WEBVTT - Has science explained life after death? 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.680 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:14.560 Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Robert Lamb. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:18.919 I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, tell me about the time you 0:00:19.480 --> 0:00:24.160 met a ghost hunter. All right, if I must. It's 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.200 a painful memory, but I will tell you. This is 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.680 a ghost hunter you hired. No no, no, no, no 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:34.199 no no, no hiring of ghost hunters yet. But it 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.920 was someone that I interviewed for a weekly newspaper that 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.680 I worked for. And it was around Halloween, so we're 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.960 getting in on the Halloween action. And this is a 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.280 fairly well known ghost hunter who I shall not name. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:51.800 And it was a sort of a It was an 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.440 interesting experience because I was just talking to him about 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.920 his methodology and in the middle of the interview he 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.880 just started laughing and kind of tossing his head around, 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.800 looking up in the ether. And I said, is there 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.240 something wrong? And he said, oh no, he said, I 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.360 just have this one ghost that kind of hangs out 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:11.840 with me. And you know, he he was just passing 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:16.520 some gas. Yeah, So I said, okay, And of course, 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.479 you know what this is doing. Inside of my head, 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:21.920 I'm sting, thinking, oh my god, any credibility is just 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:23.720 sort of flown out the window. I'm sorry, but I 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.280 just don't know why ghosts would come here from the 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.880 other dimension and then tell us that they were passing gas. Wells, yeah, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.360 it sounds like he. I mean that conversation took like 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.240 two successive dives, like like the second that your your 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:41.280 interview suddenly involves a third person from the spirit realm, 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.440 and then when when it's revealed that that that said 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.800 spirit has some sort of a a gas problem as well, 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.440 then yeah, a flatulent disposition. Yeah, yeah, it was. It 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.880 was problem, but it got worse. I then asked about 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.160 the spirit, of course, and I said, can you describe 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.560 the spirit and he said, well, he's he's a bit 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.919 of a prankster. He's like just Jack from Will and Grace, 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.000 you know number two I guess another red flag. And 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:05.840 then he went on to try to say that there 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:07.880 was a spirit around me and she was really sad, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.400 and he guessed about seven eight different names that didn't 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:16.240 correlate with any of my UM ancestors. So I have 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:20.079 to say it was. It was disappointing. It was any 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.440 kind of insulting because he's like, check out my my 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.519 ghost is awesome, he's funny and all you just you 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.919 got some sad ghost hanging around to I know, he 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.639 kept making a point that she held at a maternal sadness, 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:31.520 and I was like, well, what does that mean? I 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.240 don't understand that, But I thought it was interesting just 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.080 in the context of there was a small part of 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.360 me that was like, you know, hey, what if this 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.200 guy really did have an in line with a ghost? 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.440 How cool would that be? You know? And it could? 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.280 You know. Part of me was like, yeah, please tell 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:51.919 me something. Let this farting goes piece, you know, give 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:55.120 me some sort of information that's useful other than you 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:59.320 know that he's gassy. Um so. But I mean I 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.600 did think to my self, we all sort of yearned 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.920 for this, for some sort of explanation about what happens 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.680 to us after we die, and we I don't think 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.520 we can never quite divorce ourselves from this notion that 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.320 once we cease to exist as a living human, human 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.359 breathing thing, that you know, we don't somehow come out 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.200 in some other form. I mean, I think that we 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:25.480 have this wish fulfillment, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.760 at least I do. I shouldn't say that everybody does, 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.280 but it's it's definitely ingrained in our culture. Yeah. I 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.560 mean I remember, like, even like at a young age, 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.080 like there being a point where where, you know, I 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:37.840 was thinking, it's like, wow, what would it be like 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.160 if it's just like you know, when you when you die. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.680 It's just that's there's nothing like what would nothing be like? 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.920 You know, And that's just that whole sort of mind 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:47.800 blowing area of trying to you know, to to realize, 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.440 you know, what that would be like. And then you 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.400 sort of grow bored with that, and you kind of think, well, 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.200 what would it be like if I, you know, became 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:54.839 a butterfly in the next life, you know, And that's 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.320 that's a little more exciting. So I choose to sort 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.120 of I kind of choose to to to throw all 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.400 my belief at areas that a little more interesting like that, 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.440 I guess. But yeah, yeah, because otherwise we there's nothing 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.000 right zip zero for and we don't have a context 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:13.760 for zero. So um, but that has not stopped scientists 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.080 throwing their minds at it. No, No, of course, it's 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.239 the human problem, right, And we're all sitting here saying 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.000 we've been we're here where you've been created. We're in 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.440 a universe that's been created or came into existence, is 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.520 probably the better way to say that. So what is 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.479 it all for nothing? Tell us science? Well, first, let's 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.279 back up a little bit and talk about some sort 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.359 of early scientific ramblings, if you will, having to do 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.000 with just the connection between But it basically comes down to, 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.160 like this spark that is who we are, like, does 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:48.000 it have any connection to anything outside ourselves? Right? That's 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:49.320 what a lot of it is. Because when you when 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.680 you're talking about a ghost, you're talking about a a 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.960 me that exists outside my body, that exists after my 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.599 body is gone. That there's something in my body, maybe 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.800 in permanent, but there's something permanent about me, right right, 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:08.560 your consciousness, I suppose. Yeah. So a lot of these uh, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.719 a lot of the like scientific inquiries even have sort 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:15.560 of like you know, um, you know, poked at reality 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.040 a little to see if they can find those the 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.279 connecting threads, you know. Yeah. In fact, there's something called 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.680 the law of contagion, which is sort of magical thinking 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.080 that things that have once been in contact with each 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.280 other will continue to act on each other at a 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.760 distance even after physical contact has been severed. And this 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.480 is really um, this is what I was saying. It's 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.320 ingrained in our culture. I mean all sorts of um 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:44.280 cultures primitive and are our modern uh one. Now, if 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:46.120 you think about it, we all sit there and we 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:51.640 have these these thoughts connected to someone, whether or not 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.320 they're alive or dead, and this idea that we're all connected. Um. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.720 Of course this is magical thinking. So bear with me. 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.640 I mean this and and more primitive culture might translate 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:07.400 to I have roberts tonil cuttings, and so I'm gonna 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.200 put it in a magical spell and use it against 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:12.599 them because I have something of his. Yeah, it's sympathetic 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.520 magic like some of the oldest, Like it's the whole thing, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.200 Like I just cut my hair. I better hide this 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.880 stuff because of a sorcerer gets ahold of it. You know, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:23.520 I'm totally boned. Yeah, I'm toastman. And so then there's 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:29.000 this this other idea that UM, that this person, this 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:34.040 connection could exist well beyond us, even in death. UM. 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:36.479 And so that law of contagion really helps us to 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:40.200 understand I think, why we have these notions of what 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:42.920 happens after death, and why we even have the burial 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:46.040 rituals that we have with our dead. Now. I mean, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.359 you'd like to think that we bury people because you know, 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:51.479 we want to be nice and we'd like to remember them. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.520 But some people would say that we do it because 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:56.760 we've got the connection to them, and if we just 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.720 were to throw them over a boat or throw them 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.000 in a ditch, they might come after us. Yeah, I 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.279 mean you see this, uh, this law of contagion in 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.560 like like you know, different like heirlooms that are tied 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.840 to you know, the people that are still living there 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.760 dear you know, or people that have died. You see 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.160 it in the whole you know, the whole phrase like oh, 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.200 I'll never wash this hand again. You know that. You know, 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.000 it's like you've had a physical connection with say, you know, 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.680 some minor celebrity that you ran into it a bus stop. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.080 I don't know how the celebrity will be taking the bush, 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.760 maybe the airport, Uh, you know, at the airport, You're like, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.360 I'll never washed his hand again, because there's like the 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.440 society that there's a connection has been established, you know, 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.880 and uh, and and therefore the the object of that 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.960 connection must be maintained and honored so that that that 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:43.520 connection can still be there, right yeah, and the and 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.680 the best in the best world that connection with via talisman, 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.160 and the worst of worlds that would be uh, you know, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.840 some sort of stink eye against you, right, I guess 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.840 going back to the Toni and clippings. So this is 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.680 definitely ingrained in us um and whether or not we 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.080 realize that we all have been sort of operating, at 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.760 least in the Western world under this context. And so 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.400 if you look back at what we used to think scientifically, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.960 you can see how when spiritualism came up in the 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.640 nineteen hundreds, people got really excited about that because they thought, oh, ectoplasm, 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.040 there's all there's all sorts of things that are representative 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.160 of from the beyond um, and this ectoplasm is gonna, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.240 you know, prove it. And here's this medium and we're 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:28.679 all going to raise a table. Yeah. And she's totally 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:35.000 not just pulling out like damp cloths and one yeah. 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.120 Yeah is that from spook? Yeah yeah, Mary roach Yeah 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.920 gets into it a lot. Yeah, in some detail that 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.760 you would make you shut her a little bit. Some 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.080 of the antics that they pull. We'll leave it to 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.680 you your imagination. But so you can see science trying 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.680 to trying to grapple with this question. And in fact, 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:55.880 she even covers someone named Duncan McDougall, McDougal, excuse me, 0:08:56.440 --> 0:09:00.560 his twenty one Grahams theory, Yeah, which is, here's this guy. 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.559 He's trying to substantiate the existence of a material soul 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.440 by weighing a corpse just after it ceases to live. 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:11.480 And um, you know he does it. He I think 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.560 he does like maybe eight corpses or something. Yeah, and 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.800 it's like each one it's like this was hardly like pristine, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:24.000 like you know, control environment. There's like nobody makes corpse 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.800 weighing scales for for this purpose. First that's the first problem. 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.440 And uh and it's like it was in a barn 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.920 or something, right, I mean it was yeah, yeah, And um, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.320 and I think that the time of death wasn't always accurate, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.079 so someone might have expired and then oops, yeah it 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.560 was ten minutes too late. Yeah, it's not like he 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.360 like weighed eight corpses and each one they were like, 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.040 you know, definite measurements of twenty one right, right, So 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.040 maybe one of those I think in marriages research that 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:58.160 maybe one of those wings was sort of meeting the 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.040 criteria of sort of but he's getting this and it 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.520 was like, hey, this what this body now always twenty 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.360 one grams less and the soul is gone. So therefore 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.199 the soul weighs twenty one grahams and just flew out 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.560 the window. That's right. And here we have evidence of 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.400 the soul. So you can see science and yesteryear reaching 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.720 for against some sort of idea that there's this existence, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:26.280 there's this law of contagion extending itself beyond the realm 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:32.040 that we know. So what do we know for sure? Though? Well, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.240 one thing we know for sure is the I mean 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.560 as much as we know anything for sure. But the 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.200 first law of thermodynamics, and that's the energy can neither 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:45.719 be created or destroyed. And and uh and and this 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.480 is another thing that Mary Rock goes into a little 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.560 bit in the book, and that's that if energy, energy 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.600 can can neither be created nor destroyed, well you can 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.880 if you really get some fine measurements, you can measure 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.880 the the energy of consciousness of thought. You know, Um, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.040 and where does it go? Is it? Can it just 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:09.959 turn off? Or does it go somewhere? Yeah, that's the 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.040 fact that we that matter still how it contains energy, right, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.120 energies matter, and I mean that just doesn't change after 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.840 you die as far as we know, right, we can't 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.599 necessarily track it. We don't know where it goes, and 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:27.559 that becomes the grand problem or the mysterium tremendum. Yeah, 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:29.480 and unlike the people are looking at this, they're not 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.520 all saying like, oh, this definitely means that this tiny 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.800 little this tiny little bit of energy that was human 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.920 consciousness or or just the thoughts rambling around in the 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.560 you know, the in the the head meat up there 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.240 that it you know, shot up to heaven or we know, 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.560 went to the next life or jumped into a mouse 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.599 that was hanging out in the hallway. You know, it 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.440 might just be you know, diffusing into the you know, 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.160 the surrounding area or something of that nature. But still 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:56.160 it's interesting to think, uh, you know about it applying 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:00.319 the law of thermodynamics, the first law thermodynamics um to 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.679 you know, thoughts, and think, well that it can't end. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:06.280 It has to go somewhere. That energy goes somewhere, you know. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:08.760 So even if it's not a you know, a survival 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.800 of me or a survival of my thoughts, it's kind 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.440 of interesting to think of like the survival of that 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.040 energy in the same way that like the body that 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.320 you leave behind. I mean that if that is energy, 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.640 and you know, if it's planted in a garden, that 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.240 energy is going to transfer onto other organisms, right. Or 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.320 if you happen to leave your body to science and 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.400 you end up in a body farm right rotting away 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:38.160 for for for for data, um, then yeah, then you're well, 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:39.920 I guess it's the same thing. You're still going to 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.959 have matter transferred over to a little shred of grass 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.360 or to another cadaver. Yeah. Yeah, Which it's kind of 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.280 actually a lovely thing when you think about, or at 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.360 least in my mind, is that you're dispersing your manner. Yeah, 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:52.880 I mean it's it's I like to think like when 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.080 I go to the grocery store. I like to think 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.400 of it, um, especially them being really like judgmental about 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.720 what other people are putting into their shopping I like 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.360 that I do that, Yeah, but I also try and 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.960 be judgmental about what what we're putting in our shopping cart. 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.920 And I think of I tend to think that like 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.080 I am going to build a new body out of 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.880 the things I buy at the store today. So I 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.240 want to build things that are not disgusting. You know. 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:18.960 It's like like, oh, I'm going to build a new 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.600 body out of some you know, some nice vegetables and 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.560 not cheetos and not cheetos and tombstone pizzas, you know, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:29.080 tombstone Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of like I've built 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.720 my body out of these things this, out of these 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.599 you know, stored energy items, and now I'm done with 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.040 the body. So the body is going to become energy again. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.199 So it's you know, it's kind of you know, you're 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:45.440 just borrowing everything, wow, from body farms to tombstone pizza. Yeah. Yeah, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:48.160 all right. So I think that when you think of 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.439 it this way, then you you understand matter that it's 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.160 not just a static thing. Right, So we obviously we 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.280 have no idea where it goes what it does when 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:03.280 you die, but plausibly it could disperse itself um and 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.920 then you have the problem of quantum physics, or you 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.360 could some would say you could have the solution with 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:13.040 quantum physics and multiverse. So with quantum physics, there's a 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.440 non nonlinear dimension of life, assuming that some of the 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:21.080 tenets of quantum physics are applicable and correct. Namely, the 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:26.560 observations can't be predicted absolutely. Okay, Okay, so I there's 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.840 the road number two. So what we're saying is that 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.680 there may be a range of possible observations with different 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.080 probability in an infinite number of universes where time and 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.680 events aren't behaving in the way that we experience them 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:42.720 or the way that we expect them to behave, which 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.840 is that another big question mark? Yeah, Well, that that's 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.800 the thing I think a lot of people begin to 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:51.240 sort of shut off when you when when when quantum 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.640 physics come up, and especially when like the idea of 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.120 of multiple universes come up, because it's you can almost 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.720 explain anything with quantum physics if you really want to, 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:03.280 and and it's actually it takes off a lot of 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.840 scientists out there too. We were both looking at sources 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:12.400 from this guy, John Horgan, and he discounted a lot 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:13.880 of some of the things we're talking about. When when 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.760 quantum is getting get involved as a quote scientific theology, 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.640 which it's kind of like we talked about in the 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:27.080 Tropic Principle Um podcast, is that is that you kind 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.480 of end up building some of the same like trying 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:33.560 to answer unanswerable things, except instead of throwing like folk 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.040 tale at it, and uh, you know, in in in 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.320 religion or or even you know, necessary or even philosophy, 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.360 you're you're throwing like scientific ideas and trying to build 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.360 something that can't really be proven. Man. And I guess 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.520 the problem with quantum physics is because h is that 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.520 it's sort of used as a placeholder sometimes. She said, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.960 So it's like, well, okay, you'd have to have this condition, 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.400 this condition, this condition, and then the gel of all 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.000 this is is quantum physics. So which and I'm that's 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.080 not to say that you can't prove out some things 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:08.680 in quantum physics. You can obviously. Well, well, one interesting 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.360 thing is the idea of quantum entanglement, and that has 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:16.320 actually been observed. University of Geneva and Switzerland did that 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.720 earlier this year, I believe, at least the published earlier 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.680 this year. Okay, is this what Einstein called spooky matter 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.600 at a distance? Uh? Yeah, I believe. So, Like basically 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.680 it comes down to um. You have photons, tiny, you know, 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:33.600 little little particles, photons whose quantum properties are so intimdently 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.360 linked that one always knows what the other knows what 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:39.520 the other one is doing. They don't actually they're not conscious. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:44.240 But but the idea is that when one one photons 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.680 quantum state is measured, the other photon changes. So it's 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.920 kind of an interesting you know, it kind of lines 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.600 up with a whole law of contation we're talking about, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.920 all right, shape shifting. Yeah, And so that's an example 0:16:57.920 --> 0:16:59.880 of something where they can say, hey, we've actually have 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:02.720 served this um you know, we we can you can 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.120 actually observe it with the human eye under correct um 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.480 you know conditions, right, But but not everything. There's a 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.760 whole lot of other stuff in quantum physics, especially if 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:12.600 you use quantum physics to build some sort of out 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.280 their theories. That is, it's a lot harder to to 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.440 build a case for Okay. So that's what we're saying 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:18.919 is that, yes, there are some ways that you can 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:23.560 apply it, but wholesale and not necessarily. But it's an 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.200 intriguing question, right because we just don't know the answers 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.280 to this. So that brings me to, okay, that the 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.919 whole thing about having a parallel universe that makes me 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.800 think about near death experiences and this sort of m 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.359 duplicity of self or not even duplicity, but this idea 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.119 of yourself being outside of yourself. Right, And if for 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.280 anybody who ever watched Unsolved Mysteries as a as a child, um, 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.320 this is like you know, the basic thing where it's 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.879 like the persons on the operating table or they're in 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.160 the emergency room and they have that sensation where they're 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.920 they're they're rising up from the table and then they're 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.760 looking down at themselves on the operating table. Do they 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.520 also see the tunnel and the light and yes, people 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.080 start coming to get them from from the afterlife. Yeah. 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.320 That maybe the same episode or multiple I don't know. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.200 It's like Unsolved Mystery started out being about like crimes 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.600 and then like later it was just all like aliens 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:22.199 and and lost time and other world experiences. Scared me 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.960 a lot as a child. It definitely shaped you. Yes, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:34.600 hence the preoccupation with our topic today. Yes, so what 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:36.679 I thought was interesting and this is uh. This is 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:40.560 from a article by Josh Clark about has science explained 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:45.280 life after death? He talks about r m intrusion rem intrusion, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:50.680 which um is this conclusion that there is a disorder 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.679 in which a person's mind can wake up before the 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.520 body does, and hallucinations occur during that time, including the 0:18:57.560 --> 0:18:59.879 feeling like you're detached from your body. And so the 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.000 thought is that these intrusions are triggered by traumatic events 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.720 like cardiac arrest, and it occurs in the brainstem, where 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.680 this intrusion can still occur even though your higher brain 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:15.040 may be occupied or may even be shutting down. And 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:16.880 so I think this is interesting is that it came 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:19.480 out of a study from the University of Kentucky and 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.840 they're basically saying, here, we've got it. We've got a 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.520 solution to this whole near death experience. It may not 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.359 just be you, you know, traveling outside of your body 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.439 astually because you know you've experienced or you you are 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:37.800 about to experience death. So you know, we we can 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:45.200 kind of poke holes in that this presentation is brought 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:52.600 to you by Intel sponsors of Tomorrow, and we know 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:57.320 it's so important to scientists that they're actually uh conducting 0:19:57.320 --> 0:19:59.840 even more studies and something that just came out in 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:02.639 the Street Journal or pretty recently did oh this is 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.679 the one with the pictures, right, yeah, yeah, So you 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.439 know about this. Tell me a little bit more. Well, 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.080 the idea is basically, like I said, as we've all 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.440 seen unsolved mysteries the Purse or any number of paranormal 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.040 um you know, documentary type shows. The ideas of the 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:16.680 person is raising up off the table and they're seeing 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.560 themselves from above. So what if you were to you know, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.640 put a little picture, a little photograph, or or it's 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.159 like even you could even do it with like a 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.680 like a playing card, like is this your card, sir? 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:29.840 You know, lay it next to the person's head, and 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.880 then after they've had the the out of body experience, 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:35.720 say what card did you see next to your head 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:37.879 laying on the table. And if they're like, what are 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.600 you talking about? I didn't see a card, then you 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.359 would know that nothing happened, or if they couldn't guess 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.919 the correct card. Okay, So these are researchers who have 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.199 suspended pictures face up from the ceiling in in emergency 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:52.679 care areas to test whether or not patients who are 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.159 brought back to life after cardiac arrest are able to 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:02.920 see these pictures or these photos which okay, so which 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.520 automatically I start to think, like what sort of pictures 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.159 are they even using, like you said, it could be 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.840 a playing card. I mean, the dark side of me 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.119 wants to think that there are pictures of clowns just 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.480 to scare them. I was picturing horses for some reason, horses, 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.160 but maybe like kind of like like you know, snarling horses. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.160 Certain they don't really snarl, but you know where there 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.240 was dripping, Yeah, where their lips pull back and they're 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:30.000 all like teeth for horsemen of the apocalypse ish yeah, okay, alright, 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.720