1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Not long ago, we read an email from 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: listener Miranda about Judith Sargent Murray, who was a Universalist 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: whose family had enslaved household servants, but as a denomination 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: Universalists are usually more associated with the abolition movement. I said, 5 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: this reminded me of Benjamin Lay, who was a Quaker 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: at a time before the Religious Society of Friends became 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: actively abolitionist, and was expelled from various Quaker meetings in 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: part for his vocal opposition to slavery, including by prominent 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: members of those meetings. We said at the time we 10 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: might run our episode on Benjamin Lay as a Saturday classic, 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: and here it is. The original came out on August 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty nineteen. Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and Welcome 14 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. 15 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: Several times in previous episodes we have talked about the 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: role of Quakers, who are also called Friends, in the 17 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: abolition of slavery. We haven't, though, really talked about the 18 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Religious Society of Friends before it became such a visible 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 1: part in the movement for abolition. Benjamin Lay was a 20 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: Quaker and a radical abolitionist who lived in this period 21 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: between when the Religious Society of Friends started and when 22 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: it started formally banning slave ownership among its members. During 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: that time, there were actually a lot of Quaker slave owners, 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: especially among the more wealthy and more powerful members, and 25 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: Lay was incredibly outspoken about this issue in an incredibly 26 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: visible and memorable way. In the words of Robert's Vox, 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: who wrote a brief biography of Lay in the nineteenth century, 28 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: if the comparison be admissible, he appeared rather like the comet, 29 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: which threatens, in its irregular course the destruction of the 30 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: worlds near which it passes, than is one of those 31 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: tranquil orbs which hold their accustomed place and dispense their 32 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: light in the harmonious order of heaven. So because of 33 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: this comet like behavior and this advocacy, Benjamin Lay was 34 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: disowned from multiple Quaker meetings. He's been described as the 35 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: most frequently disowned Quaker of his time. We're going to 36 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: talk more about what that means and how that happened 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: in a bit, and this is who we are talking 38 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: about today. I like that there's a superlative of most 39 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: disowned Quake Yes, like Who's number two. He was also 40 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: the last Quaker known to be disowned for advocating against 41 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: slavery and for the abolition of slavery, So he was 42 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: not the only person to be disowned, but he was 43 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: disowned a lot. He's the most last owned for this reason. 44 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay He was born in Essex County, England, on 45 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: April twenty sixth, sixteen eighty two. His parents, William and 46 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: Prudence Lay, were of course Quakers, as were his grandparents, 47 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: and Benjamin's father had a small farm, but his family 48 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: did not have a lot of money, so Benjamin didn't 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: really have much of a formal education. He did a 50 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: lot of self study later in his life, though he 51 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: liked to call himself just a poor, illiterate sailor. Eventually 52 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: he was very widely and well read, and when he 53 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: was in his teens, Benjamin went to live on his 54 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: brother's farm, where he worked as a shepherd. This is 55 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: something he seems to have really dearly loved, but his 56 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: time as a shepherd was temporary. Eventually he was apprenticed 57 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: to a glove maker, and that was something he did 58 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: not enjoy at all. So, when he was about twenty 59 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: one years old, he left and he went to London 60 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: to become a sailor instead. Having made some gloves, I 61 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: can understand if it's not for you, it's really not free. 62 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: He did not like it one bit. This was an 63 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: interesting choice for him to have made this move to 64 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: become a sailor. He was expected to inherit a family 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: farm and he was giving that up by becoming a 66 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: sailor instead. He also had cayphosis, or an excessive front 67 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: to back curvature of the spine, as well as some 68 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: form of dwarfism, and this would have made some of 69 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: the work on a ship far more challenging for him. 70 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: But it also would have allowed him to maneuver into 71 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: tight spaces and through the rigging in the ways that 72 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: larger men really couldn't lay. Was a sailor for about 73 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: twelve years, and during that time when he wasn't at sea, 74 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: he usually lived in London. He also spent some time 75 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: in the Mediterranean and the Middle East, visiting various sites 76 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: that had been mentioned in the Bible. Otherwise, we don't 77 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: have a whole lot of detail about these years at sea, 78 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: but it is where Lay started learning about the horrors 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: of the transatlantic slave trade. He heard these stories from 80 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: men who had either worked on slave ships themselves or 81 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: had heard about it from other sailors. At some point 82 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: during these years, Lay met Sarah Smith of Debtford, England. 