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Speaker 1: As human beings. We're just laying this before you in

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Speaker 1: the hopes that it'll make you feel something. Yes, that's

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Speaker 1: that's what our job is.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Off the Cup my personal anti anxiety antidote.

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Speaker 2: We are wrapping up the first season of Off the

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Speaker 2: Cup and we're wrapping up the summer, and I have

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Speaker 2: to be honest, it's been an awesome year and today's

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Speaker 2: guest might be the coolest we've ever had.

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Speaker 3: Now, we've had tremendous.

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Speaker 2: Guests this year in our first Off the Cup season,

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Speaker 2: from my friend Josh gad Our, first guest, to Huey Lewis,

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite pop artists, Bradley Whitford, Sherry Shepherd.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so so many good guests. And next week

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Speaker 2: we'll finish the season with a very special guest and

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Speaker 2: a very special announcement, so you definitely don't want to

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Speaker 2: miss that. But today's guest is so cool, Like if

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Speaker 2: cool were a person, it would be this guy. And

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Speaker 2: I want to start with a trigger warning for people.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk to memusicals in this episode. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: talk Broadway, we're gonna talk Tony's. It's happening, and you know,

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Speaker 2: what a big fan of Broadway I am. I geeked

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Speaker 2: out with Ricky Lake and Bridget Everett and Josh and

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Speaker 2: Kisses Paul Stanley. And if you don't think musicals are cool, man,

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Speaker 2: are you wrong?

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Speaker 3: They are the coolest.

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Speaker 2: And the coolest musical of all time probably is one

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Speaker 2: you definitely know, even if you're not a musicals person,

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Speaker 2: because in twenty fifteen, it took the world by storm.

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Speaker 2: It changed Broadway forever, I truly believe that, and it

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Speaker 2: brought in a whole new generation of theater lovers. It

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Speaker 2: made a bunch of incredibly talented people household names. It

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Speaker 2: taught American's history in a way we'd never learned it,

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Speaker 2: and it put us all in the room where it happens.

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Speaker 3: You may have seen today's guest on the.

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Speaker 2: HBO series Oz as Perry Loftus or Chunk Palmer on Bowl,

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Speaker 2: or mister Lisa Wexley on An Just Like That, or

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Speaker 2: as Simba in The Lion King on Broadway, or the

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Speaker 2: original Benny from In the Heights on Broadway. But you

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Speaker 2: know him as the Tony nominated, Grammy winning one and

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Speaker 2: only original George Washington from the award winning Broadway show Hamilton.

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Speaker 2: It's my great honor to welcome Christopher Jackson to off

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Speaker 2: the cup.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this is your life, this is my life.

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Speaker 3: I am so lucky.

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Speaker 2: That we get to do a version of this is

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Speaker 2: your life on a show like this.

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Speaker 3: With people like you.

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Speaker 1: It's nuts, honey, it's nuts.

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Speaker 2: It's my How does it feel to be the coolest person?

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Speaker 2: I imagine in any room?

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Speaker 1: I wish the guy that somebody would tell my daughter

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Speaker 1: that if a en year old daughter, I could care

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Speaker 1: not a wit. Yeah, I know what you mean.

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Speaker 2: I know what you mean, but I mean, listen, it's Hamilton,

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Speaker 2: but it's also hanging out with the Sex and the

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Speaker 2: City crew.

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Speaker 3: It's writing songs for Will I Am and Oh Cool Jay.

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Speaker 2: It's casually winning an Emmy for writing a song on

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Speaker 2: Sesame Street. It's Oz and the Good Wife. It's the

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Speaker 2: Badass Club Queen Wife. It's the hip hop group Freestyle

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Speaker 2: Love Supreme. I mean, save some swag for the rest

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Speaker 2: of us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, come on, you know what happens when your

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Speaker 1: friends are doing fun stuff and you're smart enough to just,

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Speaker 1: you know, not say no.

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Speaker 3: You do have cool friends?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I do have cool friends. I do. I do.

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Speaker 4: But the thing that makes them cool is beyond just

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Speaker 4: their generosity and just awareness of the world, is that

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Speaker 4: the artists like me and we're all just trying to

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Speaker 4: like make stuff that we think would be cool and

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Speaker 4: like sharing it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 4: That's the sauce. That's the secret to all of it.

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Speaker 4: It isn't so much coming just from one person. It

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Speaker 4: comes from a lot of input and a lot of love,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of camaraderie and a lot of trial

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Speaker 4: and error.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it does seem so fun because it does

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Speaker 2: seem like and you have very important jobs, but it

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Speaker 2: does seem like you guys just get together and make

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Speaker 2: stuff and have fun.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's the essence of it.

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Speaker 4: And we've done it all over the world, and we've

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Speaker 4: done it when no one was watching and but a

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Speaker 4: select few. And it's kind of that sandbox mentality, like

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Speaker 4: I've got a shovel, I've got a truck, I've got

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Speaker 4: a you know, a bucket of water.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of how it always has come about.

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Speaker 4: And and that's why it's always been more fun to

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Speaker 4: do stuff with them, because the trust that you build

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Speaker 4: up after a while is just it's impenetrable and and

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Speaker 4: you can fail together. But it's the effort and the

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Speaker 4: and the you know, just the I don't really give

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Speaker 4: it him whether or not it's the best thing in

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Speaker 4: the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah something, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh I do.

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 3: And I'm so jealous. It just seems it's so cool,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: I always admire people who figure out ways to try

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Speaker 2: to do a lot of things in their careers, and

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Speaker 2: you have.

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Speaker 3: And I want to.

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Speaker 2: Talk about it all with you, But first I like

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Speaker 2: to start by asking, what kind of kid were you?

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Speaker 4: Oh man, middle child till the till till the wheels

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Speaker 4: fell off, you know, it's it's it's.

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Speaker 1: An interesting thing.

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Speaker 4: Every generation has their own stuff, and our generation was.

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Speaker 4: I'm I turned fifty next month, and I was old

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Speaker 4: enough to be locked out of the house when I

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Speaker 4: was five to go play in the summer and don't

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Speaker 4: come back inside until lunch. Yep, you'll be fine, stay close,

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Speaker 4: you know. But growing up in a small town so

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Speaker 4: and my mom was a school teacher there, so there

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Speaker 4: was really no place in the town that I could

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Speaker 4: go that I didn't believe that there wouldn't be eyes

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Speaker 4: somewhere peeking through the window or driving by you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean. So the awareness of commune unity. And

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Speaker 4: I saw it as that I wasn't really into trouble.

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Speaker 4: I really didn't like getting into trouble. I like to

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Speaker 4: kind of stay on this side of it. And it

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Speaker 4: was freedom. It was a lot of freedom. There was

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Speaker 4: a lot of trust, and a lot of like personal responsibility,

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Speaker 4: a lot of the things that kind of prepared me

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Speaker 4: for being, you know, a public facing person, and a

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Speaker 4: lot of respects.

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Speaker 1: I liked the.

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Speaker 4: Freedom of that curiosity brought. You know, my mom being

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Speaker 4: a school teacher, we were taught to be curious. She

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Speaker 4: grew up on a farm. I spent half my time

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Speaker 4: on that farm doing you know, only the stuff you

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Speaker 4: could do on a farm, which is basically, find a

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Speaker 4: stick in a rock and try to hit a four

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Speaker 4: hundred foot home run. But you know what I mean,

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Speaker 4: avoid snakes and beehives, you know, things like that.

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Speaker 1: But like just the the idea of.

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Speaker 4: Being in a small area, right, the colloquialism, the camaraderie.

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Speaker 4: I was with ten other kids who were in the

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Speaker 4: same condition, if you will. So one day it was

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Speaker 4: the Super Bowl, the next day it was the World Series.

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Speaker 4: You know, we were playing at Wimbledon. You know, there

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Speaker 4: was a lot of sports involved. And then you know,

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Speaker 4: I was really active. My social network was our church.

