Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're putting
Speaker 1: on EyeBlack and finding a good recipe for seven layer dip.
Speaker 1: Because the NFL season is here. On today's show, we've
Speaker 1: got a very special group chat with some truly badass,
Speaker 1: truly game changing women. And because I'm still sipping honey
Speaker 1: deuces at the US Open, We're gonna skip all the
Speaker 1: business up top and jump right into the interview. We'll
Speaker 1: get you all caught up on the latest headlines tomorrow,
Speaker 1: but for now, something a little different. I talked to
Speaker 1: Tennessee Titans defensive quality control coach Lori Locus and Chicago
Speaker 1: Bears offensive assistant Jennifer King. The Tennessee Titans and the
Speaker 1: Chicago Bears aren't those NFL teams, you ask, well, dear slices, Yes,
Speaker 1: yes they are. The NFL season kicks off tonight and
Speaker 1: there's a full slate of games on Sunday. And while
Speaker 1: we know there aren't any women players in the NFL, yet,
Speaker 1: there are tons of women and girls playing tackle football
Speaker 1: and flag football, and there are more women coaches in
Speaker 1: the game than ever before. So even though this is
Speaker 1: a women's sports show, we thought this was worth bringing
Speaker 1: to you because I love talking to these ladies, and
Speaker 1: also because the game is changing. For years, when NFL
Speaker 1: and college football coaches were asked why there weren't any
Speaker 1: women on staff, the same excuses were always coming up.
Speaker 1: Women aren't interested, women don't want these jobs, women don't
Speaker 1: like football. Even if you wanted to hire a woman,
Speaker 1: how'd you find one that's qualified. Enter Sam Rappaport, my queen.
Speaker 1: She had answers to all of those questions. She's the
Speaker 1: secret sauce behind the leap from one woman breaking barriers
Speaker 1: as an interned linebackers coach in twenty fifteen to now
Speaker 1: fifteen women holding full time coaching positions in the NFL
Speaker 1: this year. It's a new league record and the most
Speaker 1: for any male professional sports league in the world. In
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Sam Rapaport launched the Women's Careers in Football Form,
Speaker 1: which helps connect women working in football, usually at the
Speaker 1: college level, with mentors and job opportunities in the NFL.
Speaker 1: As the NFL Senior Director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusions,
Speaker 1: Sam knew that the forum would put qualified women ready
Speaker 1: to be hired right away, in the same room with
Speaker 1: the people actually doing the hiring the coaches and the gms,
Speaker 1: and it's worked. She created the pipeline that women needed
Speaker 1: to get access and get a shot, including Lourie and Jen.
Speaker 1: Laurie attended the inaugural event in twenty seventeen and then
Speaker 1: again in twenty eighteen when Jen was also invited to participate,
Speaker 1: and the rest, as they say, is history. On Sunday,
Speaker 1: Laurie and Jen's teams open up the season against each other,
Speaker 1: with the Titans traveling to play my Chicago Bears. So
Speaker 1: in addition to them talking about being pioneering badasses, we
Speaker 1: also had to make them engage in a little smack
Speaker 1: talk too. The whole conversation's coming up right after this.
Speaker 1: It's time for another group chat where we take the
Speaker 1: tea from the text and put it on the airwaves.
Speaker 1: Joining us now, she's a Super Bowl champion, now a
Speaker 1: defensive quality control coach for the Tennessee Titans of the NFL,
Speaker 1: Tennessee's first full time female coach in franchise history. She
Speaker 1: became the first female position coach in all of NFL
Speaker 1: history and the third female full time assistant coach ever,
Speaker 1: when she was hired by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as
Speaker 1: their assistant defensive line coach in twenty nineteen. As a player,
Speaker 1: she was a D lineman team captain and MVP for
Speaker 1: the Semi Pro Central PA Vipers. She got permission from
Speaker 1: Tom Brady to use public service announcement as a walk
Speaker 1: up song, It's Lori Locus. What's up? Coach Low?
Speaker 2: Hey Sarah, how are you? Nice to see you again?
Speaker 2: You too?
Speaker 1: Joining her, We've got an offensive assistant for my Chicago Bears,
Speaker 1: the first female coach in the Bears franchise one hundred
Speaker 1: and four year history, And when she was hired an
Speaker 1: assistant running backs coach for the Washington Commanders in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, she became the first black woman to be
Speaker 1: a full time NFL coach. A former two sport athlete
Speaker 1: in college, where she played basketball and softball, she went
Speaker 1: on to play in the Women's Football Alliance as a
Speaker 1: quarterback and wide receiver from six to twenty nineteen. She
Speaker 1: also coached women's basketball, worked as a flight attendant, and
Speaker 1: as a police officer. She's a cat with many lives, apparently,
Speaker 1: it's Jennifer King. What's up?
Speaker 2: Jennifer?
Speaker 3: Oh God? How are you? I mean?
