WEBVTT - Bill Gates Talks Nuclear Power, Tariffs and Disease Prevention 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:06.800 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.719 Hi Bill, thank you again for doing the New Economy Forum. 0:00:12.600 --> 0:00:15.640 We'll begin, I think on greenery, and I've just read 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.520 your new State of the Transition report, and in that 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.759 you start with a bold claim that basically the climate 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:28.480 business in twenty twenty four reminds you, or seems at 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:32.600 the same inflection point that medicine was back in twenty 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.240 twenty when you began the whole vaccines drive. And your 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.599 argument is that we now have most of the technologies 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.159 we need to fight climate change or to deal with 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.879 climate And I wonder perhaps you just give us a 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.320 couple of examples. I know that you talk about a 0:00:49.360 --> 0:00:53.760 lot of technologies like clean hydrogen, aviation fuel and so on, 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.440 but just give us a couple of examples of why 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.600 you think that, because it's a very big claim. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.880 Well, my key theory of change on climate is that 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.240 if the clean approach, the green approach, is more expensive, 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:16.640 that we won't get global adoption. Perhaps rich countries will 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:20.320 subsidize clean approaches, but as you get into the middle 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:26.319 income countries like Brazil, India and others, you know, they 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.880 would say, hey, we have we're not responsible for the 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:38.200 historic emissions and so slowing down are providing basic capabilities 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:42.960 to our population. You know that we shouldn't be impeded. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.680 And so the way to square this is to innovate 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.920 in all the areas of emissions so that the new 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:55.000 approach that's clean costs less. That's either a zero green 0:01:55.040 --> 0:01:58.800 premium or literally a negative green premium, and that's what 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.920 Breakthrough Energy was founded to do. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.280 We have one hundred and thirty companies. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:08.240 A good example is one that's working on the way 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:13.080 that steel is made. You know. They're called Boston Metals. 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.480 They're actually working with partners in Brazil to build a 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:20.120 plant there that looks like it'll be able to make 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.360 very competitive steel, but in a very very clean way. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.080 You know. We have geothermal company called Fervo. We have 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.200 people who make windows called lux Wall that means you 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.480 don't have to heat or cool your building as much. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:39.200 You know. So these one hundred and thirty companies are 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:44.360 driving forward this innovative approach, and we still have a 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.640 lot of work to do to take things that some 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:49.680 which are just at the lab, some of which are 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.760 still quite expensive, but volume is needed to bring the 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.680 cost down, like we saw with solar panels and batteries. 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.760 But we're on our way. You've got the IQ that 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.960 we're in every one of the areas of mission. I 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:07.320 see a path to zero, which means we can get 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.040 adoption where we need it. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.520 Quite interested, and you've backed quite a lot of green 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:14.919 startups or a lot of people in this audience who 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.519 are involved in that industry. You know, some of them 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.359 get to scale, some of them don't. Have you reached 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.200 any conclusion about what is the fact of the success? 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:31.000 Well, everything is is very domain dependent. You know, I 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.040 have to learn a lot about the history of steelmaking 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.040 or you know, different approaches for making cement, you know, 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.040 to understand, okay, why has that stayed the same for 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:44.520 so long? And now that we're getting lots of new 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:49.800 people looking at that, what are these these new techniques? 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.640 You know, teaming up with large companies working in multiple geographies. 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.960 It's very you know, it's very science based. It's you know, 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.080 fund to meet those innovators. It's more capital intensive than 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:08.480 say the digital revolution, and you know, we can't underestimate 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.800 that means that the scale is tough. You know, we 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:17.719 can run into geopolitical barrier sometimes, but on the whole 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.560 you know, even though we won't meet the the highest goals, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.920 we will start to get emissions down and will avoid 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:31.400 this being the primary thing that's slowing slowing down human development. 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.800 About nuclear you've been a big backer of nuclear through things. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:40.200 I looked up kind of Google, Amazon, Microsoft, as you know, 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.760 they're all they're all beginning to invest money in nuclear things. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.800 Do you think the wind is changing? I suppose that's 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:49.560 a bad metaphor, but do you do you do you 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.440 think that there is a change in the way people 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:52.080 are looking at this. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.800 Well, there's certainly a number of countries, including the United States, 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:01.159 where both the public attitudes and the level investment in 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:05.640 nuclear fission are quite positive. You know, at the COP 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.080 twenty eight a lot of countries came together and talked 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.640 about tripling nuclear over the future. So that's very different 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.080 than going into decline. There's a big challenge though, which 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:19.080 is those third generation plants. You know, they have a 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.960 lot of pressure, they're very expensive, they're very complex. So 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.560 as a question, can we get to this fourth generation? 