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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship

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Speaker 1: with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining me for session to seventy nine of

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Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into

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Speaker 1: our conversation after a word from our sponsors. It's officially

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Speaker 1: spooky season, y'all. For many of us, the idea of

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Speaker 1: gazing into the darkest parts of ourselves is more terrifying

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Speaker 1: than any Halloween thriller or monster movie we could ever watch,

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Speaker 1: which is understandable. It can be difficult emotional work to

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Speaker 1: dig up the parts of ourselves that we'd rather bury

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Speaker 1: six ft under. The repressed parts of ourselves often challenge

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Speaker 1: who we think we are and bring up feelings we'd

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Speaker 1: rather forget. But what if we learn to integrate and

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Speaker 1: accept the parts of ourselves we hide in the dark.

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Speaker 1: What if uncovering the parts of ourselves were hiding in

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Speaker 1: the shadows will illuminate who we really want to be.

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Speaker 1: In this week's session, I'm joined by licensed therapists and

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Speaker 1: author of the shadow Work work book Self Care Exercises

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Speaker 1: for Healing your Trauma and Exploring your Hidden self, Darrell Caribio.

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Speaker 1: Our conversation explores how shadow work allows for more self

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Speaker 1: acceptance and living a more aligned life, and the hidden

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Speaker 1: gifts and talents that may be locked away in our

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Speaker 1: shadow selves. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation,

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Speaker 1: please share with us on social media using the hashtag

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Speaker 1: tv G in session or join us over in the

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Speaker 1: Sister Circle To talk more in depth about the episode.

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Speaker 1: You can join us at community that Therapy for Black

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Speaker 1: Girls dot com. Here's our conversation, So, Darrell, can you

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Speaker 1: get started by telling us what your shadow work? Sure? So,

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Speaker 1: shadow work to me is the process of bringing the

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Speaker 1: unconscious conscious. So it's about connecting with the hidden parts

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Speaker 1: of ourselves that we probably don't acknowledge. In our day

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Speaker 1: to day interactions. I kind of think about it into

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Speaker 1: terms of like the Wizard of Oz moment where they

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Speaker 1: finally discover who the wizard is, right, and it's like

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Speaker 1: peeling back that curtain to saying like, what is the

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Speaker 1: reality of the things that have been the driving forces

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Speaker 1: in my world in my space that maybe I haven't acknowledged?

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Speaker 1: And so shadow work, to me is the process of

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Speaker 1: getting connected to those things and figuring out what you

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Speaker 1: want to do with him and how you want to

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Speaker 1: exist alongside them. Can you say some about the history

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Speaker 1: of this term, like where does this term come from?

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Speaker 1: Our shadow work, our shadow self? Yeah, so the term

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Speaker 1: shadow was popularized by analysts, psychoanalysts, whatever terms people use

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Speaker 1: in those days. Carl Young, who was a competitor Freud.

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Speaker 1: So he's, you know, another old white dude back in

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Speaker 1: the day who was trying to figure out why people

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Speaker 1: do the things they do and how to treat people

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Speaker 1: and and take care of people. And he came up

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Speaker 1: with this idea that sort of mirrors Freud's idea of

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Speaker 1: the unconscious, but it kind of expanded upon it to

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Speaker 1: give this language that was a little bit more psycho spiritual,

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Speaker 1: which is a lot of what Young was about. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was someone who was a traditional analyst, but he

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Speaker 1: was also this this person and scholar who's interested in

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Speaker 1: astrology and the connection between psychology and astrology and spirituality.

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Speaker 1: So he was a little different than Freud and sort

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Speaker 1: of how he conceptualized and how he thought about understanding

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Speaker 1: all the parts of ourselves. And so if Freud had

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Speaker 1: the unconscious, Young had the shadow, which is sort of

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Speaker 1: like this hidden kind of part of yourself. Since then,

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Speaker 1: that's been the strict unions will refer to the shadow,

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Speaker 1: but it's not one of those really popular terms that

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Speaker 1: comes up a lot in mainstream psychology. So how do

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Speaker 1: we get started with doing shadow work? Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: say somebody, here's our conversation and they're like, okay, are

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Speaker 1: ready to do some of this shadow work? What does

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Speaker 1: that even look like? To get started? First? I want

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Speaker 1: people to recognize that it can be very difficult, right

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Speaker 1: looking at yourself, deeply looking at parts of yourself that

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Speaker 1: maybe aren't as good or wonderful or wholesome. Caring is

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Speaker 1: hard work psychologically, and so the way I talk about

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Speaker 1: it in the book is sort of this kind of

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Speaker 1: like three step process and it's really you know, from

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Speaker 1: our sort of like mental health training, it's I take

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Speaker 1: a trauma informed approach to it. So one, it's important

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Speaker 1: to really pace yourself because this is difficult emotional work.

