WEBVTT - #405 Jason Flom with Pierre Rushing 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.240 Our coverage of Pierre Rushing's case originally aired on July eighth, 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.240 twenty twenty. We will now re release that episode with 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:12.720 additional content to reflect some exciting new developments. In the 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.439 early morning of April fifteenth, twenty eleven, Duwan Taylor stole 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.599 an iPod for an Oakland drug dealer named c. Two 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.000 of his other customers, Patrick Smith and Robert green gave 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.239 Ce a ride in search of the iPod thief. They 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.360 spotted mister Taylor pulled up next to him, and See 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.840 proceeded to shoot and kill him Over this trivial slight. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.880 Nearly a week would go by before Robert Green would 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.080 offer cops information and an uncertain description of the shooter. 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.800 A few weeks and several descriptions later, Green would claim 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.720 to have seen s wearing a red hat. A few 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.040 days after that, police would approach Pierre Rushing, a man 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:51.600 who had never been known as SA but wearing a 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.640 red hat. They'd bring Pierre's juvie photo and his name 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.400 to Robert Green, who went on to identify him as 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:03.360 the shooter. Despite a solid alibi, no physical evidence whatsoever 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:09.160 or anything to corroborate Robert Greene's highly questionable identification. Pierre 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:13.560 Rushing's burgeoning rap career and promising future were stolen by 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:18.040 Green and the criminal legal system. He's currently serving fifty 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.880 to life for a frivolous and tragic crime committed by 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:24.440 a drug dealer need See. Patrick Smith has since signed 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.559 affidavits and testified to Pierre's innocence, and another of C's 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.880 customers that night has bravely set a legal name to 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.640 the culprit, and even though mister Rushing did not name See, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.360 we have censored his name from this episode for mister 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:42.959 Rushing's safety. Meanwhile, the state of California continues to ignore 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:47.080 evidence of Pierre's actual innocence and to fight his honest 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.600 attempts to regain his freedom. This is Wrongful Conviction with 0:01:51.720 --> 0:02:05.240 Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.800 That's me and today we're going to tell you about 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:10.760 the case of Pierre Rushing. We'll speak with one of 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:13.560 his post conviction attorneys, Marvin Lou as well as taking 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.720 a call from Kern Valley Correction in California to hear 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:20.359 from Pierre himself. This is Global's HELLNK. 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.200 You have a three post call from your version. 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.560 This call Angelo telephone number will be monitored and recruited 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:30.800 to accept this call soon or. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:36.360 Dial five now. Thank you for using Globaltalink. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:42.399 Hello, good morning, Good morning. I'm glad you're here. I mean, 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.040 I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but I'm definitely 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.560 glad you're here. I know we have limited times, so 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.720 let's get right into it. Today's episode, we're going to 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.480 tell the story of the man we have on the 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.520 phone now, Pierre Rushing, who's serving fifty years. The Nightmare 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.760 starts on April fifteen, twenty eleven, at three forty five 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.160 as when there's a murder. But let's go back to 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.160 your childhood, because you had a difficult upbringing and you 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.440 were coming out of that and building a career in 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:10.119 music when it all went haywire. 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.520 So I grew up in Oakland, California. My father was 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.560 a ascent fee in and out of prison. Smart was 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.240 a digit crack cocaine. So I don't want to say 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.800 like any other Oakland kid, but I mean a lot 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.160 of kids in the in the that grew up in 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.639 the nineties were just product of the our environment. We 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.520 grew up looking at things that we believed to be right, 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:32.200 so we as we mature, we get to see that 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:33.240 they were really wrong. 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:34.920 And how did you get into music? 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.480 My auntie used to work for She switt her name 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.280 with Tracy Rush, and she since passed in twenty thirteen. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.760 But just being around her, she took me in her wing, 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.280 just taking me to the studio or her as I 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.320 became addicted to you. 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.280 Is it fair to say by twenty eleven things were 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.520 starting to look up for you in terms of possibly 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:57.360 building a career. 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.080 And yeah, when I was arrested for this face, Actually 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.640 friends of mine has said that the police were looking 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.160 for me for this time, and we all laughed about 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.160 it because everybody knew that I couldn't have done. And 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.920 I have been wrapping and going to the studio, staying assistant, 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.440 shooting videos. And actually when I was arrested, I was 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:17.800 open up for Bay Area Ledge by the name of 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:22.839 surname Queen, and we had a big tour van with 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.800 my pictures on and promoting my music and everything. So, yeah, 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:28.120 it was coming up for me. 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.240 Yeah, you were on exactly, You're on your way up, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:38.520 and then everything went completely haywire. Now let's turn the 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:42.680 conversation to Marvin lou. Marvin is a criminal defense attorney 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:46.800 of some repute and he has been representing Pierre for 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.120 some time. Now, let's just paint a picture of what happened. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.799 The date was April fifteenth, twenty eleven, and what happened 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.880 was two individuals by the name of Patrick Smith and 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.760 Robert Green. We're doing crack cocaine or the day and 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.880 a half leading up to this young man's killing, and 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.440 Patrick Smith and Robert Green went to an apartment in 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:12.200 Oakland to purchase more crack cocaine. Patrick Smith was driving, 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.360 Robert Green stayed in the car while Patrick Smith went 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:19.760 up to the apartment to purchase more drugs. So Patrick 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.800 Smith meets up with his drug dealer. Patrick Smith knows 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.400 him as see the letter c who is the actual 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.120 person responsible for the murder of Dewane Taylor. While Patrick 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.760 Smith was in the apartment, there were several other people present, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.920 and mister Taylor left the apartment. Shortly after mister Taylor left, 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.400 then sees iPod turned up missing and someone in the 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:50.000 apartment said that mister Taylor had taken sees iPod. What 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:55.279 happened next was Patrick Smith the shooter Se and another 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.120 individual who was also charged as a co defendant named 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.320 Andre Morris. They all left the apartment and went and 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.800 got in Patrick Smith's car to go find mister Taylor, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:10.320 who had allegedly taken C's iPod. Robert Green was waiting 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.120 in the car, sitting in the front passenger seat. So 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.000 pat Smith drives around the corner. They see mister Taylor 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.320 walking down the street and See or Andre Morris. Pat 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.320 Smith wasn't sure which told him to stop the car. 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.880 C and Andre Morris got out of the car, confronted 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.760 mister Taylor, and Se shot and killed mister Taylor on 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:35.320 the sidewalk in front of a fast food restaurant. They 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.960 then got back into the car. Pat Smith drove a 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.599 short distance. Both See and mister Morris got out of 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.320 the car and ran away. So that's the factual backdrop 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:45.920 for this thing. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:49.200 Follow along here because Pierre, who were on the phone 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.800 with now had no connection to viction, no knowledge of 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:55.320 the actual perpetrator, and he was at his grandmother's at 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:58.359 the time with a young lady named Lauren Richardson. On 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.440 the time and date of the murder. Have you ever 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:02.920 had a nickname of C for it? 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.480 Never never, I've always went by the name of Stink 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.880 or people from my neighborhoods to call me peace, thank 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.720 being for my first name is Pierre. I have never 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:14.280 never went by the Namac. 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.560 So what happened? How did you end up getting wrong 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:19.520 for convicted here? 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.960 Well? One of the past is Robert Green. He goes 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:25.120 to the police ninety five days after he allegedly see 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.720 this crime, and he tells them that he's seen as 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.679 murdering a guy named see commissed this murder. He gives 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.880 the police multiple different descriptions. I believe his first description 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.440 is five a light skin, one hundred and twenty pounds. 0:07:37.480 --> 0:07:39.160 I haven't been one hundred and twenty pounds since I 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.680 was eighteen years old, let alone at nineteen years old, 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.440 and I'm not light skinned. The second time I believe 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.920 he sees the police, he switches it up again. So 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.320 allegedly he says he sees c on April thirties, which 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.240 would have been fifteen days after the crime, and he 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.720 went back to the police and say, you know what, 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.760 I lied again. I believe he was six foot two, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.920 brown skin, and they had on red shirt and a 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.400 red hat. I'm not sure what kind of lineup they 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:08.440 were showinging, but he still couldn't identify who they believed 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.320 to be seen. The police seen an area that he 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:15.800 said that he had seen seeing. I believe it was 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.880 May third, wearing a red hat, and they stopped me. 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:21.760 And when they stopped me, they said, what is your name? 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.080 I don't lie to the police. Year Russian is my name? 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:26.920 I say, hey, we're looking for a guy that beat 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.200 a guy up. I haven't beaten the guy up. And 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.280 then they leave when they take that name back to 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.920 I believe Robert Green, who was at the police station, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.560 and they show him the picture four days after he's 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.320 seen a guy with a red hat. He said, you 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.400 know what, he had asked me, I'm Bessie. And that's 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.160 how the whole way of his spawn them looking for 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.520 a guy would have red hat four days after Robert 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:48.679 grig because he's seen this guy and. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.920 A month after the crime. When they first questioned you, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.960 they wanted to know what you were doing on the 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.599 day of the crime. But when they were asking you 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.760 this question, it was already five weeks later, right, And 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.600 this is a trick that they you Sometimes you're like 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.560 you're supposed to remember exactly like, I don't ask anybody 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.080 in the audience right now what were you doing. Let's 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:10.000 go back thirty five days from whatever day you're listening 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.800 to this. Tell me right now what you were doing 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.040 at a particular time on that day, and I'll give 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.240 you a dollar. Because that's impossible, but it is very 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.600 effective because then they can say you lied, because there's 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.719 no way anyone could possibly remember that unless it was 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.960 their birthday or some other like really important day. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.840 Right April fifteenth, as you would have it, is my 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.640 father's birthday. So without me even thinking, you say April fifteen, Hey, 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:34.599 there's nothing I was with my dad. I seen my 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:39.120 dad on his birthday. Not one time at any trial transcript, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.680 police evidence Torty's Germany do they ever say where were 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.959 you three forty five a m. So if they say no, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.400 you weren't with your dad. I also remember that I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.800 had a traffic shot that day, and they win, chick. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:51.920 It showed that I was on the truth of the 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.880 say no not at that time. It took me, i 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.280 believe my attorney, for about a week of jog in 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.600 my memory to figure out where did I sleep at 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.840 three four forty five am That morning, and I've remembered 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:04.880 it was my grandma. So it was because my mom 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.080 came to me that morning and said, where are you 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.679 going to get your dad for his birthday? That's how 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.760 I was able to put the pieces and a pleazure together. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.120 But by that time it was trial, so they looked 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.800 at it as if, oh, this is a third alibi. Well, no, 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.040 I've given you everywhere I went from April fifteenth, and 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.480 so that's how they played it, which is very nefarious 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:27.559 because they see that I was trying to tell them 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:28.880 everything at. 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.600 The time that this crime was committed at three forty 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.959 five in the morning. Now we know what you were 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.840 doing when you were supposedly out shooting somebody who you 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.400 never knew and don't know and still don't know and 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:40.040 never will know. 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.320 Well, April fourteenth, I was shooting a video and if 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.040 you go on YouTube right now, the song was called 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.400 you Next, Thank take a Trip. Lauren Richardson was an 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:52.320 associate of the camera man helped shoot the video. She 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:58.840 was also my girlfriend April fourteenth, going in table fifteen, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.840 she came to my randma, talked roughly about nine fund 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.199 tenn'clock and we spent the night we enjoyed each other's company. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.960 We deal with any other boys from the girlfriend. 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:13.320 Hello. 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.959 My name is Lauren Richardson. I am an Oakland resident 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:22.080 and current legal apprentice. I entered the field with a 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.320 lot of motivation from the tragic situation that happened with 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:31.520 Pierre Rushing. I originally was into video. On April fourteenth, 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.680 Pierre went to shoot a video. It's called take a Trip. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.160 We were super excited because he has so much support 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.160 from our neighborhood. Everybody knew he was a great rapper, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.360 so when he finally shot the video, we were super excited. 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.079 We went back to his grandmother's house afterwards just to 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.600 kind of recap, and we stayed up all night watching movies, laughing, 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.760 making plans for the future. We you know, did what 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.040 couples do late night, and I left early in the 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.240 morning because I had to take my son to school. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.880 And it was some weeks after that he kind of disappeared, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.720 you know, when somebody else found me, it was like, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:09.520 you know. 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:10.839 He's in jail. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:11.960 I'm like what. 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.160 Because I was kind of mad, you know, I was. 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.920 I thought he ghosted me, to be honest, So it 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.480 was no way that he could have committed the crime. 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:29.320 I have never felt as powerless as I felt in 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:35.480 this situation to express reality and be believed, and you know, 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.000 this huge power structure for them to be able to 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.240 create a false reality, like even with the witness, the 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:45.320 witness is not a credible witness, nowhere near as credible 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.160 as I am. Because I'm not going to go perjure myself. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.600 I'm not going to risk my life to keep a 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.560 killer out of jail. So for me to go up 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.080 there in front of all of these people and for 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.600 them to not take my word for it when they 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:01.280 had no other evidence, it bothers me to this day. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.720 It's a big part of the motivation for me to 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.000 go into this apprenticeship program because I want to learn 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.000 how to speak up for other people who can't speak 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.560 up for themselves, because this has to stop. They ruined 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:14.560 an entire family. 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.040 The idea that we in this country can send somebody 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.839 like you, a promising young man with his life ahead 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.520 of him, to fifty years based on the testimony of 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:30.800 an admitted crackhead it was up for two days or 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.680 changed the story four times, really should make everybody a 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:38.240 little scared. YEERH, can you tell us a little bit 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.480 about the trial itself. The killing is on camera. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.400 When I heard they had it on camera, I'm starting 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.560 to kick my feet up and just wait for the 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.800 trial days because I'm like, if it's on camera, I'm 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.960 going on. I never in a million years imagined that 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:56.040 the camera would be low quality or you really can't 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.560 see anything on the camera. You see a vehicle pull 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.240 up and it's just green, so you can't release anything. 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.040 And I remember my heart just dropping because I knew 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:09.600 that that was what was supposed to exonerate music. They 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:14.440 had no evidence, no physical They have the murdered vehicle 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.760 with twelve fingerprints inside the car and say I got 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:19.400 inten out of that car four times. None of the 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.440 fingerprints mats made. One of the prosecution's witness was a 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.480 lady by the name of the Carli smith Orf. She 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.040 witnessed the crime her and pass men for best friends. 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.360 She had been in that car a week before. When 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.000 the police forensic pathologists became the call on Avery twenty second, 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.560 they tried to call his fingerprints in that car. Therefore, 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.760 when she testified she hadn't been in the car seven 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.280 days prior to the killing, that means that the car 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.400 couldn't have possibly been wiped down. And if the car 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.640 wasn't wiped down, and you found twelve to fourteenth fingerprints 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.000 in that car, and per Robert Green's testimony, I got 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:51.760 in and out of that car four times and I 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:53.880 killed this guy with no gloves. Why don't wear my 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:57.760 fingerprints on the car. Second, if Robert Greens took the leave, 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.560 why would you ever call me five days light skinned 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.160 one hundred and twenty pounds? Why would you ever change 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.200 it to five teens one hundred and sixty pounds? In 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.760 that preliminary hearing when the judge allowed me to leave 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.760 the court room, they brought Robert Breen in and they said, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.560 could you please describe to killer? This guy switched it 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.800 up to six to two hundred and twenty pounds. This 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.160 guy's not to be believed. He was addicted to cracking. 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.880 Heroon said he had been up for two days off cracking. Araon, 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.080 I had bitnessie seven time failings. Third, you have to 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:30.440 call a smith another prosecutions with us. I didn't see him. 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:31.480 I don't know who that is. 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.280 Well, yeah, I mean our standard in this country is 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.680 supposed to be reasonable doubt and this goes way beyond 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:38.560 that standard. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.640 I had hope that you know, I would be exaggerated. 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.840 And did you have proper representation? 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.320 Now, I went to a trial with a pub defender 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.800 and I went speedy trial. I was arrested in May, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.360 I was convicted and all of this, And the reason 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.200 I went speedy truck because I felt like I had 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.960 nothing to hide. I didn't do it, So why would 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.000 I wait? Where I see in my counting people weigh 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.200 four or five years to fight the case because they're 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.440 trying to wait for the better deal. The first day 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.760 a trial, I remember the judge saying something like, hey, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.520 I know the DA is going to give you a deal. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:09.640 She looked to your left, get a deal because I 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.360 know that he's going to give you one. And I 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.200 just remember shaking my head, no, no, no, because why 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.840 would I take time for something if I didn't do it. 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:19.480 They know I'm not seen, so they want to know 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:21.560 if what we call in the urban community, if I'm 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.360 going to snitch, I know a lot of seas. That's 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.680 that's the one for two. It's not my job to 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.480 do the police a job for them, you know, So 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.120 if I wasn't there, what do you expect me to 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:33.760 do or maybe it could have been this guy. Maybe 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.360 it could be this guy. If I do that, I'm 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:39.880 worse than Robert Green because you were not there and 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.560 they know that and they feed off that. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.160 Yeah, jailhouse snitches has just sort of become like standard 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:47.200 operating procedure. 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.120 Correct. It's a nightmare. It's a living nightmare. But that 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:51.640 was that was the summer of the. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.720 Tru Yeah, that is a nightmare scenario. So the jury 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.680 goes out when they came back in what was that 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.280 moment like when they actually found you guilty of a 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:02.320 crime you didn't commit. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:07.080 When they came back with it. It was weird because 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.480 the whole trial, I had twenty to thirty people every 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:16.240 single day of my trial, friends from the neighborhood, family, girlfriend, associates. 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.760 But on that day, nobody was in the courtroom, not 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.520 even the victim's family, nobody from my family. That was 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:26.879 just like a sense of loneliness, a sense of like 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.159 me against the world, because you're sitting here, convicted me 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.399 for a crime that I didn't commit, and I know 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.639 that you know I didn't commit this crime. And I 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:36.720 couldn't even look back to the look in the eyes 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.359 of my mother my father and my grandmother, and I 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.560 felt like that was already said for I'm like, why 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.439 wasn't even the victims family like where? It was just 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:47.800 a feeling that I never want to feel again. 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.080 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.920 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.720 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.440 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.280 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.200 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.399 the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:29.560 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Marvin, take it 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.560 back to how you first met Pierre or how you 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.960 first became aware of his case, and why you chose 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:36.840 to get involved in this case. You must get hit 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:37.960 with cases all the time. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.359 I actually came to represent Pierre after a different attorney, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.359 Stephen Bedrick, who was handling his direct appeal in state court, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.560 also filed the habeas corpus petition in the California State 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:51.320 Court of Appeal. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.200 What is the literal interpretation of habeas corpus. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.840 Habeas corpus means to produce the body in Latin, and 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.000 what that means is that it's an allegation by us 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:06.640 that Pierre is being unlawfully incarcerated. And once I dug 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.440 into the case and reviewed the evidence in Pierre's case 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.640 and did some investigation of my own, that very much 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:13.680 turned out to be true. 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:15.320 What went wrong here? 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.159 I think a number of things went wrong, but most critically, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.359 there was evidence which could have exonerated Pierre which was 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.639 not introduced. The only witness in the case, Robert Green, 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.320 testified that Pierre was supposedly the person who committed this crime. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.040 That is the only evidence in the case. And in 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.120 the trial against Pierre, that witness testified that the person 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.800 who committed this crime was talking on his cell phone 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.280 a mirror minutes before shooting the victim. In this case, 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.320 Pierre's phone records were available and that was part of 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.280 the habeas petition and got him a hearing subsequently, and 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:59.359 those phone records established conclusively that Pierre was not talking 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.719 on his cell pH at the time when the perpetrator was. 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.480 And if those records were introduced, I think that it 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.280 would be a pretty compelling piece of evidence to establish 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.959 that in fact, Pierre is not the person responsible for 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.920 this murder, But they weren't introduced, The jury never heard 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:17.280 of them. 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.439 What about the fingerprint stuff? How did they manage to 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:23.720 get around that? That seems like that could have been 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:26.920 enough on its own. How did he not leave his fingerprints? 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:28.240 Is he a ghost? Well? 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.520 The fingerprint evidence was introduced by way of a stipulation 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:36.320 or the evidence technician who actually gathered the latent fingerprints 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.520 from the car that was used in the homicide. That 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.760 witness did not testify. Rather, Pierre's trial attorney chose to 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.000 have that evidence admitted by way of an agreement with 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.960 the prosecutor simply the conclusion that Pierre's fingerprints were not 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.360 in fact recovered from that car, and had that witness 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:58.280 been called, it would have led to another important piece 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.600 which was not introduced and known to the jury. That 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:06.920 evidence technician also collected DNA from that car, swabbed all 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:11.440 of the areas of that car where the killer sat 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:16.199 just before the murder occurred. In addition, there was a 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:21.480