Thanks the use of Cat Stevens for talking

806
00:43:43,596 --> 00:43:46,596
Speaker 1: about the reissue his classic album Teaser and the Firecat.

807
00:43:46,996 --> 00:43:48,836
Speaker 1: You can check it out on a playlist all of

808
00:43:48,876 --> 00:43:51,836
Speaker 1: our favorite use of Cat Stephens songs at Broken record

809
00:43:51,876 --> 00:43:54,676
Speaker 1: podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube

810
00:43:54,756 --> 00:43:57,996
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We

811
00:43:58,116 --> 00:44:01,196
Speaker 1: can find all of our new episodes. You can follow

812
00:44:01,276 --> 00:44:04,596
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record broken Record. It's produced

813
00:44:04,636 --> 00:44:09,396
Speaker 1: with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sadler,

814
00:44:09,636 --> 00:44:13,476
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our

815
00:44:13,516 --> 00:44:17,236
Speaker 1: executive producer is Mio LaBelle Broken Record is a production

816
00:44:17,276 --> 00:44:20,596
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love the show and others

817
00:44:20,636 --> 00:44:25,036
Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

818
00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:29,156
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad

819
00:44:29,196 --> 00:44:31,796
Speaker 1: free listening for four ninety nine of a month. Look

820
00:44:31,836 --> 00:44:35,996
Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and please remember

821
00:44:36,036 --> 00:44:38,436
Speaker 1: to share, rate, and or view us on your podcast staff.

822
00:44:39,036 --> 00:44:41,716
Speaker 1: Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Mitchment