83 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: Sarah had become a Quaker in her youth, and by 84 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: seventeen twelve she was an approved minister. Sarah's late father 85 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: had been a plasterer, and if her mother was still 86 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: living when she and Benjamin met, she had died by 87 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: the time that they married. Like Benjamin, Sarah had both 88 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: Cayphosis and Dwarfism, and in their life together people sometimes 89 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: commented on how much they resembled each other. Benjamin himself 90 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: described them as quote being pretty much alike in stature 91 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: and other ways. In seventeen sixteen, when he was thirty 92 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: four and she was four or five years older, Benjamin 93 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: started trying to get the necessary permissions to marry Sarah, 94 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: but this presented a problem. In order to marry within 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: the religious society of Friends, you had to be a 96 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: member in good standing. But Benjamin had made some waves 97 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: in his home congregation in London, which was Devonshire House. 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: Monthly meeting. When the Quaker movement was very first evolving 99 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: in Britain in the mid sixteen hundreds, a lot of 100 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: the time it was really confrontational. One of the movement's 101 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: core beliefs was that each person could have a direct 102 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: relationship with God, and in terms of the movement's ideals, 103 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: it didn't have any sort of hierarchy. Early Quakers also 104 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: spoke out against established churches and their leaders, including during services, 105 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: but by the time Benjamin Lay came along, the Religious 106 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: Society of Friends had become much more conservative, speaking out 107 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: against ministers and elders and weighty friends, which as a 108 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,719 Speaker 1: term for influential Quakers, was just not done. Benjamin did it, 109 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: though we don't know what exactly he had been criticizing 110 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: in Devonshire. He had a particular dislike for vanity, pride 111 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: and covetousness, and he also didn't like preaching that seemed 112 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: like the minister's own words rather than the word of God. 113 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: Based on later incidents that were more well documented, it 114 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: could have been any number of things, but whatever it was, 115 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: he was in enough trouble over it that he did 116 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: not go directly to Devonshire House Monthly meeting to ask 117 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: for the certificate that he needed to marry his beloved. Instead, 118 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: he worked on a ship that crossed the Atlantic Ocean, 119 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: and in Salem, Massachusetts, he went to the local Quaker 120 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: meeting house there and said that he wanted to marry 121 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: Sarah Smith of Deptford. In seventeen seventeen, the Salem Congregation 122 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: wrote to Devonshire House. After some discussion, Devonshire House wrote 123 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: back that Benjamin was quote free and clear from all 124 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: persons here relating to marriage, and also free and clear 125 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: of debts so far as we know. But their letter 126 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: went on to say that they thought Benjamin was quote 127 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: convinced of the truth, but for want of keeping low 128 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: and humble in his mind, hath by an indiscreet zeal, 129 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: been too forward to appear in our public meetings, to 130 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: the uneasiness of friends. Look, he's not in trouble, but 131 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: he is a SaaS pants. Yeah, and it's possible that 132 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: he may have been criticizing people who who were slave 133 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: owners at this point. That seems to have come along 134 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: much later into his line of thought. So I think 135 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: this was more like if he didn't like your face, 136 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: do you would tell you that he didn't like your face. 137 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: If he didn't like your preaching, same deal. He's an 138 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: upstart at heart. Once he got back to England with 139 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: that somewhat reluctant approval, Benjamin continued to criticize ministers and 140 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: others at Devonshire House and at other Quaker meetings in 141 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: and around London, where he also worshiped. He roused enough 142 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: rabble the Devonshire House refused to give him the formal 143 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: certificate that he needed for marriage. He appealed their refusal 144 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: to the London Quarterly Meeting, which investigated the situation and 145 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: said that while it didn't approve of his behavior, it 146 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:40,239 Speaker 1: also did not approve of Devonshire House withholding his certificate. 147 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: So although Devonshire House Monthly Meeting did issue the certificate, 148 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: it also ultimately disowned Benjamin. It said something to the 149 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: effect that couldn't consider him part of their number. That 150 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: meant that he was allowed to still worship there, but 151 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: he wasn't considered a member in good standing, and he 152 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to take part in business meetings. Benjamin and 153 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: Sarah did finally marry in Deptford on July tenth, seventeen eighteen. 