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Speaker 1: It is probably gonna bring up some not so great

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Speaker 1: things for you. But then two, it's like you want

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Speaker 1: to have these this process of setting yourself up for

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Speaker 1: success with grounding or some sort of yes, centering experience,

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Speaker 1: so you can really one get past your normal sort

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Speaker 1: of day to day defensive is and feel secure in

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Speaker 1: the work that you're about to do. Then you can

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Speaker 1: really get into sort of these journal exercises that are

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Speaker 1: in the book, these sort of reflections on these deeper

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Speaker 1: parts of yourself. And then, and this is the part

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Speaker 1: that's not often talked about is and what I'm really

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Speaker 1: glad about that happens in the book is that every

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Speaker 1: topic also comes with a set of affirmations because ultimately,

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Speaker 1: shadow work is about accepting and integrating. It's not this

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Speaker 1: idea that you have these bad parts and they only

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Speaker 1: exist to be bad and you are bad. No, it's

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Speaker 1: the opposite. It is shadow means we all have the

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Speaker 1: capacity for whatever impulses, darker impulses if you want to

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Speaker 1: put it that way. So if we can accept those

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Speaker 1: it's just a fact of being human, then we can

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Speaker 1: integrate them and we can find ways to engage with

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Speaker 1: them that are less harmful to ourselves and to others.

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Speaker 1: Of that three part process, I say, grounding or centering,

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Speaker 1: like than doing the work of journaling, reflecting, and then

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Speaker 1: affirming yourself and working on self compassion is the way

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Speaker 1: to go. So can you say more about like why

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Speaker 1: this work can be really difficult for people, Like what

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Speaker 1: kinds of things typically come up and make this process

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Speaker 1: a little more dauncing. Yeah, I think there's so much.

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Speaker 1: And I also have to say this, I think in

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Speaker 1: some ways most mental health professionals are shadow workers, whether

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Speaker 1: they take on that moniker or not, right, because it's

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Speaker 1: about a lot of times we're trying to help people,

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Speaker 1: not always, but a lot of times we're trying to

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Speaker 1: help people get insight, which is sort of looking beyond

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Speaker 1: what they have been able to look at so far.

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Speaker 1: And I think with that, like once you sort of

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Speaker 1: look behind the curtain, so to speak, like there are

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Speaker 1: things that come up that are really uncomfortable. Right, Like

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Speaker 1: if you think of yourself as a compassion it or

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Speaker 1: thoughtful person. Yet you realize that you have the real

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Speaker 1: capacity to have these sort of aggressive impulses. Right then

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Speaker 1: being able to like seeing that and feeling that can

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Speaker 1: be really hard because it really challenges the idea of

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Speaker 1: how you see yourself. And so I'll give a personal example,

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Speaker 1: which happens a lot in New York City because that's

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Speaker 1: where I live. I consider myself a pretty conflict diverse person.

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Speaker 1: I don't like arguments. It's just like not my jam.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in a house that was very calm,

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Speaker 1: probably too calm, right, and so I really avoid that.

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Speaker 1: But if I'm on the subway right and someone steps

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Speaker 1: on my foot, my first impulse, the first thought I

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Speaker 1: have is like I want to push or punch this person,

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Speaker 1: whether they intended to do it or not. Right, that's

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Speaker 1: my immediate sceral impulse is like defend, even though I

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Speaker 1: know better, even though I know it's crowded, maybe like

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Speaker 1: they weren't paying attention, like whatever the rationalities. That's my

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Speaker 1: visceral impulse. But that's not how I live my life.

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Speaker 1: I've never done it. I don't really want to do it, right,

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Speaker 1: but that impulse comes up for me and to me,

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Speaker 1: that's something that's so baseline shadow that, like I feel

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Speaker 1: that no matter what I do. So instead of judging

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Speaker 1: myself and then saying, oh, like you are a horrible,

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Speaker 1: violent person, what you really want to do is just

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Speaker 1: hurt the people around you. You wanna take advantage of

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Speaker 1: your size in these ways, and you want to punish

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Speaker 1: someone and make myself feel bad for that, I can

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Speaker 1: say instead, I'm having this reaction. It's because someone did

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Speaker 1: something that pained me or hurt me. How do I

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Speaker 1: actually want to respond. It's okay that I'm having that reaction,

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Speaker 1: it's not okay to do it, So then how do

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Speaker 1: I keep myself from doing it? I can accept that,

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Speaker 1: like that impulse comes up, that those you links come up,

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Speaker 1: and I can say, Okay, maybe a lot of people

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Speaker 1: might have the same vistal reaction, but there's something about

