1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 2: Business app. 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 3: We welcome to the Thursday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, India's Prime Minister is now 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 3: inside the West Wing live sounds from earlier, I should say, 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 3: on the south lawn of the White House, guess the 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 3: presidents of the United States and Doctor Biden with all 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 3: the trappings, Hail to the chief as the President and 12 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: First Lady emerge from the portico, and shortly thereafter Prime 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,160 Speaker 3: Minister Mody joined them. They delivered remarks on the lawn 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 3: and then went inside for a meeting that appears to 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 3: be running late. Joining us off the top here, I'm 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 3: delighted that we have Morgan or Tagas in studio with us, 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: the former State Department spokesperson in the Trump imistration. You 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 3: worked for Mike Pompeo, Morgan, and you bring a unique 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 3: perspective on this relationship. By the way, welcome, I've been 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: looking forward to having you with us year it's maybe 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: I should say welcome back, thank you more appropriately, but 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,639 Speaker 3: on this broadcast, it's always an honor. And this idea 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: of a pivot from China into the arms of India 24 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 3: is something that this White House is clearly embracing. Is 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 3: it the right move right now? 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 4: Absolutely? 27 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 5: I think there's almost no relationship more important when you 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 5: look to the Indo Pacific and how we counter the 29 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 5: Chinese Communist Party, India is just a central relationship, one 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 5: of the most important relationships that we have on the planet. 31 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 4: I know all of you have talked about this. 32 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 5: You know, America is not the largest democracy in the 33 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 5: world anymore. India is the most populous nation. It's actually 34 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 5: overtaken China. I went there many times. Well, first of all, 35 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 5: I love India, I've been there many times on vacation, 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 5: but I also went there with Secretary Pompeo and he 37 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 5: certainly understood, you know, the importance of that relationship. You 38 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 5: know what a lot of people don't know is India 39 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 5: actually shares a massive border, a very mountainous region border 40 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 5: with China that's over two thousand miles long, and there's 41 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 5: often conflict there. 42 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 3: Well, we're giving them some help with drones to control 43 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 3: that area as well. 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 5: Right, thankfully ge has has some technology. There's been a 45 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 5: few military deals announced. I will definitely be looking. First 46 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 5: of all, I love the music that you played at 47 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 5: the beginning to bring you back. It does I remember 48 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 5: whenever we get to do that. There's nothing more cool 49 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 5: when you get to do a state visit, a high 50 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 5: level visit like this. 51 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 3: I love the pumps tonight. It's quite a list when 52 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 3: you look at the guests and get invited. Of luminaries, 53 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 3: I wouldn't have asked you live on the air. I'm 54 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 3: not going either, although you probably should be. The list 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 3: of dignitaries is like a who's who of corporate America, 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 3: whether it's General Electric or the CEO of Apple. I mean, 57 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 3: everyone's going to be in there. Everyone seems to want 58 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 3: a piece of this pie, not just the government but 59 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: private sector. 60 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 5: Why wouldn't you the most populous nation on the planet, 61 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 5: a democracy, you know, a middle class that is that 62 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 5: is forming and rising and only going to get bigger. 63 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: Well, so was India. What we thought China was, Oh wow, what. 64 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 4: A great comparison. I think so. 65 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 5: I think so in the sense that you know, there 66 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 5: was this theory for the last forty years, you know, 67 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 5: since well since Nixon went to China, but even in 68 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 5: the George W. Bush administration, when China entered the WTO, 69 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 5: in the Clinton administration where they did another opening to China, 70 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 5: there was this theory that we would help get millions 71 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 5: of people out of poverty by introducing capitalism, trade, business 72 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 5: relationships with China, and the theory was that they would 73 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 5: moderate their behavior. The Chinese Communist Party would somehow become 74 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 5: less communists as we introduced capitalism to them. It was 75 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 5: a fine working theory. It made sense, and we pursued it. 76 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 5: But what we subsequently did, especially when they entered the WTO, 77 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 5: as we ignored the intellectual property theft right, we for 78 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 5: too long ignored the military build up in the South 79 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 5: China Sea. We even you know, until our administration, we 80 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 5: had effectively human rights right. I mean to put some 81 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 5: blame on democratic and Republican administrations. The Clinton and Bush 82 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 5: administration really didn't talk about human rights in China, and 83 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 5: in our administration. You didn't hear much in the Obama 84 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 5: administration either. We declared under Mike Pompeio the genocide in Shinjang, 85 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 5: So I think under Shijingping, who thinks that he is 86 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 5: greater than Mauzadong. Right, he thinks he's emperor for a lot. 87 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 5: Call him a dictator, right, Well, you know, let's call it. 88 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 5: Let's call it what it is. Is what I like 89 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 5: to say, India obviously incredibly populous. I think that there 90 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 5: is there's much much clearly, there's there's much more prospects 91 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 5: for a long term beneficial relationship that we have. 92 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 4: We have a lot of areas of. 93 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 5: Mutual and common interests. It's just a much more natural 94 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 5: partner and natural ally than the Communists. 95 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 4: That should not be surprising to anyone. 96 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, so there's a lot here, including the issue 97 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: of human rights. You brought up genocide in China, which 98 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 3: is you know, it's amazing to me that we can't 99 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: call President she a dictator without getting an enormous response. 100 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 3: Yet the this is a White House that has labeled 101 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 3: China following your administration, the home of genocide. It's kind 102 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: of hard to mince words after you drop that word. 103 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: But they are about seventy five Democratic lawmakers who wrote 104 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 3: a letter to President Biden urging him to address human 105 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 3: rights issues with Prime Minister Modi in this meeting today, 106 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: a record that has not grown better, but apparently has 107 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: become a bit worse over recent history. How do we 108 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,119 Speaker 3: catalog that in comparison to what we know about China? 109 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, it's confounding to me. 110 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 4: These democratic lawmakers. 111 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 5: I'd like to give them international relations one oh one class. 112 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 5: First of all, why does no one say this about 113 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 5: Pakistan when they come how many open how many people 114 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 5: get to openly practice Christianity or Judaism in Pakistan? Or 115 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 5: how many Hindus can live peacefully in Pakistan? So give 116 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 5: me a break on that front. 117 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: Right. 118 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 5: You know what happens in foreign policy, You try to 119 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 5: have tough conversations with your friends and partners. People always 120 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 5: brought up to Saudi to us, for example. They would say, 121 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 5: there's all these human rights abuses in Saudi, how do 122 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 5: you have a relationship with them? And I always said, 123 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 5: the hard work of diplomacy is not just meeting with 124 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 5: your friends and talking about how wonderful everything is. But 125 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 5: whenever you try to urge and push countries to be 126 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 5: more open. 127 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 4: We also have to remember that. 128 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 5: Many democratic lawmakers their theory of the case of what 129 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 5: human rights is allowing children to transition is something that 130 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 5: is hugely, hugely controversial, not only here but even in 131 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 5: Europe in many countries abroad. So our definition of human 132 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 5: rights is often changing, and it also is often very 133 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 5: at odds with other peoples, with other countries, especially people 134 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 5: of deep religious faith. Now, should Muslims and Christians and 135 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 5: Jews and other people have the right in a democracy 136 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 5: in India to practice openly and freely? That is absolutely 137 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 5: a message that we should say to them behind the scenes. 138 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 5: But there is again, if you want to counter the 139 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 5: Chinese Communist Party, if you want to have a democratic 140 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 5: ally in Asia, in the Indo Pacific, there is no 141 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,799 Speaker 5: country more important than India. So have those conversations behind 142 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 5: the scenes. But let's not be hypocritical. Would any of 143 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 5: those seventy five democratic lawmakers not attend if the Prime 144 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 5: Minister of Pakistan came now, of course they'd. 145 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 4: Be here to grovel. 146 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: Well, you've got a couple skipping the address to Congress 147 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 3: today to a joint session. Maybe if you saw those names, 148 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: including Alexandri Costio Cortez, maybe that wouldn't be a big 149 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: shot to you. But look here we are, and I 150 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 3: guess I wonder based on what you just said, is 151 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: this the lesser of two evils? Or is this in 152 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 3: fact a free democracy that is worth investing for the 153 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: long term, because we're making a generational move here. 154 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 5: It's a free democracy worth investing in the long term. 155 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 5: You have people that have close ties with the United States. 156 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 5: We have a massive expat population. 157 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 4: We have our Vice president. 158 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 5: Is has an ethnic background from there as well. We 159 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 5: have Nikki Haley right also with a similar ethnic background. 160 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 5: It just goes to show how much of people Americans 161 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 5: with Indian heritage have been so successful in this country, 162 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 5: you know, in all walks of life, so from a 163 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 5: from a people to people from a cultural ties. From 164 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 5: a democracy standpoint, it is any country perfect, absolutely not. 165 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: Ours is far from perfect. 