1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and. 3 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with E 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 2: Lisa Peace with us as we talk about the assassination 5 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: of Robert F. Kennedy. Lisa, you were talking about the 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 2: situation and the Ambassador Hotel where Rayfer Johnson, the Olympic star, 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: was tackling Sirhan Sirhan while an announcer was out there saying, 8 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: get the gun, Rafer, get the gun, Rafer, and Rosie 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: Greer was there saying that to the football player. Rosie 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 2: still alive. Rayfer died about five years ago. 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw on the fiftieth annivers sixty fiftieth anniversary. Yeah, 12 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 3: there was a little ceremony and I saw him briefly. 13 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 3: But yeah, we've lost Rafer. I don't know if Rosie's 14 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 3: still around. 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: So do you think it's possible that those responsible for 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: the assassination found several people who were shooters there and 17 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: set them up and put them in there, but also 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: found the young Palestinian by the name of Hands. Sure Hand. 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 2: They figured he'd be disgruntled and it would be a 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 2: perfect alibi, and they got the guy hypnotized him, put 21 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: a gun in his hand and sent him in there. 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 3: I think that's exactly what happened. And note the date. 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 3: It was June fifth, you know, and June fifth, one 24 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 3: year earlier was the Sixth Day War, right, they were 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: in the middle of the Sixth Day War between Arab 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 3: and the Arabs and the Israelis. And so it kind 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 3: of if you're the CIA. And it's funny because I 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 3: Howard Hudd said this in one of his interviews. He's like, 29 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 3: the CI looks at the dates of events and he's like, 30 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 3: he picked They picked them for maximum psychological value. And 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: so if you're trying to shore up your Israeli friends overseas, 32 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: you know, after they sunk one of our ships in 33 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, the USS Liberty, which kind of strained relations, 34 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: you know, then maybe you have a Palestinian, you know, 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 3: appear to shoot Robert Kennedy and that helps, you know, 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 3: strengthen the sympathy towards the Israeli cause. So, you know, 37 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: it's when the CI does operations, they look for the 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: twufer like with Oswald and JFK. They were also seeking 39 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 3: to take down the Fairplay for Cuba Committee and so 40 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 3: you know, to have a member of the Fair Play 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 3: for Cuba Committee or even one of its officers, because 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 3: he pretended he ran the New Orleans office even though 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 3: he didn't. There was no such thing. But that was 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 3: a way to discredit the FPCC as well as kill 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 3: jfk You know, why get just one thing done if 46 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 3: you can get two or three things done at the 47 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 3: same time. And I laughed, but none of this is funny. 48 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 3: Of course I'm partly coughing laughing, So apologies there. 49 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: Now, Robert F. Kennedy Junior believes that Sir Hans Sir 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: Hens should be what do you think of that? 51 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: Yes, well, actually I was the one who got him 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: to meet Sir hand because I was helping Robert Ketty 53 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: with his earlier book, American Values. I was literally sitting 54 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 3: beside him at his kitchen tables. We're going through some drafts, 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 3: and I said, by the way, have you ever talked 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 3: to Sir Hann. He's like no, And I said would 57 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 3: you like to? He's like yes, and I'm like, well, 58 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: I'll get you in touch with his lawyer, who was 59 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 3: then a different lawyer than the one he has now. 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: And that lawyer like couldn't believe it. She's like, oh 61 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 3: my god, Lisa, how did you do that? Because they've 62 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 3: been trying to, you know, bring him into the case 63 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: for years and it just, you know, it's one of 64 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: those timing, serendipity things. And so he called me from 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 3: the car on the way back and I'm like, what 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 3: did you think? And he goes, he's a sweet guy. 67 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: There's no way he did this. And you know that 68 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 3: by itself obviously is a subjective judgment. But he matches 69 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 3: all the other evidence. 