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Speaker 1: it that keeps us from doing that. So maybe I'm

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Speaker 1: like everyone else. Maybe I'm okay. Actually, maybe I'm not

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Speaker 1: an evil, horrible person who wants to harm other people.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a reaction and that I can live

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Speaker 1: with myself with that. And so that's kind of the

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Speaker 1: idea of like it may bring up these feelings or

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Speaker 1: things that don't feel great and really challenge how we

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Speaker 1: see ourselves. And so that's why their compassion piece is

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Speaker 1: so important. So what would be the purpose drill of

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Speaker 1: like learning that about yourself, like learning that you have

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Speaker 1: this impulse even though you wouldn't act on it. How

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Speaker 1: might it be helpful to know if you did shadow

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Speaker 1: work and came up with this conclusion, which just sounds

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Speaker 1: like maybe you have How is this information helpful to you? Like,

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Speaker 1: how do you use it? Well? I think the way

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Speaker 1: that it's really helpful is that if you understand this

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Speaker 1: about yourself. And I think this is what was also

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Speaker 1: Owns theory right about integration and individual ation, which basically

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Speaker 1: means if you come to understand that you have the

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Speaker 1: capacity for these darker, more difficult feelings, thoughts, behaviors, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: if you can accept that maybe that fantasy exists in

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Speaker 1: which you'd like to like push the person who stepped

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Speaker 1: on your shoe. If you can accept that, then it

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Speaker 1: actually reduces the likelihood that you're going to act out

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Speaker 1: on that fantasy because you realize it's just a fantasy,

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Speaker 1: and everyone has that kind of fantasy. Most people aren't

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Speaker 1: going around hitting people, right even if you can do

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Speaker 1: that with the other emotional pieces too. If you get

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Speaker 1: into an argument with your partner and you have this

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Speaker 1: moment where you're like, I'm going to say the thing

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Speaker 1: that I know it's going to be anything that's going

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Speaker 1: to hurt them, I'm gonna go for it because I

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Speaker 1: want them to hurt as much as I hurt. Right now,

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Speaker 1: that's also shadow, and so if you can integrate that,

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Speaker 1: if you can say, like that comes up, then maybe

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Speaker 1: that's something you can keep yourself from doing. Even in

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Speaker 1: those moments too, you can say, oh, I'm feeling really

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Speaker 1: hurt right now, I'm feeling this impulse to hurt you back,

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Speaker 1: and I'm trying to stop myself. So maybe we need

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Speaker 1: to take a break here. And it can be helpful

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Speaker 1: in so many different areas of life so that things

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Speaker 1: don't escalate, even if we're not talking about like physical

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Speaker 1: aggression and violence. M hm. So you know you likened

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Speaker 1: it early on to kind of Freud's concept of the subconscious,

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Speaker 1: and so you know, Young's work is really looking at

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Speaker 1: like our shadow and these things that we want to

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Speaker 1: repress about ourselves, like we don't even want to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: this to you know, to ourselves and other people. Why

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Speaker 1: do you think we work so hard to repress some

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Speaker 1: of these pieces? One, I think that it's natural, right,

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Speaker 1: And so, you know, if we go back to, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of those old school theories about psychology, is that

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Speaker 1: we have these innate sort of defense mechanisms that help

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Speaker 1: us protect ourselves from difficult feelings, from painful emotional experiences,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So, in part, I think that it's natural,

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Speaker 1: and I think that it's really difficult for people to

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Speaker 1: sit with negative emotions in general. Right. I think that's

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Speaker 1: in part because we have these natural defense mechanisms. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that there's a lot of social messaging

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Speaker 1: that we get about how to respond to our emotions.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of pressure out there

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Speaker 1: to be positive, to be a good person, to have

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Speaker 1: the like these certain kind of values. And so if

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Speaker 1: you start to understand that there are parts of yourself

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Speaker 1: that don't fit completely within those values, it's hard to

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Speaker 1: look at that. It's hard to face that. And so

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times we don't want to

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Speaker 1: do that work of looking at ourselves more deeply, because

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Speaker 1: not only does it challenge how we see ourselves. It

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Speaker 1: may challenge how other people see us too, And so

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Speaker 1: then you're getting into the social status, like how you

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Speaker 1: show up in the world, how people will respond to

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Speaker 1: you if they knew this sort of like ugleer hidden

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Speaker 1: side of you. And so I think that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of what keeps people from doing that deeper work is

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Speaker 1: that it is scary. It is scary to face that.

