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Speaker 1: Body doctors with Joseph Scott More. You ever have family

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Speaker 1: members that you lose contact with? I know, I do.

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Speaker 1: You know? There are people that when I was a child,

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Speaker 1: we actually played together. It would generally be around Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: or maybe Christmas, or maybe a family reunion perhaps, and

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Speaker 1: you would cross paths with them, and you felt as

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Speaker 1: though that with these folks in your life that you

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Speaker 1: would always know them. Particularly when you're young, you remember

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Speaker 1: happy times and that sort of thing, running and playing.

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Speaker 1: And these are people generally that are not in your

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Speaker 1: life day after day, but you know that you're related

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Speaker 1: because your parents have told you that sometimes I really

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Speaker 1: long for that. I would like to reconnect, but you know,

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Speaker 1: as time goes by, you don't, and it seems as

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Speaker 1: though they just kind of vanish into the ether of

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Speaker 1: life and you lose contact, You lose any kind of

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Speaker 1: frame or reference for them. All you have are these

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Speaker 1: kind of images in your mind that are blurred after

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Speaker 1: all of these years. Today, we're going to dig in

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Speaker 1: to a case that was known to have been an

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Speaker 1: unidentified lady that was found actually in Ontario, Canada, in

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Speaker 1: kind of an isolated area back in two thousand and

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Speaker 1: five and as a result of the fine work of

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Speaker 1: our friends at Authorum Labs in the Woodlands, Texas. They

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Speaker 1: have resurrected her from a grave. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 1: and this is body Bags, Dave. You're bound to have

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Speaker 1: a cousin or two out there that you have not

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Speaker 1: had contact with in sometime, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure I said that because you know, as

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Speaker 2: you were talking about that, I'm thinking of I have

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Speaker 2: different friends who have cousins and what have you that

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Speaker 2: they grew up with like you were describing, and then

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Speaker 2: they don't have contact anymore. I didn't grow up that way.

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Speaker 2: Our family was really scattered early on, so I didn't

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Speaker 2: have those. But I always liked my friends that had

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Speaker 2: their cousins and would you know, just when they had

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Speaker 2: a family get together, there'd be thirty people, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and they were all related. I always thought that was

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Speaker 2: the coolest thing.

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Speaker 1: It is kind of cool you. It's like you and

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Speaker 1: here we go, we're gonna be talking about genetics today,

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Speaker 1: But you have that genetic familial connection. Sometimes I wonder

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Speaker 1: if it's almost at some kind of base level that

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Speaker 1: we have that we're not aware of, maybe in our

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Speaker 1: conscious mind necessarily we don't understand why we like these people.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps now, I know there's people out there snickering in

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Speaker 1: the audience right now because they're thinking, I've got plenty

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Speaker 1: people in my family that I would not snicker about.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I'd probably have steam coming

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Speaker 1: out of my ears if I knew that I had

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Speaker 1: to spend time with them. But let's let's think. Let's

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Speaker 1: focus on the happy part of it, right. There's some

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Speaker 1: kind of connection there, there's some kind of and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's if it's from a biological perspective

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Speaker 1: or it's because you've been told by your parents that

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Speaker 1: that you you're related and that they are kin you

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Speaker 1: know that they're a cousin perhaps, and.

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Speaker 2: They are more than friends. This is a blood thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's that's an interesting

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Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing to think about. And I think

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Speaker 1: in the modern world we are so separated from one another,

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Speaker 1: but we you know, you think back to years and

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Speaker 1: years ago where people would kind of stay put in

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Speaker 1: one location and the family kind of extends out eccentrically

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Speaker 1: from you know, Grandma's house, where you've you've got Grandma's

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Speaker 1: house and then you've got all of your cousins that

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Speaker 1: kind of geographically have spread out over that period. You

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Speaker 1: have the ability to get together. But now you know

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Speaker 1: the world that we're in, it's getting more and more

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Speaker 1: diffuse if you will, you know, it's just spread out

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Speaker 1: further and further and further, And I don't know if

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Speaker 1: there's any way to recapture kind of that magic that

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Speaker 1: we once had.

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Speaker 2: Well, now there's those social media platforms that allow for

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Speaker 2: an extended family to actually maintain a relationship. That's not

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Speaker 2: nearly as close as what you're talking about, but it

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Speaker 2: is there. We've kind of traded, kind of traded that,

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Speaker 2: and I agree there probably would be a whole lot

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Speaker 2: more fun and a lot more depth to our character

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Speaker 2: if we had those personalized one on one not online.

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Speaker 2: You know, in the real world, having a cookout for

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Speaker 2: the Fourth of July with the.

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Speaker 1: Whole family there, yeah, or in my case, having my

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Speaker 1: cousin from Texas hit me in the face with the

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Speaker 1: football and my nose was bleeding at Thanksgiving. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't say you got Facebook and X and all

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Speaker 1: those things don't necessarily capture those moments or the pristine

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Speaker 1: images that we see on Instagram, you know where everything

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Speaker 1: is perfect and beautiful.

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Speaker 2: When you were talking about this a minute ago, and

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Speaker 2: I was thinking about I was thinking about our case today,

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Speaker 2: and I was wondering how many of her loved ones

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Speaker 2: wondered when did you see her last? What happened to her?

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Speaker 2: Where did she go? Because you know, every she's got family.

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Speaker 2: We talk about victims all the time on this show,

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Speaker 2: and you and I will point out that you know,

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Speaker 2: they have a mom or a dad, or brother's sister,

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Speaker 2: they've got a child, people that actually care and love them,

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Speaker 2: who don't know where they are and really don't have

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Speaker 2: a way to find out. Maybe filing a missing her

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Speaker 2: person's report February seventh, two thousand and five. You know,

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Speaker 2: you file it because you can't find your loved one.

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Speaker 2: One and eight months after you file missing person report, Well,

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Speaker 2: Rockwood Jane Doe is found YEP, and Rockwood Jane Doe

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Speaker 2: is found in a rest uh. I guess it's a

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Speaker 2: rest area like we have here in the US. I

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Speaker 2: don't really know. I haven't been to Canada, but it

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Speaker 2: was called a rest area in a picnic area of

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Speaker 2: this rest area out the highway and in this picnic

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Speaker 2: area underneath a sleeping bag. A body was found. They

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Speaker 2: called it, they called the body remains. And the remains

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Speaker 2: that they found in August of twenty of two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five did not have any id, no jewelry, and

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Speaker 2: the clothing that the that were associated with the remains

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Speaker 2: were purchased from a store about four hundred miles away

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Speaker 2: from where the remains were found.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and let me point this out real quick. Those

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Speaker 1: when you say from where the remains were found, those

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Speaker 1: those items of clothing were actually purchased in Montreal. So

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Speaker 1: now if you think she's found in Ontario, Dave, and

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, you're talking about Quebec, which

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Speaker 1: is back to the east, back to the east of

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Speaker 1: this location. So that would indicate to us perhaps, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess she could have you know, you think she

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Speaker 1: could have gone into maybe a thrift store, perhaps Goodwill

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Speaker 1: or something like that, whatever their equivalent is, maybe a

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Speaker 1: Salvation Army store in Canada and purchased something there. But

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Speaker 1: you know, clothing is a big is a big issue here.

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Speaker 1: Let me kind of run these down. She didn't have jewelry,

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Speaker 1: and that's not always the case that you don't always

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Speaker 1: think I think a lot of people and we make

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Speaker 1: note of this all right in our reports and investigations.

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Speaker 1: Was a subject wearing jewelry? Well, not everybody wear surey.

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Speaker 1: I think that there's this kind of running narrative that

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Speaker 1: people believe that all women wear jewelry. But every now

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Speaker 1: and then there might be a significant piece of jewelry

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Speaker 1: that the individual might wear, maybe a pennant, maybe a

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Speaker 1: ring that has been passed down from the family. But

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Speaker 1: with her remains, there was no jewelry found.

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Speaker 2: And then further, can I ask you very quickly, Joe, Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: calling the body remains does that have a significant meaning

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Speaker 2: because it's different than saying her body was found unidentified female.

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Speaker 2: Saying remains makes me think we're not talking about what

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Speaker 2: I would think of a body that died in her

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Speaker 2: sleep last night and we found under the sleeping bag today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And when it comes from a law enforcement agency,

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Speaker 1: it's in the vernacular. It's you think about a maybe

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Speaker 1: a funeral director somewhere saying we're going to, you know,

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Speaker 1: take charge of the remains. We're going to and you

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Speaker 1: think about it from that perspective. But when you think

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Speaker 1: from law enforcement or from a forensic standpoint. The first

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Speaker 1: thing comes to mind. There was a book that was

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Speaker 1: written many years ago by Cornwall I think that's called

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Speaker 1: All That Remains, and that has that thread runs through

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Speaker 1: this and you think, well, if you're saying remains, that

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Speaker 1: kind of implies all that's left behind. Now you can

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Speaker 1: look at that spiritually and say, well, this is the shell,

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Speaker 1: the vehicle for our soul. It's absent the soul, and

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Speaker 1: this is all that remains. Or from a scientific perspective,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at, saye, for instance, skeletal remains, which

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Speaker 1: we say that, and that's a very that's very definitive

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Speaker 1: because if we say skeletal remains, that means that there's

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Speaker 1: no soft tissue, right, and that all we have is

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Speaker 1: a skeleton. And as we've talked about before on Bodybacks, Dave,

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Speaker 1: there's not there is not necessarily It's hard for me

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Speaker 1: to remember anytime I've ever recovered a skeleton and it

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Speaker 1: was a completely intact skeleton. There's always going to be

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Speaker 1: there are always going to be elements missing. So what

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Speaker 1: they're having to work with here are our skeleton remains.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps that they're having to deal with the important part.

