Speaker 1: On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and
Speaker 1: best start changing it with the Beck del Cast. Hey everyone, Hey,
Speaker 1: it's us. It's us Caitlin and Jamie and we wanted
Speaker 1: to do just a really quick intro for our episode
Speaker 1: that you're about to hear, because we went to Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Never heard of a nation's capital. A lot
Speaker 1: of sucked up stuff happening there, but we did a
Speaker 1: live show and that was much fucked up. That was cool,
Speaker 1: da good. So we went to the Drafthouse Comedy Theater
Speaker 1: in d C. So this is the episode that you
Speaker 1: are about to hear that we recorded live there. But
Speaker 1: before we do that, just a really quick plug for
Speaker 1: our upcoming West Coast tour. Yes, that's right. We are
Speaker 1: hitting three cities on the West Coast, the fun little
Speaker 1: vaca for us in between that you needed to know.
Speaker 1: On the we're going to be in San Francisco for
Speaker 1: Sketch Fest, covering the Breakfast club that's at Piano Fight,
Speaker 1: that's true. And then we're heading up the coast to Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: On January we are talking about fight Club and we're
Speaker 1: going to be at the Curious Comedy Theater. And finally
Speaker 1: on the January we'll be in Seattle, Washington. We're doing
Speaker 1: two shows. They're doing The Little Mermaid and Sleepless in Seattle.
Speaker 1: So choose your poison or you know, preferably good above fast.
Speaker 1: They are going fast for and that's not like like
Speaker 1: a thing that hey, we're just serious. Like at the
Speaker 1: time of this recording, the Little Mermaid shows almost sold out,
Speaker 1: so grab those tickets a sap um and you can
Speaker 1: do that by going to bectelcast dot com and click
Speaker 1: on the live appearances to up and we will see you.
Speaker 1: See there are right in enjoy our episode cast. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Beck Deel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Torante and you knew that. So
Speaker 1: that's here. We are in the flesh. How are you?
Speaker 1: How are you kid? I'm great. We just ate some
Speaker 1: burgers together and did um. Yeah, we were in Philadelphia
Speaker 1: last night. Now we're here. We got a small I
Speaker 1: I love a small whoop of association just like I
Speaker 1: also have been there. You were like hell yeah. Great.
Speaker 1: Oh there's a feminist icon gel shirt. We're she is
Speaker 1: a feminist ico. We were so. I saw you in
Speaker 1: the lobby wearing the shirt, and I first of all
Speaker 1: shocked anyone bought that shirt. And I'm so thrilled that
Speaker 1: someone bought it. And I'm pretty sure both people who
Speaker 1: bought that shirt, because they're only two we have met
Speaker 1: in person. Now just great, very high retention rate. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're still We're stoud to be here. Yeah, we're talking
Speaker 1: about The Nightmare before Christmas. Oh so, so clap if
Speaker 1: you saw the movie, using the movie, did your homework, etcetera.
Speaker 1: Now by round of applause. Who has not seen The
Speaker 1: Nightmare before Christmas? Okay, we heard jump be shy space, Yes,
Speaker 1: Queen go off, etcetera. Other platitudes. There will be a
Speaker 1: Caitlin's famous recap to clue everyone in who hasn't seen
Speaker 1: the movies. Nothing happens in this movie, and it's like,
Speaker 1: not a big deal. It's mostly expositional songs. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: is a lot of it. Caitlyn likes this No, okay,
Speaker 1: sorry sorry to out you as a hot topic manager,
Speaker 1: but Caitlyn likes this movie. I grew up well we'll
Speaker 1: get into our histories. But yeah, well you you know,
Speaker 1: but for any listeners at home, if you're not if
Speaker 1: you don't know what the show is, or if you
Speaker 1: don't because sometimes people bring a friend and they're like,
Speaker 1: why am I here? And who are these people? And
Speaker 1: you anyone else? Hi? Okay, hi, wait clap if you're random?
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, awesome, okay, okay, this will be fun. Okay.
Speaker 1: So we're annoying and that's all you need to know this.
Speaker 1: So we uh analyze famous movies using the Bechtel test
Speaker 1: as a popping to say, as a popping off point, up,
Speaker 1: jumping off, chumping off point right, as a popping off point.
Speaker 1: We pop off to the Bechtel test. Two SIPs of
Speaker 1: beer and I'm violently drunk. I don't know. Um. So
Speaker 1: we talked about the portrayal of women in movies, one
Speaker 1: movie at a time, and we use the Beckel test
Speaker 1: to initiate that conversation. The Bechtel test, being uh you
Speaker 1: plant to the movie requires that a movie has two
Speaker 1: named female identifying characters who speak to each other about
Speaker 1: something other than a man for just two lines of dialogue.
Speaker 1: That's our standard. That's our bar, very low bar. And
Speaker 1: yet you think many movies do not pass. Women may
Speaker 1: not be in the same room in some movies. Let's
Speaker 1: do a quick demo of the Bechtel test. Sure, Hey, hey, Jamie,
Speaker 1: there is a pimple I've been trying to manifest off
Speaker 1: of my face, okay, and it's not working. It's getting
Speaker 1: spitefully larger. I'm sorry. I think you're beautiful just the
Speaker 1: way you are. Well, not that a woman's beauty. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, should matter grasping at straws I do. It
Speaker 1: is an offensively large pimple that I have graciously covered,
Speaker 1: but it can speak as a face um that passes.
Speaker 1: The Betel doesn't have to be interesting or good. It
Speaker 1: just hads to be. It not about a man. Let's
Speaker 1: spread guess. Okay, she's a stand up comic right here
Speaker 1: in d C. And she's a writer and on air
Speaker 1: correspondent for the political satire show Redacted tonight on RT America.
Speaker 1: Give it up for Natalie McGill. Wow, such a warm reception.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Hi, thanks for being here. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: So tell us about your history, your relationship to this movie. Okay,
Speaker 1: so so full disclosure. I used to be like scared
Speaker 1: to like I avoided this movie like the Plague for
Speaker 1: the longest time because as a child I used to
Speaker 1: be like deathly afraid for some reason of like stop motion,
Speaker 1: any type of stop motion and like Claymation animation, So
Speaker 1: like for the longest time, like I couldn't deal with
Speaker 1: like California Raisins. I couldn't do California Raisins. I couldn't
Speaker 1: do any of the Christmas specials that airon CBS. I
Speaker 1: couldn't do Chicken Run. See all right, I have like
Speaker 1: a special place in my heart for like Chicken Run
Speaker 1: and uh, what's the other one? Andram like I get
Speaker 1: I get stomach those. But it was like even like
Speaker 1: like deep cuts like the claymation and like the Speed
Speaker 1: Demon music video and like like for Michael Jackson, like
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. So it was like a really
Speaker 1: long time before I watched the movie. Okay, so when
Speaker 1: did you see it? Probably saw like a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago. But like I don't know, Like the songs
Speaker 1: are kind of cheesy. I'm not gonna live, but like
Speaker 1: I could, I could kind of kind of kind of
Speaker 1: get into it. Jamie, what's your history? I thought I
Speaker 1: had seen this movie, but I have been to a
Speaker 1: hot topic that literally was my I was so sure.
Speaker 1: I was, like, for sure, I've seen this movie of core.
Speaker 1: I used to own a Jack Skellington sweatshirt. But it
Speaker 1: was just that I enjoyed the musical Fallout Boy, and
Speaker 1: that I had a crush on a skateboarder who was
Speaker 1: an assistant manager at Hot Topic. So I was lurking
Speaker 1: at the Hot Topic. And if you spend an hour
Speaker 1: in a hot Topic, you've basically seen this movie. But
Speaker 1: I haven't. I had him through the articles of clue
Speaker 1: like this story. No. I mean, well, based on Hot Topic,
Speaker 1: you would think that Jack and Sally have way more
Speaker 1: of a story than they do. But we'll get there.