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Speaker 4: We had a huge, very active use group. We traveled

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Speaker 4: every summer. We did the baked sales and the car washes,

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Speaker 4: and you know, donated On Christmas Eve, we'd take toys

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Speaker 4: and things to you know, to the women's shelter for

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Speaker 4: other kids and families who were in a desperate situation.

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Speaker 4: So there was all of these different points at which

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Speaker 4: humanity was the thing, right. We were just people just

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Speaker 4: trying to like have things, and you know, and then

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Speaker 4: MTV comes and so now, yeah, my head is turned

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Speaker 4: toward entertainment. My head is like, oh wait a minute,

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Speaker 4: there's music, there's movies, there's all this. Okay, I think

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Speaker 4: I might want to go do something like that.

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Speaker 3: Was it MTV?

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Speaker 1: That was like the it was you know, it was

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Speaker 1: the MTV at all. It was the Will Smith on

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Speaker 1: Fresh Prince, yeah, who was like older brother. It was

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Speaker 1: The Cosby Show, and you know, it was I was.

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Speaker 4: I've been thinking a lot about Malcolm Jamal Warner lately,

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Speaker 4: you know, because it was untimely passing and like just

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Speaker 4: the fact that these I knew that they were actors.

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Speaker 4: I knew that they were telling the story, and I

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Speaker 4: knew that I liked doing that when I had opportunities

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Speaker 4: like that. So for me, it was it was my

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Speaker 4: version of like Lynn making you know, home movies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like script script at home movie.

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Speaker 4: I wasn't doing that, but like you know, I just

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Speaker 4: always saw entertainment is something that I could see myself

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Speaker 4: inside of.

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Speaker 2: You know, Well, but how did your mom and stepdad,

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Speaker 2: I believe, how did they feel about your interest in performing?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: My mother is also the church pianist, So until up

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Speaker 4: until the day that I moved to New York, she

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Speaker 4: was the only person that ever played anytime I sang.

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Speaker 4: So we had that in common. We had that together.

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Speaker 4: That was sort of our thing. My older sister's musical too,

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Speaker 4: because she didn't really you know, have an inclination to

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Speaker 4: go into the arts like that, but like it was,

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Speaker 4: it was just something that she and I connected on,

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Speaker 4: and I mean we connected hard.

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Speaker 1: We loved music, We loved.

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Speaker 4: We loved that thing that happens when you make something,

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Speaker 4: you know, when you give voice to something, and she

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Speaker 4: knew that it was such a healthy outlet for me.

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Speaker 4: My stepdad couldn't have cared less. He was not a

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Speaker 4: brave man in that way. But my mother was my biggest.

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Speaker 1: Support for sure.

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Speaker 2: Well, sometimes all we need is one and that's the

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Speaker 2: most important one usually, But no doubt, we're talking about Cairo, Illinois.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta say the way it's tell me it's.

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Speaker 4: Hero Caro like cro Illinois, Caro like the syrup. Some

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Speaker 4: of the restaurers will probably know what that is.

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Speaker 2: It's a very small town. I just looked its population

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Speaker 2: this fifteen hundred.

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Speaker 1: It's not even that at this point.

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Speaker 2: It's super small. And yeah, I grew up in small towns.

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Speaker 2: All towns can be super nurturing, they can also be

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Speaker 2: pretty small minded. Was your town an easy place for

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Speaker 2: a young man of color to want to sing and

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Speaker 2: dance and pursue something like that?

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Speaker 4: I think in my instance they were incredibly supportive. But

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Speaker 4: I you know, I came up in the eighties and

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Speaker 4: so the shift had really had really begun. I think

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Speaker 4: what has happened in Caro has happened in so many

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Speaker 4: of the sort of post industrialists Midwest towns where there

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Speaker 4: was a lot of potential very early on and moving

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Speaker 4: into the modern age, and it all completely got viscerated.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was completely viscerated due to racism and due to

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Speaker 4: the social constructs of the day. I mean, we have

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Speaker 4: a legacy where Grant staged his whole campaign of the

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Speaker 4: West from you know, started a caro. We have the

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Speaker 4: Holiday Hotel where Mark Twain played a whole lot of

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Speaker 4: poker and wrote up and down on the river boats.

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Speaker 4: But we also have a legac see, you know, in

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Speaker 4: the sixties and seventies where the White Citizens Council would

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Speaker 4: go up on the levees and shoot down rifles down

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Speaker 4: into the projects indiscriminately. I went to high school with

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Speaker 4: kids whose parents slept in bathtubs because of that. So

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Speaker 4: the legacy of that absolutely drained the spirit of anything

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Speaker 4: that the town hoped to be. We just didn't know

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Speaker 4: that in the eighties and nineties and that sort of

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Speaker 4: you know, and it so closely mirrors so many of

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Speaker 4: the communities in the Midwest that we now see in

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Speaker 4: the Cline and that have contributed to all the nonsense

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Speaker 4: that we have going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what kind of culture shock was it? When

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Speaker 2: you leave ko and get to New York City in

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Speaker 2: like ninety three, ninety four to study dramatic arts, like

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Speaker 2: were you ready for that?

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Speaker 1: You know what's crazy? Is it? Like?

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Speaker 4: I worked at so I worked in the local grocery store,

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Speaker 4: I worked at the Wonder Market for the last year

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Speaker 4: that I was there, and my mom being a teacher

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Speaker 4: at high school.

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Speaker 1: There's virtually no one in town that I didn't know.

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Speaker 4: And if I didn't know them, I knew their cousin

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Speaker 4: or their nephew or their niece for their mind, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean. Like and one of the one

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Speaker 4: of the older men in our church, right before I left,

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Speaker 4: he said, you know, it's just people. There's just a

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Speaker 4: lot more of them, and everyone's going somewhere and they're

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Speaker 4: from somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So when you get there, make.

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Speaker 4: Sure you take a second to look at the tall buildings,

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Speaker 4: but don't get lost in the fact that everybody's from

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Speaker 4: somewhere doing what they came here to do.

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Speaker 1: So from in that sense, I was far more prepared

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Speaker 1: to like encounter because I the city, because I just

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Speaker 1: saw the people. You know, I wasn't prepared for snow.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't you know the first time that it snowed,

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Speaker 1: It's noted eighteen inches one day and then twenty two

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Speaker 1: the next. I had never heard of a nor'easter.

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Speaker 4: Sure with my little starter jacket and no boots or

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Speaker 4: gloves or you're like, yeah, that was insane. But I

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Speaker 4: caught up pretty quickly and learned very quickly that you

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Speaker 4: gotta you have to dress for the winter up here.

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Speaker 1: Different thing.

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Speaker 3: Do you do you get you when you graduate? Do

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Speaker 3: you get work right away?

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Speaker 1: I did? I did. It's crazy well. I ended my

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Speaker 1: school year, graduated on a Sunday. I caught the flu

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Speaker 1: that day.

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Speaker 4: At some point I was in bed for two weeks

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Speaker 4: and then it kind of postponed the inherent fear and

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Speaker 4: just like being petrified of like, oh wait a minute, now,

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Speaker 4: I've got to like be out in the world. And

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Speaker 4: my college roommate called me up. He's like, we're going

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Speaker 4: to an audition today, Like I'm not ready to saying

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Speaker 4: yes you are, I'll be there in five minutes, and

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Speaker 4: literally in five minutes, I grabbed my book and we're

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Speaker 4: out the door. We go to a Showboat audition. The

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Speaker 4: show boat was the Broadway Shower was playing at the time.

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Speaker 1: I got a call back for that following week, went

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Speaker 1: in did my audition.

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Speaker 4: Casting director. His name is Arnold Mongeoli, and to this

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Speaker 4: day I have such a deep admiration for him. He

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Speaker 4: walks around the table, he's smiling, everybody room and smiling

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Speaker 4: and put his arm around me and he's walking me

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Speaker 4: out of the room and says, you know, how old

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Speaker 4: are you? I said, well, you know, I'm nineteen. He's like,

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Speaker 4: you're ready to be on Broadway. But you're not ready.

