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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told your production of Art Radio. Today, we

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Speaker 1: are once again joined by our good friend and colleague,

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Speaker 1: Bridget Todd. We're so excited to have you as always, Bridget.

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Speaker 1: I love hanging out with you all. This is one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite things to do to start my weekend.

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Speaker 1: So excited because we do normally record these on Fridays.

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Speaker 1: You're right, Oh, yeah, it's Fridays or Monday, so yeah, uh,

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Speaker 1: nice bookends, nice bookings. No, it's one of our very

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Speaker 1: very favorite things as well. And we're both Samantha and

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Speaker 1: I are both very excited with the topic you chose

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Speaker 1: because we've been talking about it lately. So yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: dive right in. What topic did you bring for us today, Bridget? So,

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Speaker 1: I'm super excited to talk about my new favorite social

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Speaker 1: media platform. I'm gonna call it my new problematic faith,

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Speaker 1: and that is TikTok. I have to ask, are y'all

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Speaker 1: on TikTok both like a pause? I am not, but

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Speaker 1: I have a good friend shout out Marissa, who is

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Speaker 1: very active on it, and she sends me TikTok's that

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Speaker 1: she thinks I will enjoy, which I will be honest

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Speaker 1: are mostly very nerdy. TikTok's like cosplay related a lot

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Speaker 1: of like Star Wars and Marvel stuff, So that is

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Speaker 1: my experience, but I am not officially on it no, right,

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Speaker 1: so I am not either even from the jump, like

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Speaker 1: I was like, I'm too old for this. I can't

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Speaker 1: I can't be on this. I'm way too old for this.

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Speaker 1: So the shame of that alone made me not want

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Speaker 1: to be on it. However, I also get sent TikTok's.

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Speaker 1: I love hip hop so uh, and I love short

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Speaker 1: clips of anything entertaining, and I love dog videos, which

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Speaker 1: feels like what is TikTok in general? So the things

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Speaker 1: that I follow on the other social media is always

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Speaker 1: post them up, so I feel like I'm part of

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Speaker 1: it without having to be a part of it. But

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Speaker 1: as a person who is involved in social media for

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Speaker 1: our show, which I suck at it, sorry, y'all, I

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Speaker 1: feel like we may have to traverse towards that area

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, I think we're gonna have to be

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Speaker 1: a part of this to stay real of itt y'all. Yes,

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Speaker 1: TikTok is it's if you like nerdy things, so like

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Speaker 1: Marvel Cinematic Universe, cosplay, D and D. If you like

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Speaker 1: hip hop, if you like animal videos, dance videos, it

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Speaker 1: is the place to be. And I kind of feel,

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Speaker 1: you know, I kind of came to it late to

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Speaker 1: the game, but for a while I felt just like

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Speaker 1: you feel, Sam, where I was like, I am too

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Speaker 1: old for this. I thought it was an app for

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Speaker 1: the for the youth, and I'm not totally wrong. The

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Speaker 1: data doesn't bear that out that it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: very it is. Most of people on there are younger,

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Speaker 1: but you know, there's something about it that I really love, right,

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Speaker 1: So I used to be obsessed with that app that

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Speaker 1: is no longer a thing. Vine, which was kind of

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Speaker 1: similar to tick too r I p. Vine is my

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Speaker 1: favorite social media platform. But through my work with Ultra Violet,

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Speaker 1: we've been meeting with TikTok to you know, work with

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Speaker 1: them on their policies to make sure that it's a

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Speaker 1: safe and inclusive space for everybody. And when we started

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Speaker 1: those conversations with leadership at TikTok, I was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I should probably probably start using it, and y'all, I

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Speaker 1: became obsessed so quickly, Like I went from being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm too old for this. You'll never find me, you know,

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Speaker 1: looking at I'll never be someone who enjoys TikTok too.

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Speaker 1: I can be on my phone scrolling for hours and

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Speaker 1: just be having the best time. So definitely I feel

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Speaker 1: you do you have you dabbled in like making videos?

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Speaker 1: I have made one. It's about my cat. I'm I

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Speaker 1: want to build up the confidence to be the kind

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Speaker 1: of person who was like making videos of themselves. Also,

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Speaker 1: I think it really lends itself to, you know, as podcasters.

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Speaker 1: I think it really lends itself to bite size chunks

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Speaker 1: of information. Was like, um, I think it could be

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Speaker 1: a really useful tool for people who do podcasts. But no,

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Speaker 1: I haven't really I've made that one with my cat. So, Mike, Mike,

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Speaker 1: maybe my cat will be the TikTok star and I'll

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Speaker 1: this be you know her stage mom. Yes, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that could be my thing. I'll do that with my

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Speaker 1: dog and just be like here you go, it's only

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Speaker 1: dog and she's just giving you side ie the entire time. Truly,

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Speaker 1: there are TikTok accounts that have millions of followers where

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Speaker 1: it's just that like it's like, oh, my dog makes

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Speaker 1: this funny face and people love it. They cannot get enough.

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Speaker 1: I'm one of those people. Yes, I think this is

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Speaker 1: a path for success for both of you. So for

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Speaker 1: the uninitiated, can you explain what TikTok is? Yes, So

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Speaker 1: if you're someone who has never heard of this, right,

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Speaker 1: but you've heard someone in your life talk about it,

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Speaker 1: or maybe somebody in your life is your TikTok corse

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Speaker 1: bomb that it just sends you funny videos that you

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Speaker 1: think that that they think you'll like. TikTok lets you

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Speaker 1: upload sixty second videos to music. So it's a social

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Speaker 1: media app. And how it kind of started was it

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Speaker 1: was an international version of an app I think I

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Speaker 1: might say this wrong at Doyan, which was originally released

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Speaker 1: in the Chinese market in September um. It launched in

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Speaker 1: seventeen for iOS and then for Android and most markets

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Speaker 1: outside of mainland China. However, it only became available worldwide

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Speaker 1: after merging with another Chinese social media service called Musically

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Speaker 1: in augusten. So I was kind of familiar with Musically,

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't it wasn't something I used, but I

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Speaker 1: was aware of its existence and it wasn't really like

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Speaker 1: a big thing until it merged or or with merged

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Speaker 1: with TikTok and became TikTok. And TikTok is huge right now.

