1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Hell. No just kidding, 2 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: welcome to Okay. F with me your girl A Danielle 3 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker, where I will probably 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: stay for the rest of my life until the American 5 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: Gestapo come and drag me out and put me in 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: some type of federal prison for political prisoners. Friends, the 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: decision that came out, that was leaked by the Supreme 8 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: Court to erase Rov Wade, to undo fifty years of 9 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: work of equality of justice in this country as it 10 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: pertains to women and pregnant people, is beyond a wake 11 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: up call. Because here's the thing that I have been saying, 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: and you will hear me, Delvin, to this conversation with 13 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: our friend today, doctor Jonathan Metzel, is that this is 14 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: only the beginning. This is only the fucking beginning. If 15 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade can fall after fifty fucking years, what 16 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: do you think isn't on the table? Do you understand? 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 1: Because they are going to come for contraception, they are 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: going to come for same sex marriage, they are going 19 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: to come for social security, they are going to come 20 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 1: for desegregated schools, they are going to come for immigration, 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: they are going to come for every fucking right that 22 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: we have ever won over the last sixty plus years. 23 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: We have a case that I talked about last week 24 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: with regard to prayer in schools. Right at the same 25 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: time that we are having a conversation in Washington State 26 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: about a fired coach's ability to organize prayer for his 27 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: football team to do so on the fifty yard line, 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: we're having that conversation. We're rolling back abortion rights, we 29 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: have already gutted voting rights. We are allowing cops to 30 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: kill black and brown people have been right with impunity. 31 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: Where do you think the fuck we go from here? 32 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, on my other show, Democracy Issue that I 33 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: do with my friend ja jahat Ali, you know, he 34 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: always would say, he's always saying, Daniel, they want to 35 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: take us back to nineteen fifty two. He wouldn't say 36 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. It was nineteen fifty two, right, Because 37 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: the front lines of the conservative, white, even jelical Christian 38 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: cult movement has always been in our schools, but it 39 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: has also been right at all levels too. What is 40 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: the word I'm even looking for, Folks, I'm struggling. I'm 41 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: struggling today, So please bear with me. I am struggling. 42 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: I stayed up overnight, I did not sleep. I wrote 43 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: a piece in the Daily Beast, which I will share 44 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: with you now. The anger and the rage that I 45 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: feel has driven me to tears more times today than 46 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: I can count, because I am worried. I am worried 47 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: about the lives of all of us. I am worried 48 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 1: about our lives for people who are not white, who 49 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: are not straight, who are not Siths, who are not Christian. 50 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: In this country, they have declared war, they have long 51 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: since declared war. And I'm reading strongly worded fucking statements 52 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: by the Biden administration, by the Harris by Kamala Harris. 53 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, I thought was a fucking prosecutor of the 54 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: largest goddamn staying in the country. Where the fuck is she? 55 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: This administration is too busy hiding the fact that a 56 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: black woman, right an Asian woman, is a vice president 57 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: of the United States, that they think that what if 58 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: they keep her out of camera shots and Mike shot 59 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: that what the rabbit white racist will forget? Folks. I 60 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: am so fucking tired of Democrats running scared. I am 61 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: so fucking tired of watching Chuck Schumer wag his fucking 62 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: finger and say, this is infuriating, as if you didn't 63 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: fucking know what Republicans have been doing out in the 64 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: open for fifty fucking years. This ain't new. They didn't 65 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: come up with this plan overnight. They have been activated 66 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: at the state and local level for decades, waiting for 67 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 1: this moment. When I watched Elizabeth Warren, Senator Elizabeth Warren 68 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 1: enraged as she's walking to her car. Senator Elizabeth Warren 69 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: has said, they have been organized, they have been catalyzed. 70 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: What the fuck have we been doing patting ourselves on 71 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: the back for Democratic presidents that turn around and then 72 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: we realized that the executive branch under Democrats doesn't have 73 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: as much fucking power as it should. I won't tell 74 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: you that we don't have a leader in this moment. 