154 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: They left London shortly thereafter and moved to Barbados, which 155 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: was also home to a Quaker community, and we're going 156 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: to get into their time there after. We first paused 157 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: for a little sponsor break. When Benjamin and Sarah Lay 158 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: got to Barbados, Benjamin established himself as a merchant with 159 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 1: a small shop that was stocked with provisions that he'd 160 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: bought before leaving England. Before long, they experienced a series 161 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: of small thefts from this store, and if Benjamin was 162 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: able to catch the perpetrator, he'd punish them with a lash, 163 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: which was a pretty common punishment for theft at the time. 164 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: But soon Lay realized that the enslaved people who were 165 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: stealing from his store were driven to it by absolutely 166 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: desperate circumstances. They were either stealing food because they were starving, 167 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: or they were stealing items that they could sell or 168 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: trade for food. So upon this revelation, Benjamin was full 169 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: of remorse for what he had done, and he and 170 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: Sarah set up an informal ministry for the enslaved people 171 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: of Barbados. They fed as many as they could with 172 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: what they had, although it was often spoiled in the 173 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: Caribbean heat, and they established a Sunday School, where Benjamin 174 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: both taught and counseled enslaved people and listened to them 175 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: as they talked about their own lives and experiences. So 176 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: by listening to the words of the people around them 177 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: and by their own observations, the Lays quickly learned that 178 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: conditions in Barbados were really horrific. They repeatedly witnessed people 179 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: collapsing from exhaustion and overwork. One enslaved man that Benjamin knew, 180 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: took his own life rather than continuing to be subjected 181 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: to regular beatings. At one point, Sarah was going to 182 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: visit another Quaker who was living nearby, and on our 183 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: way there she found a man hanging, in Benjamin's words 184 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: quote stark naked, trembling and shivering, with such a flood 185 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: of blood under him that so surprised the little woman 186 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: she could scarce contain. So when Sarah got to the 187 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: house the people she was visiting, she asked them what 188 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: was going on, and they told her that this man 189 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: was being punished for quote absconding. A day or two, 190 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: this experience in Barbados influenced not only Benjamin Lay's views 191 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: on slavery, but also his views on Africans and people 192 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: of African descent in general. A lot of the other 193 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: white abolitionists that we have talked about on the show 194 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: argued that slavery was immoral, but they were also racist. 195 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: But Lay really believes that all people were equal, later writing, 196 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: for example, quote the many hundreds of thousands that are 197 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: now in slavery, were they at liberty as we are 198 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: had the same education, learning conversation books, sweet communion, and 199 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: our religious assemblies. I believe many of them would exceed 200 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: many of their tyrant masters in piety, virtue, and godliness, 201 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: and their bright genius which I know they have, would 202 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: be enlivened for I have conversed with many of them. 203 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: For liberty is life and slavery is death. Yeah. One 204 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: of the other things that gets pointed out about his 205 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: writing a lot is that there were a lot of 206 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: abolitionists that still talked about Africans and people of African 207 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: descent as savages, and he reserved that kind of language 208 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: for the people who owned slaves. He never used that 209 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: sort of language about people who were enslaved or people 210 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: who were of African descent. So Sarah and Benjamin only 211 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: stayed in Barbados for about a year and a half. 212 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: Their work with the enslaved population really, of course, drew 213 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: the ire of the slave owning community. They faced harassment 214 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: and threats over it. Sarah was also afraid that if 215 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: they stayed there they would eventually become desensitized to what 216 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: they were seeing, so in seventeen twenty they went back 217 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: to London, where Benjamin seems to have re established his 218 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: relationship with the Devonshire House Monthly Meeting. But soon Benjamin 219 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: was once again speaking out against other Quakers. In September 220 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: seventeen twenty, a complaint was recorded that he had disturbed 221 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: Zachary Routh in his public testimony and also had called 222 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: him a drunkard and a sinner. After some back and forth, 223 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: a man named Joseph Norris brought Benjamin a notice from 224 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: a meeting about his misbehavior, and Benjamin threw that notice 225 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: out the window. He was disowned for a second time, 226 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: and then he and Sarah moved to Colchester, which is 227 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: northeast of London. And Colchester, Benjamin had a long, confusing 228 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: and frankly pretty petty seeming dispute with the Colchester two 229 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: weeks meeting. This dispute went on for years, with Benjamin 230 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 1: criticizing people and then the meeting demanding that he apologized, 231 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: and then he would double down or refuse to apologize 232 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: or give kind of a non apology. Sometimes it seems 233 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: as though Sarah tried to smooth things over here, especially 234 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: at various times she was preparing to travel without him 235 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: as a minister and to be gone for a long time. 236 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: She was concerned about his being isolated from his religious 237 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: community while she was gone. The Colchester Two Weeks Meeting 238 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: wanted to disown Benjamin, but couldn't because he was still 239 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: disowned from Devonshire House Monthly Meeting. He'd never formally become 240 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: a member of Colchester Two Weeks Meeting. And then Benjamin 241 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: and Sarah started attending a different Colchester meeting, the Colchester 242 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: Monthly Meeting, which added another layer of strife thanks to 243 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: an apparent power struggle between those two different Colchester meetings. 244 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: In the middle of all this dispute, Benjamin and Sarah 245 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: disappear from the record for about three years. It's possible 246 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: that they moved somewhere else and became part of a 247 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: congregation where Benjamin's behavior didn't draw any of this kind 248 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: of notice or he might have gone traveling with her 249 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: while she worked as a minister. Regardless, in seventeen twenty nine, 250 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: they were back in Colchester trying to make arrangements to 251 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: immigrate to Pennsylvania. The Colony of Pennsylvania had been founded 252 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: by William Penn in sixteen eighty one in part to 253 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: be a home for Quakers who were facing violence and 254 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: persecution in Europe. He called it his Holy Experiment, and 255 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: he wanted it to follow Quaker ideals. Penn wanted fair 256 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: treatment of the native people, no military, and a government 257 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: that ran on principles of freedom, including religious liberty, access 258 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: to education, and universal suffrage for men. So this was 259 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: an obvious place for the Lays to want to move. 260 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: But once again, to immigrate to Pennsylvania, they needed a 261 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: certificate from a Quaker meeting in England. Colchester Monthly Meeting 262 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: may be motivated by the idea of Benjamin Lay living 263 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: somewhere else, agreed to provide the certificate if Benjamin made 264 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: amends with Devonshire House, which he did on November third, 265 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: seventeen thirty one. Devonshire House sent a letter to Colchester 266 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: Monthly Meeting clearing Benjamin of wrongdoing Colchester Monthly Meeting received 267 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: Benjamin as a member and issued the certificate for him 268 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: to move to Pennsylvania. Meanwhile, the Colchester two weeks Meeting, 269 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: still very mad at him, wrote letters ahead of him, 270 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: warning Quakers in Pennsylvania about what they were in for. 271 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm wildly abused by all of the letters and the like. 272 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: It's very ninth grade drama, and somewhat it is. Do 273 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: you like, Benjamin? Yes? Box, no box. When the Lays 274 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: got to Philadelphia, Benjamin opened a bookshop specializing in books 275 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: by Quakers, as well as psalters, Bibles, and classical works 276 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: of literature. But he and Sarah were dismayed to discover that, 277 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: in spite of everything that they had imagined about Penn's 278 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: Holy Experiment and its dedication to Quaker ideals, slavery was 279 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: still practiced in the colony. About ten percent of the 280 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: population of Philadelphia was enslaved, and about half the membership 281 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: of the Philadelphia Monthly Meeting owned slaves. Among the wealthiest 282 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: and most powerful friends in the congregation that number was 283 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: even higher. Rather than advocating the abolition of slavery, the 284 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: religious Society of Friends was more likely to advocate treating 285 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: enslaved people humanly, or freeing people after a certain number 286 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,639 Speaker 1: of years rather than enslaving them and all their descendants 287 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: for life. Benjamin started criticizing slavery and slave owners right away. 288 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: He also met other abolitionists, including fellow Quaker Ralph Sandeford, 289 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: who by that point was in very poor physical and 290 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: mental health, in part due to being harassed by other 291 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: Quakers over his abolitionist beliefs, which had gone on for years. 292 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: Sanderford died in seventeen thirty three, so when Ley met 293 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: him it was toward the end of his life. After 294 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: a couple of years of this, Benjamin and Sarah decided 295 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: to move to Abington, about fifteen miles north of Philadelphia, 296 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: and they may have chosen this location because Susannah Morris 297 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: lived there. She and Sarah were friends and they had 298 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: traveled together as ministers, including surviving as shipwreck together. But 299 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: when the Lays tried to get their certificate from Philadelphia 300 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 1: so they could join a meeting in Abington, Robert Jordan 301 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: Junior objected, arguing that because of all of the content, 302 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: like back in England, Benjamin's membership in Philadelphia was not 303 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: authorized in the first place. Not long after they moved 304 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: to Abington, Sarah Lay died at the age of about 305 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: fifty eight. Her cause of death is unknown, it does 306 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: seem to have been unexpected and pretty sudden. Benjamin also 307 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: seems to have thought that Jordan's treatment of the two 308 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: of them contributed to it, maybe by causing them both 309 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: a lot of stress. A notice from the Abington Monthly 310 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: Meeting mentioned Sarah's quote gift of ministry and her travels 311 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: through England, Scotland and Ireland and some parts of the 312 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 1: continent as a minister. It's very likely that Sarah had 313 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: been a tempering influence in Benjamin's life, not just smoothing 314 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: things over with the various Quaker meetings that they were 315 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: part of, but also in reigning in his more radical impulses. 