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Speaker 4: Oh you're still a little green. He said, Go out

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Speaker 4: in the city, get a job, season a little bit,

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Speaker 4: learn how to wash your own clothes and make your dinner. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And I was. I was absolutely floored. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, what what do you mean? What do

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Speaker 1: you mean?

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Speaker 4: Because that would have sold, That would have solved all

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Speaker 4: of the issues that had emerged while I sat there

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Speaker 4: for two weeks, you know, sweating and being afraid to

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Speaker 4: like go outside. Fast forward five steps from there, there's

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Speaker 4: a gentleman named Norman matt Locke who had written a

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Speaker 4: show with Galt McDermott, the composer of Hair, and they

301
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Speaker 4: were in rehearsals. They just started rehearsals for this off

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Speaker 4: Broadway review called Time in the Wind that they had

303
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Speaker 4: written back in the seventies together and they were going

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Speaker 4: to stage it, and he's a big brusqueuy, and he says,

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Speaker 4: you know, I got to go into this call back,

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Speaker 4: but when I'm done, would you be interested in coming

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Speaker 4: to meeting this director.

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Speaker 1: I've got a show that's going up, an off Broadway show.

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Speaker 4: And I was like, sure, walk over to the theater,

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Speaker 4: start like meet the director, sing sixteen bars, and now

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Speaker 4: I'm in the show. I worked for the next five months,

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Speaker 4: got my equity card, and then I was off, you know.

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Speaker 4: And then eighteen months later I got hired at an

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Speaker 4: hour before the first audition for The Lion King. Yes,

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Speaker 4: all these things gonna happen abruptly, you know. I can't

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Speaker 4: you couldn't write it.

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Speaker 1: But I had enough time to call my mom at

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Speaker 1: school and say, hey, Mom, I just.

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Speaker 4: Booked a Broadway show. I'm going to be in The

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Speaker 4: Lion King. I start rehearsal in twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: And I walk in and it's a room full of

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Speaker 1: people and there's a whole thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: But you go from off Broadway to Broadway in under

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Speaker 3: two years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean sometimes when you're in it, it

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Speaker 2: feels like, oh, this is taking so long. I just

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Speaker 2: want to get there. But sure, even for you, it

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Speaker 2: felt fast.

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Speaker 4: I mean yeah, but you know, when you're young, days

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Speaker 4: count like weeks, months, years. If you're looking for the thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you're if you're just looking for stability

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Speaker 4: more than anything else, you know, and you know, fortunately

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Speaker 4: I was surrounded and kept. I didn't know it at

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Speaker 4: the time, but I was being kept by so many

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Speaker 4: different friends and you know, acquaintances, and then just random

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Speaker 4: jobs here.

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Speaker 1: I was a cater waiter. I worked in a tanning salon.

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Speaker 1: I was probably the only black person in New York

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Speaker 1: were working at a tanning salon. But I worked in

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Speaker 1: a tanning salon, you know, like I had all of

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Speaker 1: these jobs.

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Speaker 4: I was to working at a bistro when I went

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Speaker 4: to my callback for Lion King, and I still went

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Speaker 4: back and finished my shift at the end of rehearsal.

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Speaker 1: I worked there for two more weeks. Yeah, because because

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Speaker 1: you want to leave the owner hanging. But I didn't want.

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Speaker 1: I knew, but I didn't want to leave the owner hanging,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just work ethic, the

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Speaker 1: thing that we do.

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Speaker 4: I was fortunate enough to grow up doing really hard

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Speaker 4: like manual labor. Yeah, with my stepdad right, and my

352
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Speaker 4: end just on my family farm. So for me being

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Speaker 4: able to like understand what real work was kept me engaged.

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Speaker 4: It kept me not afraid to like, all right, I'll

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Speaker 4: do this job to survive for these three weeks, and

356
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Speaker 4: I'll do the next you know what I mean, Like, yeah,

357
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Speaker 4: the things that you do, you just kind of stay up.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's it's remarkable.

359
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Speaker 2: Were you because at the time the Lion King, I mean,

360
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Speaker 2: it's still huge, one of the biggest shows.

361
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Speaker 1: It was the biggest show on the planet at the time.

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Speaker 3: At that time.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, were you? Were you starstruck? Did you

364
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Speaker 2: have imposter syndrome? Were you like I can't wait for

365
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Speaker 2: everyone to see what I can do, Like what's your

366
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Speaker 2: your mentality?

367
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Speaker 4: Super competitive, but not at the expense of my cast mates.

368
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Speaker 4: I was competitive with myself. I was competitive with the business.

369
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Speaker 4: I wanted to be able to like make my mark.

370
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Speaker 4: I wanted to be a part of big things. But

371
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Speaker 4: you don't have any control of that when you're an actor,

372
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Speaker 4: especially when you're a young actor like I'm just now

373
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Speaker 4: thirty years in getting to the point where I can

374
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Speaker 4: say yes or no to something, you know, But even then,

375
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Speaker 4: like we have to. We have these things called kids,

376
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Speaker 4: and they don't stop growing. They just know, they keep

377
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Speaker 4: growing and you got to feed them, and you.

378
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Speaker 1: Know they need clothes. So even now as as far

379
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Speaker 1: along as I've.

380
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Speaker 3: Sometimes you gotta say us, Yeah, you.

381
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: Gotta say yes to things.

382
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Speaker 4: When you start looking for other justifications for the time,

383
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Speaker 4: you know, then you start weighing time. You start weighing

384
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Speaker 4: like do I want to be on this schedule? I

385
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 4: really like having Monday or Saturdays and Sundays off. I

386
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 4: play golf on Sundays, like I have other friends outside

387
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Speaker 4: of this bit.

388
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Speaker 1: You know me, like all of those things.

389
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Speaker 4: Yeah, my god, but yeah, I always wanted to just

390
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 4: you know, I grew up revealed from a distance revering

391
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 4: Paul Robison and Sammy Davis Junior and Frank and like

392
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,439
Speaker 4: all of these these folks that were that It feels

393
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Speaker 4: very familiar because it's it reminds me of the friendships

394
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Speaker 4: that I have.

395
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Speaker 1: With my crew and the things that we're doing.

396
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Speaker 4: And it's out in the world and it's public facing,

397
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Speaker 4: and you know, even all the way up into and

398
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Speaker 4: through Ham it's and it's it's exhilarating to know that

399
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Speaker 4: you're just like it's a Tuesday, let's go do something.

400
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: You know, and ask exactly what happens, you know.

401
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,119
Speaker 4: And ever since, ever since Hamilton, it's been oh, and

402
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 4: I'll get to be on TV.

403
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: Now I get to go do this and do.

404
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 3: That now, and right right right, well, let's speaking of

405
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,439
Speaker 3: your crew. How do you come to meet Lynn? Manuel?

406
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 1: Miranda left Lion King and O two. So I was

407
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,479
Speaker 1: there from ninety seven to two.

408
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 4: I call that like my grad school experience, Yeah, because

409
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 4: I really learned pretty much as much about the world

410
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 4: and about working on Broadway and myself growing as a performer.

411
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 4: But I had been hurt. I had three knee surgeries

412
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 4: while I was doing Lion King. It's an incredibly rigorous,

413
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 4: like physical show. So I left on crutches, I recover,

414
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 4: I go out of town. I did a show out

415
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 4: of town and a friend of mine called me all

416
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Speaker 4: the night before as I was packing up to come

417
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 4: back to New York, and she said, Hey, I've met

418
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 4: these guys. They're doing something really cool. It's hip hop

419
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 4: and it's R and B stuff, and it's a different

420
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 4: kind of theater and they're just great people. You should

421
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 4: just meet him. I was like, I whatever. You know,

422
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 4: I've been on Broadway forever.

423
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 1: Whatever.

424
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:05,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

425
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,280
Speaker 4: And I so two days after I get back from Chicago,

426
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 4: I go to the basement of the Drama bookslot store

427
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,600
Speaker 4: and I meet Tommy Kale, and I meet Lin Miranda,

428
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 4: and I meet Bill Sherman, and I was like, you

429
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 4: guys are writing the musical because I thought you had

430
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 4: to look like Stephen Sondheim.