Speaker 1: They're in like two scenes together, and he's like this
Speaker 1: short movie that feels forever. Uh, it's like seventy five
Speaker 1: minutes long. It's so it's just a ghoulish man being
Speaker 1: like I want to be Santa. You're like, what, it's
Speaker 1: a it's dumb. Anyways, I watched it this morning. Well,
Speaker 1: it was a movie of my childhood. I think it
Speaker 1: came out when I was like seven, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, my god, this is so cool
Speaker 1: and look at the skeleton and it's fun. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I loved it as a kid. The songs are cool.
Speaker 1: There's no argument to be made for the contrary. You're
Speaker 1: outnumbered on this stage. On stage, let's pull the audience.
Speaker 1: Who thinks the songs are dumb? Clap your hands. Okay
Speaker 1: we got a few people and that three who thinks
Speaker 1: the songs are great? Wow, lots more people. Thank you
Speaker 1: for your support. Well, I guess the shows we gotta go.
Speaker 1: Come on, he good at the santycause that's a great song.
Speaker 1: You're not like the songs and a Star is Born,
Speaker 1: but you're like, no, the songs Nightmare before Christmas, slap,
Speaker 1: Like that's just not true. I love that they played
Speaker 1: the song from A Star is Born on the radio
Speaker 1: as if it were a real song, Like do we
Speaker 1: not know this is a fake song. There's like thirty
Speaker 1: seconds of good music from that movie, and I love
Speaker 1: it so much. Anyways, this movie, yes, so it was
Speaker 1: a huge movie on my childhood, hadn't revisited in many years.
Speaker 1: Kind of forgot the story. And it's true, not a
Speaker 1: ton happens, but let's find out what does happen? Shall
Speaker 1: we Okay, Okay, it's going to recap. Yeah, Natalie, feel
Speaker 1: free to interrupt during the recap please. I like that.
Speaker 1: I'm always the person that's like, hey, let's just interrupt
Speaker 1: Caitlin as much as I need it. I yeah, if
Speaker 1: I were a dude up here, and that would not
Speaker 1: at all. We have a temporary embargo on male guests.
Speaker 1: That's just something maybe fans of the show. I've noticed
Speaker 1: we have a full embargo on men for a while.
Speaker 1: We got too many complaints. Okay, So The Nightmare Before Christmas,
Speaker 1: basically it's about a white man who appropriates another culture
Speaker 1: and much just like ruins everything. It doesn't help that
Speaker 1: he's white either. I always like a skeleton and bleached,
Speaker 1: could not be Whiter's the lightest ruins like ruins everything.
Speaker 1: And then it's like, whoopsee, thanks for helping me realize
Speaker 1: I don't like other cultures. But he was. He was
Speaker 1: oddly arrogant about it too, and he was like, nobody
Speaker 1: appreciated the work that I put into. You did a
Speaker 1: bad job. You have children heads like talking, and then
Speaker 1: the whole well, we'll get there. But the fact that
Speaker 1: Santa is trapped in the basement with the Boogeyman who
Speaker 1: has Dice and then is freed, and then Santa is like, no,
Speaker 1: Worri's gotta go, and then he's just like He's like
Speaker 1: it's fine, It's yeah. There's like before I go home,
Speaker 1: I would like press charges. I would have done something
Speaker 1: regally told him there Jack Kellington should be in prison.
Speaker 1: It's true. So the story takes place in the world
Speaker 1: where every major US holiday, uh, including Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving, yeah,
Speaker 1: and every something else that I feel like it's like
Speaker 1: specific just to the US, Like St. Patrick's Day, I
Speaker 1: feel like isn't really celebrated anywhere else. What is St
Speaker 1: Patrick's Day world? Like? Well, that's I think that's what
Speaker 1: fascinated me so much about this movie because I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to go. I want to see a movie
Speaker 1: about like what the other worlds are like, and then
Speaker 1: like missed opportunity for a franchise. I don't think we
Speaker 1: can agree. Just a bunch of angry white dudes trying
Speaker 1: to claim Irish heritage and just puking green like everywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's two like Christianity worlds. There's Christmas World and there's Easter,
Speaker 1: which could be very grim. Uh. We see a bunny.
Speaker 1: But there's other ship that goes on and around Easter
Speaker 1: that is not so festive. Yeah, like Stigmata Jesus. Maybe
Speaker 1: also this one. Okay, this is getting ahead a little bit.
Speaker 1: But there's like a part of this movie where everyone
Speaker 1: at hall and it's not Halloween Town. That's a better
Speaker 1: movie than this. Um, it's called Halloween Town. And there's
Speaker 1: anyone who who's a matron, any matrons here? You've heard
Speaker 1: our Halloween Town episode? Yeah, both Disney movies, and they
Speaker 1: recycled the name. I mean, it is a bad name.
Speaker 1: But but there's like a part where they think Jack Skellington.
Speaker 1: They're like, he's gonna die. I was like, isn't everyone
Speaker 1: here dead? Why is that a problem? Because at the
Speaker 1: beginning they're like we're all dead and that is cool,
Speaker 1: and then at the end they're like, no, he's gonna die.
Speaker 1: Like but he was dead, right this movie is sorry? Okay,
Speaker 1: So we meet Jack Skellington. He's like the icon Jack Skellington. Um,
Speaker 1: he is like the highly Revere. He's like the celebrity.
Speaker 1: He's the Pumpkin King. Yeah yeah, yeah, what does that?
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a city it's a town that
Speaker 1: has a king and mayor that's just like London. I think,
Speaker 1: what is democracy? What are the polls like? Down? So
Speaker 1: the thing is he's tired of Halloween and he's like,
Speaker 1: are you long for something more? And then we also
Speaker 1: meet Sally. Um, she's like this like patchwork quill Lady's dall.
Speaker 1: It's just an excuse to like, we can there's one
Speaker 1: female character in this story, and we can rip her
Speaker 1: apart whenever we want. Very scary. Um yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean the introduction to Sally is she literally has her
Speaker 1: arm torn off when she's trying to get away from someone.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh cool, let's set the tone. And she
Speaker 1: admires Jack from Afar, but she is basically enslaved by
Speaker 1: a mad scientist who created her in his lab. So
Speaker 1: he's a man in stem boo okay, but she's a
Speaker 1: she's a woman in stem because she makes potions, which
Speaker 1: is what scientists do. Yeah, because she's actively trying to
Speaker 1: like poison him and escape a lot of poisoning in
Speaker 1: this movie, a lot of roof being the boss. It's
Speaker 1: a very abusive relationship. Yeah, it's basically did anyone see
Speaker 1: Phantom Thread? Because the relationship between her and the scientists
Speaker 1: is basically phantom thread a deep cut, good job, Caitlin. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Jack stumbles upon the entrances to the other holiday
Speaker 1: worlds and he's like, really, let me walk into the woods. Sure,
Speaker 1: and then he finds the second act of the movie. Right,
Speaker 1: he sees the door that looks like a Christmas tree.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, what's that's all about? And then he
Speaker 1: gets sucked into it and he ends up in Christmas Town.
Speaker 1: Secular religion, right, just takes your right in, just like
Speaker 1: a vortex that's so shiny. How can he resist? So
Speaker 1: he he's like, what's this? There's a song literally called that,
Speaker 1: and then he discovers what Christmas is all about, and
Speaker 1: then he returns to Halloween Town. He's like, hey, everyone,
Speaker 1: I found this cool new holiday. Let's appropriate it. And
Speaker 1: everyone's like, okay, whatever you say, pump king king. But
Speaker 1: they kind of mess it up at first, like he
Speaker 1: doesn't explain it very well because I only spent like
Speaker 1: twenty minutes there. He's like a vice reporter. He like,
Speaker 1: it goes there, does a lap. He's like, I think
Speaker 1: I get it, and then he got mad at them
Speaker 1: for not understanding it, Like you don't understand He's like,
Speaker 1: nobody's actually really cool, guys. He was there for no time.
Speaker 1: He didn't even appear to have spent the night. No
Speaker 1: oh yeah, I think he was just there for a
Speaker 1: few minutes. Yet. So then he's like, yeah, let's let's
Speaker 1: instead of doing Halloween this year, I just take over Christmas.