75 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: This is a thing that troubles me the most is 76 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: that back in the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, 77 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: before they were all assassinated, we had fucking leaders that 78 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: were out front, that were speaking the truth, that were 79 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: organizing people. People were willing to sacrifice because what they 80 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 1: have understood, what they have always understood, is that freedom 81 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: is not free. There is a cost to freedom. People 82 00:05:52,720 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: have given up their lives on the way to bring 83 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: us along to the path to freedom. We couldn't even 84 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: stay in the fucking house for three months and watch 85 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: Netflix when we were asked to quarantine. They want to 86 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: open up the country, open up the states. Do you 87 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: think right now that we have the fortitude to do 88 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: what needs to be done, to go out into these 89 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: streets and not to leave. Do you think that we 90 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: have the ability to collectively decide that we ain't tapping 91 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: into fucking capitalism. We're sitting the fuck out that all 92 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: that is left is to figure out what is going 93 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: to hurt them and hit them where it hurts, instead 94 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: of thinking that we're gonna go to the negotiation table 95 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 1: and negotiate our humanity, negotiate our fucking lives. Fuck them. 96 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: This is the place that I have been at. I 97 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: ain't somebody tweet at me talking about I hate wokeness, right, 98 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: I am so against wokeness. Oh so you want to 99 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: live your life asleep because that's what the fuck you 100 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: just said. Oh, I'm against woke culture. So you're against 101 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: consciousness because what you prefer is what George Orwell had 102 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: laid out for us in nineteen eighty four. You prefer 103 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: somebody else to do your thinking for you so that 104 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: you can just sit back and what be in depository 105 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: for their bullshit, because you think that that's what's going 106 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: to keep you safe. Folks, we are not in a 107 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: good place. Things are going to get much worse. And 108 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: I don't even know if the rest of us will 109 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: live to see things get better the first half. Right, 110 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of my life. I have no idea what 111 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: it's like to live in a country that doesn't have 112 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: access to abortion. You see, because everything and people will say, 113 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: and you tell me in the comments section. My life, 114 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: my lifetime has been about progression towards progress, right. It 115 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: has been about us moving the needle generation by generation. 116 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: We had never reached a point in my lifetime where 117 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: the needle was just ripped out and thrown away, where 118 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: it wasn't about expansion of rights, it was about trying 119 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: to regain them. You see, once you lose constitutional rights, 120 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: they're just gone. Once you lose democracy, it don't just 121 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: come back. Right. That's the thing that I believe that folks, 122 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: especially the democratic establishment, are still sitting around and believing 123 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: that they're going to get another bite at the apple 124 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: post mid terms in a handful of months. Are they crazy? 125 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: Are we all watching the same things unfold in the 126 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: confirmation hearings you had any COVID Barrett, you had that 127 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: rapist Kavanaugh lie tell the American people that, oh, what 128 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: is law? What is precedented? Will stand? Do we understand 129 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: now that these motherfuckers will just tell you what it 130 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: is that you want to hear when you want to 131 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: hear it, and then do what and then do the opposite? 132 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: Do we get that now? Do we get that these 133 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: people that Joe Biden still considers his friends would rather 134 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: see him hung from a tree alongside his vice president? 135 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: Do we recognize that violence is what it is going 136 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: to come from the actions that they are taking right now, 137 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: because you see, there is never going to be enough. 138 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: They are going to gobble up each every single right 139 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: like they are a bunch of fucking pact men. And 140 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: then if we don't power in their presence, if we 141 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: do not submit, what do you think that they're going 142 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: to do? You think they're just gonna leave us all 143 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: alone to be and to brood. No, they are going 144 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: to take us out. They are going to make examples 145 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: of those of us that decide to continue to speak out. 146 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: They are going to terrorize and dismantle communities and organizations 147 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: that have been working for and towards equity. We are 148 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: living in the most unstable and unjust times that any 149 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: of us have ever seen. I want to read to 150 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 1: you a part of my Peace with the Day Beast, 151 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: which is upright now. And you know I posted this. 152 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: It was posted, I should say, at about one o'clock 153 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: in the morning after the decision was leaked, because that's 154 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: what happens. My mother said to me, so, I guess 155 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: you just can't sleep these days, And I said, what 156 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: does that look like? No, I can't. The title of 157 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: my piece has caused a lot of people to be 158 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: very upset, and I said, you know, what I would 159 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: love is that if people would actually look past the 160 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: titles of things and read articles. But you know, alas 161 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: they don't do that either. But what it does is 162 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: lay out the ways in which this could have been avoided. 163 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: How we could have maintained a five to four split 164 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: in a Supreme court if Democrats had any strategy or 165 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: a fucking backbone and didn't think that, you know, the 166 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: world was just filled with an unlimited amount of chances. 