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Speaker 1: I think from an id perspective, what you're going to want,

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Speaker 1: obviously is a skull. You know, I think that the

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Speaker 1: other elements of the skeleton are very very important, but

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Speaker 1: you know, Dave, we're trying to get some money. I

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Speaker 1: need the most important thing that we that that element

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Speaker 1: that we would really like to have is going to

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Speaker 1: be the skull.

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Speaker 2: All right. So in talking about remains, yes, we are

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Speaker 2: talking about bones found under the sleeping bag.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, yeah, and when and again that can that

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Speaker 1: takes on kind of a sinister air when you think

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Speaker 1: about it. If you have when you're observing a body

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Speaker 1: at a scene, and say, for instance, you find them

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Speaker 1: beneath it's all semantics, right, you find a body beneath

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Speaker 1: a sleeping bag. That doesn't necessarily mean they were in

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Speaker 1: the sleeping bag. Okay? Does that mean that perhaps the

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Speaker 1: body was are all that remained, the skeletal remains were

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Speaker 1: covered with a sleeping back and then kind of discarded

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Speaker 1: and left behind. You know, if I have somebody that

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Speaker 1: is found within a sleeping bag, and even if they're

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Speaker 1: partially skeletonized or totally skeletonized, which by the way, I've

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Speaker 1: never had a case like that in a sleeping bag,

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Speaker 1: you entertain the idea that if they're in repose, perhaps

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Speaker 1: during the maybe they died as a result of some

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Speaker 1: kind of natural event. But being covered with a sleeping bag,

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Speaker 1: and that's kind of an action word is and we're

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Speaker 1: going to cover something. If they're covered with a sleeping bag,

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Speaker 1: maybe you're trying to obscure from view. You're trying to

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Speaker 1: inhibit someone's ability to actually see what's left behind. So

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Speaker 1: how does she wind up here in Ontario. She's wearing

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Speaker 1: clothing that is from Quebec, specifically from Montreal. She winds

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Speaker 1: up in this location kind of an isolated area. And David,

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Speaker 1: I think you'd probably agree, even though you've never been

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Speaker 1: to Canada, there's a whole lot of open space in

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Speaker 1: Canada as far as I can see. I think I

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Speaker 1: was reading something not too long ago and it was

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Speaker 1: showing proportionally where people are concentrated. The population is in Canada.

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Speaker 1: Those population centers are roughly just north of the US

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Speaker 1: Canadian border, Okay, you know, and it varies, you know,

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Speaker 1: in miles northward that it extends up. But along that

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Speaker 1: space right there, that's where most of the population is.

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Speaker 1: And so it's not a densely populated area. But you

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Speaker 1: have a clue here in the sense that it's found

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Speaker 1: along a roadway that this area in which she's found in, Now,

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Speaker 1: was she camping there by herself? Was she camping with

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Speaker 1: somebody else? I don't necessarily know that we will ever

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Speaker 1: know the truth about that, But what I do know

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Speaker 1: is that when the Canadian Mounted Police investigators began to

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Speaker 1: work this case, they knew that they had a female.

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Speaker 1: They knew that she had been there for some time,

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Speaker 1: and there was evidence, Dave, that she had sustained quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of trauma to her skulf brother, Dave, let

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Speaker 1: me ask you a question. You ever come across somebody

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Speaker 1: in your life. There's two parts of this. First off,

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Speaker 1: when you see them, you look at them and you

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Speaker 1: assume what their age is, and maybe in certain circumstances

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Speaker 1: you say, wow, this person must be twenty five years old,

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Speaker 1: But yet you find out later that they're like thirty

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Speaker 1: five years old. And then conversely, find you run into

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Speaker 1: somebody that you believe might be forty and they turn

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Speaker 1: out to be like thirty. Has that ever happened to you?

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Speaker 1: Like you're shocked when you find their age.

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Speaker 2: I don't even want to name the number of times.

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Speaker 2: It's so bad for me too. I stopped assuming because

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Speaker 2: I'll look at somebody and think, yeah, you know, rode

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Speaker 2: hard and put up what maybe but this person based

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Speaker 2: on what you know of their background, you know limited.

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Speaker 2: It's just I've been wrong so many times. You know that, well,

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Speaker 2: you know right now.

