WEBVTT - Weirdhouse Cinema: The Hidden (1987) 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.519 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.960 Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:17.959 This is Rob Lamb and this is Joe McCormick. And 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.160 today on Weird House we're going to be talking about 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:24.919 the nineteen eighty seven cult sci fi action film The Hidden, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:29.920 directed by Jack Shoulder, starring Kyle McLaughlin, Michael Neori, and 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:35.720 Claudia Christian. Big spoiler warning at the top of today's episode. 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:37.800 As always, we're going to be talking about the plot 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.239 of the movie in a lot of detail, and this 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:46.760 movie today contains major twists and surprises which are pretty 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.760 bizarre and I would argue quite pleasing to follow if 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:54.760 you go in cold. So this is one where you 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.040 really might want to think about watching the movie without 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.440 listening any further. I will give a warning the top 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:04.920 that The Hidden is incredibly violent, like tons of on 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.160 screen murder and blood squibs, almost non stop gunfire. But 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.480 if you have the stomach for that sort of thing, 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.120 if you know you can be into like eighties R 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.640 rated cop movies that have that kind of violence, And 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:22.000 if you want something that is I would say one 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.399 part like hardcore eighties cop movie with ultra violence and 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.160 all the cop cliches just kind of you know, meat 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.680 loaf mouth ribbing of cops going at each other, and 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:37.959 then another part absolutely wacky. I really would recommend watching 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.520 this movie without reading or listening to anything else. 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:42.960 Yeah, just know that it's the sort of cop movie, 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.360 an LA cop movie from the eighties that we would 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:47.880 cover on Weird House Cinema. And then you're good to go. 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.840 And if you're wondering where you can find it, well, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.280 this one's pretty widely available to stream. I watched it 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.720 on the Warner Brothers Blu ray, which is a rather 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.680 nice little package. It features a director's commentary track plus 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.000 a special effects feature. I rendered this one from Atlanta's 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:04.800 own video dro. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.080 Yeah, so if you want to pause the episode, go 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:16.880 watch the hidden and then come back. Here is your chance. So, 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.200 now that we're done with the warning, we can go 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.280 on with the description and talk about how for the 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.160 first ten minutes or so of this movie it seems 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.120 like it's gonna be a routine cop movie. It just 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.480 starts off with like a violent bank robbery and then 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.760 a car chase, a bunch of shooting and explosions, and 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.560 then suddenly I think it's about thirteen minutes into the 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:44.040 movie you get this hard shift into sci fi horror 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:49.840 when a spree killer and just general crime maniac languishing 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.840 in a hospital bed after the opening action scene, suddenly 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.960 barfs up a black slug from outer space into the 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.440 mouth of another page in the hospital, transferring the real 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.680 thrill killer of the movie, which is an alien parasite, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:11.000 into a new human host so that he can continue 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.360 he can escape the hospital and continue his rampage. And 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.760 then so that's the villain of the movie. And then 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.239 Michael Newry and Kyle McLaughlin will spind the rest of 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.200 the film chasing this alien slug psycho as it hops 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.360 from body to body, committing random acts of violence, also 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:32.520 acts of theft and gluttony. It's just generally a creature 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:36.200 of desires, and it's going around always looking for a 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.360 new sports car to steal, and they're going to be 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:41.560 chasing it the whole time. And then we may have 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:45.200 more secrets to learn beyond that initial reveal as well. 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.600 That's right, we won't spoil all the spoilers during this portion. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.839 We'll get into some of them during the plot. But yeah, 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.960 i'd say this particular cocktail of a film is roughly 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.080 two parts. Even nineteen eighty five's To Live and Die 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.280 in La so strong elements of that, you know, like 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:07.880 the hard, you know, gritty contemporary crime saga told from 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:11.240 the standpoint of you know, mostly police characters. But then 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:13.440 there is there's a little bit of Terminator in there. 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.320 There's also, as we've already alluded to, a strong dash 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:21.240 of alien parasite films, bringing to mind things like seventy 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:25.040 five Shivers or of course, the various adaptations of The 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.159 Puppet Masters, in which there's some sort of indo parasite 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:30.799 that controls the body. 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:37.120 Was The Puppet Masters an uncredited inspiration on the movie 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.400 we covered from the fifties called The Brain Eaters. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.440 I believe it was, Yes, yeah, this will quote. Yeah. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.880 The whole idea of like a parasite controlling you, of course, 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.800 is gonna it's gonna fit very snugly in sort of 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.480 the Macarthy era, you know, Blacklist era of Hollywood, when 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:54.960 there's the you know, the fear of like some sort 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.560 of communist parasite from outside is going to you know, 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.960 change your romance, tick partner or your best friend into 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.400 a communist. That sort of Thing. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.599 Maybe we should actually take a minute here to talk 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:11.600 about the body hopping scenario in sci fi and horror movies, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:16.480 because you're right that that scenario is similar to other 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:20.560 types of subgenres, like you know, replication like you would 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.040 see in The Thing, or you know, an invasion of 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:27.040 the body snatchers, but this is a little bit different 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:32.200 in that it involves possession of the original bodies. So 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.440 these are movies where the villain is some kind of 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:40.080 alien or monster or demon that can take control of 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.360 the bodies of human beings and then goes about hopping 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:46.719 from one victim to the next, using the human disguise 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:48.040 to its advantage. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.680 And it is a specific entity. And that's I think 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.039 another thing that sets it apart from some of the 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.480 other films I was trying to I was trying to 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.240 think of other films that fit this category, and like, 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:00.839 if it's a situation where a like demon in general 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.240 are possessing people left and right, well that's that's not 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.800 really That only match up with the Hidden It has 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.680 to be a film in which there is a single demon, 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:10.479 So not a demon that is Legion, but just a 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:11.520 demon named Legion. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.719 Yeah, Okay, Well I was trying to think of examples, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.640 and I thought of a few. There's a movie I 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.120 actually have never seen in full. It's one of those 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.280 I saw like half of on TV years and years ago, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:26.080 but Fallen from nineteen ninety eight with Denzel Washington and 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.840 John Goodman. I know it's a demon movie. In this case, 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.720 it's a demon possessing human victims. I don't know what 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:36.359 the demon's goal is in that movie. I think, is 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.280 it just trying to take over the world or something? 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:41.560 You know. I think I watched parts of this. I 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.840 had it like on in the room in the dorm 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.000 room when in college at some point, but I was 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:47.840 like doing something else, I was studying or something. I 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:52.640 don't know, but I think this film obviously you have 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.800 some great actors in this. But one of the things 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.400 about a body hopping film, as we're describing it now 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.000 is in general, you're talking about a film where you 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:05.760 don't have a single enigmatic bad guy player. You're gonna 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.599 have to have multiple people play the bad guy, to 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.360 be the sleeve for the bad guy, to be the 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.200 body for the bad guy, and that could be anti 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.680 climactic in some cases. I think this film does it 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.600 really well. And we'll discuss all the ways that it 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:20.960 does such a good job with it. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.840 You mean this film The Hidden or this film Fallen 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:24.800 the Hidden? 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.080 Yeah, my memory of Fallen is too vague to remember 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.480 how well they played it. Like, I think John Goodman 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.440 ends up being possessed at some point, and if so, 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.120 I'm willing to guess that plays really well because John 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:36.080 Goodman is a great actor. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.680 He can do he can do lovable and hateable and 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:41.200 does both in the same movie sometimes. Yeah. Ever seen 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.120 Barton Fink? I mean yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's great 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.680 in that. But yeah, it does does both there. But 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.720 and so there's another body hopping movie that came to 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.040 mind for me. Rob. Have you seen Shocker the West? 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:55.440 I've never seen Shocker? No, I know this is This 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:57.280 is one of your faves. I've heard you talk about 0:07:57.320 --> 0:07:58.119 it multiple times. 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.520 We're gonna have to do Shocker on Weird House one day, 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.920 and we may also have to review the old segment 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:08.320 from the Ciskel and Ebert TV show where Gene Siskel 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.280 is just trying to explain why he thinks Shocker is 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:15.520 a great movie, Like he's got words seem to be 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:19.600 failing him. But so the premise of this movie is 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.360 You've got a serial killer played by Mitch Poleggi his 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.760 Skinner from the X Files. And this serial killer works 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.239 a day job as a TV repair man, and when 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:33.840 he so, he gets caught for his crimes and they're 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.319 preparing to execute him in the electric chair, but before 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.840 that happens, he does some kind of satanic ritual involving 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.959 a TV and jumper cables, which transforms him into an 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:49.160 electricity ghost who can travel through power lines and come 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.160 out of electrical sockets, come out of TV screens, and 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.959 he can also possess human beings, so he jumps into 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:58.640 people takes control of their bodies. A motive of the 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.800 body hopper in this movie seems to be it's mostly revenge, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.600 like he wants revenge against the protagonist of the movie, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.960 who is a high school football player who happens to 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.920 be psychic played by Peter Berg. This character helped catch 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.480 the killer in the first place, and I think also 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.360 he just wants to keep on doing crimes and he's 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.360 going to do them in Electricity Ghost Slash, possessing human 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.319 bodies for him. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.520 Yeah. I never saw this one, but I do remember 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.720 the trailers for it. I saw the trailers for it 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.559 when you know, as a child, I just believed everything 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.280 that the trailers were throwing at me. I thought this guy, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.720 the main character, was going to be the next Ready Krueger. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.800 I don't remember if they actually made that promise, but 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.199 they probably heavily hyped from the creator of a Nightmare 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:44.520 on Elm Street, and I was like, Oh, this is 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.199 going to be the next big franchise. 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.120 Well, yeah, I think that's what they were going for, 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:54.240 because he's already late sequel Freddie in terms of he's 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.319 doing a lot of he makes like jokes, he has 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:03.120 one liners. He's like a wise, cracking, sinister kind of villain. Yeah, yeah, 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:08.040 not soft spoken. Another one actually to complete the You know, 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.520 so you got the Freddy analog on one side the 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.640 Craven verse. Also, did you know that there is a 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.160 Friday the Thirteenth movie that's a body hopping movie. 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.480 This this is something I always forget about, and I 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.720 don't think i've seen this one in full, but yeah, 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.199 I mean it makes sense that they would begin to 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.160 run out of things to do in the Friday the 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:28.120 Thirteenth franchise. 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:33.520 So Friday Thirteenth Part nine Jason Goes to Hell is, 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:37.439 in my opinion, the worst of all the Friday thirteenth movies. 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:42.840 It is enlivened only slightly by some well one thing 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.360 that sort of perks it up for a moment is 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:49.240 the presence of a bizarre character named Creighton Duke played 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.200 by the actor Steven Williams, who is some kind of 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.440 bounty hunter who's supposed to be hunting Jason Vorhees, the 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.680 hockey mask guy in the Friday movies. It's been a 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.920 while since I've seen this one, but I recall there's 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.839 a part where he divulges lore about how Jason can 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.280 only be killed by another vor he Is from the 0:11:07.360 --> 0:11:11.040 Vorhe's line, it's like from a Varhe's was he made 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.199 only by a Varheez? Can he be unmade? And they 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.439 also have to use a magic dagger? But in this 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:21.439 movie Jason. One of the big criticisms from fans of 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.120 the series is that for most of the movie, or 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.560 at least half of the movie, Jason doesn't look like Jason. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.840 He's not the guy in the jumpsuit with the hockey mask. 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:33.000 He's body hopping. So it's in the beginning of the 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.200 movie like a bunch of FBI agents or something kind 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.600 of blow Jason up into pieces and then some and 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:44.120 then there's like a medical pathologist who's doing an autopsy 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.160 on the remains of Jason's body, and I think gets 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.400 like hypnotized by Jason's evil heart and then eats his 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.920 heart and then gets body possessed and like turns into Jason, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.880 but doesn't look like him except in a mirror, so 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.640 it's just a regular looking guy walking around. And then 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:03.880 he trades bodies a few more times in the movie, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:07.280 so he exists as this weird little like fecal rat 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.560 snake demon who like goes out of the mouth. I 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.240 think he gets like pooped out of somebody's mouth into 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:18.360 somebody's other somebody else's mouth, much like the Slug and 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.000 The Hidden actually quite mechanically similar. I'm going to say 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.719 this effect in the Hidden looks a lot better than 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.320 the one and oh, Jason goes to Hell. 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:28.480 I don't even know what it looks like. And Jason 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.360 goes to Hell, but it's perfect in the Hidden, so. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.840 Yes, so I can't I can't prove, but suspect that 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.480 both Shocker and Jason Goes to Hell were influenced by 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:39.480 the Hidden. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.360 You know, I mean the Jason goes to Hell concept here. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.080 First of all, it's also I think this movie bombed 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.680 for a lot of people because the title sounds like 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.840 you're getting Jason, you know, in the Divine Comedy that 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.080 he's going to go to help on. Yeah, it's going 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.400 to be incredible, Like, what a great title. And then 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.079 it doesn't deliver on that. But by enlarge, the concept 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.320 of like, oh, we are all potentially Jason now, like 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.640 that could have been really good if the well wasn't 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.160 so poisoned by this movie. I could imagine going someone 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.240 going back to that, you know, because it's like all 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:14.800 you have to do now they got a hockey mask on, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.680 they're killing people. You know, it's a you know, it's 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.040 you know, this type of person one minute, this type 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.840 of person the next. Who will the next Jason be? 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:23.640 Could have worked? 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.200 I mean I think anything could work if done well. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.120 But it's just was not done. 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:30.440 It doesn't do it for me. I get a lot 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.280 of tolerance for Jason movies. Also, even like the not 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.320 good ones, I can just I have a good time 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.600 sitting through those, but this one doesn't do it for me. 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.880 All right, But yeah, so and then I was also thinking, Okay, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.520 what's the motive of the monster there? I think I 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.480 think it's just Jason, like it wants to, you know, 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.440 he does what Jason does, even when he's in somebody 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:51.120 else's body. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, rise out of water, destroy teenager, that 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.000 sort of thing. 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:58.680 Well, I do think in this case, he's trying to 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.560 destroy the people who could I don't know, he's trying 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.000 to destroy his relatives or something, because they're the only 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:09.760 ones who can unjason him with a magic dagger. Okay, yeah, 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:14.000 and self defense new lore introduced in part nine, Thank you. 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:21.000 But anyway, this got me thinking about trends and themes 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.080 in body hopping movies as opposed to other types of 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.400 horror and sci fi movies. And it got me thinking 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.920 about how they're really like two different kinds of body 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:36.280 hopping scenarios in these movies. And I just made these 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:41.040 terms up. I would call this like common deering versus repurposing. 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.120 So in your commandeering story, the original person who gets 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:51.400 possessed in some way remains alive and could, in theory, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.840 reassume control of their body. 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.760 Yeah, and generally there'll be a scene where someone's like, 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.400 I know, you're still in there, Sally, Yeah, remember this 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.600 photo of your dad, remember this stuff to animal and 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.800 or the other side of that too, is like the 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.040 possessing entity like brings out the evil side of the 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.080 person it's possessing. 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.880 That's sort of right. Yeah, And sometimes they're fighting for 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.440 control of the body. But so and it can have 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.200 different versions, like so the commandeering story, it could have 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.520 the person sort of rendered unconscious by the process of 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:25.000 the monster taking control and using their body. But other 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.160 times it's like they're conscious and aware, but they're just 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.280 powerless to control their own actions, like they are being 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:34.440 forced to sit in the passenger seat of their own 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.600 body while somebody else takes the wheel. Whereas I would 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:43.520 say that the repurposing version of this storyline is the 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.520 original person is gone and their body is now simply 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.720 a shell or a vehicle to be used by the monster. 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:52.480 I think this is the case in The Hidden I 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:54.520 don't know if you can think of a counter example, 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.840 but I don't think we ever get any indication that 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:02.440 the original person could or does survive in any way. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.920 I don't think so. It seems like once the monster's 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:07.760 in there in the Hidden There, the person is dead 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.280 and the monster is just using the body to blend in. 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.040 That largely seems to be the model here. I mean, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:17.640 it's complicated by the fact that the possessing evil entity 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.040 generally has no intention of you know, returning the vhs 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.000 at the end of the rental. You know, he drives 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.640 them all like he stole them, you know, generally into 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:32.200 the ground and into an explosion, that sort of thing. 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.280 And then also we see cases where he is possessing 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:39.080 a body that he is either already fatally injured or 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.280 about to die, or may in fact be dead. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.440 Yeah, that's right. So I was thinking about the ways 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.520 that these slightly different ways of dealing with the scenario 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:54.120 bring up different themes, like how commandeering scenarios in storytelling 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.400 generally introduced themes of agency and control. It's like you're 0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.960 talking about with the scene, like I know you're in 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.320 their sally. You know you can fight back. And these 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.240 can often be metaphors for like real situations that make 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.840 people feel as if they're not in control of their 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.959 own actions, or situations where people act against their interests. 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:19.600 So subjects like addiction or compulsive behavior, temptation against our 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:24.600 better angels, and things like that. Whereas repurposing scenarios, I think, 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:29.440 tend to be more about external threats, about trust and suspicion, 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.879 and they raise questions like can you ever really know 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:37.480 another person? And are other people really who you think 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:40.679 they are? And I think that The Hidden does in 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.679 fact deal more with the latter themes than with the former. 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:46.639 It's not really about agency and control, but it is 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.880 very much about are people really who you think they are? 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.600 And that comes through in multiple ways. The themes are 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.200 kind of subtle because on the surface level, it really 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.800 is like a meathead action movie, like it's a bullet 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:05.000 hell plot. It doesn't usually stop to get very, you know, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.879 very thoughtful. The ways in which it's thoughtful are just 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.080 kind of for you to find on your own mostly, 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.840 But I think these themes are there, like it asks 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.160 can how can we really trust that people are who 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.520 they say they are? And that applies to politicians seeking 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:28.479 power and to family members seeking love and intimacy. It 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:31.919 is a question raised in multiple ways by the story. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:35.320 Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I would agree that that that 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.080 depth is there for you to explore on your own 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:38.679 if you want to. 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.199 In between explosions, Yes, but I would also say that 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.040 of all the movies we've been talking about, I think 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.919 The Hidden makes better, weirder and funnier use of the 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:55.199 body hopping plot convention than most of the other movies 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.400 that I can think of that do some version of this. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.560 I would agree this movie is tremendous if you're on 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.199 board for the eighties cop violence, and I have to 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.200 distress like the violence in this film. You know, it's 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.560 nowhere near like the RoboCop level of like disturbing violence. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.200 You know, it's it's a there's a lot of shoot 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:14.680 them up in a lot of squibs, like you said, 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.520 But on the whole that the tone here is fun. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.120 It is not a feel bad motion picture. It isn't 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.679 It is body horror, but not not body horror in 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.879 the sense that we often think about it today. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.879 Yeah, I would say I agree with you about the 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:33.439 violence because like most of the stuff, it moves on 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.159 from pretty quick. But there is some violence in it 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.320 that feels pretty nasty because it is the alien doing 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.400 its crime spree, and not just like fighting cops, but 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.920 just like randomly killing like random civilians. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, if you if you don't want to 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.600 see that kind of thing, because obviously it does mirror 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.600 things that happen in our real world. Give it a 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.280 skip or you know, wait till you're in the right 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.879 mood for it. But but if you're willing to stomach 0:19:57.920 --> 0:19:59.480 all of that, it's pretty fun. 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:03.800 Uh So elevator pitch. I mean, we've sort of gone 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:06.119 over this, but I would say it's like one part 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.600 by the Numbers hardcore cop thing. It's one part like 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.000 satirical science fiction. It's Kurt Vonnegut in a way almost. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.439 I don't know if that's a little bit overpraising it, 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.440 but it's it's a little bit Vonneguty. It's one part 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:22.880 proto Twin Peaks and another part just watching somebody play 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:23.720 Grand Theft auto. 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.080 Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, and I'll give it 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.840 an alternate elevator pitch. I'm just gonna say Space slug 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:43.080 the motion picture. Oh yeah, all right, Well, let's get 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.040 into the folks behind this one. And I'm going to 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.679 add another spoiler warning here because in running through the cast, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.760 I am going to go ahead and reveal many of 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:54.080 the people who end up getting Space Slugged that end 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:56.879 up being possessed and becoming the meat suit for the 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:01.320 parasite because it's ultimately important for evaluating the actors performances, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.879 I think because absolutely some of the if we just 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.760 told them, oh yeah, this guy plays a dude in 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.600 the hospital, like that doesn't tell you anything like that, 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.400 they really get to shine when they are possessed by 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:12.040 the space lug. 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:14.359 Yeah. I agree. This is again why I put the 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.200 spoiler warning right at the top of this episode, because 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.200 this is one where we really just like, you can't 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.040 talk about it at all without spoiling some of the surprises, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:23.879 and we have to be able to talk about it. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.960 So yeah, we're warning again if if you didn't heed 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:28.879 us the first time and you want to keep and 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.440 you want to watch it with some surprises still intact, 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.880 stop here, go watch it and then come back. 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.200 I have to say this. I'm I'm really I really 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:38.560