1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,240 Speaker 1: Our coverage of Pierre Rushing's case originally aired on July eighth, 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. We will now re release that episode with 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: additional content to reflect some exciting new developments. In the 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: early morning of April fifteenth, twenty eleven, Duwan Taylor stole 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: an iPod for an Oakland drug dealer named c. Two 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: of his other customers, Patrick Smith and Robert green gave 7 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: Ce a ride in search of the iPod thief. They 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: spotted mister Taylor pulled up next to him, and See 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 1: proceeded to shoot and kill him Over this trivial slight. 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: Nearly a week would go by before Robert Green would 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: offer cops information and an uncertain description of the shooter. 12 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: A few weeks and several descriptions later, Green would claim 13 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: to have seen s wearing a red hat. A few 14 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: days after that, police would approach Pierre Rushing, a man 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: who had never been known as SA but wearing a 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: red hat. They'd bring Pierre's juvie photo and his name 17 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: to Robert Green, who went on to identify him as 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: the shooter. Despite a solid alibi, no physical evidence whatsoever 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: or anything to corroborate Robert Greene's highly questionable identification. Pierre 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Rushing's burgeoning rap career and promising future were stolen by 21 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: Green and the criminal legal system. He's currently serving fifty 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: to life for a frivolous and tragic crime committed by 23 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: a drug dealer need See. Patrick Smith has since signed 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: affidavits and testified to Pierre's innocence, and another of C's 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: customers that night has bravely set a legal name to 26 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: the culprit, and even though mister Rushing did not name See, 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: we have censored his name from this episode for mister 28 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: Rushing's safety. Meanwhile, the state of California continues to ignore 29 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: evidence of Pierre's actual innocence and to fight his honest 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: attempts to regain his freedom. This is Wrongful Conviction with 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: Jason Flamm. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. 32 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: That's me and today we're going to tell you about 33 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: the case of Pierre Rushing. We'll speak with one of 34 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: his post conviction attorneys, Marvin Lou as well as taking 35 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: a call from Kern Valley Correction in California to hear 36 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: from Pierre himself. This is Global's HELLNK. 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: You have a three post call from your version. 38 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 3: This call Angelo telephone number will be monitored and recruited 39 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 3: to accept this call soon or. 40 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: Dial five now. Thank you for using Globaltalink. 41 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,399 Speaker 1: Hello, good morning, Good morning. I'm glad you're here. I mean, 42 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here under these circumstances, but I'm definitely 43 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: glad you're here. I know we have limited times, so 44 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: let's get right into it. Today's episode, we're going to 45 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: tell the story of the man we have on the 46 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: phone now, Pierre Rushing, who's serving fifty years. The Nightmare 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: starts on April fifteen, twenty eleven, at three forty five 48 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: as when there's a murder. But let's go back to 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: your childhood, because you had a difficult upbringing and you 50 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: were coming out of that and building a career in 51 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: music when it all went haywire. 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: So I grew up in Oakland, California. My father was 53 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: a ascent fee in and out of prison. Smart was 54 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: a digit crack cocaine. So I don't want to say 55 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: like any other Oakland kid, but I mean a lot 56 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: of kids in the in the that grew up in 57 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: the nineties were just product of the our environment. We 58 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: grew up looking at things that we believed to be right, 59 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: so we as we mature, we get to see that 60 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: they were really wrong. 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: And how did you get into music? 62 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 2: My auntie used to work for She switt her name 63 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: with Tracy Rush, and she since passed in twenty thirteen. 64 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: But just being around her, she took me in her wing, 65 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: just taking me to the studio or her as I 66 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: became addicted to you. 67 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: Is it fair to say by twenty eleven things were 68 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: starting to look up for you in terms of possibly 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: building a career. 70 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: And yeah, when I was arrested for this face, Actually 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: friends of mine has said that the police were looking 72 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: for me for this time, and we all laughed about 73 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: it because everybody knew that I couldn't have done. And 74 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: I have been wrapping and going to the studio, staying assistant, 75 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: shooting videos. And actually when I was arrested, I was 76 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 2: open up for Bay Area Ledge by the name of 77 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: surname Queen, and we had a big tour van with 78 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 2: my pictures on and promoting my music and everything. So, yeah, 79 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: it was coming up for me. 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you were on exactly, You're on your way up, 81 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: and then everything went completely haywire. Now let's turn the 82 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: conversation to Marvin lou. Marvin is a criminal defense attorney 83 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: of some repute and he has been representing Pierre for 84 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: some time. Now, let's just paint a picture of what happened. 85 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,799 Speaker 3: The date was April fifteenth, twenty eleven, and what happened 86 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: was two individuals by the name of Patrick Smith and 87 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: Robert Green. We're doing crack cocaine or the day and 88 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: a half leading up to this young man's killing, and 89 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: Patrick Smith and Robert Green went to an apartment in 90 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 3: Oakland to purchase more crack cocaine. Patrick Smith was driving, 91 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 3: Robert Green stayed in the car while Patrick Smith went 92 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 3: up to the apartment to purchase more drugs. So Patrick 93 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: Smith meets up with his drug dealer. Patrick Smith knows 94 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 3: him as see the letter c who is the actual 95 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: person responsible for the murder of Dewane Taylor. While Patrick 96 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 3: Smith was in the apartment, there were several other people present, 97 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 3: and mister Taylor left the apartment. Shortly after mister Taylor left, 98 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 3: then sees iPod turned up missing and someone in the 99 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 3: apartment said that mister Taylor had taken sees iPod. What 100 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 3: happened next was Patrick Smith the shooter Se and another 101 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 3: individual who was also charged as a co defendant named 102 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: Andre Morris. They all left the apartment and went and 103 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 3: got in Patrick Smith's car to go find mister Taylor, 104 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 3: who had allegedly taken C's iPod. Robert Green was waiting 105 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 3: in the car, sitting in the front passenger seat. So 106 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: pat Smith drives around the corner. They see mister Taylor 107 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: walking down the street and See or Andre Morris. Pat 108 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: Smith wasn't sure which told him to stop the car. 109 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: C and Andre Morris got out of the car, confronted 110 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: mister Taylor, and Se shot and killed mister Taylor on 111 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: the sidewalk in front of a fast food restaurant. They 112 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 3: then got back into the car. Pat Smith drove a 113 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 3: short distance. Both See and mister Morris got out of 114 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 3: the car and ran away. So that's the factual backdrop 115 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 3: for this thing. 116 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: Follow along here because Pierre, who were on the phone 117 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: with now had no connection to viction, no knowledge of 118 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: the actual perpetrator, and he was at his grandmother's at 119 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: the time with a young lady named Lauren Richardson. On 120 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: the time and date of the murder. Have you ever 121 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: had a nickname of C for it? 122 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 2: Never never, I've always went by the name of Stink 123 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: or people from my neighborhoods to call me peace, thank 124 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: being for my first name is Pierre. I have never 125 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: never went by the Namac. 126 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: So what happened? How did you end up getting wrong 127 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: for convicted here? 128 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: Well? One of the past is Robert Green. He goes 129 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: to the police ninety five days after he allegedly see 130 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 2: this crime, and he tells them that he's seen as 131 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 2: murdering a guy named see commissed this murder. He gives 132 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: the police multiple different descriptions. I believe his first description 133 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: is five a light skin, one hundred and twenty pounds. 134 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: I haven't been one hundred and twenty pounds since I 135 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: was eighteen years old, let alone at nineteen years old, 136 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 2: and I'm not light skinned. The second time I believe 137 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: he sees the police, he switches it up again. So 138 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: allegedly he says he sees c on April thirties, which 139 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: would have been fifteen days after the crime, and he 140 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: went back to the police and say, you know what, 141 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: I lied again. I believe he was six foot two, 142 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: brown skin, and they had on red shirt and a 143 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 2: red hat. I'm not sure what kind of lineup they 144 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: were showinging, but he still couldn't identify who they believed 145 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: to be seen. The police seen an area that he 146 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: said that he had seen seeing. I believe it was 147 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 2: May third, wearing a red hat, and they stopped me. 148 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: And when they stopped me, they said, what is your name? 149 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: I don't lie to the police. Year Russian is my name? 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: I say, hey, we're looking for a guy that beat 151 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: a guy up. I haven't beaten the guy up. And 152 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: then they leave when they take that name back to 153 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: I believe Robert Green, who was at the police station, 154 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 2: and they show him the picture four days after he's 155 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: seen a guy with a red hat. He said, you 156 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: know what, he had asked me, I'm Bessie. And that's 157 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: how the whole way of his spawn them looking for 158 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: a guy would have red hat four days after Robert 159 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 2: grig because he's seen this guy and. 160 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: A month after the crime. When they first questioned you, 161 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: they wanted to know what you were doing on the 162 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,599 Speaker 1: day of the crime. But when they were asking you 163 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: this question, it was already five weeks later, right, And 164 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: this is a trick that they you Sometimes you're like 165 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: you're supposed to remember exactly like, I don't ask anybody 166 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: in the audience right now what were you doing. Let's 167 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: go back thirty five days from whatever day you're listening 168 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: to this. Tell me right now what you were doing 169 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: at a particular time on that day, and I'll give 170 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: you a dollar. Because that's impossible, but it is very 171 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: effective because then they can say you lied, because there's 172 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 1: no way anyone could possibly remember that unless it was 173 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: their birthday or some other like really important day. 174 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 2: Right April fifteenth, as you would have it, is my 175 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: father's birthday. So without me even thinking, you say April fifteen, Hey, 176 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 2: there's nothing I was with my dad. I seen my 177 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 2: dad on his birthday. Not one time at any trial transcript, 178 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 2: police evidence Torty's Germany do they ever say where were 179 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: you three forty five a m. So if they say no, 180 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 2: you weren't with your dad. I also remember that I 181 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: had a traffic shot that day, and they win, chick. 182 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: It showed that I was on the truth of the 183 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 2: say no not at that time. It took me, i 184 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 2: believe my attorney, for about a week of jog in 185 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 2: my memory to figure out where did I sleep at 186 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: three four forty five am That morning, and I've remembered 187 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 2: it was my grandma. So it was because my mom 188 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 2: came to me that morning and said, where are you 189 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 2: going to get your dad for his birthday? That's how 190 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: I was able to put the pieces and a pleazure together. 191 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: But by that time it was trial, so they looked 192 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: at it as if, oh, this is a third alibi. Well, no, 193 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: I've given you everywhere I went from April fifteenth, and 194 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 2: so that's how they played it, which is very nefarious 195 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 2: because they see that I was trying to tell them 196 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: everything at. 197 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: The time that this crime was committed at three forty 198 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: five in the morning. Now we know what you were 199 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: doing when you were supposedly out shooting somebody who you 200 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: never knew and don't know and still don't know and 201 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: never will know. 202 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 2: Well, April fourteenth, I was shooting a video and if 203 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: you go on YouTube right now, the song was called 204 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: you Next, Thank take a Trip. Lauren Richardson was an 205 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 2: associate of the camera man helped shoot the video. She 206 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 2: was also my girlfriend April fourteenth, going in table fifteen, 207 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: she came to my randma, talked roughly about nine fund 208 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: tenn'clock and we spent the night we enjoyed each other's company. 209 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 2: We deal with any other boys from the girlfriend. 210 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 4: Hello. 211 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 5: My name is Lauren Richardson. I am an Oakland resident 212 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 5: and current legal apprentice. I entered the field with a 213 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 5: lot of motivation from the tragic situation that happened with 214 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 5: Pierre Rushing. I originally was into video. On April fourteenth, 215 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 5: Pierre went to shoot a video. It's called take a Trip. 216 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 5: We were super excited because he has so much support 217 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 5: from our neighborhood. Everybody knew he was a great rapper, 218 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 5: so when he finally shot the video, we were super excited. 219 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,079 Speaker 5: We went back to his grandmother's house afterwards just to 220 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 5: kind of recap, and we stayed up all night watching movies, laughing, 221 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 5: making plans for the future. We you know, did what 222 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 5: couples do late night, and I left early in the 223 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 5: morning because I had to take my son to school. 224 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: And it was some weeks after that he kind of disappeared, 225 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 5: you know, when somebody else found me, it was like, 226 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 5: you know. 227 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 3: He's in jail. 228 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 4: I'm like what. 229 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 5: Because I was kind of mad, you know, I was. 230 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 5: I thought he ghosted me, to be honest, So it 231 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 5: was no way that he could have committed the crime. 232 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 5: I have never felt as powerless as I felt in 233 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 5: this situation to express reality and be believed, and you know, 234 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 5: this huge power structure for them to be able to 235 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 5: create a false reality, like even with the witness, the 236 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 5: witness is not a credible witness, nowhere near as credible 237 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 5: as I am. Because I'm not going to go perjure myself. 238 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 5: I'm not going to risk my life to keep a 239 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 5: killer out of jail. So for me to go up 240 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 5: there in front of all of these people and for 241 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 5: them to not take my word for it when they 242 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 5: had no other evidence, it bothers me to this day. 243 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 5: It's a big part of the motivation for me to 244 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 5: go into this apprenticeship program because I want to learn 245 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 5: how to speak up for other people who can't speak 246 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 5: up for themselves, because this has to stop. They ruined 247 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 5: an entire family. 248 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: The idea that we in this country can send somebody 249 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: like you, a promising young man with his life ahead 250 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: of him, to fifty years based on the testimony of 251 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: an admitted crackhead it was up for two days or 252 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: changed the story four times, really should make everybody a 253 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: little scared. YEERH, can you tell us a little bit 254 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: about the trial itself. The killing is on camera. 255 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: When I heard they had it on camera, I'm starting 256 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: to kick my feet up and just wait for the 257 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: trial days because I'm like, if it's on camera, I'm 258 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: going on. I never in a million years imagined that 259 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 2: the camera would be low quality or you really can't 260 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 2: see anything on the camera. You see a vehicle pull 261 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: up and it's just green, so you can't release anything. 262 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: And I remember my heart just dropping because I knew 263 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: that that was what was supposed to exonerate music. They 264 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 2: had no evidence, no physical They have the murdered vehicle 265 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: with twelve fingerprints inside the car and say I got 266 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: inten out of that car four times. None of the 267 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: fingerprints mats made. One of the prosecution's witness was a 268 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: lady by the name of the Carli smith Orf. She 269 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: witnessed the crime her and pass men for best friends. 270 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: She had been in that car a week before. When 271 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: the police forensic pathologists became the call on Avery twenty second, 272 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 2: they tried to call his fingerprints in that car. Therefore, 273 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 2: when she testified she hadn't been in the car seven 274 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: days prior to the killing, that means that the car 275 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 2: couldn't have possibly been wiped down. And if the car 276 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: wasn't wiped down, and you found twelve to fourteenth fingerprints 277 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 2: in that car, and per Robert Green's testimony, I got 278 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: in and out of that car four times and I 279 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: killed this guy with no gloves. Why don't wear my 280 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: fingerprints on the car. Second, if Robert Greens took the leave, 281 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: why would you ever call me five days light skinned 282 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty pounds? Why would you ever change 283 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: it to five teens one hundred and sixty pounds? In 284 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: that preliminary hearing when the judge allowed me to leave 285 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 2: the court room, they brought Robert Breen in and they said, 286 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: could you please describe to killer? This guy switched it 287 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: up to six to two hundred and twenty pounds. This 288 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: guy's not to be believed. He was addicted to cracking. 289 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 2: Heroon said he had been up for two days off cracking. Araon, 290 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: I had bitnessie seven time failings. Third, you have to 291 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 2: call a smith another prosecutions with us. I didn't see him. 292 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 2: I don't know who that is. 293 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean our standard in this country is 294 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: supposed to be reasonable doubt and this goes way beyond 295 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: that standard. 296 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 2: I had hope that you know, I would be exaggerated. 297 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: And did you have proper representation? 298 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: Now, I went to a trial with a pub defender 299 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: and I went speedy trial. I was arrested in May, 300 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 2: I was convicted and all of this, And the reason 301 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 2: I went speedy truck because I felt like I had 302 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: nothing to hide. I didn't do it, So why would 303 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 2: I wait? Where I see in my counting people weigh 304 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: four or five years to fight the case because they're 305 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: trying to wait for the better deal. The first day 306 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: a trial, I remember the judge saying something like, hey, 307 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 2: I know the DA is going to give you a deal. 308 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 2: She looked to your left, get a deal because I 309 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: know that he's going to give you one. And I 310 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: just remember shaking my head, no, no, no, because why 311 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: would I take time for something if I didn't do it. 312 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 2: They know I'm not seen, so they want to know 313 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 2: if what we call in the urban community, if I'm 314 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: going to snitch, I know a lot of seas. That's 315 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: that's the one for two. It's not my job to 316 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: do the police a job for them, you know, So 317 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: if I wasn't there, what do you expect me to 318 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: do or maybe it could have been this guy. Maybe 319 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: it could be this guy. If I do that, I'm 320 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 2: worse than Robert Green because you were not there and 321 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: they know that and they feed off that. 322 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, jailhouse snitches has just sort of become like standard 323 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: operating procedure. 324 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: Correct. It's a nightmare. It's a living nightmare. But that 325 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: was that was the summer of the. 326 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: Tru Yeah, that is a nightmare scenario. So the jury 327 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: goes out when they came back in what was that 328 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: moment like when they actually found you guilty of a 329 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: crime you didn't commit. 330 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: When they came back with it. It was weird because 331 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: the whole trial, I had twenty to thirty people every 332 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: single day of my trial, friends from the neighborhood, family, girlfriend, associates. 333 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: But on that day, nobody was in the courtroom, not 334 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: even the victim's family, nobody from my family. That was 335 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: just like a sense of loneliness, a sense of like 336 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 2: me against the world, because you're sitting here, convicted me 337 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 2: for a crime that I didn't commit, and I know 338 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 2: that you know I didn't commit this crime. And I 339 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 2: couldn't even look back to the look in the eyes 340 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: of my mother my father and my grandmother, and I 341 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 2: felt like that was already said for I'm like, why 342 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: wasn't even the victims family like where? It was just 343 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: a feeling that I never want to feel again. 344 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 345 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 346 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 347 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light 348 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and 349 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform, 350 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and 351 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Marvin, take it 352 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: back to how you first met Pierre or how you 353 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: first became aware of his case, and why you chose 354 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: to get involved in this case. You must get hit 355 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: with cases all the time. 356 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 3: I actually came to represent Pierre after a different attorney, 357 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 3: Stephen Bedrick, who was handling his direct appeal in state court, 358 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: also filed the habeas corpus petition in the California State 359 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 3: Court of Appeal. 360 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: What is the literal interpretation of habeas corpus. 361 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 3: Habeas corpus means to produce the body in Latin, and 362 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: what that means is that it's an allegation by us 363 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 3: that Pierre is being unlawfully incarcerated. And once I dug 364 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 3: into the case and reviewed the evidence in Pierre's case 365 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 3: and did some investigation of my own, that very much 366 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 3: turned out to be true. 367 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: What went wrong here? 368 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 3: I think a number of things went wrong, but most critically, 369 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 3: there was evidence which could have exonerated Pierre which was 370 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 3: not introduced. The only witness in the case, Robert Green, 371 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 3: testified that Pierre was supposedly the person who committed this crime. 372 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 3: That is the only evidence in the case. And in 373 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 3: the trial against Pierre, that witness testified that the person 374 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: who committed this crime was talking on his cell phone 375 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 3: a mirror minutes before shooting the victim. In this case, 376 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 3: Pierre's phone records were available and that was part of 377 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: the habeas petition and got him a hearing subsequently, and 378 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 3: those phone records established conclusively that Pierre was not talking 379 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 3: on his cell pH at the time when the perpetrator was. 380 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 3: And if those records were introduced, I think that it 381 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: would be a pretty compelling piece of evidence to establish 382 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 3: that in fact, Pierre is not the person responsible for 383 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 3: this murder, But they weren't introduced, The jury never heard 384 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 3: of them. 385 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: What about the fingerprint stuff? How did they manage to 386 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: get around that? That seems like that could have been 387 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: enough on its own. How did he not leave his fingerprints? 388 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: Is he a ghost? Well? 389 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 3: The fingerprint evidence was introduced by way of a stipulation 390 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: or the evidence technician who actually gathered the latent fingerprints 391 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 3: from the car that was used in the homicide. That 392 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 3: witness did not testify. Rather, Pierre's trial attorney chose to 393 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: have that evidence admitted by way of an agreement with 394 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 3: the prosecutor simply the conclusion that Pierre's fingerprints were not 395 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 3: in fact recovered from that car, and had that witness 396 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 3: been called, it would have led to another important piece 397 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 3: which was not introduced and known to the jury. That 398 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 3: evidence technician also collected DNA from that car, swabbed all 399 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 3: of the areas of that car where the killer sat 400 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,199 Speaker 3: just before the murder occurred. In addition, there was a 401 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 3: cigarette but that was recovered from the floorboard of that car, 402 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: which was also swabbed for DNA. That DNA evidence was 403 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 3: not tested in time for Pierre's trial, and that was 404 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 3: also the subject of his subsequent Avias petition. So what 405 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: happened was after we obtained an evidentiary hearing in state 406 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 3: court to attempt to prove Pierre's innocence. As I started 407 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 3: reviewing the case materials, I realized that this DNA evidence 408 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 3: existed which would completely exonerate him, and no one had 409 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 3: tested it. So there's a procedure under California law that 410 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: allows the convicted individual to ask the court to now 411 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 3: have that evidence tested because it would prove that he's innocent. 412 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: The government opposed our efforts to have that evidence tested, 413 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 3: and ultimately the judge in this case refused to allow 414 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: us to test that evidence. I then appealed that refusal, 415 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: and the Court of Appeal refused to allow us to 416 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 3: test that evidence. Why is it that they wouldn't want 417 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: to have the DNA evidence in the case tested if 418 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: they're so confident that, in fact, he's the perpetrator. 419 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: I never can understand in any case, especially in a 420 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: case as serious as this one, a murder case, why 421 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: they wouldn't want to have every stone turned over and 422 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: have every piece of evidence tested so that they can 423 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: find out not only that in this case, Pierre didn't 424 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: do it, but they can find out who actually did. Marvin, 425 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 1: Yolanda Washington, and Patrick Smith are pivotal players in this 426 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: whole wrongful conviction. Can you explain their role in what 427 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: went wrong here? Sure? 428 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 3: Of course, Pat Smith was a charged co defendant in 429 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: the case at the time of Pierre's trial, so he 430 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 3: did not testify at the trial. He had his fifth 431 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 3: Amendment right. But after Pierre's trial was long over and 432 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 3: after Patrick Smith resolved his part of the case for 433 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 3: accessory after the fact, he then signed an affidavid which 434 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 3: helped Pierre get an evidentiary hearing. He indicated both in 435 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: his affidavit as well as in his testimony at the 436 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: evidentiary hearing that his drug dealer is a man who 437 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: goes by the name of c and that individual was 438 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 3: not Pierre Rushing. Pat Smith at the hearing refused to 439 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 3: name that individual because he was afraid for his life. 440 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 3: But one of the people who was in that apartment 441 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 3: was a woman by the name of Yolanda Washington, and 442 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 3: she also did not testify a trial, but after Pierre 443 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 3: was convicted, she signed an affidavid under penalty of perjury, 444 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 3: indicating that she, of course, having been in that apartment, 445 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 3: knew who C was. She obviously knew who Andre Morris was. 446 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 3: And what she said in her affid David was that 447 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 3: Pierre Rushing is not the drug dealer who shot and 448 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: killed mister Taylor. Pierre Rushing is not C. But that's 449 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: not all. Indeed, Yolanda Washington went so far as to 450 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 3: identify who that person was. Now, before we get into this, 451 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: let me make one thing clear, which is that Pierre 452 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: does not know the identity of the perpetrator of this homicide. 453 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 3: Yolanda Washington, in her affid David did name that individual 454 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 3: who goes by the nickname C. In fact, his first 455 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 3: name is his name is and of course it would 456 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 3: make perfect sense that he would go by the nickname 457 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 3: C because his name is Pierre Rushing, does not have 458 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 3: a sea in his name, and she has never been 459 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: Pierre's nickname. Because Pierre is not the person responsible for 460 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 3: this killing. That affidavit was part of what enabled Pierre 461 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 3: to get a hearing in superior court. Unfortunately, Miss Washington 462 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: was a homeless individual at that time, and my investigator 463 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 3: was essentially unable to locate her to get her to 464 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 3: testify in court. So I filed a motion essentially asking 465 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 3: that her affidavit be considered because she was unavailable, and 466 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 3: that request was denied. 467 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: Wow, it's pretty courageous, even after the fact that these 468 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: two people both were willing to put their own lives 469 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: at risk to identify someone who they know is a killer. 470 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: And I think that speaks volumes to the veracity of 471 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 1: their statements. 472 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: For me, And I don't mean to say it like 473 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: it's because of the social climate that we have one 474 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 2: on the United station right now. But growing up, I've 475 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: always thoughts us because I grew up in an agent 476 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 2: of police. But I just watch how they need those 477 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 2: that look likely here at these we're talking about a 478 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: guy give a description on April thirty of a red hat, 479 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 2: and you see me on the DR say, well, hey, 480 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: that's a guy wearing a red hat. Let me stop him. 481 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 2: And now my whole life is spending in a spider 482 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 2: with not a thread of physical evidence links me to 483 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: this crime. And if it could happen to me, it 484 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 2: can't happen to anybody. 485 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. I mean, 486 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: we you know, every day there's more information coming out, 487 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: and I'm grateful that the public is starting to have 488 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: really heightened awareness to the fact that black people, it's 489 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: just put it right out there, are so much more 490 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: likely to be victimized by not just police brutality, but 491 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: by wrongful convictions, by wrongful prosecutions, being forced into taking 492 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,440 Speaker 1: plea bargains to things they didn't do. The whole system 493 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: is stacked. Wrongful convictions, though, do happen to people from 494 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,200 Speaker 1: all races all that. Now, these all different creeds, all 495 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: different religions. I mean, we've had people on the show 496 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: from every walk of life. 497 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you can take the case of Mayan Ferguson 498 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: in a two thousand and one Columbus, Missouri killing. He 499 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 2: was wrongfully convicted and he's a white man, you know 500 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: what I mean. Like, wrathful convictions don't have a skin color. 501 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 2: I mean, it's usually what I'm going through. I witness misidentifications, 502 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: i'm valid, forensic science, false confiicients, you know, police or 503 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: prosecutor misconduct. This is a slew of things on why 504 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 2: wrathful convictions happened. 505 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: Then there's just laziness too. It's like, oh, we got 506 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 1: a guy with a red hat good enough, you know 507 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: what I mean? Yeah, yeah, But the idea that the 508 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: justice system at every level, now we see it on 509 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: video of how the system treats people like yourself, like 510 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: George Floyd, like so many others, as expendable, disposable, and 511 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: yet I mean, there are very very real consequences. That's 512 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: why we're on the phone with you from prison now, 513 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: or you and I might be working together on a 514 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: record instead of. 515 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: I'm innocent. If you have any doubt in my innocence, 516 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 2: I would actually just think on these key points, what 517 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: guilty person would push for DNA testing of the materials 518 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 2: that were sought out the vehicle if I wasn't innocent, 519 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 2: What guilty man would push for the enhancement of the 520 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 2: video if I wasn't innocent, Or man, I'm gonna push 521 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: for the phone records. I'm minister, I didn't commit this crime. 522 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: I have nothing to do with this. 523 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: Crime, Pierre. Last time we spoke Dawan Taylor's actual murderer, 524 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: the guy known as Sea now his co conspirator Andre Marris, 525 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: as well as an accessory after the fact, Patrick Smith, 526 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: they had both come forward to definitively state that you 527 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: had absolutely nothing to do with the ones murder and 528 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: are not in fact C, that's not you. You and 529 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: C are different people, but for their own safety understandably 530 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: they would not name C. However, a woman named Yolanda Washington, 531 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: who was prepared to do just that, she couldn't be 532 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: located for your evidentiary hearing. And then Smith and Morris 533 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: were just explained away. And additionally, your request for DNA 534 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: testing against items from the car was denied. And you're right, 535 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: why would a guilty person, what guilty person would be 536 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: seeking DNA testing on items that might contain their own DNA? 537 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 1: What do you want to cebmit your own guilt if 538 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: you were doing that, if you actually had a guilty conscience, 539 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: Or why would they try to enhance crime scene video 540 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: if they knew it was going to point to their guilt. 541 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: All of this in addition to how flimsy the state's 542 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: evidence was to begin with the sole witness I'm talking 543 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: about Robert Green, of course, the sole witness who cooperated 544 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: with police to avoid being charged as well, whose description 545 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: of C changed three count up three times, and one 546 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: of those times Green said that she had worn a 547 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: red hat. Again, Robert Green, Newcy knew just how dangerous 548 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: he really was, yet he felt quite comfortable identifying you, Pierre, 549 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: after you were picked up while wearing a red hat. 550 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 6: Keep in mind they stopped me two days after that 551 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 6: description was given, so I guess this quote unquote killer 552 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 6: was supposed to have been wearing the same clothes and 553 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 6: hat for two days straight. I mean, like it was 554 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 6: bananas from the beginning. I've never fitted description of being 555 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 6: five to eight light skinned. I've never rocked the ball. 556 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 6: It haven't been one hundred and twenty pounds since I 557 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 6: was ten years old. 558 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 4: I mean, it just has been bananas from the game. 559 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 6: Nobody can convince me that he thought I was ever 560 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 6: the guy in the car. 561 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: With him, because you weren't. What you were was you 562 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: were with Lauren that night at your grandmother's house, and 563 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: her testimony was corroborated by the absence of your fingerprints 564 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: in the vehicle. Since your episode aired in your case 565 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: was picked up from Marvin lou pro bono, by the way, 566 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: by one of the biggest and baddest law firms in 567 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: the country, Greenberg Trauick, and one of their star attorneys, 568 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: Jordan Gratzinger, has been hard at work. I mean that's 569 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: an understatement. 570 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, he's a beast. We have a great investigator by 571 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 6: the name of Grant Fine overturning all the stones in 572 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 6: the case, getting half a Davis that wasn't gotten before, 573 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 6: talking to witnesses that hadn't spoken before, and tracked Robert 574 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 6: Green down. I was sitting here on my bunk and 575 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 6: Jordan Grassinger he sent me a message and he just 576 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 6: was saying Robert green every candidate and I had to 577 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 6: look at the message twice take. 578 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 4: It all in, and I was like, damn, Like I 579 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 4: thought it was. 580 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 6: Like some kind of like April Fool's joke or something, 581 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 6: and I just immediately dropped his tears. So from what 582 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 6: I've been told, it was just like you know, weighing 583 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 6: on his soul. He finally did the right thing, would 584 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 6: just tell the truth. I mean, I've gotten with anybody 585 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 6: in my position of fighting Roun Forkovision as asked for 586 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 6: the one and only witness has fully recanted. 587 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: So I'm both well, very happy for you, but also 588 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: i gotta admit I'm confused. Why am I? Why are 589 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: we talking to you over a prison phone. It seems 590 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: like that should have been it should have resolved the case, 591 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: you should have walked out the door. And now there's 592 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: actually literally zero evidence against you. So where does that 593 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: leave your case. 594 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 6: We're in court and we're trying to get this case dismissed. 595 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 6: Speaking with a progressive da by the name of Pamela Price, 596 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 6: and she has eyes on it. I don't have the 597 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 6: declaration in front of me, but Robert Green says he 598 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 6: knew the whole time that it wasn't me, and it 599 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 6: just gave validation and what I've been saying the whole 600 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 6: time that I didn't commit this crime and there was 601 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 6: no way that I would have or could have committed 602 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 6: this crime. As well as one of the guys that 603 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 6: were actually convicted after me, Andre Morris, he did a 604 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 6: written declaration and said that he was a participant in 605 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 6: the killing and that I wasn't with him. 606 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 4: That was that. So we're just waiting in praying for 607 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 4: good news very soon. 608 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: Well, let's hope that Pamela Price doesn't just put on 609 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: the progressive sort of bona fides at election time, right, 610 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: but that she takes this case as what it is, 611 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: which is an example of why we need prosecutors with 612 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: the brains and the heart that we know she possesses. 613 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: And by the way, it shouldn't take a reform minded 614 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: prosecutor when we're dealing with actual innocence. Every prosecutor should 615 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: want to get the innocent guy out and go after 616 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: the person that actually did it. And this is a 617 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: guy whose name we know and we know they know, 618 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: So what is the hold up? 619 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 4: I believe Pamela Price is under a lot of scrutiny. 620 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 6: She's cleaning up Alameda County, and she's being took to 621 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 6: town by some as being too soft on crime. And 622 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 6: really there's all type of guys walking around here in 623 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 6: three strikes and weed and all type of just craziness. 624 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 6: She's by the book, and by her being by the 625 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 6: books making her seem as if she's soft on krime 626 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 6: if you don't have enough evidence to convict beyond a 627 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 6: reasonable doubt, she's not taking it into some that seems 628 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 6: if she's soft on krin In my instance, as far 629 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 6: as my habeas petition, I haven't heard from him uch 630 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,439 Speaker 6: Price and Jordan hasn't either. 631 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 4: She's aware of the situation. 632 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 6: She's aware of the Joe Rogan podcast, She's aware of 633 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 6: the Wrong for Provision podcast. She's aware of the Breakfast 634 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 6: Club interview, and she still hasn't responded to Jordan Grassinger, 635 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 6: and she's supposed to file some kind of rebuttal to 636 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 6: my release. I'm not sure where we're at. We're close 637 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 6: to justice, but I still feel like they're trying to 638 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 6: hold on to something that they know is wrong, because 639 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 6: why are they not talking to us? Why are they 640 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 6: following the rebubdle? What are you rebudding? You have every 641 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 6: single person that was in the vehicle except to kill 642 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 6: her yourself, that has done sworn declarations and given testimony 643 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 6: that I did not comment the crime. Everybody has said 644 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 6: wrong guy. There is no physical or tangible or corrob 645 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 6: rating evidence that goes with this case. 646 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 4: What are you rebudding? 647 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: I don't get it either. I mean, are they going 648 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: to say we don't find Robert Green's recantation credible? And 649 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: if so, was he then credible before when he was 650 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: facing accessory after the fact doing all kinds of drugs. 651 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: And don't forget he changed the description of c three times, 652 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 1: a guy who he knew to be capable of murder, 653 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: yet he was brave enough to identify you, a man 654 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: who did not fit any one of his multiple descriptions. 655 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's hard not to think that maybe he 656 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: thought that you were the type of guy who wouldn't 657 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: come after him, which leads us to believe that you 658 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: were not a dangerous guy in the first place, never were, 659 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: and never will be. I mean, this conviction happened well 660 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: over a decade before Pam Price was elected. She could 661 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: fix this. It wouldn't reflect badly on her or her office, 662 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: because after all, it was one of her predecessors that 663 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: made these mistakes. 664 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 6: It was a lady but the name of Nancy O'Malley, 665 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 6: So I understand she has a lot to go on. 666 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 6: It's like Jordan says, there is no case in Alameda 667 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 6: County that is as compelling in an innocence claim as mine. 668 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: So is there anything our audience can do to help? 669 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: Is there a petition to sign? At a very minimum, I. 670 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 6: Think we're past signing a petition. I believe that we 671 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 6: have to do as Heep Newton said. We have to agitate, 672 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 6: we have to call, we have to email, we have 673 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 6: to show up unannounced to the DA's office. Some might 674 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 6: say that's hurtful. Sitting in jail for twelve years with 675 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 6: a fifty to life sentence is hurtful. Dwan Taylor's family 676 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 6: deserves justice like this is not justice, So I would 677 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 6: ask that they call Family Prices office and ask for 678 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 6: justice for Pierre Russian. 679 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: All right, this is all hands on deck, people. We 680 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: can we can do this. We put out the original 681 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: coverage three and a half bucking years ago. All right, 682 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: So we're gonna post her office's number, her email, her 683 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: snail mail address, all of it in the bio, and remember, 684 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: be respectful when you call. Doesn't help anyone in or 685 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: does she deserve Everyone deserves to be treated with respect 686 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: in that office. Whoever answers the phone, So please keep 687 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: that in mind, but do call, write, email, whatever. And 688 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: with that we're going to move on to closing arguments, 689 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: where I think you Pierre for calling in once again. 690 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 1: You know you're in our thoughts here at rofuel conviction 691 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: more often than you know. And now I'm just gonna 692 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: sit back and listen to anything else you want to say. 693 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 4: I would just like to speak directly to her. Yeah, 694 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 4: go for it, Pamela Price. 695 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 6: Robert Green get his declaration in February when he lied 696 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 6: on me, they inastially put a warrant out the same day. 697 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 6: That's tooking longer to exonerate me than it took to 698 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 6: convict me. 699 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 4: There's no evidence in this case. 700 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 6: Rely on your common sense, Rely on your your expertise 701 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 6: and the Civil Rights Arena. Rely on your intelligence. I 702 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 6: didn't commit this crime. You know I didn't commit this crime. 703 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 6: Every milli second that passes by is an injustice. I 704 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 6: could be your son, I could be your little brother. 705 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 6: I could be your I do not deserve to continue 706 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 6: to sit here while you and your office place politics. 707 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 6: I have a family to get to. My little sister 708 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 6: was murdered in twenty eighteen. My niece has no mother, 709 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 6: she has no father. She needs My family needs me. 710 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 6: My mother needs me, my father needs me. The community 711 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 6: needs me. I have a story. I can stop a 712 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,280 Speaker 6: lot with my story. I'm asking you to please step 713 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 6: up and do the right thing. Give Jordan Grassen your 714 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 6: a call, and please do the right thing. 715 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 716 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 717 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: week early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 718 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, Cutter 719 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 1: Hall and Kathleen Fake, as well as my fellow executive 720 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: producers Jeff Kepler, Kevin Warnis, and Jeff Cliber. The music 721 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 722 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us across all 723 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. 724 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: You can also follow me on Instagram at it's Jason Vlaum. 725 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcasts 726 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number one