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Speaker 1: It has six eighty nine million users internationally, and it

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Speaker 1: makes it the seventh largest platform in terms of users,

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Speaker 1: ahead of other platforms that have been around for much longer,

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Speaker 1: like Snapchat, Pinterest, in Twitter. And I really feel like

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why people are like flooding to

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Speaker 1: TikTok right now is that, you know, I I like Instagram,

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Speaker 1: but I do feel like there can be pressure to

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Speaker 1: be sort of a per like an airbrushed, perfect polished

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Speaker 1: version of your best self. And I think for a

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Speaker 1: while that was kind of okay, but nobody wants a

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Speaker 1: steady diet of people's fake perfection. And I think that

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Speaker 1: people are just looking for a different vibe in their

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Speaker 1: social media experience. And I think that TikTok TikTok is

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Speaker 1: where you go to be kind of like goofy or

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Speaker 1: creative or clever or weird um. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that people are just like, especially during the pandemic, like

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to see someone's airbrushed, you know, air brushed

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Speaker 1: the greatest hits real when you're going through a hard

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Speaker 1: time because of a global pandemic, right right. I think

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Speaker 1: I was looking through my camera reel of like the

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Speaker 1: year of the pandemic, and I took like four pictures

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Speaker 1: and it's like my shoshido plant plants and animals, I

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Speaker 1: believe um. And for a minute, TikTok like had the

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Speaker 1: whole versus Trump administration at one point. That's right, Trump

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Speaker 1: was threatening. It's what never actually shook out. Trump was

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Speaker 1: threatening to band TikTok because he wanted the company that

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Speaker 1: owned it to sell it. They called his bluff, and

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Speaker 1: so TikTok is currently not banned, But for a while,

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Speaker 1: I think it was TikTok and we Chat. He was

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Speaker 1: trying to get them both banned and was unsuccessful. I

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Speaker 1: remember it was so weird because it was that time,

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Speaker 1: and I had people around me be like, go ahead

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Speaker 1: and downloaded. It's about to be banned. It's about to

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Speaker 1: be banned. I feel like they didn't up search. But

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Speaker 1: then on top of that, at me, who loves to

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Speaker 1: play games on my phone, that's how I do it.

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Speaker 1: All of the little ads ended up being TikTok, and

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Speaker 1: I was like, wait, what's happening I'm getting over inundated

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Speaker 1: with TikTok ads, and I'm like, are they pushing just

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Speaker 1: to get everybody downloaded before gets banned? Is that what's happening.

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Speaker 1: I was like, les's smart, very smart. I did the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing, right. I downloaded TikTok onto my phone

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Speaker 1: and never opened it when that was going on, just

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Speaker 1: because I was like, well, I want the option to

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Speaker 1: have it in case it does get banned, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I downloaded it never used it until much later.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder that that must have had an impact

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Speaker 1: on the number of downloads. Oh yeah. I remember YouTube

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Speaker 1: ads that were like, hey, TikTok is gonna be out,

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Speaker 1: you won't be able to get it, Go download it

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Speaker 1: right now, and it was like, this is so bizarre. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Times very smart, very smart. So earlier you were saying

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Speaker 1: Sam that you felt like it was you were a

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Speaker 1: little too old for TikTok. Uh. If you think it's

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Speaker 1: an app for young people, you're not totally wrong. TikTok

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Speaker 1: is popular among the younger generations. The majority of its

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Speaker 1: users are under the age of thirty. Of US adults

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Speaker 1: between the ages of eighteen and twenty nine have TikTok

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Speaker 1: forty nine year old and fourteen are people aged sixty

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Speaker 1: five and up, so there are some older folks on there,

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Speaker 1: Like I follow a lot when I see older folks

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Speaker 1: making content on TikTok. That is an instant follow for

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Speaker 1: me because I'm like, oh, I like that you saw

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Speaker 1: this app that is hella popular with the youth, and

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Speaker 1: you were like, oh, I'm gonna get in there and

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Speaker 1: make my voice turn too. So there. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to make it seem like there are not older folks

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Speaker 1: on there. They debit on we Are, but it is

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Speaker 1: an app that is very popular with young people, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that is the that is kind of the for

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Speaker 1: people who aren't on it, that is kind of the

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Speaker 1: feel of it. And you know, to be clear, for me,

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Speaker 1: like I think I would totally be into it. I

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Speaker 1: know that some people get really judgmental of like, oh

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Speaker 1: the youths in their TikTok. That's not me at all.

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like every generation does that and it's

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Speaker 1: always ridiculous because you did the same thing when you're younger. Absolutely, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for me, it's not so much like, oh, I'm judging

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Speaker 1: that youth this more like I feel like a creeper

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Speaker 1: the young see, and I also feel like wol I

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Speaker 1: scroll TikTok. The number one feeling that I have is like,

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Speaker 1: young people are so freaking creative, They're so funny, they're

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Speaker 1: so weird. They are like, you know, there's entire TikTok's

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Speaker 1: where it's young retail workers breaking down like how much

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Speaker 1: they hate capitalism, or you know, young door enthusias. Like

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Speaker 1: it's like, young people are amazing, and TikTok, hopefully in

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Speaker 1: a non creepy way, is my window into all the

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Speaker 1: amazing things they're doing, all the amazing things they're thinking.

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Speaker 1: So but yeah, I definitely feel the same way. And um,

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Speaker 1: I think the one thing that TikTok seems to have

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Speaker 1: that I haven't seen it used in any other app

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Speaker 1: is the duet stuff, right, so the two features they have.

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Speaker 1: So if you see a TikTok and you're like I

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Speaker 1: want to respond to that, you can do wet it

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Speaker 1: and so that makes that your whatever you're gonna do,

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Speaker 1: like your TikTok will be alongside and a side by

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Speaker 1: side with the TikTok that you're duetting. And again that

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Speaker 1: technology is super cool. I've seen people use that in

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Speaker 1: such creative ways where they can like riff off of

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Speaker 1: different videos and you can do it multiple videos, and

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Speaker 1: people use that to create these really layered experiences. Like

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Speaker 1: people are very creative on the app. Like I was

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Speaker 1: in a meeting with one of the senior staffers at

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Speaker 1: TikTok and she said that if you get your news

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Speaker 1: from Twitter, and you think of like Twitter as like

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Speaker 1: a news aggory eating place, they want TikTok to feel

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Speaker 1: like short form Netflix, which I thought was so interesting

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Speaker 1: because that's exactly how I use it. The same way

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Speaker 1: that I kind of mindlessly consume Netflix shows, I will

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Speaker 1: definitely mindlessly scroll and consume TikTok content as well. No

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Speaker 1: take me onto this ever, see me again. I'm watching

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Speaker 1: TikTok videos right. And these features have made it or

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Speaker 1: at least part of the reason why it is super popular,

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Speaker 1: and it's not something that's going down correct this popularity, Oh,

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Speaker 1: it is surging in a popularity. In April, it had

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Speaker 1: been downloaded more than two billion times worldwide on both

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Speaker 1: the Apple App Store and Google Play and other words,

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Speaker 1: it was able to double its number of downloads in

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Speaker 1: just one year, and that's a pretty big sign that

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Speaker 1: this is a skyrocketing app, and I really do have

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Speaker 1: to say that, like I think it was the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: I think it was fatigue from other platforms. And I

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Speaker 1: want to be clear, I'm not I'm talking about how

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Speaker 1: much I enjoy TikTok. I am not saying that, like

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Speaker 1: TikTok is not without a whole host of its own problems.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the creators have been open about sort

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Speaker 1: of like the fatigue of feeling like you have to

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, appeas this algorithm all the time,

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Speaker 1: and like it's it's not a place that's not without

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Speaker 1: its issues, like any social media platform, but it does

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Speaker 1: seem to be that people are abandoning places like Twitter, Facebook,

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Speaker 1: Instagram for TikTok. And I think you also see marketers

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Speaker 1: doing this, Like I'm seeing more and more brands that

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Speaker 1: otherwise you'd see on places like Instagram really doubling down

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Speaker 1: on TikTok as a place to you know, reach their

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Speaker 1: audiences and reach other people, particularly things like fashion. You know,

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Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how many things I have bought

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Speaker 1: because I saw it on TikTok and it looked cool.

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Speaker 1: Like it really is a platform that I think more

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Speaker 1: and more businesses, brands, marketers are looking at because it's

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Speaker 1: getting so popular. We know the influencers have pretty uh

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Speaker 1: much infiltrated most of Instagram, But when it comes to TikTok,

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Speaker 1: do they have the same sponsorship level. I would say

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Speaker 1: that's a great question. I would say not yet. But

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Speaker 1: it's I think it's heading in that direction, right, And

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Speaker 1: I think that's another reason why Instagram this is not

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Speaker 1: as fun to me anymore. It's like you, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everything there can can kind of feel like marketing,

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Speaker 1: Like it doesn't feel authentic, as authentic as it once did.

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Speaker 1: And I'm older, so I remember when Instagram first started,

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Speaker 1: and it will be totally normal to take the most mundane,

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Speaker 1: sad looking at pictures because it just like was it.

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Speaker 1: We had not yet, we had not yet turned it

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Speaker 1: into a place to be like, here's a very polished

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Speaker 1: picture of me, also by this product that I maybe

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Speaker 1: don't use, you know, like we weren't there yet. And

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Speaker 1: so I see TikTok influencers and I see the I

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Speaker 1: definitely see like sponsored TikTok stuff from influencers. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's to the level of Instagram yet, but I

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Speaker 1: do think it's definitely could be to that level. I

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Speaker 1: see it growing exponentially, right and with that, because we

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Speaker 1: know a lot of stars were created through things like YouTube.

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Speaker 1: So people that I still don't know who they are

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Speaker 1: and their names are popping up like where did they

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Speaker 1: come from? And realize, oh, the YouTube stars. Is TikTok

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Speaker 1: creating that same type of platform and level for these

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Speaker 1: young kids exactly? So there have been folks who basically

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Speaker 1: build their platforms on TikTok. So people like Addison Ray,

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Speaker 1: Charlie Demilio. These are people who first got really popular

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Speaker 1: on TikTok, and through that popularity, they've been able to

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Speaker 1: parlay that TikTok success off the app, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: they get TV show deals or podcast deals and so

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Speaker 1: you really can see people building up their brands, building

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Speaker 1: up their platforms through TikTok. And so people that you're like,

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Speaker 1: who is this person? Why do I keep hearing about this?

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Speaker 1: You know this this person, like they're famous? Who are they?

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Speaker 1: Maybe they're TikTokers and like maybe they're maybe they're famous

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Speaker 1: to an entire generation of people you know that you

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Speaker 1: might not know about. So, but you know, with that

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Speaker 1: kind of platform comes big business, right, So, like I

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Speaker 1: know you might people might be listening and thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: what's the big deal? You know, like like who cares

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Speaker 1: who gets famous on TikTok? Who cares who gets credited

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Speaker 1: on TikTok. When you're talking about a platform as big

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Speaker 1: as TikTok, that's gonna mean you know, brand deals, that's

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Speaker 1: gonna mean marketing opportunities, all of that. And so it

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Speaker 1: really does matter when we talk about platforms like TikTok,

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Speaker 1: who gets credit and who doesn't. And that's really where

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Speaker 1: it becomes an issue because right now, an entire host

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Speaker 1: of black women on TikTok are to use their words

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Speaker 1: on strike. They say that TikTok is really fueled by

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Speaker 1: young black women creators, and yet those same creators do

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Speaker 1: not often get the credits that they feel they deserve

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Speaker 1: for really being the lifeblood of this app. And so

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Speaker 1: black women TikTok ers are currently on strike. It's resulted

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Speaker 1: in some very very interesting stuff on the app. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna lie, that's one of my favorite things to

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Speaker 1: watch right now. And again it's all the on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: so I'm seeing things like by secondhand, third hand. At

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Speaker 1: this point, it was interesting to see what is happening,

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Speaker 1: because all I know is there's a lot of dancing

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Speaker 1: on hip hop. There's a random girl who got a

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Speaker 1: big shout out on a late night show, and then

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Speaker 1: you turn around and you realize this has no spice

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Speaker 1: to it, like like I'm watching bland dancing as like

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's how I was, like,

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Speaker 1: why do I feel like I'm just chewing on raw

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Speaker 1: mashed potatoes with nothing inside? Like nothing, yeah, And that's

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Speaker 1: what I was wondering. I was like, what is happening?

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Speaker 1: And as you said that, like there's this whole thing

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Speaker 1: going on with the fact that they finally like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we're tired. We're tired of handing this over

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Speaker 1: and getting a minute level of any type of credit.

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Speaker 1: And that's only when they are called out for stealing

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Speaker 1: for stealing content. But I guess the other question to

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Speaker 1: that is can you truly steal content on platforms like this?

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Speaker 1: That's such an interesting conversation, right, I mean, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's almost kind of like an Internet philosophical conversation. I

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Speaker 1: would say, you know, the Internet is a is an

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Speaker 1: ephemeral place, and it's like when you ask questions of

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Speaker 1: like can anyone really own ideas on the Internet, or

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Speaker 1: like a dance come the Internet, or a meme or

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Speaker 1: a saying that started on the Internet. I understand that

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Speaker 1: the Internet is ephemeral and that part of what makes

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Speaker 1: the Internet so fun is people ripping off of each other,

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Speaker 1: the way that things get kind of passed down and

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Speaker 1: sort of become that game of telephone where you do

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Speaker 1: a dance, you put your own spin on it, that

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Speaker 1: it becomes this and it becomes that. That's what I

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Speaker 1: love about the Internet. However, I also think that there

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Speaker 1: has to be a way to preserve that spirit of

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Speaker 1: what makes the Internet such a fun place to spend time,

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Speaker 1: while also making sure that people are not getting screwed

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Speaker 1: out of credit and the success that they should come

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Speaker 1: along with that. And I think that we have seen

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Speaker 1: time and time again where black women, black creators, often

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Speaker 1: as very young creators, will make some thing and then

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Speaker 1: people will just assume that that thing that they have

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Speaker 1: made kind of belongs to everyone. It's like public domain

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Speaker 1: of the Internet, and so you know, people will popularize

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Speaker 1: the saying or popularize a dance, and next thing you know,

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Speaker 1: it's on a taco bell ads being used to sell

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Speaker 1: things and they're not getting any of the credit, right,

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Speaker 1: And so I think that's the conversation we really need

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Speaker 1: to have, is what are the ways in which already

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Speaker 1: marginalized creators are being sort of set up to have

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Speaker 1: everybody capitalized off of their creations except for them. And

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Speaker 1: it really does matter kind of who gets credit on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. There have been so many Internet people who

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Speaker 1: have gotten famous from starting something on the Internet. Well

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Speaker 1: that's changed their life. A girl trying kombucha where she

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Speaker 1: takes a sip and she's like, no, kind of gross,

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Speaker 1: and then another sip and she's like, well, kind of good.

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Speaker 1: You know. She she was credited by name for that,

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Speaker 1: and they put her in a Super Bowl commercial and

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Speaker 1: she made a lot of money from it. So this

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Speaker 1: really can change lives. And for instance, you know, seeing

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Speaker 1: the situation that you were talking about earlier with Jimmy Fallon,

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Speaker 1: sort of break that down. Basically. Addison Ray is this

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Speaker 1: very famous TikToker. She was invited on the Jimmy Fallon

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Speaker 1: show too for this like little skit where she was

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Speaker 1: gonna be teaching Jimmy Fallon these different dances that are

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Speaker 1: popular on TikTok while Jimmy Fallon in the background held

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Speaker 1: up the sign saying, you know what the dance was called?

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Speaker 1: And if you I mean it was a cute skit,

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Speaker 1: but like you would think that Addison Ray had come

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Speaker 1: up with those dances herself. They never bought like, they

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Speaker 1: didn't put on the card with the name of the dance.

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Speaker 1: Who created them? Right? And it wasn't until social media

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Speaker 1: outcry of people being like whoa, why are you erasing

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Speaker 1: the black youth and the black women who created these

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Speaker 1: dances but spotlighting Addison Ray who did not create them,

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Speaker 1: who was just doing them and maybe doing them not

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Speaker 1: as well as the as the original people might have

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Speaker 1: done them. You know why, Like why are you doing this?

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Speaker 1: And to the Fallon Show's credit, they said that when

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Speaker 1: they uploaded the clip to YouTube, they did include the

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Speaker 1: dancers names and eventually, after all of this outcry, he

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Speaker 1: invited the dancers themselves back for a segment, which is good,

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Speaker 1: but again like why should the people who created these

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Speaker 1: things the afterthoughts while Addison Ray is given the spotlight.

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Speaker 1: I think it really does call into question, you know,

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Speaker 1: who is allowed to capitalize and a profit on their

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Speaker 1: own creations on the internet, right? I think that it

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Speaker 1: comes to another question in that because we've seen it

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Speaker 1: time and time again, we're hearing it constantly for at

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Speaker 1: least the blive of how many times these influencers actually

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Speaker 1: still creative content, whether it's actual dresses or costumes or

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Speaker 1: hairstyles that really will affect them in their profession. And

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Speaker 1: it's kind of in that same way Addison Ray, who

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Speaker 1: I have really no clue who she is outside of

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Speaker 1: I saw that whole debacle and by people are like,

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Speaker 1: what is going on to the point and then having

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Speaker 1: a side by side like these are the creators who,

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Speaker 1: by the way, do it so much better. This looks

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Speaker 1: completely different And how do you not see that side

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Speaker 1: by side? You wouldn't You wouldn't realize it's the same dance. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I laughed because I was like, what that's that she's doing? That? Okay? Cool.

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Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, she has a beat. I have

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Speaker 1: no claims on that, but it seems to be a constant,

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Speaker 1: constant thing where obviously something's being taken from someone that's

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Speaker 1: not actually there's and that's not never been there's. So

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Speaker 1: you see, the Kardashians is one of the number one

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Speaker 1: people who do these this often where they constantly still

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Speaker 1: ideas from another creator taking money away from them, of

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Speaker 1: selling it and then making all this money, and even

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Speaker 1: when they're called out, even when they're soon, they still

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Speaker 1: don't stop it keeps going. Who truly obviously the people

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Speaker 1: who yes, stole it. But how do we truly stop

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Speaker 1: this from happening? Because I know that that seems to

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Speaker 1: be problematic on every platform, and no one seems to

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Speaker 1: care enough to stop that. Absolutely, and I completely agree

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Speaker 1: with you. We see it time and time again. I

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Speaker 1: actually think that like cross cultural borrowing is okay, but

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Speaker 1: there's a right and a wrong way to do it.

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Speaker 1: If you're if you're profiting off of someone else's ideas,

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Speaker 1: someone else has labor, someone else's talent, and then not

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Speaker 1: shouting them out, not trying to give them a platform

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Speaker 1: as well. That's where I really have a problem. I've

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Speaker 1: seen so many people do it wrong, but we also

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Speaker 1: never talked about the people who do it right, you know.

425
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: So one example of someone who I think really did

426
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: it right was Natasha Beddingfield. You'll might remember her. She

427
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: did the themes on the Hills Unwritten well on TikTok,

428
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: a TikToker who goes by Rony Boy. He popularized this

429
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: really cool dance where you go in public and dance

430
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: to a version of that song unwritten, and it was

431
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: amazing and then and it's like a completely like viral dance.

432
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: Like I once saw somebody doing it at the mall

433
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, they're doing the

434
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: TikTok dance. My friend was like, I have no idea

435
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. So it's a hugely popular. And

436
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 1: Natasha bedding Field put out a TikTok where she had

437
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: invited Ronny Boy to come dance with her and they

438
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: were like she was singing the song and he was

439
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: doing the dance, and she was like, oh, shout out

440
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: to Roney Boy for you know, making this great dance

441
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,359
Speaker 1: to my song, and like it was really joyous and

442
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: really cool. Nobody would say like, oh, Natasha Beddingfield is

443
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: trying to cannibalize this dance. That they came up was

444
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: because she shared her platform with them and gave them

445
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: proper credit. And it was like a beautiful kind of

446
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: cross cultural moment that I love and think everybody loved it,

447
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 1: and so I think there are ways to do it well,

448
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: there are ways to be like, yo, I love this culture.

449
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: Shout out to this culture, like this is like where

450
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: I got this. You know, this is the person who

451
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: designed this. Like I love the new vibe of like

452
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: sharing credit where credit is due. When I see celebrities

453
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: who will have a photo shoot or something, when they

454
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: tag the hairstylist, that makeup artists, the person who wrote

455
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: the article, the person who took the photographs. That's so

456
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: much better than trying to pretend like, oh, this is

457
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: just me. Whenever you see anything online, so many hands,

458
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: so much talent, so much creative labor went into the

459
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: thing that you're seeing, and I think it's important that

460
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: we shout that out and like not try to obscure

461
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: it and make it look like this is just one person,

462
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: but really sharing this, sharing the spotlight a little bit.

463
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: So I do think there are ways to do it right,

464
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,239
Speaker 1: but I think that it takes a little bit of

465
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: intentionality and a little bit of like humbleness to do that.

466
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: I think that like what we need to be seeing

467
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: is people being more intentional about how they participate in

468
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: like cross cultural collaboration or whatever you wanna call it,

469
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: so that it doesn't turn into cultural appropriation. So it

470
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: doesn't turn into people feeling like their culture is just

471
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 1: being picked over and stolen from like a freaking garage

472
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: sale for somebody else to to profit off of. You know. Yeah, yeah,

473
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a great point, and that's

474
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: something I feel like we've seen play out on social

475
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,360
Speaker 1: media and like all platforms. And then I'm glad it's

476
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: moving towards the way you're saying, Bridget, But like I've

477
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: been guilty of seeing something and I'm like, oh, that's cool.

478
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: I'll take a picture and I post it and I

479
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 1: don't know, like a piece of art or something, and

480
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: I didn't go out of my way to find out

481
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: like who did it or the draw like the history

482
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: behind it. And I think that's an important part of

483
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: it too, is you should keep in mind not only

484
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: crediting people, but for all you know, there could be

485
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 1: a really dark history behind whatever you just posted. So

486
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: I think that is absolutely the way that it should be,

487
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: and I hope that it's moving more towards that. Has

488
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: TikTok had a response to all of this, that's a

489
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: great question. So early on, TikTok was accused of suppressing

490
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,359
Speaker 1: content by creators of color, particularly for dance. In searches

491
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: for viral dance made by black users, for example, the

492
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: algorithm often prioritized white creators copies of those dances as

493
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: opposed to the actual like black creator who made it.

494
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: And this is according to a report from NBC News.

495
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: At TikTok actually apologized and vowed to do better and

496
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: do better job of supporting creators of color and making

497
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 1: it a more inclusive environment. But a lot of this

498
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: creators say that not much has changed from them issuing

499
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: that apology, and I think that's really why you're seeing

500
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: these black women dance. TikTok ER's going on strike right now.

501
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: I think that people are really fed up, and I

502
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 1: think that people really don't want to contribute to an

503
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: internet culture or a platform culture where they can be

504
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: erased so easily when their talent is the is like

505
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 1: the lifeblood of the app, right and like you said earlier,

506
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: some people like this is their livelihood and they can

507
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: become huge. They can get a Super Bowl commercial, for instance,

508
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: through this. So you have a few examples you brought totally.

509
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: So a good one, I think is the Renegade Dance Challenge.

510
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: And so basically this TikTok er Charlie Demilio. Somebody called

511
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: her the CEO of the Renegade Dance Challenge, right, like,

512
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: because she made this video of her doing the Renegade

513
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: dance to the song Renegade, she skyrocketed in popularity and

514
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: basically became like a low key internet celebrity. Well, the

515
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: dance was actually created by a fourteen year old black

516
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: girl named Jalila Harmon. And because even though Jalila was

517
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: the person who created this dance, Charlie a white woman,

518
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: she was the one who skyrocketed in popularity and people

519
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: would talk about her as if she created this dance,

520
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 1: like she was invited on television shows. This dance was

521
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: on Good Morning America and all of that, and very

522
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: few people actually mentioned that, like this dance was created

523
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,479
Speaker 1: not by this person who got so successful off of it,

524
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: but off of a child. And it took people on

525
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: social media being like this was created by Jelila, not Charlie.

526
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 1: And this really amazing New York Times profile written by

527
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: Tayler Lawrenz, which you should definitely read it. It's so interesting.

528
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 1: But those two things that New York Times profile and

529
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: just people, you know, making noise on social media. That's

530
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: the only reason why Jalila was given eventually sort of

531
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: like given widespread recognition. But by then the renegade dance

532
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: trend had kind of died out. It was sort of over.

533
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: And the star who came out of it, the person

534
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: who came out of it with the ability to get

535
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: like deals and podcasts and TV shows, was Charlie, not

536
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: the fourteen year old creator. Right, And so we have

537
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: to ask what kind of internet climate we're contributing to

538
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: when the person who creates the thing doesn't become the

539
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: breakout star, the person who copied the person who created

540
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: the thing does. And on top of that, which, by

541
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: the way, shout out to Julia Harmon, who is an

542
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: Atlanta native and she she teaches at the studio that

543
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: I used to do zoomba at, and I'm very intimidated

544
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: by because they're all amazing, just like y'all know. Have

545
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: you eas with her? Uh No, because I would do

546
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: zoomba and that was and they do a lot of

547
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: the booty shake it in zoomba, and it was a

548
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: shame because of like my thigh shake, my butt does not.

549
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: So I would not, but shout out to her because

550
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: she was, She's amazing, And I remember when that came

551
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: out because I was looking through and how many times

552
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: this has happened to her actually, because that wasn't the

553
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: only one. That wasn't the only one. Even still that's

554
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: still not the only one because she did. I believe

555
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: it was her who did the recent one where she

556
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: was at the Marta station and did this duet and

557
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: she just offers it up and it's like, yes, you

558
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: welcome to use this and take this, and yeah, it's

559
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: fine to have it and have it as a duet

560
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: with her, which I've seen them do a lot, but

561
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: you have content where it's not a duet, it's literally

562
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: just them being like I'm doing it ha ha uh.

563
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: And we see that at often times. And I know you,

564
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: like you said, TikTok and Instagram and all the other

565
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: places have actually been accused of erasing and censoring a

566
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: lot of the marginalized community. So I know there's a

567
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: big uproar with TikTok right now, especially during Pride Month,

568
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: because a lot of the LGBTQ community, the quart community

569
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: have been censored and have been taken off left and right. Oh. Absolutely,

570
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: if there was one thing that I would say that

571
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: marginalized content creators on platforms like TikTok and also Instagram,

572
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: all in Unison talk about is that they feel they

573
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: are being suppressed by these platforms. And it really is

574
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: tough for me as a black queer woman. I I

575
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: don't want to go off on a whole ran, so

576
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: I'll try to rein it in. But it's Pride months,

577
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: and it's hard for me to see platforms doing their

578
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: rainbow flag and talking about how much they love Pride

579
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, we love our LGBTQ community, woo, but

580
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: knowing those same platforms do not give the same support

581
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: to marginalized creators. And so it's like, when when you

582
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: change your you know, icon to rainbow, how are you

583
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: actually supporting the LGBTQ folks on your platform? Are you

584
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: suppressing them? Are you amplifying them? You know? Do you

585
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: shout them out three d and sixty five days a

586
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: year or just during Pride, you know? And it almost

587
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: feels a little empty, a little hollow for me. I'm

588
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of a Pride grinch to be honest

589
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: with you person, because of that, you know, and when

590
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: we're talking about marginalized communities, if a platform is actively

591
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: suppressing our voices, think about all the different movements, like

592
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: world changing, global movements that have been started on these platforms.

593
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: Black Lives Matters started by black queer women, Me Too

594
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: started a black woman. We are having conversations that can

595
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: change the world on these platforms. And so the least

596
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: that these platforms can do is not stand in our

597
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,719
Speaker 1: way and not suppress our voices when we do it

598
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: and time and time again, Black creators, transporators, lgbt Q creators,

599
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: sex workers, Palestinian creators, indigenous creators, all of them in unison.

600
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I have learned from talking to

601
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: marginalized content creators online is that they feel they are

602
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: being suppressed by platforms and is like almost universal. And

603
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: it's really sad because I think that these platforms want

604
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: it both ways. They want the credit for for like

605
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: being the platform on which these movements you know, happened,

606
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: but then they also don't want to give those folks

607
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: an equal playing field. They don't want to give those

608
00:31:43,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: folks a loud voice. I know recently Fuels on Instagram

609
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: and I know we're talking about TikTok, but it's it's

610
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: very much the same There was an underwear company who

611
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: had different models post their own videos and they would

612
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: be all the exact same videos, but weirdly enough, it

613
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: was all of the black models that all got deleted

614
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: and god since then got flagged. They actually got flagged

615
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: as being told they violated some rule and all the

616
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 1: white content was kept up and there was this big

617
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: uproar like what is happening? Why are you guys so

618
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: offended by black women's bodies that you are taking this off?

619
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: And I know TikTok kind of had the same thing

620
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: of just pulling specific and flagging them, saying that you're suspended,

621
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: like they went us that further instead of just like

622
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: we're not gonna just push you up, we're taking you off,

623
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: fighting you and telling you were about to be deleted

624
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: from this account. Absolutely. What I've seen people talking about

625
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: on TikTok's specifically is that on TikTok are not allowed

626
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: to have nudity, and so if you have nudity or

627
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: like perceived nudity on your content, they'll flag it, will

628
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: take it down, we'll spend you know whatever, and how

629
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: they define what is nudity that violates their policies, it

630
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: seems like if you are white and if you are thin,

631
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: you kind of get a past, and if you are

632
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: someone who is not thin or someone who is not white,

633
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: your nudity is like more against their policies than someone

634
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: else's nudity, I guess, And again I think that we

635
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: really need to have some honest, open conversations about these

636
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: platforms that can shape so much of how we live

637
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: our lives. Like the average user of TikTok is very young,

638
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: and so if you have an algorithm that is telling

639
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: them if your if your body looks like this, it's offensive,

640
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: it needs to come down. Young people are really going

641
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: to internalize that, you know. And it's like we need

642
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: to take some responsibility for the digital climate that we're creating,

643
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: particularly for our young people, Like it is critically important

644
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 1: that we all understand how important it is that these

645
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: platforms be good stewards of their content and good stewards

646
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: of like the way they are shaping generations and minds,

647
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: like on TikTok. Also, it's like they have a lot

648
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: of content that is almost kind of like promoting eating

649
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: disorders or like or like disordered eating, and it's like

650
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: people who make this content have all of these tricky

651
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: ways of getting around it, getting around and so like

652
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: that content is like banned on TikTok, you're not meant

653
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: to be uploading it, but people have all of these

654
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: ways of getting around it. And it's like these things

655
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: are urgent, it cannot wait. And so if you don't

656
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: have a team that can moderate this stuff effectively take

657
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,359
Speaker 1: it down with the quickness, it is critically important. They're

658
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: talking about people's well being, like the well being of

659
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: our young people, and I think it's really interesting that

660
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: when it comes to black creators, marginalized creators, they are

661
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: being hit on every way, whether it's completely censoring them

662
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: or just not pushing them forward. So literally being like, okay,

663
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: this is too much that we're not gonna allow this

664
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: to happen. Oh you're good, but it's not gonna be

665
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 1: as good as this white person who's taking your content

666
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: can do better. And so with all of that, do

667
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 1: you think things like this type of strike is to

668
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: actually be effective and what will work? Yes? I absolutely,

669
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: like I'm I am I'm a big believer in like

670
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: unions and striking, So I'm always like solidarity if you're

671
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: if you're striking, I support you, Yeah, I think that

672
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: what I'm what I'm so interested in with these creators

673
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: who are striking on TikTok is that they've recognized that,

674
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: like there is no platform really without them and and

675
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: that collective power. I think I'm so glad that these

676
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: young people are like seeing the power in the collective.

677
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: And it's absolutely true, right, Like, you know, TikTok is

678
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 1: such a big platform. So usually how it works is

679
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: like when a new single drops, like TikTok is the

680
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: platform to sort of market and promote that. And so

681
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: when a new single drops, usually black women dancers will

682
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: make a dance to the song and that kind of

683
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: becomes the dance to that song, and you know, other

684
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: people will film themselves doing that dance, and that the

685
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: song kind of gets more marketing, gets more popular through that,

686
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: and so that's generally how it has worked. But these

687
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: black women dancers and creators are saying no more. They're

688
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: on strike. So this new Megan the Stallion song just

689
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: dropped thought and it's like it's like, of course it's

690
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: a song that should have an accompanying TikTok dance. Well,

691
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: these black women TikTokers are saying no more. We're not

692
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: gonna make a make a dance to promote this song

693
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: to help our unpaid labor is not going to go

694
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: to promote this app that does not support us, just

695
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: does not amplify us. And we're on strike. So here's

696
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 1: a good quote from Amanda Betett. She's the co founder

697
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 1: of a consultancy firm, Define and Empower, and she made

698
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: a viral TikTok explaining the strike. She says, Black creators

699
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: are tired of white people profiting off of our work

700
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,479
Speaker 1: and appropriating black culture. We've seen the ways that older

701
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: generations of black creators have been disrespected and erased, and

702
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: we're not having it anymore. And I think she is

703
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: so right that for a long time it was just

704
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: a given that people like Jolila will just be like, Oh,

705
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: you're just gonna you're you're not gonna get as famous

706
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: as the person who does your dance, and like, that's

707
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: just the way it is. You're gonna be an afterthought

708
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: on something that you created, That's just the way it is.

709
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: I am so happy to see these youths really have

710
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: a different understanding of what could be possible from these platforms,

711
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: and they're absolutely right there is no reason why platforms

712
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: like TikTok should not be adequately supporting and amplifying their

713
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: work when that work fuels their platforms and lines to

714
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: pockets of the people who run this app, right, and

715
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 1: so absolutely I think they're exactly right. What's funny, though,

716
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: is that in absence of these black women dancers kind

717
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: of creating the dance for this megana Stallion song, other

718
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: creators have sort of like stepped in and tried to

719
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: fill that void, and the results have been awkward. I

720
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: think my favorite part of the whole thing, though, is that,

721
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: um not that I'm a creator. I'm not in any

722
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 1: of the ways. I can follow a move here and there,

723
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: and I would never pretend to be. But it feels

724
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 1: like in Megan the Stallion song, she kind of gives instructions,

725
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: does she not? He says hands on my knees, shaking

726
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: ass all my thoughts. It's pretty clear. So if you

727
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: saw you heard that and you were like, I'm gonna

728
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: come up with a dance for this, it does seem

729
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: like you will put your hands on your knees and

730
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: shake your ass, right, But the dance, it is sort

731
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: of like emerged is people with their hands in the

732
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: air and waving them above their head, so like pretty

733
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: far from the knees, you know, opposite direction direction opposite maybe,

734
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's it's it's interesting. I mean, my friend,

735
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: my good friend Leslie Mack on Twitter, she tweeted at

736
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: a collection of all these videos and it was hysterical.

737
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna became like I'm some great dancer,

738
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: but it does seem like the instructions are right there,

739
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 1: like I tell you what you should be doing. I mean,

740
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: to be fair for these people that are trying their hardest.

741
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: Maybe they're like me and they know their assets do

742
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: not match these instructions. Same I am. I am also

743
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: I also deal with the same affliction. Yeah, I mean,

744
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 1: it's all it's all in good fun and honestly, like

745
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: I anybody who has the courage to dance on an app,

746
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: I salute you, because I certainly do not. But I

747
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: think it does show that like when black creators don't,

748
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, do the labor of coming up as a dance,

749
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: it's not as good. It's like awkward, it's like not

750
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: it's like not as it's not as it doesn't feel

751
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: as authentic and I think that that that it really

752
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: illustrates the power that these creators have over the platform. Right,

753
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 1: I think it can feel like when you're a user

754
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 1: of social media, I think it can feel like you

755
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: don't have any power that you know, whatever Zuckerberg or

756
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: Jack Dorsey or whoever, whatever little decisions they make in

757
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,800
Speaker 1: the algorithm or whatever little decisions they make on their platform,

758
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: you are just subjected to those And I don't think

759
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: it should be that way. And I really salute these

760
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: black creators for saying, no, we're not. We don't have

761
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: to just take whatever policies or platform at you know,

762
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: or algorithmic whatever you throw at us. We have some

763
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: say because we have some power, and that there's so

764
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: much power in the collective. So I am I am

765
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: shout out to these young people for recognizing their collective

766
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: power and organizing the strength. Yeah, you've maybe you want

767
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: to check out to talk. I know we're talking about

768
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: a lot of problems, but now I'm like, let's see

769
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 1: what I can find on It is a fun Like

770
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: like any platform, it has its problems, but like it

771
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 1: is a it is a platform that I deeply deeply enjoy.

772
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: There for for every like problematic thing about it. I

773
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: do think it's I think it's new enough of a

774
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: platform that like, it doesn't really know what it's going

775
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: to be yet, and I think there is so much

776
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 1: potential for it to be something that is a net

777
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: positive on society. I would love to see that, and

778
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 1: I think it's possible. So, knowing that this is a

779
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: newer platform and we may be able to influence, is

780
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: there a way that we can make sure that the

781
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: same mistakes on Instagram and Twitter in trying to avoid

782
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: a ratio and trying to allow for the appropriate people

783
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: to be up on this platform. Is there a way

784
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: that we can help with that. I would say if

785
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: you are someone and this is true across platforms, if

786
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: you are someone who is on the platform, do whatever

787
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: you can to support marginalized creators on that platform. So

788
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: if you come across a video or TikTok or an

789
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 1: Instagram post, make sure that you are showing that post

790
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: some love if it's it's marginalized creator that you like

791
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: and you like their content, because it really will help

792
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,800
Speaker 1: them get more support. Um, that's something that anybody can do. Like,

793
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: if you come across like, show them some love, leave

794
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: them a comment, engage with their posts, because that will

795
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: definitely help them be seen. However, it's one of those

796
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: things like it's a little bit like climate change, where

797
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: it's like and if there are things that individual users

798
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 1: can do, but ultimately the people with power should be

799
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: the ones who are who are you know, making the

800
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: calls and doing the decisions and all of that, and

801
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: so we need to continue to pressure those folks. One

802
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: way that folks can help this is not about TikTok

803
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: but fun fact in Facebook recently announced plans to release

804
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: an Instagram for kids. A handful of attorneys general across

805
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: the country all got together and said, please don't do this.

806
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: This is going to be so harmful to youth, especially girls,

807
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: because we know that it is young girls who really

808
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: bear the brunt of the harm of social media companies.

809
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: We know that social media platforms we like. If you're

810
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: on social media, you've probably felt the way that it

811
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: is like harm your mental health at some point or another.

812
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: And giving kids unfettered access to a platform like that's

813
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: quote for them is so harmful and and further as

814
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: a burden to parents, many of whom right now are

815
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: just like completely overworked trying to do like virtual school

816
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 1: and work or whatever. And so I think that our

817
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: kids health is more important than lining the pockets of

818
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook shareholders. And if you agree, you

819
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: can go to we are ultra Violet dot org and

820
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: check out our petition asking Facebook to not come up

821
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: with an Instagram for kids. To please stop this plan

822
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: because I think it really will harm a new generation

823
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: of more of like girls and young people in in

824
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: a really serious way. Oh god, I have looks at

825
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: our on our face. It's bad. No, and people are

826
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: actually worried about sex trafficking. This should be something that

827
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: that's number one on the list, Like we don't need

828
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: an Instagram for kids, like we just like we just

829
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: don't need Like who asked for this? We don't need it? No,

830
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: thank you, okay, um? Well anything anything you want to

831
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: say before we wrap up here. I think that's it. Yeah,

832
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: I want like marginalized under represented creators support us, Support

833
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: us on platforms like TikTok, offline online support. Yes, And

834
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 1: speaking of bridget where can the listeners find you? Well,

835
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: you can subscribe to my podcast. There are no girls

836
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: on the internet on this very network. Can follow me

837
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Bridget Marian d c or on Twitter

838
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: at Bridget Marine or on TikTok And you want to

839
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: see my one cat TikTok at Bridget next podcast. I

840
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,399
Speaker 1: bet it's amazing. Bridget my cat Monica. She's a star.

841
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: She's gonna go. Make sure to credit Monica. Credit Monica. Oh,

842
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: thanks so much as always for being here. Bridget always

843
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: a delight, all my pleasure and listeners. If you would

844
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can or email us Stuff Media,

845
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: mom Stuff It I Hurt me dot com. You can

846
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on

847
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks, It's always start.

848
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,720
Speaker 1: Producer Christina, thank you and thanks to you for listening

849
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told you his production. If I Hire

850
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Speaker 1: Radio more podcast, When I Hurt Radio, visit the Heart

851
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Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows,