1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Jerrymander. Yeah, 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: that's right, our pet salamander, Jerrymander, And this is stuff 5 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: you should Know. That was a dad joke right out 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: of the gate man. Apparently that's all I've got these days, 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: or dad jokes. There's nothing wrong with that, I guess not, 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: which is really just a way of saying middle aged 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: dude jokes. Sure, sure, because I think our senses of 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: humor decline, we get less funny. Look at Jim gaff again, 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: but we think we're funnier, right, hot pockets. Actually, I 12 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: tease Jim, I I love your work. Oh are your pals? No? Okay, no, 13 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: but I do of his work. I'm just a fan. Yeah. Um, like, 14 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: like absolutely zero, there's zero not to like about Jim 15 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: gaff Agan. Um, you know my buddy Jim. I say 16 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: he's um, he's sort of pals with him. He says 17 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: he's a good guy. I like, there's no way he's not. 18 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: You know, like, you just you can't you can't, you 19 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 1: can't make up that level of like coolness and niceness 20 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: and approachability, affability, even maybe gaffability. He just went, that's genius. 21 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna trade Marty totally as if he listens to 22 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: this show. So here we're diving into politics, which we 23 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: keep saying, like, let's not do that because it's political. 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: But this is very newsy and not everyone understands jerrymandering, 25 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's this file this under p s 26 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: a because it's a big deal and it stinks and 27 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: it's been going on for a long time. Yeah, it was. 28 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm definitely one of those people who didn't understand it. 29 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: Like I knew, yeah, I had to do with drawing 30 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: maps and you could draw them so that they're unfair, 31 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: and I never thought, well, how do you do that? 32 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: And I found out thanks to researching this episode, and 33 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: apparently it's gotten way way worse in recent years. So 34 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: to understand gerrymandering, though, you have to understand a little 35 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: bit about the House of Representatives. One of the two 36 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: houses of Congress, one's the Senate. One is the House 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: of Representatives, and Webster's defines right, Yeah, so the deal 38 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: of the House is is that the founding fathers um 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: invented the House or established let's say the House to 40 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: be a much more sort of of the moment reactive, fair, 41 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: ultra democratic group of uh governing body, and that it's 42 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: only every two years. And the idea was to have 43 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,679 Speaker 1: a lot of turnover and have them really uh you know, 44 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: because there's four five of them, have them really uh 45 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: really tied to their constituents, right, So it's just a 46 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: super fair way for things that really matter to you 47 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: on a smaller level are heard as opposed to the Senate, 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: which is you know, far far fewer, right. And there 49 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: are a couple of ways that they did this. One, 50 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,119 Speaker 1: like you said, elections are held every two years. All 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: Congress people are up for re election every two years, 52 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: and they're they're elected directly by the people they represent. 53 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: And when they started, I think there was sixty five 54 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: seats in the House of Representatives, and by twelve I 55 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: think it was up to four d and thirty five. 56 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: And they added seats because they established the House of 57 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: Representatives to to represent a set proportion of um population population, 58 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: So each congress person represents one chunk of America from 59 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: their state, right. So the larger and large America grew 60 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: the more and more congress people you needed, and then 61 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: finally in nineteen twelve, they said, uh, we can't do 62 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: the same more. We're just gonna if you have too 63 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: many congress people, they're going to Um, you're not gonna 64 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: be able to do anything. It's just going to be 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: too many. Right, So they kept it at four and 66 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: thirty five. And that does something. It's it it means 67 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: that if you have a state that keeps growing, because 68 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: it's not like America stopped growing in population in nineteen twelve, 69 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: So as your population keeps growing, that means that as 70 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: one state keeps growing proportionately speaking, that means another state 71 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: is smaller, whether people move from that state to the 72 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: other larger state or the other larger state just by 73 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,840 Speaker 1: contrast attractive more people. That means that the smaller state 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: or the one that didn't grow as much, is going 75 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: to actually lose congressional seats, and that the bigger seats 76 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: or the bigger state, the one that's growing, will actually 77 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: gain congressional seats. Because again, a congress person represents a 78 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: set amount of American public from their home state, and 79 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: right now it's about seven I think the average is 80 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,239 Speaker 1: seven hundred and eleven thousand people is how many people 81 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: a congress person represents in the US today. Yeah, and 82 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: they did this through what's called the Reapportionment Act, of 83 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: which basically set up all right, here's an automatic system. 