Speaker 1: So he he like commissions Sally to make him a
Speaker 1: Santa Claus outfit, even though she's like psychic. She has
Speaker 1: a premonition, she sees the future, and she has like
Speaker 1: a vision that his Christmas is gonna go bad, go
Speaker 1: up in flames basically, and then he's like, uh huh,
Speaker 1: make my suit. And that's their first scene together, one
Speaker 1: of like three scenes that they have together. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is I think it's like at least halfway into the movie.
Speaker 1: I think it takes a while for them to be
Speaker 1: on screen together. She's kind of following him around for
Speaker 1: a while, She's sending up various potions to his she
Speaker 1: sends up like a picnic mask. It. Also, it kind
Speaker 1: of reminded me that scene of like say, like I
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys seen say yes to the
Speaker 1: dress or like somebody will getting married in like two days,
Speaker 1: and they have it under two thousand dollar budget, like
Speaker 1: find me this dress, Like, no, that's not how it works.
Speaker 1: She's the miracle worker. She makes the Santa Claus suit happen.
Speaker 1: She does it, and then he goes he gets these
Speaker 1: three kids, lock Stock and Barrel to kidnap the real
Speaker 1: Santa Claus and they do that, and then they're like,
Speaker 1: why did they get the Easter Bunny on the wrong
Speaker 1: Christian world? Right? So then then they get Santa Claus
Speaker 1: and they're like, here, Oggie Boogie, have him Oogie Bookie.
Speaker 1: And then you're like, oh, this movie doesn't have a
Speaker 1: villain yet. Uh, And then you're like, wait, I thought
Speaker 1: Jack Skellington was the villain. But then the movie is
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, it's Oogie Boogie. So with with
Speaker 1: Santa Claus gone, now Jack Skellington could be like, hey, kids,
Speaker 1: I'm doing Christmas now. It reminded me of when squid
Speaker 1: Word dressed up as Santa except squid Word is a
Speaker 1: queer icon and Jack Skellington isn't. So Jack is like
Speaker 1: ruining Christmas. He's like giving all the kids like decapitated
Speaker 1: heads and like bats and stuff. And meanwhile Sally goes
Speaker 1: and tries to save Santa Claus because she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: my boyfriend who I love, or like this guy, I'm
Speaker 1: not her boyfriend. She doesn't really It takes a while
Speaker 1: to figure out if they even know each other, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I thought when I was watching this movie today
Speaker 1: when she sends up the basket and then he sees
Speaker 1: her and then he looks back and she's gone, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe they haven't met, right, But then
Speaker 1: they're like, oh no, he does know who she is.
Speaker 1: He just doesn't care. She's actively stalking him and he
Speaker 1: ignores her. Is the nature of their relationship for most
Speaker 1: of the movie. It is like how I behaved with
Speaker 1: that hot topic manager. I would be at the hot topic,
Speaker 1: which I shouldn't have been, but I was acting like
Speaker 1: I wanted items I don't know. I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: like I am a goth. It'd be like weird because
Speaker 1: you're wearing a back brace. So Jack is fucking up
Speaker 1: Christmas and the Christmas town fights back and he's like,
Speaker 1: oh no, what have I done. There's probably a lesson
Speaker 1: to be learned here, but I didn't learn this town
Speaker 1: or just like human world, where they're just like it's
Speaker 1: the news and they're like, I think that's the human
Speaker 1: world at that point, delivering it like all the presents,
Speaker 1: like the actual boys and girls. I found that weird.
Speaker 1: It's like Christmas Town, no response really from Christmas Town.
Speaker 1: And we know that Santa Claus for some reason, Santa's
Speaker 1: wife has given a name, even though we never even
Speaker 1: see her. But he's like Kathleen, and I'm like Kathleen,
Speaker 1: and then he's kidnapped, but she is a named female
Speaker 1: character who never appears and never does anything. Wait, I'm
Speaker 1: still trying to his wife. I'm still trying to process.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I thought that like in Christmas Town,
Speaker 1: Christmas is only celebrated and everyone's just like Christmas all
Speaker 1: the time, Like they don't go to the outside world.
Speaker 1: Same thing. I think that it's just all your long,
Speaker 1: they're gearing up for that one thing. So I think
Speaker 1: that's how Halloween Town was. Like, so when the movie
Speaker 1: starts like we're coming up on Halloween. So then they
Speaker 1: go out, okay, I'm learning, the mayor shows up and
Speaker 1: then he is like days yeah, and I was like,
Speaker 1: so I thought that was kind of comical. Because to me, like,
Speaker 1: that's the dude you want on like your nonprofit who
Speaker 1: when you're like planning like an annual meeting, because he's
Speaker 1: there like the day right after, like all right, let's
Speaker 1: prepared for next year. And I was like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is a little over zealous, but well, Plie will be prepared.
Speaker 1: I thought the mirror was going to end up being
Speaker 1: bad because of his two heads, but it turns out
Speaker 1: he's just got two heads. Yeah, and I let my
Speaker 1: implicit two head bias informed my viewing. Well, I'm glad
Speaker 1: you learned something today. I learned something today. We're all growing.
Speaker 1: So Jack funked up Christmas and he's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: I funked up. I have to go back to Halloween Town.
Speaker 1: And then he saves Sally and Santa Claus from Oogie
Speaker 1: Boogie and then Sally almost saves Santa Claus. Yes movies
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, you cannot do the real save
Speaker 1: wait for the skinny guy to get back. Yeah. My
Speaker 1: favorite part of that was like after they were like
Speaker 1: need Like the first thing out of Santa's mouth was
Speaker 1: like you should have been listening to her the entire time,
Speaker 1: Like that isn't that always how it is. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then Santa's like, anyways, peace and like levitates away? Yeah. Also,
Speaker 1: why didn't he levitate away sooner? If you could levitate away,
Speaker 1: why was it a problem? Yeah, A good question. So
Speaker 1: then Jack's like, I'm gonna be the Pumpkin King again
Speaker 1: because I love Halloween again. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: end of the movie. Oh, Jack and Sally they do kiss.
Speaker 1: She sings a song of like I love him, and
Speaker 1: then he sings a song the third song of the
Speaker 1: movie that's like I want to be Santa. Their motivations
Speaker 1: are at odds. It's like we've all been in a
Speaker 1: relationship where you are doing all the work and your
Speaker 1: romantic partner wants to be Santa Claus like, we want
Speaker 1: different things. We should just separate a tale as old
Speaker 1: as time. And on that note, let's take a quick break.
Speaker 1: What do you say? Good? All right? Okay, So I
Speaker 1: want to talk about So Sally is really the only
Speaker 1: female character there? There is one of the three like Tricker,
Speaker 1: treat Kids, scram, there's Lock, Shock, and Barrel. I might
Speaker 1: have said Stock before Shock is the shock. Yes. She
Speaker 1: is voiced by Catherine O'Hara as is Sally. Which okay,
Speaker 1: if you're casting a voice actor, there's no excuse to
Speaker 1: not cast someone who can sing because you don't have
Speaker 1: to see their face, right, Like, it's like Catherine Sally's
Speaker 1: song I think is unlistenable because she's basically a high
Speaker 1: school soprano, like really reaching for those top notes like
Speaker 1: Jack's cool. You're like, oh my god, it's like a
Speaker 1: bad middle school commencer. It's it's uh, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is you know, but it's shrill. That is yeah, sure
Speaker 1: that her I mean we all agree mostly that the
Speaker 1: songs are great, but her song it could use some work.
Speaker 1: Shore it's a little Pitchie dog like it is so
Speaker 1: in in the town of Halloween Town, we've got Shock,
Speaker 1: one of the trick or treat kids, We've got Sally,
Speaker 1: We've got a few like witches and hags, and one
Speaker 1: shape of water looking creature. Yes I saw that. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've noticed, and there, of course you did. And all
Speaker 1: we really see them do is like fan girl over
Speaker 1: Jack Skellington. But to be fair, everyone fan girls over,
Speaker 1: like the whole town is like Jack, we love you,
Speaker 1: and they need to calm down, right. What we never
Speaker 1: see is why that is like there because at the
Speaker 1: beginning he comes out and everyone's like, who, he's great,
Speaker 1: and then we never really see a demonstration of like
Speaker 1: what's he great at, what's he do? What's his skill? Uh?
Speaker 1: He sings about how awesome he is, so we talk
Speaker 1: about a metaphor for other things. It's like, I mean,
Speaker 1: he says he's awesome a lot, so he's probably done something.
Speaker 1: But if you were to he exclusively fucked stuff up
Speaker 1: and then forgives himself. Like there's that whole The songs
Speaker 1: are so bad because there's like that song where he's
Speaker 1: like he fox up Christmas and scares every living child
Speaker 1: and then was to like a graveyard and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I sucked at Christmas, but I am great anyways, I
Speaker 1: am not sorry and over just like the message of
Speaker 1: the song perhaps is not great, but the melody wow,
Speaker 1: the composition yes. And then the ghost Dog, like even
Speaker 1: the ghost Dog I like to think was not on
Speaker 1: board with what was zero zero? And I mean, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about zero, let's just watch holes, like right,
Speaker 1: Hector ZERONEI hello? Zero from Holes was like such a
Speaker 1: childhood crush of mine. I was like like, Shaya, move away. Oh,
Speaker 1: sometimes I were like, but shya, but shia, but also
Speaker 1: Zero was it was the was the true Katie of
Speaker 1: the movie. The Zero's nose glow the entire time from
Speaker 1: the start. Yeah, okay, because so he didn't realize that
Speaker 1: when he was supposed to go on the sleigh, right,
Speaker 1: he was like, Oh, your nose glow super Like, how dog?
Speaker 1: If you owned this dog is nose who's glowing the
Speaker 1: entire time? Right? They established it really early on because
Speaker 1: in a really hilarious visual joke, Jack Skellington rips out
Speaker 1: one of his own ribs and throws it and then
Speaker 1: Zero can't find it at first, but then he uses
Speaker 1: the light of his nose to find it. You can't
Speaker 1: like supplant every joke possible with like what if it
Speaker 1: were Bones? Like that can't just be the joke. But
Speaker 1: that's like every joke in this movie. Really, you've never
Speaker 1: seen the Bones? Is that all? It is? Just bones?
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've never seen it. Is that. I
Speaker 1: think it's about Oh, no, cup, if you've seen Bones, okay,
Speaker 1: that's about is it doctor Bones? Nick named Bones? Okay,
Speaker 1: so there's a man named Bones. And I was like,
Speaker 1: I think it's just about a guy named Bones. I
Speaker 1: think they're looking at bones though anyway, So anyways, bones jokes,
Speaker 1: I'm over it. So I wanted to talk about the
Speaker 1: active choices that we see Sally make, because she does
Speaker 1: make some. First, she tries to poison the doctor's tea
Speaker 1: the first time. This happens a lot. Then she runs
Speaker 1: away from him by pulling her own arm off. Then
Speaker 1: she poisons his soup, tricks him into eating it and
Speaker 1: with a whole with the red that she had ready
Speaker 1: shut whatever, and then she escapes out the window, sows
Speaker 1: herself throws. Yeah, that seemed genuinely bothers me. Where there's
Speaker 1: so much like God, I mean, we're talking about this backstage,
Speaker 1: but like Tim Burton's never ending quest to seem interesting,
Speaker 1: like the fucking like goth Edge Lord of the World.
Speaker 1: Like it's just it goes without saying he sucks, but like,
Speaker 1: but the way he like glorifies just like doing him
Speaker 1: what any other case would be a suicide. He's like
Speaker 1: is played for a joke in this and that bugged
Speaker 1: me a lot where it's and also it's our only
Speaker 1: female character. It's like, does it pass the Bettel test
Speaker 1: if the only female character flings herself out a window
Speaker 1: like that's I don't know, didn't like that, didn't know
Speaker 1: it wasn't okay. So before she flew flung herself out,
Speaker 1: she had like all the like her potions and stuff,
Speaker 1: and she had like a Pulley system and she like, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely lowered that down. I was like, why couldn't you,
Speaker 1: Why couldn't you get right? Why did you have to
Speaker 1: because I guess she has to demonstrate her sewing skills.
Speaker 1: She had the technology that I simply don't know. God,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that was dumb. So then she shows her
Speaker 1: back together after she flings herself out of the window,
Speaker 1: brings the picnic basket to Jack. But then it's like
Speaker 1: t by like runs away, I shot. It's like a
Speaker 1: Jane Austen novel. So up until this point, none of
Speaker 1: these choices have really influenced the story. But then whenever
Speaker 1: Jack is like, hey better go, you know, ruined appropriate
Speaker 1: another culture, She's like, no, this is a bad idea
Speaker 1: because she's had that premonition. And then she adds something
Speaker 1: to like the cauldron to create the fog, but he's like,
Speaker 1: it was juice twist, it's fog juice. But then that
Speaker 1: obstacle is like immediately overcome because he's like, oh, I've
Speaker 1: got my dog who I just remembered has a light
Speaker 1: bulb on his face, and the reindeer just a regular reindeer.
Speaker 1: But wait, there's a twist their bones. Dumbass movie, and
Speaker 1: then we already kind of touched on this. But at
Speaker 1: the end, she does try to save Santa Claus, who's
Speaker 1: being imprisoned by the Boogeyman. But then she gets pretty
Speaker 1: close and she's like doing interesting stuff where she like
Speaker 1: uses her skills to like but also she uses like
Speaker 1: female sexuality by removing her leg to make the what's
Speaker 1: this the gobba ghoul? What's his name? She tries to
Speaker 1: get him horny with her detached leg. Yes, so you're
Speaker 1: just like sure, right, and then but then she uses
Speaker 1: her hands to like untie the thing. So she comes close,
Speaker 1: but then she ends up getting captured herself, and I
Speaker 1: guess sews herself back together because the next time we
Speaker 1: see also Santa could fly the whole time, right, But
Speaker 1: that brings up the fact that, like most of Sally's
Speaker 1: skills that we see her do in the movie are
Speaker 1: like very domestic or like traditionally feminine because she's either
Speaker 1: always making food slash potions or sewing stuff, but there
Speaker 1: is like, I don't know, it's weird because the way
Speaker 1: she's asked to prepare food, but then she does a
Speaker 1: science experiment instead in an attempt to murder, so that
Speaker 1: that I feel like it is like not total domestic
Speaker 1: or it's like hardcore domestics extreme domestic, and then she
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's weird and frustrating because she has
Speaker 1: other skills but no one cares about them or values them.
Speaker 1: And at the end of the movie that's kind of unchanged,
Speaker 1: where we know that she can do chemical she has
Speaker 1: fogges and a frog's breath whatever, She's got all this
Speaker 1: science stuff, and then we also know she can predict
Speaker 1: the future and has preminent sans. But every interaction she
Speaker 1: has with Jackie, she's literally like Christmas is over and
Speaker 1: he's like, ha ha ha, can you sew this for me?
Speaker 1: And he doesn't change in that regard at all. Right, Definitely,
Speaker 1: I would argue though, that having a premonition is like
Speaker 1: still sort of like a feminine trade because it's like
Speaker 1: a woman's intuition. Maybe have you seen that so raven?
Speaker 1: Because for her it's a defined skill, it's a superpower. Sure,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, good point. How but well that
Speaker 1: begs the question, how many female characters do we see
Speaker 1: having clairvoyance like that versus how many male characters? That's true?
