1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: M Cumberland Gap. Was that so important because coming from 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: the Eastern colonies, from the Carolina's, from Tennessee, that was 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: the way. It was a hard thing to go do 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: and they knew that to do it, to try to 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: pull it off, they knew it was risky. They knew 6 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: it was a major undertaking. You had to scout it, 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: you had the plan. It was like a thing. On 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: this episode of the Beargrease Podcast, were on part two 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: of our series on the Incredible Life of the American 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: Backwoodsman Daniel Boone. We're gonna dive in deep, like over 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: your head deep into a topographic feature in the Appalachian 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: Mountains that was a major player in the identity of 13 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: Old d Boone and America. We're talking about the Cumberland Gap. 14 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: We'll interview to New York Times best selling off there's 15 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: some Boone experts, Stephen Ronnella and Robert Morgan, will nerd 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: out with the geologist, will talk about the potential historical 17 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: revision of Boone. And lastly we'll talk with a member 18 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: of the Cherokee Nation and hear his perspective on the 19 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: Old Gap. The path is rough, an American identity is 20 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: at stake. You're not gonna wanna miss this one, and 21 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: do me a favor, give yourself a pop quiz. What 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: do you know about the Cumberland Gap. I don't know. 23 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,319 Speaker 1: Maybe the weather is nicer, maybe there's more games, and 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: it gets rewarded because it is. Boy, it's like people 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: moving because they just gotta know, they gotta go see. 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukelem and this is the Bear 27 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 28 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 29 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 30 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: Presented by f HF gear, American made, purpose built hunting 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 32 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: the places we explore back Daniel Boone's passing through the 33 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap has been mythologized in American culture. They've written 34 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 1: songs about it, made movies, written poems, and made art. 35 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I've got the reprint of the famous eighteen fifty two 36 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: painting by George Bingham in My House. It depicts Boone 37 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: leading his family in a group of settlers through the 38 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: rugged Gap. The mountains around him are dark and ominous, 39 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: but beautiful white bathes Boon's figure, making him look almost angelic. 40 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: To understand Dan Boone, We've got to understand the Cumberland Gap. Okay. 41 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: Tell me everything you know about the Cumberland Gap. Okay, Well, 42 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: that will not take very long. The only thing I 43 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: know about the Cumberland Gap is that folk musicians like 44 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: to write about it in their songs. Where are you from? So, 45 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: do you have a sense of where the Cumberland Gap 46 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: is in relation to Michigan? I know it is South Michigan. 47 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: Tell me everything you know about the Cumberland Gap, the 48 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap. Nothing, Cumberland Gap, Cumberland Gap. I want to say, 49 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: it's somewhere in the wild, wild West. I want to say, 50 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: maybe there's a grocery store. I want to say a 51 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: Cumberland Grab grocery store. That's all I got. Hey, guys, 52 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: tell me everything you know. We'll start with you. Everything 53 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: you know about the Cumberland Gap. Is that like a 54 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: fault line or something? I don't know. You tell me, 55 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I've heared the Cumberland Gap. 56 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: Do you know what? I don't know what it is? 57 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: You don't know anything about the Cumberland Gap. I feel 58 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: like if you mentioned it, I would, but I don't know. 59 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: I can't think. Come on, there's one more guy standing. 60 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't know. I was struck out on 61 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap. This is embarrassing. Josh Landbridge spilmmaker, do 62 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: you know anything about the Cumberland Gap? The Cumberland Gap, 63 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: I know is in some songs. I know that there 64 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: is a gap named after General Cumberland. He had quite 65 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: a mustache if I remember, Are you being serious? How 66 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: do you know that you just made that up? It's 67 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: not too far from the truth, because the Cumberland Gap 68 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: was named after the Duke of Cumberland. Dead serious. He 69 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: probably had a nice mustache. That song is called Cumberland Gap. 70 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: It's been played by a string band out of Ohio 71 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: called the Wayfarers. I'm continuing to build on the assumption 72 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: that the average American doesn't know much about Daniel Boone, 73 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: and we're exploring how despite that, this backwoodsman's influence on 74 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: the American worldview was notable. In Part one, we learned 75 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: that archetypes are the mechanism of this powerful culture building weapon. 76 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: They deliver a value system through branding around the lives 77 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: of our heroes or villains. After some time, the values remain, 78 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: but the original life the host is often forgotten. And 79 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: this is just the point. Daniel Boone did stuff that 80 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: captured the attention of America and the world in a 81 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: vulnerable time period when we were looking for identity. The 82 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,359 Speaker 1: prime of his life was in the seventeen seventies, a 83 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: time when many of our heroes were birth and old. 84 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: Dan stepped up to the plate and, in true Americana fashion, 85 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: became a representative man, the courageous explorer, engaging and thriving 86 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: in the wilderness and bringing civilization with him. He delivered 87 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: parts of the American dream to America. I'll point out 88 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: that this was a new identity for planet Earth, at 89 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: least this version of it, and it had ravish appeal. 90 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: In Part one, we left the Burgaras podcast world in 91 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: a massive cliffhanger, with Daniel Boone and John Finley finding 92 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap and going into the frontier of Kentucky 93 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: in seventeen sixty nine. We're gonna nerd out on the 94 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap and we'll hear first hand from Boone what 95 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: happened on that first trip into Kentucky. Well sort of, 96 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: it's complicated, but there's a bigger question at hand. Why 97 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: were they risking life and limb to get into Kentucky? 98 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: And an even bigger question is this, why is there 99 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: this deep history of human geographic dispersion. Old Steve ronnella 100 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: meet eater, has something to say about this. I introd 101 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: him up right on part one, and he's got all 102 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: the street cred or should I say backwoods cred. He's 103 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: a New York Times bestselling author, a hunter, and a 104 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: noted boon expert. Here's Steve. There's a kind of a 105 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: theory of human movement around the earth where or shouldn't 106 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: say a theory. Way to imagine human movement around the 107 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: earth so often is that it's you're propelled by warfare 108 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: and starvation, human migrations under dear rest. So with people, 109 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: you know, in the nineteen thirties, right, you have Jews 110 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: escaping Europe, you know, and maybe coming trying to escape 111 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: the coming holocaust and get to the United States, or 112 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: just you know, different things like migrations in Ethiopia from 113 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: famine and that, and that moves people. There's also this 114 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 1: this aspect of that it has been just driven by curiosity. 115 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: Human migrations into the New World. Are human migrations into 116 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: the Western hemisphere, you can't really look at and explain 117 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: it like that. They were being pushed along by warfare, 118 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: being pushed along by overpopulation. They were moving from like wilderness, 119 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: like a wilderness setting, to a wilderness setting, oftentimes across 120 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: the tremendous hurdles, probably crossing ice sheets, crossing glaciers that 121 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: are coming down valleys. You have no idea, no one's 122 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: ever been there before. You, you have no idea what's 123 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: on the other side of the glacier, if anything, But 124 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you gotta go look. And there's a 125 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: practical aspect, like I don't know, maybe the weather is nicer, 126 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: maybe there's more game, and it gets rewarded because it is. 127 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: But it's like people moving because they just got to know. 128 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: They gotta go see. Is it dangerous? Was it dangerous 129 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: across a glacier when you had never met or talked 130 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: to or heard about anybody who had ever lived south 131 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: there before. As far as you, you're just going into 132 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: the absolute unknown, but you're dying to know. And I 133 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: think that you, like, you can't ignore that aspect of 134 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: what that must have seemed like to guys. Sure, Boone's 135 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: like a market hunter, he hunts hides for a living, 136 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: but the god there has to have been an enormous 137 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: amount of curiosity about it. The reason it's so safe 138 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: to assume that is because the Cumberland Gap was a 139 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: very literal for them, like a very literal pathway into 140 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 1: a relatively untapped hunting ground. These guys were hunting stuff 141 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: that have been hunted by people prior to them. They 142 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: made a living off it. Here's a place to go 143 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: where the Euro Americans, like your peers, haven't tapped it 144 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: out yet. It's supposed to be loaded with buffalo, loaded 145 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: with deer, loaded without, loaded with beaver. So it's like, yeah, man, 146 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: you go there and make a lot of money. But 147 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: think about how we now feel like still today, when 148 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: we're not tied to the market incentives. We still dream 149 00:09:55,520 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: about and talk about the secret spots, the secret hunting 150 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: places that haven't been tapped out. So it's like, to them, 151 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: was this literal gap that you could use to get 152 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: into the good hunting ground. But for us, it's like, 153 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: you can just get it. It works perfectly well as 154 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: nothing but a metaphor for like a passage, like a 155 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: keyhole that you go through that brings you into like 156 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: the dream landscape upon which you live your life. I 157 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: think that's why we still sit around here talking about 158 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: it today. It had to have existed in both ways. 159 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: To Boon, it had to exist as a literal thing like, no, 160 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: there's this big mountain. It's really hard to get through. 161 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: You can't really get over there, but there's a way 162 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: to do it. Okay, that's cool. But also like that 163 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: curiosity element was there too, Man, it was both. Do 164 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 1: you think that is that's deep inside of us as 165 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: humans at like a d N A granular level. Oh, 166 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: I mean it has to be, man, I mean it's 167 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: so hard to understand like how that stuff manifest But 168 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: you put it this way if you want to explain, like, well, 169 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: I would it be that way? Why are humans like that? 170 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: Because it's rewarded. It's rewarded, there has been. You may die, yeah, 171 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: but but you may get a big reward. You might 172 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: also just if you imagine like as a species, like 173 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: moving or moving across landscape, going to new places. There's 174 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: a danger to it, but imagine the reward that you 175 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: get into a place where you have unlimited access to land, 176 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: you have unlimited access to game, You're able to produce 177 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: many children and have place for them to stick around. 178 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: Like there's an advantage too being out on the at 179 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: like being making the discoveries and finding things another way 180 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: to look at them. And it kind of like almost 181 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: defies Like you know, it's so hard to imagine, but 182 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: imagine the first Polynesians who were rewarded with landing in 183 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: Hawaii just they were just heading out on big blue 184 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: Ocean's like, oh, here's a giant land mass that no 185 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: one lives on, and we'll now have like st angering 186 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: population growth and established this whole new culture on this 187 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: untapped landscape that we don't need to fight to get right. 188 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: It's like it is an enormous reward. Or then you 189 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: have all the people that probably sailed off into the 190 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: South Pacific never to be seen again and died to thirst. 191 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: So do you think or you get a big island 192 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: there seems to be and I think we would see 193 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: this still inside of humanity today manifested in different ways. 194 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: But there are people like Boon that push the edge 195 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: and they're there are settlers. There are people that stay 196 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: where they're at and they find gratification for life in 197 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: insecurity and staying safe. There's much to be said for 198 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: the latter, But then there's also there's much reward for 199 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: those who have this wandered list and that defined Boone's lot, 200 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: defined his life. Human movement implies that humans have to 201 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: deal with the actual topography of the Earth. I think 202 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: we need to understand topographically what a gap is. I 203 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:11,599 Speaker 1: know just the guy to talk with. Dr Greg Dumont 204 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: is the geology professor at the University of Arkansas. I'm 205 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: interested in understanding the geologic history of this gap that 206 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: helped define Boone's life and build an empire, and if 207 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: why the gap sits almost slap on the spot where Virginia, 208 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: Tennessee Kentucky touch. However, most of the actual mountain pass 209 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: is in Virginia. Meet Dr Dumont. Dr Dumont, I am 210 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: trying to understand two things what a gap is from 211 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: a geologic standpoint, because we throw out this term a gap, 212 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap, in such a way that we just 213 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: assumed that everybody knows what that is. So I want 214 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: to understand what a gap is is. But then the 215 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: second thing I want to understand is why the Cumberland Gap, 216 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: even from a topographic perspective, was so special. Talk to 217 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: me about like how a gap would be formed in 218 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: the Appalachian Mountains. Well, gaps throughout any sort of mountain 219 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: belt across the world are sort of a product of 220 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: erosion of rock that's been uplifted to make the mountain 221 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: in the first place, and erosion works preferentially, for example, 222 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: on the rocks that are weakest, so like a shield 223 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: versus the granite. Uh. If there are places where the 224 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: mountains or rocks have been fractured, you might have faults 225 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: that slid and they introduce a place where erosion can 226 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: can happen and create that notch or gap that would 227 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: allow people to pass through it. Other places, like if 228 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: you were in the Himalayas, you'd have glaciers that are 229 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: creating some of those notches that you could pass over. 230 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: And the term notch gap pass applies universally. You know, 231 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: you can look across the US and the rockies up 232 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: in Canada in the Appalachians and see similar features and 233 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: not all of them are caused by the same things. 234 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: The Appalachians were the product of several mountain building events, 235 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: But one that was really prominent is what's called the 236 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: alleghany in orogeny. When you take continental crust and other 237 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: material and you collide it together to make a mountain belt, 238 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: you end up producing faults where some rocks slide up 239 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: on top of another. In the Pine Mountain Thrust is 240 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: the main structure that brings part of the Appalachians up 241 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: on top of the adjacent rock. But then there are 242 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: other faults. You know, everyone's familiar with the San Andrea's 243 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: fault for example, and in that case, rocks are actually 244 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: sliding past each other on a very steep fault, like 245 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: uh Los Angeles is now creeping towards San Francisco, for example. 246 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: And the fall that's unique in the Cumberland Gap is 247 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: kind of like that. It's a steep fault where rocks 248 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: have slid past each other, called the Rocky Face fault. 249 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: And if you didn't have the juxtaposition of the Pine 250 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: Mountain Thrust and the Rocky Face fault where they sit 251 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: and intersect each other, it seems conceivable you wouldn't really 252 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: had a gap. Really, So there's two different major forces 253 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: working together that created to yeah, two faults that occur 254 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: right in that vicinity that helped create the gap. And 255 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier how the rock type matters to 256 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: and uh, some of the high ground that's held up 257 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: along the ridges is a very resistant sandstone conglomerate rock, 258 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: and so it helps to have rocks that are more 259 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 1: resistant weathering. What kind of map would you call this? 260 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: So you got pulled up here. So this is what's 261 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: called a digital elevation model, and it's basically a three 262 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: dimensional representation of what hunters would see as a topographic 263 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: map that I don't know if anybody knows about this, 264 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: but there is a huge impact creater that is just 265 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: to the south west of what you're talking about. Is 266 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: that a natural like there? It's well, I know it's 267 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: uh not a league it is. So here's the topographic 268 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: map and you can see it's a depression. So he's 269 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: let me describe to you what I'm seeing. He's he's 270 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: pointing at an impact crater which looks like, I mean, 271 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: like an asteroid or something hit there. Is that right? 272 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: That is what the current thinking is that here's a 273 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: geologic map and you can see it's got this circular 274 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: shape to it, and there is uh, pretty decent evidence 275 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: that post deposition of these rocks and the Appalachian and 276 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: rogen e something smack down and apparently this is one 277 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 1: of the few places where coal is mined within an 278 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: impact creator. Yeah. Geologists call these impact creators astro bleams. 279 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone had three interesting structures to negotiate along with 280 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: all of the Native Americans prior to him and everybody 281 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: trying to make the big trip across the Appalachians. Two 282 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: intersecting faults, and an astro blam where an asteroid hit 283 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: aided in forming the Cumberland Gap. I like connecting human 284 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: history to grand things like mountain building that we have 285 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: absolutely no control over but inflict a massive control on us. 286 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: The Cumberland Gap is the biggest and best gap for 287 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: a hundred miles in either direction, and forces above and 288 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: below the earth helped make it that way. It's wild 289 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: because no gap in the world has been more critical 290 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: in building an empire than the Cumberland Gap. The gap 291 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: is actually pretty new to people of European descent, but 292 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: Native Americans have used it since before recorded history, and 293 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: they call that the warriors Path or at the woman Ee. 294 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: This gap connected the Iroquois Confederacy and the Cherokees in 295 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 1: the South. The first recorded account of Europeans going through 296 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap dates back to the sixteen seventies, but 297 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Dr Thomas Walker officially named the gap it's European name anyway, 298 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: in the seventeen fifties. Wild and ironic, this American gap 299 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: was named after a straight up English chump, the Duke 300 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: of Cumberland, because of his recent military escapade. And wouldn't 301 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: you know it, they named the whole stinking Mountain range 302 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: after this man, who never set foot in North America. 303 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: Oh the injustice. The Shawnee, however, called the range was Oto, 304 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: which means mountains where the deer are plentiful. Now I 305 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: can get behind that. Dr Walker was a medical doctor, 306 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: a land speculator in a woodsman who took good notes 307 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: of his seventeen fifty travels into Kentucky. They hauled a 308 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: pack of bear hounds with him and ate a lot 309 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: of bear meat. Here's a couple of wild stories. One 310 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: of his men got bit on the knee by a bear. 311 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: Pretty unfortunate. Walker's horse got snake bit on the nose 312 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: and he rubbed it with bear grease to help cure 313 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: it not kidding. It's in his journal. Walker recorded killing 314 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: thirteen buffaloes, eight elk, fifty three bear, twenty deer, four geese, 315 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty turkeys on their five month trip, and 316 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: Walker's men built the first log cabin constructed by white 317 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: men in Kentucky. It was no doubt quite the trip, 318 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: but very few remember Dr Walker's name, but they do 319 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: remember Boone, who crossed the gap almost twenty years later. 320 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: I want to take you into the Cumberland Gap. You 321 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: can go there yourself. This mountain pass maintain its relevance 322 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: into modern times as a travel corridor, as it eventually 323 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: became modern US Highway twenty five. The section of road 324 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: was extremely treacherous in the Cumberland Gap was notorious for 325 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: tragic vehicle accidents, claiming an average of five lives per 326 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: year in this very short stretch of road. However, something 327 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: good happened. On October eighth, the Cumberland Gap twin bore 328 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: four lane tunnel was opened, which burrows through Cumberland Mountain 329 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: and then an incredibly encouraging feat, they removed the concrete 330 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: and asphalt highway that went through the old gap and 331 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: rewilded it and today it looked similar to what it 332 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: looked like when only a single wagon lane trail passed 333 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: through it. The gap now sits in the Cumberland State Park. 334 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: It's an incredible place and I took my family there. 335 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: So we are at the Cumberland Gap. Is the history 336 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap. We're in the Cumberland Gap right now. Take 337 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: a picture with your mama. Moccas and clad warriors battling 338 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: Civil Wars soldiers each was here in the historic Cumberland Gap. 339 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: And now so are you. This is the historic Cumberland Gap. 340 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: You're there. This is it, man. I think this is 341 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 1: where James Lawrence would put his trees down if he 342 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: was trying to hunt the Cumberland Gap. Boys, this is 343 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: about the most narrow spot of the gap. You know. 344 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:32,399 Speaker 1: The Native Americans called this the deer path, and James 345 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 1: Lawrence and many others before and since him made a 346 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: living off deer hunting in these gaps in the mountains. Guys, 347 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone stood right here. Think about that. I mean, like, 348 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: maybe his feet were right where your feet are, and 349 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: the vegetation of the gap would have been different. In 350 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty nine was the first time he came through here, 351 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: but he would have stood within I mean at least 352 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: ten feet of here, no doubt. I think of all 353 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: the Native Americans that came through this gap, the Buffalo wild. 354 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: What do you think, crazy, John, I think it's pretty cool. 355 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 1: Describe what these woods look like. Bear right here in 356 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: the comer. They look a lot like Arkansas, which I 357 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: guess is eastern deciduous. Right there, there's a lot of 358 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: oak trees, white oak trees. There's a lot of like 359 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: it's fret of green on the ground. There's a lot 360 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: of rocks with covered in moss. Yeah, going into the 361 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: gap was a unique experience for me. You get the 362 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: impression the Cumberland Gap is massive and grand, but it's 363 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: really not. It's a narrow mountain gap. It's wild to 364 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,959 Speaker 1: think that such historical significance was derived from such an 365 00:23:53,960 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 1: obscure place. Frederick Jackson Turner wrote, stand at the Cumberland Gap, 366 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: and watch the procession of civilization marching single file, the 367 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,200 Speaker 1: buffalo following the trail to the salt springs. The Indian, 368 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: the fur trader and hunter, the cattle raiser, the pioneer 369 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: farmer in the frontier has passed by. Here's Steve Ronnella 370 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: on the significance of the Cumberland Gap on Boone's life. 371 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: Some people's lives we see this through history. Some people's 372 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: lives become defined by history, not necessarily by them. I 373 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: don't know if Daniel Boone would look back at his 374 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: life and see that going through the Cumberland Gap was 375 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: that significant. Maybe would maybe wouldn't. But history has decided 376 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: that that is this defining moment that was iconic. Man, 377 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: it had significance to him. Why why was it significant? 378 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:55,479 Speaker 1: If you would have asked him and he was in 379 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: the mood to discuss it, I think it would have 380 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: been described as this is what we his families people him, 381 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: this is what we had always been hoping to find 382 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: in all those moves and all those shifting arounds, like 383 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: that's the thing you were after, unlimited game, grassland, agricultural land. 384 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 1: No other people that look like you there. The people 385 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: that were, they were easily dismissed by them, reckoned with, 386 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,479 Speaker 1: but but not recognized as a rightful owners to it, 387 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: you know. And also it was a hard thing to 388 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: go do, and they knew that to do it, to 389 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: try to pull it off, they knew it was risky. 390 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: They knew it was a major undertaking. You had to 391 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: scout it, you had the plan. It was like a thing, 392 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: meaning that not to in any way equate this. I 393 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 1: grew up in Michigan and wounded up in Montana. If 394 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: I was laying out my life for someone later, I 395 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: would put that as a key moment. Okay, that was 396 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: like a key moment upon which many things were angered. 397 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: And there's no way that Boone wouldn't regard that. Going 398 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: through the Cumberland Gap, and he didn't. You know, he 399 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: didn't discovered Kentucky. He wouldn't have said he discovered Kentucky. 400 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: He no doubt went places that no white man had 401 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: gone before. Absolutely, but it wasn't through the gap. He said, like, man, 402 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: my whole life built up to this. I put everything 403 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: I had into making this a go. I put my 404 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: family at risk to make this a go. He's buried 405 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: in two places, but I think it would have been symbolic, 406 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: and he would have recognized the symbolism. Had you taken 407 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: his ashes and and sprinkled him at the top of 408 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap, I think it would have been to him. 409 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: It would have made sense. I want you to hear 410 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: two of Steve Ronella's favorite Boon stories, and both involved 411 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Gap. Here's what he had to say. I 412 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: have two favorite Boon stories. Ones very precise and specific 413 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: and one is more general, and that one is about 414 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: a moment and the other one is about a stretch 415 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: of years in terms of the one that lasted for 416 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: a stretch of years. If I had an opportunity to 417 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: to do time travel and I just had one shot, okay, 418 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: I'm torn between two things. One would be to go 419 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: to the northern Great Plains at a time when the 420 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: first humans had kind of entered what is now the 421 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: sort of like you know, the Mid Continent entered what 422 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: is now the Great Plans of America. Okay, so no 423 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: non Boon related, non boon related years ago. Whatever it 424 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: was to be on the Northern Plains with the Paleo 425 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 1: Indian hunters who were first ever humans is step foot. 426 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 1: So if I didn't do that place to seeing you know, 427 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: mammoth hunter move, I would want to go with Boone 428 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: when he went in first hunted Kentucky for a couple 429 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,479 Speaker 1: of years, and yes, I said a couple of years. 430 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: They went there on a long hunt. People he was 431 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: with were killed. He wound up staying wilfully, not trapped, 432 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: just staying so long that he ran out of gunpowder, 433 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: had to make his own gunpowder with bat guano from caves. 434 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: Worked up, you know, a good amount of money's worth. 435 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: The hides lost. It was taken from him by the Indians, 436 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: and they and from their perspective, he had taken it 437 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: from them. They took it back, worked up another good 438 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,360 Speaker 1: fortune and Hides had that taken from him, comes home 439 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 1: empty handed. But that adventure, that two year adventure in 440 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: the wilderness, the finite, very specific moment is later when 441 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: Boone wanted to bring his family out to the wilderness 442 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: of Kentucky. His boy, one of his boys, was tortured 443 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: and killed on the route on the on the wilderness 444 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: road that led into Kentucky, which that was the Cumberland Gap. 445 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: They were spread out, they were moved even live stock, 446 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: you know, you imagine him like walking along, but they 447 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: were they're they're strung out, well, they're strong, they're strong 448 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: out so much in fact, as they're traveling through in 449 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: a big group. They're strung out so much in fact 450 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: that his boy gets caught, tortured and killed and Boon 451 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: doesn't know what's going on until later, but he's very uh, 452 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: you know, his boy's left there, and he's very hastily buried. 453 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: They didn't want to linger. They hastily bury his son. 454 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: I believe it might have been about a year later. Um, 455 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: And this is the kind of favorite Boone story moment. 456 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: About a year later, he happens to be going through 457 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: there by himself, and as he tells it, it's raining. 458 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: He describes it as the most as the lowest point 459 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: of his life. Goes back to find his boy's grave. 460 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: His boy was killed with another kid, finds where they 461 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: had hastily buried him and had been dug up by wolves, 462 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: and it was just the remains there, um, scavenge remains. 463 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: But he recognizes his boy's hair on a dried scalp 464 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: on his head, and so he knows what child is 465 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: his and sits with him and weeps with him in 466 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: his arms in the rain. And then here's something that 467 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: doesn't sound right to him, and realizes there are Indians 468 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: coming and has to slip off into the night to 469 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: get away. Uh, I'm a father losing a child. It's 470 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: just like you can't begin to imagine it. But these 471 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: people live so close to death that sometimes you think 472 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: that they had to have been immune to it. Right 473 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: if you watch Western's righteous people shooting people all the 474 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: time and like, you know, no one cares and they're ambivalent. Um, 475 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: maybe there was some of that, But that he had, 476 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: like that deep emotion you know, shows that like they 477 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: felt all that stuff. He was human like anybody did. 478 00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: And the thought of a father in the rain himself 479 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: cradling like the wolf scavenged body of his child and 480 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: then slipping off into the night, Um, oh, it's haunting. Man. Well, 481 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: I think what you've tapped into there is that with 482 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: these superhero disneyfied characters that we've made of some of 483 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: these people like Boone, we we lose the fact that 484 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: they are human. That's lost somewhere inside of that story, 485 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: and that when you see some of these things that 486 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: he did. And I think this is where the real 487 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: Boon is better than the myth of Boone, because as 488 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: I've learned about his life, what I'm most impressed with 489 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: is him as a as a human. I introduced you 490 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: to Mr Robert Morgan robustly on part one, but in 491 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: case you missed it, he's a heck of a guy. 492 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: He wrote one of the most famous Boone biographies in history, 493 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: simply titled Boone. You should probably check it out. Born 494 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: in Appalachia in the nineteen forties, he spent his life 495 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: writing about the people of the mountains. He's a New 496 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: York Times bestselling author and poet. He's quite the catch 497 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: for a hillbilly podcast like this one. Here, it's an 498 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: honor again to bring you Mr Morgan. So, the Cumberland 499 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: Gap is this like small topographic feature that if you 500 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: were looking across the topographic map of North America, you 501 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't pick it out as this place that was really 502 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: significant in American history, but it it became very significant. 503 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: It's significant for the United States, but it's also significant 504 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: for Boone. Can you explain for us why it was 505 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: so significant specifically for Daniel Boone. Well, it's the topography. 506 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: It makes it so important to have this chain of mountains, 507 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: the Cumberlands, and they're hard to cross, particularly for the 508 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: no roads and no trails are always none. And for 509 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: about two hundred years, English speaking settlers had kind of 510 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: been trapped on the eastern side of these mountains. So 511 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: to get to the middle ground, the Great meadow. They 512 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: needed an easier way than just crossing one row of 513 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: mountains after another after another. There were other gaps. Pound 514 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: Gap farther north was away in through the Cumberlands into 515 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: the Cumberland Plateau, but it wasn't as good as as 516 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: a Cumberland Gap, which had been used for thousands of 517 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: years by by the Indians. They had a name for it. 518 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: They called it wasi Oda, meaning the deer path, the 519 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: deer trail, and uh no secret to the Indians. They 520 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: had known about it for a long time. But getting 521 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: into Kentucky was an enormously important thing. As it turned out. 522 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: You wouldn't think so, really, but they needed a way 523 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: into the middle Ground, into the blue Grass because that 524 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 1: was the opening really to the West, to what we 525 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: call the Middle West. You could get to it by 526 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: coming down the Ohio River, but you had to go 527 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: way up there to Pittsburgh that area to get on 528 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: the river. And it was very dangerous to come down 529 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: the river because you had Indians on both sides, and 530 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: many were killed coming down that river. But there was 531 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: very few Indians in Kentucky. That's why it seemed to appealing. 532 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: It that seemed like a miracle there were no Indian 533 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: villages there in this vast area of the Bluegrass. Now 534 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 1: why would that be? That was very interesting. It was 535 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: a mystery had but a very wonderful mystery to explorers. Uh. Well, 536 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: there is a reason, the several reasons. But there had 537 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: been an enormous fur war early in the eighteenth century 538 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 1: between Indians and the French for control of what we 539 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: called the blue Grass. Everybody wanted it, and the Iroquois 540 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: had one at this huge confederation of the Iroquois way 541 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: up here in New York actually, but they traveled a 542 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: long way and that was their buffalo hunting ground. They 543 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: forbade the other Indians for building villages there. But it 544 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: wasn't just the Iroquois and the other and everybody wanted 545 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: a Cherokees wanted it, the Mingoes wanted the Delawares. But 546 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: because it was so fought over, it was called the 547 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: dark and bloody ground. Now that's not what Kentucky means. 548 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: Kentuck Key is made from two Iroquois words meaning the 549 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: flat land, the level land. There have been many names 550 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: for the area of Kentucky. For a long time, people 551 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,320 Speaker 1: thought that's what Kentucky meant, the dark and bloody ground. 552 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: They had heard that, but the Iroquois had named it 553 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 1: something a little more peaceable, Kentucky. And why would the 554 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,439 Speaker 1: white people have called it by that Iroquois name. I 555 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: think they had heard the Cherokees use it. And there's 556 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,399 Speaker 1: something so beautiful about Kentucky, those double case sounds. Yeah, 557 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: the actual word itself. Once you've heard it, you just 558 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: want to say it. You know, it's like poetry. It's 559 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: sweet on the tongue. And you could have called it 560 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: as the Shawnees did, escu parcaiki. You could call it 561 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: kentu key and and we can see what went out. 562 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: But Cumberland Gap was so important because coming from the 563 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: eastern colonies, from the Carolina's, from Tennessee, that was the 564 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 1: way in. It was a fairly easy way. Once you've 565 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,720 Speaker 1: found it, you followed the warriors path, and you're looking 566 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 1: at these absolutely forbidding cliffs a boon or somebody in 567 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: the Adventures of Colonel Daniel Boone said they're like the 568 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: ruins of Palmyra. And people want how did Dan Daniel 569 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: Boone ever hear about the ruins of Palmira. Well, Daniel 570 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,840 Speaker 1: Boone was surprisingly educated, and sometimes he loved to read, 571 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: and he loved to read history. He had a fabulous memory. 572 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: He could remember topography. He'd ever seen a place, he 573 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: would remember it. And he had a gift for language 574 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: and an ability to talk the language of whoever he 575 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 1: was talking to, that ability to blend in and among 576 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: these backwoodsmen, he could talk rough. When he met better 577 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,360 Speaker 1: educated people, he could talk like a better educated person. 578 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 1: You know, is that that that mirror? That language mirror 579 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: he was with code switching? Absolutely, it was. It was 580 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 1: a kind of you know, chameleon ability. And I think 581 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: some people think that was put in there by Philson, 582 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: but it may have been. But I think Boone was 583 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: perfectly capable of coming up with a phrase he had 584 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: read or heard, uh and saying they were like the 585 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: ruins of Palmyra. Steve gave a quick overview of Boone's 586 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: first trip into Kentucky. But I'd like to let Daniel 587 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: tell you what happened. What I thought. The mystery of 588 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: Boone is that we never heard about his life directly 589 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: from him. If you remember the chapter in John Philson's 590 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 1: book titled The Adventures of Colonel Daniel Boone, the one 591 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: that made him famous, was a first person account of 592 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: what Boone told Philson. However, it's disputed. Remember how the 593 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: interview took place when Daniel was fifty years old. When 594 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: you hear the style of language, it makes you wonder 595 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: how much of this first person account was really from 596 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: Boone or is it in the young writer's interpretation of 597 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: what he said. Philson was around thirty years old when 598 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: he wrote this. Lastly, and most importantly, Daniel Boone is 599 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: verified to have said quote true, every word true, regarding 600 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: Philson's interviews and what he wrote. However, Nathan Boone, Daniel 601 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: Boone's youngest son, who Lyman Draper interviewed, said quote, I 602 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: feel confident that Philson took many liberties and made not 603 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: a few misinterpretations in the narrative, either purposefully or unintentionally. 604 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: I think their frequency can only be explained by supposing 605 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: that my father narrated his Kentucky adventures to Philson, who 606 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: wrote them down from memory at some subsequent period. Much 607 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: of the language is not my father's. End of court, 608 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: I'll let you be the judge of whether you believe 609 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: Daniel or his son Nathan. These are the words that 610 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: catapulted Boone into global fame, As recorded by Philson. It 611 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: was on the first of May in the year seventeen 612 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: sixty nine, that I resigned my domestic happiness for a 613 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 1: time and left my family in peaceable habitation on the 614 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: Yadkin River in North Carolina to wander through the wilderness 615 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: of America in quest of the country of Kentucky. In 616 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: company with John Finley, John Stewart, Joseph Holden, James Money, 617 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: and William cool we proceeded successfully, and after a long 618 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: and fatiguing journey through a mountainous wilderness in a westward direction, 619 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: on the seventh day of June following, we found ourselves 620 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: on Red River, where John Finlay had formerly been trading 621 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: with Indians, and from the top of an eminence saw 622 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: with pleasure the beautiful level of Kentucky. Here let me 623 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,439 Speaker 1: observe that for some time we had experienced the most 624 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: uncomfortable weather. As a pre libation of our future sufferings. 625 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,360 Speaker 1: At this place, we encamped and made a shelter to 626 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: defend us from the inclement season, and began to hunt 627 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: the country. We found everywhere abundance of wild beasts of 628 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: all sorts through this vast forest. The buffaloes were more 629 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: frequent than I had seen cattle in the settlements, browsing 630 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 1: on the leaves of the cane, and cropping the herbage 631 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: on those sense of plains, fearless because ignorant of the 632 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: violence of man. Sometimes we saw hundreds in a drobe, 633 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: and the numbers about the salt springs were amazing. In 634 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: this forest the habitation of beasts of every kind natural 635 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: to America. We practiced hunting with great success until the 636 00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: twenty second day of December. Following this day, John Stewart 637 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: and I had a pleasing ramble, but fortune changed the 638 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: scene and the close of it we had passed through 639 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: a great forest on which stood myriads of trees, some 640 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: gay with blossoms, others rich with fruits. Nature here was 641 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: a series of wonders and a fund of delight. Here 642 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,440 Speaker 1: she displayed her ingenuity and industry in a variety of 643 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: flowers and fruits, beautifully colored, elegantly shaped, and charmingly flavored. 644 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:54,360 Speaker 1: And we were diverted with innumerable animals presenting themselves perpetually 645 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,439 Speaker 1: to our view. In the decline of the day, near 646 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: the Kentucky River, as we ascended the brow of the 647 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: small hill, a number of Indians rushed out of the 648 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: thick cane break upon us and made us prisoners. The 649 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: time of our sorrow was now arrived, and the scene 650 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,960 Speaker 1: fully opened. The Indians plundered of us what we had 651 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: and kept us in confinement seven days, treating us with 652 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 1: common Indian usage. During this time we discovered no uneasiness 653 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,920 Speaker 1: or desire to escape, which made them less suspicious of us. 654 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: But in the dead of night, as we lay in 655 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: a thick cane break by a large fire, when sleep 656 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: had locked up their senses, my situation not disposing me 657 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,839 Speaker 1: for rest, I touched my companion and gently awoke him. 658 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: We improved this favorable opportunity and departed, leaving them to 659 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: take their rest, and speedily directed our course towards our 660 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: old camp, but found it plundered, and the company dispersed 661 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 1: and gone home. About this time, my brother, Squire Boone, 662 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: with another adventure, who came to explore the country shortly 663 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,240 Speaker 1: after us, was wandering through the forest, determined to find 664 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: me if possible, and accidentally found our camp. Notwithstanding the 665 00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: unfortunate circumstances of our company and our dangerous situation as 666 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: surrounded with hostile Indians, are meeting so fortunately and the 667 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: wilderness made us reciprocally sensible of the utmost satisfaction. So 668 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: much does friendship triumph over misfortune, that sorrows and sufferings 669 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: vanish at the meeting not only of real friends, but 670 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: of the most distant acquaintances, and substitutes happiness in their room. 671 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 1: Soon after this, my companion in captivity, John Stewart, was 672 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: killed by the Indians, and the man that came with 673 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: my brother returned home by himself. We were then in 674 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: a dangerous, helpless situation, exposed daily to perils and death 675 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: amongst Indians and wild beasts, not a white man in 676 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 1: the country, but ourselves. Thus situated many hundred miles from 677 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: our families in the howling wilderness, I believe you would 678 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: have equally enjoyed the happiness we experienced. I often observed 679 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: to my brother. You see now how little nature requires 680 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,919 Speaker 1: to be satisfied. Felicity, the companion of content, is rather 681 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: found in our own breasts than in the enjoyment of 682 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: external things. And I firmly believe it requires but a 683 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: little philosophy to make a man happy in whatever state 684 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: he is. This consists in a full resignation of the 685 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: will of providence and a resigned soul finds pleasure in 686 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:36,319 Speaker 1: a path strewed with briars and thorns. We continued, not 687 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,239 Speaker 1: in a state of indolence, but hunted every day, and 688 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: prepared a little cottage to defend us from the winter storms. 689 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: We remain there undisturbed during the winter, and on the 690 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,720 Speaker 1: first day of May seventeen seventy, my brother returned home 691 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 1: to the settlement by himself for a new recruit of 692 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:57,800 Speaker 1: horses and ammunition, leaving me by myself without bread, salt, 693 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: or sugar, without company of my fellow creatures, or even 694 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,319 Speaker 1: a horse or dog. I confess I never before was 695 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: under greater necessity of exercising philosophy and fortitude. A few 696 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: days I passed uncomfortably. The idea of a beloved wife 697 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: and family, and their anxiety upon the account of my 698 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 1: absence and exposed situation, made sensible impressions on my heart. 699 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: A thousand dreadful apprehensions presented themselves to my view, and 700 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: had undoubtedly disposed me to melancholy if further indulged. One 701 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: day I undertook a tour through the country, and the 702 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: diversity and beauties of nature I met within this charming 703 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 1: season expelled every gloomy and vexatious thought. Just at the 704 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: close of the day, as gentle gales retired and left 705 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,799 Speaker 1: the place to the disposal of a profound calm, not 706 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: a breeze shook the most tremulous leaf. I had gained 707 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,400 Speaker 1: the summit of a commanding ridge, and looking round with 708 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,440 Speaker 1: astonishing delight, held the ample planes and the beauteous tracks below. 709 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: On the other hand, I surveyed the famous River Ohio 710 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: that rolled in silent dignity, marking the western boundary of 711 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: Kentucky with inconceivable grandeur. At a vast distance, I beheld 712 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: the mountains lift their venerable brows and penetrate the clouds. 713 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: All things were still. I kindled a fire near a 714 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: fountain of sweet water, and feasted on the loin of 715 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 1: a buck, which a few hours before I had killed. 716 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 1: The sullen shades of night soon overspread the whole hemisphere, 717 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: and the earth seemed to gasp after the hovering moisture. 718 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: My roving excursion this day had fatigued my body and 719 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: diverted my imagination. I laid me down to sleep, and 720 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,439 Speaker 1: I woke not until the sun had chased away the night. 721 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,760 Speaker 1: I continued this tour, and in a few days explored 722 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 1: a considerable part of the country. Each day equally pleased 723 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: as the first, I returned again to my old camp, 724 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 1: which was not disturbed herb to my absence. I did 725 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,040 Speaker 1: not confine my lodging to it, but often reposed in 726 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,120 Speaker 1: the thick cane brakes to avoid the Indians, who I 727 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: believe often visited my camp. But fortunately for me, in 728 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 1: my absence, in this torment with fear, which is vain 729 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,839 Speaker 1: if no danger comes, and if it does, only augments 730 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:23,239 Speaker 1: the pain, it was my happiness to be destitute of 731 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: this afflicting passion, with which I had the greatest reason 732 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: to be affected. The prowling wolves diverted my nocturnal hours 733 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: with perpetual howlings, and the various species of animals in 734 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: the vast forest in the daytime were continually in my view. 735 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: Thus I was surrounded with plenty in the midst of want. 736 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,000 Speaker 1: I was happy in the midst of dangers and inconveniences. 737 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: In such a diversity, it was impossible I should be 738 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: disposed to melancholy. No populous city, with all the varieties 739 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: of commerce and stately structures, could afford so much pleasure 740 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: to my mind as the beauties of nature I found here. Thus, 741 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: through an uninterpreted scene of Sylvan pleasures, I spent the 742 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: time until the twenty seventh day of July following, when 743 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: my brother to my great Hilocoity met me according to 744 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: appointment at our old camp. Shortly after, we left this place, 745 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: not thinking it safe to stay there any longer, and 746 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: proceeded to Cumberland River, reconnoitering that part of the country 747 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: until March seventeen seventy one, in giving names to the 748 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: different waters. Soon after, I returned home to my family 749 00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: with the determination to bring them as soon as possible 750 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,919 Speaker 1: to live in Kentucky, which I esteemed a second paradise, 751 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,520 Speaker 1: at risk of my life and fortune. End of passage. 752 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: This is a wild story of Boone's trip into Kentucky. 753 00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,920 Speaker 1: It's important to remember that Pilson's biographical chapter is a 754 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,799 Speaker 1: big part of what made Boon world famous us. It's 755 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: interesting to think about why there's lots of stuff inside 756 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,360 Speaker 1: of there that was new to the thought process of Americans. 757 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 1: In Mr Morgan's book, he made some insightful commentary on 758 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: the influences in Boone's life and how the old Woodsman 759 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: viewed his life. This is an excerpt from Mr Morgan's 760 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:28,160 Speaker 1: book talking about John Filson's chapter. The style is that 761 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,400 Speaker 1: of a quest narrative of a night errant in search 762 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: of a paradise, but it fits the adventure narrative also 763 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 1: as popularized by Defoe in the Robinson Crusoe. After the 764 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,239 Speaker 1: Bible and The Pilgrim's Progress, Robinson Crusoe was perhaps the 765 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,760 Speaker 1: most widely read book in North America in the eighteenth century. 766 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,200 Speaker 1: Published in seventeen nineteen, the book, often called the first 767 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,960 Speaker 1: novel in English, went through printing after printing and addition 768 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: after addition. Thought by the public to be a factual memoir, 769 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,600 Speaker 1: not a work of action, Robinson Crusoe was modeled on 770 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,279 Speaker 1: the true account of the Adventures of the Scottish sailor 771 00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: Alexander Selkirk, as published by Richard Steele in seventeen thirteen. 772 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,720 Speaker 1: Though largely unnoticed by scholars and historians writing about Boone, 773 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: defosed novel deeply influenced the way Boone told his story 774 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,920 Speaker 1: and the way Philson wrote down the narrative. Crusoe's story 775 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: is told in the first person and not only describes 776 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,239 Speaker 1: one man's heroic struggle for survival in the wilderness, but 777 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: is interspersed with moral meditations on the growth of character, humility, 778 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,800 Speaker 1: and wisdom. After he finds himself alone on the desert island, 779 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: Crusoe says, as my reason began to master my despondency. 780 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,080 Speaker 1: I began to comfort myself as well as I could, 781 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,680 Speaker 1: and to set the good against the evil, that I 782 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,960 Speaker 1: might have something to distinguish my case from worse. Describing 783 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 1: the period when he was alone in Kentucky after the 784 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,120 Speaker 1: departure of his brother Squire from North Carolina in seventeen seventy, 785 00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:05,440 Speaker 1: Boone tells us I was by myself without bread, salt, 786 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,759 Speaker 1: or sugar, without company of my fellow creatures, or even 787 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,439 Speaker 1: a horse or dog. And I never before was under 788 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:17,120 Speaker 1: greater necessity of exercising philosophy and fortitude. Much of Crusoe's 789 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 1: story is taken up with the details of his survival, 790 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: how he built a shelter, enlarged his cave, planted grain, hunted, 791 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: But alternating with the descriptions and narrative are passages of 792 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:32,279 Speaker 1: philosophical comment quote, let this stand as a direction from 793 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 1: the experience of the most miserable of all conditions in 794 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: the world that we always find in it something to 795 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,560 Speaker 1: comfort ourselves from and to set in the description of 796 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: good and evil. On the credit side of the account, 797 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 1: Boone also describes in some detail the way he and 798 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:51,320 Speaker 1: his brother Squire struggled in the wilderness, threatened by Indians, loneliness, 799 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,120 Speaker 1: the unknown, and then, like Crusoe, he will turn from 800 00:51:55,239 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: narrative to philosophical observation. Thus, situated many hundred miles from 801 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,759 Speaker 1: our families in the Howling wilderness, I believe you have 802 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:08,640 Speaker 1: equally enjoyed the happiness we experience. I often observed my brother. 803 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,920 Speaker 1: You see how little nature requires to be satisfied. Philson 804 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 1: and Boone understood, as did the Foe, that even an 805 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 1: adventure story had to make a moral point. Besides many 806 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:26,840 Speaker 1: parallels and technical details about survival, landscape, solitude, their similarities 807 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:34,960 Speaker 1: in the passages of meditation. M M. It's super interesting 808 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: to know that humans respond in predictable ways. Two stories 809 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:42,120 Speaker 1: told in the right way, whether conscious or unconscious. Boone 810 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: and his biographer knew this, and they made their narrative 811 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: like one of the best selling stories of the time period. 812 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:55,239 Speaker 1: That's some legit branding from the old backwoodsman. I want 813 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: to switch the conversation, however, back to Native Americans, and 814 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: Mr Morgan has some interesting tidbits to share about the 815 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,480 Speaker 1: Boone family and the Native American influence on them, and 816 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: a couple others, and Abraham Lincoln, the grandfather of the 817 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: Great Emancipator, is in this group. Boon also knew the 818 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: Hanks family something, so Abraham Lincoln's grandfather went with Boone 819 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:29,600 Speaker 1: to Kentucky exactly that second second, big much UH commerce 820 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: communication between the Lincoln family and the Boone family all 821 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,600 Speaker 1: the way back to Pennsylvania and then in Virginia. They've 822 00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,280 Speaker 1: known each other for a long time, and UH important 823 00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,320 Speaker 1: to remember that, because I think this is very essential 824 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: to understanding Lincoln, that he was a man of the 825 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,240 Speaker 1: of the frontier of the UH, and that his style 826 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:59,240 Speaker 1: was informed his politics were informed by the way Indian 827 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:06,280 Speaker 1: chiefs did things. Famous situation Chase, Secretary of State, Sword 828 00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:10,680 Speaker 1: says to the president, Mr President, what is your policy? 829 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,600 Speaker 1: You've got to tell us your policy, and Lincoln says, 830 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,360 Speaker 1: my policy is to have no policy. This is exactly 831 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 1: the way Indian chiefs the last moment they wouldn't wouldn't 832 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 1: tell you what they wanted to do. He picked that up, 833 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,439 Speaker 1: you know in the backwoods. Uh, that's that's the way 834 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,239 Speaker 1: you act as a leader. There's so many ways that 835 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 1: Indigenous people, American Indians, influenced American culture, and that's one 836 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,319 Speaker 1: of them. And you just describe a great example of 837 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: how Native American culture has influenced the American identity. Are 838 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,319 Speaker 1: there other examples of that? Well? The most famous is 839 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:48,040 Speaker 1: the fact that the Articles of Confederation Continental Congress were 840 00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: based on the Iroquois Constitution. Revival preaching. A lot of 841 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:58,280 Speaker 1: the famous revival preachers were part Indian. Oral Roberts was Choctaw, 842 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,200 Speaker 1: for instance. The rats preacher in American history was Decompson. 843 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: He could mesmerize, he'd combined the Indian beliefs the Christian 844 00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:11,120 Speaker 1: beliefs and could sway anybody. And I think American oratory 845 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 1: of the nineteenth century was really influenced by these great 846 00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,960 Speaker 1: Indian leaders. For their their eloquence, the oratory was that 847 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:22,720 Speaker 1: was their leadership. Sam Houston could didn't move anybody. He'd 848 00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,160 Speaker 1: been adopted by the Cherokees. He was at Cherokee. He 849 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:33,360 Speaker 1: was raven of the Hawassi Cherokees. On the topic of 850 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,240 Speaker 1: Native Americans I want to continue to look at Boone's 851 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: relationship with them and restate that Boone was boom because 852 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:46,320 Speaker 1: of Native Americans. With no Native Americans, there's no Daniel 853 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: Boone national archetype that we know. They seem to have 854 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,799 Speaker 1: more influence on him than white culture. Here's Steve and 855 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,840 Speaker 1: I discussing this very thing. He had a really unique 856 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: relationship with Indians in that he was you know, at 857 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: one point in his life he was adopted by the 858 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:09,920 Speaker 1: Shawnee as a son of blackfish, and he always had 859 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: this like seemingly deep respect for Native Americans. But just 860 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,160 Speaker 1: the nature of the times and where he was at 861 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: and what he was doing, he ended up, you know, 862 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,399 Speaker 1: being in conflict with him at different times, many time 863 00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: that you have to analyze them. I think you have 864 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,240 Speaker 1: to analyze that aspect of him in context of his peers, 865 00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: and compared to his peers, he had a very lenient 866 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,279 Speaker 1: you know, compared to long Hunters or compared to other 867 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,839 Speaker 1: military other soldiers of the time, seems to have had 868 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:47,320 Speaker 1: a very tolerant, rather progressive view of of relations between 869 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,840 Speaker 1: the Euro Americans in the Native Americans, but at the 870 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,839 Speaker 1: same time did a tremendous amount in some respects, one 871 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,720 Speaker 1: could say like, unintentionally but knowingly did a tremendous amount 872 00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,759 Speaker 1: to displace those people, but understood the loss that he 873 00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 1: was inflicting. Dr Taylor Keene is a graduate of Dartmouth 874 00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,360 Speaker 1: College and has a couple of graduate degrees from Harvard. 875 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,640 Speaker 1: He's currently a professor in the Business School of Crichton 876 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:21,800 Speaker 1: University in Omaha, Nebraska. Most relevant for this conversation, he's 877 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,760 Speaker 1: a member of the Cherokee in Omaha Nation. He considers 878 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 1: himself a citizen historian of the Cherokee Nation. I wanted 879 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: to ask him about the other side of the story 880 00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:43,120 Speaker 1: of the Cumberland Gap. Meet Professor Keen. Professor Keen, I 881 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,560 Speaker 1: want to uh. I want to tell you an experience 882 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,439 Speaker 1: that I had while I was in Kentucky. I took 883 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 1: my family to the Cumberland Gap. So the Cumberland Gap 884 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:59,760 Speaker 1: sits on the border of Tennessee, Virginia, and Kentucky. And 885 00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,640 Speaker 1: the way that we came through the gap was from 886 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: the Virginia and Tennessee side, So we came from east 887 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 1: to west. And as I've been thinking about this for 888 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:15,200 Speaker 1: so long, I was excited and you kind of drive 889 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,360 Speaker 1: on this Highway and you can see the Cumberland Gap. 890 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: And as I'm there with my boys in the car 891 00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:23,760 Speaker 1: and my wife, I'm I'm talking to them about how, 892 00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, this is what Daniel Boone saw. This is 893 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,760 Speaker 1: exactly what he saw minus the buildings and civilization when 894 00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,280 Speaker 1: he came through here. And we we went through the 895 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 1: Cumberland Gap from from east to west. We stayed in Middlesboro, 896 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 1: Kentucky that night and that evening we decided we were 897 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:47,000 Speaker 1: going to drive back through the gap. And when I 898 00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:51,880 Speaker 1: was driving from west to east, I just had the 899 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:57,320 Speaker 1: thought that most likely the first humans to ever walk 900 00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: through that gap came from west to east. Most likely 901 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,720 Speaker 1: no one really knows where the indigenous people of North 902 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:09,640 Speaker 1: America exactly came from, but the best evidence right now, 903 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: I would say what they came from the west and 904 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: moved into the east. And it was really kind of 905 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: a moving thought because as a as a American, I'm 906 00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:25,280 Speaker 1: thinking about the European Americans that came from east to west, 907 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,480 Speaker 1: but the indigenous people's they would have found that thousands 908 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,640 Speaker 1: of years before before Americans did, and the French did, 909 00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,360 Speaker 1: and the white Europeans, and it was and that's what 910 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,120 Speaker 1: got me on this train of thought of you know, 911 00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,280 Speaker 1: we celebrate this path, you know, people passing through this gap, 912 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:47,040 Speaker 1: but for the indigenous people of this country, of this continent, 913 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:52,880 Speaker 1: it wasn't something necessarily to be celebrated. And that's why 914 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you. I just wanted to 915 00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:01,200 Speaker 1: get your your perspective and just talk about ultimately the 916 01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:06,520 Speaker 1: impact of of Europeans coming through the Cumberland Gap and 917 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:10,000 Speaker 1: then just settling the rest of North America. I think 918 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:14,040 Speaker 1: that's a fantastic intro um. And that's the big question, 919 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,360 Speaker 1: is it not? How long ago we're the first humans 920 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,600 Speaker 1: to see that? And that's a mind mind boggling question 921 01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,880 Speaker 1: for sure. The theory to which you are indicating is 922 01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the bearing straight theory. Correct, there's a couple of them 923 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:33,360 Speaker 1: I here of, but that has an indelible impact on Americans. 924 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:39,600 Speaker 1: Perceptions of indigenous peoples are ancient Cherokee stories. Um say 925 01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: that we come from an island in the east, meaning 926 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:47,720 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, and that we were on a island that 927 01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:52,960 Speaker 1: had volcanoes and big turtles. That's actually a very important 928 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:58,040 Speaker 1: part of Cherokee cosmology, those those turtles. But that makes 929 01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,000 Speaker 1: it sound like it's somewhere around the Galapa Ghost or 930 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,680 Speaker 1: something like that. And then our stories say that that 931 01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: that was where we had massive temples and an an 932 01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:15,360 Speaker 1: earlier golden age that eventually water overcame the island and 933 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,760 Speaker 1: we had to flee, and that's where our stories of 934 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,480 Speaker 1: Grandmother Spider carried our one ember from our one great fire, 935 01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: and that we migrated into what would be South America. 936 01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,840 Speaker 1: And the Cherokee is the only tribe that utilize blow 937 01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:38,000 Speaker 1: dart guns as hunting weapons as well as double walled basketry. 938 01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,280 Speaker 1: And so that's uh an imprint of our time in 939 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,360 Speaker 1: South America. And then that we migrated up over the 940 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,160 Speaker 1: Great Old Man, which is the Mississippi River, and then 941 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: eventually found ourselves up near the Synecas, because that's our 942 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:58,320 Speaker 1: most closely related tribal groups. And uh, eventually we were 943 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,320 Speaker 1: forced down south into what is more often than not 944 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,680 Speaker 1: viewed as you know, the Cherokee homelands, but you know, 945 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,760 Speaker 1: we were probably immigrants to that area as well. You 946 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,280 Speaker 1: can look to the other five civilized tribes, the Creeks 947 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,240 Speaker 1: and the Choctaws and the Chickasaws, and and uh and 948 01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:18,600 Speaker 1: the Seminoles, and that was that was their homeland. But 949 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,880 Speaker 1: Cherokee certainly occupied it. The question is for how long. 950 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,080 Speaker 1: So when we're talking about things like the Cumberland Gap, 951 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 1: it h time as a continuum makes it really really messy, 952 01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:35,560 Speaker 1: regardless of who discovered that, and of course will will 953 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,240 Speaker 1: never know. Um, most Americans would cite that of his 954 01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,400 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone, who val signs. I think indigenous people's had 955 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,200 Speaker 1: a bigger influence on on Daniel Boone and other frontiersman 956 01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:54,200 Speaker 1: than um what is more popularly recognized. And little things 957 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,680 Speaker 1: like him basing the turkey with his own juices and 958 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,160 Speaker 1: something that you know, we as Americans just take for commonplace. 959 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: But um, I was probably you know, thousands year old 960 01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,440 Speaker 1: indigenous practice with you know, with those those great birds 961 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,880 Speaker 1: that have been here for a very long time, very 962 01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,960 Speaker 1: very important in tribal cultures. Talk to me about the 963 01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,720 Speaker 1: long term, like high level overview of what happened, what 964 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:24,920 Speaker 1: that started to the indigenous people when when white Europeans 965 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,480 Speaker 1: came through that gap. Well it's um, there's one aspect 966 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:34,520 Speaker 1: of Indigenous history in the Americas that you can't get around. 967 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:40,760 Speaker 1: That's the issue of smallpox and disease, primarily smallpox. However 968 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,400 Speaker 1: it got here many scholars would theorize that it came 969 01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: from the Spanish and probably the Spanish conquistadors, and whether 970 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:52,280 Speaker 1: or not it came directly from human contact or dogs 971 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,800 Speaker 1: or horses. Of course, in these days we all understand 972 01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,760 Speaker 1: the basics of a pandemic. It doesn't doesn't matter how 973 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,640 Speaker 1: it got here. What does matter was the impact on 974 01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:06,080 Speaker 1: indigenous peoples without exception, across all of the America's whether 975 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:09,480 Speaker 1: that's what is now Canada and the United States, Central America, 976 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:14,760 Speaker 1: South America, the indigenous peoples were decimated by smallpox. Most 977 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:20,560 Speaker 1: conservative estimates are around seventy but the bulk of the 978 01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 1: data that we do have is eight five to ninety 979 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:28,000 Speaker 1: five decimation death rates from smallpox. And so we have 980 01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:33,560 Speaker 1: these fascinating documented encounters with indigenous peoples from say the 981 01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:38,760 Speaker 1: Spanish conquistadors and massive numbers tribal peoples in the Amazon 982 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,800 Speaker 1: Meso America. You can pick your conquistador and follow each story, 983 01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,600 Speaker 1: but the stories pretty much the same. They were outnumbered 984 01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:52,280 Speaker 1: in many cases, pushed back, repelled or defeated, came back 985 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,400 Speaker 1: with large armies a few years later and found everyone 986 01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:00,000 Speaker 1: gone m hm. And so it's that's that's the story. 987 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,320 Speaker 1: Worried that. I think is so hard for people to 988 01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:07,560 Speaker 1: get their minds wrapped around. Think of your closest friends 989 01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:12,760 Speaker 1: and family and there's only five of you left. So 990 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:16,400 Speaker 1: it at the least it, you know, could only have 991 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:23,479 Speaker 1: detrimentally impacted tribal people's, whether that's a base of head 992 01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,040 Speaker 1: men and warriors, which is crucial at such times, or 993 01:05:27,160 --> 01:05:32,120 Speaker 1: than the knowledge of agricultural life ways. Uh, of the 994 01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: knowledge was gone. So in many cases we were kind 995 01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:41,600 Speaker 1: of faced with almost a cultural amnesia. And so you know, 996 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,560 Speaker 1: if you were a child that survived that, no longer 997 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:49,640 Speaker 1: do you have of those teachers and storytellers. You have 998 01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:51,960 Speaker 1: five and they have five percent of what was left. 999 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:56,960 Speaker 1: So you have this huge gap and made it an 1000 01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:02,240 Speaker 1: easy story for Euro Americans coming to America to view 1001 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,320 Speaker 1: it as a vast wilderness when in reality, you know, 1002 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,640 Speaker 1: it's been populated for over ten thousand years for sure, 1003 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:13,600 Speaker 1: and arguably twenty to thirty thousand years, so there there 1004 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,840 Speaker 1: was no wilderness. There was only land in the animals 1005 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,720 Speaker 1: and whether one knew them or not. Yeah, I'd look 1006 01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:23,280 Speaker 1: at things like the Cumberland Gap and I think easy 1007 01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,040 Speaker 1: ten thousand years, maybe fifteen, and if we go into 1008 01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the number of generations of people that is, it's just 1009 01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:35,360 Speaker 1: mind boggling when we think of American history just at 1010 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:40,000 Speaker 1: a surface level, you think of wars with indigenous people 1011 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,240 Speaker 1: that would have killed Native Americans. I mean, you know, 1012 01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:47,720 Speaker 1: musket balls and whatnot, But really that that's not the culprit. 1013 01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,080 Speaker 1: That's not the main culprit. The main culprit was disease. 1014 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:56,760 Speaker 1: This hidden, this hidden warfare that came in just from contact, 1015 01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:59,720 Speaker 1: which is just really such a bizarre thing when you 1016 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,800 Speaker 1: think about it, because how how Yeah, I don't know, 1017 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there's science behind how These white 1018 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:11,000 Speaker 1: Europeans were coming from tightly grouped, dwelling places of people, 1019 01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,560 Speaker 1: so disease was spread around, and these indigenous people were 1020 01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,720 Speaker 1: living these healthy lives out in the wild, so they 1021 01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:21,400 Speaker 1: didn't have disease. That's the biggest irony because nearly all 1022 01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:26,439 Speaker 1: of these pandemics, as it were, smallpox, etcetera, all came 1023 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:32,160 Speaker 1: from domesticated animals. So smallpox is a derivation of cow pox, 1024 01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:35,560 Speaker 1: and that's why there was a greater immunity towards it 1025 01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,160 Speaker 1: with European populations. They were certainly not immune. When you 1026 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,280 Speaker 1: dig deep into American history. You see the impact on 1027 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,680 Speaker 1: even on the founding fathers themselves. You know, just a 1028 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,320 Speaker 1: personal question, Professor Keane, Like, I mean you can tell 1029 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,120 Speaker 1: from me doing a podcast series on Daniel Boone, this 1030 01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,919 Speaker 1: is a man that, like I want to celebrate. You see, 1031 01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:02,560 Speaker 1: inside the research, Boone was just a figurehead. He was 1032 01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,960 Speaker 1: just an archetype for for what Americans did. He was 1033 01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:08,600 Speaker 1: just the one that we kind of picked to be 1034 01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,800 Speaker 1: our heroes. So we're not necessarily picking on Boone, but like, 1035 01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,240 Speaker 1: how do how do you feel when we celebrate somebody 1036 01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,679 Speaker 1: like Boone? I mean, but you're an American as well. Now, 1037 01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,920 Speaker 1: I mean it's so long past, but what are your 1038 01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,520 Speaker 1: personal thoughts on that. I've just always found it fascinating. 1039 01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:26,679 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, I can I consider myself 1040 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,240 Speaker 1: a patriot, and I love our country, and I understand 1041 01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:34,080 Speaker 1: why all cultures need heroes. And so you talked a 1042 01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,920 Speaker 1: lot about branding and archetypes, and of course that's all 1043 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,040 Speaker 1: stuff in our in our field of business. So I 1044 01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:44,720 Speaker 1: understand that, and so I acknowledge that he was an icon. 1045 01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:48,760 Speaker 1: He was an archetype of that frontiersman. But I also 1046 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:54,200 Speaker 1: feel like there should be in history indigenous people's that 1047 01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:58,840 Speaker 1: he worked with, learned from spent time hunting with that 1048 01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:01,599 Speaker 1: should also be those types of heroes. And we don't 1049 01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,720 Speaker 1: know who those are, but guaranteed they were there. He 1050 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,600 Speaker 1: did have a relationship with my tribe, the Cherokees. He 1051 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:10,960 Speaker 1: did have a relationship with the Shawnees. I'm just glad 1052 01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,719 Speaker 1: that podcasts like yours today bring those aspects of history 1053 01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,200 Speaker 1: back up, because it only adds to the rich, you know, 1054 01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:22,679 Speaker 1: tapestry of really what what made those individuals people to survive? 1055 01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:30,200 Speaker 1: What an incredible perspective from Professor Keene. I want to 1056 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:33,400 Speaker 1: go back to Mr Morgan and hear what he has 1057 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:38,160 Speaker 1: to say about historical revision. I figured he's got some 1058 01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:46,160 Speaker 1: insight in modern times people have They go back into 1059 01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:52,200 Speaker 1: history and they find faults with people based upon things 1060 01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:57,120 Speaker 1: that we now know were egregious things like slavery, like people. 1061 01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,720 Speaker 1: We now know worldwide that this was a terrible thing. 1062 01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,240 Speaker 1: This is a this is a scar on humanity that 1063 01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,479 Speaker 1: we've we've been a part of this, but it but 1064 01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,880 Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem fair to go back and say 1065 01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:14,040 Speaker 1: that every human that ever was involved in that in 1066 01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,760 Speaker 1: any way was an evil person. And at the same 1067 01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:21,120 Speaker 1: time I'm I'm talking about Boon and and want to 1068 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,120 Speaker 1: give him credit for all these things, but we know 1069 01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,559 Speaker 1: there was this irony inside of his life for things 1070 01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,439 Speaker 1: that were done to Native Americans. And you know, we 1071 01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,519 Speaker 1: said that he owned a slave, and not a whole 1072 01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,960 Speaker 1: lot is known about that. Can you speak to that, 1073 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,680 Speaker 1: just kind of like your personal thoughts on how we 1074 01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:41,719 Speaker 1: can deal with that. Well, Historical revisionism is the fashion 1075 01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,960 Speaker 1: now and people want to impose on the past the 1076 01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,000 Speaker 1: values and the judgments of the present, and we should 1077 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,320 Speaker 1: keep that in mind, you know, our ideals and our 1078 01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:57,519 Speaker 1: ethics as we look at historical figures. But we said 1079 01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:02,320 Speaker 1: also be tolerant because of all human beings, and we 1080 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:07,240 Speaker 1: all make mistakes, and in the future some historian, maybe 1081 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:12,720 Speaker 1: looking at us, will so do you also, you know, 1082 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,599 Speaker 1: want to be more flexible and looking at these figures 1083 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,080 Speaker 1: and not only see what they did wrong, but to 1084 01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:21,360 Speaker 1: see what they did right. And in the case of Boon, 1085 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,280 Speaker 1: to remember why he's important. I mean, there's a reason 1086 01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,800 Speaker 1: he's so important in American culture and in fact in 1087 01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,320 Speaker 1: world culture. We should have it both ways. I think 1088 01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,800 Speaker 1: we should remember that Daniel Boone, believe it or not, 1089 01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:39,880 Speaker 1: raises a Quaker actually had slaves at least at one point, 1090 01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,919 Speaker 1: and we should remember that we tend as human beings 1091 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,880 Speaker 1: two act the way other people are acting in a 1092 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:55,160 Speaker 1: culture that probably at that time it's it's seemed okay 1093 01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:59,440 Speaker 1: because everybody was doing it. To realize that to remember 1094 01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,720 Speaker 1: that almost Jefferson owned slaves, but did he also of 1095 01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:10,639 Speaker 1: hard slavery the strange paradox to remember that Boon did 1096 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,439 Speaker 1: other things. It wasn't just owning a slave, right, So 1097 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,639 Speaker 1: it's it's possible. What you're what I'm hearing you say 1098 01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,160 Speaker 1: is that it's very possible for someone to and this 1099 01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: seems so contrary to what we here happening in society today, 1100 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,320 Speaker 1: but it is possible for someone to have parts of 1101 01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,400 Speaker 1: their life that are very honorable and noble and then 1102 01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,360 Speaker 1: maybe have one section that wasn't great, and that one 1103 01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,840 Speaker 1: section doesn't cancel out the honorable and noble. I don't 1104 01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,519 Speaker 1: think we should look at people's lives just over one issue. 1105 01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,639 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got to look at take the thing 1106 01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,240 Speaker 1: all around in a way and try to get some 1107 01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,720 Speaker 1: understanding of them as a human being with many facets 1108 01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,479 Speaker 1: at the same time, and keep in mind the values 1109 01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,920 Speaker 1: of the President. Of course that a historian is looking 1110 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,240 Speaker 1: at things through the lens of the present always and 1111 01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:10,080 Speaker 1: through their own biases and values. But you can't be 1112 01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,679 Speaker 1: much of a historian or a biographer unless you're able 1113 01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:18,400 Speaker 1: to also see things through the lens of that time. 1114 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:22,240 Speaker 1: Otherwise you will be so limited in your approach. You 1115 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:28,679 Speaker 1: have to have this sympathetic imagination or empathetic imagination, so 1116 01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:33,400 Speaker 1: you can try to find out how those people saw things. 1117 01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:38,640 Speaker 1: How did the world look to Rebecca Boon two Michael A. 1118 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,880 Speaker 1: Stoner to Simon Kenton? I mean, what were they after? 1119 01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,920 Speaker 1: What are they trying to do? Of course you can't 1120 01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,360 Speaker 1: do that perfectly, but the point of historical writing is 1121 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,120 Speaker 1: to try to imagine what this world was like, what 1122 01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:54,800 Speaker 1: had have been like to have Kentucky there? And we 1123 01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:58,759 Speaker 1: can say, oh, they destroyed the game, they bought slavery 1124 01:13:58,760 --> 01:14:02,960 Speaker 1: into Kentucky. What was Michael Stoner? What was Boon thinking 1125 01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:06,600 Speaker 1: of at that time? And they were probably think of 1126 01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:11,640 Speaker 1: this great paradise, this thing available, this thing there. I 1127 01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,559 Speaker 1: can go there, I can I can become a part 1128 01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:20,760 Speaker 1: of it. We cannot judge in our own time what 1129 01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:26,280 Speaker 1: Land meant to these scotch Irish immigrants who never had 1130 01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,559 Speaker 1: a foot of land. They could keep. What that meant 1131 01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,880 Speaker 1: to you, you know, to be able to hunt, to 1132 01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,320 Speaker 1: be able to own weapons, to have this unlimited continent 1133 01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:38,040 Speaker 1: ahead of you. And of course they did things we 1134 01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:41,360 Speaker 1: don't approve of, especially to the Indians. They weren't going 1135 01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,600 Speaker 1: to let Indians stand in the way of this, this 1136 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,040 Speaker 1: you know, new world they were trying to build. So 1137 01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,960 Speaker 1: they were far from perfect people, but they also didn't 1138 01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:57,280 Speaker 1: wonderful things and created a sense of a new country, 1139 01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:03,160 Speaker 1: a new civilization, historical relativism. I think it's something we 1140 01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:09,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't carry too far. I'm hat a bit of a 1141 01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:13,519 Speaker 1: loss while gathering my thoughts on this episode. We really 1142 01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:16,200 Speaker 1: didn't cover much of Boone's life in part one. We 1143 01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:18,680 Speaker 1: made it from his birth to his mid thirties, but 1144 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,559 Speaker 1: we're still here in his mid thirties. We dedicated this 1145 01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:26,600 Speaker 1: entire time to the Cumberland Gap because of its significance 1146 01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:33,959 Speaker 1: on Boon, Indigenous people, and America. Man. I love Daniel 1147 01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:38,160 Speaker 1: Boone and I intend to celebrate him. In most parts 1148 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:41,800 Speaker 1: of his life. Boone's passing through the Cumberland Gap was 1149 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:47,600 Speaker 1: truly a physical feat, romanticized and cherished by backwoodsman like myself, 1150 01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:52,360 Speaker 1: but it was also deeply metaphorical for America. I liked 1151 01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:56,200 Speaker 1: the tension between man and nature, a narrow mountain pass 1152 01:15:56,360 --> 01:16:00,840 Speaker 1: and this rugged dude duking it out. But I only 1153 01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:04,240 Speaker 1: love it because Boone taught us to love it. It's 1154 01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,960 Speaker 1: the story we identify with, the one we were born with, 1155 01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:13,719 Speaker 1: and that version ridiculously embodies Western thought even in its telling. 1156 01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:18,120 Speaker 1: Indigenous people didn't view their lives in conflict with nature. 1157 01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:23,680 Speaker 1: They were simply part of it. I'm speculating, but perhaps 1158 01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:27,840 Speaker 1: the Indigenous view wouldn't see humans passing through the gap 1159 01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,960 Speaker 1: as a fight against nature, but rather like the current 1160 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,000 Speaker 1: of a flooding river that couldn't be held back. The 1161 01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,360 Speaker 1: one thing that we know for certain as we look 1162 01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:43,200 Speaker 1: at human history is that civilizations rise and fall, and 1163 01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 1: very seldom is it just I suspect these are the 1164 01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,759 Speaker 1: treacherous waters will have to weigh through on this side 1165 01:16:53,200 --> 01:17:10,200 Speaker 1: of mortality. Folks, thanks for listening to this episode. You 1166 01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:12,800 Speaker 1: can hear me and the crew distill this down next 1167 01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,240 Speaker 1: week on the Bear Grease Render Podcast, And after that 1168 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:19,040 Speaker 1: we'll put out the third part of our series on 1169 01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,599 Speaker 1: Daniel Boone and we'll cover some more ground in his life. 1170 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:27,000 Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed this, share it with a buddy. Thanks 1171 01:17:27,080 --> 01:18:07,439 Speaker 1: a ton back because baby farmy caress you all for 1172 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:57,120 Speaker 1: your Rod, got Harvey, your he don snap the gap, 1173 01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:27,479 Speaker 1: the Gatcary g back holding ties are very do everything gaps. 1174 01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:54,800 Speaker 1: Readings are I'm back, Arf the Cap back, Randy r 1175 01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,599 Speaker 1: Back the Cabary Gap