70 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: And Governor knew show him back into thou twenty two, 71 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: I believe blocked any parole release on Sir Han. 72 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: Did he not? 73 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 3: Yes, he did. And worse, he claimed he went to 74 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: the archives and looked through all the evidence himself, which 75 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: I know for a fact if he went to the archives, 76 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 3: he definitely didn't look at all the evidence, because there's 77 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: no way he could have concluded Sir hand was guilty. 78 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: It's Newsom's been posturing to run for president for a 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: very long time. Those of us in California have seen 80 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 3: this coming ten miles away. So I'm sure that that 81 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 3: was one of the you know, the hurdles, like is 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: he going to free Sir Han or is he going 83 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 3: to want to be a conventional CI defender candidate, And 84 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 3: of course he would choose to be the conventional candidate. 85 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: So, Liza, do you believe that the people responsible for 86 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: the assassination in nineteen sixty three of John F. Kennedy 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: might be the same people responsible for the assassination of 88 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy five years later. 89 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: Well, you know, he just got a big clue in 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 3: that regard because a CBS reporter called me and alerted 91 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 3: me to a document I hadn't seen because it came 92 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 3: out after my book was published. It's not in this release, 93 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: but if you google Sir hann and CIA, you will 94 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 3: find this document. And it turns out that, supposedly after 95 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: the assassination and possibly before, guess who gets to hold 96 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 3: the Sir hand file and control all the information going 97 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: between CI and LAPD The same guy, James Angleton, who 98 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 3: had been controlling the Oswold file at CIA since nineteen 99 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 3: fifty nine, four years before Kennedy was shot, and he 100 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 3: was still controlling it right up to the last minute, 101 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: when you know, when the assassination went down. So it's 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 3: very interesting, odd, disturbing that Angleton is also now kind 103 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 3: of sticking his nose into the RFK case, or like 104 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: I said, maybe Sir hamm was one of his assets. 105 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 3: Because people don't understand how the CI works. There's the 106 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 3: think of a brain with two halves. One half is 107 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 3: devoted to like research and analysis. That's the overt intelligence side, 108 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 3: the intelligence gathering side. But then the other half is 109 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: the covert action side, the operation side. And so you 110 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 3: would expect if the CIA had nothing to do with 111 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 3: this and they just wanted to research their hands background 112 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: as a Palestinian coming from another country. You know, in 113 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: the context of the assassination, the right place for that 114 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 3: would have been the analysis side, But instead the operation 115 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 3: side takes hold of it. So that to me strongly 116 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: implies the operation side maybe had something to cover up. 117 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: And I just want to I want to read you 118 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: just a tiny bit of this document. I'm going to 119 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: read you the opening. It says Sir hansir Hann's security 120 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 3: file reflects that he had never been of interest to 121 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 3: the agency prior to the assassination of Robert Kennedy. That's 122 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 3: very interesting wordy because it doesn't say Sir hanser Han 123 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: was never of interest to the agency. It says his 124 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 3: security file reflects he had never been of interest and 125 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: it's easy to dum me up a file to make 126 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 3: it look like you only just learned of him on 127 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: June fifth, right, But then they say on June fifth, 128 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 3: when Sir Ann was identified, the Director of Central Intelligence, 129 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 3: that would be Richard Helms, who we believe was probably 130 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 3: part of the JFK assassination, met with the Deputy Chief 131 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 3: of the CI staff. The CI staff is run by 132 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: James Angleton and the assistant Deputy Director for plans, who 133 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: was Cord Meyer, who was married to Mary Meyer and 134 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 3: a good friend of Angleton's, and the director of Security 135 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: and directed that the CI staff would be the focal 136 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: point for action in a CIRT hand case. So to me, 137 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: this is a stunning admission that the operational side of 138 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: CIA is taking control of this. It also says that 139 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: they reached out to the LAPD and said we're prepared 140 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: to cooperate with you. 141 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: Now. 142 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: There may be other documents I haven't seen yet where 143 