84 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 1: Now every ten years, we do a census, and they 85 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: will just redistribute and allocate seats according to that census 86 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: every ten years. And like you said, if you're growing, 87 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: we're gonna nip some away from the places that aren't 88 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 1: growing or shrinking. And it was, you know, it seemed 89 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: like a pretty fair way to redistribute and allocate these uh, 90 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: these seats. It is. It's extremely fair. And so as 91 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: a result, you've got like Montana that the whole state 92 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: has one congressional district that represents about a million people, 93 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: whereas New York State has, which is a third of 94 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: the size of Montana, has twenty seven congress congressional districts 95 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: and hence seats in Congress. Right, it's a very fair system. 96 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: Here's the problem when the Census Bureau figures out all 97 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: these figures and they say, well, this state actually should 98 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: get two new congress people, and you know, this state 99 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: should lose one and another state loses one. Um, they 100 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: have to redraw the maps of the state to show 101 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: what these new districts are because population is shifted every 102 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: over the ten years since the last census, so you 103 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: have to update the maps to make sure that they 104 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: each congress person is representing roughly the same number of 105 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: people and so everybody is accounted for. Again makes sense, right, Yeah, 106 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: But the problem came in when they were very vague 107 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: as far as the rules for drawing these boundaries. Uh. 108 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: It says something like geographically can geographically contiguous, compact in shape, 109 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,559 Speaker 1: roughly equal in population. All these things are subjective, so 110 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: when partisan politics become involved, the people that redraw these maps, 111 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,840 Speaker 1: it seems, can't help themselves but be like, hey, if 112 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,719 Speaker 1: we move over ten blocks this way, and like a 113 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: couple of miles that way, and shape it like this, 114 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: which looks really weird, but hey, that's okay because these 115 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: rules are vague, then we you know, even though there 116 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: may be a majority of one party, we could still 117 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: win if we draw this thing the right way, right. Like. 118 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: The big problem with this whole process for apportioning the 119 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: House of Representative seats is that they left in each 120 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: state the dominant political party who happened to be in 121 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: power at the time when the maps need to be redrawn, 122 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: it was left up to them. There's no federal oversight, 123 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: there's no there's no oversight whatsoever. And the whole premise 124 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: of it was, well, okay, um, the voters will see 125 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: what they're doing and will vote those guys out. The 126 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: problem is, if you control the congressional maps, you can 127 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: draw them in such a way that even the voters 128 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 1: can't vote you out. And this is jerrymandering. And this 129 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: is the current state of politics right now and has 130 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: been for a very long time. Actually, we've been jerrymandering 131 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: for a while, but again, like I said, supposedly it's 132 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: gotten way worse in the last decade. Yeah, all right, 133 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm a little worked up already. Yep, you've got a Interestingly, 134 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: you're crying blood. I'm trying not to, but it's not helping. 135 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a little break and maybe let's 136 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: jump back and talk history, if that's right with you. 137 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: I would love that, Chuck, and then we will go 138 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: back forward in time to study the current mess that 139 00:08:33,640 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: we're in right after this. Sorry, huh, all right, we're 140 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: in the way back machine. Yeah, it's Virginia ratifies. It's 141 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: ratifies the Constitution of the US. And former Governor Patrick 142 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: Henry convinces his state legislators to redraw the fifth Congressional 143 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: District to force his foe, James Madison, to run against 144 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: James Monroe, because he figured he could easily win. It 145 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: backfired on him. Madison came out on top. But this 146 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: kind of kick started at the onset of our founding 147 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: in our country in the Constitution, the process of jerrymandering, 148 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: even though at that point it wasn't quite known as 149 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: jerrymandering yet, No, it wasn't. It was known as jerrymandering 150 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: after I think eight the eighteen twenties, I believe, and 151 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: the governor of Massachusetts Elbridge Jerry eighteen twelve, Um Elbridge Jerry, 152 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: who was he was the governor of Massachusetts, right correct? 