Speaker 1: Not a lot just maybe potentially the greatest quarterback in
Speaker 1: all of Bear's history. But we'll get to that. I
Speaker 1: want to start with that football career. I just mentioned
Speaker 1: you were a long time semi pro women's football player.
Speaker 1: How did you get into playing, Jennifer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always loved football growing up.
Speaker 4: Grew up in a little small football town, and when
Speaker 4: I graduated college, I was playing pick up every week
Speaker 4: with some ladies and they were on the team and
Speaker 4: I didn't even know it existed, so they invited me
Speaker 4: out and it was a rap from there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were just sold. Laura. You were a little
Speaker 1: bit of a late arrival to playing football, which I
Speaker 1: love tell us about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I had always been a fan of the game,
Speaker 5: and like Jennifer, when I was younger, I mean in
Speaker 5: the neighborhood, the pickup games and stuff like that. But
Speaker 5: the women's team in my area, which was Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 5: didn't really get there until I was almost forty, so
Speaker 5: that's when I started playing. So I had a little
Speaker 5: bit of a late jump into the game that we
Speaker 5: all loved.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1: I want to say that's a lesson to everyone that
Speaker 1: no matter how old you are you can get started
Speaker 1: and jump into football. But I also want to mentioned
Speaker 1: that you had four knee surgeries, a bone graph from
Speaker 1: your hip, a plate in, a cervical fusion in your neck,
Speaker 1: and one shoulder ripped out of place. So you can
Speaker 1: football at forty, but I'm not saying I recommend it. Laura,
Speaker 1: you mentioned that you always had a love of football,
Speaker 1: so you spent the first dozen or so years of
Speaker 1: your football career balancing a job insurance plus raising two sons,
Speaker 1: and then just taking any opportunity you could to coach.
Speaker 1: You interned or apprenticed with high school teams, with semi
Speaker 1: pro teams, and you did that at a time where
Speaker 1: there were really no women in notable positions that you
Speaker 1: could point to and tell your family this is what
Speaker 1: I'm working towards, this is what could happen if my
Speaker 1: hard work pays off. I want to start there quickly
Speaker 1: with why when you couldn't see something above those internships
Speaker 1: or apprentice gigs, was that enough for you or did
Speaker 1: you believe that eventually they would be there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So I don't know that I necessarily ever like looked,
Speaker 5: I don't everything to head enough or tried to find
Speaker 5: somebody to attach to.
Speaker 2: If that makes sense.
Speaker 5: I mean, I just I love football and getting the
Speaker 5: opportunities that I did, and making the relationships with the
Speaker 5: coaches that I still considered to be, you know, very
Speaker 5: instrumental in my path to where I'm at right now.
Speaker 5: I mean, it just kind of was very organic. So
Speaker 5: I never really set out to like be like you know,
Speaker 5: I got to go to this level and I got
Speaker 5: to that level. I mean, Jennifer said it like a
Speaker 5: thousand times. I totally agree. You know, I just wanted
Speaker 5: to be where I was, but I wanted to be
Speaker 5: as good as I could be where I was, and
Speaker 5: then that seemed to always lend itself to like another opportunity,
Speaker 5: and that just I mean it sounds like long winded,
Speaker 5: but I mean that was enough because I was learning,
Speaker 5: I was involved with coaching staffs that I really.
Speaker 2: Enjoyed being around, and.
Speaker 5: I got to coach football and like you said, at
Speaker 5: different levels. So you know, and I don't know Jennifer
Speaker 5: feels the same way, but you know, you are a
Speaker 5: fan of the game and you love the game of
Speaker 5: football from that aspect, and then you get an opportunity
Speaker 5: to play football and you kind of fall in love
Speaker 5: with it from a different angle, And then you know,
Speaker 5: I would have played longer had I not gotten all
Speaker 5: these injuries you categorized earlier. But then when you coach football,
Speaker 5: you fall in love with the game in a whole
Speaker 5: other way.
Speaker 2: So it just kind of kept growing.
Speaker 5: And I didn't force it, and I wasn't trying to
Speaker 5: like make big strides or make media splashes.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to coach.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you didn't need to see something bigger in
Speaker 1: order to have what you were already doing be satisfying
Speaker 1: and valuable to you because you love the game so much.
Speaker 1: And yet you go to this NFL Women's Careers in
Speaker 1: Football forum in twenty seventeen, and that sort of changed
Speaker 1: everything for you. Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, when you're doing, you know, things like this.
Speaker 5: Right when I was back in Pennsylvania, You're right, I
Speaker 5: didn't see any other women, and at times it could
Speaker 5: be isolating. So being able to go to that women's
Speaker 5: forum and now all of a sudden, you're in this
Speaker 5: room and there's like hundreds of women that are as
Speaker 5: actively involved in the game or loved the game, or
Speaker 5: are coaching in certain aspects and then you know, the
Speaker 5: forum that Jennifer and I got invited to, I think
Speaker 5: there were fifty women total, and only fifteen of us
Speaker 5: were in the coaching track, and that was from all
Speaker 5: over the country. So I mean, it's still nice to
Speaker 5: know that there were other women out there that were
Speaker 5: like you, that had maybe the same aspirations or experience.
Speaker 5: It just kind of validated the fact that this was
Speaker 5: something we didn't know what it was at the time,
Speaker 5: but it was something that we all really enjoyed, and
Speaker 5: the connections have lasted.
Speaker 2: Obviously.
Speaker 5: You'll have to ask Jennifer about what you remember me
Speaker 5: from the forum call.
Speaker 2: That called that. You know.
Speaker 1: I love what you said, though, because I found that
Speaker 1: when I joined espnW, one of the first meeting is
Speaker 1: I got dropped into a room full of women who
Speaker 1: were obsessed with sports, who had played college sports, and
Speaker 1: after working in predominantly rooms full of men, it just
Speaker 1: felt different to realize I wasn't alone. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: I wasn't willing to do it if it was just
Speaker 1: me and a bunch of guys, But there was something
Speaker 1: that was additive about being surrounded by women and realizing
Speaker 1: there were more of us. I'm not gonna let you
Speaker 1: off the hook, though, Jennifer, we didn't.
Speaker 3: It was crazy.
Speaker 4: So at that time when I attended, I was a
Speaker 4: head basketball coach. Johnson was university and Charlotte and the
Speaker 4: Panthers were right beside our facility as well, So coach
Speaker 4: Rivera was at the forum and me and Lowe was
Speaker 4: actually at a round table with him, but I was
Speaker 4: I was locked in. I had one mission and it
Speaker 4: was for him to know who I was when we
Speaker 4: were done. And because of that, I didn't even know
Speaker 4: she was at the table. I didn't see her.
Speaker 1: That sounds like when you do an interview and they're like,
Speaker 1: what's your biggest flaw? My biggest flaw is working too hard.
Speaker 1: My problem is I was too focused to notice there
Speaker 1: were other people in the room.
Speaker 2: I love.
Speaker 5: That's forward like a couple of years later and I
Speaker 5: had to tell her I was at that same time.
Speaker 4: She had just showed me the picture you were you
Speaker 4: were there.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's almost nothing worse than introducing yourself to
Speaker 1: someone having be like, oh we've met. Awesome, let's talk
Speaker 1: about it, though, Jennifer, twenty eighteen Forum, Ron Rivera reaches
Speaker 1: out to you as you joined the Panthers as a
Speaker 1: coaching intern for two off seasons and then added you
Speaker 1: to his staff in Washington as a full time assistant
Speaker 1: coach in twenty twenty. So tell me about getting your
Speaker 1: foot in the door via the forum and meeting coach
Speaker 1: Rivera and like, what's that moment? Because that forum is
Speaker 1: all fully vetted women who are ready to get into
Speaker 1: whatever position, whether that's training or coaching or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: So the coaches that are there that come from the NFL,
Speaker 1: the head coaches or the gms, they know that everyone
Speaker 1: in that room has already been interviewed and vetted and
Speaker 1: they're ready to go. But you still have to stand out.
Speaker 1: You still have to be the one in the room
Speaker 1: that they choose. How did you do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like Low talked about, you know, to be there
Speaker 4: in a room full of women who has the same.
Speaker 3: Goal as you was definitely special.
Speaker 4: And you know, like like I mentioned, I just had
Speaker 4: as folks, you know, on hearing the material, introducing myself
Speaker 4: to as many people as possible. And obviously I felt
Speaker 4: my best opportunity was coch Saveria just because of the
Speaker 4: proximity we had and you know, I literally lived right
Speaker 4: by the stadium right by their facility, so you know,
Speaker 4: they didn't have to put me up in hotel or anything.
Speaker 3: You could just give me an opportunity and I can
Speaker 3: come over.
Speaker 4: So that's really what I wanted to do, and obviously
Speaker 4: we hit it off. He saw something in me, and
Speaker 4: you know, my initial opportunity was for Ricky Minicamp, and
Speaker 4: he just kind of kept invite me back. So those
Speaker 4: two days at Ricky Minicamp turned into about four months
Speaker 4: being with the team, the first time working with the
Speaker 4: receiver group. So you know, as Low talked about it
Speaker 4: was how about being where your feet are?
Speaker 3: And that's one thing he told me early, and that's
Speaker 3: something that.
Speaker 4: I was locked in and focused on just bringing value
Speaker 4: to the team anywhere that I could.
Speaker 1: I think it's as bad as it sounds. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: do worry when we get into a space that's been
Speaker 1: historically all male. Are we a token? Are we something
Speaker 1: they're trying to put out there to show growth or
Speaker 1: to show progress? When you're coming in for two days
Speaker 1: and he's like, keep coming back, keep coming back for
Speaker 1: four months, Like that's proof there that there was something
Speaker 1: to prove and something that you had to do there
Speaker 1: in order for him to want to keep you around.
Speaker 1: You know, coach Love, We've talked about this before. You've
Speaker 1: shied away from talking to media too often. You don't
Speaker 1: want to be the woman who coaches. You want to
Speaker 1: be a coach, and you want them to see you
Speaker 1: as that first. But I do want to ask how
Speaker 1: that experience has been for you in balancing wanting to
Speaker 1: fit in and then also wanting to be a role model,
Speaker 1: an example, and understanding that the fact that you exist
Speaker 1: and you're doing what you do is opening a door
Speaker 1: for other women and girls to.
Speaker 2: See you right and that you know you're correct.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that the biggest fear for a
Speaker 5: lot of us has been, you know, we don't want
Speaker 5: to appear to be in this for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 5: We don't want to have, you know, a broken focus
Speaker 5: among our colleagues, or have our colleagues looked at us
Speaker 5: like sideways, like it's just it's not the culture when
Speaker 5: you're within a staff. So I've been very fortunate over
Speaker 5: the last couple of years. I think Tampa did a
Speaker 5: nice job of balancing that out for me. And also here,
Speaker 5: you know, I know Rabe set the tone pretty early
Speaker 5: about you know, she's you know, here to do a job,
Speaker 5: and you know it wasn't going to be like a
Speaker 5: human interest story, like every time we turned around, like
Speaker 5: God forbid, like anybody asked me, you know, to say
Speaker 5: the story again.
Speaker 2: I think at nauseum people have heard the story.
Speaker 5: But you know, as you go forward, Like you said,
Speaker 5: I think that there is an importance of not necessarily
Speaker 5: being a role model, but being a possibility model. And
Speaker 5: I think that there's a distinct difference in that because
Speaker 5: I don't the role model to me says you've got
Speaker 5: to do everything that I've done in order to get
Speaker 5: where I'm at, And I wouldn't want anybody to do
Speaker 5: it like that, because everybody's past is going to be
Speaker 5: different and it's an individual process and the hard work
Speaker 5: has to go in.
Speaker 2: But seeing like where we're at right now, I.
Speaker 5: Think the media has a tendency to show just the
Speaker 5: end result as opposed to really highlighting, you know, the
Speaker 5: work or the past that we had to take to
Speaker 5: get here.
Speaker 2: So I want people to know, you know, young women, women.
Speaker 5: That were my age at the time that I did
Speaker 5: that hard pivot into this full time, that it's a possibility.
Speaker 5: But how you get there and what you do that
Speaker 5: has to be on you and your hard work and
Speaker 5: your ability to make connections, and like Jennifer said, like
Speaker 5: prove yourself if you get the opportunity to do it,
Speaker 5: and that way it's genuine and it's authentic, And then
Speaker 5: I think that's the best way that you have a
Speaker 5: chance to stick at this level, which is another goal.
Speaker 5: You know, once you're here, you want to stick and
Speaker 5: keep working.
Speaker 1: Jennifer, it's been a couple of years. How have you
Speaker 1: seen the environment being a woman in a male dominated space,
Speaker 1: being a woman specifically an NFL changed since you started?
Speaker 4: If it has, I mean for me, the opportunity has
Speaker 4: always been, you know, to work with a really great staff,
Speaker 4: and I think that makes everything. What's the culture like
Speaker 4: in the building, how's the staff. If the staff doesn't
Speaker 4: make a deal of it, it's.
Speaker 3: Not a big deal. It's just another coach.
Speaker 4: So I've been fortunate enough to only experience that the
Speaker 4: players have been great.
Speaker 3: They just want to be better.
Speaker 4: You know, they can care less where it's coming from
Speaker 4: if you can help them out. So I think, you know,
Speaker 4: that's one thing about the Bears, it's just to you
Speaker 4: can feel the coach and we walk into the building.
Speaker 4: And that's one thing I felt on my interview and
Speaker 4: knew that were somewhere where I wanted to be. But
Speaker 4: you know, it's been fantastic, and I think that's a
Speaker 4: testament to the guys that are already coaching in the league.
Speaker 4: The players who are already in this league. They didn't make
Speaker 4: a big deal about it. They don't make a big
Speaker 4: big deal about it now. So I think a lot
Speaker 4: of that involves them.
Speaker 1: Quickly. Can you tell me, Jennifer, what your just average
Speaker 1: day looks like?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Man, I do a little bit of everything.
Speaker 4: So I help out help our quality control guys with
Speaker 4: some breakdowns, so I'd also break down some things for
Speaker 4: oline coach. And then there's just preparing our guys each
Speaker 4: and every day with whatever's going in with our script,
Speaker 4: making sure they're they're good on.
Speaker 3: Everything that we're doing that day.
Speaker 4: And also skill development, which is very big, especially at
Speaker 4: this point in the year when we have individual time.
Speaker 4: You know, things that we need to work on them better,
Speaker 4: things that they want to work on to get them better,
Speaker 4: and they're just putting it all together. You know, it's
Speaker 4: almost time to hit the grass, you know, for real now.
Speaker 4: So it's a lot going on in very long days.
Speaker 4: Fortunate to be able to get out a little early today.
Speaker 4: But you know, we got the Titans on the horizon,
Speaker 4: so it's.
Speaker 3: A lot of folkus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I forgot that we've got the two teams meeting
Speaker 1: in the opener. Okay, Laurie, want to talk about women's
Speaker 1: football and the NFL, because you've talked about how you
Speaker 1: actually distanced yourself from women's football early in your coaching
Speaker 1: career because you didn't want to get pigeonholed in the
Speaker 1: women's game. You wanted to make sure you weren't kept
Speaker 1: out of the men's because they saw you as a
Speaker 1: women's coach. But you've said now that you've assisted at
Speaker 1: women's camps and you understand the advantage that your past
Speaker 1: affords you, and you actually see some real differences in
Speaker 1: coaching men versus women. Can you tell us some of
Speaker 1: the different ways that men and women respond to the
Speaker 1: lessons and the drills?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And I mean, again, this is like my perspective in
Speaker 5: my opinion, right, So you know, maybe not everybody shares this,
Speaker 5: but I feel like because women have not had an
Speaker 5: opportunity from a large population since to play the game,
Speaker 5: since we've been six years old, the whole way through
Speaker 5: high school, college and so on. There's a passion about
Speaker 5: the game that you have to have that sometimes is
Speaker 5: a little bit more genuine because it's like everybody's all in.
Speaker 5: You know, normally you're an adult right when you start
Speaker 5: to play wing's football, so like you just want to
Speaker 5: know everything. And I think again, in my experience, coaching
Speaker 5: women is such a good reminder and it's such a
Speaker 5: good sharpener of skills.
Speaker 2: I've encouraged a.
Speaker 5: Lot of my colleagues if they have a chance to
Speaker 5: do the same thing, because you really have to be
Speaker 5: a progressive teacher when you're coaching women because we don't
Speaker 5: necessarily have the football like you when we come in,
Speaker 5: like I said, from like our male counterparts, So you
Speaker 5: really have to break things down and you really have
Speaker 5: to be grand in your description.
Speaker 2: And another thing you know.
Speaker 5: Again from me that I've noticed is that women need
Speaker 5: to know why. So I can't just tell you got
Speaker 5: to hit the A gap. I have to explain why
Speaker 5: you need to hit the A gap. And I also
Speaker 5: have to explain to you what's going to happen if
Speaker 5: you don't because that data processing or that information inflow.
Speaker 5: That's usually the way that the players that I've worked
Speaker 5: with that are women have learned best breaking down the language,
Speaker 5: helping you know, kind of share concepts, but really being granular.
Speaker 5: And I think that that then translates to you being
Speaker 5: a better teacher or a better skill developer at the
Speaker 5: men's level, because now you're being able to explain things
Speaker 5: two or three different ways, because not everybody learns the
Speaker 5: same so you may not be able to give a
Speaker 5: concept and just let it go. You may have to
Speaker 5: go two degrees to the left and explain the same thing,
Speaker 5: or two degrees right and explain the same thing. And
Speaker 5: I think it just makes you a better teacher overall
Speaker 5: if you can be progressive and be more descriptive.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: And I think some might roll their eyes and say
Speaker 1: that sounds exhausting, but actually it's something that I think
Speaker 1: a lot of coaches are dealing with and accepting and
Speaker 1: learning from as their coaching younger athletes. Gen Z in particular,
Speaker 1: is like, no, I'm not just doing whatever you say.
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you why are we doing it?
Speaker 1: I want buy in, I want to understand it, I
Speaker 1: want to be. I want to have agency in what
Speaker 1: I'm doing, and what coaches fine when they accept that
Speaker 1: is that they become a much stronger team. They get
Speaker 1: the most out of their players because they're not just
Speaker 1: mindlessly following. They're thinking through what they're doing and why,
Speaker 1: and then they're fully bought in and they're bringing their
Speaker 1: teammates with them, and so I love that that's a
Speaker 1: natural response for women, especially who are coming to the
Speaker 1: game later. I'm obsessed with Sam Rappaport. I would imagine
Speaker 1: that you both are too, because you owe a lot
Speaker 1: to her, senior director of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for
Speaker 1: the NFL. Maybe in this show or another one, I'll
Speaker 1: tell her story. But you know, shipping a football halfway
Speaker 1: across the world in order to get her job with
Speaker 1: the NFL first is a brilliant move. But she's responsible
Speaker 1: for so much of the progress that we've seen of
Speaker 1: women coaches in the NFL. She's the mastermind behind that
Speaker 1: women's careers in football for him I mentioned, but the
Speaker 1: pipeline for women coaches might get another gigantic boost in
Speaker 1: the form of flag football. There are so many more
Speaker 1: girls playing and playing at a high level, learning the game,
Speaker 1: loving the game, wanting to coach, wanting to play in
Speaker 1: the Olympics since that'll be an option. Twenty twenty eight, Jennifer,
Speaker 1: what do you think the growth of flag will mean
Speaker 1: for women in the NFL. It is not the same game,
Speaker 1: but it's football.
Speaker 3: I think it's huge.
Speaker 4: You know, Loo talked about, you know, most women not
Speaker 4: having an opportunity to be around football at a young age,
Speaker 4: but now they are, and I mean, I think it's exploding,
Speaker 4: like across the country, across the world, for women to
Speaker 4: get out and play football, for girls to get out
Speaker 4: and play football, and like you said, they're playing at
Speaker 4: such a high level. I was at a nationals tournament
Speaker 4: probably about five years ago, and I saw like a
Speaker 4: twelve year old quarterback launch a ball like thirty yards
Speaker 4: and the girl caught the ball over her shoulder and
Speaker 4: got her feet in as she's fallen out of bounds,
Speaker 4: and I was, I mean, I was shocked, And I mean,
Speaker 4: but it was really from that point like like you're
Speaker 4: going to be all right, Like they're so skilled already.
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be crazy to see them de.
Speaker 1: Villa, Yeah, Laurie. In twenty twenty one, you went to
Speaker 1: the Girls Flag Football Preseason Classic, which was the largest
Speaker 1: girls flag football tournament in the country at the time.
Speaker 1: What was the scene like and what did it tell
Speaker 1: you about both the appetite for flag football as a
Speaker 1: sport for young girls, but also like what growth possibilities
Speaker 1: there were since then.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean extremely competitive, I would say, you know,
Speaker 5: without pads, it was the same level of intensity that
Speaker 5: we used to have when we took the field, and
Speaker 5: just the tenacity of the athletes to just be.
Speaker 2: Better than anyone else was. It was super impressive.
Speaker 5: I had never really been to like a flag tournament before,
Speaker 5: and I know that the BUCKS hosts that and that
Speaker 5: is you know, with Florida having it as varsity sport,
Speaker 5: that's their entire preseason for the high schools in that
Speaker 5: area of Florida for their season for the girls.
Speaker 2: So I think it's incredible.
Speaker 5: It also went to like a varsity game in Orlando
Speaker 5: and it's just the crowds. I mean, everybody was like
Speaker 5: it was just a regular game of football with the
Speaker 5: intensity with the girls, and I think that it's just,
Speaker 5: like Jen said, going to help grow the pipeline, grow
Speaker 5: the talent pool, and that's only going to be beneficial
Speaker 5: for all of us, because the coaching aspect of the
Speaker 5: pool seems to be shrinking a little, you know what
Speaker 5: I mean, Like there's just not as many as there
Speaker 5: are in scouting or ops or you know, other aspects
Speaker 5: of football, because it's not just what you see on
Speaker 5: the field. There's tons of jobs behind the scenes in
Speaker 5: any of the league branches or organizations. But yeah, I
Speaker 5: think this is going to help feed it in the
Speaker 5: right way and with the experience and the love of
Speaker 5: the game for.
Speaker 2: Anybody coming in.
Speaker 1: You're so true. Beyond coaching, just being a part of
Speaker 1: the game and involved in any way makes women feel
Speaker 1: comfortable being able to go and take other jobs that
Speaker 1: are surrounding the sport is well. Is there any part
Speaker 1: of either of you that resents that flag football is
Speaker 1: what's getting the resources. It's not the same game as
Speaker 1: women's tackle. Is that just an inevitability due to health
Speaker 1: and safety and the way we view the game moving forward,
Speaker 1: that it might be easier to sell to young girls
Speaker 1: and to women as a game of flag as opposed
Speaker 1: to full tackle.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think ultimately it's going to help the
Speaker 4: tackle game as well as those the girls that started
Speaker 4: playing flag, you know, grow into of age and may
Speaker 4: want to play tackle.
Speaker 1: You know, I talked to hitting age.
Speaker 3: I had.
Speaker 4: A girl come to training camp. She's about to be
Speaker 4: a freshman in college. She's this flag star. I looked
Speaker 4: her up. She's a beast, but she's going to college
Speaker 4: now and she wants to start playing tackles. So, you know,
Speaker 4: I connected her with the local team, and I think
Speaker 4: we're going to start seeing more and more of that.
Speaker 4: And the women's leeds are doing a great job. I
Speaker 4: mean they're growing, you know, you know every year they
Speaker 4: get new sponsorships and you no more exposure. So I
Speaker 4: think it's going to be better for everyone as the
Speaker 4: black game girls.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we have a lot of like guys here
Speaker 5: that don't let their sons play tackle anymore, you know,
Speaker 5: being younger, so that it's not just the girls that
Speaker 5: are playing flag when they're younger, it's also you know,
Speaker 5: the boys too. And I think, like you said, maybe
Speaker 5: for a safety reason, maybe to see whether or not
Speaker 5: it's something they want to transition to.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think once you.
Speaker 5: Get to a point where maybe it's just it's not
Speaker 5: it's not enough to hit somebody, then you.
Speaker 1: Know that's how I felt in every sport I played.
Speaker 1: I'm like, could we add tackling? We tackling dock? What about?
Speaker 1: Okay you too, We gotta take a quick break. But
Speaker 1: plenty more from jenn and Laurie right after this. Okay, ladies,
Speaker 1: I literally could talk to you all night because I
Speaker 1: need you all to talk a little shit right now.
Speaker 1: Oh lo, Well, Jennifer, what your team's going to do
Speaker 1: to hers? In the opener?
Speaker 2: I don't need to tell her. We'll just show her.
Speaker 1: Okay, Jennifer, you got a four no preseason record. We
Speaker 1: know that doesn't mean shit, but let's pretend it does.
Speaker 1: Talk a little shit, Helo.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we get ready, We get prepared,
Speaker 4: so you know, I know we're gonna come out and
Speaker 4: do a great job.
Speaker 3: I'm sure they're gonna try.
Speaker 4: To welcome Kleb to the NFL every opportunity they get.
Speaker 3: But uh, you know, I think I think we'll be
Speaker 3: ready to roll.
Speaker 1: I'm excited the humility of somebody knows that talent is
Speaker 1: on her side, someone who knows she doesn't have to
Speaker 1: say anything, she'll just show up and prove it. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I can't wait. Okay before I let you go. We
Speaker 1: have to do the one thing that everybody does and
Speaker 1: nobody has prepared for. It's fight me. I said what
Speaker 1: I said, So you know what, fight me. I get
Speaker 1: to ask you a question. You're gonna give me your
Speaker 1: top four. We're gonna put it on the internet and
Speaker 1: people are gonna fight you because they're gonna have different choices. Okay,
Speaker 1: top four female athletes that you would like to see
Speaker 1: play women's tackle football, the four that you think would dominate.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you my to give you a second
Speaker 1: to think, because I didn't prep you for this. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with Kelsey Plum. We've seen the clip of
Speaker 1: Kelsey Plum launching a T shirt into the crowd like
Speaker 1: eight billion times. She's got an arm. That's my QB.
Speaker 1: Colia Copper. I don't know anything about her as a
Speaker 1: football player, but wheels, quick, moving feet, hands, grit. She's
Speaker 1: a dog. Okay. Alona mar Our, new rugby super queen
Speaker 1: from the Olympics. She's gonna beat some ass. Okay, she
Speaker 1: already has a lot of the fundamentals. She's ready to go.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep picking basketball players. I
Speaker 1: guess I just have a suck in my head. But
Speaker 1: Alyssa Peely like she got a body. She's strong, but
Speaker 1: she's fast, she's like mobile, but she could also hit
Speaker 1: some people.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I remember she played football for a bit, so you know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of names dancing in my head. I
Speaker 1: don't know how I didn't pick Trinity Rodman. I just
Speaker 1: picked Trinity Rodman for pretty much every category at this
Speaker 1: point because I think she would dominate it anything. But yeah,
Speaker 1: any women's sport of any kind, you can even pick
Speaker 1: previous from different generations.
Speaker 3: Jennifer who got bon Dett first.
Speaker 4: Okay, so my mind like instantly went the track when
Speaker 4: you when you said that.
Speaker 1: So like see.
Speaker 4: Like Jackie join a Kursey playing wide out on somebody.
Speaker 4: You know, I think that's a problem. And then I
Speaker 4: also thought about Kennedy Carter, oh, cause she a dog,
Speaker 4: and I think she would be a problem.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens when you progress from dog
Speaker 1: into something else, but that's what.
Speaker 3: She has, an absolute problem.
Speaker 4: I was trying to think of people with more size
Speaker 4: to maybe you know, like a tight end tight role.
Speaker 4: But then my mom went to DT, like to ROSSI like,
Speaker 4: can you better her playing quarterback, Like the field general.
Speaker 1: Your team is all gonna get a jacted.
Speaker 4: So I went to DT to run the one for me.
Speaker 4: She had to play quarters. And then you know, I
Speaker 4: don't know this lady's name, but I saw her in
Speaker 4: the Olympics throwing the raven.
Speaker 1: Yes, Chot put her with the mass.
Speaker 4: Can you imagine her on the line, like what she
Speaker 4: would do? She would don't want to move bodies. So
Speaker 4: that's that's my four.
Speaker 1: God, really good.
Speaker 5: Off the top of your head, it is really good.
Speaker 5: Thanks for like putting the pressure on. I'm going with uh.
Speaker 2: I am going with the rugby.
Speaker 1: Okay, Alana Mari yep.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I would go with Raven because you know, like.
Speaker 1: She she did go last, so that's you know, a deficit.
Speaker 1: But give names for the other two.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say, uh. I would go with Nancy Lieberman.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because she's really good.
Speaker 5: You know, I feel like she could lead and I
Speaker 5: feel like she would like put it down.
Speaker 2: Yep. Yeah, let's see. You kind of went with like
Speaker 2: a returner. What about Alison Felix?
Speaker 1: No, you can't know, you can't.
Speaker 2: I was trying to think of tight ends and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you're a line. Lady, you want some
Speaker 1: size on your team, but I like your squad. I
Speaker 1: like all our squads. I would like us to put
Speaker 1: this together. Can we get a charity game going? Can
Speaker 1: we get like all these ladies in a charity game?
Speaker 5: And I'll call you on like any of the Black
Speaker 5: Fern Yeah rug team, any and all that would be
Speaker 5: my other defensive pick.
Speaker 1: Gosh, this would be fun, Ladies. It's been so fun
Speaker 1: to talk to you. I can't wait for the NFL season.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for my Bears to beat that ass, Laurie.
Speaker 1: But I love you still, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for giving us some time, and thank you for setting
Speaker 1: such an incredible example and changing the game. It's been
Speaker 1: fun to watch. Thanks again so much to Laurie and
Speaker 1: Jen for taking the time. I know they're super busy
Speaker 1: with the season getting going. And also again, bear down,
Speaker 1: sorry about that fat all you're going to take out Sunday,
Speaker 1: LORI still love you. Oh and one last thing. We
Speaker 1: recorded this before the Nancy Lieberman headlines of late So
Speaker 1: stay out of Laurie's men. She's on that one. Okay, cool,
Speaker 1: got to take another break stick around.
Speaker 2: You're back.
Speaker 1: We're back. We're all here together, and we love that
Speaker 1: you're listening. But we want you to get in the
Speaker 1: game every day too. So here's our good gameplay of
Speaker 1: the day. It's a really good one, and it's a
Speaker 1: really easy one. You're gonna thank me. Make my favorite
Speaker 1: tailgating recipe and blow the mindholes of all of your
Speaker 1: friends and family. It's only for ingredients. None of them
Speaker 1: are good for you, and it's so so good. Here's
Speaker 1: how you do it. You just google hot onion dip
Speaker 1: and click on the allrecipes dot Com one, or we'll
Speaker 1: link to it on our show notes. And if you
Speaker 1: don't know what I mean when I say show notes
Speaker 1: most podcast apps, you just scroll down in the episode,
Speaker 1: like when you're already in the current episode. Just scroll
Speaker 1: and you'll see all the links to all the stuff
Speaker 1: we talk about. Shout out to the producers on that one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you'll find it in the show notes or
Speaker 1: allrecipes dot Com. It's easy, it's delicious, it's amazing. It's
Speaker 1: truly a tailgate game changer. Just be sure to serve
Speaker 1: it with free doos scoops. The big ones, the little
Speaker 1: ones aren't strong enough. The big FreeDOS scoops. This is
Speaker 1: not an ad for FreeDOS. We would do one so Fredo's.
Speaker 1: If you're out there, hit us up. You're welcome for that. Seriously,
Speaker 1: make it. Seriously, you're gonna be like, what the hell
Speaker 1: is hot onion dip? What are these ingredients? What am
Speaker 1: I making? Just shut up and make it. It's so good. Also,
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you, especially if you make
Speaker 1: it and it turns out great. I'll give myself a
Speaker 1: pat on the back from making your family happy. Hit
Speaker 1: me up on email good game at Wondermedia network dot
Speaker 1: com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven two
Speaker 1: two four fifty seventy, and don't forget to subscribe, rate
Speaker 1: and review. It's so easy watch Hope five out of
Speaker 1: five stars. Hope is all we got in sports. It
Speaker 1: allows us to enjoy the start of every season, even
Speaker 1: though statistically it's almost never gonna end in a win.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of hope. There's hope that your WNBA
Speaker 1: team will squeak into the playoffs, Hope that your NWSL
Speaker 1: team will build a new stadium closer to the city.
Speaker 1: There's even hope in your NFL team's new quarterbacks somehow
Speaker 1: avoiding being the latest in a long line of busts.
Speaker 1: Those are all just generic examples. Obviously, Ted Lasso said,
Speaker 1: it's the hope that kills you, but I say you
Speaker 1: gotta believe. Now it's your turn, rate and review. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, slices, See you tomorrow. Good game, Lorie, Good game, Jen.
Speaker 1: You to the folks not hiring women using the dumb
Speaker 1: old excuses that lady folks aren't interested in certain things
Speaker 1: or don't want certain jobs. Good Game with Sarah Spain
Speaker 1: is an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep
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Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Bazzi
Speaker 1: and Nisha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan, and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Jenny Kaplan,
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