316 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: And without her, he dedicated himself to aggressively speaking out 317 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: against slavery. And we're going to get to that after 318 00:18:54,480 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: we have another sponsor break. Some of the chronology of 319 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay's life is a little bit fuzzy, so it's 320 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 1: possible that some of the things we're about to talk 321 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: about happened before his wife died. Even if that's the case, though, 322 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 1: after Sarah's death Benjamin became known as an increasingly eccentric figure. 323 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 1: He was heavily influenced by the Cenic philosophers, particularly Diogenes. 324 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: If you need a refresher on that, we just re 325 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: ran our episode on him as a Saturday classic. But 326 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: in general, the Cynics were in favor of living with nature, 327 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: abandoning social conventions, and living in an acetic, minimal existence. 328 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: Lay started living in a cave in Abington, which was 329 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: spacious enough that he had an extensive library there. It 330 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: was also big enough for a spinning wheel, which he 331 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: used to spin flax. He made all of his own 332 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: clothes from undyed toe linen because he didn't want to 333 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: wear any material that harmed animals or was connected to slavery. 334 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: He would use other from animals that had died naturally, 335 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: but he would not use it from ones that had 336 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: been slaughtered or hunted. Ley had also become a strict vegetarian, 337 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: although he did drink milk and he ate honey that 338 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: was made by bees that he raised himself, taking care 339 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: not to harm any of them when he harvested it. 340 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: He didn't drink tea because of the abuses in the 341 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: tea industry in Asia, and he didn't eat sugar because 342 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: it was grown, harvested, and processed by enslaved Africans. He 343 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: also went everywhere on foot because he didn't want to 344 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: exploit the labor of horses. He started publicly condemning slave owners, 345 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: especially Quaker slave owners, including during meetings, and he became 346 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: increasingly dramatic in his protests. After interrupting someone in a meeting, 347 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: he was forcibly carried out into the rain, and he 348 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: lay in the MUDs so that the whole congregation had 349 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: to step over him as they left. On another occasion, 350 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: he stood outside the meetinghouse in the snow with one 351 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: boot off and the leg of his pants rolled up. 352 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: When people asked what he was doing, or said that 353 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: he should go inside because he might get sick, he answered, quote, 354 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: you pretend compassion for me, but you do not feel 355 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: for the poor slaves in the field who go all 356 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: winter half clad. To protest the use of slave labor 357 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: in the tobacco industry and tobacco's unwholesome effects on health, 358 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: Lay took three pipes to an annual Quaker meeting, and 359 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: he smashed each of them, one among the ministers, one 360 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: among the women, and one among the men, a lot 361 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: of Quaker congregations at that point, separated by gender. He 362 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 1: did a similar demonstration against the tea industry, protesting the 363 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: conditions in the tea and sugar industries and the luxury 364 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: that was associated with tea, by smashing his late wife's 365 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: tea set with a hammer in a public square. Ley 366 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: also tried to convince some neighbors to free a young 367 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: girl that they were enslaving as a household servant. He 368 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: had also made friends with their child. In some accounts 369 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: this was a son, and others it's a daughter. One 370 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: day he convinced this child to come stay with him 371 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: for the afternoon, and when he saw the parents that evening, 372 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: distraught over their missing child, he said, quote, your child 373 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: is safe in my house, and now you may conceive 374 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: of the sorrow you inflict upon the parents of the 375 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: Negro girl you hold in slavery, for she was torn 376 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: from them by avarice. At one point, Lay traveled to 377 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: Philadelphia to visit another Quaker family. He arrived as they 378 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: were having breakfast, and he asked them whether the person 379 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: who was serving their meal was enslaved. When they answered 380 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: that yes, he was, Ley said quote, then I will 381 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: not share with THEE in the fruits of thy unrighteousness. 