431
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: H right, you know what I mean?

432
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 4: Like again, all of these emerging you know, like eras

433
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 4: that are sort of shifting in the processes. And then

434
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,959
Speaker 4: and then Lynn played me one of the songs. And

435
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 4: then it was a duet that we did and I

436
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 4: didn't even music. I just learned it from listening to him,

437
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 4: and we just like which song was that?

438
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 5: Five?

439
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 1: It was a song called Handball in high Bridge Park.

440
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,399
Speaker 4: It was an early, an early song in the heights,

441
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 4: like writing the process. And Lynn had just got into town,

442
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,840
Speaker 4: like he had just met Tommy. They had just sort

443
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 4: of started working on this thing seriously. And I met

444
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 4: them that afternoon and the rest is history. I mean,

445
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 4: it's been a twenty year relationship, work in relationship, and.

446
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: It's been incredible, it really has.

447
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 4: I can't I don't know I don't know what else

448
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 4: to say about it other than you know, the world

449
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 4: has seen it, you know.

450
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 5: What I mean?

451
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could not have gone better.

452
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:22,719
Speaker 5: Yeah.

453
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 3: In the Heights obviously does very well. It's a great

454
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: show as well.

455
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 2: But what do you think when you first see the

456
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,000
Speaker 2: Hamilton book or do.

457
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 3: You only see pieces of it at first?

458
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:31,959
Speaker 4: Like?

459
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 3: What's your how does.

460
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 2: Hamilton come to you in what form?

461
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 4: The first thing that I Lynn and I are on

462
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 4: stage during a performance of In the Heights, there's a

463
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 4: section in the first act where Daniella, the lady who

464
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 4: owns the salon, they come out and they sing this

465
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 4: song no Mediga. And at the time, in the way

466
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 4: it was staged, Lynn and I would be inside the bodega,

467
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 4: and it wou'd be in a shaft. So on any

468
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 4: given day we could be talking about anything. We could

469
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 4: be talking about what Lynn eight that didn't didn't agree

470
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 4: with his stomach.

471
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: I could be complaining about the fact that I haven't

472
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: slept enough where you know, it's just guys.

473
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,439
Speaker 4: Yep, And he says to me, he looks over and

474
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 4: he says, I got my next thing.

475
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: I think. I was like, cool, what is it?

476
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 4: He's like, it's a hip hop concept album about the

477
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 4: Treasury Secretary. Time to go on out and then we

478
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 4: go out into the big number of ninety six thousand, right, So.

479
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:32,239
Speaker 1: What you know?

480
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 4: I have no idea what he's talking about. And so

481
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 4: a few days later, Tommy says to me, I'm walking

482
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 4: across to my dressing room across the stage before the show,

483
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 4: and Tommy's come in and he's like, hey, G Dubs,

484
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: And You're like, what what? What everything shorthand with us,

485
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 4: you know? And I said, no, I don't know what

486
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 4: the hell he means. He said, G Dubbs, George Washington.

487
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: And I still just what And he says, Lin didn't

488
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 4: tell you. I was like, what, I don't know what

489
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 4: you're talking about. He said, Lynn's thing, George Washington. You're

490
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 4: gonna do It's a it's a thing about Alexander Hamilton

491
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 4: and you're gonna be George Washington.

492
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, that was it. We get done

493
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: with that show.

494
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 4: Before I go home, I go down to the borders

495
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 4: down by Madison Square Garden because it was opened super late,

496
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 4: and I pick up this huge biograph. Would look for

497
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 4: the biggest biography on Washington that I could find. Yeah,

498
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 4: in a in a a great turn of luck for me.

499
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 4: It was Churnou's Pull a surprise winning biographer, perfect good choice,

500
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 4: eight hundred and something pages. I never even I never

501
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 4: read a book that that thick, ye, But that night

502
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 4: back in I guess what nine maybe eight o nine

503
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 4: O nine, I think, and I just start on the

504
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 4: bus on the train.

505
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: I'm just like, it becomes my.

506
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 4: Bible, and I knew that whatever it was going to be,

507
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 4: that I wanted to be as informed about it as possible.

508
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 1: And it was like the first it was really the first.

509
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 4: Opportunity in all of the years that I've been working

510
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 4: to be able to like base the character work that

511
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 4: I was attempting on source material. It was a character

512
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 4: that was, you know, outside of Lincoln, was probably the

513
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 4: most biography figure of our of our country's history. So

514
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 4: there was just so much and even in the writing style,

515
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 4: there was so much tie in between. Obviously the Turnou's

516
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 4: Hamilton Book and the Washington book. Parts were like Deuteronomy,

517
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 4: but it was very it was super super informative. I've

518
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 4: read the book seven times throughout the course of the prep,

519
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 4: you know, because my years so a couple of times,

520
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 4: you know, a year I would I would get into it,

521
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 4: and I would have read it. It just became I tried

522
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 4: to become an expert on the things that motivated Washington

523
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 4: and the things that informed and influences life. Washington's journey

524
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,879
Speaker 4: in Hamilton is all about the moment that happened, the

525
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 4: moments that happened before he ran into Hamilton, in the

526
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 4: moments after he ran into Hamilton. You know, his story

527
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 4: is not told. His story as it relates to Hamilton

528
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 4: is what's important, right And for me, it was really

529
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 4: important to know that when i enter upstage on the

530
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 4: rail and I've got a cloak on that I'm coming

531
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 4: from Boston after just having you know, thwarted the British

532
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 4: there and made you know, like.

533
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: It all made sense to me.

534
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 4: And that was the That's why I think, you know,

535
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 4: that role was the most fun because it was like, oh,

536
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 4: all of these things that I learned back in school,

537
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 4: I now actually get to yes, get the thread.

538
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: It was dope, and you get to flesh him out

539
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: because he is just a figure in a history book

540
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: for so many people. Even if you admire him whatever

541
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 2: you think, he's alone gone. And to humanize him the

542
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: way Lynn does with all the characters in Hamilton and

543
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: really put personalities and plight, you know, to these characters.

544
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: What an incredible thing to be a part of.

545
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: I can't It was so much fun. It was so

546
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: much fun, and it was so hard.

547
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the part that I love.

548
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 1: The most about it.

549
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 4: Well, doing the show just physically sang twenty two songs

550
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: the show. If it wasn't a solo, it was like

551
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 4: I was involved in twenty two different songs. That's a

552
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,199
Speaker 4: tremendous amount of singing, you know. So you build up

553
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 4: these muscles, and you build up this awareness and the

554
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 4: audiences that come in that are so wrapped and so

555
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 4: excited to meet the story live and in person, and

556
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 4: you know, because the groundswell was so tremendous before we

557
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 4: ever even hit Broadway.

558
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was definitely a different kind of experience.

559
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 4: There are enthusiastic audiences and then there are audiences that

560
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 4: are literally vibrating. Yes, when you come out on stage,

561
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 4: whether they you know, because it isn't about whether or

562
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 4: not they know the lyrics, It's about how they're hearing

563
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 4: it and being so open and being so aware that

564
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: they're in an audience.

565
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: Yes, right, I always talk about.

566
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 4: The the agreement that we make when we're as audience members,

567
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 4: like we all agree to bring whatever bags we have

568
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 4: into a theater, set them down and listen. Yes, and

569
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 4: the applause that comes is more of a confirmation that

570
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: we were together than you were so great, you were amazing.

571
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: I was so like all of those things are are nice,

572
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 4: but like that final moment where everyone stops, you know,

573
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: at the end of the show, there was a there

574
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 4: was a silence that usually happened that was so full

575
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 4: of just the release gratitude moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And

576
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 4: it was a gratitude that we shared with the audience

577
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 4: because hey, we get to do this for you guys.

578
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: It'll never happen again. It was really awesome.

579
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: It was the It's the best part of of all

580
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 4: of the things that I've ever done.

581
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: Well, I can from from the position of an audience member,

582
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: I can tell you I cry at every overture, Like

583
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 2: I sit down the curtain, go the orchestra play, I'm crying.

584
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: Already because I'm just so grateful to be there.

585
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: And I know, especially on Broadway, whatever I'm going to

586
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: see it's going to be the best thing I've ever seen.

587
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: I mean, it just always is.

588
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: And I can rank this one I liked more than

589
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: this one, but it's always just going to be the

590
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: best thing I've ever seen, and we're going to do

591
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: it together, and it's like it is such a break

592
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: from the real world for two and a half hours.

593
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: It's yeah, we all need it.

594
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 2: I do want to ask, though, before you knew it

595
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: was a huge hit, was there any thought as you're workshopping,

596
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't going to work, or this isn't for Broadway,

597
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: or this is great but people won't get it.

598
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: Did you have any thoughts like that? No?

599
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 4: No, because again, as I said before about my relationship

600
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 4: with Lynn and Tommy and Alex Lockmore.

601
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 1: We do stuff. Yeah, we just do stuff.

602
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

603
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 4: And the reason why I had so much confidence that

604
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: it would work was mostly due to the fact that, Yeah,

605
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 4: Lend's my little broke but he is brilliant ye and

606
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 4: Tommy is a brilliant director and a brilliant They're brilliant

607
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 4: human beings, right. Love the politic of it, don't love

608
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, like, don't like this song,

609
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 4: don't like this this idea, Like it's it's so thoughtful

610
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 4: that when loser draw. Our aim isn't to make everybody happy,

611
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 4: but our aim is to be tell a complete story.

612
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: That's it.

613
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: That's it.

614
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 4: When a painter creates a painting, his job isn't to

615
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 4: stand by that painting and you know, for time in

616
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 4: memoriam and tell you what to think about it or

617
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 4: what how to be influenced by it. It's meant to

618
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 4: provoke thought, feeling, exercise, emotion. Right, that's the that's the

619
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 4: next step from the arts that are are refined or

620
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 4: in a frame and as human beings, we're just we're

621
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 4: laying this before you in the hopes that it'll make

622
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 4: you feel something.

623
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's what our job is. You know what

624
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: I mean.

625
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 4: I think it's so much as conflated, especially with the

626
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 4: TV of it all and the fact that the medium

627
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: becomes live, that we're only doing this.

628
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: For recognition, And it couldn't be further from the truth.

629
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 4: People who are on on you know, like social media

630
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 4: and things like that that are that are influences or

631
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 4: or are looking to be popular. That's not a new thing. Yeah,

632
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 4: I think in our our generation saw that happening. But

633
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 4: in sort of you know that traditional media with like

634
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 4: you know, Paris Hilton, for example, and Parditions Kardashians. Their

635
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 4: job was to be famous, do things that would initiate

636
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 4: and continue that conversation.

637
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: Our job is to like tell a story to you.

638
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 4: If we're known for it, If we pursue that, it's

639
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 4: only so that we can further our ability to.

640
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: Do it right.

641
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 4: And it's like, I don't want to be I don't

642
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 4: want to be a social media presence, but I.

643
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: Have to do that. I know because the people that

644
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: decide whether I get to work are now looking to

645
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: see how many followers I have and how active I am.

646
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: And I mean, it's such a it's a weird it's

647
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: sort of a weird like time that we're in.

648
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: Well, it's very familiar.

649
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 2: That idea is very familiar to me because I got

650
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: into journalism not to become famous, not even to be

651
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 2: on TV. I got in it to tell stories and

652
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: hold power accountable. And when TV came, I found well, this,

653
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: this is helpful. It gets me more writing jobs and

654
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,719
Speaker 2: more opportunities to do the thing I love. And along

655
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 2: the way, right, when you get more well known, then

656
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: you have to foster the social media relationship. And sure

657
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 2: you have to you have to keep those parts of

658
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: your job going to get the next things you want,

659
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: I'd rather.

660
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: And not for nothing. But like you also, you do

661
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: develop a skill.

662
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: Set and then you do very You learn what.

663
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 4: It means to be on camera and to like host

664
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 4: your own show, how to structure and how to produce

665
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 4: and how to like it guides your ability. But that

666
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: is a skill set versus it's a feature and not

667
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 4: a bug.

668
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: Right, It's just it's not the thing that you're pursuing it.

669
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you you you uphold your own journalistic pathway.

670
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: To the world and what's important to me.

671
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, and sharing that information, Yeah, as an expert in

672
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 4: the field that you're in.

673
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that's why I watch you. That's

674
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, That's why.

675
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 4: And I know the difference between when I'm watching you,

676
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 4: you know, host a show versus something that you're sharing

677
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: on Instagram, you know, Like, but I never lose sight

678
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 4: that this is a human being but also a journalist

679
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 4: talking about the things that are relevant for people to

680
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: know and process.

681
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: And that's a there's a there's a correlation I.

682
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: Think between I think there is and what actors are doing.

683
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: It's it's a different it's a perform parallel pursuits, if

684
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: you will.

685
00:32:50,840 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: You know, we've had a lot of artists on who

686
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: have done theater and then moved over to TV and film,

687
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: and they're very different muscles and experiences. What's the difference

688
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 2: for you and what do you like about doing TV

689
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 2: and film that's maybe different than doing theater.

690
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: I like the craft of making television.

691
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: I like that it's a mental exercise and it requires

692
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 4: a different kind of mental engagement.

693
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Theater is all tightrope.

694
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 4: Theater is being in a room with fifteen hundred people

695
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: and developing a sense of where they are or whether

696
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 4: they're with you, or whether they're quiet because they don't

697
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 4: like what's happening, or they're quiet because they're leaning in.

698
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: Theater is a level of focus that you have to

699
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 4: maintain whether you're on stage or not, and know exactly

700
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 4: where that energy has to be put at and how

701
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 4: you regulate that throttle. It's the most exhilarating experience I

702
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 4: I could hope to have professionally, and film and TV

703
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 4: is far more insular. Even if you're like filming on

704
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: Fifth Avenue carrying a twenty foot train, you know.

705
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: There's no doubt that we know we're.

706
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: In an iconic moment like that, you know what I mean,

707
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 4: But when the cameras one hundred feet away, you still

708
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 4: have to maintain the reality and the truth in that.

709
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: And there's nobody watching, you know. So I love the

710
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: fact that life is still going on.

711
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: I love the idea of leaving a sound stage and

712
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 4: you know, there's an ice cream truck down down the

713
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 4: street that literally held your shooting up for twenty minutes

714
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 4: while all of the neighborhood got ice cream.

715
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. There's just so many different

716
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: things that you have to be aware of and make

717
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: space war or the dreaded helicopter above right above an area,

718
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of thing.

719
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 4: That part it's way more forgiven in that regard, But

720
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 4: it's a different it's a different centema.

721
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 3: It's a different thing.

722
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: Well speaking of because I think you just spoke of it,

723
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: and just like that, it just ended with controversy.

724
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 3: Because that show provokes very strong feelings.

725
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: What was your experience like stepping into a really beloved

726
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: franchise lover Here, but one that also got some real detractors,

727
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 2: especially in the last season.

728
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 4: Well when it was out we were in our twenties

729
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 4: experiencing I mean, I lived in New York and that

730
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 4: wasn't my experience same.

731
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know where the fancy restaurants were.

732
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 4: I wasn't thinking about fancy restaurants, right, you know, I

733
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 4: didn't have shoes that needed to be.

734
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: Shined, you know what I'm saying. Yes, we were in.

735
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: Our twenties discovering everything. You fast forward, we've gone through

736
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 4: so many different world shape changing events.

737
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 1: Yes, And we're all.

738
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 4: In our forties and we've all been cheated on, and

739
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 4: we've been divorced, and we have kids, yep, and we

740
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 4: have money problems and we like I think that there's

741
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 4: a moment where alignment of an audience in a show

742
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,399
Speaker 4: and an idea have to be reconciled some kind of way.