167 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: It's entitled. Ruth Bader Ginsburg could probably have saved Roe 168 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: by retiring. Yeah, I said, what the fuck I said? 169 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: But she earned the right to make her choice. Point 170 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: a finger instead at Democrats who've proven they will give 171 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: in while Republicans will fight to the end to protect 172 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: their power. The death of Ruth of Justice Ruth Bader 173 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: Ginsberg in twenty twenty was almost two on the nose 174 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: for a year marred by unimaginable tragedy and trauma whose 175 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: impact was sorely felt. Monday night, when Elite drafted the 176 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: majority decision written by Justice Alito in the highly anticipated 177 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization case, appeared to seal 178 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: the fate of Roe v. Wade, the nineteen seventy three 179 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: decision that legalized abortion nationwide. As one of the most 180 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: esteemed liberal justices to sit on the bench, Ginsburg had 181 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: scoffed at the idea of retiring before she felt that 182 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: she could quote no longer do the job following multiple 183 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: bouts with cancer and a broken hip. Her ability to 184 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: conquer each health obstacle with perseverance and strength turned her 185 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: into a living feminist, folk hero and rock star until 186 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: her death at the age of eighty seven. She seemed 187 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: indestructible until she wasn't. Now the question must be asked, 188 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: could her retirement at the age of eighty and then 189 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: President Obama's second term have deterred America's now inevitable backslide 190 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: into a neo dark age's where the freedom to control 191 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: one's life and destiny no longer exists for those dwelling 192 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:52,079 Speaker 1: outside the womb. In that alternative future, the Court would 193 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: still have a conservative majority, but a narrower five to 194 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: four split would have at least given a semblance of hope. 195 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: Now here's where is here in the piece? Is my 196 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: t be sure? Because folks, you know I am not 197 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: an attorney. I am not a lawyer, but I understand 198 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: how policy works and I understand politics. So I go 199 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: on to say this. Ginsburg alone couldn't have saved the Court, 200 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: but in giving up her seat, she could have stalled 201 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: its transformation into the conservative juggernaut that is about to 202 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: achieve the Republican's holy grail. Then President Trump was able 203 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: to seat three justices in a single term thanks to 204 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: the diabolical strategic maneuvering of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, 205 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: who aided and abetted Trump in the hijacking of the courts, 206 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: and with them our democracy. Folks. You know that when 207 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: it is Wednesday, I'm always grateful to be joined by 208 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: our friends and in house doctor doctor Jonathan Metzl, author 209 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: of the book Dying of Whiteness. Jonathan, you know, let 210 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: me tell you something. I don't know where the fuck 211 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: to begin, and I'm just gonna curse a lot because 212 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: I feel I can't say that the leaked Scotus decision 213 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: in the Mississippi abortion case has caught me off guard, 214 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: because that would be a lie. I can't say that 215 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: I didn't believe that, after fifty years of hammering at 216 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: the same nail, that I didn't think eventually that white 217 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: evangelical Christians and the rabid Republican base wouldn't eventually send 218 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: that nail through the uteruses of women across this country. 219 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: But what I can say is that Democrats have as 220 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: a whole, have woefully underestimated the Republican Party and have 221 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: woefully underestimated white evangelical Christians and their power. Tell me 222 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: how you are feeling today, um as a medical professional, 223 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: as a progressive um. Waking up to and having absorbed 224 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: this news, well, I don't curse very much, you know. 225 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: I usually let you do the cursing, and I'm like 226 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: the voice of reason. But today, like Smegma, you know, 227 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: what the hell I'm going to say every cursor? I know, like, 228 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: because because it's a it's an insane moment. It's an 229 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: insane um for a couple of reasons. Number one, of course, 230 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: is it just in of itself is horrible. Number Two, 231 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: there's this leak. We don't know, I mean, the league, 232 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: we don't know the story of the leak. Was it 233 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: somebody on our side, somebody on their side? Was it 234 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: the Russians hacking? Like we don't know. So there's also 235 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: the bigger story about the you know, also a story 236 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: about the institution. But also this pretends a lot of 237 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: really bad shit. I mean, if if that is the decision, 238 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: which we don't know what, I mean, the one thing 239 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,120 Speaker 1: is what will the final decision look like? But even 240 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: if that was a draft of a decision, I mean, 241 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: that was pretty close to like let's keep women at 242 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: home baking pies, M kind of deal. Yeah, And so 243 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: just the assumption about just that people think about gender 244 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: that way is so upsetting and and so you know, 245 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: even if you study this, so shocking and so unbelievable 246 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: that that we're going to go to this red you know, 247 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: retrograde gender kind of stuff. But of course that's what 248 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: happens when societies go through you know, Tehran was a 249 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: totally vibrant place, very route, totally vibrant place, you know, 250 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: Russia fifteen twenty years ago. I mean, so when societies 251 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: go backward, they go backward on race and gender. That's 252 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: kind of how they go backward. I mean, they go 253 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: backward on a maddow their stuff. Two. So I think 254 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: the issue is, you know, I think people are waking 255 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: up today to the realization that they can't really take 256 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: it for granted that really, when societies go backward, this 257 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: is what happens. The rights that people have are not 258 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:18,200 Speaker 1: etched in granted forever. And so these are things we're 259 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: going to have to fight for. You know, here's the 260 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: thing that I want to talk to you too about, 261 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: because you are essentially an investigative reporter. Excuse me, when 262 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: it comes to understanding whiteness. Talk to me about white women, right, 263 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: now and the fact that we think that this is 264 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: going to wake white women up. I mean, that's for 265 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: me is the hardest thing, honestly is I mean the 266 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: two hardest things for me in terms of that narrative. First, 267 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: of course is pain and anger and fury and sadness 268 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: of what this means. But beyond that, I'm surprised how 269 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: many people are surprised, Like where you've been, Um, you 270 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: know that they've been. This has been quite predictable. And 271 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: number two, I think it's important for people to realize 272 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: that this moment right now took fifty years for these 273 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: other dudes to do, and it was fifty years of 274 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: starting at the bottom. They lost, and what they do. 275 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: They ran for local elections, They figured out how to 276 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: seat judges at the local level. They ran, as we've 277 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: said a million times on here, for school board and 278 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: election officials, and they figured out what kind of deals 279 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: they had to make with odious businesses and stuff like that. 280 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: So it was kind of like an eyes on the 281 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: prize momentum that as we know, and involves a lot 282 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: of people. And so really the question right now is 283 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: did the Democrats the Democrats have it in them to 284 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: sustain the fight that this is going to take um. 285 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: And I think that's a fair question. I mean, I 286 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: think that there are a lot of women who agree 287 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: with this decision. Obviously, there are a lot of people 288 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: who feel on many sides of this. So the question 289 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: is can Democrats and mobilize what this is going to take? Um? No, Okay, 290 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: they can't because none of this was a shock, right, 291 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: Like you're taking fifty years to write the same playbook 292 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: and literally just roll out different volumes every single year 293 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: over five decades, and Democrats have come up with no plan, 294 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: no plan whatsoever to comeback this which was to control 295 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: the courts, to expand the courts, and then to control them, 296 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: meaning that every single time that there was a Democrat 297 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: going back even before Clinton, that that should have been 298 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: the main goal, but it wasn't. But the thing is 299 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 1: our base, that's never been our the argument of our base. Right. 300 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: In other words, like the one thing I was thinking 301 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: when you asked me about spending a lot of time 302 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: interviewing white people, when you interview Republicans, like their goal 303 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: is control the courts, get power, and everybody be like, 304 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: well what about your healthcare and what about your thing? 305 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: I mean that's what I thought, and they're like, no, 306 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: we want to control the courts and get power and 307 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: implement our thing. And so, you know, mister McConnell is 308 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: like the perfect illustration of that. Everything just just about 309 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: getting the course and Democrats we've had. Think of all 310 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: the random issues we've had over the years that are 311 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: hot button issues for five minutes and then they go away, 312 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and even stuff that really matters. 313 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I study guns, and after mass shootings there 314 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: would be like two weeks of fury and marches and 315 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: never again and that kind of stuff, and then people 316 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: would go home and do their own thing. But I've 317 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: just stay studying Republicans, like I don't know, these fuckers 318 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: slept in front of women's abortion clinics for fifty years. 319 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: They're still out there tonight. And so in a way 320 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: that you know, it's hard because the Democrats are, as 321 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: we've said here, a confederation of a lot of different interests. 322 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: So the question is will this be the one that 323 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: mobilizes people, that creates a common cause. And the reason 324 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical of that A is because of history, as 325 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 1: you say, but B also is because a lot more 326 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: bad shit is coming down the pike. So this is 327 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: this is you know, if you're going to use this logic, 328 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: then there's a lot more bad stuff coming. What do 329 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: you think that the bottom is? Where do you think 330 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: that it goes? Um? In studying, in studying these people 331 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: really understanding how their brains work, what is their end goal? 332 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: Like literally like this this was the holy grail. Abortion, 333 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: I believe was the holy grail. In the decision that 334 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: we have that some of us have gone through that 335 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: was leaked, there is mention of the Lawrence case which 336 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: was about which was about decriminalizing sodomy. There was reference 337 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: to marriage, there was reference to LGBTQ marriage. There are 338 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: reference points to all of these things that have been 339 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: one over the last fifty years. And so if they 340 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: belief you, if this can fall, then everything that we 341 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: thought was quote unquote codified into law, it's done. And 342 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: so in your conversations and in your research, what does 343 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: what does the utopia of white evangelical christian Hood look like? 344 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: It's weird because there's no consistency right. Nobody's ever lost 345 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: a constitutional right in this country until yesterday apparently, and 346 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: so all the things like states rights and the Constitution 347 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. It's really just a 348 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: smokescreen for power. But I think it's important for people 349 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: to realize that a lot of the stuff like with 350 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: like you can't get an abortion in Tennessee, for example, 351 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: pretty much like a lot of this stuff, you can 352 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: get a gun anywhere in Tennessee. Republicans dominate the states. 353 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: So if you want to know what this is going 354 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: to look like, just imagine Tennessee of America, because that's 355 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: that's already happening. And I guess one of the frustrations 356 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: for me why I wrote Dying a Whiteness where I'm 357 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: writing the book I'm writing now, is because it was 358 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: too easy, honestly for coastal liberal people to say, oh, 359 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: this is this is just happening in the red state America, 360 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: and we're it's like whatever, and we don't have to 361 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: deal with it, like but it's coming for you, you know. 362 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: And so that was kind of the point of Dying 363 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: of Whiteness was if you want to look at what's happening, 364 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: look at what's happening there, and then intervene there, because 365 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: that's that's the focus of where this is happening. Really 366 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: try to figure out what would it mean to turn 367 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: the tide, not in New York or Los Angeles, but 368 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: in rural Tennessee. What would you mean to gain influence, 369 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: to talk to people, to do all these kind of things. 370 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: And I can't tell you how hard that argument has 371 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: been for many, many years, but I would say that 372 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: that's kind of the issue is if you want to 373 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: look at what this is going to be, just look 374 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: to my home state, because that's kind of what it 375 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: is already. And so this idea that New York is safe, 376 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's it's it's sadly tragic that 377 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: people think that they're they're just going to be abortions 378 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: in Connecticut and Los Angeles and New York. Like have 379 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: you not been paying attention, dude, Like you know, you 380 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: think people from Tennessee are just going to get to 381 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: come here and have abortions. It is not going to 382 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: work that way. And so I don't know. I hope 383 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: this is a wake up moment. I really do, But 384 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: like I guess, I guess when I when we say 385 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: things like that, and I'm not like attacking you, it's 386 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 1: just I you know, I spent all of last night 387 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter and writing my piece that's in the Daily 388 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: Beast today that dropped, you know, in the morning. Like 389 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: we say, like I hope that these things will be 390 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: a wake up call. It's kind of the way that 391 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: we say, you know, when a loved one dies, Oh, 392 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,920 Speaker 1: they're in a better place. No, they're not right, because 393 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: that better place I wanted to be with me, right, 394 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: not you know, in the ground or in an urn. Right. 395 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: And so it's like these are things that we tell 396 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: ourselves too, I guess, make ourselves feel better. But in reality, 397 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: I think that the wake up call is too late. 398 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: Jonathan Well, I mean, I do think there's something palpable 399 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: about the anger this morning that is different than what 400 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: I felt. So I'm willing to keep the possibility open 401 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: that this is a turning point moment. I mean, certainly 402 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: it's a turning point moment in our country, that's right. 403 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: But I would say I can give you nine zillion 404 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: examples of times that people have been angry that have 405 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: been anger for the expression of anger sake, and not 406 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: anger for the let's seize the mechanisms of powers stake. 407 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: You know. One great one is the Women's March. It 408 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: happened right when Trump was elected, very powerful, tactile, angry, 409 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: coordinated event happening, But it wasn't tied to voter registration, 410 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't tied to any specific demands about judiciary. It 411 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: was very I mean, it was democratic, which was great 412 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: about it. But I kept thinking, like, why aren't we 413 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: doing like voter registration at this march, or why aren't 414 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: we doing something that? And so I think, you know, 415 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: and it's I guess for me, it very similar to 416 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the marches we had after mass shootings 417 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: where people were protesting and saying in the NRA or 418 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: expand the Supreme Court, all these kind of things, and 419 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, to do that, you actually have to 420 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,719 Speaker 1: you have to like understand how power works and they 421 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: gain power like Republicans really understand that. So a wake 422 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: up call and anger is not going to be enough. 423 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: It's actually going to be understanding, like I don't know, 424 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: just like understand the system. We're not going to unfortunately, 425 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: we're not going to expand the Supreme Court. That's not 426 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: going to happen right now. That's a step wise process. 427 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: And so to say stuff like that, you're just in 428 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: a way risking repeating the same problem that got you 429 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: here in the first place, which is not understanding top 430 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: to bottom how the American political system works, which is 431 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: really kind of what we have to do from here. 432 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that I've said in 433 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: the piece that I wrote is that, you know, Republicans 434 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: have been going at this four fifty years. They have 435 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 1: never given up. They have fund raised off of it, 436 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: they have and candidates on it. It has been much 437 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: alike with gun rights. It has been the litmus test 438 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: that they have used to be able to show how 439 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: conservative a candidate, whether at the school board level or 440 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,880 Speaker 1: um for president, has been, has been whether or not 441 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: they agree with abortion, whether or not, you know, they 442 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: believe in gun rights. And we don't have that kind 443 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: of litmus test, right Like, we sat around and believed 444 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: Susan Collins when she told us that that the confirmation 445 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: of Brett Kavanaugh wasn't going to mean the end of 446 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: Robie Wade. And I'm like and and people believed her, 447 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,479 Speaker 1: and and I'm like, are you dumb? Right? Like again, 448 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: I go back to the fact that Joe Biden is 449 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: a is a statesman from another fucking century, right, believing 450 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: that these people are his friends, and that he's going 451 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: to sit down over a glass of scotch and just 452 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: hash out these you know, these big issues and then 453 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: go about his day. This is they played to win. 454 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: And I don't think that we're getting another bite at 455 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: the apple. I don't think we're going to get another 456 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: opportunity to pick up the ball. I think that this 457 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: is it right for women's rights. I think that what's 458 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: next is lgbt Q rights. I think that what comes 459 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: after that is, you know, is the d is a 460 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: resegregation of schools. I think that they are coming for 461 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: everything pre nineteen fifty two. That's a sad I mean, 462 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: that's a sad world. Um yeah, I mean, but not 463 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: for white not for cis agender had a row white men. 464 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: It's not it is the world. Well yeah, yeah, yeah, 465 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: I mean that's what I mean, clearly, that's what we're facing. 466 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: I mean, in other words, when you read that opinion, 467 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: even if it was just like notes to myself, I'm 468 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: dictating on the treadmill, you know, and maybe that'll stuff 469 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: a log get taken out of the final. But if 470 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: the leaker was on our side, I think people wanted 471 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: to see, like here's the here's the here's what's at 472 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: stake here, And so if the leaker was on our 473 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: side and not like a Russian packer, I think I 474 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: think it's important to see this draft, even though it's 475 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, antithetical to how we think about the court. 476 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: Um but um. But I would also say, I don't know. 477 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: I just think of all the democratic things and now 478 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: is not the time to be critical Democrats, not now 479 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: the time to unify. But I've said on this show 480 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of times like, um, like, oh, you know, 481 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: we hate Management and Cinema because they don't vote for 482 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: the Social Safety Net plan and therefore, I mean they're 483 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: douchebags too, but uh but um but they're But you 484 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: want people to vote for your judges basically, I mean, like, 485 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, you know, people and Management and Cinema have 486 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: voted for every one of the Democratic judges, and so 487 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: I feel like in this like, oh, like, let's let's 488 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: replace that. They might it might as well be a 489 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: Republican And I'm like, no, it's actually worse of it's 490 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: a Republican because Management, Cinema vote forever have voted for 491 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: everyone of Biden's judiciary nominations, and so you know, it's 492 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: just just something about how power works that Democrats don't 493 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: quite understand. It's much more about it's much more about 494 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. We're gonna have to change how we 495 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: think about how power works. I'll support it that way. 496 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: I mean, we're going to change how we think about 497 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: how power works because we ain't never going to get 498 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: it again. Jonathan. Final thought to you about what is 499 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: the one thing if you were to say to Democrats 500 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: about their understanding of the aggrieved white voter, what is 501 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: the one thing? And I use that in quotations, but 502 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: what is the one thing that democrats are missing about 503 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: this voting block that Republicans know and hammer it's weird. 504 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: I interviewed a bunch of people last night. I was 505 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: up all night also, and and a lot of people 506 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: who I was interviewing, they you would think they were like, 507 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: oh my god, fifty year fight, we won, let's go celebrate, 508 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: but they were They were feeling incredibly aggrieved even now. 509 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 1: So they were like, oh my god, this league it 510 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: had to be liberals who were doing this to undermine us. 511 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: And this is going to be just another twenty twenty 512 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: and Black Lives Matter is going to loot and burn 513 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, Like there's this constant casting of 514 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: yourself as the victim, even in a case like this 515 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: where you won and you're the aggressor, and so the 516 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: question is how do you how do you combat that? Right? 517 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a constant narrative even now that is 518 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: casting this as we're the victims of this thing that 519 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: we just won. And it's NonStop, It's literally NonStop. And 520 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: so the only way you fight back on that is unfortunately, 521 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: by taking power, And the only way you take power 522 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: is by building coalitions. And the only way you build 523 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: coalitions is by broadening the appeal of what you're doing. 524 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: And I feel like Democrats have not done that right 525 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: in other words, we did it like again now like 526 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: centrist versus progressives right now? Really you really would have 527 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: that fight right now? What about like every voter under 528 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: our tent and stuff like that, And so, I mean, 529 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: right now we're still in the American democratic political system. 530 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: That might not be the case going forward, but it's 531 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: the same answer. Run for school board, run for election officials, 532 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: Like how where's the massive campaign to have Democrats running 533 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: for election officials that are going to be like Trump 534 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: nut jobs and stuff like that. Like that, that's got 535 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: to be kind of where you start. Yeah, where you 536 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: start is where they have been rallying and where they 537 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: have been organizing for the last five decades. Yeah, and 538 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, it sucks that Elon must took over Twitter, 539 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: but like, I don't know, we've spent a lot of 540 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 1: time tweeting and not a lot of time running for 541 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: school board. So that's got to change. Well, I will 542 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: say that my role is not to run for office. 543 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: I'm not interested. I'm running for you, for you, and 544 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 1: people ask all the time, no, you all go run 545 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: for office. Like I have no desire to be in 546 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: political life. I have desire to be in policy world. Yeah, right, 547 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: which I have done throughout the entirety of my career. 548 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: But I'm not going to be beholden to constituents. But 549 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 1: there are people out there who need this push to say, 550 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: you don't got to be a congressman, you don't have 551 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: to be a city count. You could run for your 552 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: kids school board, even if you don't have a goddamn kid. 553 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: Go run for school board if you care about education, 554 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: equality and justice, because that's where the front lines are 555 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: right now. I think it's like the thing it is 556 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: like I don't have I don't have a kid, like 557 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: I want to run for school board, and so I mean, 558 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: that's actually the only thing that I would run for 559 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: this is a school board. If I were to move 560 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: back to Long Island. That's the only thing that I 561 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 1: actually would run for because I believe that education actually matters. Yeah, Jonathan, 562 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: dear friend, thank you so much on this terrible day 563 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: to make time to join us. The thing. The thing is, um, 564 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, I guess there's just I mean, there's some 565 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: point that I'm trying to say here, which is just 566 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 1: you know, I do hope it is a turning point. 567 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: I really do hope it is a turning point. And 568 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,919 Speaker 1: it's not like everybody has to run for school board. 569 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 1: But people have to understand how the political process works. 570 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: We have to understand how the political process works, like 571 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: we need a coherent strategy, which is how we got 572 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: versus way in the first place. Yeah, appreciate you, and 573 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 1: I hope that you'll be back next week, unless you know, 574 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: we're in some type of political prison somewhere and you know, Tennessee. 575 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on woke 576 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: f as always power to the people and to all 577 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.