382 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: And he left. There's so many points in his story 383 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: where I want to yell right on, yea, Benjamin Lay 384 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: is putting the rest of us to shame completely. Ley's 385 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: most famous anti slavery demonstration took place at the Philadelphia 386 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: Yearly Meeting on September nineteenth, seventeen thirty eight. This was 387 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: an annual meeting of all the Philadelphia area Quaker meetings 388 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: held in Burlington, New Jersey. Lay walked about twenty minsles 389 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: to get there, wearing a military uniform with a sword 390 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: belted to his hip under an overcoat. He also carried 391 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: a hollowed out book in which was concealed a bladder 392 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: filled with bright red pokeberry juice. During this meeting, he 393 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: stood up and said, quote, Oh, all you Negro masters 394 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: who are contentedly holding your fellow creatures in a state 395 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: of slavery during life, well knowing the cruel sufferings those 396 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: innocent captives undergo in their state of bondage, both in 397 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: these North American colonies and in the West India Islands, 398 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: you must know they are not made slaves by any 399 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: direct law but are held by an arbitrary and self 400 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: interested custom in which you participate, and especially you, who 401 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: profess to do unto all men as you would they 402 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: should do unto you. And yet, in direct opposition to 403 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: every principle of reason, humanity, and religion, you are forcibly 404 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: retaining your fellow men from one generation to another in 405 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: a state of unconditional servitude. You might as well throw 406 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: off the plain coat as I do. He unbuttoned the 407 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: one button of his coat and let it fall on 408 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: the ground, and then went on quote, it would be 409 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: as justifiable in the sight of the Almighty, who beholds 410 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: and respects all nations and colors of men with an 411 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: equal regard, if you should thrust a sword through their 412 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: hearts as I do through this book. In some accounts 413 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: he also said, thus shall God shed the blood of 414 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: those persons who enslave their fellow creatures. So then he 415 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: drew the sword, stabbed it through the book and the 416 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: bladder that was concealed inside of it, let the fake 417 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: blood drip out of it, and flung drops of it 418 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: all over the slave owners who were around him. He 419 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: was like an early performance artist. I kind of love it. 420 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: These demonstrations unsurprisingly angered these slave owning members of the 421 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: Quaker community. They were personally offended, and his aggressive confrontations 422 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: ran against the Quaker values of peace and unity. In 423 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: that Pokeberry juice demonstration, Lay had also walked into a 424 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: Pacifist congregation wearing a military uniform and carrying a weapon. 425 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: On top of all that, in seventeen thirty eight, Lay 426 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: also published a book without the authorization of the church's 427 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: overseers of the press, who were supposed to approve all 428 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: published material by Quakers. This book was called and Just 429 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: Buckle Up, because this is I think the longest title 430 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: we've ever read. All slave keepers that keep the innocent 431 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 1: in bondage, apostates pretending to lay claim to the pure 432 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: and holy Christian religion of what congregations soever, but especially 433 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: in their ministers, by whose examples the filthy leprosy and 434 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: apostasy is spread far and near. It is a notorious 435 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: sin which many of the true friends of Christ and 436 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: His pure Truth, called Quakers, has been for many years 437 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: and still are concerned to write and bear testimony against, 438 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: as a practice so gross and hurtful to religion and 439 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 1: destructive to government. Beyond what words can set forth or 440 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: can be declared of by manner aim angels, and yet 441 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: lived by ministers and magistrates in America. The leaders of 442 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the people caused them to air written for a general 443 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: service by him that truly and sincerely desires the present 444 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: and eternal welfare and happiness of all mankind, all the 445 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: world over, of all colors and nations as his own soul. 446 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay. That was the title name of Band Pissy. 447 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: Most historians referencing this work just call it all slave 448 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: keepers that keep the innocent and bondage apostates, or even 449 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: just all slave keepers dot dot apostates. You know you 450 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: can't blame anyone for that abbreviation. No, you really can't. 451 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: This book was really scathing in its discussion of slavery 452 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: and of slave owners, especially those who claim to be 453 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: people of faith. Here's a passage quote, Now, dear friends, 454 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: behold a mystery these ministers that be slave keepers and 455 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: are in such very great repute, Such eminent preachers, given 456 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: to hospitality, charitable to the poor, loving to their neighbors, 457 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: just in their dealings, temperate in their lives, visiting of 458 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: the sick, sympathizing with the afflicted in body or mind, 459 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: very religious, seemingly and extraordinary, devout