WEBVTT - The Future of Copyright and IP: Part 1 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:15.680 Forward Thinking, either and welcome to Forward Thinking, the podcast 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.520 that looks at the future and says alone and board 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:20.840 on a thirtieth century night. Will I see you on 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.600 the prices right? I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren, and I'm 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.840 Joe McCormick. And how are you guys doing today? I'm 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.480 not too bad? Pretty good? How about you? Oh, I'm 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.040 all right. I'm actually very excited about the episode we're 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.360 doing today because it is an excellent topic that came 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.919 in from a listener. Our listener, Dave sent us an 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.879 email asking us to do an episode on creativity and 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.320 intellectual property and what the future holds for them. Hey, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:50.320 and just so you guys know, this is going to 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:52.959 be a two part episode of Forward Thinking. We originally 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.200 planned on it just being a one part episode, but 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.200 then we got to the end and realized it was 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.720 longer than the longest thing that was ever long. So, uh, 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.400 this is a little bumper to let you know. This 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.040 is part one. Check out part two next time. Lauren, 0:01:08.080 --> 0:01:11.319 would you be kind enough to read Dave's email? Absolutely, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.279 Dave says, Hey, forward Thinkers, I really appreciated Jonathan's recent 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:19.360 text Stuff episode exploring creativity and intellectual property issues with 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.200 Mark Hustler of Negative Land, and I'm wondering what all 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.639 three of you might have to say about a related topic. 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.080 Side note, Jonathan, excellent job on that. Oh yeah yeah, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:31.160 and Nol as well. That was a really really fun episode. Um, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.280 so go listen to that. Back to Dave's email, Today's 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.080 artists face many new and seemingly insurmountable challenges to creating 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.120 truly original works after so many decades of postmodernism, mass media, 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:46.600 and computer assisted Sky's limit creation, where millions of artists 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.080 have already explored the past, present, future, and furthest reaches 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.520 of the imagination. Is every new picture, sound, and story 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.760 now pretty much doomed to resemble something else that came before? 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.840 And how does copyrate law play into this? Are any 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.200 amos contemporary works really so different from lesser known works 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.200 at the same variety or are they just lucky to 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.080 have gone viral for whatever reason? Are the creators and 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:14.120 or owners of popular media unfairly privileged and protected? Should 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.640 other artists have more leeway to adapt iconic works and 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.960 sharing their overall success? Specifically and most importantly, will there 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.200 ever come a time when I can sell my Harry 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.280 Potter e Studied Universe spinoff on Amazon? Thanks for all 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:32.040 the great podcasts, Dave. And then in a ps he 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.080 gave us the lyric suggestion which Jonathan used, which like 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.799 an automaton, you followed his command like like someone who 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.560 didn't have to try and figure out the lyric. Thirty 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:46.359 seconds before we hit record, I used the suggestion. Well, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.240 thanks Dave for this excellent suggestion. I think this is 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.600 a really great topic. This is actually something that we 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.600 were wanting to talk about anyway, So I I thank 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.280 you for giving us the willpower to do it. Yeah, 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.160 you read our minds and sent us of really terrific emails. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.600 That thinks, But I guess we should back up and 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.880 before we can talk about the future of creativity, copyright, 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.440 intellectual property, look at what's the reality today and how 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.280 we got to where we are. Yeah, I mean you 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.800 have to have an understanding of what what all these 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.360 terms actually mean, because people throw them around a lot. 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:21.760 A lot of terms, you know, copyright or trademark or 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.520 patent or fair use. These are terms that that get 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.519 used pretty liberally, and I don't think that everyone necessarily 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.320 has a full understanding of what they actually mean. Right, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.960 So let's say that I write a book. All right, 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.400 you write a book, and then I trademark that book. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.200 Now you can't do that? Well, well, no, hold on, 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:45.320 hold on, I patent that book. You can't do that either. Okay, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.920 what if I make an invention and I copyright that invention, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.320 that's I would be more of a patent thing, you know. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.320 Wh Why don't we just define these things? Okay, and 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.040 let's let us state that this is we're talking about 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:00.280 the US here, although a lot of international law kind 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.480 of falls in line with what we're talking about. But 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.080 your mileage may vary depending upon what country you happen 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.720 to live in. But uh, some of the decisions that 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.920 have been made in US copyright history have been in 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.320 part to bring it in line with international standards. So 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.160 first we have to define what a copyright is. A 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.800 copyright is a protection for an original work of authorship 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.920 that's set down in a fixed tangible medium, according to 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.640 the United States anyway, So we'll get into more of 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.760 