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:29.240 And so you have a number of companies trying to 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:34.160 usher in much simpler designs, including the one I'm involvement 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.239 called terror Power. There's several companies doing that. But yes, 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:43.240 the fact that the tech companies want to be customers 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.800 for green energy, and at least for a period of 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.080 time they're willing to pay a bit of a premium, 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.840 and it's the volume of reactors go up then that 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:55.839 premium goes away. That is extremely helpful to reboot the 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.719 nuclear industry around these fourth generation plants. 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.400 There is an issue, isn't there A lot of the 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.359 attention has been on small, modular reactors or kind of 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.880 reviving old ones rather than building big new ones. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.560 Is that a problem? It looks at it from the outside, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:13.240 but I don't know. 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.680 Well, if you get small, you can do a lot 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.680 of your labor off site, which is advantageous, but it 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.120 also means your efficiency is a lot less. And so 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:28.000 the approach terror Powers using is to have a medium 0:06:28.040 --> 0:06:32.640 sized reactor three hundred and forty five megawatt electric in 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:37.280 our roadmap. If utilities do want big ones, those are 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.039 somewhat more efficient, but you know, first we want to 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:45.560 build dozens of our medium size reactor, and we've been 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.559 able to move some of the labor off site, although 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.279 we still have some on site. But size it's very 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:56.120 tricky to get the efficiency as you get small, because 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.479 it's the kind of the volume of the reactor is 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:03.720 your value in the areas are costs. So it you know, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.479 different people are taking different approaches, and of course we 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.360 have digital design and simulation that is letting us build 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.880 far far simpler plants than ever before. 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.400 What about fusion, I know it's a question. I think 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.720 I'd probably ask you once every five years. Do you 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.559 think that is it always seems to be five years away? 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.160 Or at least that is it? Is it now getting closer? 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:25.520 It's old. 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.640 I mean one or two people recently suddenly saying that's possibilities. 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:33.280 Yeah, so break through Energy we're almost all my climate 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:38.600 work is we know, I'm the largest investor in be 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.880 funded for different fusion companies. The one that's furthest along 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:48.000 is pretty fantastic called Commonwealth Fusion Systems. That's spin off 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:53.120 essentially from MIT, and they're hard at work building their 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.280 prototype facility outside of Boston. And so it's you know, 0:07:57.320 --> 0:08:00.800 you could say it's about six to ten years behind 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.600 the force generation fission, but it has a lot of 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.040 advantages and over time it could be even less expensive. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.880 And so we're backing these companies and you know, they're 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.640 even using very advanced software to simulate how that works. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:22.520 In the long run, fission infusion will be a substantial 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:28.960 part of power generation, complementing the renewables that are are 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:30.240 being built at high speed. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.199 Can I just contrast, because it's you've sort of alluded 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.640 to it a couple of times, the kind of gap 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:41.719 between all the kind of business optimism, the scientific possibilities 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.360 that are now opening up with the political realities which 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.200 seem to be going in the in the opposite direction. 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.640 Just to give you an example, you know, you played 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.240 quite a big role in getting the Inflation Reduction Act 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.080 through in America. You personally went and persuaded Joe Mansion. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:58.960 You know, it was a big deal, and there was 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.680 there was kind of green within that. As we both know, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.040 a good portion of that could well get dumped if 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.720 if Trump comes in, what do you think is the 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.480 most endangered technology out of the stuff that managed to 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.439 get through under that bill. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.719 It'll be interesting because you know, what the Congress will 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.400 see is that that bill is causing a lot of 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:30.280 projects to be built in red states, and so ideally 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:35.079 we'll get some bar by partisan defense of what's being 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:39.040 done there. I do think nuclear is particularly bipartisan because 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.319 it has to do with energy security as well as climate. 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.760 But you could have some things like the electric vehicle 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:50.480 tax credit or the green electricity tax credits. You could 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.839 have them come under attack. You know, I think I 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.040 think they're a good thing. I think they're ushering in 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:03.439 new industries. You know, they're general idea that taxpayers are 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:07.640 going to pay a lot of extra money for products 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.600 because they want to reduce emissions. That has been pushed 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.120 hard enough that there really is a backlash. We see 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.960 that in Europe, we see that the US. And that's 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:22.120 why this theory of UH innovation is the only way 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.120 you squared the imperative to get rid of the emissions, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.120 but without having people say, hey, I'm not going to 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.160 pay for it. And actually, you know that can even 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.560 influence elections if you push too hard. 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:36.160 Do you think that thing? Though? 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.640 On the demand side, in a strange way, the demand 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.880 kick is being given. Now these technologies are un the way. 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.080 It wouldn't be terrible if they wouldn't help if they 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.840 went away, but it would if those kind of reliefs 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:49.440 were taken away. 