153 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: He um came up with a map that he drew 154 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: to help keep his party, the Democrat Republicans, I think, 155 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: which is beyond confusing, right but Um, he drew a 156 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: map that was just abhorrent. It was just so clearly 157 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: partisan and drawn just to keep his his party in 158 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: power in Massachusetts. But I think the Boston Gazette published 159 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: a picture of this map and proclaimed that it looked 160 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: like a salamander, and so they said, this isn't a salamander, 161 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: this is a jerrymander, which is a million times worse 162 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: because it's politically toxic and a lizard. I love that 163 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: little tidbit, but that's where the name came from. Yeah, 164 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: it had never had any idea, but that's where jerrymandering 165 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: came from. Not a pretty word, but it definitely rolls 166 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: off the tongue like a um oil. So it grew 167 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: to be a very common practice and very blatant, and 168 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: Congress at one point early on in two tried to 169 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: get it under control with that Apportionment Act that I 170 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: talked about um and that said, you know those vague 171 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: things like let's draw these thing as contiguous and compact 172 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: as possible. But it just apparently no one, I guess. 173 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: The rules were so vague and outlined in such a 174 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: nebulous manner that there was no way to enforce it, 175 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: such that at one point they carved out two separate 176 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: states North and South Dakota. Uh the Republican can controlled 177 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: Congress so they could get more seats in the Senate Yeah, 178 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: at the time, if you were a state, you had 179 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: three electoral College votes, don't matter your size or anything 180 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: like that. And the Dakota territories were Republican leaning, so 181 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: the Republicans said, hey, you guys, welcome to the Union. 182 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: And by the way, we're going to carve you into 183 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: two states. So now we have six electoral votes rather 184 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: than just the three if you were one big state. Yeah, 185 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: pretty clever, pretty sky says. So. Um. One thing that 186 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: this article, I think this is a Patrick Kiger article, 187 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: I think it's smart to point out is that this 188 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: is not just a Republican technique. This has been done 189 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: throughout history by both the parties UM, both the two 190 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: main parties, the Democrats and Republicans apparently also the Democratic 191 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: Republicans and UM two to the same effect, which is, 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,199 Speaker 1: we're drawing these maps to make sure that you guys 193 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: don't have a fighting chance in the next congressional elections. Right. 194 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: I did some digging though, because I was curious about 195 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: these days, like who, um It's interesting because you can 196 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: say who is worse with jerry mandering, or more correctly, 197 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: maybe who was better at jerry mandering as far as 198 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 1: getting it pushed through more, and every political science and 199 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: mathematician will tell you that, uh, across the board sort 200 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: of Republicans are are either better at it or doing 201 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: it way more or that the the recent elections over 202 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: the last I think like three or so have have 203 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: favored the GOP in ways that they ended up with 204 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: something like twenty extra seats that they wouldn't have otherwise 205 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: had had the maps not been jerrymandered. Yeah. And then 206 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: in some of these I think Maryland was one case 207 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: where even though it was at Maryland where the Democrats 208 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: held like a majority, yet they the maps are drawn 209 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: in such a way that they would have to get 210 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: like an eight to ten point Oh I'm sorry this Wisconsin. Yeah, 211 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: Wisconsin an eight to ten point victory in order to 212 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: overcome those jerrymandering maps. Yeah, which is it's just not 213 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: going to happen because Wisconsin is pretty close to being 214 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: um down the middle. And that's actually a really good 215 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: example of the modern jerrymandering that's going on. Like Patrick 216 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: Group points out, when you think of jerryman doing this 217 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: kind of thing, you think of like guys like in 218 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: a back room smoking cigars and like like poking each 219 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: other in the chest say and this this is my district, 220 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: and you can have this one that kind of thing. 