166 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 5: Right. I'm sure if India wanted to do, they could 167 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 5: go down the list of things that they would like 168 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 5: to criticize in our country and maybe they should do 169 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 5: the same to us. 170 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: We've got defense deals, we've got commercial deals at hand. 171 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: Ge is going to be building apparently helping India build 172 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: jet engines in its own country. What's this going to 173 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 3: look like a few years down the road. You know, 174 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 3: you look back a decade ago at how things evolved 175 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: with China, and I wonder what this looks like with some. 176 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: Time to bake. 177 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 5: I'm sort of laughing because I'm defending the administration against 178 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 5: their far. 179 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: Left critics today. 180 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 5: So memo to the Biden administration, who knew Morgan, but 181 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 5: they're they're doing the right thing today, and so you know, listen, 182 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 5: whatever I have policy differences, I'm not I'm quick to 183 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 5: say why you're here, but I think this is absolutely 184 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 5: the right thing to do. This is the relationship, to 185 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 5: invest in, to double down on what if. The reasons 186 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 5: why the military and commercial ties are so important is 187 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 5: because India has historically relied on Russia for a lot 188 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 5: of equipment they were taking in the s four hundreds, 189 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 5: which was very controversial whenever I was in And listen, 190 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 5: India likes to be independent, right, They don't like to 191 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 5: be under sort of anyone's umbrella. They see themselves as 192 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 5: a rising power, as the largest democracy, as an incredibly 193 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 5: competitive economy, and so they see themselves with a lot 194 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 5: of autonomy on the world stage, which I think is warranted. 195 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 5: They are also a part of the Quad, which was 196 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 5: something that was started at the end of the George W. 197 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 5: Bush administration. I think it kind of died out in 198 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 5: the eight years of Obama, and then we revived that again. 199 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 5: The quad is the United States, Japan, India, and who's 200 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 5: the fourth one then called Australia. We have another one 201 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 5: with South Korea, but they're not in the quad. Those meetings. 202 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 5: We intended a lot of those meetings again, and when 203 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 5: you talk about countering China, making sure that there's freedom 204 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 5: of navigation, freedom of the seas throughout the end of Pacific, 205 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 5: these alliances are incredibly important for US. 206 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: Though when it comes to oil, yeah, do we not 207 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 3: have to ask would you please stop buying the Russian 208 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 3: I mean, it's funding the war if so. 209 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 5: It's interesting because during the Trump administration, you'll remember, we 210 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 5: had something called the maximum Economic Pressure campaign against Iran, 211 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 5: and India did not purchase Iranian oil under the Trump administration. 212 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 5: This is why I have been arguing when the Biden 213 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 5: administration says the Russia sanctions, not to get too nerdy 214 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 5: on sanctions. But I am a former Treasury person during 215 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 5: the Obama administration. Actually, but when the Treasury, when they 216 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 5: say that this is the toughest sanctions package, it's not 217 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 5: true because the max pressure campaign that sancsoned package that 218 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 5: we had on Iran. Not only did we get India 219 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 5: and China not to buy Iranian oil, we were very 220 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 5: tough on the sanctions enforcement and we were successful in 221 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 5: getting them to agree not to buy Irani and oil. 222 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 5: We also saw no oil price bikes during that time 223 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 5: during max economic pressure in the Trump campaign. Why is 224 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 5: that because we realized that we had natural resources at 225 00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 5: home that we. 226 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 3: Can But you've got Russia now selling oil on the 227 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: black market at ridiculous prices, and Prime Minister Mode is 228 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: going to say, come on, how do I say no 229 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 3: to that? 230 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 5: This is why diplomacy is really hard and really tough. 231 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 5: And it did not happen overnight. But Brian Hook, our 232 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 5: last Iran envoy, had a very good relationship with Jaishankar, 233 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 5: who went on to become the Foreign Minister, and through 234 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 5: really tough and good diplomacy, we were able to get 235 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 5: the Indians not to agree to buy Irani and oil. 236 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 5: So it is possible for the Biden administration to do it. 237 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 4: They have just been unsuccessed. 238 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 3: There's a day like this, a night like tonight. I mean, 239 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 3: we're giving them the treatment, putting on the ritz. We 240 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 3: are does that go a long way to accomplishing. 