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 3: maybe the LAPD reached out first. But if the CI 144 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: reached out to the LAPD first and not the other 145 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 3: way around, again, that's really interesting. So there will be 146 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 3: more files to come. This first drop of the RFK 147 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 3: files was only like existing FBI files that were already 148 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 3: set aside, readily identifiable, easy to scan. But they're now 149 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: trying to scan in some CIA files that we know 150 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: they have on the Robert Kennedy assassination, because, as I 151 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 3: talked about in my book, the CIA was helping the LAPD. 152 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,679 Speaker 3: It was mentioned in the very first broadcast press conference 153 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: that Chief Thomas Rehtten gave. In fact, he literally choked. 154 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 3: He said he was getting help from the CIA and 155 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 3: State Department. And one of the reporters said, what do 156 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: you mean the CIA? What did they help with? And 157 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 3: he started like choking. He couldn't sub form the words. 158 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 3: He's like, the the CIA. You know. He finally got 159 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 3: it out, and other than that, he'd been calm, smooth 160 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 3: as silk, but that question really upset him, which also 161 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 3: makes you wonder was that a sensitive spot because maybe 162 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: they knew the CIA had been involved in that hit 163 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: and we were talking about Sir Ann's position being in 164 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: front of him. And I just want to note that 165 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 3: the LAPD knew on day one that that was a problem, 166 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 3: and it's right there in some of the early witness interviews. 167 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: In fact, I think it was Rafer Johnson who was 168 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 3: the first to note that Syrinne was facing him, and 169 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: the policeman who's interviewing him, he's like, wait, wait a minute, 170 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: go back. He said he was in front of him 171 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 3: because he knew the wounds were from behind. So there's something. 172 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: And the other thing is there are now photos, clear 173 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 3: photos released in this release that show the extra bullet 174 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 3: holes in the pantry, because not only were five other 175 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: people shot, but there were at least four holes in 176 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 3: the doorframes that Kennedy had walked through, two in the 177 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 3: center divider and two in the southernmost edge of the 178 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: double door divider. And in the past the photos have 179 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: been really sketchy, hard to share, but they're pretty clear 180 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 3: copies online now, so if people you want to poke through, 181 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: they can find that now. I also want to give 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: people a warning if they start poking through the RFK files. 183 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 3: The autopsy photos have now been released and they are 184 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: very disturbing, to say the least. I was so shocked. 185 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 3: Especially the first photo to me, was completely unnecessary because 186 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 3: it didn't tell me anything about the wounds. It was 187 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 3: just kind of exploitive, and that I was a little 188 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: sad to see, but there were shots that show clearly 189 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: exactly where the shots entered under the arm, because Kennedy 190 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 3: wasn't only shot behind the right ear. He was also 191 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 3: shot literally if you put two fingers under your armpit 192 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 3: as I'm doing now that no one can see. 193 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: Crazy. How many times was he shot? A couple times? 194 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: He was shot four times. One shot only went through clothing, 195 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 3: so that didn't enter his body. But these other two shots. 196 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 3: One lodged at the base of his neck, and that's 197 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: the bullet they pulled out for comparison purposes. They didn't 198 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 3: retrieve that until he was dead because that bullet was 199 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 3: not life threatening. The one that killed him was the 200 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: one behind the ear. But there was also one more 201 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 3: shot that entered under his arm and then exited the 202 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 3: front of his chest, you know, puncturing his lungs on 203 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 3: the way out. Those shots also were shot at not 204 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 3: more than three inches away, So all of those shots, 205 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: and again, Sir Hann was captured after the second shot. 206 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 3: As soon as you know, the major d was like 207 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: right next to him, and when Sir Hann started firing, 208 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: he immediately grabbed him and moved the gun away. From 209 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 3: Kennedy and away from the crowd, and you know other 210 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 3: people were grabbing him too. Yet Kennedy was shot four 211 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 3: times in five other people were shot. It doesn't make 212 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 3: any sense if we try and stick to the official story. 