221 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: But this is actually like they're very specialized political consultants 222 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: who go around the country after each census and help 223 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: states draw their maps. Um, and they're there. They do 224 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: so with like really sophisticated software that has like block 225 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: level census data, so like just like by the block, 226 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: the people who live on a block, they can carve 227 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: it out like that so that they can more accurately 228 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: create these maps. And then when they create these maps, 229 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: they can create dozens as many as you want. And 230 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: when they when they use them as a model, they 231 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: can feed them into their their computers and run a 232 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: simulation of future elections based on this map. It's and 233 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: then they can this is why it's gotten so bad. 234 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: And then they can and um, just take this block out. 235 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: What happens if we take this blackout and put this 236 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: one in instead, And now all of a sudden, oh well, 237 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: we'll win for the next ten years. And they have 238 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: this this map. And the reason that I started talking 239 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: about this apparently Wisconsin has a map that's in effect 240 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: right now that is so well done that even if 241 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: the the Democrats get fifty of the vote statewide, the 242 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: Republicans would still control sixty seats in the in the 243 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: state Assembly, that they would not lose any seats whatsoever 244 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: even if the Democrats got the vote. Yeah. And um, 245 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: the one kind of um, the one thing where it 246 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: kind of stings them, even though there haven't been any 247 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: real repercussions yet, is that one political scientist said, it's 248 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: getting so sophisticated though, and they're drawing these maps in 249 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: such a weird way that you can then go back 250 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: and look and say, this is clearly an outlier because 251 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: this thing looks like a uh, sidewinder rattlesnake across the 252 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: state and that is neither contiguous or compact. And it's 253 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: just so obvious what's going on, because you're using these 254 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: computer programs to just distort these maps to your favor. Uh. 255 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: And this is where I just get so burned up 256 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: on both sides because it's it just completely subverts the 257 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: process in place, which is you were supposed to be 258 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: able to vote for the person that represents you in 259 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: that vote count. I'm glad you said that, man, because 260 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: it's absolutely true. This is not like lip service, like 261 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: both sides to it. So we're mad about it now 262 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: like this is this is genuinely like neither side of 263 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: this should be doing this. This is a inherent flaw 264 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: in the political system that back in the day, when 265 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: things were different, we could get along with it. It 266 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: was a stumbling block. It was kind of kind of 267 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: hamstrung the democratic process some Now with a couple of things, Uh, 268 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: it has gone into hyperdrive, like so many things have, 269 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: like like normal political weirdness put through certain filters, like 270 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,880 Speaker 1: incredibly powerful computer programs that just hyper tailor things like this. 271 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: That's a big problem. The other problem is the the 272 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: polarization of politics to a degree that it hasn't been 273 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: for well over a century or so. That has made 274 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: jerrymandering all the worse because before you could jerrymander all 275 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: you want, and but there were such things as moderate 276 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: Democrats and moderate Republicans and if it was a reasonable 277 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: piece of legislation, they would cross the aisle to vote 278 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 1: for it. They would break ranks. That does not exist anymore. 279 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: If you're a moderate ten within the last ten years, 280 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: wealthy interests basically carved you out. They created um, they 281 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: created upstart political parties to run against you in the primaries, 282 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: so you would lose your seat or your national convention 283 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: would collude with their favorite candidate against you. There's no 284 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: middle any longer. So the fact that they're the current 285 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: political power, whoever is in charge of that state can 286 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: jerrymander makes it all the worse because it just makes 287 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: those divisions even deeper because the parties get what they 288 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: want one way or the other. There's no middle ground anymore. 