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Speaker 1: My wife, Kim, she she always laments the fact that

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Speaker 1: she was in that group of people in high school

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Speaker 1: on if you remember this, but she was that specific

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Speaker 1: group in high school that the drinking age when she

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Speaker 1: graduated in high school was eighteen, and she knew that,

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Speaker 1: and she graduated when she was seventeen, started college when

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Speaker 1: she was seventeen, and then she knew that if she

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Speaker 1: made it to eighteen, she'd be able to drink. Well,

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Speaker 1: they bumped a year up again, and then they bumped

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Speaker 1: it up again, and then they bumped it up again.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about it is, during that period of life, right,

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Speaker 1: she looked she always looked like she was like sixteen

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Speaker 1: the entire time.

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Speaker 2: She's getting no, no if.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't, and she would always you know, she always

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Speaker 1: goes on about it. And me, I think I got

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Speaker 1: my first gray hair when I was like eighteen years old,

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Speaker 1: all right, So I've been at this for a while.

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Speaker 1: People have always assumed that I was ancient. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the thing about it is is that when you recover

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Speaker 1: a skeletal remain, we do a thing. We do. Here's

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Speaker 1: the pieces to this, just so you understand, we do

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Speaker 1: a We do what's called sexing, and what that means

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Speaker 1: is we look at the elements of the skeleton and

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Speaker 1: try to determine what sex the body is that we have.

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Speaker 1: Here's some interesting terms. With males, the bones will tend

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Speaker 1: to be robust, and with females, I love this term.

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Speaker 1: I absolutely love it. Female skeletal remains will be was

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Speaker 1: here referred to, you're ready as grassisle, which means fine,

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean like, oh man, she's so fine.

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Speaker 1: I mean like fine, like dainty, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so we use those two terms, and then we

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Speaker 1: race the skeleton, and certain racial groups will have very

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Speaker 1: specific appearances with them from an anthropological perspective that you

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Speaker 1: can try to peg down. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 1: we do aging of the skeleton. And let's face it,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you were to see my

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Speaker 1: skeleton right now at the age that I'm at, I

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Speaker 1: might look like I'm eighty as opposed to my real age,

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Speaker 1: and it's because all of the wear and tear joints,

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. It's hard to do one of

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Speaker 1: these assessments. But when they discovered Jane does remains, this

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Speaker 1: is the best they could do at the time. Are

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Speaker 1: you ready for this day? This is howed broadly. This

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Speaker 1: was initially reported. They thought they knew that they had

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Speaker 1: a female. And this is the age range as young

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Speaker 1: as twenty five or as old as forty five. Dude,

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but for me, you talk

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Speaker 1: about twenty five and forty five, that's a huge gulf.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you begin, you know, and how do

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Speaker 1: you narrow down from an investigative standpoint, how do you

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Speaker 1: begin to narrow down those numbers? So you've got a

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Speaker 1: missing maybe you're looking for a missing female in Canada.

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Speaker 1: Oh and she's we have her skeleton remains and she

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Speaker 1: is twenty five to forty five?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Gee? Thanks? Yeah, can you give us something more than that?

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Speaker 2: You know what I was thinking. In the last couple

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Speaker 2: of years, we have seen a number of celebrities who

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Speaker 2: Christy Brinkley comes to mind. Who you see them and

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Speaker 2: they do not look their age. She's in her sixties

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Speaker 2: and looks like she's through your thirties. Yeah, but that's

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Speaker 2: not the bones we're looking at. We're looking at her skin.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at what's covering the bones, and so it's

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Speaker 2: tough to determine her age, but the bones. I was

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Speaker 2: thinking about this because I thought that's a huge birth

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Speaker 2: between twenty five and forty five. But from an age

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Speaker 2: perspective and how we grow and things like that, isn't

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Speaker 2: it about the age twenty five when we stop adding

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Speaker 2: on good parts of our body and start diminishing.

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Speaker 1: Starts going yeah, you'll start yeah, that's kind of accurate.

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Speaker 1: You begin to see kind of the wear and tear

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Speaker 1: of life. Everybody, that'sn't sound on my voice right now,

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Speaker 1: do yourself a favor. Take the tip of your tongue

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Speaker 1: and run it around the surface of your teeth and

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Speaker 1: see if you can determine, because this is actually one

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Speaker 1: of the things we look at with scales remains, See

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Speaker 1: if you can determine what side of your mouth you

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Speaker 1: are dependently chewing on. Okay, so let's just say, like

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Speaker 1: I can run the tip of my tongue over the

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Speaker 1: right aspect of my mouth over the surface of my teeth.

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Speaker 1: Those teeth are precipitously worn down compared to the left

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Speaker 1: side of my mouth, so I chew on the right

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Speaker 1: side of my mouth. Well, given my specific age and

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Speaker 1: that that level of where you know that I'm at

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Speaker 1: a more advanced age than say a twenty year old.