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't. I don't want men to
Speaker 1: be able to know what the future is if anyone's
Speaker 1: going to have the power. But I think it's sort
Speaker 1: of like coded like that, Like clairvoyance is sort of
Speaker 1: coded as like a woman's intuition, and maybe there's nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that. I don't know. We'll we'll figure this
Speaker 1: out in a later episode as we see more of
Speaker 1: this and discuss it further. I don't it's well, I
Speaker 1: guess miss Sally, it's kind of unclear what because she
Speaker 1: is the a man's creation that seems to gain sentience
Speaker 1: beyond her creator, and there's like kind of some born
Speaker 1: sexy Yesterday vibes about the way she is created. It's
Speaker 1: unclear what she knows is like programmed into her and
Speaker 1: what she knows that she's learned. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if like she was programmed clairvoyant or and I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe that's why, Like later on, when he creates
Speaker 1: like a whole other like woman like and then like
Speaker 1: uses like half of his brain and like puts it
Speaker 1: in there. So he has like his idea of like
Speaker 1: an ideal woman, whereas like she ended up carving some
Speaker 1: type of independence on her own, even though she was
Speaker 1: still kind of domestic. Right, she does escape, which is cool, yeah,
Speaker 1: but then his like Mrs pac Man that he makes
Speaker 1: is very creepy. His identical twin question mark. Also, they
Speaker 1: both have half of a brain, So it's like these
Speaker 1: like lobotomized people just like like there's no way they're smart,
Speaker 1: just what I'm saying. But who here would pay to
Speaker 1: see a sex tape of them? I don't see any hands? Okay,
Speaker 1: that did occur to me, there's something there, Okay, cool
Speaker 1: to see. Yeah, I guess with the mad sign, do
Speaker 1: we ever learn his name Finkelstein? Okay, so Frankenstein basically okay,
Speaker 1: got it? Yeah, So he like definitely views her as
Speaker 1: his property and like wants her to be very obedient,
Speaker 1: and I guess the fact that she's not and that
Speaker 1: she's defiant is good, but like it's a low bar.
Speaker 1: That's where I mean. There are moments where I was
Speaker 1: like I think that it's trying to make common terry
Speaker 1: on something like even when I don't like the scene
Speaker 1: where she leaps out of the tower, but that almost
Speaker 1: felt like a commentary on like how princesses are always
Speaker 1: you know, trapped in towers and have to be rescued
Speaker 1: and she leaps from it, and so feminism there's like
Speaker 1: some really like empty like Tim Burton being like, right,
Speaker 1: you're just like now you've missed it. Man. She's also
Speaker 1: she's also made of leaves. Does anyone else catch that
Speaker 1: she leaves inside of her every time she like falls apart,
Speaker 1: Like there's leaves that come out. She's like a scarecrow.
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's not straw. Watch the movie again. She's
Speaker 1: made out of leaves. Also wears the show Leaves follow
Speaker 1: up to bones Um. Sally's a weird character. It's weird
Speaker 1: because it's like one of those characters where, like we've
Speaker 1: talked about a million times, it's the only female character
Speaker 1: we've really see that has narrative impact. She's pretty much
Speaker 1: exclusively defined by how she relates to the men around her,
Speaker 1: and there's like elements of her character that we're given
Speaker 1: that are cool and interesting and just go completely not
Speaker 1: addressed or explored really at all, right, right, right, And
Speaker 1: like we said before, they don't interact on screen together
Speaker 1: Jack and Sally until like halfway through the movie, and
Speaker 1: even in that scene, he's extremely condescending to her. She's like,
Speaker 1: you probably shouldn't like steal other people's like cultures, and
Speaker 1: he's like, make the thing. And then he's like this
Speaker 1: part is red and this part is white, and like
Speaker 1: here's how it looks like. And she's like, dog, I know,
Speaker 1: but like, don't steal other people's cultures. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like the whole like she's stalking him thing. And
Speaker 1: then he doesn't return any like romantic feelings for her
Speaker 1: until the very end, whenever he's impressed that she came
Speaker 1: to save him as far as I could. Hell, but
Speaker 1: but the end, he doesn't even finish this end and
Speaker 1: he's like, wow, you're and then it's like I don't
Speaker 1: know why these two people are about to kiss, but
Speaker 1: we got him to kiss, and then they do, and
Speaker 1: then the movie is really forced at the end, like
Speaker 1: you didn't have to end that way, really, but then
Speaker 1: it's a Disney movie, so you kind of have. But
Speaker 1: like everyone's a I am away message was like looking
Speaker 1: for the Jack to my Sally you but that's the
Speaker 1: thing like Sally's I think she has the one song
Speaker 1: in the movie. Maybe there's a reprise I don't remember,
Speaker 1: but it's about how like, oh ar me and Jack
Speaker 1: going to end up together? I don't know. And then
Speaker 1: all of his songs are like, here's how fucking awesome
Speaker 1: I am. Here's a new thing I discovered and how
Speaker 1: cool I think it is, like here's the things I
Speaker 1: longed for? Like and he never expresses any interest in
Speaker 1: a romantic relationship. Ever. There's a song that comes right
Speaker 1: off Sally's Pitchy Nightmare about how she's horny. That could
Speaker 1: so easily be Jack being like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: I also would like love, but he doesn't. The song
Speaker 1: right after the horny song is like I still want
Speaker 1: to be Santa Claus. He's kind of like Vhall selling it.
Speaker 1: By my view, he's in his tower, he's doing experiments.
Speaker 1: He's just not interested in a relationship with asexual icon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's or he could just be like, uh, oh, what's
Speaker 1: that Reddit board? No fapping like that. That's the one
Speaker 1: where men convince themselves that if they don't jerk off
Speaker 1: for long enough, they'll like develop superpowers. They're like, I
Speaker 1: can't come until there was literally a guy that told
Speaker 1: me what He's like, Hey, I really like you, but
Speaker 1: unfortunately I cannot do anything sexual until I'm the best
Speaker 1: guitarist in Chicago. So we're so we're assuming he's still
Speaker 1: not fucking d No. Jack seemed to me to be
Speaker 1: one of those kind of guys. Yeah, I can't funk
Speaker 1: till I'm Santa, and then he becomes Santa and that's
Speaker 1: why he's able to that's at the end. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: posted to get like a band. Like dude trying to
Speaker 1: start a band vibe from Jackson Ellington from the start,
Speaker 1: and then I kind of was like, well, Sally wants
Speaker 1: to get with him, that's great, but it's like a
Speaker 1: lifetime of her going to like shitty concerts for like
Speaker 1: the rest of her life and then pretending to like
Speaker 1: the songs even though she's heard them like a thousand times,
Speaker 1: Like that's her future. Uh real Quickly also kind of
Speaker 1: touched on this, but like the ending, whenever Sally is
Speaker 1: like tied up, she's very damseled, like Jack literally has
Speaker 1: to come in and like save her and untie her.
Speaker 1: From The Bad Guy. Very boring slow fight scene. Right.
Speaker 1: Oh but that okay, So that scene at the end
Speaker 1: with the oogy boogeyman still haunts me to this day.
Speaker 1: Whenever he like his thing unravels and then he's filled
Speaker 1: with bugs, so you're either made of leaves or bugs
Speaker 1: or bones and tell him like the all of his
Speaker 1: like he died atom by Adam. I liked that part, like, all,
Speaker 1: if he's dead, we've got less than ten minutes ago,
Speaker 1: I Natalie, I totally agree with like the I don't know,
Speaker 1: like when you're a kid and you have like having
Speaker 1: a stop motion aversion. I used to be really scared
Speaker 1: of like only happened in the eighties and nineties where
Speaker 1: there be like animals and they'd be live action animals,
Speaker 1: but they'd have computer animated mouths like in the movie
Speaker 1: Cats and Dogs. That is not good. What about Babe
Speaker 1: or Babe Pig in the city. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you can't because they're just there's just like long shots
Speaker 1: of living animals digitally manipulated to say things. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's scary. I think we talked about this on the
Speaker 1: Men in Black episode with the little little Pug dog
Speaker 1: who's like that's a great example of that being very scary,
Speaker 1: and the cat and Stewart little was my like ultimate
Speaker 1: no even even the cute, even the cuteness, so it
Speaker 1: couldn't overpower nothing. You can't do it. Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie,
Speaker 1: you take a break please, Yes, we can't. Discourse is exhausting.
Speaker 1: Seeing a sack and we're back. I feel refreshed. Yes.
Speaker 1: I wanted to also talk about like the animation and
Speaker 1: the way that Sally looks esthetically, where like the different
Speaker 1: creatures of Halloween Town, like they come in all shapes
Speaker 1: and sizes, but like Sally's body type and her proportions
Speaker 1: are still like it's still adhered to like the ideal
Speaker 1: like western standard of beauty. They're literally people like shaped
Speaker 1: like sorry, game pieces, like just walking around the town.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy people do whatever, by the way, But yeah,
Speaker 1: but she was like model proportioned, like it didn't make
Speaker 1: any sense. So boot It's like an in Ghostbusters where
Speaker 1: there's like all these actual cartoony looking ghosts and then
Speaker 1: there's just like a woman with tits like huge who
Speaker 1: sucks off a Ghostbuster and you're just like, why is
Speaker 1: this the only female ghosts, And I want to be clear,
Speaker 1: I don't mean boo to that body type. I mean
Speaker 1: boo to that being the only representation we see on
Speaker 1: screen of women who can be like romantically appealing, the
Speaker 1: only option. Yeah, she's also like one of the only
Speaker 1: women who lives. There is kind of a Smurfett vibe
Speaker 1: to that. But there are witches and hags, yes, and
Speaker 1: the one shape of water creature who we have to
Speaker 1: imagine is like the funk lord of the town. She's like,
Speaker 1: bring me an egg. God, I need to see that
Speaker 1: movie again. It's so horny. Yeah, it is like frustrating.
Speaker 1: And then the only other female character we really have
Speaker 1: is the one Tricker Treater, who it's worth mentioning is
Speaker 1: the brains of that operation as well, where the three
Speaker 1: Tricker Treaters, Uh, you know, she is kind of in
Speaker 1: charge and they funk up. But every time they funk up,
Speaker 1: she's like, see, I told you we shouldn't have kidnapped
Speaker 1: the Easter Bunny and you're like, Okay, I guess the
Speaker 1: movie is not over. But but even in that, like
Speaker 1: Sally is, Santa says that has to be true. Santa says,
Speaker 1: like she's the smart one and we as an audience, No,
Speaker 1: she's the smart one. Uh. And then even in the
Speaker 1: Tiny Little Trick or Treating Coven, the one woman there
Speaker 1: is the smart one and no one listens to her.
Speaker 1: So just kind of how this movie goes. Well, there's
Speaker 1: a question then, like if she is the smart one,
Speaker 1: why isn't the why isn't it her story? Or like
Speaker 1: why isn't the movie about her? And like from her perspective?
Speaker 1: Because Tim Burton made his Tim Burton Because because this
Speaker 1: is another I would argue Christmas themed male redemption story.
Speaker 1: We see it in The Christmas Girl, we see it
Speaker 1: with the Grinch, but it's like these Christmas figures who
Speaker 1: are like he hate it things and nobody likes me.
Speaker 1: But at the end, I'm going to have a heart
Speaker 1: and everyone would like me because I've redeemed myself. This
Speaker 1: isn't quite that's just queer though, queer baby Grinch, not
Speaker 1: adult grunch. That's not how that works. This is these
Speaker 1: are your rules. But I mean, this isn't so much
Speaker 1: a male redemption story in The Nightmare Before Christmas because
Speaker 1: people already fucking love Jack Skellington, and by the end
Speaker 1: they love him even more. But it's all these like
Speaker 1: uninteresting characters who were like, I'm a shitty man. How
Speaker 1: about I learned something and then people will like me?
Speaker 1: And I just don't know why we have so many
Speaker 1: of those stories when there are smart women like Sally
Speaker 1: whose stories we need to hear. I don't know, do
Speaker 1: we need to hear or Sally's story She's made of leaves? Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that the smartest decision made with this franchise
Speaker 1: is to not continue and after Man. But like nine
Speaker 1: year old Caitlin would have loved the Nightmare before Easter,
Speaker 1: the Nightmare before St. Patrick's Day, the Nightmare before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: It would be funny if Jack Skellington just got really
Speaker 1: into Irish people. He's like, guys, ever heard of Ireland?
Speaker 1: It's great? Like none of that ship is making it
Speaker 1: into the Disney Vault ever. Yeah, those are like straight
Speaker 1: to videos sequels. Look, I just I think there could
Speaker 1: have been a franchise. It was a missed opportunity anyway.
Speaker 1: That's like, unfortunately, there's not much to talk about in
Speaker 1: a movie that has one woman who's on screen for
Speaker 1: like eleven minutes. Yeah, there's really not that my to say.
Speaker 1: I mean other than I mean, I think like culturally
Speaker 1: there has been such a glorification of the Sally Jack
Speaker 1: relationship to the I was genuinely shocked that they do
Speaker 1: know each other, but one is extremely disinterested in the
Speaker 1: other person, and they appear on screen together for maybe
Speaker 1: four minutes maximum, like their stories barely intersect, and it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be like, wow, romance. People have tattoos of
Speaker 1: that on their human bodies. They have tattoos with that,
Speaker 1: and like dad didn't did they not know? Maybe they
Speaker 1: have just been to a hot tipic allside, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is well is it also worth noting that because
Speaker 1: we talk about this all the time when men present
Speaker 1: stalker ish behavior in movies, and how troubling that is.
Speaker 1: Like she follows him, he's like he's singing, he's on
Speaker 1: that like spirally mountain thing. And then and it's basically
Speaker 1: an image from Mowanna. They stole from Mohana, is what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, a movie that came about twenty five years later.
Speaker 1: So he's singing a song about how he's like I
Speaker 1: wish there was a different thing for me. It's it's
Speaker 1: the first song about I wish I was Santa every
Speaker 1: song as I wish I was hand and then she
Speaker 1: she's just like lurking in the background, like follows him.
Speaker 1: And then yeah, it's not okay. Stalking no matter what
Speaker 1: gender is not okay. You heard it here first on
Speaker 1: the Bechtel cast. It's really sad if you heard it
Speaker 1: here first. By the way, like logistically, don't follow a
Speaker 1: vaal cell around, like yeah, not until he's the greatest
Speaker 1: guitar player in chicolso then bang his lines he would happen.
Speaker 1: Does anyone have anything else to say about the movie?
Speaker 1: I hate it? That's it. Shall we do some some
Speaker 1: questions from the comments from the audience, Sure, if anyone's
Speaker 1: got them. Does anyone have anything they want to say
Speaker 1: or a question? Come on, talk into the microphone. What's
Speaker 1: your name? Rachel Hi? I was wondering if you guys
Speaker 1: picked up on like problematic racial things with Oggie Boogie
Speaker 1: and if you wanted to speak to that. So Oggie
Speaker 1: Boogie is I think the one character who is voiced
Speaker 1: by a person of color. Oh right, okay, here, I've
Speaker 1: got I am dB up right here, let me invest
Speaker 1: I so Ogie Boogie is voiced by Ken Page. And
Speaker 1: then oh, Undersea Gal ever heard of her, is voiced
Speaker 1: by a woman of color named Carmen Twilie. She also
Speaker 1: voices a character called Man under the Stairs at the
Speaker 1: very beginning of the film. Yes, I am the Oh no,
Speaker 1: that was the bed. I was under the bed, not
Speaker 1: the stairs. I don't know who the Man under the
Speaker 1: stairs is. But um, so yeah, this is a mostly
Speaker 1: white cast. We are not surprised considering it's a Tim
Speaker 1: Burton joint. Although is it a Tim Burton movie? He
Speaker 1: didn't direct it. He Everyone's like it's Tim Burton's Nightmare
Speaker 1: before Christmas. I'm comfortable blaming it on him. Okay, he
Speaker 1: has like a store I think a story by credit
Speaker 1: and he produced it, produced it. So yeah, So he
Speaker 1: is one of the few characters voiced by a person
Speaker 1: of color. And he's also one of I would argue
Speaker 1: two villains in the movie, the other one being the
Speaker 1: mad scientist Dr Finkelstein, who is he co did as Jewish?
Speaker 1: And it's also that problematic, I mean hookie boogie like
Speaker 1: based strictly on the way he is presented, seems like
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be from New Orleans or there's like
Speaker 1: the aesthetic surrounding his lair and he always has a
Speaker 1: pair of dice like there's it's very like stereotypical New
Speaker 1: Orleans like voodoo. Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I I
Speaker 1: it's weird because it's like, it's not like you can't
Speaker 1: have a villain who's a person of color, but if
Speaker 1: that's the only person in the movie, then it's bad.
Speaker 1: Don't have your only character who's voiced by a person
Speaker 1: of color be the one like the villain of the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's racis in a Timberton movie or like, probably everyone's
Speaker 1: going to be white and if someone is not white,
Speaker 1: it's probably for a racist reason. Right, wasn't the was
Speaker 1: the Peculiar Children whatever? That one was called Mrs Peagan's
Speaker 1: House of Children who Are Peculiar, that's the name of it. Right,
Speaker 1: it wasn't Sam Jackson the only person of color in
Speaker 1: that movie, and he was also the villain? Am I
Speaker 1: right about that? Does anyone know? I'm getting some Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: that's enough for us. So yeah, Tim Burton has a
Speaker 1: as a bad track record when it comes to race
Speaker 1: and like We'll tell you too, which is also crazy.
Speaker 1: He's been outspoken about it. Yeah, go listen to our
Speaker 1: Edward scissor Hands episode for more details. Yeah, are there
Speaker 1: any other questions, comments, thoughts? Yeah? Coming up? Is this
Speaker 1: movie just MoMA mea but clamation because it's a lot
Speaker 1: of expositional songs with not a lot in between, a
Speaker 1: lot of skinny white people that boreb be kind of
Speaker 1: Is it not just Mamma Mia? Yes? I agree that
Speaker 1: Mama Mia is boring and bad. I just watched it
Speaker 1: for the first time too, because my boyfriend's sister wanted
Speaker 1: me to, and I'm just like, I got half an
Speaker 1: hour into it, I'm just like, yeah, so this is
Speaker 1: a series of songs? What is happening? This is Mamma
Speaker 1: Mia is a terrific film that everyone should see, where
Speaker 1: Pierce Brows is giving it a hundred and twenty percent,
Speaker 1: There's there's no reason to dislike Mamma Mia. I didn't
Speaker 1: dislike it. I just didn't like it. Did you see
Speaker 1: all of pierce prosident songs that's as finn Ify and
Speaker 1: like talk about pitchy like he's but he like you
Speaker 1: can tell, you're like who this matters to him? And
Speaker 1: he just a spectacular failure. It was gorgeous. No, but
Speaker 1: I think you're right though it's boring and lots of
Speaker 1: expository singing and not much story that the same thing
Speaker 1: I actually have not, but I do enjoy Abba songs.
Speaker 1: So yet all you have to do to watch Mamma
Speaker 1: Mia is listen to Abba on Spotify or if you're
Speaker 1: like me, wait, did anyone here know about the band
Speaker 1: The A Teens before they knew about Aba? Yes? Okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, there's this awesome band called The A Teens.
Speaker 1: They only sing hits. It's like, why is every eighteen
Speaker 1: song the best song ever? It's because they only sing Yeah,
Speaker 1: there were Swedish teenagers getting away with murder, but there's
Speaker 1: any any other thoughts, comments, concerns, complaints, Oh we've got
Speaker 1: someone yeah, uh, just the To me, it was like
Speaker 1: the ultimate male fantasy playing out where literally they do
Speaker 1: nothing and the whole town loves them, women follow them
Speaker 1: for kind of no reason, and then like they get
Speaker 1: moody and stay inside, and the whole town like comes
Speaker 1: to a screeching halt, like whoa, he's being IMO today,
Speaker 1: Let's figure this out, guys. Yeah, that's so true. True.
Speaker 1: It kind of reminded me of a Bye Bye Birdie
Speaker 1: like Conrad Bertie where like everybody's like fawning over him
Speaker 1: and like falling over themselves, like definitely getting them our boy.
Speaker 1: He said. There there are a few different times where
Speaker 1: in the beginning whenever he just like wanders into the
Speaker 1: woods and like is in Christmas Town, Like the town
Speaker 1: is like we haven't seen Jack raised the alarm. He's like,
Speaker 1: they're so concert he's been gone. Maybe he just like
Speaker 1: stayed over to friend's house. They're like, he hasn't been
Speaker 1: home all night? Me did spend it the night in
Speaker 1: Christmas twn? Yeah, Also, like time works differently in Christmastown
Speaker 1: where your town looks malnourished, Maybe work on that first,
Speaker 1: like beating the people actually lived there. The imagine if
Speaker 1: there were a mayor was like one emotionally unstable citizen
Speaker 1: was gone for the night, and they're like the city
Speaker 1: shut down. I do like his line where he's like
Speaker 1: I can't make decisions. I'm a politician, and you're like scathing.
Speaker 1: All right, we were all afraid to say it, but
Speaker 1: Mr Tim told us and god so a politician too faced?
Speaker 1: WHOA was that a metaphor? You think? Oh god, he
Speaker 1: I love when male auteurs are like get like you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: we know. Yeah, we had one more question. Yeah, come
Speaker 1: on down, come on up. Do we think that Jack
Speaker 1: has or is supposed to have a penis? Yeah? I'd
Speaker 1: like to personally thank you for that question. I was
Speaker 1: waiting for a follow up question like if so, what
Speaker 1: does he come? Oh right, okay, which reminds me, okay,
Speaker 1: give it up. If you're familiar with the wet scap
Speaker 1: dry scap debate, first of all, horrify. That's okay. For
Speaker 1: those of you who are not familiar, I'm so sorry
Speaker 1: for what's about to happen. Let's go, I just got
Speaker 1: debate is an on It's Bechtel cast Cannon than Kalen hits,
Speaker 1: so it's kenned. I like it. Okay, it's just a
Speaker 1: single question on the ballot. If the character Beetle Juice comes,
Speaker 1: we assume he does. If he comes, scabs, are they
Speaker 1: dry or are they wet? Right, We're it's just horrible.
Speaker 1: Not to be clear, we've made the mistake previously of
Speaker 1: offering no scous as an option, but that is sort
Speaker 1: of all over again when we're splitting the vote. So
Speaker 1: it's so your options are wet scows, dry scows. What
Speaker 1: is beld Juice come and just um, I'll close my
Speaker 1: eyes so I don't hold it against anyone in case
Speaker 1: we talked to you after the show. But you clap
Speaker 1: clap if you feel like perhaps bel Juice wouldcome wet scaps. Interesting, uh,
Speaker 1: And if he comes dry scaps, that's pretty even. It's so,
Speaker 1: it's such a polarizing it such a it's the issue
Speaker 1: of our times. The answer for progressive blue wave speaking,
Speaker 1: it's dry scaps. But you know, but speaking to your question,
Speaker 1: does Jack Skellington have a penis? He certally carries himself
Speaker 1: as if he does. Yes, And then follow up question,
Speaker 1: what does he come? Small bones? Can't we all agree
Speaker 1: that's cannon? All right? Well, shall we determine whether or
Speaker 1: not the movie passes the Bechdel test? Well, it sure doesn't.
Speaker 1: Not even club, there are no women who interact. There
Speaker 1: are a few witches and hags next to each other
Speaker 1: who praise Jack Skellingtons, who are fan growing out at
Speaker 1: Jack Skellington, but they're not talking to each other. Also
Speaker 1: there okay, we didn't talk about this, but there's one
Speaker 1: last thing. Okay, there are vampires. We've got ghouls, We've
Speaker 1: got a guy with an axe in his head, We've
Speaker 1: got the hot we've got all manner of creatures, but
Speaker 1: the only creatures who appear to be female identifying are
Speaker 1: either witches, hags, or that shape of water lady, Like,
Speaker 1: why can't there be a lady vampire? Why can't there
Speaker 1: be a lady gool? Like? How come we're pigeonholed into
Speaker 1: these rolls of witches and hags? But I will say
Speaker 1: that the shape of water Lady was very progressive, yes,
Speaker 1: because usually it's the fish man that you raw dog,
Speaker 1: but out it's like Mr Tim makes a good point
Speaker 1: of what if it was a fishwoman that you rack?
Speaker 1: You're right, very progressive, brought brought visibility that we needed
Speaker 1: to the person in that character. I feel like that also,
Speaker 1: like your your line, it feels like you're also asking, like,
Speaker 1: why aren't there more lady serial killers? It was kind
Speaker 1: of looked like it was falling into that scene. Why
Speaker 1: aren't there though, let's start a revolution tonight? No, no,
Speaker 1: I I totally agree, though it is like it's the
Speaker 1: most stereotypical. What are women referred to as? Not? On Halloween?
Speaker 1: It's very rare to see a man referred to as
Speaker 1: a ghoul or a person with an axe in their head.
Speaker 1: But you know, women are called, which is at very least,
Speaker 1: if not a series of far worse where it's on
Speaker 1: on the daily. Yeah. Oops, So anyway, a movie does
Speaker 1: not pass the Bechtel tests. There are no women interacting
Speaker 1: at all. But if they did, I would guess that
Speaker 1: they would be talking about Jack Skellington because they all
Speaker 1: freak and love him. But yeah, hard, no on that one.
Speaker 1: Jack skelling is not even hot. Yeah, Like, he's always
Speaker 1: wearing a suit and he's like, he's like a stand
Speaker 1: up comedian who only wears suits, and you're just like,
Speaker 1: this guy, what's wrong with him? John mulaney fans and well,
Speaker 1: shall we rate the movie on our nipple scale? So
Speaker 1: this is a scale of zero to five nipples, where
Speaker 1: we rate it based on its portrayal and representation of
Speaker 1: women in the movie. I'm going to give this half
Speaker 1: nipple because, um, while we do see Sally make a
Speaker 1: few active choices in the movie, which some of which
Speaker 1: do kind of influence the story, but mostly not really,
Speaker 1: and she does have a few skills, but again, most
Speaker 1: of them are very stereotypically like feminine, domestic skills and
Speaker 1: she has to be saved at the end, she's all
Speaker 1: damseled and she stocks the hero. But then they kiss,
Speaker 1: which is usually how those narratives go. So it's just
Speaker 1: you know, par for the course. But um, yeah, she
Speaker 1: she's the only woman in the town except for a
Speaker 1: few witches, and it's yeah, not not great. So one
Speaker 1: half nipple and it's going to Sally and she can
Speaker 1: probably detach it from herself. Natalie, what say, Um, is
Speaker 1: it possible to give it negative to Yes? Can I go?
Speaker 1: But like, can I invert my we do it. It's
Speaker 1: part of the deal. No, I'm similar to what you
Speaker 1: were saying at the end, Like the fact that they
Speaker 1: had to like try to like shoehorn like a romance
Speaker 1: or any type of thing like that into this movie
Speaker 1: like just shows like what the creators of the movie
Speaker 1: thought of her the entire time. It's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can give her some of these skills or some
Speaker 1: of these things are really cool. She's like really good
Speaker 1: with potions, but in the end, it was like somebody
Speaker 1: that was subservient to a dude, and you can roll
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, negative nipples scary. I'll go over the
Speaker 1: half as well. The Sally character, and like all characters
Speaker 1: of like the tokenizing the female character in a movie,
Speaker 1: especially in like nineties movies, like I feel certain that
Speaker 1: Tim Burton Slash everyone involved in the writing of this
Speaker 1: movie thought they were doing a very cool, progressive, empty
Speaker 1: girl power gesture by even including Sally and the story
Speaker 1: and giving her a skill that wasn't like just being
Speaker 1: able to be fucked the end, because that is I mean,
Speaker 1: that's like a lot of like eighties and nineties movies.
Speaker 1: There's they're like, no, it is cool, and like female
Speaker 1: characters are, she can do something. The end game for
Speaker 1: her is exactly the same, and she has no options
Speaker 1: except the end game that has been subscribed since the
Speaker 1: beginning of time. But like, look a potion and you're
Speaker 1: just like it's it's I don't know, it's even more
Speaker 1: sinister to me because it's being sold to you is
Speaker 1: like this is progress, and you're like, this is just
Speaker 1: a more accurate representation of someone who might exist with
Speaker 1: also no options. Worth noting, though the screenplay is by
Speaker 1: a woman, Caroline Thompson, she should be in jail her
Speaker 1: last redeeming, like if she wanted to create a bunch
Speaker 1: of stembooks like for chemistry, Sally, that could be her.
Speaker 1: Do you make fog juice? We all want to know,
Speaker 1: But well, the story was by Tim Burton, so he
Speaker 1: was probably just like He's like, I have to French
Speaker 1: kiss Johnny Depp for five hours a day or I'll die.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have to outsource this one. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: half Nevel given it to the fish Lady. Great well, Natalie,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Where can people
Speaker 1: follow you online? And what would you like to plug? Yeah? So, um,
Speaker 1: I have a website Natalie McGill dot com where upcoming shows.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Natalie s McGill and on Instagram,
Speaker 1: I'm at hoot Holler's Snap. Thank you to Pete and
Speaker 1: everyone here the Drafthouse Comedy Theater. Um listeners at home,
Speaker 1: check this place out if you're ever in town. Wonderful
Speaker 1: and give it up for yourselves. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming out. Um. So that was our episode. I
Speaker 1: hope you liked it. You were feeling the energy in
Speaker 1: the room, um, and which just all my cousin. I
Speaker 1: felt her the cousin is present. So we just wanted
Speaker 1: to say thank you again to our guest. The wonderful,
Speaker 1: Natalie Miguel, Thanks again to everyone who came out to
Speaker 1: that live show and anyone who has ever come out
Speaker 1: to any of our live shows. Always the best, always
Speaker 1: the best time. And also one more thanks to Pete
Speaker 1: and everyone at the Drafthouse Comedy Theater. So much fun.
Speaker 1: They were so kind, Yes, so wonderful. And hey, you
Speaker 1: can follow us if you don't already on social media
Speaker 1: heard of like Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook, although I am
Speaker 1: on Facebook so little these days that well, Martain Serbert
Speaker 1: is a cyber criminal. Hell been unders during the world.
Speaker 1: If you haven't heard already, Cheryl Sandberg is canceled. Lean
Speaker 1: out anyway, anyway, follow us, follow us on Facebook platforms, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you so much. Silicon Valley is actually good the show
Speaker 1: on HBO. Yes, but not what I was saying, but yes, anyway,
Speaker 1: so yeah, follow us there at Bechtel Cast. You can
Speaker 1: go to our website Bechtel cast dot com. There you
Speaker 1: can find our merch on t public. Yes, just in
Speaker 1: time for the holiday, it's you have a bunch of
Speaker 1: new designs. We've got queer icon, baby grant, We've got
Speaker 1: a new non binary icon. We've got new designs for
Speaker 1: strong female protagonists. We've got it all, so check it out,
Speaker 1: knock some items off your list for your friends, and
Speaker 1: everything is on sale right now at least if you're
Speaker 1: If you're hearing this on the day this episode drops, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, thanks for like being up to date.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to drop with our content. Seems like
Speaker 1: the website of the kind of website where everything is
Speaker 1: kind of always on sale, so like, get it. It's
Speaker 1: set them. Also get our Matren. Yes, five dollars a
Speaker 1: month for two extra episodes in December is the time
Speaker 1: to join because we are doing shitty Hallmark slash Netflix
Speaker 1: Christmas movies. What a time to be alive. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: So everyone thinks again for listening, and you know, have
Speaker 1: a great freaking week. We cherish you have a great week,
Speaker 1: all right, Bye bye,