743
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, I can't speak to an

744
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 4: entire audience or characterize an entire you know, millions of

745
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 4: people watching a beloved show that helped define kind of

746
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 4: what they're a period of their lives. Yeah, represented, you know,

747
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 4: I can't speak to that except to say that I

748
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 4: think culturally, I think we're in a moment where there's

749
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 4: certainly room for a show like and just like that.

750
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 4: But I think given the very recent history of these

751
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 4: cultural movements like black Lives Matter and social justice and

752
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 4: me Too and all of those things that were super

753
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 4: important for us, a show like Sex and the City

754
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 4: has to do a whole lot of lifting because.

755
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 3: The stakes are high, stakes are.

756
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 4: Higher, a whole lot of lifting, And I don't know

757
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 4: if anybody can check all of those boxes.

758
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 2: It's hard to do, especially remembering Sex and the City

759
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: ultimately as a comedy, and.

760
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: It is and it's treated as such. Yeah, heart, you

761
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like it?

762
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 3: No, I totally get it.

763
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: But have we but have we allowed ourselves to laugh?

764
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: I know?

765
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: I know it's tough because it's not just about getting

766
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: into sushi samba and finding Minola Blois anymore.

767
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 3: Like, as you said, a lot's changed.

768
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: The stakes are higher because we're older, the world is different.

769
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 3: How do you tell the story of these.

770
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: Same people in a completely different time and age, with

771
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 2: completely different, very real responsibilities now more than just paying

772
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: their rent.

773
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 3: It's a heavy lift. It's a lot. You're asking a lot.

774
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: And speaking of the characters, how do you let them

775
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: live if the decisions that they've made don't now align

776
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: with your politics?

777
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: Yes, right, right.

778
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 4: So there's what I mean to say is that when

779
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 4: you have a show like this, and the beautiful part

780
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 4: about it is that there are so many cultural touch

781
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 4: points that Michael Patrick King and the entire like writer's

782
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 4: staff were being so attentive to all of these different

783
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 4: voices and all of these different all of these different influences.

784
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: Community and flots.

785
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and they weren't making a show

786
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 4: based on trying not to offend as many people as

787
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 4: they could. They were making a show that ultimately, at

788
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 4: the at the end of the day, honored the characters

789
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 4: lives as they continued. Yes, And I think that that's

790
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 4: while also presenting characters that were so very like seemingly

791
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 4: ensconced in how these characters have evolved and giving them

792
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 4: life and trying to represent a different take on the

793
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 4: times and on the city and on how these people

794
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 4: live and move and breathe.

795
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: You know it.

796
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 4: There doesn't need to be a perfect version because it's

797
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: not possible. Good point, Yeah, it's just not possible. It's

798
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 4: you know, like me and Nicolelaurie Parker were doing something

799
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 4: that has never been done on television before. We were

800
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 4: representing a black family with all of these very you know,

801
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 4: sort of common problems while also having hundreds of millions

802
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 4: of dollars in them. Yeah, and living in a fifty

803
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: million dollar you know, condo and Park Avenue like that's

804
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 4: a real thing.

805
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens, we just don't see it. And that's

806
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 1: also I think representing the best of imagination and TV

807
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: and making and storytelling.

808
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: Yes, you know, well said, I want to switch gears.

809
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: We have something in common. Our kids are on the

810
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 2: autism spectrum, and I was wondering if you're comfortable sharing

811
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 2: what it was like to get that diagnosis.

812
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:56,919
Speaker 4: In that moment, we were ten minutes before our first

813
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 4: run through of in Nights Off Broadway, so there was

814
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: I was having a day where there was a lot

815
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 4: going on.

816
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: It's a big day.

817
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought that My wife was while we were

818
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 4: checking on and trying.

819
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 1: To figure out.

820
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 4: What was going on with our boy, and she called

821
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 4: me and she told me that our pediatrician is certain

822
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 4: after the second evaluation that CJ has autism.

823
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 3: How old is he at this point?

824
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: He's two almost two. And I had never heard what

825
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: I'd never heard the word. I didn't know what it meant. Yep.

826
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: And in that moment. I mean, quite honestly, it was

827
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: upsetting and scary.

828
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 4: But the first question that I had was will we

829
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 4: ever be able to play catch? I mean I literally

830
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 4: said that, will he ever be able to play?

831
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: Like? And I don't know why that. I don't know

832
00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: what that, you know, like, I get baseball's deep better

833
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: in my in my experiences in my childhood and my

834
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: my psyche, And it's one of those few it's one

835
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: of the few.

836
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: Things that I that was always a bridge from me

837
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 4: with an older mentor, like my godfather was my pastor.

838
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 4: The first thing we ever did was play catch with

839
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 4: one another. My grandfather played catch with me, my dad,

840
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 4: who was there there for a very.

841
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: Short amount of time.

842
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 4: I remember ball was a part of our relationship, and

843
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 4: that was what it was.

844
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: I don't know why. He was diagnosed with pdd in OS,

845
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: which is sort of.

846
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: Broad spectrum early diagnosis, nonspecific. He experienced some things later

847
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 4: on soon thereafter that were a little bit more severe.

848
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 4: He he developed a proxy.

849
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: Of speech where and that's a situation where in his case,

850
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: he basically lost his brain the wiring, to put it

851
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: sort of crudely, the wiring from his brain to his

852
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: mouth got jump. Okay, so he wasn't able to process

853
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: certain foods are certain like sour sweet, sweet sweet stuck around,

854
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: but savory things. He was eating a lot of different things.

855
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: And then after a while, I mean very quickly, was

856
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: just like no, he couldn't process certain textures to this

857
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: day that he still struggles with and he's twenty now.

858
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:22,479
Speaker 1: He couldn't talk.

859
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: So it severely affected his ability to speak. And so

860
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 4: instantly physical therapy, speech therapy inccupational therapy in home every day,

861
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 4: started school when he was three, all day like his

862
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 4: speech pathologists.

863
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, his mother, My wife is amazing,

864
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: was amazing.

865
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 4: She essentially put her career who she's also a world

866
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 4: class singer and performance.

867
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: Yes, she put her whole career. She stopped it. She's like,

868
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 1: you're doing this, I'm doing this.

869
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 4: And so every single day at eight o'clock, first therapist,

870
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 4: the last therapist was at.

871
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: Four every single day and saved his life. There was

872
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: a time we didn't think he would talk.

873
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 4: He won't shut up, and I know that that's not

874
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 4: you know, that's that's we still have so many things

875
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 4: that we have to be attentive to.

876
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: It's never ending.

877
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 4: It's never ending with our kids anyway, Yes, but it

878
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: just sort of shrunk our world, yep around. This little

879
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 4: nugget of a beautiful child taught me how to be

880
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 4: a dad, taught me how to don't come home a

881
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: crack beer, internal sports center. No no, no, no, no, get home.

882
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 4: You got to lock in. What have I missed? What's

883
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 4: going on? How can I help? What do I need

884
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 4: to know? How do I need to You know, I

885
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 4: can take him to therapy this day, I can get here.

886
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: I can be here for that, you know what I mean?

887
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: Like it just sort of it rearranged everything.

888
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 4: And we were pretty much broke and had so few

889
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 4: prospects in terms of like resources and where to go,

890
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 4: how to navigate the.

891
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: New York state.

892
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 4: And we're very fortunate, blessed to be in New York state,

893
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 4: a state, a state that makes such accommodations for people

894
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 4: with special needs as opposed to some other states.

895
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: And it's just horror stories. But my wife was.

896
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 4: I mean, she turned into a pitbull of an advocate.

897
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: She was on top of everything. She was super attentive,

898
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 4: and we just learned a new life. We learned a

899
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 4: new way to move. We learned how to. We had

900
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 4: to build our family up to be advocates. They weren't

901
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 4: prepared for this either. Nobody was prepared for it.

902
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: So we had to after we kind of got to

903
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: a point where we understood what we needed to do,

904
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: we had to educate them and we had to get

905
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,760
Speaker 1: them on board to understand the severity of the situation,

906
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: how long it was going to take for us to

907
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: get to some kind of a baseline.

908
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 4: And to their credit, they all stepped up. They all

909
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 4: figured it out. Everybody kind of learned their own. You know,

910
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 4: grandparents have to be brought on. Grandmother's they're they're just

911
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 4: completely you know, unflappable. Yeah, you know, grandpa's need to

912
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 4: kind of like recalibrate.

913
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: Like I did, played baseball until he was eleven and

914
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: then he was done.

915
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 4: So we did get to play catch, and we did

916
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: go to games, and I did get to do that

917
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,959
Speaker 4: with him, and we have had so many experiences.

918
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: We do travel with him. He gets to just all

919
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: he is.

920
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 4: A brilliant, brilliant kid and well young man now and

921
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 4: and we just we just figured it out. And then

922
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 4: we've turned what we've gone through into advocacy and just

923
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 4: done our best at like Trumpet where the resources are

924
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 4: because it's so isolating, right, you like the idea of

925
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 4: it can be really isolating. Your friends don't kind of

926
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 4: know if they can talk about this or be here

927
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 4: for that. They don't know why you're leaving at six

928
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 4: and not at nine when you normally head out after

929
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: a couple of glasses of what I mean, like it's

930
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 4: you just got to figure the things out.

931
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was it. I would say that it was.

932
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 1: It was difficult, but having a child is just difficult period.

933
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: But it's on this side.

934
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 4: Of it and what we've been experiencing over the especially

935
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 4: over the last like ten years, it's just been you know,

936
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 4: it's a refining process.

937
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: You get better at it. You know, it doesn't get easier,

938
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: you just get stronger, right right.

939
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 4: I mean you think and I think that that that

940
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 4: really characterizes what that whole journey has been for us

941
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 4: and continues to be.

942
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: Well. I love so many things that you said, and

943
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: I love the way you talk about are kiddos on

944
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:40,320
Speaker 2: the spectrum.

945
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 3: And you know a thing that really helped me.

946
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: Because you know when you said, the first thing I

947
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: thought of is will we be able to play catch?

948
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 3: You know, you have an idea of what.

949
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 2: Your kid's childhood's going to be like and what you're

950
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: going to be like as a parent, and you've got

951
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: to sort of confront Okay, does that change? But then

952
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: also I found what I found really helpful was letting

953
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: him guide me through the journey too, because I'm a fixer,

954
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: I'm a solver. And I realized, like my son, my

955
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 2: son's younger, he's ten, he has ticks as well, and

956
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago he was having some fairly

957
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 2: disruptive ticks that you'd notice and hear. And my solution was,

958
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 2: let's stay home for a couple of days. It's like

959
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,760
Speaker 2: third grade. Who cares stay home for a couple of days.

960
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: I don't need you to be suffering through the agony

961
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 2: of being watched or scrutinized or maybe even made fun of.

962
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: Like, you don't need that, It's fine.

963
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: His solution was, no, Mom, I want to go to

964
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: school and I want to give a presentation on my

965
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: tics and let my classmates know what's happening to me

966
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 2: and what, you know, what makes me feel good in

967
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 2: this moment. And it was so brave, and I almost

968
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 2: robbed him of that opportunity to be brave and so

969
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm so proud of him. But as parents, we want

970
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 2: to solve and fix. Yeah, And it was a good

971
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: reminder for me to be like, well, he might have

972
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: even better solutions that part than I have for every

973
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: challenge we're going to come up against.

974
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 3: Why don't I ask him first? You know?

975
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, But that's also first of all, that's just incredible

976
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 4: and it's beautiful, but also like we're not sort of

977
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 4: trained in the idea of what parents are supposed to do. Yeah,

978
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 4: but like I think the superpower and the shortcut to

979
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 4: all of this stuff is just meeting them where they

980
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: are exactly but you but not too long ago, you

981
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,160
Speaker 4: couldn't ask him what he'd prefer to do, right, So

982
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,560
Speaker 4: the growth that comes out of that is a testament

983
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 4: to like he's already advocating for himself totally, which is

984
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 4: you know, number one on the list. But two, like

985
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 4: you're learning to trust that he's not going to We

986
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 4: don't let our kids walk on the side of the

987
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 4: street on the sidewalk, We put them up against the building.

988
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 4: But now he knows the difference between stepping on the

989
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: curve and not, you know, so there's growth to be found,

990
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 4: and that's.

991
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: What's beautiful about it. I call it the beautiful struggle.

992
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 4: I borrow that phrase from from a great artist, Tulip Quality,

993
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 4: who named one of his albums after that. And it

994
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 4: happened right around the time that CJ. I discovered that album,

995
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 4: right around the time that CJ had been diagnosed, and

996
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,879
Speaker 4: it was like, oh, this is yeah, it's it's never

997
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:27,520
Speaker 4: not loaded.

998
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: It's never not loaded, you know what I mean.

999
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 4: And I can remember a time where I I kind

1000
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 4: of got in touch with the idea of what empathy

1001
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 4: for myself was because parents, we feel sorry for ourselves too,

1002
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 4: you know, not not because not in a woe is me,

1003
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 4: but that there's so much helplessness through the process of

1004
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 4: it that you can kind of slip into the like

1005
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 4: what did I do?

1006
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 1: Is it my fault? How do I get away? How

1007
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: do I make it better?

1008
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 4: How do I get us out of this crazy? You

1009
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 4: can't not that way anyway. You have to you have

1010
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 4: to learn a whole new way, and you're better. You're

1011
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 4: better for it totally. Your kids are better for it totally. Yes, Well,

1012
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 4: thank you for sharing that. That's really great and important.

1013
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 2: Let's lighten the mood with a lightning round before we

1014
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: say goodbye.

1015
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: Oh Lord, all right, m h, what's the.

1016
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 3: Best musical of all time? Besides Hamilton and in the.

1017
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: Heights He's trying to get me killed though.

1018
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 3: I'm taking those off the table.

1019
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:51,359
Speaker 1: Why because of specifically? And I could call you, you know,

1020
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: I could, I could get my swag back on.

1021
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: I mean, we love those two. But what else.

1022
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 4: It's gonna expose me? No, it is, no, I can't.

1023
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna try to answer your question. But you're

1024
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 4: gonna have to.

1025
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to either like leave this awkward, awkward

1026
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: pause or or cut it down. It's okay.

1027
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 4: I think of all time kind of puts it in

1028
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 4: a different thing. I'm gonna say, lion King.

1029
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 3: Oh that's a good one.

1030
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, lion King. I think that they did.

1031
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 4: I think what what we did, what Julie put forth

1032
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 4: was not was. I think it's beautiful because of its

1033
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,719
Speaker 4: simplicity and just how complex and how like truly like

1034
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 4: the theater thing that the theater devices she used are

1035
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,200
Speaker 4: thousands of years old and they worked so well.

1036
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, very cool. Yeah, yeah, good answer. I can't get

1037
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 3: you in any trouble. What's a Broadway role you haven't

1038
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: played but would like to.

1039
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, completely the one I haven't played yet. Great,

1040
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 4: most of the traditional roles don't work for me. Oh interesting,

1041
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 4: I don't think old musicals age.

1042
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 3: Well hold please pause right there.

1043
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 2: I could totally see you though, as either a Valjean

1044
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 2: or a Javert.

1045
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 3: Okay, no, you disagree.

1046
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm just not interested in it.

1047
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that's a different thing.

1048
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, yeah, like I'm not.

1049
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 4: I think the way we tell stories now has the

1050
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 4: potential to be more interesting in the way that musicals

1051
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 4: were written a long time ago. Yes, you could have

1052
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 4: the plot, take a five minutes or three minute break,

1053
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 4: sing a song about sparrows, and then come back to

1054
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 4: the plot. Whereas now we structure things we need to.

1055
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 4: We want to keep things moving, and that's why a

1056
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 4: lot of the rolls you have to do a lot

1057
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 4: of work as an actor to make them relevant and

1058
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 4: push move the things through. And they don't write a

1059
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:12,320
Speaker 4: lot of roles for black men in the forties and fifties.