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Speaker 1: You know, you think back to when you're twenty years old,

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Speaker 1: your teeth were almost still like puppy teeth. You know,

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Speaker 1: puppy teeth are very sharp, you know, if they bite

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Speaker 1: you or whatnot, one of the other things. And I

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Speaker 1: actually did a paper on this. When I was in college.

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Speaker 1: I took a id audited actually a course at I

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Speaker 1: don't know why the world they let me do this,

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Speaker 1: by the way, at LSU Dental School as an undergraduate,

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Speaker 1: they let me audit a course. I was working for

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Speaker 1: the corner down there, and the guy that taught the

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Speaker 1: class was actually an oral pathologist, but he was also

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Speaker 1: a forensic odentologist, which means he did bite mark assessment

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Speaker 1: and also identity of victims. I did a paper on

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Speaker 1: paloton sutureware in attempting to age specific population. I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what that is. It sounds very fancy, but it's

341
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: really not. The roof of your mouth, which is actually

342
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: your heart palette is a hard bony structure. And did

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Speaker 1: you know that you have suture lines in the roof

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Speaker 1: of your mouth, just like you do on the top

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Speaker 1: of your skull, and so on the roof of your mouth.

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Speaker 1: Over the years, as you eat, as you eat those

347
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Speaker 1: suture lines, you look for what's referred to as suture obliteration,

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Speaker 1: which means they begin to wear down. And did you

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Speaker 1: know your skull, like when you were being formed in

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Speaker 1: Mommy's tummy, and all of those plates of your skull

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Speaker 1: began to come together, you've got the there's an antiir fontail,

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Speaker 1: which is a saft spot on the top of your

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Speaker 1: head that's forward, and then there's actually there's two font nail,

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Speaker 1: the other sawt spot it's in the back of the head.

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Speaker 1: The skull begins to fuse at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: If you ever see a skull, it looks like interlocking teeth.

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Speaker 1: It's a marvel. It's absolutely a marvel of creation where

358
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 1: they kind of lock together like this. Lines in your

359
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: skull actually obliterate as well. So if you get a

360
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Speaker 1: skull and you're examining it at the scene, and you know,

361
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: you see that those sutre lines are kind of obliterated

362
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Speaker 1: or worn down, kind of common sense. You know, this

363
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Speaker 1: person's older, and you say, well, how does how's a

364
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Speaker 1: skull get worn down underneath your scalp? Well, just think

365
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Speaker 1: about every time you've ever combed to brush your hair,

366
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 1: every time you smiled or frowned, all of these things,

367
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: your skin expanding, contracting, all these sorts of things, any

368
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: kind of trauma you sustained. It wears. It actually wears

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Speaker 1: on the surface of your skull. Isn't that amazing? And

370
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: so we look for those little nuanced areas when we

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Speaker 1: find a skull. I find it interesting that in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, they've got a very broad age range. Here, Dave,

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Speaker 1: we're talking, well, we're talking twenty years right one twenty

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Speaker 1: That is a very big one. So I'm wondering how

375
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Speaker 1: many actual elements did they have to examinomen And that's

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Speaker 1: very important that they had the skull. The fact that

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Speaker 1: they had the skull gives us an idea as to

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Speaker 1: perhaps the way that they were able to finally kind

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Speaker 1: of frame this. They knew that they had a female

380
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Speaker 1: from Jump Street now it's unclear if they actually had

381
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Speaker 1: a pelvis, which is one of the big ways that

382
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Speaker 1: we identify male versus female. The pelvic girdle is wider

383
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: in females because it has to allow for the birth canal.

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Speaker 1: That's just the nature of it. And so if you're

385
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: but if you're absent, if your absence pelvis, you can

386
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 1: actually look at the skull and get an idea, particularly

387
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 1: if you'll touch above your eyes where your brow line is.

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00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: Men have these kind of robust brow lines, you know.

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Speaker 1: I always envision myself very primal, you know when I

390
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: think about it, but women's are more that word grassile. Wow.

391
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Speaker 1: So they didn't have confusion over the sex, but they

392
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: had a lot of confusion apparently, or not as much

393
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Speaker 1: information regarding the age.

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Speaker 2: Dave, All right, Now, one thing they did know about

395
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 2: the skull was that this person had pretty massive damage

396
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: to her left cheek, her nose, and eye socket. That

397
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: all had been broken before her death, because they were

398
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 2: able to see that they had time to heal while

399
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 2: she was still alive. Now, is that a part of

400
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: where you could look at that from an aging standpoint?

401
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, because I think

402
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: people think that if you break a bone, it's going

403
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: to remain separated. Our bodies are such a marvel that

404
00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: the bone, the bone, actually it wants to few, It

405
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: wants to fuse with that other portion. Now listen, the

406
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 1: fusion that you get is not going to be necessarily

407
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: what you want. Remember. I think it was just last

408
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: week we did an episode regarding the elderly woman that

409
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: had gone over the bridge with her sister and another man.

410
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: And she had one leg that was actually shorter than

411
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: the other. Remember, she had an untreated Oh gosh, this

412
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: makes my skin crawl. She had an untreated fractured tibia,

413
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: and she had to wear an orthopedic shoe because one

414
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: leg was shorter than the other. Look, nature's going to

415
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: take its course. And what they're seeing here that she's

416
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,959
Speaker 1: got this much trauma. And there's two pieces to this

417
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: that I think are very important. First Off, you can

418
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: kind of get an idea, particularly for a forensic anthropologists

419
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: that's certainly more trained in this area than I am.

420
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: I've just merely assisted them and am fascinated by forensic anthropology.

421
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite things in forensics. You can

422
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,479
Speaker 1: get an idea of this healing that takes place in

423
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: a natural, natural state. So what this means is that

424
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: you're going to have this kind of weird looking fusion

425
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 1: of the bones where the edges are. I don't know

426
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: really how to describe it. Okay, here's a way to

427
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 1: describe it. The next time you go to the grocery store.

428
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: Look at ahead of cauliflower. Okay, And when you look

429
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: at the cauliflower, it's going to be it's got very

430
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: that the base part has got a very textured look.

431
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: That's kind of the way bone looks as it's healing

432
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: on its own. It's not like you've got an orthopedic

433
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: surgeon that's going in there and it's kind of molding

434
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: this and they're going to plait it together or bind

435
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 1: it together in some ways they might surgically, and it's

436
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: going to fuse, and you know where the thing is

437
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: all lined up, it'll be skewed. So you've got that

438
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: and they can do a calculation as to how long

439
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: this has been going on because they know how long

440
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: it takes roughly for bone to heal. Well. Now, some

441
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: of that stuff is depended upon your own genetics. Upon

442
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: nutrition is a big part of bones healing specifically and

443
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: lack of usage or did they continue to do they

444
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: continue to try to lead a normal life as this

445
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: bone is broken. The other piece to this is kind

446
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: of the unknown piece. If this subject, who we know

447
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: as female, has had this much damage, to give me

448
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: those areas one more time.

449
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: That was the chiefly it was her left cheek, left cheeks,

450
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: nose and eye socket and her eye socket.

451
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: So she's had an orbital fracture, which is that kind

452
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: of ring that surrounds our eye, the bony ring that

453
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: surrounds the eye, and there's interconnectivity with the nasal bone

454
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: as well. All the stuff is related to one another.

455
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: And then you have what's referred to as the cheek bone,

456
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: which is going to be inferior to the the orbital socket.

457
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: So that tells me that she sustained some kind of

458
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: probably DAVE, some kind of specific trauma. And we're talking

459
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 1: about I would think at least like some type of

460
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: blunted trauma that would strike her in the face very forcefully.

461
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: So we looking at somebody that maybe was in some

462
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of horrendous fall. Maybe they were in a car accident.

463
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: But if you were in a car accident and you

464
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: sustain this kind of trauma, you would think that you

465
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: would be removed by an ambulance to a hospital where

466
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 1: they would treat you. Maybe she left AMA against medical advice.

467
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: Who knows, but in life, Dave, because they're saying these

468
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: have been healing, So in life she would have a

469
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: very distinctive disfigurement to her or there would have been

470
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: something you can you know she there might even be

471
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: the possibility on that left aspect of her face, the

472
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: lower lid could have drooped okay in her eye and

473
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: she would have this kind of droopy eye on one side.

474
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: Or maybe she was disfigured or disfigured in some ways.

475
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: So she would have been if people knew her in

476
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: life and they saw her walking about, they would say, wow,

477
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: I remember her. She's had like serious facial trauma. And

478
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's one thing if you break your shoulder

479
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: and it doesn't heal correctly, or you fracture a rib

480
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: and it doesn't heal correctly, that can be closed. That

481
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: can be kind of guarded, dude. There's no way to

482
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: obscure your face. Not everybody, but most people have somebody

483
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: out there that cares about them. You might not realize it,

484
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: but you do. In this particular case, where the Ontario

485
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: Provincial Police had essentially named this unidentified set of human

486
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: female remains as Rockwood Jane Doe, they felt as though

487
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: that somebody knew her, and Dave, just for a second,

488
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to revisit what the police believed had happened

489
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: to her, because, as it turns out, she was actually

490
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: found found in this kind of camping area, a woody area,

491
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: and she was wearing a pair of black shorts, base

492
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: tank top, white underwear, peach colored bra. That would give

493
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: us an indication if she's wearing Listen, if you're in

494
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: Canada and you're wearing black shorts, that gives us an

495
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: idea that perhaps the period of time of year when

496
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 1: she died may have been in the warmer months. So

497
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, we're looking for things in what I refer

498
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: to as our investigative funnel, that kind of things down

499
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 1: from an informational standpoint, So that would be a big

500
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: you know, chronologically, at least our timing wise, that would

501
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: give us an idea that, based upon the clothing that

502
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: she had on at the time that it was, it

503
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: was warmer. Because I don't know about you, but I

504
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: can only imagine how nippy it gets in Ontario, Canada

505
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: in the wintertime. You know, we're talking about sub zero freezing,

506
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: this sort of thing. And the police say that she

507
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: apparently was in the sleeping bag because they felt as

508
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: though it had been drug some distance from an adjacent

509
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: area and placed there.