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Speaker 1: So I feel like a compliment too. Shadow work is

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Speaker 1: often inner child work. Is that similar or what is

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Speaker 1: like the connection between inner child work and shadow work. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question, especially because so many people are

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Speaker 1: sort of talking about inner child work now. I tend

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Speaker 1: to frame it as inner child work is or and

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Speaker 1: or can be a part of shadow work, insomuch that

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Speaker 1: the things that we experience when we are younger very

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Speaker 1: easily can become repressed, right because we don't have the

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Speaker 1: sort of skills to really deal with him when we're eight, nine, ten.

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Speaker 1: So I like to think of like inner child work

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Speaker 1: as being a part of shadow work. But obviously you

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Speaker 1: can engage with your inner child in any form of therapy.

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Speaker 1: But I tend to think that, like, since repression comes

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Speaker 1: so easily, for us as children, not easily, but maybe

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Speaker 1: a bit more automatically as children. It really makes it

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Speaker 1: an inner child. Work is really fertile ground for shadow

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Speaker 1: work because repression and denial or extreme compartmentalizing is a

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Speaker 1: hallmark of shadow work. Right. It's like all of pushing

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Speaker 1: all that stuff to the back corner of your mind

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Speaker 1: and you never really look at it. And so I

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Speaker 1: think that shadow work can offer this sort of a

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Speaker 1: good healthy space to engage with those things that have

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Speaker 1: happened in your younger years that maybe you haven't thought

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Speaker 1: so much about as an adult or as someone who's

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Speaker 1: grown up a bit more m more from my conversation

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Speaker 1: with Drill after the break, So I want to read

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Speaker 1: a quote from the book that really stood out. So

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Speaker 1: you said, many people think that the shadow self is

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Speaker 1: all about the hidden, dark and scary material of our lives.

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Speaker 1: While the shadow is the holding space for that kind

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Speaker 1: of material, it also holds personal gifts and talents that

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Speaker 1: have since been tarnished in your mind. Can you say

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Speaker 1: more about the gifts and talents piece? Yeah. Also, it's

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Speaker 1: so weird to have your words right back to you.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, I did write that that that

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Speaker 1: sounds all right, I can't say that, um, And I

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Speaker 1: think this is a good follow up from the Inner

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Speaker 1: Child pieces that anything that is deemed socially unacceptable is

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Speaker 1: also right to be hidden in the shadow, and so

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Speaker 1: that social response can be like the greater culture, it

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Speaker 1: could also be in your immediate family and caregivers and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing, and so many of us, especially

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Speaker 1: if you're more creative, right, I don't know. I'm also

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Speaker 1: a black man who grew up in the Bible belt

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Speaker 1: of North Carolina, and so being creative, right, wanting to write,

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Speaker 1: wanting to do things that weren't athletic and that sort

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Speaker 1: of thing were problems. They're like no, media family was

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Speaker 1: kind of fine, but like the greater social mentioning was

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Speaker 1: very clear, like no, you should be doing these other things.

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Speaker 1: And as a result, like those ideas of the things

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do kind of got pushed to the

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Speaker 1: side a lot, right, and I kind of forgot about them.

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Speaker 1: And so this idea of in the shadow, there can

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Speaker 1: also be these really awesome things about you that you

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Speaker 1: just received messaging about was not okay, that was inappropriate,

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Speaker 1: or you should be focusing on something else. Those things

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Speaker 1: get repressed too, and so shadow work can really help

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Speaker 1: you reconnect with those parts of yourself so that you

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Speaker 1: now as an adult, have the active choice of like,

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Speaker 1: who do I want to be with this talent? Now?

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Speaker 1: Who do I want to be with this gift? Who

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Speaker 1: do I want to be with this personality, trait or

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Speaker 1: part of myself? Could that actually be okay? And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that we talk about the shadow a lot

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Speaker 1: and about what's sort of dark and scary and aggressive,

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Speaker 1: but there are also really beautiful things there too, And

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Speaker 1: I think that being able to work through the sort

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Speaker 1: of barriers, the language, the messaging, to find out and

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Speaker 1: reconnect with what makes you you, there's a really important

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Speaker 1: facet of shadow work too. M. Yeah, can you share

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Speaker 1: any like journal prompts that maybe you shared in this

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Speaker 1: one or the book for particularly for touching on some

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Speaker 1: of this like early childhood stuff that we may have

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Speaker 1: kind of connection with. So in talking about connecting with

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Speaker 1: hidden gifts or talents, like one of the prompts that's

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Speaker 1: offered in the book is well, the prompts are designed

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Speaker 1: to help you sort of discover what the gifts might be,

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Speaker 1: but also discover what the barriers have been. So It

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Speaker 1: starts off with like, what gifts or traits did you

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Speaker 1: have when you were younger that you've lost contact with?

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Speaker 1: What were they? Right? So, what were the things that

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Speaker 1: really made childhood great for you? What things were you

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Speaker 1: interested in? How did you see the world then that

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Speaker 1: maybe you felt like you've lost contact with, and then exploring, well,

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Speaker 1: what contributed to those barriers? What's made that distance persist

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Speaker 1: for so long? Right? Is it the social messaging? Is

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Speaker 1: that the family messaging? Is it preoccupation with other goals

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Speaker 1: in your life? And then starting to think about, now,

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Speaker 1: are there ways in which you can bring that back

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Speaker 1: into your life as an adult? How could that fit

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Speaker 1: into your life now? And getting people to think about

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Speaker 1: that inter ration piece of saying like I can bring

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Speaker 1: this this thing about me, maybe that's really inherently me

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Speaker 1: an inherent part of who I am. How can I

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Speaker 1: bring that forward again? Because maybe it's okay now now

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Speaker 1: that I have the choice, maybe I have more agency,

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Speaker 1: I have more strength to defend it. Do I want

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Speaker 1: to bring it forward now? And how do I want

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Speaker 1: to make it a part of my life? And so

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Speaker 1: it's those kind of questions and reflections that are in

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Speaker 1: the book. Yeah, and I really appreciate that. That sounds

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Speaker 1: like a very straightforward kind of a prompt. But when

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Speaker 1: you think about it, especially in the example that you

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Speaker 1: gave right, so, you know, these pieces of yourself that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't connect with because of family pressure. Now as

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Speaker 1: an adult, if you're journaling on this, are writing to this,

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Speaker 1: then you're also having to come to groups with well,

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Speaker 1: what other things did I learned from my family? And like,

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Speaker 1: what kinds of messages have I internalized that maybe weren't

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Speaker 1: based on what I truly am interested in. That's absolutely

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Speaker 1: the point, right, And that's a really beautiful idea. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know that as a mean or health pro is like,

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Speaker 1: that's a beautiful thing to offer to someone. It can

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Speaker 1: also be scary because then you're like, oh, wait, did

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Speaker 1: I waste time? Am I the person who actually want

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Speaker 1: to be? Am I? Not? Like? What does this mean?

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Speaker 1: It brings up so many difficult feelings that you may

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Speaker 1: have to sort through. M So in the book, you

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Speaker 1: also talked about attachment styles. Can you talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how attachment styles are connected to shadow work? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think that, And there's also a lot of conversation

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Speaker 1: about attachment these days. Sometimes too much uh to be honest.

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Speaker 1: But the reason why I felt it was important to

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Speaker 1: include it in the book was the attachment that we

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Speaker 1: have with family primary caregivers when we're young really creates

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Speaker 1: narratives for us. So whether you really believe in attachment

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Speaker 1: theory or like the specific categories or that sort of

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Speaker 1: thing is less important than the idea that those are

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Speaker 1: relationships and those early experiences inform how we view relationships, right,

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Speaker 1: and so they are likely ways in which every adult

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Speaker 1: acts out some of the patterns that were present in

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Speaker 1: their early life. When it comes to attachment and relationships,

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Speaker 1: that's our primary model for how we relate to the

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Speaker 1: world outside of us. And if there are things in

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Speaker 1: our history that have been difficult for us as it

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Speaker 1: relates to relationships early experiences, if we can reconnect with those,

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Speaker 1: if we can give ourselves space to connect with whatever

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Speaker 1: that hurt or that difficulty or that challenge was, then

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Speaker 1: we can actually start to heal it. Then we can

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Speaker 1: create a new narrative. So then maybe it changes from

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I have a hard time trusting people. Two,

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Speaker 1: I know why I have a hard time trusting people,

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Speaker 1: And this is something I'm going to work on and

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Speaker 1: bring to every relationship moving forward. And so that's why

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Speaker 1: I thought it was important to include some conversation about attachment.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've had this experience. I've certainly

385
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Speaker 1: had this experience of you forget a lot of the

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Speaker 1: details about childhood, these sort of little moments that have

387
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Speaker 1: happened until something really random triggers it. It doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be like traumatic, right. It could just be this

389
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Speaker 1: moment where you got like this very special toy, right,

390
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Speaker 1: and that meant something, maybe admit something in the context

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Speaker 1: of that relationship with that person, and you haven't thought

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Speaker 1: about it for twenty thirty years, but maybe you see

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Speaker 1: the toy, that memory comes back, and then you sort

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Speaker 1: of connect with this idea of like, oh, like why

395
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Speaker 1: was that thing so important? Why was that moment so important?