241 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 4: That goal in shallah, and I hope so they're going to. 242 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: Have a big hug tonight and talk about oil. Right, 243 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 3: talk to me, Morgan while you're here about China specifically. 244 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 3: We're coming off the blinking trip last weekend. You know 245 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: what these are all abouts? The first senior US official 246 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 3: to be in China in five years. He was feeling 247 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: pretty good about himself when he left. Then the dictator 248 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 3: thing happened? Is this two steps forward, one step back. 249 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 3: What's the purpose of indulging this relationship if we are 250 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: turning away from China, why be apologizing right now? Or 251 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 3: are we just inextricably tied. 252 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 4: I don't think it's. 253 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 5: An accomplishment to go to China. That's just a flight, right, 254 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 5: and so should Secretary of State should blink and talk 255 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 5: to the Chinese? 256 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 4: Of course you should. That's what diploma you said. 257 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: It was an accomplishment to lower the temperature. 258 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 5: And what way they didn't even they didn't get any 259 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 5: military to military talks. I don't see anything successful. He 260 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 5: did bring him fentanyl. They gave a throwaway promise that 261 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 5: they would have some subcommittee working group to work on 262 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 5: the chemical precursors to fentanyl, which originated from China and 263 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 5: come to the United States. Trust me, if China is 264 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 5: putting you in some committee to work on something, that's 265 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 5: you know, the Communist Party way of patting you on 266 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 5: the head. You know again, I'm not criticizing Blincoln for 267 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 5: talking to the Chinese, because of course you should. But 268 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 5: there was no reason for us to. 269 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 4: Beg and go to China uninvited. 270 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 5: Why would you give Shujinping that domestic win at home? 271 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 5: Those pictures of him looking like the trip us. 272 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 3: Up in their media. Actually he didn't get very good 273 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 3: press there. Well, is a meeting between the two presidents 274 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 3: an accomplishment. If it leads to that, was it worth it. 275 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: I'm you don't seem to think you should have gone 276 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 3: at all. 277 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 5: I don't think you should have gone. They could have 278 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 5: met on neutral territory. We had the policy. In twenty twenty, 279 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 5: Pompeo was furious with the Chinese for lying. He was 280 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 5: for lying about the OVID excuse me origins of COVID, 281 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 5: and he started talking about this in February twenty twenty, 282 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 5: before any world leader was looking at this. He was 283 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 5: at the Munich Security Conference February twenty twenty. It was 284 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 5: one of the last big global conferences before the lockdown. 285 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 5: Pompeo said in his speech, they are not letting independent 286 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 5: investigators in. They are hiding the truth and the origins 287 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 5: of COVID, and everyone sort of gave us a funny 288 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 5: look only to find out we were right. So we 289 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 5: did not seek meetings with the Chinese. We were aggressively 290 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 5: going after their domestic espionage here at home, with things 291 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 5: like the Confucius Centers, like the embassy, excuse me, the 292 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 5: consulate in Houston, the Chinese consulate that we had closed down. Finally, 293 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 5: finally in summer of the Chinese decided that they wanted 294 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 5: to meet, and we all met in Hawaii. So there's Alaska, 295 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 5: there's Hawaii. There's plenty of neutral places where they could 296 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 5: have met. They did not need to give Shijinping the 297 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 5: domestic win of having, you know, the American Secretary of 298 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 5: State go to China, all of the pictures that and 299 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 5: to get what for it, He said, they felt it 300 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 5: was a victory that he got the meeting. To me, 301 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 5: a victory is if thousands and thousands of our young 302 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 5: people stop dying from Fitnall that comes from China. 303 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 4: That would be a victory. 304 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 3: Don't be a stranger. I know you're in Washington more 305 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 3: often than you get over here, and you do have opinions. 306 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 3: Morgan or Tegas, a former State Department spokesperson, founder of 307 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 3: Polaris National Security. It's great to have you with us 308 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: on Modi Day. Come back and talk to us soon. 309 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 3: I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 310 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 311 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 312 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: tune in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business app. 313 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 314 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. 315 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: The Thursday edition of sound On. We're live from Washington. 316 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. I'm Joe Matthew with an eye 317 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: on the US House, where things have been feeling a 318 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 3: little bit out of control, certainly last night when it 319 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 3: came time for the censure vote on Congressman Adam Shift. 320 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 3: On this vote, the A's are two hundred and thirteen 321 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: and the nays are two hundred and nine, with six 322 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: answering present, the resolution. 