1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: So Dan, before we get started today, we just wanted 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: to take a moment to let everyone know about something 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: new from Bloomberg. Do you want to hear what it is? 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Go for it? Well. Starting now, you can actually use 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: our Io s app or Bloomberg's Google Chrome extension to 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: scan any news story on any website, instantly revealing relevant 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: news and market data from Bloomberg and other sources related 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: to the companies and the people you're reading about. So really, 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: no matter where you're reading the news, you can bring 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: the power of Bloomberg's news and data with you. It's 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Download our Io s app or search for 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg extension on the Chrome Store to try it out. 13 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: Learn more at bloomberg dot com backslash lanes. Donald Trump 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: has set his sights on what many economists see as 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: an impossible goal, getting the U. S economy to grow 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: at a sustained rate of three to four percent, up 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: from the current pace of around two The President has 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 1: pledged to get there with a mix of deep tax cuts, deregulation, 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: and renegotiated trade deals. At the same time, he's talked 20 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,279 Speaker 1: about limiting immigration. That last category could prove crucial in fact, 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: while much of the developed world is stuck in a 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: low growth rut, one nation stands out because a boom 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: in immigration is fueling economic expansion. Today, on benchmark, we 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: journey all the way to New Zealand, where a flood 25 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: of immigrants has stoked torrid growth. What lessons does that 26 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: hold for the United States? Let's find out. I'm Scott 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: landman and economics editor for Bloomberg News in Washington, and 28 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm Daniel Moss, Executive editor for Global Economics at Bloomberg 29 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: in New York. So, Dan, I know this is particularly 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: difficult podcast for you to do. I am here under 31 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: dures growing up in Australia. Dan, how would you describe 32 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: the attitude of Australians towards New Zealand. Ever been to France? Yes? 33 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: I have ever heard them talk about Belgium. I don't 34 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: think so. Ever heard someone from France talk about a 35 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: resident of Quebec um No, But tell me more, I 36 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: think the listener can get the general picture. You guys 37 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: probably looked down on them. I would say that sounds 38 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: like the way you're what you're trying to say, Dan, 39 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: Is that right? Well? I wouldn't be quite so avert. Well, 40 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: on that note, since we're off to such a great start, 41 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: why don't we bring in Tracy has been putting up 42 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: with this for years. Let's bring in Tracy Withers, our 43 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: colleague in New Zealand. He's spent almost two decades covering 44 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: the economy of his native land as a reporter in Wellington. Tracey, 45 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us today, or actually it's tomorrow where 46 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: you are right? Thanks Scott Dan, how are you happy 47 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: to be here? Without getting into the details of any 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: kind of rivalry with Australia, can can you fill us 49 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 1: in a bit about New Zealand's earliest history. I think 50 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm struck by some of the similarities to the United States, 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: and that Europeans did take the land from the people 52 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: who were there first. You know, they were immigrants in 53 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: a way. How would you talk about it? Yes, Europeans 54 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: started colonizing New Zealand And the early nineteenth century, and 55 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: the British took it over in an eighteen forty or 56 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: assumed sovereignty with a treaty with the local married tribes. 57 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: Had been discovered as a nation by the Polynesian navigators 58 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: centuries before h and as you as you're saying, it's 59 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: there are those similarities. Since then, of course, you know, 60 00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: the relationship with the Marys has evolved pretty calm. Either 61 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: has been the early clashes, the still squabbles over land 62 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: entitlement stemming right the way back to that early treaty, 63 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: but mostly in modern day New Zealand, the two races 64 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: are really totally intermingled. Does that treaty tracy as opposed 65 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: to just a complete appropriation explain a lot. Well, there's 66 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: certainly different interpretations of the document which continually being tested. 67 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: As I said, in modern day New Zealand with with 68 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: issues around rights to land. This government has been settling 69 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: with some of the Mary tribes on some issues. It's 70 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: it's it underpins a lot of how New Zealand's legislation 71 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 1: has written. It is quite important that that the Mary 72 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: rights and a lot of areas are recognized and the 73 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: governments of the day except that now, as I think 74 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: most keywi's do now, as that's interpend a lot of 75 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: the history. How did we get to the point in 76 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: the present day where New Zealand has seen such a 77 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: desirable place to live, to buy property and so on. 78 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: How much did Lord of the Rings have to do 79 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: with it. But certainly I think Lord of the Rings 80 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: as a as a window into her beautiful New Zealand. 81 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 1: It can be there's lots of space here. Clearly there's 82 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: green Bush and all those sort of attributes that that 83 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: movie portrayed. But I think for a lot of people 84 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: that's a nice makes it a nice reason to visit 85 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: New Zealand. Maybe not necessarily stay. I think, you know, 86 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: you look to other things an immigrant would checklist security, 87 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 1: stable government, good public services, as we discussed, racially, pretty tolerant, 88 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: and in a country that's prepared to sort of you know, 89 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: stand its ground and stand up in the world, like 90 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: for example, our campaign to be nuclear free, which put 91 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: us offside with our alliance for the United States for 92 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: some some years. So all of those things make in 93 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: a pretty compelling case for immigrants who may be coming 94 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: from places where there's geopolitical tension and and and risks 95 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: around security. Let's talk about the economy now, since so 96 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: many people are coming to New Zealand that is helping 97 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: fuel economic growth. We've actually seen three GDP growth in 98 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: New Zealand for the last several years, kind of at 99 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: the average pace. That just happens to be the goal 100 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: that Trump administration is talking about achieving here, although a 101 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: lot of people are really skeptical about it, especially since 102 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: the attitude toward immigration has been more towards limiting than welcoming. 103 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: For New Zealand, where would where do you think the 104 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: growth rate would be without such strong immigration in the 105 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: last few years? Well, do you have corect since started? 106 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: I think the economy has grown about nine p the 107 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: population has gone up five point five A little bit 108 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: more so, the per capita GDP numbers are down in 109 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: the low one since one point one percent a year 110 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: over the last three years. So there's no doubt that 111 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: the immigration boosts has underpinned the growth through demand for housing, 112 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: spending by the new people and so forth. Given the 113 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: benefits to the New Zealand economy, and admittedly it's much 114 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: much smaller than say the UK economy, let alone the 115 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: US economy. As in New Zealand, what do you make 116 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: of the immigration debates that have royaled UK and US 117 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: politics in the past twelve months. We don't have a 118 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: difficulty with new people coming here. In a lot of 119 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: industries we need the talent from the dairy industry struggles 120 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: sometimes our biggest industry in terms of the primary production 121 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: struggles to get people to milk cows. We've got in 122 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: parts of the country Filipino families milking cows. Um massive 123 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: earthquake in christ Church and twenty eleven, A lot of 124 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: the rebuilding which is still going on was done by 125 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: British Irishman Irish people coming down and helping Chapigan building 126 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: houses and new commercial buildings. So we didn't have the 127 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: train people to do those sorts of things. And that's 128 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: still the case in a lot of more sophisticated industries 129 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: software development, film, et cetera. So um hm, we need 130 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:57,559 Speaker 1: people can bring with it tensions and put pressure and infrastructure. 131 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: UM I get. It's relative to what's happening in and 132 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: other parts of the world. It's it's not too severe. 133 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: So when you think about the number of people that 134 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: have come into New Zealand, you're you're talking about the 135 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: population has increased about five percent the last three years. 136 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: I think. Um I saw that you wrote that the 137 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: population grew about two percent in the twelve months through March, 138 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: about a hundred thousand people. But if you put that 139 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: in perspective, that kind of growth would be something like 140 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: seven million people in the United States or twenty nine 141 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: million people in China. So I can imagine the kind 142 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: of strain on resources that an influx of people would be. 143 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: How are all these people finding places to live? What's 144 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: happening to the housing markets, schools, to transportation and so on. Well, 145 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: certainly there's there's a lot of pressure on and half 146 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: of the immigrants the last year through match that was 147 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: about seventy two thousand knit immigrants, half of them a 148 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: in Aukland, which is our biggest city, and that's really 149 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: starting to heave under the strain in terms of roads, 150 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: the congestion, and the government has finally put its hand 151 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: up in terms of spending on things like schools and 152 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: other infrastructure that's needed, but it's going to take a 153 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: long time to get Auckland sorted. On the other hand, 154 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: there's there's plenty of space than other in other cities, 155 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: but Auckland being the the place where most immigrants would 156 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: see themselves more likely to get jobs, attracts a lot 157 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: of them. One of the one of the points about it, 158 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: of course, is that the net immigration figure that we 159 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: quote includes far fewer in New Zealander is actually leaving, 160 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: leaving in the country. It's always been a right of 161 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: passage for young New Zealanders to leave the country and 162 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: they still do. But the last decade, thousands of New 163 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: Zealanders would go to Australia, the big brother across the 164 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: the seed, to get jobs and say the mining industry. 165 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: And as that industry is slowed down, then those people 166 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: aren't leaving and many are coming back. So four years ago, 167 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: for example, net thirty five thousand Kiwi's New Zealand citizens 168 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: left to go to Australia. The latest year there was 169 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: so that's contributed a lot to the to the pickup 170 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: and immigration, and that the people just have not left. 171 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: It sounds like a really source part for you down 172 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: So Tracy, let's just take a step back. You've used 173 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: the term kiwi a couple of times in this broadcast. 174 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,839 Speaker 1: Can you explain what a keiwi is and what it's 175 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: shorthand for? A kiwi is is our native flightless bird, 176 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: which is nocturnal, so very few of us have actually 177 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: seen one, but we've adopted that as our shorthand. Perhaps 178 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: the world adopted it as a shorthand description for for 179 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: New Zealanders as an aside, it's also what we referred 180 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: to as our dollar, so currency traders will will know 181 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: that the key we is is one of the top 182 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: ten traded currencies. So it's just a little fairy animal 183 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: with no wings. Really, then, where are you going with 184 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: this line of questioning? Then I'm just making sure that 185 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: as this is a global podcast, everyone knows what we're 186 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,479 Speaker 1: talking about. New Zealand. Tracy has also attracted some attention 187 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: lately for a different kind of immigration, high net worth, 188 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: very very high net worth individuals setting up shop in 189 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: New Zealand, fearful of the end of the world. Can 190 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: you talk about that? I think there has been some 191 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: of that. It's inaccessible and as I said, earliest stable 192 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: government secure a place with modern facility. So as as 193 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: a I think the word bolt hole has been used 194 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: as a as a place for high n with people 195 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: to come to from other parts of the world. Either 196 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:19,079 Speaker 1: it's a holiday to have the remote large away from people, 197 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: or for some I guess it's also an option as 198 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: a complete change of lifestyle. Either they clearly they would 199 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: need to be able to continue there their careers here 200 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: or there may be in a in a stage with 201 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: their careers A past. I think of someone like Tiger 202 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: Fund founder Julian Robertson, who spends a lot of time 203 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: out here and has built built resort lodges and high 204 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: quality golf courses. Um James Cameron, the movie producer who 205 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: is now living here with his family, but is still 206 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: making the next Ever Time movie here in Wellington in 207 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: conjunction with Peter Jackson's Water People. So it's got attributes 208 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: and after all, it's only a short flight back to 209 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: the United States. And don't forget there is a connection 210 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: with the United States and Trump here. The founder of Papal, 211 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: Peter Chill, who got his New Zealand citizenship in eleven. Uh, 212 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: that was that a big story there, Tracy well Sadly 213 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't in twenty eleven because very few people knew 214 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: about its sharpened the focus on whether it's too easy 215 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: to get New Zealand citizenship. That was an interesting story 216 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: when it did emerge. The the idea that in his case, 217 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: he was putting some seed money into some of our 218 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: emerging software companies. On the highest profile one is Zero, 219 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: which is an accounting software business that started here and 220 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: again in Wellington and is now growing rapidly and wanting 221 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: to take on into it. In in the United States, 222 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: I think we do prize our citizenship quite highly. And 223 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: there were some people saying was it just being bought. 224 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: There's no real resolution to that question, So tracy for 225 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: those who cover central banking very closely, and let's face it, 226 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: that's us. New Zealand had a unique role to play. 227 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: Talk to us about that. Then the New Zealans inflation 228 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: really got out of control in the late nineties and 229 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: the government of the day felt that there had to 230 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: be more disciplined around the fight against inflation, and they 231 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: brought the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Act and to play, 232 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: which was the first time a government and its central 233 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: bank had had legislated for price stability, and since the 234 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: Reserve Bank of New Zealand became the pioneer inflation target. 235 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: Of course, today it's a common, common strategy that central 236 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: banks have adopted around the world, but in those days 237 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: it was it was pretty unique that said a really 238 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: rigorous inflation target enshrined that the central bank would be 239 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: independent of government. It even went sir faris to say 240 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: that if the governor of the day failed to reach 241 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: his target as or her target, then the follower follow 242 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: through could be termination of the of the role. Of course, 243 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: it never happened, but it certainly brought a discipline that 244 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: helped drag inflation way way back as the unities developed, 245 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: and it's certainly provided untold decades of central bank coverage 246 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: of Farder for Bloomberg, central bank coverage all over the 247 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: world as other central banks adopted inflation targeting schemes and tracy. 248 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: As inflation has stayed low, not just in New Zealand 249 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: but really throughout much of the developed world. Is New 250 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: Zealand also playing a pioneering role in questioning the inflation 251 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: target I think we we've discussed it. It's like, as 252 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: you say, like most central banks, we record out in 253 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: New Zealand when global inflation stayed remarkably low, and as 254 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: we discussed earlier, three growth rate. The last three years, 255 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: inflation is only just returned to two percent, which is 256 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: the middle point of the current reigns to the Reserve 257 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: Bank targets. Our current Governor, Graham Wheeler, who finishes this 258 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: term later this year, has been a staunt defender of 259 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: inflation targeting. Some some opponents have argued that it's driven 260 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: the currency higher than it should have otherwise been. Um, 261 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: I guess that debate will go on, won't it. My 262 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: favorite moment in recent New Zealand history was the Cricket 263 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: World Cup final third delivery of the game. I might 264 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: add when Tracy, what happened? Mitchell Stark bowled the New 265 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: Zealand captain for zero and it was basically all over. 266 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: That sums it up. Then that's exactly what happened. I mean, 267 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: you're joined. You don't want to draw comparisons for the 268 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: Rugby World Cup final in the All Blacks manage to 269 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: defeat Australia, not at all? All right, Well, gentlemen, there's 270 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: nothing like a good sports rivalry to keep the conversation 271 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: going forever. But we're going to have to end it there. Tracy, 272 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us today. Benchmark will be 273 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: back next week and until then, you can find us 274 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, our Bloomberg app, 275 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: as well as on Apple Podcasts, Podcadcast, Stitcher, or wherever 276 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: you might enjoy finding your podcasts. While you're there, take 277 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: a minute to rate and review the show so more 278 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: listeners can find us and let us know what you 279 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: thought of the show. You can follow me on Twitter 280 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: at at scott Landman Dan. You are at Moss Underscore Echo, 281 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: and our guest Tracy Withers is at Tracy w Withers. 282 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: Benchmark is produced by Sarah Patterson. The head of Bloomberg 283 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: Podcast is Alec McCabe. Thanks for listening, See you next time.