510
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

511
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: So to this point, this is not They're still investigating

512
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: this case as a suspicious case, right. But with all cases, Dave,

513
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: with all cases, if you don't have an id specifically

514
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: who this person is. We can talk all day long

515
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: about anthropological findings as it applies to the body. We

516
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: can talk about trauma and all that. That still doesn't

517
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: get us any closer to what may have happened. And

518
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: I think in this particular case, we've got good news

519
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: because she's been identified. We know who she is. Dave.

520
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you were talking about how you know

521
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: she was dragged and I because they say her death

522
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: is considered suspicions. Yes, yes, I'm thinking the way they

523
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: had phrased it, with the body found under the sleeping

524
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: bag and description of the short pants and things like that,

525
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 2: and they're able to come up with because we know

526
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: they discovered the body in August of two thousand and five,

527
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: and according to police, they say that they believed that

528
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: her body had been drug about a month before her

529
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: remains were found. And I'm just kind of curious. How

530
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: could they determine We know, we have a set of

531
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: remains that the best we can come up with is

532
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: an identity is a twenty year framework between the ages

533
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: of twenty five to forty five female. We know she's

534
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: had a lot of facial damage in life that has healed.

535
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: How could they even figure out that at some point

536
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 2: you probably was dragged a month before her remains were found.

537
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 2: I think odd to me.

538
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it does seem odd. I think for me

539
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: what they're looking at. You could do it two ways.

540
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: First off, we look for drag marks on the grounds.

541
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: That's a common thing that we do at crime scenes,

542
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 1: just to confirm everybody, you know, because that comes up

543
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: in the press quite a bit where there are any

544
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,479
Speaker 1: drag marks. You know, you hear that a lot. You

545
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: can have drag marks on the ground that you can appreciate. However,

546
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: here's here's a piece that you might not have thought about.

547
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: Clothing and any and any instruments such as a sleeping

548
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: bag or blanket that's used to facilitate this is going

549
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: to show evidence of dragging because it transfers when that

550
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: underlying dirt. For instance, if you're going over a dirty surface,

551
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: that transfers in these kind of strided streaking marks on

552
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: the undersurface of something in particularly, I mean, just think

553
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: about it. If you've ever drugged something on your own

554
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: that's heavy, as you're dragging it along, you're picking up

555
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: bits of earth with it, and it makes striations. They're

556
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: kind of they're streaks linear like this that are parallel linear,

557
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: and they're running on the undersurface. I would think that

558
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: maybe the undersurface of whatever she was contained in had

559
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 1: given them an idea that she was drugged to that

560
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: location and then someone attempted to obscure her. So the

561
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: reason they're investigating this as a suspicious death is that.

562
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: Is that drag herself to that.

563
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: She didn't drag herself there and then cover herself up,

564
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: So they're thinking somebody had hand in this. There's somebody

565
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 1: out there that had an awareness of what brought about

566
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: her death. But you know, the first step in any case,

567
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: particularly in a homicide investigation, and I would imagine our

568
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: friends in Canada. That's what they're faced with right now,

569
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: or were faced with. They got a big piece to

570
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: this now is trying to determine specifically who they are.

571
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: And listen, if you don't have any idea on you

572
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: at all, and you're in your body is at least

573
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: partially skeletonized, I would assume fully, then all you're left

574
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: with are the skeletal remains. You have to do whatever

575
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: you can from a biological standpoint to try to get

576
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: the body identified. And they've met now with great success

577
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: because of our friends at AUTHORM.

578
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 2: Dave, I'm so blown away by what authoram does. Yeah,

579
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful that you have taken time to explain

580
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: to me. I wish y'all could know some of the

581
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: conversations we've had away from the show, because there's so

582
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: much there that they are doing. But as we explain

583
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: the case of another Jane Doe being named, all I

584
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 2: can think of is how authorm the amount of time

585
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: that is spent to do this kind of work. It

586
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 2: is so intense that these scientists are only allowed to

587
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 2: work a certain amount of time. There's a time limit

588
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: before their brain can't hand. They have to be stopped.

589
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: I say, Joe, you've got to take a break. And

590
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: it's because of the intense work, but the fact that

591
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: it's not some government world government funding that helps with this.