1060
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 3: Yes, facts, Yes, so that love it?

1061
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: Okay, great, not a lightning round answer.

1062
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 2: Sorry, no, there's no right or wrong lightning round answer, This.

1063
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:23,320
Speaker 1: Is not a box is a brief kind of thing. Okay,

1064
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,240
Speaker 1: we can have real answers, sorry.

1065
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: Best real answers. Okay, favorite post theater meal, Grandma's.

1066
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: Lies from pats Aria's on forty sixth Street. Oh yes,

1067
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 4: all the garlic you can stand? Yes, and carbs right, yes?

1068
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, punishment absolutely.

1069
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 2: Who's funnier behind the scenes? Jonathan Groff, Lynn or dav Diggs.

1070
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: That's one, A, B and C.

1071
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 4: They're all idiots in their own way. The Davide is

1072
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 4: Davide is an assassin. Davide is an assassin with this,

1073
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 4: with this, with his funny, he's amazing. And Jonathan's just

1074
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 4: that smile and Lynn's Lynn so love it.

1075
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: Did you get to keep any of the clothes from

1076
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: and just like that?

1077
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: No? Once that many people have seen you wear something?

1078
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 3: What could you do anyway?

1079
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah?

1080
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, because you dress up when you hit a

1081
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 2: red carpet, I try, Oh I've seen try. Yes, Okay,

1082
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 2: what's the worst? What's your worst audience experience? Meaning an

1083
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: audience member who was awful or disruptive?

1084
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: Like, do you have one that you remember?

1085
00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: Pence came to the show a week after I left.

1086
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 4: I remember, yeah, not to say that he was an

1087
00:54:54,520 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 4: awful audience member, right understood, Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, I think.

1088
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Madonna was on her phone, right yeah.

1089
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 4: But that's a misunderstood situation too, okay, because I know

1090
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 4: from someone on the inside that there was a family

1091
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 4: issue that she that was dire that she was dealing with.

1092
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 4: Oh okay, so I give a little grace contact cast

1093
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,720
Speaker 4: members have been talking about it. Yeah, I just happened

1094
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 4: to know something about it. There have been people that

1095
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 4: have been sleeping in second or third row.

1096
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 1: I remember.

1097
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 4: I remember like it was like in the first month

1098
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 4: or so of him, and you know, because we come

1099
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 4: out so slowly and we're taking the audience in, and

1100
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 4: there was someone just there was.

1101
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 1: An older gentleman. It was just oh I just couldn't.

1102
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: He just couldn't get there.

1103
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 3: Does that mess with you?

1104
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: Nah? No, okay no, because someone told me, is like

1105
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: that guy could have saved five people's lives. He could

1106
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:54,240
Speaker 1: be a hard surgeon.

1107
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 4: He could have been surgery for twenty hours straight and

1108
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 4: then couldn't give the tickets up.

1109
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: So is going to be the best sleap of his life.

1110
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 3: What a great way of putting it.

1111
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is is because it can be affecting, you know,

1112
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 4: I'm sure.

1113
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1114
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 4: We were on stage last night in his kitchen and

1115
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 4: there was a woman as we were sitting at the

1116
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 4: dinner table, We're about to go into Fallen and as

1117
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 4: an older black lady, you could hear and she was

1118
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 4: just so in it, and she was talking in between

1119
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 4: every phrase, and it was so hard not to laugh

1120
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 4: because I knew she knew, because I knew who she

1121
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,399
Speaker 4: knew exactly what I was doing.

1122
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: And the rest of the audience was, you know, she

1123
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: was the only one.

1124
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 4: But she was like, yeah, yeah, go ahead and smile.

1125
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: We know what that is. Yeah, it was one of

1126
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: those lessons last night. It was amazing. It was amazing.

1127
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: It is amazing.

1128
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: If someone's coming backstage, what's a thing they should not do?

1129
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 4: Ooh uh, don't interrupt conversations with other people for an autograph.

1130
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: Wait, we're back there already. Yeah.

1131
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 4: I love seeing people after a show. But just be patient, Yes,

1132
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 4: be patient. Yeah, they shouldn't. They shouldn't push in on conversations. Yeah.

1133
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 2: Patti Lapone famously said that ovations are cheap in America,

1134
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: meaning we give standing ovations to freely and not everyone

1135
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: deserves them your thoughts.

1136
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 4: If you had said anybody but Patty, I'm sorry, miss Lapone,

1137
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:35,720
Speaker 4: I would probably have a better answer. I don't think

1138
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 4: it's our job to police audiences. I think if it's

1139
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 4: they're standing up because they're ready to go, that's fine.

1140
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 4: I think if they're standing up because it's now a

1141
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 4: new sort of trend, I think that's fine. I don't

1142
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:59,760
Speaker 4: think that you can come on stage, offer an idea

1143
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 4: and expression over a period of time, and then hold

1144
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 4: some requirement of how people should receive you. Yes, I

1145
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 4: don't think that's what ovations are meant to do. As

1146
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 4: I said earlier, I think that they are simply a

1147
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 4: affirmation that we've spent time together. Yes, that will never

1148
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 4: happen again. I do believe that people should be a

1149
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 4: little bit more on top of turning their damn phones off,

1150
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 4: of course, but I would never stop a performance to

1151
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 4: chastise an audience member for having their phone out. Because

1152
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 4: what the public doesn't know is that when we come

1153
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 4: off stage, we go to a stage manager and say

1154
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 4: there's somebody in that seat and they're filming, and then

1155
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 4: the usher comes down and takes the phone or makes

1156
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 4: them stop to stop a performance, I think is the

1157
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 4: most self aggrandizing thing that you can possibly don't It

1158
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 4: doesn't service anything or anyone. And I'm the first person

1159
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 4: to show deference and respect. But you know, as a

1160
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 4: as a fellow Broadway performer, who I've done a few shows.

1161
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've done a few thousand shows.

1162
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: Yep.

1163
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 6: Nobody has the right to pull the rest of the

1164
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 6: world out of this world that you've been creating, simply

1165
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 6: for you to get your your your fill of of

1166
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 6: wagging at people like later for that.

1167
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: That's it.

1168
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 4: If I was an audience member and saw that, I

1169
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 4: would be incredibly offended. Great answer.

1170
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 2: Okay, this is the last question. It's the most important question.

1171
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 2: We ask it at the end of every podcast. When

1172
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,120
Speaker 2: is it iced coffee season?

1173
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 4: Anytime you want to put some is a cup and

1174
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 4: a half some coffee.

1175
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: I prefer it in the afternoon. I prefer my iced

1176
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 1: coffee later in the day, you know, on the way

1177
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: to the theater, something like that. Anytime you want it.

1178
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 2: It's the correct answer. I knew you'd have the correct windows.

1179
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:52,800
Speaker 2: I knew you'd have the right answers.

1180
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: You can have any time you like, especially you.

1181
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 3: Yes, Christopher Jackson.

1182
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 2: This was This is absolutely delightful, highlight, a pleasure, a joy.

1183
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 3: We laughed, I cried. This was incredible. Thank you so much.

1184
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: You're the best. Keep doing what you're doing.

1185
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 3: You too.

1186
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 2: You bring so much joy to so many people, and

1187
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 2: we're just so grateful for you.

1188
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: Appreciate you. Thank you.

1189
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: Coming up next week on Off the Cup, we end

1190
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 2: our season with a very special guest. I get super personal,

1191
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: more personal if you can believe it, then I have

1192
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 2: all season with none other than.

1193
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 3: My husband, John Goodwin. On a scale of one to stant.

1194
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 3: No nervous, are you?

1195
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 4: Uh?

1196
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 3: Maybe a four to eight? Oh, four to eight is

1197
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 3: a wide swing.

1198
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it keeps going back and forth.

1199
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 2: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as

1200
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 2: part of the Reason Choice Network.

1201
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the.

1202
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native

1203
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 2: Land pod. For Off the Cup, I am your host,

1204
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 2: Se Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our

1205
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.

1206
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 2: Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or

1207
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 2: subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,