that in a second. It makes sense you have to 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.760 have sort of created this work in some way that 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.560 you could show somebody. It can't be just an idea 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.680 you had, right, You can't. You can't think of an 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:43.720 idea for example. I remember this happened to me and 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.600 my wife. I chatted with her on we were on 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:48.560 a subway train and I turned to her and I 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:53.520 just said, apropos of nothing. I said, um, uh, if 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.080 I die before you, you know I I've filled out 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.640 my my Oregon donation card. If I did before, you, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.800 please promise me you won't fall in love with whichever 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.640 guy gets my heart. And then she said, that's the creepiest, 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:06.320 weirdest thing you could say to me right now. And 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.040 then about about a year and a half later, a 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.720 movie came out with essentially that premise, and David d Kovny, am, 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.160 I right. I maybe I don't remember everything that. I 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:17.800 don't remember who was in the movie, but I do 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.480 remember the premise was that. No, I think you're thinking 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.160 of that Benicio del Toro movie. It may very well be. 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:27.600 All I know is that the premise was woman in 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.640 manner in love, one of them dies, the other one 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.039 falls in love with the person who receives the heart 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.920 from the original partner. And uh. And so I could 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:40.279 not claim copyright on that. I didn't set that idea down. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:42.240 I didn't write it down in any sort of fixed 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.200 tangible medium. I simply that I made a joke to 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:49.520 my wife. But of course then I joked that someone 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.960 on the train must have written that movie that they 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.320 stole my brilliant idea, which obviously it was me just 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.520 being silly. But if I had fixed that down in 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.440 a tan will medium, then that work would be protected 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.480 under copyright, assuming in fact that it is an original work. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.720 That's the That's another important distinction. So, but also, you 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.120 can't just copyright anything that's made of language. You can't 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:18.880 copyright like a word or a name or something, right, 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.599 it has to be more significant than that. It can't 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:25.719 be a title, you know. You can't copyright a character name. Yeah, 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.880 you can copyright a poem or a short story or 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.239 a novel or a play or anything along those lines. 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.280 Piece of software, a piece of software you can copyright. 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.000 And this copyright, by the way, exists the moment you 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.839 set it down in a fixed tangible medium. It doesn't 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:45.120 have to be that currently exists. Yeah. Now if it 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.240 is registered, that's going to make it easier for you. 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.280 Should you ever have to pursue a claim of infringement 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.560 that someone else has infringed your copyright. That registration will 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.200 make it much easier because you can refer to an 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.760 official document showing that you registered the with the government. 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.719 They have acknowledged that you are the author of that piece, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.880 and therefore that gives you an advantage in any sort 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.200 of courtroom situation. If I were to write something down 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:13.600 not register it, Joe reads it, I haven't published it 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.480 in any way, haven't It's it's still there. Technically it's 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.960 under copyright. But if Joe goes out types out an 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.040 exact copy of what I've done and then registers it 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:27.440 to the government, yeah, the government assumes that you, Joe, 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.440 are the original author and that I am out of luck. 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.600 So that's copyright. But let's hear about more of my 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:36.080 nefarious schemes. So like the trademark. Well, let's say I 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.520 want to open a food truck business, and I want 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:45.880 I want to sell Hamburgers out of a food truck. 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:49.920 And let's just say, because I just really happen to 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.400 like Scottish culture, I call my food truck McDonald's, after 0:07:54.600 --> 0:08:00.280 the McDonald clan of Scotland. Old Yeah, and I side 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:01.960 that it would be really cool to have a red 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.239 background with some like yellow arches on the truck because 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.280 that makes people hungry for hamburgers. So what you're what 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:14.440 you are suggesting, unfortunately, would be a trademark infringement. Trademarks 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.680 are words, phrases, symbols, or designs that distinguish the source 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:22.240 of goods from one party from all other parties. And 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:26.280 it's essentially to say, when you see this particular symbol, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.160 you know that the goods or services you are are 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.800 purchasing come from this one particular source and no other. 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:36.559 And therefore, if you were to try and copy that 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.520 in any way, it would be as if you are 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:44.319 put portraying yourself as that other entity, which is wrong. 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:46.400 You can't do that. I mean, you could do that, 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.040 but you're gonna get sued like crazy. It's kind of 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.080 like the business equivalent of making a fake I D Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.720 pretty much is. And uh, technically there there's actually a trademark, 0:08:56.840 --> 0:08:59.600 and then there's a service mark. Service mark is really 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.800 for a companies that provide services, not physical goods, but 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.560 we tend to use the term trademark for both because 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.520 it's the more common just the more common term, but 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.439 at any rate that's trademark. So we've got copyright and 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.680 trademark sorted right. So copyright is any any work that's 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:17.880 been put down in a tangible medium that, by the way, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.520 doesn't have to just be written. Working also includes music. 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.600 I didn't mention that, but arks, and yes as well, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.959 anything that is that tangible thing. You can have that 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.000 as a copyright. The trademark is more of a business 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.839 sort of thing that's associated with a particular purveyor of 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.360 goods or services or both. But then we've got the 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.719 third one, the one that you also mentioned as a 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:41.120 possibility if you had created an invention of some sort. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:47.280 The protection for inventions is a patent. So patents are 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.160 kind of a limited protection. It gives you a certain 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.840 period of time during which your idea of an invention 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.480 is protected, but it's publicly filed, so anyone can go 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:02.120 and see what how your invention, at least from a 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.199 very high level works patents. By the way, if you've 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:10.199 never read one, try one. They are interesting. Okay, I 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.160 really enjoy pat They can often be very obduse and 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.120 difficult to understand. They're great if you like sequences of 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.920 numbers and letters within parentheses, yes, and diagrams that are 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.319 not necessarily helpful. Right and for those versed in the 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.600 art or or some similar phrasing, you will you will 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.679 come across that a lot as well. But patents are 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.599 very useful. They in return for filing this public declaration 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.559 of how your your invention works, the government provides protection 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.000 for your inventions. So should someone else try and make 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.040 essentially a similar invention that does what your invention does 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.040 using a very similar methodology, you can pursue a patent 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.319 infringement claim against them, right right. For for example, I 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:03.559 think Michael jack And patented the specific stage shoe that 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:09.400 he used to do that leaning trick in Smooth Criminals. Um, yeah, yeah, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.120 And it was a It was a shoe that had 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:13.440 a little device inside of it that would hitch into 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.520 a specialized hitch in the stage and allow him to 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.320 brace against that to do that. Let'll tell you how 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.240 many tomes of broke my nose trying to recreate that 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:24.319 particular move, not realizing I needed special shoes. On the 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:26.680 other end of things, I believe that w D forty 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.080 has never patented their formula because they don't want anyone 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.640 to know what's in it. Yeah, you don't have you 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:36.040 have to have to patch your stuff. If you don't 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.160 patent your invention and someone reverse engineers it, then you 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.080 don't have that protection from the US government or whatever 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.800 government you happen to, you know, belong to be part of, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:51.840 oversee you, etcetera. Uh, then that's that's a different issue altogether. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.360 But on the other hand, once that that that protection 0:11:56.440 --> 0:12:00.280 period is over, then it's fair game. Any comp editor 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.120 can come in and create an invention using that same design. 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:09.000 Can you patent something that doesn't work? Yes, it's supposed 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.400 to work. It's supposed to work. But here's the thing 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.000 is that if you're in the patent office and you 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.839 receive patents, it's not like you can go out and 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.839 build everything that someone has created. So you could just 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.040 sit there all day filing patents on designs for things 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.280 that might not work at all. Why don't you do 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.480 a search for patents for perpetual motion machines if you 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.040 want examples of stuff that does not work, and you 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:35.080 can sometimes claim like like partial responsibility for someone else's 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.120 patent if you have a patent for similar It gets 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.560 very tricky. It does and there are also other elements 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:42.720 that you have to consider, like depending upon the government, 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.959 they define patents in very specific ways. For example, you 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:50.320 can't patent something that's a natural occurrence, right, You can't 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.360 patent the sunrise, something along those lines exactly. So, uh, 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.440 there are definitely limitations built in so people don't try 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:00.439 to take advantage of the system. But some times we 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.840 have to write those afterward after someone has taken advantage 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.760 of the system. Yeah, okay, Well, let's get a quick 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.560 history on where copyright comes from, because obviously we did 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.440 not have this in ye old ancient times. This is true, Well, 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.040 we had him in semi yield ancient times. The printing 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.839 press actually pushed copyright into being um first in the 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:25.120 mid fourteen hundreds in Italy, when the Venetian Senate began 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.480 granting printing licenses, essentially like monopolies on certain works to 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:33.560 particular printers and authors. Over in England, after a few 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.079 similar licenses were granted, Henry the Eighth started a proud 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:41.320 tradition of royal decrees that gave the government power over 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.000 what was printed and who printed it. Big surprise from Hank, 0:13:45.280 --> 0:13:48.480 you know right right. The Church wasn't enough for him 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.439 he had to have all the printed words to so 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.199 much censorship. Yes, and before this, obviously it was not 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.520 a big concern because if you wanted to copy of work, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:01.120 you pretty much first needed to go to a monastery. Yeah, monks, yes, 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.160 and yeah, because you probably couldn't write. If you could, yeah, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.160 you were probably a monk, and so was. It probably 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:08.920 took you a few years to copy out a book. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:17.200 Total monkey business. Oh anyway, So for over a hundred 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.960 years in England that that privilege of of printing went 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.840 to a company called the Stationers Company. And uh, that 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.240 was up until these laws got struck down during some 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:32.680 age of enlightenment kind of ideals that were going around 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.160 the country at the time. That was a whole lot 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.200 of like information wants to be free kind of stuff. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.240 Sound familiar to anyone who's paying attention today, Yeah, yeah, 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.160 but in a British accent obviously. Um and uh, Stationers Company, 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.120 if you can imagine this, was faced with a sudden 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.760 influx of competition and not too excited about it. So 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.320 they petitioned Parliament a whole bunch of times in the 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.560 next few years, um to to try to impose new 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.240 printing regulations, and the one that uck was their attempt 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.720 to profit by pushing authors to the front lines of 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.640 their fight, and that one was the Statute of Anne 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.200 of An uh so called because it was passed during 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.440 Queen Anne's reign. Yes, yes, uh so. In seventeen ten, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:19.480 the British Parliament signed into law the act that protected 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:25.600 the owners of original works for fourteen years. So yeah, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.040 Actually at the time, at the time, some people were saying, 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.480 that's really long. That's a long time. Fourteen years. You 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.680 mean I can't I can't take advantage of someone else's 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.760 work until fourteen years after it was set down. I 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.280 guess to be fair, people didn't really live past their 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.240 sixties at that time. You can't understand why we were laughing. 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.440 You will in a bit. So after that the work 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.800 would pass into what we call the public domain, which 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.360 is when you can have free use of that that 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.640 original work. Uh So. Others would actually see their works 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.640 become public domain within their own lifetimes, often not always obviously, 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:01.520 if they published lay in their lives, they might not 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.560 live to see that, but they would also have the 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:08.400 opportunity to make money off of that freely for fourteen years. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.680 With the protection of the government should anyone come in 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.520 and try to undercut them by selling copies, and whatever 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.520 printing press they were using also had protection by the government, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.360 which made the stationers happy. Maybe not as happy as 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.200 they could have been, um, but happier. And and we 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.800 mentioned all of this history because first of all, I 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.000 think it's it's just fascinating that, um that the that 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.080 the profit of a particular company was in play and 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:37.920 copyright law this early, from the very beginning. And um, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.560 and be that that that statute of ann directly influenced 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.160 the law that was created here in the United States. 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.880 That's correct. And in the United States, it's part of 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.800 the US Constitution. It's an Article one, section eight, clause eight, 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.440 which gives the government the power to quote promote the 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.840 progress of science and useful arts by securing for limited 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:00.880 times to authors and inventors the exclusive to their respective 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.159 writings and discoveries end quote. So kind of patents and 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.080 copyrights being that's that's the groundwork being laid for the 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.840 United States to establish its own offices to oversee that 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:15.040 sort of stuff. Um. Now, in Congress pass the Copyright 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:19.760 Act of it would have been Yeah, it would have 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:21.400 been odd to do a different year at that point, 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.120 which granted copyright for fourteen years just like the Statute 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:28.000 of ann and allowed for a fourteen year renewal option 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.280 should the author of the work still be alive or 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.560 the owner of the work still be alive. Yeah, so 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.480 corporate interests aside. Looking at the language in the U. 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:38.879 S Constitution kind of gives us an idea of the 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.159 thinking behind copyright law, which is that it's there to 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:49.399 incentivize good creative work. Right. If the thinking goes like this, Uh, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.000 if an author or creator of any type feels that 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:55.840 he or she is not going to be able to 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:59.200 profit from their work, then why would they ever go 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.600 into it? Why would a poor in the effort, the talent, 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.680 the possibly the money in creating this there was never 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.639 going to be any return. Speaking as an artist, I 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:14.240 think that that still happens a lot anyway. But anyway, Yeah, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.240 Actually I wouldn't put it in exactly those terms because 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.879 I think a lot of times artists and and people 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.480 who are pursuing creative works one way or another that 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.359 enrich our culture would still want to pursue those works 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.200 even if they weren't going to make a lot of 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.720 money off of them. But they need to be able 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:35.320 to make something in order to devote time that would 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.600 otherwise have to be spent working a job to stay alive. 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:44.480 And from the government's perspective, the the motivation for creating 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.439 art can't be assumed any way. They can only protect 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.399 it in this way, right the only protected by saying 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.840 we'll make sure that if you register the stuff, we 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.280 will totally have your backs. If someone else steals it, 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.720 we got you. Yeah, yeah, you can go after them 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.960 and you can cite this and then that will be 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.320 your basis for your claim. Obviously, the government can't go 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.879 out and figure out all the actual internal motivations for 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:13.440 someone to engage in creating art. But um, the other 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.320 thing that it creates an incentive for with this fourteen 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:19.600 years and potential fourteen more for renewal. By the way, 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.320 a lot of copyright holders didn't bother with renewing their 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:27.000 copyright once it expired. The thought was that it also 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:32.399 could encourage these creators to continue creating because the amount 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.440 of time they could they could expect to earn money 0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.159 off of any given creation was limited. They couldn't, you know, 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.040 they couldn't hope to strike oil or strike gold or 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.520 however you want to think about it and create that peace. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:50.320 That gets so much a claim that that right. And 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:55.160 then from a cultural perspective, it means that we as 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.200 as people who consume this art and however we might 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:04.480 do so, would continue to benefit from the artist's talent 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.600 and creativity. So there's there's kind of a balance there. 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.359 There's a public good and there's also a protection for 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:15.400 the the author. So it's a balance that has been 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.920 very delicately managed and sometimes not so delicately managed because 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:22.200 as it turns out, there have been a lot of 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.399 changes to that original copyright. How long years? Okay, so 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:32.080 eight one there was a change in the law where 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.320 it was extended to twenty eight years of protection with 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.800 then the option for a fourteen year renewal or extension, 0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.600 and then in nineteen o nine that was extended to 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.840 twenty eight years of protection with a renewal of a 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.760 further twenty eight years. So, uh, you know, it's we're 0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.800 seeing it start to creep up. That lasted for a 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:58.560 really long time. That's essentially fifty six years of protection. Uh. Yeah. 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:05.240 There was a particular um iconic character protected by copyright 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:11.080 whose copyright would have expired in nineteen eighty three had 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:15.920 this stayed true, that character is Mickey Mouse. I was 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:17.840 about to say, are we about to talk about the 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.480 mouse we are specifically to be to be really specific, 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:24.560 the steamboat Willie version of Mickey Mouse, all right, that 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.399 would have entered public domain in three had nothing changed. 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:34.160 So there was some pressure, let's say, from various entities, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.320 Walt Disney Company not being leased among them, to extend 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:43.000 copyright protection beyond this because now we have corporations that 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.280 can own intellectual property. So we're no longer talking like 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.560 when we're talking about owners of intellectual property. It doesn't 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.720 have to be the author the you know, the outher 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.359 can sign over or sell intellectual property. You know it 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.200 can it can descend to one of their children, or 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.920 they can sell it to a corporation exactly. And corporation 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.840 is unlike people don't have a lifespan, like they can die, 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.920 but they don't die of old age. No, they die 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:11.320 like empires. Yeah, so there's no there's no point where 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:13.879 a corporation is just going to wither away due to 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:19.080 being too old. So they no, they don't. They can 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.359 get creaky, but it's a different thing. So because of that, 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.840 the corporations want to be able to ensure being able 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:30.280 to earn revenue off of their assets, which means they're 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.240 going to try to protect them. So in nineteen seventy 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.520 six we saw the greatest extension of the term of 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.520 copyright protection, which was the life of the author plus 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.320 fifty years on top of it, so you would never 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.359 be able to use the original work of an author 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.280 within that author's lifetime plus another fifty years. Works for 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.320 Higher had seventy five years of protection completely works for Higher. 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:57.119 That's where a corporation or other entity hires an an 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.200 artist or author to create something but belongs to that entity, 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:04.280