323 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 6: Adopted without objection. 324 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: The motion that considers very laid on the table house 325 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 3: will be an order. This is not normally how it 326 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: sounds in the House. Allay hellwa Democrats gathering in the 327 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: well of the chamber. It's a chance Shane, as the 328 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 3: still relatively new speaker, tries to gabble them into order. 329 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 3: It didn't work very well. They weren't having any of it. 330 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 3: As went on for several minutes, and I won't walk 331 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: you through the whole thing, but it gives you a 332 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: sense of how that went. Of course, as we told 333 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 3: you earlier, Adam Schiff thanked Republicans for helping him raise 334 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: a lot of money, which is apparently what's going to 335 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: happen here with his Senate race. This on the heels 336 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 3: of Lauren Bobert's effort to impeach Joe Biden, have a 337 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 3: number of people asking if Speaker McCarthy has lost control, 338 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 3: if he ever had control. Joining us to talk about 339 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 3: it is our Congress whisperer, Megan Scully Bloomberg News. Congress 340 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: team leader is your real title, but I think I 341 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 3: like the author one better. It's good to see you, Megan. 342 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 3: Thanks for coming over here. This is this is pretty 343 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: wild stuff when decorum breaks down on that level. You know, 344 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: people might be used to watching Parliament, but that's not 345 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: normal around here. 346 00:16:59,200 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 7: Yeah. 347 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 8: I was about to say it sounded more like Parliament 348 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 8: than the US House. We've been seeing more and more 349 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 8: instances like this in the last few years. You know, 350 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 8: it's kind of starting with the Joe Wilson you lie 351 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 8: moment back during an Obama State of the Union address, 352 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 8: and you know, we've definitely seen the decorum. 353 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 3: Ramped up quite a bit for this last date of 354 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 3: the year. 355 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 8: Yes, for sure. So you know, so it's not totally anomaly, 356 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 8: but you know, center resolutions are very rare in the House. 357 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 3: You know, they don't have much former chairman yes, yes. 358 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 8: And former impeachment manager as well, which is why. 359 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,880 Speaker 4: He was censure. 360 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so I mentioned as well the impeachment articles 361 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: brought forth by Lauren Bobert. This actually had people questioning 362 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 3: Speaker McCarthy's authority and level of control even more than 363 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 3: whatever happened there last night. As she brought this to the. 364 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 9: Floor, mister Speaker pursued two clause to a one of 365 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 9: Rule nine. I rise to give notice of my intent 366 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 9: to raise a question of the privileges of the House. 367 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 9: The form of the resolution is as follows HRAs five 368 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 9: zero three impeaching Joseph Biden. 369 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 3: Now, a privileged motion like that, you can you can explain. 370 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 3: Megan would would bring this to the floor for a vote, right, 371 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: But it seems that Speaker McCarthy's gotten in. 372 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 1: The way of that. 373 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 8: Yeah, so a privileged resolution has to be voted on 374 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 8: within a specific time frame. But McCarthy managed to do 375 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 8: some arm twisting and get this Bobert resolution referred back 376 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 8: to committee, which essentially puts the brakes on it. This 377 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 8: was this came at the behest the pleas of not 378 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 8: only Democrats, but but more moderate Republicans, particularly swing state Republicans, 379 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 8: many of whom are freshmen who turned the district from 380 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 8: blue to red, and they don't want to be proceeding 381 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 8: down a course of impeachment based on whatever Laren Bobert says. 382 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: Yes, of course, you know. And now there's this famous 383 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 3: interaction on the floor between bobrid and Marjorie Taylor Green, 384 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: who has her own impeachment articles. Yes, ship Roy wanted 385 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 3: to see this happen. The congressman from Texas, no fan 386 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 3: of Speaker McCarthy. 387 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 10: How many more fentanyl mobs, how many more angel mobs? 388 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 10: How many more Americans need suffer because this president refuses 389 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 10: to follow the laws of the United States that he 390 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 10: raised his hand and swore an oath to defend. And 391 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 10: that is why we're here, and that is why I 392 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 10: support the resolution and I reserve. 393 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: You might say that Jim McGovern, the Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, disagrees. 394 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 11: Oh my god, mister speaker, Let's get real here. Nothing 395 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 11: about this is serious. Not the process, not the intentions 396 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 11: of the resolution's sponsor, not the impeachment case, not a 397 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 11: single damn thing. 398 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: Okay, then wouldn't it just be easy to let this 399 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 3: thing go to a vote because it's not going to pass. 400 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: What am I missing? 