1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought you by Bank of America, Mary Lynch. Investing in 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: local communities, economies and a sustainable future. That's the power 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: of global connections, Mary Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: Member s I p C. Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm Tom Keene with David Gura. Daily we bring you 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: insight from the best of economics, finance, investment, and international relations. 7 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com, 8 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: and of course, on the Bloomberg Faster. Robert Gormaz joins 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: us now. As I said, the vice chair of Kissinger says, 10 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: it's great to see it, great to have you with us. 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: As always, let's start with the import of this trip, 12 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: the first trip of sitting president takes. It's always a 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: big deal. There's a sense that he is a fleeing 14 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: or escaping some of the drama in Washington on this 15 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: one as well. Does that make this trip easier in 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: a way he gets sort of wholly focused on on 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: what he's doing overseas or or is the drama in 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: Washington going to really distract from him? Do you think 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: while he's gone. I think it's a letter. I think 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: there's going to be continued drama and Washington, and not 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: only that. The drama and Washington makes a lot of 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: the foreign leaders with whom he'll be meeting a little 23 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: bit more concerned about his focus and about his staying power, 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: and about whether he's going to be able to take 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: the kind of leadership role in the Western world and 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: in the global economy and the global security order that 27 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: they would like to see. A present distracted at home 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: traditionally is able to spend less time, less energy, and 29 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: give less attention to global leadership. How ambitious is this itinerary. 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of people say, this is a 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: nine day trip, five stops, two big summits. That's a lot. 32 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: It's enormously ambitious, and he's going to be doing a 33 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: lot of things. I've gone on these long trips and 34 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: at the end of nine days, you're a You're tired, 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: and be your mind is sort of focused on so 36 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: many things it's hard to digest anything new. But I 37 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: think he has some very good advisors in the National 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: Security Council. Although the State Department, which normally plays a 39 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: major role in planning these trips, really except that the 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: top doesn't have very much leadership at this point, so 41 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: it makes it difficult. These are very intricately planned and 42 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,839 Speaker 1: run trips, and without full State Department participation, it makes 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: it a little more difficult. But the key point for him, 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: I think, is to understand he's going out among very 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: different cultures, Saudi Arabia in particular, the our world. He 46 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: has very little experience there. Yet it's critical that he 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: demonstrate American UH support for cooperation with these Gulf countries, 48 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: particularly Saudi but the other countries as well, and to 49 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: figure out that the right line and the right strategy. 50 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: If he wants to take a leadership role, he has 51 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: to have a clear strategy. He just can't chat with him. 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: He has to have a strategy. They have to believe 53 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: that it's helpful and they have to believe that he's 54 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: gonna stick to it. That's very important. What's the bubble like? 55 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: As he said, you've been on these trips before. This 56 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: is a president who avowedly likes to watch cable news, 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,679 Speaker 1: likes to be engaged with the with the zeitgeist. What's 58 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: going on, what people are saying about him? When you're 59 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: moving from city to city, from place to place, and 60 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: you're in this security bubble. How difficult is it to 61 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: keep apprized of what's happening not only in the country 62 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: around you, but in your home country many thousands of 63 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: miles away. Actually, that part is fairly easy with modern communications. 64 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: Presidents get briefed very very frequently while they're sitting in 65 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: their compartments on Air Force one on what the press 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: is saying about what they have said or done in 67 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: the previous country they visited, and what's going on in 68 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: the country that they're about to visit, so they'll he'll 69 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: be in close contact with what's going on. That's the 70 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: problem with the distraction, though, because he's going to be 71 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: trying to follow all these various convoluted events going on 72 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: here while he's on this trip and not being able 73 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: to focus as much time on the trip as he 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: should be. Robert Hormats with us with Kissinger Associates. Good 75 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: morning everyone. We've got a generous half hour with Ambassador 76 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: Hormats will talk about NATO here in our next section. 77 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: Because David Gurth too busy this morning to spend time 78 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: with me, he'll spend it with the important lead to 79 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: the Secretary, the Secretary General of NATO as well. I 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: would suggest Ambassador Hormats that the dearth of talent within 81 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: the Trump administration really comes home to play on these trips. 82 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Give us a vignette. You're on Air Force one. You've 83 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: figured out the food's lousy, the coffee subpar, you know, 84 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: the usual thing that the glamour's gone. You're the team, 85 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: except he doesn't have the team previous administrations have had. 86 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: How lonely is it without the correct staffing of State 87 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: and Defense. Well makes it a lot more difficult. As 88 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: you've correctly pointed out, the State Department has people on 89 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: the ground in all these countries. You need to rely 90 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: on them. You need to have ambassadors there. They have 91 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 1: very few ambassadors out there. They have very few people 92 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: at senior level in the State Department. So it makes 93 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: it much more difficult to plan the trips, and it 94 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 1: makes it much more difficult to get the kind of 95 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: information and judgments that you need from around the world 96 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: to implement what you want to do. And the other 97 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: problem is that they really don't have a highly developed 98 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: strategy development system in place yet. McMaster is a very 99 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: good guy, and he's Untilersen is a very good guy, 100 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: and there are many others matters as well, But you 101 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: need to have a national security natural product process that 102 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: organizes a strategy. And I want to I want to suggest, 103 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: and I don't, of course, would never put words in 104 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: your mouth, sir, that hormats got off the airplane exhausted 105 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: in some South American country at one point. I didn't 106 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: know where he was, didn't know what the city was, 107 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: and didn't know who he was meeting. And there was 108 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: some thirty three year old sheriff there that saved your 109 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: But is that person there to save the president of 110 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: the United States tale on an eight day trip. Well, 111 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: I always try to anticipate where I was going on 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: whatever moment by what the What these people on the 113 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: ground can do is bring you up to date with 114 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: events in real time, what's going on today, what happened 115 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,600 Speaker 1: last night, give you a very very current picture of 116 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: what's happening. So while you may have your strategy and 117 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: you may know what country you're in, you may know 118 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: who you're going to see, there's no substitute for having 119 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: very immediate on the ground input into your thinkings and 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: into what you say and what's going on in the country. 121 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: You have to have a real time understanding of that 122 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: and the State Department people on the ground. Do I 123 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: still think you'll be able to get that because there 124 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: are a good people on the ground, David, Girl, Did 125 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: you see how the ambassador sidestep my question of did 126 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: he ever wake up somewhere know where he was? He 127 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: was elegant on that. How do you approach summits like these? 128 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: You have a president here who in the last week 129 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: or so he said, you know, he wasn't sure of 130 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: how he was briefing some intelligence matters. A lot of 131 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: briefing goes into this. Uh, you stick to script at 132 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: these summits. How difficult is that for somebody who's new 133 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: to the job to figure out to do He has 134 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: to learn to stick to scripts. He has to learn 135 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: to read his in his his intelligence. He has to 136 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: learn to read his briefing papers and advance and absorb them. 137 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: And you just can't go into these summits and read 138 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: your documents. Some people do, But people want to know 139 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: you have command of the issues, not just that you're 140 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: reading something that someone's put in front of you, but 141 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: you have a command of the issues. You understand the 142 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: problems they're facing, You have a strategy for working with 143 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: them on those problems, and that you really believe in 144 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: these global institutions, you believe in a global economic order 145 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: traditionally led by the United States and other Western countries, 146 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: that you believe in a strong alliance, and that you're 147 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: going to do things at home internationally to implement those 148 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: They're going to be testing not just what he says, 149 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: but what he really thinks. Is he going to change 150 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: his mind, is he going to work with them, is 151 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: he going to listen to them? And if he wants 152 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: a strong America, he's got to have a strong alliance. 153 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: America is strong in part because it's strong in itself, 154 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: and it's part and in part for the last seven 155 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: years because it had strong and reliable allies. He's got 156 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: to demonstrate that he wants to maintain those allies. He 157 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: wants to maintain the global economic order because it's been 158 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: very good for the United States. Despite the anti globalization people, 159 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: global trade and finance have been very good for the 160 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: United States and for air Alliance. David Garrett and Tom 161 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: Keene in New York. This is Bloombergs Valance on Bloomberg 162 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: Radio with Ambassador Robert Hormance, the vice chair of Kissinger 163 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: associates will get to NATO in just a sec I'll 164 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: take advantage of you being here to prep a little 165 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: bit from my interview coming up in a at a thirty. 166 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: But let me ask you first about the Belt and 167 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: Road for him. We saw in Beijia last week a 168 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: big event for the Chinese President, his vision for what 169 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: China is going to do, the role it's going to 170 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: play globally. It was at the day Tight Guest State guesthouse. 171 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: We saw President Vladimir Putin playing the piano there before 172 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: we do with the Chinese President. What was your takeaway 173 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: from it? What's China trying to to do here? What's 174 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: your perspective on China's ambitions. It's global ambitions of visa 175 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: via this program. Well in terms of scope and in 176 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: terms of the breadth of the initiative and the depth 177 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: initieve this is equivalent to the Marshall Plan UH seven 178 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: years earlier. And it's in part about strengthening Chinese ties 179 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: in the region in Southeast Asia and Central Asia and elsewhere. 180 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: But it has a broader objective as well, and that 181 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: is to strengthen Chinese ties and Chinese connectivity with Europe. 182 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 1: It sees Europe as a big market, it sees Europe 183 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: as a source of new technology. And if you look 184 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: at the old Silk Road, it was really between Europe 185 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: and China. It went through Central Asia, went through other 186 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: parts of the world, but that was it. And I 187 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: think China's goal, China's scope, China's ambitions are to strengthen 188 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: ties with Europe, and this infrastructure build out is one 189 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: way of doing it. Also, of course, it strengthens their 190 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: role in Asia. And since the United States has dropped 191 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: out of the t PP, China will be influencing the 192 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: development of rules in the region with its own trade agreement, 193 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: the rs e P, and therefore that will not be 194 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: helpful to American companies. It's not any American, but it 195 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: certainly is going to instill rules in the region that 196 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: are somewhat different and less conducive to American interests than 197 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: the t p P would have been. This NATO, somebody's 198 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: coming up on the next week, and we've heard mixed 199 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: messages from this administration about native The President spoke at 200 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: the U S. Coast Guard Academy this week. He said, quote, 201 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: I will strengthen old friendships and seek new partners but 202 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: partners who also help us, not partners who take, take 203 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: and take. He has been almost singly focused on funding 204 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: for defense when it comes to NATO allies. How is 205 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 1: that rhetoric going to play out when all of these 206 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: leaders gather in Brussels next week. Other administrations have been 207 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: encouraging the Europeans to devote two percent of their GDP 208 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: to defense, and I think that is a reasonable thing 209 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to do. On the other hand, I think he underestimates 210 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: dramatically the role that many NATO countries are already playing 211 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 1: in support of American interests. After nine eleven, NATO invoked 212 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: Oracle five, they all joined the United States and said, 213 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 1: if there's an attack on the United States, it means 214 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: and effect, there's an attack on us, and we're gonna 215 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: work with you in Afghanistan and elsewhere. So NATO troops, 216 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: NATO country troops have been very actively involved in various 217 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: parts of the world, fighting alongside of American troops. He 218 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: needs to understand that. He also needs to understand that 219 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,359 Speaker 1: if he wants to have a strong role in reducing 220 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: the incursions of Putin, not just into Iran and into Europe, 221 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: into what Eastern Europe, particularly the Ukraine, but also the 222 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: risks that could occur in the Baltics. So he's got 223 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: to work with NATO, strengthen NATO, strengthened cooperation in you 224 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: and and Putin's goal is to divide countries in Europe, 225 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: support right wing populos parties, divide them internally, divide Europe 226 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: in terms of the EU, and divide Europe from the 227 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: United States. And he has to demonstrate that he understands 228 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: Putin's objectives and he wants to strengthen cooperation with Europe, 229 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: strengthened European countries, and strengthened the EU. That's in America's interests. 230 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: He's got to get that. Robert Hormance, thank you so much. 231 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: We're out of time. Next time you're on for four 232 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: Jack Tucker, make a note, next time Bob Hormance is 233 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: on for four hours, let's just make him, you know, 234 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: the host of the he's going to replace anybody. But 235 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: you know they say that the administrations in hr disaster, 236 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: but then that explains keep it up, John Tucker, Ambassador Wance, 237 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much, just in particularly after this, thank you, 238 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: this this historic week and onward. Is it's really David, 239 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: this interview. You're doing today, it could could be better. Time. 240 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: Very grateful between the domestic week and the four and 241 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: week to come. David Gurrow with the Secretary General of NATO, 242 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: looked for that and the next hour this is Bloomberg. 243 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: This is a real treat. Luigi's in Gallis with us. 244 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: We spoke to the professors in Galis of Booth School 245 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: earlier about American investment. I think, David and honor of 246 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: your NATO discussion, we should go to Italy. Yeah, and 247 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: then Mr Trump traverses Italy. He'll be there for this 248 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: for the Street seven summit. We saw the Prime Minister 249 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: of Italy meeting with the Russian president earlier this week. 250 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: Give us some context you the role that Italy is 251 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: playing on the European stage, in the world stage right now, 252 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: unfortunately plays the role of the troublemaker. That Europe is 253 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: doing well these days, there is a recovery. The recovery 254 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: is getting stronger. Um in France McCown on the presidential election. 255 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: Everything seems to go on the right way except Italy. Um. 256 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: Italy is still doing poorly economically as a very large 257 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: debt that is kept a bay by quantity vizing. But 258 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: if this were to finish then will create problems and 259 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: it's politically unstable. Is due for an election by February, 260 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: and at the moment the leading part in the polls 261 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: is kind of h a Populace party UM run by 262 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: Papaguilla so um, and we don't know his ability to 263 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: form a government to government country. If you think that 264 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has inexperience, wait for Papaguilla. How much connective 265 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: tissue is there as you see it between the politics 266 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: and all of these these countries. So we saw Populace 267 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: and perhaps held back in France you could say that 268 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: I'll put those words in your mouth. But is there 269 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: something that is there a line that runs between the 270 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: UK and France and Italy when it comes to the 271 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: particular brand of politics. I think there are certainly some 272 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: element in common, even if the situation, of course are different. 273 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: I think that the overwhelming fact is that the growth 274 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: that has benefited some, especially in the US and the UK, 275 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: is not being boldly shared. And in Italy this growth 276 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: has not even existed, so the situation is even worse. 277 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: And UH and I think that when you combine in 278 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: UH dismal economic performance with a generalized perception of corruption. 279 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: I think that you have all the elements for some 280 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: populace reaction. I think that my surprise has been how 281 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: sort of tamed this has been so far, not how 282 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: strong it has been. And yes, has has been sort 283 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: of kept back in France, but we have to say 284 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: almost by by luck, because if three percent switched in 285 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: the first round, we would have had a le Pin 286 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: Melanchon second round. That was pretty scary. Is the growth 287 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: distribution in Europe like in the United States? Is the 288 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: inequal is the inequality or the advantage of growth going 289 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: to too few? I think he's less pronounced in the States. 290 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: But also the growth has been lower. So when it 291 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: comes to the substance, is how many people are better 292 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: off today than twenty years ago, thirty years ago, the numbers, 293 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: at least for Italy even worse because the growth has 294 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 1: been a little existent. David, I think Greg Villier, who 295 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: has been such a good help to us, writes one 296 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: of his most cogent notes ever, this morning Up moments ago, 297 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: and he begins with Peggy Noonan's Wall Street Journal weekend column, 298 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: democracy is not Your plaything? With his Luigis and Gallis 299 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: with a terrific perspective out of Chicago on the American economy, 300 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: American capitalism, and maybe this strange thing called democracy. How 301 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: swampy is the swamp, Luigi? And will it slow economic growth? 302 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: I think the swamp is very swampy, and yes, he 303 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: does uh US economic growth. And I think there were 304 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: great expectations that President Trump will do something about it, 305 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: and so far we've not seen much action on that front. 306 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: What what could he do? He talks an awful lot 307 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: about the process of draining said swamp. He hasn't made 308 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: much progress doing that. You look at his cabinet. There 309 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: are a lot of people there you could argue have 310 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: added to the swamp nous of of of Washington. What 311 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,199 Speaker 1: would you counsel him to do to to make the 312 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: place a little less super, a little less swampy. First 313 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: of all, I think I will bring back a bit 314 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: of anti trust enforcement. I think that um at Chicago 315 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: at a conference where I interview Judge Poulsner, who is 316 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: the probably the world expertment trust, and he said very 317 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: bluntly that anti trust his dad that he was nominated 318 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: judge by Ronald Reagon in eighty two. Expecting to see 319 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: a lot of cases, and he's so almost none. So 320 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: I think time has come to be more aggressive on 321 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: that front. What else did the Judge Posner say about 322 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: the shape of the judiciary, the shape of the regulatory 323 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: landscape right now? I think of him as somebody who's 324 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: so prolific and so frank about the state of the 325 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: American judiciary. What did he have to say? Actually, first 326 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: of all, I don't know whether I'm giving his coup. 327 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: But he's coming up with a new book about pretty 328 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: soon the se if it gets longer, yes, and it 329 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: is not a flattering books the judiciary. So that that's 330 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: the problem. Number one Luigi in the in the Peggy Noon, 331 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: and she is a single sentence, which on a Friday 332 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: is really important. Why is the president never careful? Our 333 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: businesses now too careful? Is our diminished nominal GDP such 334 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: that business and finance is too careful in this age? 335 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's because they're too careful. I 336 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: think is because they don't see a big incentive to invest. 337 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: I think that part of the story is that most 338 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: of their return to investment is not due to expansion, 339 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: but is due to the market power that they have, 340 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: and so they don't want to compete against themselves by 341 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: investing more. That's the reason why I think that adding 342 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: is stronger antitrust will actually per investments because it was 343 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: per competition. What should we make of this news the 344 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: President going to Saudi Arabia first because the country was 345 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: able to inc a big weapons deal with the help 346 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: of Jared Kushner, senior advisor to the present son in 347 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: law of the president as well. Do that raise any 348 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: red flags to you as you look at the role 349 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: of the industry in particular in the U S and globally. Uh. Yeah. 350 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: I think that the way Donald Trump is using his 351 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: family as advisor where minds of less developed countries, where 352 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: you have this sort of family power that extends, I 353 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: don't think is a good sign for the US economy. 354 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,199 Speaker 1: To be honest. On the other side, we didn't have 355 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: much better and this is the The Clinton family is 356 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: another sort of very powerful family with all the connections. 357 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: So I think, unfortately, this is a sign of the time, 358 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: sign of how much the US economy as the generated 359 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: into a chronic capitalist economy. Is a great piece in 360 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week this week by our editor in chief 361 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: John Michel Thwaite. He posits, you know, if you were 362 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: to look at President Trump is a CEO, would you 363 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: keep him on light ball? That's happened here. I'll let 364 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: less there's give it a read. But by the point 365 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: that he makes as well is that if if a 366 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: CEO were misspeaking, saying untruths, he would be called to 367 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: account by the chairman of his board in many cases. 368 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: And here we kind of draw draw the analogy out. 369 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: Maybe Mitch McConnell, the Senate Majority leader, would be the 370 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: equivalent of a chairman. Does he need to take a 371 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: bigger role if there need to be more of a 372 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: voice elsewhere in government, elsewhere in the Republican Party keeping 373 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: this president in check? I think that, yes, the Republican 374 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: Party is being missing in action in doing the role 375 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: of keeping the president in check. Now, I think that 376 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: to be honest, I'm not I don't have any sympathy 377 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: for Trump, but there he is in a lot of 378 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: attention again in trying to find him and catch him 379 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: in mistakes, which happens to every new president, but particularly 380 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: a new president is not very apolo with the media. 381 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: So I think that's a bit too much of an attention. 382 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: But certainly Donald Trump is is not very smooth in 383 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: the way he sort of behaves and and but I 384 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: think that besides the appearances, I think that the substances 385 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: what what war is off a sense of what his 386 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: messages to to business, you can look at his cabinet, 387 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: you can look at who he's appointed, who he's hired, 388 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: who he's met with it at the White House. Can 389 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: you crystallize what his message to business leaders is? Yes, 390 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: I think his messages has changed quite a bit. When 391 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: he was a candidate, he was flirting with more sort 392 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: of populist issues or ideas, and when he became president, 393 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: I think he turned into a very pro business not 394 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: necessarily poor market, but the pro business president. Is it 395 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: a gilded age? You addressed the junior books where I 396 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: think great understanding of American history is that all we're 397 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 1: dealing with here is we've got a president who's part 398 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 1: of the guild of age. Absolutely. I think that my 399 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: book now is five years old, believe it or not, 400 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: and I think that thank you for me. No, no, 401 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: but I think that is still I'm actually surprised how 402 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: right I was in a sense I anticipated some of 403 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: the themes that were present the last campaign and still 404 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: present today. I think that the is a long time 405 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 1: trend and we have not found a president like Theodore 406 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: Roosevelt backing this frend. Circle back to investment again. We 407 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: began our conversation earlier this morning on the animal spirit. 408 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: If we've got diminished yields, if we've got a diminished 409 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: view on inflation, if the United Kingdom has flat wage growth, 410 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the reflation once again, maybe it's not happening. And there's 411 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: beautiful charts that show that disappointment for ten years. Have 412 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: you been surprised by that? I think he's uh, yeah, 413 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: I have to admit a bit surprised. I have been. 414 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: Even if given we were covering in the United States 415 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: from a major financial crisis, this is not unusual. I 416 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: think that the next few years would be cushing that 417 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: dimension because the fact that after I fin ential crisis 418 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: that we use as loaded cavery, there's a tendency to 419 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: our of deflation, et cetera. This is uh totally normal. 420 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: But now we have turned page and if we don't 421 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: see we are growth now, then it's a bigger problem. 422 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: Luiches and Goals, thank you so much for joining us 423 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: with the Boosh School. Chicago this morning, on Italy, on 424 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: his Italy, and of course on um Swamp. We've got 425 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: a major crisis, folks, major surveillance crisis, at least for 426 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: my desk, David Gura. Twitter is down. Twitter's down, and 427 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: I might suggest this is presidential prime time, So you 428 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: really wonder how this is going. I don't know where 429 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: the president is right now, John Tucker. Is he's not 430 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: on the airplane yet? Is he no? This afternoon? This afternoon, 431 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 1: something is technically wrong. The website tells me, right, something okay, 432 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: But you're right, you raise a good question. We joke 433 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: about this, but I am curious if he's going to 434 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: be tweeting throughout the trip. And you know, there are 435 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people who were grateful for the pause 436 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: after the announcement of that special counsel that the president 437 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: was not tweeting in the immediate aftermath. Of course, he 438 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: shattered that silence yesterday during surveillance with those two tweets, 439 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: including the one declaring it to be the greatest which 440 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: hunt in American political history. And I must say the 441 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: congressman representing Salem, Massachusetts, had a great retort. He said, 442 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: judging from his position, he could say that is in 443 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: fact not the case. There are there are other examples 444 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: in American history where the witch hunts it back Salem, 445 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: and I look at that literature. Salem is a very 446 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: spiritual place, particually might point out at night walking around 447 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: Elder's Jerry's a little town. Is something more weight here, 448 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: very very annointing, Lily, Do you realize I've got through 449 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: the week without talking about the Red Sox that's true 450 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: or the Celtics And there's well, the Celtics are doing 451 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: better than the good brought to you by Bank of America. 452 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: Mary Lynch. Dedicated to bringing our clients insights and solutions 453 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: to meet the challenges of a transforming world. That's the 454 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: power of global connections. Mary Lynch, Pierce, Feeder and Smith 455 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: Incorporated Member s I p C. There's something new from Bloomberg. 456 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,679 Speaker 1: It's called Lens. Starting right now, you can use the 457 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg iOS app off your iPhone or iPad, or our 458 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: new Google Chrome extension to read any news story on 459 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: any website, scan it, and then instantly see the news 460 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: stories relevant market data from Bloomberg. In addition, see all 461 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: the bios of the key people mentioned in the story. 462 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: It's called lens, and it is just that, a lens 463 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: into the people and the data of any story you 464 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: may be reading. Again, Lens brings you the power of 465 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's news and data. Download or io s app or 466 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: search for the Bloomberg extension at the Chrome Store to 467 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: try lens out. Learn more at bloomberg dot com slash Lens. 468 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: President Trump embarks on his first official overseas trip today. 469 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: His first stop is in Riad, and from there he'll 470 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: travel with Tel Aviv, Rome and Brussels, where he'll participate 471 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: in a NATO summit. The President has been critical of 472 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: the alliance and of the financial commitments member states have 473 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: made to it in particular, and that will be one 474 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: subject of debate at the meeting, which my next guest 475 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: will oversee. NATO Secretary General Yan Stoltenberg joins me now 476 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: from Brussels, and there are, as I understand it's are 477 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: two big agenda items at this summit, burden sharing, what 478 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: countries contribute to NATO and counter terrorism. Let's take them 479 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: in kind. The U s Secretary of State says he 480 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: wants to see these countries make their commitments by the 481 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: end of the year. Were outlined plans to get there 482 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: by the end of the year. How feasible is that? 483 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: Do you think how reasonable an expectation is that that's 484 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: absolutely feasible because we are now discussing concrete proposals on 485 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 1: how we can agree on the concept of national plans 486 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: outlining how the different natural allies are going to make 487 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: good on the promise they all made back in two 488 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: thousand and fourteen to stop the cuts in defense spending 489 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: and then gradually increase and then moved towards spending two 490 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: percent of GDP on defense. And we have already seen 491 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: that natural Allies have actually started to increase defense spending. 492 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: They still have a long way to go, but turned 493 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: the corner and started to move in the right direction. 494 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: There is so much on NATO is played at this point. 495 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: There's a migrant crisis, there's the issue of counter terrorism. 496 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: How frustrated are you that's so much focus has to 497 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: be on funding that we are talking so much here 498 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: about how NATO defense is funding. Defense spending. Funding is 499 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: critical because we need the funds to finance all the 500 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: different activities we do as the nions, and NATO has 501 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: to provide both what we call collect the defense in 502 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: Europe responding to a more asserted Russia illegally annexing Crimea 503 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: and de stabilizing eastern Ukraine. But we also need to 504 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: play a part of the fight against the terrorism, stabilize 505 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: our neighborhood, and to do so, we need to invest 506 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: more in defense. After the end of the Cold War, 507 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: NATO allies reduce defense spending. And that's absolutely understandable because 508 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: when tensions are going down, it's possible to reduce defense spending. 509 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: But now tensions are increasing again, and then we have 510 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: to be able to increase defense spending. Here, the President 511 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: United States spoke to the US Coast Guard Academy this week. 512 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: He said quote, I will strengthen old friendships and seek 513 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: new partners, but partners who also help us, not partners 514 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: who take and take and take. I don't have to 515 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: do two in depth. And next to Jesus there to 516 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: interpret that he was talking a out NATO. How damaging 517 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: is that kind of rhetoric when you hear that? Well, 518 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: Preston Trump has clearly stated to me in several conversations 519 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: last when we met in the White House in April 520 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: last month, that he has strongly committed to NATO and 521 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: that has also been a message from his security team, 522 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: from the Vice President, from Secretary matthis tellusion and McMaster 523 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: and this is a commitment which we don't only see 524 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: in words, but also indeeds, because the United States is 525 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: now increasing its military presence in Europe for the first 526 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: time in many, many years. At the same time, all 527 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: allies understand that we need a fair burden sharing, and 528 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: that's also reason why twenty eight allies agreed that also 529 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: are spending less than two percent of GDP on events 530 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: have to increase, and they have started to move in 531 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: the right direction. What are you hoping to hear from 532 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: the President of the United States this week when he 533 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: speaks to to you and allies gathered in Brussels. I 534 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: hope and I expect that he will reiterate his uh 535 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: strong commitment to NATO, but also of course his expectation 536 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: that NATO should do more in the fight against terrorism 537 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: and also invest more in in in defense. And I 538 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: expect so because that has been his message since the elections, 539 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: and also because strong NATO it's not only good for Europe, 540 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: but the strong NATO is also very important for the 541 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,360 Speaker 1: United States. Two World wars and the Cold War have 542 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: thought Thos that stability in Europe, it's also important for 543 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: prosperity and security in North America. And we have to 544 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: remember that the only time NATO has invoked our Article five, 545 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: our Collective Defense Class, was after an attack on the 546 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: United States nine eleven, two thousand and one, and we 547 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: have been engaged in Afghanistan, our biggest military ration, as 548 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: a direct response to an attack on the United States. 549 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: There is a piece in Foreign Policy magazine I want 550 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: you to respond to it alleged this summit is going 551 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: to be different because of the participation of President Trump. 552 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: The speeches are going to be shorter, they're going to 553 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: be limited, that there won't be a detailed declaration to 554 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: follow the summit. Can you confirm that those two changes 555 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: are in fact being made, and if they are being made, 556 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: it's because the participation of President Trump. It's totally wrong 557 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: the whole story, because this meeting is a normal meeting. 558 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: It's conducted and organized in exactly the same way as 559 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: we organize and and conductor on the NATO meetings, although 560 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: summits and other administerial meetings. It's true that it's not 561 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: not going to be a community or a public statement, 562 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: but that was also the case when we had a 563 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: similar meeting UH when George brush Will also newly elected 564 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: a president back in two thus than one. Because this 565 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: is not a full fledged NATAL summit. This is a 566 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: meeting where we have a new US president meeting all 567 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: the other NATE leaders. But it will be an important 568 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,719 Speaker 1: meeting focused meeting because we will focus on burden sharing, 569 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: defense investments, and on what more NATO can do to 570 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: fight UH terrorism attacking with the Native Secretary General Jan 571 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: Stoneberg here on Bloomberg Television and Bloomberg Radio. Defense ministries 572 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: were gathered in Brussels earlier this week and they discussed 573 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: NATO possibly joining the coalition fighting the Islamic State. Do 574 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: you expect that issue is going to be resolved by 575 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: the conclusion of this summit? On the NATO all that 576 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: it provides support to the collision fighting dies or isisle. 577 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: We provide support with our a Wax surveillance planes and 578 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,719 Speaker 1: we train Iraqi forces. The question is whether NATO can 579 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: do even more UH and also whether NATO UH should 580 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: join the coalition be a formal member of the collision. 581 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: Some allies are strongly advocating that because it will be 582 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: a strongly especial political support and will also increase our 583 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: ability to coordinate with all the Native allies that are 584 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: all the member of their lines. So there's an issue 585 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: which is now discussed and I expect decisions to be 586 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: made UH soon. How big a concern is intelligent sharing? 587 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: Is that a hurdle for some allies, especially in light 588 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,399 Speaker 1: of the meeting we've heard reported about at the White 589 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: House in which the President revealed some sensitive information to 590 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: the Russian ambassador to the US into the Russian Foreign Minister. 591 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: Intelligence sharing is an important part of the NATO corporation, 592 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: and I appreciate that NATO allies and especially not these 593 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 1: states are sharing intelligence with NATO and all the allies 594 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: almost every day, and that is very important for the 595 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: strength of natal UH. And I'm confident that all the 596 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: Native Allies are able to handle the the intelligence they 597 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: received from all the allies and from partners. The United 598 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: States is weighing sending more military prison to Afghanistan, the 599 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: expectation being that NATO would match whatever the US were 600 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: at this end, the US saying it plans to make 601 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: a decision on that after this meeting concludes next week. 602 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: If they do decide to send more troops to Afghanistan. 603 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: How quickly could NATO react in kind? So we can 604 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: react quite quickly, but first we have to decide on 605 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: how many troops we are going to have their We 606 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: have approximately thirteen thousand troops now UH in Afghanistan. Half 607 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: of them approximately half of them are U S troops 608 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: and the other half of our European, Canadian and coming 609 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: from partner countries. And we are now discussing whether we 610 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: should have an increase, not very big increase, but an 611 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: adjustment of the force levels. Again, I expect decisions to 612 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: be taking in the coming weeks. What is clear is 613 00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: that we will continue our military presence train mission in 614 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan UH, and then we are looking into whether 615 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: there's a need for some increase in the troop levels. 616 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,479 Speaker 1: Last question here, there is a huge ransomware attack last week, 617 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: as you know, there was interference in the US presidential election. 618 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: Imagine cybersecurity is becoming a bigger concern for you at NATAL. 619 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: What is your greatest concern when it comes to cybersecurity 620 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: and NATO's positioning to combat it. The cyber threats is 621 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: something threats are something we need to take really seriously 622 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: because we have seen more sophisticated, more intense, and more 623 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: higher numbers are more and more higher frequency of cyber 624 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: attacks against NATAL Alliance and against NATAL networks, and therefore 625 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: NATO is responding by significantly increasing our cyber defense capabilities. 626 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: We have also decided that cyber attacks can trigger what 627 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: we call Article five, our collective defense calls, so an 628 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: attack a cyber attack can be regardless than tack on 629 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 1: all allies. We are also now establishing cyber as a 630 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: military domain, meaning that we will have air, sea, land, 631 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: and cyber as military as I say, operational domains. And 632 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: then we also support allies to help them improve their 633 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 1: cyber defenses with joint exercises with the Central Excellence in 634 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: Talent where we share technology best practices and we always 635 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: have to adapt and change because the cyber threat is 636 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: constantly changing, so we had to be ready to respond. 637 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: And that's also what we did last Friday where we 638 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: warned all allies on the Mountain cyber attack we saw 639 00:37:45,440 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: last weekend. This is maybe the best time to interview, 640 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: to get back to the soul of what Washington used 641 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: to do. David, why don't you bring interesteam guest the ambassador. Yeah, great, 642 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,720 Speaker 1: to have the ambassador Max Box is with a former 643 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: senator of course, said from the great state of Montana 644 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: joining us now, Ambassador Box is great to have you 645 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,680 Speaker 1: with us here. Let me get your reaction first of all, 646 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,440 Speaker 1: what we've seen over the last week in Washington. Imagine 647 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: you couldn't be happier to be two thousand plus miles 648 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: away in Bozeman. H Are you happy with with where 649 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,800 Speaker 1: we are now that the naming of a special counsel? 650 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: Do you think that that's going to quiet the concern 651 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: over this investigation? I do. I'm I'm quite pleased that 652 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: special Council has been named for several reasons why it's 653 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: going to tend to calm things down a little bit, 654 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: because now there's order is respect to um the reader, 655 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: which the President may or may not have a compromised 656 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: the White House with the thrash, but the other hand 657 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: on the other But in addition to that, I I 658 00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: like this because it's the rule of law is beginning 659 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: to take hold of word a country of of laws, 660 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,719 Speaker 1: and we now do have a special prosecutor who, under 661 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: the law is going to determine the facts. You know, 662 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: is there an obstruction of justice or not? And that's 663 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: good Investador Marcus. If I go into the Nova Cafe 664 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: in Bozeman, Montana and get a decent breakfast, is all 665 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: that's going on in your belt way? Do people care 666 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: across this country or is it just an East Coast 667 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 1: media frenzy. Well that's a good question. Um, it's um, 668 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of both. Um. They are kind 669 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: of a shrug. They are concerned, don't like all that's 670 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: going on, But to a large degree, many of them 671 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: thinking that's kind of well, that's Washington, you know, not 672 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: just what they do back there. They get all hot 673 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: and bothered about things back there, and they just don't 674 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,280 Speaker 1: take care of us, spend time thinking about our issues. 675 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: So I I think a lot of people of the 676 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: Nova Cafe are you know, don't pay a lot of 677 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 1: attention to always They do a little, but not as 678 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: much as we'd like to think they should. Um, those 679 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,120 Speaker 1: of us were very involved in the policy. Oh that's Washington. 680 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: How do we get back to a different definition. How 681 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,960 Speaker 1: do we get back to a different Washington, one that 682 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 1: I would imagine inspired you to run for office and 683 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: decide to take up camp there for for a while. 684 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: How far are we from those days. Well, we've drifted 685 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,760 Speaker 1: away for a long time. Um. I was in the 686 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 1: Senate forty years, including the House representatives, three or six 687 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: four in the House, and it's over time. You could 688 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: just feel slowly, um, just members of the Senate's dryfting apart, 689 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: which is not spend a lot of time together. I 690 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: think there are a lot of factors here. Um. One 691 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: is TV in the Senate, and other just advances and 692 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: communications technologies which are at once aggregating but also does 693 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,360 Speaker 1: aggregating because we in the Senate which speak directly to 694 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: the cameras into the country, and little less to each 695 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:07,359 Speaker 1: other in the in the Senate. And then obviously redistressing 696 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: is hurt a little bit um. And social media, the 697 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: rise of social media. Yet all together and we just 698 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: we're not what we once were. And for some reason, 699 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: the people, in my judgment is a bit presumptuous who 700 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 1: get elected these days are more inclined to to push 701 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: their narrow view than they are to listen to somebody 702 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: else in the body to try to figure out a compromise. 703 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: How should the Democrats respond to all that we've seen 704 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,359 Speaker 1: this week? What is your advice to those that they're 705 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: on the firing line. They've got to make the responses, 706 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: they've got to talk to the book. But Max Bok is, 707 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: what should Democrats do after what we observe this week? Well, Um, 708 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,279 Speaker 1: keep cool, keep calm, um, and and and focus on 709 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: what people really care about. That tends to be jobs, 710 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: that tends to be tends to be their kids and education. 711 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: And you know people are basically the same almost worldwide. 712 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: They want decent income, flu at the table, um and uh, 713 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,680 Speaker 1: clean air, clean water, decent healthcare. And we should just 714 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: do that, um. And the more we do and stay 715 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: away from a lot of the stuff in Washington, gradually, Um, 716 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,160 Speaker 1: the message there's people care about, we'll sinking. That's your 717 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: optimism for their being policy change less than after what 718 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,239 Speaker 1: we've seen over these last few weeks. Uh, you had 719 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: some optimism that we would see some progress on policy 720 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. How big a distraction is what we've 721 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: seen unfold here over the last couple of weeks. How 722 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 1: much is that going to detract from work on Capitol Hill? 723 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,839 Speaker 1: Why don't get attracts significantly? Um? Even though committees are 724 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: holding hearings, are trying to hold hearings at cuas means 725 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 1: that when there to ago. Still everyone everyone walking out 726 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: of that hearing room is going to be asked by 727 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,760 Speaker 1: a reporter his her reactions to the latest of scandal 728 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: of the day. And that's that's very distracting. Um, it's 729 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: some complete ease. Frankly that we not a special prosecutor, 730 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: which I think in the Tampa all that down. I 731 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: don't Ambassador, did you walk across China in your term? No, 732 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,320 Speaker 1: but I did visit all the provinces and I arrived. 733 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,319 Speaker 1: When I arrived and when I presented my credentials to 734 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: a president Jejan Paing, I told him I was going 735 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,439 Speaker 1: to visit all the provinces, and every time I saw 736 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:30,479 Speaker 1: him held check on me nature that I'm still visiting them. 737 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: That was very important to visit the province. Tell us 738 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: about the vacuum that the Americans have given the Chinese 739 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: to rebuild their proverbial and storied road. Well, on my judgment, 740 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 1: I think it's a big vacuum. The biggest geopolitical issue 741 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,919 Speaker 1: to cross my desk when I was over there three 742 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: years was trans specific partnership. That was so important to 743 00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: establish America's position in that part of the world, and 744 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: it's so important to me. In fact, I get on 745 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,759 Speaker 1: a plane on my own, flew back to Washington and 746 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: met with fifty different members of the House decided for 747 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: one full week on that issue alone, both bodies, both 748 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: political parties. It was during the couple of weeks, a 749 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,240 Speaker 1: couple of months before the election, promoting and urging Members 750 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,240 Speaker 1: of Commerce to pass it. And I could tell pretty 751 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: soon that by the body language of almost every member 752 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: I talked to it it was not going to go anywhere. 753 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,759 Speaker 1: But it's but we we it's by not passing it, 754 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: we're just giving, my judgment m A, China a huge 755 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: opportunity to step in and take advantage of our absence. 756 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,680 Speaker 1: Many ambassadors in Southeast Asian countries would talk to me 757 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,239 Speaker 1: and say to me, you know, almost plead with me 758 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: for America to pass t PP because that would enable 759 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: of those countries to push back a little more easily 760 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: against China, because we're present there and our absence will 761 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: make it for definite off for those companies to push back. 762 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: I guess Chinese political pressures, even military pressures, economic pressures, 763 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: um and add to that all the all the actions 764 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,880 Speaker 1: China's undertakings, not just one bill one road, which is 765 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: massive but there's something called the AIB. There's something else 766 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,320 Speaker 1: called ours up. Tryan's got a vision, trans got a problem. 767 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: I take my head off to them. Frankly, ambassador out 768 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: of time. We look forward to getting a brief from 769 00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,160 Speaker 1: from you again. He's smarter than us. He's in Bozeman, Montana. 770 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: Max Buchust years, big trout and really enjoy Yeah, I 771 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: really enjoyed talking with the Senator from Montana. Thanks for 772 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Subscribe and listen to 773 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast platform you prefer. 774 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene. David Gura is at 775 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: David Gura. Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide. 776 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: I'm Bloomberg Radio, brought you by Bank of America Mary Lynch, 777 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,879 Speaker 1: dedicated to bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet 778 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 1: the challenges of a transforming world. That's the power of 779 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: global connections. Mary Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Incorporated, Member 780 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:35,800 Speaker 1: s I p C.