213 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 2: What do you think of the possibility, Lisa, that the 214 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 2: shooter put the gun in Sir Han's hand before he 215 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: fled off. 216 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 3: It's entirely possible because as we were talking before one 217 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 3: of these breaks, there was a moment where they got 218 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 3: a gun out of Sir Han's hand, and then a 219 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 3: gun is on the table and Sir Ham picks up 220 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 3: this other well and again it could be the same 221 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: gun or another gun. We really don't know. Somebody could 222 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: literally have switched the guns, so we don't know what 223 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: he brought. And I wouldn't make a big deal about that. 224 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 3: I would say it was the same gun, except that 225 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 3: Lynn Mangan who was a neighbor of Sarans and did 226 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 3: a lot of research on the ballistics and talked to 227 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 3: Bill Harper, who was the neighboring city's criminalist. Doin Wolfer 228 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 3: was LAPD, but in Pasadena, Bill Harper, who had been 229 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 3: former OSS, he got very interested in this because he 230 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 3: didn't trust Wolfer at all because he knew his work 231 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 3: as a professional colleague was terrible. And he told Lynn, 232 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: he's like they switched the gun. They switched the bullets. 233 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 3: And there's definite proof that they switched the bullets because 234 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 3: when a bullet is taken into evidence, the markings on 235 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 3: the bullet are also logged. So when that Kennedy neck 236 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: bullet was pulled out after the autopsy and turned over 237 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: the corner, and he even confirmed this at the grand 238 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 3: jury hearing, he said, yes, I see my markings on it. 239 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 3: I put tea in for myals and thirty one because 240 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 3: I always use the last two digits of the autopsy 241 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 3: case number. So he knew exactly what he had put 242 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 3: on the bullet, and it was still there at the 243 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 3: grand jury. But in nineteen seventy five, after the film 244 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 3: the second gun had come out and there was talked 245 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 3: of conspiracy in the case, a very limited hearing was 246 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 3: held just to look at the bullets and the gun 247 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: and nothing else, no other evidence of conspiracy, just to 248 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: see could these bullets have come from Sir Han's gun 249 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 3: or multiple guns, because Harper had looked at the bullets 250 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 3: and said these bullets are clearly coming from two different guns. 251 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 3: They're not the same types of bullets, and they're clearly 252 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 3: at least two different firing positions. So, but the bullet 253 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: that should have said TM thirty one in nineteen seventy 254 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: five magically now says DWTN on the base. Now, the 255 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 3: base of a bullet is like the size of a 256 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 3: pencil eraser. It's not like you would have room for 257 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 3: DW one, or that Thomas Degucci would have somehow left 258 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 3: room for DW to creep in there. You know, it's 259 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 3: it was a different bullet. And the reason to switch 260 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: them would be, again, if none of them matched Sir 261 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 3: Han's gun, that would be a problem. And so and 262 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: that's kind of what the panel found. They said, we 263 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: couldn't match any of the bullets to Sir Hans gun, 264 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: but we could at least match the bullets to each other, 265 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: and therefore we say only one gun was used. And 266 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, only one gun was used because Wolfer 267 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 3: used it after the assassination to dummy up the bullets 268 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 3: through investigating. It's just crazy, you know, how could you 269 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: just wave that away like it's a small thing. And 270 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 3: they said, well, Sir Hans's gun barrel was let it 271 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: and they tried to say, oh, police got access to 272 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 3: the gun and they fired souvenir bullets from it. That's 273 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 3: not true. Believe me, if Wolfer could have gotten access 274 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 3: to Sir Han's gun, he would have dummied it up. 275 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 3: With Sir Han's gun. He would have just fired more bullets. 276 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: Claim those were the victim bullets. 277 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: Right. 278 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: Listen to More Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at 279 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam 280 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: dot com for more