and demure, and in short, 460 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: strictly exact in all their decorums except slave keeping. These 461 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: these be the men and the women too for the 462 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: devil's purpose, and are the choicest treasure the devil can 463 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: or has to bring out of his lazaretto to establish 464 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: slave keeping. By these satan works wonders many ways. Yeah, 465 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: so even if you are that great of a person, 466 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: you are owning slaves, You are doing the devil's work. 467 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 1: Per Benjamin Lay, this book wasn't just about slavery. There 468 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: were also snippets for Malay's own life, kind of little 469 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: autobiographical sketches, including references to that whole dispute with Colchester 470 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: twice weekly meeting. There are also selections from other works 471 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: that he found me meaningful in some way, including a 472 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: couple of chapters of the Book of Revelation along with 473 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: Lay's commentary, and a chunk of John Milton's Paradise Lost. Basically, 474 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: it doesn't read as though Lay sat down intending to 475 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: write a book. It's more like he wrote things from 476 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: time to time as different ideas came into his mind, 477 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: without really a cohesive through line through all of it. 478 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: The writing style you might conclude based on the title 479 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: is also pretty rambling, even when it's not jumping from 480 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: one topic to another. Lay's friend, Benjamin Franklin, published the book. 481 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: Although Franklin left his name off the title page in 482 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: the spot where the publisher's name would normally go. Franklin 483 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: knew that Lay was not approved to have it published, 484 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: and he knew that it was kind of a disjointed mess. 485 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: Franklin had even pointed that out to Lay, who told 486 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: him that it didn't matter and to print it in 487 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: whatever order that he thought best. In the words of 488 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: the third Benjamin in this paragraph, physician and educator Benjamin 489 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: Rush quote, even the address and skill of doctor Franklin 490 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: were not sufficient to connect its different parts together so 491 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: as to render it an agreeable or useful work. As 492 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: a side note, although Benjamin Lay often refused to associate 493 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 1: with slave owners in any way, he seems to have 494 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: made an exception for Benjamin Franklin. Franklin later did become 495 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: part of the movement for abolition, but when he was 496 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: working on Lay's book, he was also enslaving at least 497 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: two people. Franklin's own views on slavery at the time, 498 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: may have been another reason why he left his name 499 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: off of the book, although he did print other abolitionist tracts. 500 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: Franklin's views may have also influenced the visual representations of 501 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay that we have today. Most of them come 502 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: from a portrait that was done by William Williams that 503 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: was commissioned for Benjamin Franklin by his wife Deborah. This 504 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: was probably done like not with Benjamin Lay sitting for 505 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: a portrait that doesn't seem like a thing he ever 506 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: would have done. Was. William Williams was probably familiar with 507 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: Benjamin Lay from having seen him around town, but this 508 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: portrait has no indication of Lay's work as an abolitionist. Instead, 509 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: it shows Lay holding a book labeled Tryon on Happiness, 510 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: which was a reference to the Way to Health, long 511 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,239 Speaker 1: Life and Happiness, or a Discourse on Temperance and the 512 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: Particular Nature of all Things Requisite for the Life of 513 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: Man by Thomas Tryon. We do know that Benjamin Lay 514 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: loved this book and apparently carried it with him a 515 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: lot of the time, but this was not nearly as 516 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: big of a part of his life as his abolitionist work. 517 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: After the poke Bury demonstration and the publication of the book. 518 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: The Philadelphia Monthly Meeting disowned Benjamin Lay on September twenty sixth, 519 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: seventeen thirty seven, saying that the certificate that he had 520 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: presented from Colchester when joining the church had been quote 521 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: irregularly maintained that his conduct was disorderly, and that quote 522 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: we have therefore sought fit to give public notice that 523 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: we do not esteem the said Benjamin Lay to be 524 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: a member of our religious community, but a disorderly and 525 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: obstinate person, one who slights the advice of friends, imposes 526 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: on them in his preaching, that he disregards the peace 527 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: of the church. The Abington Monthly Meeting disowned Lay as well, 528 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: even though he was not actually a member there. It 529 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: was like a just to be safe, prophylactic disowning. I 530 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: guess yeah. The Philadelphia Yearly Meeting also took out advertisements 531 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: denouncing Lay's books, saying it quote contains gross abuses not 532 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: only against some of their members in particular, but against 533 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: the whole society. Even after being disowned from these congregations, 534 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: Lay continued to attend services and to speak and write 535 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: against slavery at every