396
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Speaker 1: There's probably something there that you don't consciously think about

397
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Speaker 1: most days, and you probably shouldn't think about every day, right,

398
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Speaker 1: But there's something there that if you uncover it, it

399
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Speaker 1: probably has some meaning and informs how your relationships move now. Yeah,

400
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: and I can definitely see, you know, kind of based

401
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: on like you said, the theories of attachment and thinking

402
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Speaker 1: about like our very early childhood experiences, like I feel

403
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Speaker 1: like those are ripe for shadow work, right, Like the

404
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Speaker 1: the idea that because of whatever connection or lack of

405
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Speaker 1: connection you maybe had with early caregivers, this is how

406
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Speaker 1: you now show up in relationships. I can imagine that

407
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of shadow work that can sometimes

408
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Speaker 1: need to be done there for sure. And I think

409
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Speaker 1: it's just like you said, it's right, material and information

410
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Speaker 1: and why not make use of those things and the

411
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 1: ideas moving something from just a memory or a potential

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Speaker 1: liability to something that you can use productively and progressively

413
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Speaker 1: in your life moving forward. Right, So what do you

414
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 1: feel like are some of the most common misconceptions about

415
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Speaker 1: shadow work? M hmm. It's kind of funny because I

416
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Speaker 1: don't think there are a lot of misconceptions about shadow work,

417
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Speaker 1: because I don't think a lot of people even know

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Speaker 1: what it is, to be honest, So there's that. But

419
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Speaker 1: by extension of that, I think that people don't think

420
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Speaker 1: that it can be helpful because it requires and we

421
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 1: hear this argument sometimes about therapy in and of itself too.

422
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Speaker 1: It's it's like, oh, if you're looking back or you're

423
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Speaker 1: looking into these deep things, right, like, I'm fine, I'm

424
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Speaker 1: going to work, I have this relationship, I'm doing whatever.

425
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: I'm fine. Things are okay on my end. So I

426
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Speaker 1: think there's this idea that shadow work and really any

427
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: personal development work isn't necessary or can't be helpful. And

428
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: my response to that is you can certainly go about

429
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Speaker 1: life and whatever sort of like fashion or level feels

430
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Speaker 1: right for you. That's not the point of anything that

431
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: I offer is to say that you're wrong. I think

432
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: the idea is that, whether it's with shadow work or

433
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: anything else, is that if you want to have deeper insight,

434
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: if you want to look at yourself from a different lens,

435
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: if you want to have support and in exploring yourself

436
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: in a way that creates a life that really feels

437
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 1: aligned for you, then this is why this work can

438
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: be valuable. This is why it can be helpful. More

439
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: from my conversation with Darrell after the break, you mentioned

440
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: earlier that you feel like a lot of therapists do

441
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: shadow work, whether we call it that or not. How

442
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: are you envisioning perhaps therapists either using this with their clients,

443
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,879
Speaker 1: or clients maybe bringing the workbook to their sessions and

444
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: using and how are you envisioning that. Yeah, that's a

445
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: good question. I think it's both. And what's really interesting

446
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: about this is that it's entry based. Right. You pick

447
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: out a topic or a theme that you want to

448
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 1: look at, and that's how you can work with it.

449
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: And so I've even used some of these prompts and

450
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: these sort of themes in my work with clients, and

451
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 1: so usually like this is a good for therapists, like

452
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: these are good homework activities. Right, So if you're trying

453
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: to peel back some exploration and have a client go

454
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: further in thinking about something, this is a good entry

455
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 1: point or a good way to deepen that conversation and

456
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: then you can continue to explore it in session. And

457
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: you know, the point of any at least to me,

458
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: a book like this is also that people have access

459
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: to do it themselves, right. They can if they feel comfortable,

460
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: they feel like they can sort of do this work

461
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: on their own, they can, right, they can buy the book,

462
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: they can do the entries in a way that suits them,

463
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: and or they can also bring it to session. Clients

464
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: bring things to me all the time, say like I

465
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: saw this thing and like it made me think about this,

466
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: or like I saw it and I kind of felt

467
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: weird about it. Can we talk out it? That happens

468
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: all the time, and so I think that something like

469
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: this could also be really helpful in giving this sort of,

470
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: like like I said, like an entry way into a

471
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: deeper exploration that is less about what's happening in someone's

472
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: life day to day, but it's more about the broader

473
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: themes and the deeper stories we have about ourselves. Darrell,

474
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Are there any contraindications for shadow work? So is there

475
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: any reason why someone might not want to do shadow

476
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: work maybe given what's going on in their lives any

477
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: particular like mental health concerns. Are there any concerns that

478
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: you would want to kind of put out for people

479
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: around doing shadow work. Yeah. Absolutely, I think first and foremost,

480
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: if someone is in any space of crisis, this is

481
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: not the space for them to be doing this kind

482
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: of work. So that's number one. Another one, which I

483
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: mentioned briefly in the book, is it could be really

484
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 1: difficult for people who are struggling actively struggling with depression

485
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: and like severe depression to do some of this work because,

486
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: like we mentioned earlier, it reveals some of the negative

487
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: things that we think about ourselves and my experiences is

488
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 1: that people with really severe depression have no trouble doing that.

489
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: That's often the problem is that they're overly identified with

490
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 1: the parts of themselves that maybe aren't as good or

491
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: not as well. And so if someone is really in

492
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: in a moment, maybe not of crisis, but in a

493
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: deep depression, really struggling, I would say this is not

494
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: the time to do this work, Like wait until you

495
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: feel a lot more centered, a lot more grounded, and

496
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: where you feel a lot more secure, until you sort

497
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: of get into this because it's just going to reinforce

498
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: maybe some of those negative stories, because it lends itself

499
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: to those, like we said, darker thoughts, darker feelings, and

500
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: if you're aready struggling with that, you don't need more.

501
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: So just wait on it. I appreciate you sharing it.

502
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: Aren't there particular experiences or stressors in our lives that

503
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: kind of forced us to deal with our shadow self?

504
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean I think there's so many

505
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: I'll share from a personal experience. In one of the

506
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: entries in this book was like there was a very

507
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: meta process happening for me. So one of the entries

508
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: is about this idea of sort of leveling up and

509
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: like in your career or your personal life in some

510
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: way sort of like facing another challenge. And so for

511
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: me as I was writing this book was that for me,

512
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: it brought up all this other stuff from my own shadow,

513
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm good, I feel confident in my work.

514
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: I know what I'm doing. Yes, I still try and

515
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: learn all the time, but like I feel settled and

516
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: grounded in that. And then all of a sudden, the

517
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: prospect that this book was gonna happen came up, and

518
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: all these old stories came back of like, really, you're

519
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: gonna do this? Do you think you can do this?

520
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: Why would you be the one to do this? Someone

521
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: else will be better to write this book. You should

522
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: probably not take this risk. And so you know, rising

523
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: to a new challenge can certainly bring about sort of

524
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: like shadow or sort of subconscious material to the surface.

525
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: And that's a really good thing, right, It's a beautiful

526
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: thing that I've been able to contribute in this way.

527
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: But it was hard for that reason. So that's an example.

528
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: I think any period of major change can be super revealing.

529
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: And I often think about it as like, sometimes when

530
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: we are really jostled or like shaken. That's a moment

531
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: where there can be a lot of learning. It can

532
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: be very revealing to us. So I think for a

533
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: lot of people, this is something that happened throughout the pandemic,

534
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: Like this big, huge thing happened, and people are like, Oh,

535
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not okay. Actually maybe I don't like the

536
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: life I've been living. Actually maybe I don't like this job,

537
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't like this partner, Maybe I don't like

538
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: where I'm living. What if I've been doing? You know,

539
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: I've certainly seen people making a lot of changes because

540
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: they were faced with this sort of kind of existential crisis,

541
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: and so it made them pull back that veil on

542
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,719
Speaker 1: themselves just said like, oh, I've actually been feeling this

543
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: way for a while now, I just never connected to it.

544
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: I never paid attention to it. Now what do I

545
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: want to do with it? So a couple of things

546
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: you'rell I feel like you just gave me the material

547
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: for my own therapy session as I'm also in the

548
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: book writing process and feeling like I identified very much

549
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: with what you're sharing, right, Like just this idea that

550
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: you're doing this new thing that like stretches you in

551
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: ways that you could not have imagined. So one that

552
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: and you know, I also think there's something about like

553
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: just getting rid of all of the business that was

554
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: happening in our lives when we had the first lockdown,

555
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: so to speak. Like I think that they're just people

556
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: to have more space and more stillness to kind of

557
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: think through some of these things that you just typically

558
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: don't because you're running from thing to thing. Yeah. Absolutely,

559
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: Like busy and hustle culture, it certainly keeps us from

560
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: ourselves in a lot of ways. Yeah, And I've been

561
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: having so many conversations both professionally and personally about like

562
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: people really redefining how they want to spend their time,

563
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: what's important to them, all of that stuff. So yeah, absolutely,

564
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: So how did you decide that this was the book?

565
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you talked a little bit earlier about feeling

566
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: like it was very timely, which I agree with. But

567
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: you do so many different things. I've heard you talk

568
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: about lots of different topics. So how did you kind

569
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: of narrow in on shadow work? Is the thing you

570
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: wanted to have your first book be about. It's a

571
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 1: funny question because it actually was not my idea this

572
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: is in terms of like this being the thing that

573
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: I was going to put out first. Essentially, what happened

574
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: was I had written and shared some information on the

575
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: idea before in an editor reach out to me and

576
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: they said, hey, we think that something along these lines

577
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: could be really good for what we do and what

578
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: we want to offer, Like what do you think. Let's

579
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: have a conversation about it. And it was really in

580
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: that process where I said, Okay, so maybe this is

581
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: the thing, Maybe this is the start of another era

582
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: of sharing information in a different way. And I'm honestly

583
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: just really happy that it's this idea because I am

584
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 1: so to the point of like these personality traits that

585
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: might be shadow kind of stuff. Ever since I was

586
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: very very young, I was called someone who was deep,

587
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: you know, and in early parts of my life it

588
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: was kind of a criticism. You know, it's kind of

589
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: strange to be like a nine year old like what

590
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: does this all mean? But that like that's who I am,

591
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: right and and so you know, once we started having

592
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: these conversations about the book, I said, this is a

593
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: really interesting opportunity to take people there and to really

594
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: take it a step further, take the psychology stuff a

595
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,479
Speaker 1: bit further and say, all right, well, let's get into

596
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: the ugly a little bit. There's a lot of conversation

597
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: about positivity and all of those things in that realm.

598
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: Let's go the other way. Let's look at like, what's

599
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: really sitting back there that you don't want to look at,

600
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 1: what's been really hard for you, what's been the thing

601
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: that's really hard for you to integrate and break out

602
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: of a pattern? Because maybe that's where you should be looking.

603
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,479
Speaker 1: Let's shine some light there. And so it just really

604
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: aligned for me, and I'm really glad that it's sort

605
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: of manifested in the way that it has. Yeah, I'm

606
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: very excited too. I think people will get a lot

607
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: of benefit from going through the exercise and then and

608
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: really paying attention to the things that come up for

609
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: them as a result of working through the workbook. So

610
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: you talked about affirmations, and I would love for you

611
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 1: to share maybe one or two affirmations that you can,

612
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: you know, give our audience who may be interested in

613
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: maybe attempting the shadow work, but maybe feel a little

614
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: daunted by the process. I feel a little worried about

615
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: starting the process. What affirmation or words of encouragement would

616
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: you give them? Sure? I guess I might say something like,

617
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: I can do the hard work at looking at myself.

618
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 1: I can survive understanding the parts of myself that feel

619
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: difficult to look at. These parts of myself are part

620
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: of what makes me human. I think i'd start there's

621
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: feel like a beautiful story. So where can we get

622
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: the book? Derill? When is the book coming out? The

623
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: book is out on septem so very soon. So you're

624
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: like in launch lad, I'm right in the middle of it. Yes,

625
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: So the book is available wherever books are sold, you know,

626
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: so wherever you feel most comfortable. I really want to

627
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: encourage people to support independent bookstores if you can. I

628
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: have a bookshop page myself, so if you want to

629
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: purchase it there That is an affiliate link. But really,

630
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: any major stores Amazon, Target, Walmart going to carry it.

631
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: It's wherever you can get your books, and so if

632
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: it's not at your local bookstore, also call them, send

633
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 1: an email and say like, hey, I think you should

634
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: order this book. I think that our community would really

635
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: like it. That'd be awesome. Absolutely, And where can we

636
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: stay connected with you? Jeril? So what's your website as well?

637
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: As any social media handles you'd like to share, sure,

638
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 1: so you can find me all over because I tend

639
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: to do many things. So I'm on Twitter and Instagram

640
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: mostly at Darrell kind of Bio. So that's j O

641
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 1: R E l c A R A b A L

642
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: l Oh on Twitter and Instagram. My website is Darrell

643
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: kind of Bio dot com. Also, my business is Viva

644
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: Mental Health and that's to handle on Twitter and instag

645
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: him as well. So that's a therapy practice I co

646
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: founded with my business partner and friend, and we are

647
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: in New York, Pennsylvania, and California. We have offices so

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00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: if you're also looking for support and therapy, you can

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00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: find out some information there too. Perfect well, thank you

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00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: so much for sharing with us to day, Jarel I

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00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Thank you for the time, and thank

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00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: you for having me. Absolutely. I'm so glad Jarell was

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00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: able to share his expertise with us today. To learn

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00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: more about him and to grab your copy of the

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00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: shadow Work workbook, visit the show notes at Therapy for

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00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash session to see and don't

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00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 1: forget to text two of your girls and tell them

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00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: to check out the episode right now. If you're looking

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00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: for a therapist in your area, check out our therapist

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00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.

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00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic

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00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: or just be in community with other sisters, come on

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00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Sister Circle. It's our

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00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: cozy corner of the Internet design just for black women.

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00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: You can joined us at community that Therapy for Black

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00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: Girls dot com. This episode was produced by Freda Lucas

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00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: and Elise Ellis and editing was done by Dennis and Bradford.

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00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for joining me again this week.

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Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

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00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,