592
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: It's almost crowdfunding on the individual case. And that's what

593
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: to me. I'm thinking, of all the things in this

594
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: world that we fund, you know, with tax dollars, this

595
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 2: would be one that would be well worth the investment.

596
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: But until then, we're going to keep telling you about

597
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: the great work Authrom does because if you've ever dealt

598
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 2: with a loved one that was missing for any length

599
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: of time, you know that pain, you know the emptiness.

600
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: And Authram is actually providing answers to families on a

601
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 2: daily basis, just like this family. They did report her

602
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,319
Speaker 2: missing in February of two thousand and five. Rockwood Jane

603
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: Doe was reported missing, not as Rockwood Jane Doe. She

604
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: was reported missing by her actual name. The remains were

605
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 2: recovered in August of two thousand and five and remained

606
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: unidentified for how many years Joe, oh, eighteen?

607
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, at least eighteen years. And they were able

608
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: to get this is the beauty of it. They were

609
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: able to harvest DNA sample from what remained of her.

610
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: Now it's unclear at this point in time where this

611
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 1: harvest took place from this acquisition of DNA material. And

612
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: keep in mind what what our friends at Athrom have

613
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: to do is let me see how can I put it.

614
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to. I don't want to go into

615
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: the spiritual realm here. But it's it's almost a miracle

616
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: at the level that they operate in because they don't

617
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: it's not like they show up, you know, like anybody

618
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: that's ever had like one of these DNA tests done online.

619
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: You're talking about a DNA test that where you're taking

620
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: it from a sample from the mouth where they do

621
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: the chee cheek scraping. That's that's very rich DNA that

622
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 1: they're utilizing here. That's not what you have in forensic cases.

623
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: They're having to take something. And the Middleman's at you know,

624
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: David Middleman and his wife Kristen, they have developed a

625
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: specific methodology to go in and harvest harvest this this

626
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: DNA from bone or teeth or wherever they can acquire

627
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: it from. Maybe sometimes if hair is still existence, they

628
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: can go in there and take this DNA and kind

629
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: of replicate it. If you will to try to build out,

630
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: build out a profile on an individual. So it's not

631
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: just it's not just the harvesting of the sample itself,

632
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: but it's also involving Now, get this, involving your cousins.

633
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: Remember how we talked about cousins early on, Dave, you know,

634
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: with family and that sort of thing. Cousins lead us

635
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: back to the answers here and in the case. In

636
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: the case that we're talking about today, we're talking about

637
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 1: a woman who has been identified as a Tammy Pinner. Now,

638
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: this is what's so interesting about her case, and Dave, Geographically,

639
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: we know that she was wearing clothes from where do

640
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: you recall where did you get this?

641
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: Montre miles away in Montreal.

642
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, from where her body was she the clothing that

643
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: she had was purchased in Montreal. Let me just I

644
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: just want to paint this picture for the listener so

645
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,320
Speaker 1: that I understand what a massive area this is for

646
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: under away four hundred miles away in Montreal. The clothing

647
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: that she's wears acquired she's found dead in Ontario. That's

648
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 1: not where she's domiciled, Dave. She's domiciled on the Pacific

649
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: coast in British Columbia. All right, that's where her journey

650
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: actually started. This is a massive area. That's what's so

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00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: striking about this case. And so when Authurne was able

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00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: to actually harvest this sample and begin to go through

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00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: all of their testing, they were able to conclude vis

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00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,959
Speaker 1: vi forensic genetic genealogy, they were able to build out

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00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: a family tree and determine who she was. Now, you know,

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00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: how horrible is it if you've you know, we reflect back,

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00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 1: how horrible it is that, you know, we lose touch

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00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: with these people who you know, maybe from childhood, that

659
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: we cared so much about, that we loved and thought

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00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: for that moment time that we would be together forever. Unfortunately,

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00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: life doesn't work that way, it just doesn't. We drift apart,

662
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: we lose touch, But in the end, it's it's our

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00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: genetics that do in fact keep us connected. And in

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00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: this case, at least, the mystery of who she is

665
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: has been solved. What's important now is to try to

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00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,439
Speaker 1: determine who exactly it was that had something to do

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00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: with this woman's death, if they knew about it, or

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00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 1: if they perpetrated it. Make sure that you check out

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00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: our friends at Authorm. That's ot r AM dot com

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00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: O thh r am dot com. And keep this in mind,

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00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: they don't take a nickel from the government. Everything they

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00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: do is self funded. If you want to make a

673
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: difference in this world, there are thousands upon thousands upon

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00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: thousands of unidentified bodies all across our nation and all

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00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: around the world that authorm is willing to work on.

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00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: But they are heavily reliant on our donations, so please

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00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 1: take a moment check out their website and see if

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00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: there's any way that you can help out. I'm Joseph

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00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags