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Speaker 1: Hey, well, welcome and I'm done. Gottlieb. This is all ball.

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Speaker 1: Well you've been a clamoring for because we had parts

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Speaker 1: one and two. This is part three with Shaka Smart. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So when we last time with Shaka, he had just

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Speaker 1: finished his first year at VCU. His second year was

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Speaker 1: the final four year. But I think it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: to start at the point of the end of your

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Speaker 1: first year, because end of your first year a lot

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Speaker 1: of times it's your first year as head coach. You

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Speaker 1: self assessed, you says to roster, you assess your coaching staff.

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Speaker 1: How did how did they go from really high quality

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Speaker 1: mid major program two first four to final four. It's

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Speaker 1: all in here, enjoy it. Here's my conversation with Shaka Yea.

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Speaker 1: When we last caught up, we had ended a one

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Speaker 1: at VCU, and you mentioned how much you love that group. Right, um,

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Speaker 1: but all people remember about VCUS year two, right you

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Speaker 1: said your favorite two favorite clubs were year three right

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Speaker 1: after the Final four and this current team at Marquette. Um,

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Speaker 1: you get downe your first year. You've been a head

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Speaker 1: coach three year now, and usually when you come in

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Speaker 1: guys like you know, I got well, I get my

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Speaker 1: own guys, and we got my guys on the way.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to get rid of a couple of

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Speaker 1: guys to make space. What was the end of your

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Speaker 1: first year like at BCU, there was definitely there was

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Speaker 1: some of that. This was before the transfer portal era,

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Speaker 1: so it was mostly you know, high school guys that

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Speaker 1: you brought in. But we had we had signed several guys,

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Speaker 1: and then there was a couple of guys at the

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Speaker 1: end of year one that probably weren't the best cultural

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Speaker 1: fits or we weren't the best cultural fit for them,

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Speaker 1: however you want to put it. UM. In fact, I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget Mike Rhodes. I won't say the name of

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Speaker 1: the player, but Mike Roads is a current head coach

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Speaker 1: at VCU. He was our a top assistant at the time.

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Speaker 1: Now and the season got done, we got back. Um

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Speaker 1: came back from the final four. Um, and he came

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Speaker 1: in my office and he said, he said, listen, I

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Speaker 1: love it here, I love working with you, I love

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Speaker 1: the guys. VC is a great place. But either he's

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Speaker 1: gotta go or I gotta go. He's talking about one

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Speaker 1: of the players. Uh, So, you know, there was there

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Speaker 1: was definitely some a little bit of turnover, but the

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Speaker 1: majority of that team came back. The one guy that

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Speaker 1: we lost, um that you know we was it was

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Speaker 1: a terrific player as a guy by the name of

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Speaker 1: Larry Sanders. He was ending up there fift picking a draft,

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Speaker 1: so he left after his junior year. And it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because the team that ended up going to the Final four, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have Larry. So if if we

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Speaker 1: had him, and we probably would have won more games

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Speaker 1: in a regular season, but I don't know that we

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Speaker 1: would have had the same postseason run. What is that

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Speaker 1: like to go from assistant to head coach in terms

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Speaker 1: of the relationships? Right? Because and and again I know

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Speaker 1: you have really good relationships with all your players, probably

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Speaker 1: more so than a lot of head coaches. Some because

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Speaker 1: your age, some because your backgrounds, I'm just because your personality.

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Speaker 1: But there is a there's a different, different sort of thing, right,

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Speaker 1: There's a different sort of relationship. What do you learn

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Speaker 1: when you're a head coach from one year about how

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Speaker 1: about how those relationships have to evolve and even change

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Speaker 1: because you're a head coach. Well, I think the biggest

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Speaker 1: thing I had never been the assistant coach that was

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Speaker 1: was the heavy when I now I was, I was

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Speaker 1: only assistant coach for a relatively short amount of time.

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Speaker 1: And when I was in Florida, I was I was

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Speaker 1: by far the third assistant. You know that we had

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Speaker 1: Roblin Near and Larry Shy and um. When I was

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Speaker 1: at Clemson, I was the youngest assistant. So I was

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Speaker 1: kind of always a young guy, and so becoming a

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Speaker 1: head coach, I had to get comfortable with the fact

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Speaker 1: that as a head coach there may be a little

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Speaker 1: bit more separation, uh sometimes. And you also got to

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Speaker 1: be the bad guy a little bit more than I

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Speaker 1: was accustomed to, which is not my natural personality. I

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Speaker 1: don't really like being a bad guy, but you know,

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Speaker 1: you do it when you have to. Yeah, It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like being the boss of any job, like nowson,

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Speaker 1: you gotta hire and fire people like that's not that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and and uh hold him accountable. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the thing that's been interesting is over the years you

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Speaker 1: kind of learned that, you know, the best players, the

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Speaker 1: good players they want to on ability. You know, they

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Speaker 1: want you to help them be better. I mean, at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, that's the number one thing

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Speaker 1: that they they want from you is if you can

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Speaker 1: help them grow and improve, then you're adding adding value

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Speaker 1: for him. How do you identify somebody who's a cultural

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Speaker 1: fit your VCU? How do you identify that? I mean

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Speaker 1: I wasn't as good at identifying that at that point

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Speaker 1: as I am now. I mean, it's been a real evolution.

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Speaker 1: We have very specific characteristics that we're looking for now

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Speaker 1: that that come out of a culture document that we

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Speaker 1: created several years ago. But a VCU, it was more

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Speaker 1: just spending time, um, trying to ask questions. UM. I

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Speaker 1: think I told you last time. Dave Tellip was a

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Speaker 1: good friend of mine who was at that point in

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Speaker 1: the high school recruiting space, and uh, he was really

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Speaker 1: good at just helping teach me about um what he

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Speaker 1: called eyes, ears and numbers. So you know, what are

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Speaker 1: your eyes? See? What are your ears here? And then

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Speaker 1: what are the numbers? Tell you? Um too as kind

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Speaker 1: of a system to go about scouting. But your your guys,

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Speaker 1: we're like junkyard dogs right like that. That's again this

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Speaker 1: is maybe my perception of it is I felt like

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Speaker 1: your guys you're hungry, right, sometimes a little bit under size. Uh,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you know you're at bc U because you're missing something,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe a little bit smaller, I mean, like

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Speaker 1: enough shooter, maybe it's academically right. So that's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that when I first got there. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I keep bringing him up, but he really

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Speaker 1: really helped us. So Dave Telip came up and we

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Speaker 1: did it. He did a profile of all conference players

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Speaker 1: in the CIA, which is the league that we were

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Speaker 1: in at the time, and it's exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what was it about the A C C

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Speaker 1: or you know, the Big East or the SEC see

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Speaker 1: that they didn't want these guys, but then they ended

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Speaker 1: up being really really good players. So Eric Mayner, for instance,

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Speaker 1: who was the best player ever to play at VCU,

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Speaker 1: UM was really skinny in high school. He wasn't a

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Speaker 1: particularly good shooter in high school, and he played on

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Speaker 1: a lesser known AU team and that combination got him

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Speaker 1: under recruited. I mean there was a CEC schools that

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Speaker 1: we dabbled and looked and said, uh nuh, you know,

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Speaker 1: not quite and he ends up coming to vc un

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Speaker 1: be an all time leading scorer and assist man. So

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Speaker 1: those were the type of guys that we were trying

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Speaker 1: to go get. You know, one the guy that um

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Speaker 1: you know, epitomized our style of play in my time

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Speaker 1: of VCU more than anyone was Briante Webber Um and

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Speaker 1: he played four years. His senior year was probably the

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Speaker 1: best team we ever had at VC you during my time,

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Speaker 1: But he tore his a c l um late January

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Speaker 1: of a senior year. And then trey Vian Graham, the

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Speaker 1: other terrific player we had, sustain in a high ankle

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Speaker 1: sprain in January of his same year, and so we weren't.

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Speaker 1: But you mentioned Briante Webber right, so like he was

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Speaker 1: unbelievable defensive, like one of those guys that he just

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Speaker 1: take the ball from. Dudes, just instincts were Listen, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna tell you a funny story about that. I'm at Texas,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's my first or second year,

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Speaker 1: and we're on a recruiting dinner, and so we're with

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Speaker 1: a recruit and there's a game on TV. It's Briante

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Speaker 1: and one of the UM teen teams he played for.

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Speaker 1: He moved around a lot against the Boston Celtics and

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Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving at the time, and I said to the recruit.

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Speaker 1: I said, listen, every time he plays against someone, the

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Speaker 1: first time he plays them, he takes the ball from them.

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Speaker 1: And I said, watch, he's about to take the ball

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Speaker 1: from Kyrie Irving. And the guys like, nah, you can't.

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Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving is literally as good a ball handler as

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Speaker 1: there is in the world. And he goes and you

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Speaker 1: can look it up. You can you you can go

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Speaker 1: on YouTube. He goes and he plucks Kyrie Irving, and

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Speaker 1: he goes and lays the ball up, and Kyrie Irving

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Speaker 1: actually kind of hustle back and try to block the

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Speaker 1: shop and uh, you know, obviously you only did it once.

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Speaker 1: But that's the type of player he was, to your point,

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Speaker 1: the quickest hands I've ever seen. But to your point

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Speaker 1: about recruiting, So how we recruited him, he had like

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Speaker 1: no scholarship offers. I think maybe Norfolk State, Where's where

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Speaker 1: he's coming out of the seven seven, which is UH

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Speaker 1: is kind of the the area code for the Tidewater

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Speaker 1: area Norfolk, Virginia, Hampton, Rhodes, Virginia, Chesapeake, Virginia UH an area.

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Speaker 1: You know, Alan Irison's from that area area, an area

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Speaker 1: really well known for great you know, a lot of

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Speaker 1: great talent coming out of there for football and basketball,

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Speaker 1: Michael Vick from that area. Um, and so he he

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Speaker 1: ends his senior year and he's got like nothing or

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Speaker 1: next to nothing, and Mike Rhodes says, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: we should send this guy, you know, have him go

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Speaker 1: to prep school. He could maybe be a guy for

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Speaker 1: us in the next class. And so we set him

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Speaker 1: up to go to Fork Union Academy, which I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you've heard of. Fletcher Air it was a coach at

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Speaker 1: the time, and uh, he comes into our our team

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Speaker 1: camp and our elite camp at the time. It's a

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Speaker 1: Saturday and a Sunday, and he's just like locking everybody up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we had guys there that were probably a

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Speaker 1: higher level than we could recruit, and guys we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: end up being able to recruit, and he's out playing

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Speaker 1: them and taking the ball from them. So we end

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Speaker 1: up offering a scholarship on the spot. Amazing. UM. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you get ready for your second year, how had

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Speaker 1: you changed as a coach. As a head coach, I'm

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Speaker 1: having one year in your belt. I think each year,

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Speaker 1: this is a generalization, but each year I've probably tried

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Speaker 1: to control less. Um. You know, I think my natural

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Speaker 1: type is to try to control everything, but I learned

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Speaker 1: for sure in that first year that there's so much

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Speaker 1: more outside of my control than I than I realized. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think going into the second year, we had

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Speaker 1: an older team. Joey Rodriguez um and and his classmates

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Speaker 1: were seniors. UM. And Joey in particularly was really really smart,

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Speaker 1: and he also was very opinionated, and UM, I just

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Speaker 1: learned like, there's certain battles that it doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: to pick with with with those guys. And so I

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Speaker 1: would say that's probably the biggest way I changed from

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Speaker 1: your one to year two, just a little bit less

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Speaker 1: trying to control everything. Is the start of the year,

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Speaker 1: you beat Wake, you lose a close one in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: you beat U c l A. Okay, what what do

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Speaker 1: you think about your team? Like, did you think I

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Speaker 1: got some special here? All your all your thoughts on

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Speaker 1: on your group? Well, the thing that we learned the

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Speaker 1: first month or so that year was we got a

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Speaker 1: group that really is motivated to play the big boys. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, they they get up for playing big names

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Speaker 1: and guys that were highly recruited and teams that didn't

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Speaker 1: recruit them, and so that was, you know, something we

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Speaker 1: learned then. But as you know then when you get

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Speaker 1: in calm, friends play and we're in the CIA, um,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't apply as much. And you know, fortunately we

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Speaker 1: it really really helped us in the n c A

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Speaker 1: Tournaments tournament and then in the final four, it really

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Speaker 1: hurt us because we're back to playing a mid Um.

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Speaker 1: I'll never forget. Uh. And they played before us. I

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Speaker 1: think we played on a Sunday and Butler and Florida

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Speaker 1: played on a Saturday. But um, that was that was

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Speaker 1: a you know, regional final game. You know, we were

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Speaker 1: where we had got We had a couple of guys

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Speaker 1: from Florida, including Joey Rodriguez. If they would have won

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Speaker 1: that game, um, and and this I'm not saying we

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Speaker 1: would have won, but uh, the guys psychologically there would

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Speaker 1: have been you know, more, a lot more there for

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Speaker 1: them because that's something that they really really ate up.

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Speaker 1: Its interesting, I the bracket but I remember the bracketbuster

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Speaker 1: being the game that got you in the n c

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Speaker 1: A tournament, right because you lost o DU in the

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Speaker 1: championship game, but you had beaten Wichita on the road

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Speaker 1: and the bracketbuster Saturday and like that was and that

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Speaker 1: was the real life. The idea what bracketbusters should have

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Speaker 1: been was it should have been v CU against U

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Speaker 1: C L A or against a mid mid level A

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Speaker 1: C C team because that's really what who you're competing

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Speaker 1: against is these teams that you know you're better than,

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Speaker 1: but you don't get a shot at in February and

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Speaker 1: you know, essentially you eliminate the eliminate Wichita State. But

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Speaker 1: it did it propelled you to determine what was the

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Speaker 1: what was that selection Sunday? Like waiting? So it was

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Speaker 1: I told you about the last one, so this one.

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Speaker 1: The week leading up to it, I had called all

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Speaker 1: the committee members of the n I T selection Committee,

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Speaker 1: not the A n I T and you know, the

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Speaker 1: n T SLA committee at that point was a bunch

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Speaker 1: of uh kind of retired coaches and administrators, you know,

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Speaker 1: guys that have been around it for a long long time.

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Speaker 1: And so I called these guys. I said, listen, last

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Speaker 1: year we had the best RPI in the country. Not

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Speaker 1: to make the n I t. I said, we're hoping

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Speaker 1: to make the n c A Tournament, but if something happens,

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Speaker 1: we really really would like to be in the n

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Speaker 1: I t And it's just funny. And so I made

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Speaker 1: the decision for the selection show that we weren'ting to

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Speaker 1: watch it together because we had some really volatile personalities

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Speaker 1: and I just I didn't know what would happen if

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Speaker 1: we didn't get selected. So um, in our office it

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Speaker 1: was just me. I mean, our coaching staff was kind

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Speaker 1: of spread out in the office, but in my office

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Speaker 1: it was me and our five freshmen. I had those

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Speaker 1: guys come in and uh, you know, watched the show

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Speaker 1: with me, and we sat there and we watched the show.

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Speaker 1: And I think in one of the first two regions,

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Speaker 1: you a B came up and you a B was

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Speaker 1: it was one of the teams that played in the

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Speaker 1: first four UM and they beat me. They beat me

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Speaker 1: by three to at their place, Yes, and we were

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Speaker 1: up in that game by maybe sixteen eighteen points. In

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Speaker 1: the second half. They came back. They had a good team,

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Speaker 1: UM came back and beat us. And so when that

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Speaker 1: came up, it was like a you know, like like

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Speaker 1: if we just win that game. Um, so it gets

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Speaker 1: to the last region, you know, and there's basically one

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Speaker 1: more slot that we you know, we could be that

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Speaker 1: that other This was the first year of the first four, Um,

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Speaker 1: we could be in that other first four games. And

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Speaker 1: it just it was like, I don't know, it was

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Speaker 1: like slow motion, like it came up and it said

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Speaker 1: it said Georgetown, and then then you know it's like

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Speaker 1: the slash right, well, he said Georgetown, and then the

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Speaker 1: next line it's like Greg Gumbel or you know, whoever's

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Speaker 1: unvailing it, and it says Vcus and it's just everything

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Speaker 1: just goes Everybody just goes nuts, Like everyone's running around

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Speaker 1: the office chest bumping. It was like just euphoria. It

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Speaker 1: was administrators running in, coaches from different places, and we're

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Speaker 1: all just running around celebrating like crazy. And then like

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Speaker 1: ten minutes later, we're like, who do we play? We

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Speaker 1: didn't even know, like we didn't even wait for the

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Speaker 1: slash slash USC, but we didn't wait for that, and

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Speaker 1: so that's that's how we found out that we were in.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, when you're in the first four,

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Speaker 1: it it happens really quick, like you're playing on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: or Wednesday, and then if you win, you play on

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Speaker 1: Thursday Friday. So we went. We went Wednesday in Dayton

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Speaker 1: against usc UM. It was a typical first n C

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Speaker 1: A tournament game where like everybody's nervous and you know,

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Speaker 1: nobody can score for a while, and and second half

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Speaker 1: we kind of kind of hit our groove and started

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Speaker 1: playing better. Um. Then we went Friday in the United Center.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, You're like, don't don't sw skim,

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Speaker 1: it's too good a story, just like well the USC

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Speaker 1: and Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup

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Speaker 1: in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox

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Speaker 1: sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio

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Speaker 1: app search f s R to listen live. You're okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're pressed at the time. One press, two presses,

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Speaker 1: three press, Like, what what is the difference in in

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Speaker 1: the pressure that you apply basically to man and man

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Speaker 1: full court? And then Diamond just wanted to one one yep, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so but but there's there's different types of man press. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you got a guy in the ball, you got a

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Speaker 1: guy's safe. Uh, well, we would do both, I mean

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Speaker 1: normally a guy in the ball, um and then sometimes

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Speaker 1: we would take the guy off the ball and have

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Speaker 1: him deny the point guard. Um. The USC actually at

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Speaker 1: the time had this really little quick guard. I can't

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Speaker 1: remember his name. He's from Detroit and so I have

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Speaker 1: something that we tried to use on him. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we played USC's point guard was uh was Marcus Simmons

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Speaker 1: or no, no, not MARKU Simmons. Was Dante Smith? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: really little like five nine five tips. They all said

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Speaker 1: Vosovic on that, And so our best player was Jamie Skeen. Um.

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Speaker 1: And Jamie Skeen went on the heck of a run.

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Speaker 1: I mean he outplayed some phenomenal players in that n C.

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Speaker 1: A tournament star he was. But it was also a

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Speaker 1: stretch big too, right, So like so Luchovich couldn't come

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Speaker 1: out and those guys aren't used to coming out and cover. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so so you got them sped up and you got

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Speaker 1: their big coming out and covering. You got them completely

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Speaker 1: out of well and you know you you got you

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Speaker 1: got size and length on their point guard and they

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Speaker 1: can kind of do do nothing. Now the diamond versus

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Speaker 1: the man, what's the determination to when you're in what

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00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,159
Speaker 1: we would just go back and forth, I mean whatever

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Speaker 1: we call um I like the man the man more personally. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about the diamond press is one way

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Speaker 1: or the other, it's gonna get the style of play going.

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Speaker 1: Like either they're gonna they're gonna shoot quick, um and

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Speaker 1: or you're gonna turn them over or they're gonna lay

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Speaker 1: it up or dunk it. But it's gonna go. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna get the game going fast. Um. You know, as

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Speaker 1: we went in our time at VCU, we played more

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Speaker 1: and more what we call double fist, which is man

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Speaker 1: to man um run him and yeah and that and

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Speaker 1: that if they break the press a lot of times

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Speaker 1: can slow the game down. It's like a long possession. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of a grinding thing. But um yeah,

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Speaker 1: the diamond really gets the game going b usc Okay,

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Speaker 1: So now you got it like that thing like you said,

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Speaker 1: it turns over quick. But I always thought again as player,

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Speaker 1: like I remember when I when played in the Big

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Speaker 1: twelve tournament that I thought that first game was actually

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Speaker 1: helpful because, like you said, you get all the jitters out.

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Speaker 1: So then you go and play in the first round

359
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Speaker 1: and you guys have already played a game. You guys

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Speaker 1: have already won a game, right and and your VCU

361
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Speaker 1: you kind of kids gotta let their nuts hang anyway, right,

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Speaker 1: so you go play Georgetown, um, and you're in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: She can date into Chicago. You gotta play Georgetown. What

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Speaker 1: do you remember about the game? I just remember our

365
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Speaker 1: guys being so driven and motivated. George Stown it's in

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Speaker 1: the same region as v c U. It's about ninety

367
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Speaker 1: minutes from ninety miles from DC to Richmond. And you know,

368
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: our guys were just so excited and motivated to play

369
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Speaker 1: those guys. We got into Chicago at three in the

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Speaker 1: morning after leaving Dayton, and there was just such an

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Speaker 1: energy that they had. And we started the game and

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Speaker 1: it was apparent that, you know, we we were really

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Speaker 1: going to be able to play fast and our guys

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Speaker 1: just had great energy. So we we went adam pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember the final score, but uh we we

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Speaker 1: won all those games. Yeah, that's called a no doubter. Yeah,

377
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Speaker 1: our guys flew around pretty good in that one. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Then Perdue again, like Perdue in Chicago, hour and a

379
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Speaker 1: half from their campus, right, and you know, like Perdue

380
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Speaker 1: comes in like big ten kind of regal big dudes, um,

381
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Speaker 1: and the same game. Like, here's the thing that I

382
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: think you guys benefited from in that style. Benefit trump

383
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Speaker 1: Nobody the Big ten plays that way, right, nobody plays

384
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Speaker 1: that way. They haven't none of your got they haven't

385
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: heard of any of your guys. So there's and your guys,

386
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: like you said, it's respecting, but more than anything you're

387
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: gonna give as good coaches, Matt Painter is twenty four

388
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: hours or forty eight hours to prep for a style

389
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: that they don't ever play against, whereas you guys play

390
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: the same regardless, it doesn't matter. Like that's kind of

391
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: the benefits of that style. It really is. And uh,

392
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, we started the game. They had each one

393
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: more um, they had Robbie Hummel was hurt um and

394
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: they had a great big and Juwan Johnson. Uh. And

395
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: the game started and they made a few threes. Early

396
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: the game was kind of going back and forth, and

397
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: it was kind of playing the way we wanted to

398
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: play and they but they were making shots. But we

399
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 1: felt like, hey, this is good, you know, let's let's

400
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 1: just kind to play the if we can play the

401
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 1: game our way. And then as the game went on,

402
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: our guys just kind of kept getting stronger and stronger,

403
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: and we scored a lot of points that day. I

404
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: don't remember then, yeah, Um, which is that was a

405
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: lot for us, you know. Um, and it was just

406
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. I mean it was like, wow,

407
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 1: we're playing Perdue in Chicago. Um. You know, my grandfather

408
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,959
Speaker 1: lived in Chicago my whole life and you know, unfortunately

409
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: he was on his deathbed at at that time. He

410
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Speaker 1: ended up passing away a week or two later. Um,

411
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Speaker 1: and so it was just a it was a weird.

412
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Speaker 1: It was really emotional day for me because he had

413
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Speaker 1: taken me to a game in the in in old

414
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Speaker 1: Chicago stadium, Uh, to see the Bulls way back when

415
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Speaker 1: I was a young kid. Mama me, your dad's mom

416
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: my mom's dad. I'm your Yeah, And uh, he was

417
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: more of a baseball guy. He took me to a

418
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 1: lot of Cubs games, but it was just being in

419
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Speaker 1: the United Center. But he wasn't there. Everything I had

420
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: spent I've been in Chicago millions of times, always with him,

421
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: and uh, but just winning and then winning that game,

422
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: it was it was emotional, but it was crazy. I mean,

423
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Speaker 1: the first time ever for VCU being in the sweet

424
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: sixteen and those guys were just so confident, fun group

425
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: to be around. What what were you like at that

426
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Speaker 1: time in terms of standing up, sitting down, talking with

427
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: your assistants, like processing, because I'm sure at some point

428
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 1: in time they're hitting shots and you're like, I mean,

429
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what what what you're like during those moments. Yeah,

430
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 1: you know, I've never sat down, Like literally, I've never

431
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: never sat down in a game. And I think I

432
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: get that from Keith dan Brod, who I worked for

433
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: an akron Um, But I just I just kind of antsy,

434
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: like that's the last thing I want to sit down. Um.

435
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: But we had a great staff and and those guys

436
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: are constantly in my year. But at the same time,

437
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: as you know, Doug, when when you have a good

438
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: team that's on a run, the coaches, the head coach

439
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: and the assistant coaches, the biggest thing that they can

440
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: do is step back and notch. And that's what we did.

441
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: Are you a rotation guy or do you go by field?

442
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: A little bit of both, I mean try to get

443
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: We played a lot of guys during that run. And

444
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, again, all the games other than the Florida

445
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 1: State game in the N c A tournament we won

446
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: by double figures. The Kansas thing did get cluse when

447
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: Kansa because it did get close. There was a he

448
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: got really close, got close when those guys were trying

449
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: to trying to mess us around. But yeah, no, we

450
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: played We played a pretty good healthy rocation. We had

451
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: freshman that we were playing. Uh we started a freshman

452
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: at center, even though our best lineup was Jamie Scheme

453
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: when we went a little bit smaller at the five.

454
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, we played a pretty good rotation. So you go.

455
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: Now you go to the sweet sixteen Florida State, not

456
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: Florida State. Uh, they can play fast, they can play

457
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: like that. There's a different level. That was an athletic

458
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: talented long team. Right yeah, right, what what was the

459
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: prep for that one? Like? So, Mike Jones was one

460
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: of our assistant coaches. He's a head coach at u

461
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: NC Greensboro now, and uh, we joke all the time

462
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: because he's a little bit in scouting. He can sometimes

463
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: be a glass half empty guy. I think he's gotten

464
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 1: better now that he's a head coach. But you know,

465
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: it was like we're getting ready for Florida State and

466
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know what we're gonna do against

467
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: these guys, Like we don't match up very well with them.

468
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: They've got six guys six ten or over. Um, you know,

469
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: their guards are huge, and I'm like, Mike, they gotta

470
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: deal with us too, you know. And so um, our

471
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: guys just fought and battled. Um that was a kind

472
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: of a grind of a game because athletically they they

473
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: could more than you know, match up with us, and

474
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: then size wise we struggled. But um, you know our guys,

475
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: Jamie skeeen, you know, really it was a huge He

476
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: was a dude, you know. So when you have a

477
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: guy like that and you're at like a mid level school,

478
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 1: you gotta really take advantage of him against those schools

479
00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: that are really athletic. Now the play kids, okay, and uh,

480
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: they had they had won it, but two years before

481
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: I think they want it two years before. Um, and

482
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: they're more again of a kind of traditional team as

483
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: opposed to the athleticism of Florida State. We do you

484
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: remember about that the Cans King, I remember a lot.

485
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I remember before the game. Uh, in the you know,

486
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: the captains go to the center circle and they had

487
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: the Morris twins, so that that that was their two

488
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,959
Speaker 1: captains and we had Joey Rodriguez and I think Brandon

489
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: Rosel maybe ed Nixon, and uh, one of the Morist

490
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: twins says to Joey Rodriguez, he said, Hey, you guys

491
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: have had a nice little run, but it's about to

492
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: end today. And uh, Joey's like, yeah, okay. And you

493
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: have to know Joey, but he absolutely, he absolutely has

494
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: a little man's complex. So we go back in the

495
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: locker room the last time before we're coming out, and

496
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: the players are in there before any of the coaches

497
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: get there. But I could kind of hear Joey's given

498
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: this pep talk, like who the head of these guys

499
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: think they are saying that to us? We're going out

500
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: there next, and it was like they were just charged

501
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: up because the one of the more st twints made

502
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: his comment, and so we really didn't have to say much.

503
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: And uh, we started the game. We were down six nothing,

504
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: and it was like it was like a varsity high

505
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: school team playing against the freshman team. Like we just

506
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: size wise, we were we were you know, overmatched. Um,

507
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: but then we just started making threes and Brandon Rozel

508
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: was probably our best outside shooter, one of our best.

509
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: He started just reigning threes. I remember he made I

510
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: think his second three, and he turned around to Kansas

511
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: bench and he just looked at him and nodded his head.

512
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: And so we were able to build a pretty would lead.

513
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: But then, like you said, Kansas made a run to

514
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: start the second half. I felt like there were some

515
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: calls that were a little off. Uh that was just

516
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: me and it was good officials. Who who was officiating

517
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: the game? So it was Mike Eats, it was Tony Green,

518
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: and I believe ted Valentine I believe was the third one.

519
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: And so there's this picture that you know, we sometimes

520
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: text with some of the coaches that were on that staff.

521
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: There's this picture of me and it looks like I'm

522
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: like charging Mike Eats um and I you know, I

523
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know if they called it, caught it or whatever,

524
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 1: but I end up getting a technical file. We were

525
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: up six or eight. I got a technical file, and

526
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: Joey Rodriguez was so mad at me, like for giving

527
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: them two points, like come on, coach, what the hell?

528
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: Oh um? But our guys did a great job as

529
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, sorry, Joe I mean no, no, I mean

530
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: did you did you curse? Like? Why did you have?

531
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: Technically I've never understand the technical foul in a big

532
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: game like, well, I'll tell you this. This is my

533
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: theory on this. I think every head coach has a

534
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: there's an expectation of that head coach by the officials,

535
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: and so it's a range that the officials kind of

536
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: allow that guy to be in. But if it's a fiery,

537
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: crazy head coach that always dog curses the officials, his

538
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: range is different, and so he's allowed to do that more.

539
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: If it's a coach that doesn't normally do that, but

540
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: then he gets a little bit more fiery or more aggressive,

541
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: he's more likely to get a t like I got

542
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: in that moment. I mean you and I both know,

543
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: and we won't name any names, but I mean there's

544
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: coaches that just some of the words that used to

545
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: these guys would warrant a technical file from most other coaches,

546
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: like ten times in the game. So I got outside

547
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: of my range, I guess. Well. Also, I mean the

548
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: reality is you weren't a known dude at that time, right,

549
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: he's Bill self and your second second year, second year

550
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: head coach so it's not I didn't say it was fair,

551
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: but it's a reality. It's reality for sure. But the

552
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: important thing is when I got got the technical, our

553
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: team really kind of rallied around each other and you know,

554
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: played great down the stretch. You didn't get it on purpose.

555
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: You didn't do the I'm gonna get it on purpose

556
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: and get some calls. I've never gotten a technical on purpose.

557
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't believe in that. Um, you beat Kansas, you're

558
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: going to a first four to final four, and it's

559
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: the first time they've done the final for it now,

560
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: not the first c a team because George Mason had

561
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: done it, you know, previ sleep. But for you, what

562
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 1: do you remember about those moments after going to the

563
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: when you when you when you won the game. I

564
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: was just I mean, as you know, I mean, you've

565
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: done a lot of winning in your time. Like it's

566
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: there's never won that game there, there's just no way

567
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: to describe it, um And And it's the best part

568
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 1: of being on a team is like when you go

569
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: do something special with a group of people together, there's

570
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,399
Speaker 1: truly like this connectivity in this bond that you know

571
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: nobody can mess with. And so it's just so much fun. Um.

572
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: We went back to Richmond. We flew back from San Antonio.

573
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: It was a Sunday night, and we got back at

574
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: like two in the morning, and so we were driving

575
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: back to our arena and and somebody's said, Hey, going

576
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: to the arena. There's some fans in there. So we

577
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: go kind of down the stairs to go to the arena.

578
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: The arena is completely packed at two in the morning,

579
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean complete VCUS arena, seats about seventy people, completely

580
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: packed and it's like an impromptu pep rally when we

581
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: got back. So the Manta energy there in Richmond. It

582
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 1: was crazy, and I think in some ways it did

583
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: work against us a little bit on our prep that

584
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: week going into the final four, um, because those guys

585
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: probably didn't sleep, and you know, we tried to manage

586
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: it and we tried to, you know, do the things

587
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: coaches do. But everyone was just on like level ten

588
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: in terms of their excitement. What's amazing is you play Butler,

589
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: And I mean in terms of talent, like the year

590
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 1: before you got Gordon Heyward, you know they still had

591
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: Sheldon mac whatever. But that year, I mean Matt Howard

592
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: and Shelvin Mack are their best places make man Howard's

593
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: like six five, I don't know if he can dunk.

594
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: Amazing college player. You mentioned, you know, your connection with

595
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: Brad and there's some similarities kind of in your in

596
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: your path a little bit. And what what was So

597
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: you're you're trying to calm down, You're trying to manage

598
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: that you gotta prep for the Final four? What's the process? Like,

599
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it was kind of more of the same

600
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: for us as coaches. But I think the hardest thing

601
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: was getting our guys to um, I understand that we

602
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 1: hadn't reached the finish line. Yeah, I think you know,

603
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: college basketball is it's interesting and and I'm glad that.

604
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm glad that college basketball is like this. Making the

605
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: Final four is such a big big deal, whereas like

606
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: if you think of like the NBA, it's either like

607
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 1: you in the finals or you know, you didn't you know,

608
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: you didn't have a good, good enough season. Even Sweet

609
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,800
Speaker 1: six teen is a big thing. Like the Sweet sixteen

610
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: is like a mini Final Four, celebrating accomplishments, right, Yeah,

611
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: And I think that's absolutely absolutely how it should be,

612
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: so that more players and teams feel like, you know,

613
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: we did something. Now. The flip side of that is,

614
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: and I think this is probably the case for anyone

615
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: that makes the Final four. It's a little bit of

616
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: mental gymnastics if you've never done it before as a

617
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: player or as a coach, especially as a player when

618
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: you're young, just that, hey, we got a game in

619
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: a few days and we're actually eighty minutes away from

620
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: winning the whole thing if we can play well. Um,

621
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: and I just I don't think that we played as

622
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: well as we could have. But okay, so if you

623
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: could do something differently, what would what would it be? Oh? Man,

624
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: I do a million things differently. Uh. Defense, Shelvin mac better.

625
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: He was a straight up dude in that game. Um,

626
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should have put two on the

627
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 1: ball with him. Um, you know, we we didn't shoot

628
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: the ball very well at all. We we played in

629
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 1: I think what's now n RG. I think the final

630
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: four is there this year in Houston, that was that

631
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: was the year that because of it. Remember the last

632
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: time they played in Houston was when Novo won at

633
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: the Buzzer against Carolina. But because the shooting was so

634
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: bad that people are like, oh you this this dome,

635
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: because it was it's a terrible setup right the middle

636
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: of this gigantic dome, all dark behind it makes it

637
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: look like the hoops are like five ft high. But

638
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: there was the thought that that arena or that stadium

639
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: caused people to shoot poorly because of your final four.

640
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: So so yeah, because the championship game was like, what

641
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: was it like forty something? A thirty something? Hum, But

642
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: we had made eleven threes a game in each of

643
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: our five wins, And so you asked what I would

644
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: do differently, kind of knowing what I know now, we

645
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: shot the ball pretty poorly from outside against Butler. Um,

646
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: I would have just really really over emphasized offensive rebound.

647
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: We didn't have the greatest offensive rebounding team, but we

648
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: I think you know, anytime you're missing threes, the number

649
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: one antidote is going to get the ball back, and

650
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: as we all know, a missed three can go anywhere. So, uh,

651
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 1: you know, I don't remember the exact number, do you?

652
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: But but okay, so here's a hard one with pressure.

653
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,720
Speaker 1: The hard one pressuring is you gotta have defensive balance.

654
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: When the ball goes in, you're pressing, right, So how

655
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: do you how do you have how do you have balance,

656
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: like when you're when you're pressing, how do you make

657
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: sure your guards you back when you gotta be up

658
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: in the press. Our guys were unbelievable at that UM

659
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 1: and and that team was pretty good. But you know

660
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: the subsequent VCU teams Briante whatever and some of those

661
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: guys later they were super human at being able to

662
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: do both. And I can't really tell you why. We

663
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: just practiced it. We worked on it um so it

664
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: wasn't a huge huge concern. I'm sure teams felt like

665
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: they could run on us, but we never felt like

666
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: it hurt us. What about in terms of the shooting

667
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: at it was reliant? Then what about the practice time,

668
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: like if you go back, because you know what happens

669
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: a lot of that practice time is nobody wants to

670
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: actually practice anymore. At the final four practice. It used

671
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: to be guys who put on full practice and would

672
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: be like a clinic. Now guys just go up there, dunk,

673
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: shoot and they go over to they go over to

674
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: another gym and they practice. Would you if you did

675
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: it again, would you spend all your time at the

676
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: arenage of student? Probably? So yeah, I mean we we

677
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: did a lot of shooting, but we probably should have

678
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: done even more try some fatigue that comes with it

679
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: as well. I think the number one thing two things.

680
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: One we were not playing a big name, but we

681
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: were playing a great team um. And then the second

682
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: thing being I think with all that we had accomplished, UM,

683
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: I think we maybe five didn't have quite the same edge.

684
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: So when you combine those two things and the fact

685
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: that we're playing a terrific Butler team Shelvin, Mack and

686
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 1: Howard played their butts off, UM, you know we came

687
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: up short. What is it like to to try and

688
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: regroup after that? After that, you know, you get done,

689
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: you win the game, you lose the game. Give me,

690
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: give me what's going on for you personally? Program? I'm

691
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: sure you're getting off their jobs as well. Right, What

692
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: what was that that those next couple of weeks like

693
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: in terms of regrouping, Well, first of all, the the

694
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: immediate aftermath is and I feel this way at the

695
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: end of any season where you really enjoy the group,

696
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: but obviously we had been on such an intense run

697
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: with that team is like a it's a really really

698
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 1: strong depression for a short amount of time, and I

699
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: don't want to say, I don't want to be little

700
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: you know depression that people have in the world. But

701
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's because again everybody

702
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: is different, but most of us we play and coach

703
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: because we just love being part of something special with

704
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: others where we can kind of lose ourselves and that

705
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: that that team ego or whatever you want to call it.

706
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: And then when you lose or or even if you

707
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: win your last game, it's it's over, and it's just

708
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: a it's very abrupt. So that was the first thing.

709
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: And then once you kind of get over that, you

710
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 1: start to kind of move on to what's next. Um Man,

711
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: I was never taking any job that year. I could

712
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: promise you that, like forget that. And I remember a

713
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: couple of our assistants I won't say their names. We're

714
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: like mad at me because I didn't want to take

715
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: a specific job and I was like, hey, listen, you

716
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: take whatever job you want to take. But this is

717
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna I'm gonna do what I want to

718
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: do and I want to be a VCU. But why

719
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 1: because the the the but like for you, the answer

720
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: like again for people outside, like you could double your

721
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: salary triple your salary. Right, there's always a limitation and

722
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: a v c U in people's minds. Why why did

723
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: you want to stay? Well? Number one, I never had

724
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: money when I was a kid, so I've never made

725
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 1: any any any big decision for money. Now it's it's

726
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: easy to say now. Um. Number two, I felt like

727
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: VCU was the place to me to be, Like I

728
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 1: genuinely felt that way, so I didn't really see the limitations.

729
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: And then number three, most importantly, I'm not leaving these

730
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: guys after we just went to the final four like that.

731
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: That's that's insane. We just went to the final four

732
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: together and we had Joey and some other guys Jamie

733
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: moving on, but we had probably I don't know seven

734
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 1: eight guys coming back, and it's like we just went

735
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 1: through this unbelievably intense experience together and then I'm gonna leave,

736
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, that's just foreign to me. I

737
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: know what happens, and I don't judge anyone else for

738
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: doing it, but that is completely foreign. Last one for

739
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 1: this this this part, Okay, how do you avoid the

740
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: Nasmith complex? And I don't know if you ever heard

741
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: that term. Okay, it's one that we gave to a

742
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: specific coach who had gone to the final four. And

743
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: you know, you go to the final four and Saddenly,

744
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: you're a genius. I know you genius, and everybody tells

745
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: you how great you are, and every gym you walk

746
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: into in the spring recruiting like you're the guy that

747
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: went to the final four, you're the you're young. Everybody

748
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: likes you. You play a different style, like they treat

749
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: you like you're somehow way smarter. Now then you were

750
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,839
Speaker 1: five games ago when you snuck into the term, six

751
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: games ago when you got in the tournament. How did

752
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: you personally avoid the ego trip that it is when

753
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: people start treating like you're James Nate Smith and you

754
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: invented the game. I think just the people around you.

755
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 1: In my case, you know, my wife, um my daughter

756
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: was born that that same year. You know, that's that's

757
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: the most humbling experience there is. Um. I also think

758
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: Doug the the one year I spent around Billy Donovan

759
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: was really helpful in that because he models that better

760
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: than anyone. I mean he you know, two time national champion,

761
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: all the great things that he's done, and he's always

762
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: like searching to get better and grow. And it always

763
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: struck me being around him, like you don't even know

764
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: that you're Billy Donovan man, Like you don't even know

765
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: the way that people feel about you. Um. So I

766
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: think being around him was a phenomenal example for me.

767
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: Um And I actually thought you meant a different complex,

768
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: which is, you know, one that's really really hard. Is

769
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: you just kind of feel like, well, we should do

770
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: it again, you know, every year, and just because you

771
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: have a team that maybe you line up on paper

772
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: and it's just as good or better or you know,

773
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: better on offense or better on defense than that team,

774
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work that way. And so that's, uh,

775
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, something you learned over the years. But for

776
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: former Marquette coach, and he's definitely different personality, Kevin O'Neill,

777
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: and I don't think he coined it. I've heard people

778
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: say he got it from Calipari or he got from

779
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: Larry Brown on whatever. But he would always say winning

780
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: is hard, Like winning is hard. It's just hard. It's

781
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: just it's a it's a very easy expression and it's

782
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: a very complex thing. But it's like like you planned

783
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: out I mean, how many teams have you had that

784
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: are better than that BCU team, right, Oklahoma State. I

785
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: can tell you my team was better than I think

786
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: the four Final four team was better than nine. But

787
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work that way. You know, Guys hurt,

788
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: guys in his feelings, Guys got something going on. You

789
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: screw up a rotation, guy gets into foul trouble. Like

790
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: a million different things can happen. And and then that's

791
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 1: not even to mention. Robbie Hummel was hurt when we

792
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 1: played per Due. You know, maybe if he plays it's different. Um,

793
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's we all are so kind of focused

794
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: on our own we don't even think about I mean

795
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: we my last year of Texas, we got upset in

796
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: the first round of the tournament. You just won the

797
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 1: Big ten, Big Tom, We just won the Big twelve tournament,

798
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: and U. C l A was somewhere there like we

799
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 1: I think we would have played them if we would

800
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: have won. They were first four, weren't they the first four?

801
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: That year? Is that the year they went to the

802
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: final four. This year they went to the final four

803
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: four But it you know, and people were picking us

804
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: to go to the final four that year, and man,

805
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: we had a bad game I mean we had we

806
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: had three terrific guards, Andrew Jones, Matt Coleman, Courtney Ramy.

807
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: I believe they combined for eighteen turnovers, like the three

808
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: of them. So it's like there's so many things and

809
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: you talk about like how you stay grounded as a coach.

810
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: You don't control you could do. You do your best.

811
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean, you do everything you can. But I think

812
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I've come to really really

813
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: enjoy about coaching is the challenge of learning to let

814
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: go of some of the things that you don't control.

815
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: How do you how do you, um, how do you

816
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: handle that with I don't know, fans, media bosses, pressure

817
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: in that people lose all perspective on the year you

818
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 1: actually had because the only thing that they can remember

819
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 1: is the final game. Yes, well blame Taylor, Who's I

820
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: think a really good coach to coach at Old Dominion.

821
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: When I was at VCU, he had this really there's

822
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: a rivalry VCU and Old Dominion. So he had this

823
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: kind of dry sense of humor and he would say

824
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: things and he was just such a likable guy that

825
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: he could kind of get away with saying, you know,

826
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: things that a jerk would say, but he's a great

827
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: guy here, and so he says, after we go to the

828
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: the final four, he made this comment. It was it's

829
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: really insightful. He said, the n c A tournament has

830
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 1: a way of making rock stars out of ordinary people.

831
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: And he was trying to kind of, you know, a

832
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: little bit of a slight on us, but at the

833
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: same time, like he's got a point, like our sport

834
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: is interesting because you could go thirty one and oh

835
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: in a regular season, even when your conference tournament. But

836
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you if you don't do this, then

837
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,879
Speaker 1: you know you looked at differently or like you said,

838
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: you can sneak in, you can just get in and

839
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: you can make a run, and you looked at a

840
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: certain way. Um, I don't know that's necessarily fair or right,

841
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: but that's just how it is. That is how it is.

842
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: All right, until next time. I appreciate it. You let

843
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 1: me know when you got a window. We'll keep moving down.

844
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: This stuff is this stuff is awesome. Thanks for joining me.

845
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: You got it man, Thanks for having me. That's that's

846
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: part three. Part four is comment, don't worry. Shock is

847
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: amazing with his time and uh, we're gonna get to Texas.

848
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna get to Marquette. We're gonna get to him now,

849
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: all in due time. Also a little note for you,

850
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,959
Speaker 1: we did a couple of hours with Tyler Hansbro That's

851
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: coming very very soon as well. Reminder, the Doug Gottlieb

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Speaker 1: Show is daily. It's three to five Eastern time, twelve

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Speaker 1: to two Pacific. We have a in the Bonus podcast,

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Speaker 1: which is really cool. Um a lot, a lot of

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Speaker 1: great stuff, but thank you so much for listening, and

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Speaker 1: obviously thank get a shot up for his time and

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Speaker 1: his honesty on Doug Godly, this is all ball