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.400 Well, you have you have different levels of maturity and 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.160 so you know, I'd say the electric vehicles even without 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.040 the subsidies over I'm they are going even to the 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.400 people park on the street at the low end, they 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.440 will get to a zero green premium. You have things, 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:14.199 particularly industrial emissions like steel cement that we're just building 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:20.640 the pilot plants now, and so without governmental policy and support, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:27.240 the transition of the industrial emissions would slow down a lot. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:32.720 And you know that's that's very unfortunate if that takes place. Likewise, 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.960 in transportation, airlines are you know, the toughest part of 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:42.640 all of the emissions, and and they're you know, without support, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:44.920 that will get pushed back. 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.920 So I ask you one kind of strangely capitalism related question. 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.360 I mean, you have arguably been one of the worlds 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.960 will definitely been one of the world's most successful capitalists 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:59.640 of the post twenty five thirty forty years. Last week 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:01.960 I saw on the stage with Donald Trump and he 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.600 said that he wanted to use tariffs ten twenty percent 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.880 on everywhere, and his argument was this was very good 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.679 for American business and your experience, Does that make sense? 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.520 No, it's certainly not the case. And the difficulty of 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:25.160 convincing voters that pre trade is overwhelmingly to their benefit. 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.600 It's unfortunate how difficult it is to make that case. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:36.280 And so you know, I understand the politician who chooses 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:41.400 to take advantage of that, but you know, we we 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:47.600 will suffer. Overall, welfare will improve less as not only 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:50.120 will if US puts tariff on, of course, other people 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:54.120 will put tariff on as well, and the economic dynamism 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.360 and speed of innovation will be significant, significantly slow. 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:00.800 Just to push you on that dynam point, you know, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.240 it's very easy to make the argument that this means 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.800 higher prices for consumers. But this issue of dynamism, the 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.680 sort of you've been involved in entrepreneurship, these things. 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:10.319 Most of your life. 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.840 If you have less foreign competition, less foreign goods, that 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.560 must have an impact on it. I know it's back 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.640 to a creed you've believed in. But in practice that 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.640 is that argument possible to make? 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:31.480 Devoters Well, we should find articulate politicians who can make 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.320 the case. If you take most of the industries I 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.480 think about, like you know, inventing a new drug or 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.839 writing a new piece of software, or birthing a new 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.640 climate technology, you have these gigantic fixed costs and the 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:49.040 fact that you can do that work and then sell 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.040 it on a global basis means that everybody's getting you know, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.480 faster innovation and lower prices. And if you start to 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:03.280 fragrant markets because of either tariffs or regulatory barriers to 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:09.640 that trade, it absolutely takes away the lower prices in 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:11.400 high speed innovation. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.120 You mentioned health. It struck me maybe this is unfair, 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.000 but health is kind of the opposite to climate. Is 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.600 that at least there were incredible health gains in the 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:22.680 early two thousands. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:23.920 It seems to have stalled a bit. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.000 What's needed to create another global health boom? 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:36.120 Well, I'm actually quite optimistic. You know, both the diseases 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:41.720 in lower income countries and the diseases and rig countries, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.720 we are seeing incredible advances, whether it's obesity drugs, long 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:54.160 acting drugs. You know, gene editing is still super expensive, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.760 but the Gage Foundation is putting a lot of money 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.960 into trying to get that from millions of dollars to 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.400 hundreds of dollars. So we can take a disease like 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.440 sickle salad's prominent napka and as we do that, it 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.920 will benefit all the world's health systems. And then of course, 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.840 you know, AI will be applied in health in the 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.680 upstreme discovery piece to speed up new drugs, but it 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:23.800 will also be applied in the in the downstream delivery, 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.400 sitting in the sessions, with doctors helping with follow up, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:32.640 helping with paperwork, and so I think the health sector 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:39.400 will be an exemplar that AI can improve things quite dramatically. 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.040 There's one thing which is a little bit similar is 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.200 that issue, and you did it in your Netflix series. 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.720 This issue of trust is that there are these things 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:51.320 that appear very logical to do with health, and yet 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:55.400 people don't seem to believe it, COVID being the obvious example. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.080 How do we deal with this sort of deficit of 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.320 trust when it comes to health. Is it just to 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.960 do with a deficit of trust in governments or is 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:05.480 it broader than that. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:13.400 Well, certainly I never expected as the pandemic came along that, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:17.520 you know, many people had warned about the idea that 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:23.800 that people would reach for over simplistic explanations, you know, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.800 like attacking either myself or Tony Fauci, or you know, 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:32.160 attacking the idea of vaccines. I wouldn't have expected that, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.720 and certainly a lot of people, particularly older people who 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:40.760 should have been vaccinated were not, So you know, those rumors, 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.240 you know, literally caused hundreds of thousands of deaths. I'm 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.520 hopeful with that out of the way that we can 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.760 go back to, you know, a more scientific way of 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:57.920 looking at health innovation. You know, the when people see 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.880 the effects of things like these obese drugs, you know, 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.760 to remind them that, you know, we can improve health 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:05.760 pretty dramatically. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.840 I agree the obystis are the obesity drugs are a very. 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.040 Good example in one direction. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:12.919 On the other hand, you have stuff about I don't know, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.800 hurricanes and things like that. You still see that basic 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:21.040 trust that people used to have in quote unquote scientists 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:25.119 and governments is it's it's amazingly small compared with what 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.240 it was twenty thirty years ago. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:32.320 Yeah, you know, they're like these latest hurricanes. Some people 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:41.320 blame me for those two. You know, I'm very busy, 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:47.879 you know it. Hopefully, you know, the basic decisions about 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:53.199 what say and what's beneficial we maintain that, and you know, 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:57.440 I think progress, positive progress will help get people back, 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:05.040 you know, looking at what experts are are telling them. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.399 The truth is One quick thing on health, the mosquito 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.760 borne diseases seem to be a little bit back on 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:15.440 the Rah Tanky and the West Nile stuff. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.840 People, Are you worried about that? 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:19.560 I mean, it just seems to be a slight blip 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.879 in an otherwise very positive picture. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.639 Yeah. Of course. The biggest part of that, which is 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.239 kind of invisible in middle income and rich countries, is 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:34.680 the malaria burden, you know, which is killing about six 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.199 hundred thousand kids a year. You know where you are 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:40.640 in Brazil, Denghy's gone up somewhat. We do have new 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:46.320 tools to reduce mosquito populations, one that's still in the 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:51.800 lab called Jean Drive that the Gates Foundation funds and 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.960 should help us with all those mosquito born diseases. You know, 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:59.359 what we see is when you get a lot of flooding, 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.280 you know, we should get a bit more with climate change, 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:09.800 mosquitoes really thrive, and so places like Pakistan where you 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.159 have very little malaria then when they had the flooding. 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.800 Now it's come back in a pretty big way. And 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:20.199 so you know that innovation pipeline is coming along. It 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.159 should get even more money, but we will be able 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.600 to get rid of those vector born diseases in countries 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:30.439 that want to embrace these new tools. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.040 I'll ask you one last question about Brazil. I mean, 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.359 this is a place we've heard where, especially on the 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.959 climate side, a very very high proportion, probably higher than 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.320 eywhere else, certainly above ninety percent coming. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:43.400 From renewable sources. 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.720 Do you see Brazil as the center of this climate 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.160 It seems to be the center of both the pain 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.520 and the Amazon, but also on the creative side. Is 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.440 that something you've been following well? 0:19:55.440 --> 0:20:00.400 Certainly. I at the UN General Assembly, the Keys Foundation 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.920 had our Goalkeepers event and I gave them a word 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.080 to a loop for the work they've done in reducing malnutrition. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.800 We've been talking with Brazil a lot about COP thirty 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:14.080 that's coming up, and you know that will be a 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.240 very important milestone both for climate mitigation and climate adaptation. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:24.720 You know, Brazil has done some good pioneering things on 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.800 mitigation the deforestation. It's important that that, you know, get 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.760 under control, both for Brazil itself and for the world. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.280 So there's a lot being learned there, you know. As 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:39.600 I said, one of our best breakthrough companies is building 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:46.440 a steel plant with partners in Brazil. So Yes Agriculture 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:53.120 Innovation with imbrapa. Brazil is very strong, So it's it's fantastic. 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:57.000 You know that the issue is is a very important 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:58.919 issue and it you know, deals with kind of the 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.040 equity things that Brazil has been a global leader on. 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:06.520 That's one last thing on that, particularly on Brazil, you 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.119 now much more. It sounds like you're more optimistic about 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.760 Brazil than maybe if you and I talked about it 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:12.800 twenty thirty years ago. 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:14.399 It's a more positive story. 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:20.399 Well, you know, Brazil's got a lot of assets, and 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.359 you know, it's it's kind of a mixed story because 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.760 they've had, you know, challenges with governance and you know 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:29.320 who knows. 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.960 They're like the US. They have a party that's sort 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:39.159 of against all climate things and for Amazon destruction, and 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:41.679 you have a party who's who cares about that. So 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.920 you know, I'm not an expert on what the balance 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.960 will end up being over time. You know, the whole 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:55.399 world has this problem that we do need to invest in. 0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:59.400 You know, Amazon force destruction. We're very good at measuring 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.680 it now because of satellite systems, but the exact policies 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:08.760 that will get us there, you know, still still somewhat challenging, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:13.240 particularly if you get different parties in Power Bill. 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.720 Thank you very much for talking to us again, covered many, 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:17.400 many subjects. 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.040 Thank you very much, on behalf of everyone here. Thank you, 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:21.480 thank you,