opportunity, and he did that for 536 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 1: the rest of his life. He spoke out on other 537 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: issues as well, including denouncing the death penalty. He also 538 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: visited Quaker schools and brought books with him to give 539 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: out his prizes. He also gave money charitably, although while 540 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: he gave money to poor people who needed it, he 541 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: criticized beggars who he thought were able to work. In 542 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: seventeen fifty eight, as Benjamin Lay's health was declining, a 543 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: friend visited him and told him that the Philadelphia Annual 544 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: Meeting had decided to start disowning members who were part 545 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: of the slave trade. Lay answered his friend that he 546 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: could now die at peace. He did die on February third, 547 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: seventeen fifty nine, at the age of seventy seven. Almost 548 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: twenty years later, in seventeen seventy six, the Philadelphia Annual 549 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: Meeting bands slave ownership among its members, and then other 550 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: annual meetings followed from there. Because he had made some 551 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: money during his lifetime but had spent almost nothing in 552 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: his last years, Benjamin Lay left behind in a state 553 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: that was divided up among family members and charitable institutions, 554 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: along with forty pounds to the Society of friends at 555 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: Abington for the care of poor children in the congregation. 556 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: He was buried in an unmarked grave at the Abington 557 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: Burial Ground, although the registry there did not list him 558 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: as a member. He had asked a friend to arrange 559 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: for his body to be cremated and his ashes thrown 560 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: into the sea, but cremation was not really practiced among 561 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: Quakers at that point, and his friend refused. For a 562 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: few decades after his death, Benjamin Lay continued to be 563 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: well known, especially in the area where he lived. In 564 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: the words of Benjamin Rush we mentioned earlier, these were 565 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: written in seventeen ninety quote, there was a time when 566 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: this celebrated Christian philosopher was familiar to every man woman, 567 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: in to nearly every child in Pennsylvania. Lay was particularly 568 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: remembered among abolitionists, but eventually he seemed to just disappear 569 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: from history, and the historians who did mention him often 570 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: dismissed him as kind of an eccentric crank, rather than 571 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: as somebody who paved the way for later abolitionists. The 572 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: erasure was widespread enough that when Dave Wermaling, a caretaker 573 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: at Abington Meetinghouse, found an etching of Lay, in the 574 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. He didn't know who it was, neither did 575 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: any of the older members Wrmaling asked about it. It 576 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: remained a mystery until Marcus Rehticker visited the meeting house 577 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen while researching his book The Fearless Benjamin Lay, 578 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 1: the Quaker dwarf who became the first revolutionary abolitionist. That 579 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: book was one of the sources for this episode. It 580 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: is very good and also not particularly long if folks 581 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: are interested in picking it up. Rehdticker's work brought new 582 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: attention to Benjamin Lay's life and work, and based on 583 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: his research, Rehticker also encouraged Quaker congregations to revisit those 584 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: past decisions to disown him. Eventually, the four congregations that 585 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: had disowned Lay or their successors issued statements about it, 586 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: and as one example, on November twelfth, twenty seventeen, the 587 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: Abington Monthly Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends issued 588 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: a statement that it quote recognizes Benjamin Lay's dedication to 589 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: equality and his willingness to repeatedly speak his messages of 590 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: truth to a society that was in denial about the 591 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: evils of slavery. We acknowledged that Benjamin Lay used radical 592 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: activism and his attempts to teach his peers to recognize 593 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: the equality before God of all people, regardless of race 594 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: or gender. He lived his life with integrity according to 595 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: his Quaker beliefs, and he called others, especially slave owners, 596 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: to accountability. The statement went on to say, quote, we 597 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: now recognize the truth behind Benjamin Lay's abolitionist efforts. Although 598 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: we may not reinstate membership for someone who is deceased, 599 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: we recognized Benjamin Lay as a friend of the truth 600 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: and as being in unity with the spirit of our 601 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 1: Abington Monthly Meeting. Yeah, the statements from the other congregations 602 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: that had disowned him during his life had very similar 603 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: tones and in some cases issued joint statements about it. 604 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: In addition to all of these statements, a stone commemorating 605 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: Sarah and Benjamin Lay was placed in the Abington Burial 606 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: Ground on April twenty first, twenty eighteen, and a historical 607 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: marker a state historical marker was dedicated on September twenty second, 608 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. So he has become a little more well 609 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: known over the last couple of years. We love it. 610 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. 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