289 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: So jerrymandering has become a real real problem in the century. Well, yeah, 290 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,479 Speaker 1: and it's just the other thing that burns me up 291 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: is is it's just a a smack in the face 292 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: of the average citizen. Yeah, it's done behind closed doors 293 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 1: with zero thought to geez, what is this country supposed 294 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: to be about? And it's just it just really burns 295 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: me up. There was a report last year by the 296 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: Brennan Center for Justice, and this just really kind of 297 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: shows exactly what's going on. It's not like we needed 298 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: this proof, but almost all jerrymander districts in this country 299 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: are in seven states Michigan, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio, Texas, 300 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: in Virginia and Texas aside, what are those other states 301 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: have in common? With one another. I don't know. They're 302 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: the swing states. Oh yeah, yeah, so the swing states 303 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: have been lost as a result of jerrymandering. Huh yeah. 304 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: Those those those seven states are where these jerryman did 305 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: jerrymander districts are happening, and they're all swing states. It's 306 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: just like it's little. It's literally they're going in and targeting. 307 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: How can we rig this thing as much as possible? Right, 308 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: It's just it's disgusting. Plus also, the next time you 309 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: hear a politician um talk about the founding fathers and 310 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: what they wanted in their view of everything like this, 311 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: this runs so far afoul of what the framers of 312 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: the Constitution we're looking for when they found when they 313 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: established the House of Representatives. It's it's mind boggling, like 314 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: they're probably generating usable energy through the spinning in their 315 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: graves that's going on right now. Because they created the 316 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 1: House of Representative Representatives so that there would be, like 317 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: you said, Chuck, turnover every couple of years that they 318 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: were the pulse of the people there. They were elected 319 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: directly by the people. They were meant to be the 320 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: voice of the people at any given time. And the 321 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: fact that jerrymandering has has been allowed to go on 322 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: like this has means that there are safe seats now 323 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: states where you can reasonably expect the party and maybe 324 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: even a single politician to hold onto for a decade 325 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: or more, which is not how it was supposed to 326 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: be in the House. No, and I saw that these 327 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: days in the US and in UM congressional races, maybe 328 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: a hundred of the four hundred and thirty five seats 329 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: are actually competitive races. The rest have been so firmly 330 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: made safe through jerrymandering over the years that they're not 331 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: even competitive anymore, either that one candidate or there one 332 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: party is going to control that that district. Alright, I 333 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: see another trick of blood coming out of your eye 334 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: this one. So let's take another break and we're gonna 335 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: get come back and start up with the two main 336 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: mayor jerrymandering techniques right after this. See good shock. Al Right, 337 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: So I promised talk of techniques. Um, you hear jerrymandering 338 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: and redrawing maps. There are a couple of ways that 339 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: you can do this. Uh, They're called cracking and packing. 340 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: Cracking is when you when you scatter the political supporters 341 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: across a lot of different districts so that they just 342 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: never get a majority in any of them. Like, let 343 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 1: me just snake it this way for a mile, then 344 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: back down here, and we pretty much know that they're 345 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: not going to get a majority and we're gonna win. 346 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: The other one's called packing, and that's when they jam 347 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: everyone into just a few districts and essentially just say, fine, 348 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna lose those districts, but we're gonna win overwhelmingly 349 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: everywhere else the majority of the other districts, so we're 350 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: gonna be fine. Right, And cracking and packing to sound 351 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: like a political consultant came up with those to explain 352 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: it to legislators, and they probably thought it was like 353 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: the most clever you know, get it, it rhymes even, right. 354 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: So here's the thing with that, right, you can you 355 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: can use those techniques in a couple of different ways. 356 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: But but with the advent of those same computer programs 357 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: that that can crack people or pack people more efficiently 358 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: into all different maps or whatever, you can use the 359 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: same ones to kind of expose that kind of thing, right, 360 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: And so you can actually with those same computers, I 361 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: think you were saying, you can use to to suppose 362 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff and that that political scientists you mentioned, um, 363 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: not George Nicholas Stephanopolis. I looked, I don't think they're related. Well, 364 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: believe it or not, um, but the but Nicholas Stephanopolis 365 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: came up with that efficiency um percentage. And so what 366 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: you do, Chuck, is you let's say that we have 367 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: and here's the part where I confuse everybody. You're ready, Yeah, 368 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 1: I was waiting on this. Okay, good. So let's say 369 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: that you have five districts, and you have ten people 370 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: in a district, and there's just two parties. I'm already lost. 371 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: So I know I've got, I've got I'm gonna start over. 372 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: I just scratched out the old stuff starting a new. 373 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: When you pack a district, meaning you take basically a 374 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: huge chunk of the other party supporters and put them 375 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: into one or two districts, what you're doing is, like 376 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: you said, you're giving up those districts. You know you're 377 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: gonna lose them. But as long as there's only a 378 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 1: couple in the larger scheme of things, as far as 379 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: Congress is concerned, you're actually coming out on top because 380 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: you're going to win more because you've packed all of 381 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: the opposition into just a couple of districts, right, So 382 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: in any one of those districts, you have some wasted votes. 383 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: You have your people's wasted votes, because you're gonna have 384 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: some people who live in that district and their votes 385 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: cannot possibly change the outcome of those districts elections, so 386 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: their votes are literally what they call wasted votes. You 387 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: also have some of that the oppositions people's votes, because 388 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: all they need is the majority of the vote or 389 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: the most votes and they're gonna win. But whatever goes 390 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: over that, that's wasted votes too. So there's a bunch 391 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: of wasted votes in there. And then similarly with cracking, 392 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: when you dilute the other parties voters and you pack 393 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: them in with your people, but you have way more 394 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: people they're us are wasted, and you've got some people 395 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: whose votes are wasted either. So if you take all 396 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 1: the wasted votes in a state and you put them together, 397 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: subtract them from one another, and then divide that by 398 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 1: a hundred, you've got what's called this efficiency percentage, and 399 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: it's actually a usable number that when you look at 400 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: it shows you very clearly which party is favorite, it's 401 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: a negative or a positive percentage, and it will show 402 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: you whose favorite. And they're they're trying to come up 403 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: with a rule of thumb now that says that anything 404 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: over a seven percent efficiency percentage is is basically undemocratic 405 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: and should be outlawed. That wasn't too confusing, was it okay? 406 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: Not at all? Here's something that isn't confusing at all. 407 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,239 Speaker 1: Prison jerrymandering. This is mind blowing that this is allowed. Uh, 408 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: certain states have counted prison populations as part of these 409 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: efforts to redraw these districts. Even though prisoners cannot vote, 410 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: they're not eligible to vote. So there's a ward in 411 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: Iowa that has fourteen hundred residents, hundred of whom are prisoners, 412 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: and that counts. And only a few a few states 413 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: so far have have ruled this unconstitutional. The rest are 414 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: just playing ball, right, And by doing that, you give 415 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: those hundred that can vote a way more power because 416 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: you're actually their their vote is the opposite diluted. It's 417 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: concentrated by the addition of the non voting block. Yeah, 418 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: and again, all this is happening because from the beginning, 419 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: political political parties are in charge of doing this and 420 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: The only thing that's going to stop this is uh, 421 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: because I would think any sensible, reasonably intelligent American would 422 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: say this is bad for democracy, no matter which party 423 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: is doing it. And the only way to possibly break 424 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: this up is to have nonpartisan commissions in charge of 425 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: redrawing these maps. Yeah, and supposedly they tried that in Canada. 426 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: I guess they had rampant jerry wandering and in the 427 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: sixties they said, we're done. Your political parties can't be 428 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: trusted with this anywhere, because Chuck, it's as simple as that. 429 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: There's no reason to put it any other way. Neither 430 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: of the political parties can be trusted with this very 431 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: very important task. It's just that's they've just proved it, 432 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: both of them, over and over again. And in Canada 433 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: in the sixties they finally just came out and said 434 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: it and put their foot down and they created a 435 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: nonpartisan unelected commission who's in charge of drawing all the 436 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: maps for all the districts in the whole country. Yeah, 437 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: and they've tried it, uh. So far in six states California, Arizona, Washington, Idaho, Jersey, 438 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: and Hawaii have passed over control h two commissions uh, 439 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: and these these maps don't even need approval, final approval 440 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: from governors or state legislators. But apparently even they're like 441 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 1: these people are appointed by somebody, so it's it's even 442 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: hard to clean it up then, And they've shown that 443 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: so far, like in California, I mean, it hasn't swung 444 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: any elections, it has made some of them closer, So 445 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: maybe it's working a little bit. It sounds like it 446 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: that I think that point is worth making. Yeah, what 447 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: did the elections that historically we're not closer closer? Yeah, 448 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: like like Darryl Lisa used to get like sixtent of 449 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: the vote, that's what he got in two thousand ten, 450 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: and once they instituted these nonpartisan commission maps in two sixteen, 451 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: he got just he got he got a margin of 452 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: less than one percent, so like he had a twelve 453 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: percent drop in votes once they change these maps. That's 454 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: significant to me. Yeah, So maybe it hasn't swung an 455 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: election in California yet, but that could be a sign 456 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: that if we continue to do this, it could work. Right, 457 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: But you would think chuck, Okay, so if this is 458 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: just such obvious like anti constitutional, anti democracy skull dug 459 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: ree of course the super fream court is going to 460 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: have something to say about this, right. Yeah. That's that's 461 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: where it's gotten really weird this year, is that there's 462 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: a case gil versus Whitford, uh that I believe was 463 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: that didn't the Supreme Court just say they're not even 464 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: gonna hear it? Yeah? They actually kicked it back down 465 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: to the lower courts on a technicality, saying that the 466 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: people involved hadn't shown that they have standing because they 467 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: hadn't been directly harmed by it. And they said, you 468 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: go prove that your vote was actually wasted because of 469 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: a jerrymandered map, which actually wouldn't be that hard to 470 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: do these days. Um, and and let another lower coote 471 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: rule on it, and maybe we'll we'll hear it next time. 472 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: But they've been punting on it. Yeah, I mean, and 473 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: that's the way our political system works. I'm not saying 474 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: subvert that, but it seems like at some point we 475 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: as a nation that should be able to come together 476 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: and say, hey, kind of like money and dark money 477 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: and stuff like, can we just clean this up? But 478 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: here's the thing, Chuck, if you got jerrymander maps, even 479 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: if everybody turns against the dominant political party. You have 480 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: to have like six of the vote, a massive votered 481 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: voter turnout with like six of the vote voting against 482 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: you to actually overwhelm the jerrymandering that that that these 483 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: these maps producer, that the um the political tenacity that 484 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: these jerrymandered maps produced, and you just don't have that, 485 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: and what you could do it with that. But it's 486 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: it's it's just as as the current political reality is, 487 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: it's just not gonna happen. And so as long as 488 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: they're allowed to to keep these maps, whoever's in power 489 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: whenever they redraw the maps actually gets to hang onto it. Yeah, 490 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: And this is just another example of like feeling powerless 491 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: because the stuff is being decided among very few people 492 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: in these U closed door sessions and they I'm sure 493 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: they all think they're very clever and how they're uh 494 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: taking advantage of the system, like right in front of 495 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: our stupid faces. And then and the Supreme Court to 496 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: not swinging in. On the one hand, it's like come on, 497 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, a lot of times we 498 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: don't really want necessarily activist justices. It depends on the 499 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: topic probably or the issue and how you feel about it, 500 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: but there there. They have a long history of saying 501 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: that's political, that's not constitutional. You guys, go handle it yourself. 502 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: But one thing I saw as an explanation for why 503 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is yet to get involved is because 504 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: there's no UH standard for what constitutes a a congressional 505 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: or a state district map. There's no standard that the 506 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: Supreme Court can look at and say this is the standard. 507 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: This doesn't live up to that standard. Therefore we're going 508 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: to rule this way. So that's why they haven't done that. 509 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: But they tend more often than not to uphold maps. 510 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: Very very infrequently do they overrule them. And there was 511 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: like a whole space of maps from Texas, North Carolina, Maryland, 512 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: and Wisconsin that they basically said, yep, they're fine whatever. 513 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: And Texas they demonstrated that these jerrymandered maps had been 514 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: used to dilute the voting power of Hispanics who live 515 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: in Texas and are the majority of Texas. Now they 516 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: the maps have been drawn specifically with the purpose of 517 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: of diluting their voting power, which goes in against the 518 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: Voting Rights Act of nine. That's one thing they say, like, 519 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: you can't mess with minorities voting rights, and for a 520 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: long time they said, well that includes jerrymandering. Well, Neil 521 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 1: Gorsuch and Clarence Thomas are both um starting the I guess. Uh. 522 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: In this most recent one from I think Texas, they 523 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: added on their own opinions saying, we don't think the 524 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: Voting Right at Rights Act actually prohibits that. And I 525 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: think racial jerrymandering is totally fine under the law, which 526 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: is a big problem. Yeah, and then go back and 527 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: and then that act. Yeah, you could do that, but 528 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: then again you have to overcome the jerrymander right exactly. Man, 529 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: it's a what do eat? What's the snake that eats 530 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: and stale? What's that called? The Burrows District of Maryland 531 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: probably is what you call. It's what it looks like. 532 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: Oh it's depressing. Huh. Yeah. There's there's one more thing too. 533 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,239 Speaker 1: This has been used actually to the opposite effect. Who 534 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: I think during the first Bush administration they were really 535 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: big on drawing maps that um that were called affirmative gerrymandering, 536 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: which made sure that majority minority, meaning that areas where 537 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: most of the people who lived there were minorities, uh, 538 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: that they had very very strong voting power that it was. 539 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 1: They went out of their way to reflect it, and 540 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: they actually overreached in that way too, and and sometimes 541 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: the courts would throw those out. But um, it's it's 542 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: gone both ways for sure throughout history. But it just 543 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: needs to stop entirely because people aren't able to actually 544 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: vote or be represented in Congress like they should be. 545 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: You got anything else? Now? I see the blood has 546 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: crusted up nicely from my eyes near. You settled down, 547 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: worked up in this one too, you were, And I 548 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: was glad. I was glad. Everybody should be worked up 549 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: about this one. Everybody. Yep. Uh. If you want to 550 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: know more about jerrymandering, we'll look up this article on 551 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 1: how stuff works. It's pretty good. Since I said it's 552 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:29,080 Speaker 1: pretty good, it's time for listener, mate, I'm gonna call this. Uh. 553 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: This is a very sad one, but I'm trying to 554 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: get the word out to a to a listener. Here 555 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 1: for a listener, Um, guys. After a six year battle, 556 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: my father passed away last week from a m l 557 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: acute my Lloyd leukemia at only sixty five years old. 558 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 1: In the middle of his struggle, however, he was able 559 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: to achieve about two years of remission through the help 560 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 1: of a bone marrow stem cell treatment. While the treatment 561 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: ultimately failed, his remission gave him two more years would 562 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: be relatively healthy life where he was able to meet 563 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: the absolute apple of his I and my new baby daughter. 564 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: Uh sorsha, Oh congratulations, love that name. She will be 565 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: one year old July one, which is kind of right 566 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: around when this is coming out, probably Uh, and spend 567 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: time with my other two kids, Gavin and Grayson doing 568 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: one of the things he loved most in the world, 569 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: which is being a grandfather. Hoping maybe you guys can 570 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: give a shout out to the be The Match Bone 571 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: Marrow Registry only takes a few minutes to register and 572 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: they send you a little cheek swab kit that you 573 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: send back in and boom, you are now eligible to 574 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,239 Speaker 1: get the call to possibly give someone more time with 575 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: their friends and family or possibly even save their life. 576 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: You can go to www dot b the match dot 577 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: org and check it out. Uh, and that is from 578 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: Chris and uh row back to Chris. Very sorry to 579 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: hear about his father and uh definitely definitely a worthy 580 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: organization to check out. Yeah, thanks for telling everybody, Chris 581 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: that's a that's a good one. I'm going to check 582 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: that out myself. Yep, me too. If you want to 583 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: let us know about something that we and everybody who 584 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 1: listens to this podcast can do to make the world 585 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,120 Speaker 1: a better place, we really really want to know about it. 586 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 1: You can tweet to us. You can join us on Instagram, 587 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: on Facebook, all that jam. You can find all those 588 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: links at our website, Stuff you Should Know dot com. 589 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: You can also send us an email send it to 590 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. For more 591 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff 592 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: works dot com.