401 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 8: Well, you mean the Bobert Yeah, resolution for two vote. Well, 402 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 8: it puts people in a difficult place of making casting 403 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 8: a floor vote either for or against Joe Biden. 404 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: So against you in your re election campaign. 405 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, not in particular your primary campaign. You know where 406 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 8: you would certainly face a challenge, a stiff challenge from 407 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 8: the right if you were a Republican who voted against this. Yes. 408 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: Wow, does that suggest that if it actually hit the floor, 409 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 3: that maybe it would pass with a simple Republican majority. 410 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 8: I don't think so, because then you also have the 411 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 8: issue of basically then you get past your primary and 412 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 8: you have to to win a general election in a 413 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 8: place like northern New Jersey or somewhere in the Hudson 414 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 8: Valley in a in a district that is is, you know, 415 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 8: pretty purple. So no, I don't think that it would 416 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 8: have succeeded on the floor, and the Senate certainly wouldn't 417 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 8: have voted to convict the president, which is obviously the 418 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 8: next step in this. 419 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 3: Process, right. I think it was the ranking member on 420 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 3: the Oversight Committee, Jamie Raskin, who said, you can't impeach 421 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 3: without evidence. I mean, are the grounds for impeachment? 422 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 8: Well, that's the whole point of impeachment inquiries, right. You 423 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 8: may remember from the two that were launched against former 424 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 8: President Trump, one on Ukraine and the one in the 425 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 8: aftermath of January sixth, there were there were hearings, you know, 426 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 8: the January sixth one was pretty compressed just given the 427 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 8: period of time we were working in. 428 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 3: At the very end, what impeachment managers have to work 429 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 3: with in this case, does a document somewhere about a bribe? 430 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 3: That's that's what we've heard. Yes, yes, that and this 431 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 3: is specific to the border, so I guess they'd have 432 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 3: to compile a bunch of border data and see if 433 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 3: that's real. 434 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 8: Yeah, so it's all very I don't think it would 435 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 8: pass committee muster. But but this this way, it would 436 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 8: have just gone straight to the floor, and you know, details, 437 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 8: details be damned. 438 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 3: So Bloomberg's Kyle Lines is with us, I'm glad to say, 439 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 3: And Kaylee, I'll tell you this is entertaining for folks 440 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 3: on Twitter. But you wonder what it means for the 441 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 3: tenure of Kevin McCarthy as speaker. 442 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 4: Absolutely. 443 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 12: I mean I was on the hill yesterday asking questions 444 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 12: of some members of Congress about this, and I talked 445 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 12: to Congressman Jim Hins, he's a Democrat from Connecticut, and 446 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 12: his quote to me was, if Lauren Bobert and Marjorie 447 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 12: Taylor Green want to own the Republican Party and focus 448 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 12: on these issues, they'll pay the price in November of 449 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 12: twenty twenty four. But it struck me that he said 450 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 12: own the Republican Party, which raises a question of is 451 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 12: this not Speaker McCarthy used to own, I. 452 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 8: Think it's becoming less and less. So, you know, we 453 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 8: saw how difficult it was for him to get elected 454 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 8: speaker in the first place, and in doing so he 455 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 8: became beholden to Marjorie Taylor Green, who was an ally 456 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 8: of his in that process, kind of an odd bedfellow's moment. 457 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 8: But not only her, but others within the party whose 458 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 8: you know, other ultra conservatives who really needed arm twisting 459 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 8: and promises from McCarthy to vote for him, and a 460 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 8: lot of those were Republicans feel like they abandoned him 461 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 8: with his deal on the debt ceiling with the White House. 462 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 8: So he's really kind of trying to thread this needle between, 463 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 8: you know, keeping moderates you know, at Bay and trying 464 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 8: to pacify these really restive rebels within his caucus. 465 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 3: This has turned into a bit of a dangerous game. Yeah, 466 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: as he stood up there banging that gvel yesterday and 467 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 3: nobody was responding, I mean, I guess, look, that's part 468 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 3: of the job. You're hurting cats. It still comes back 469 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 3: down to who else would do it? Who else could 470 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: get to eighteen. It's clearly not Steve Scalise and until 471 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 3: someone else emerges. Kevin McCarthy's the speaker. 472 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 8: Yeah, you would think you'd have to be crazy to 473 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 8: want this job at this point, you know, especially after 474 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 8: seeing you know, the how would happen with the last 475 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 8: two Republican speakers prior you know, with you know how 476 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 8: they resigned, you know, amid these pushes from the right 477 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 8: flank of the party. You know, Scalies is always mentioned 478 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 8: as as sort of an heir apparent. They could choose 479 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 8: a more conservative, you know, person like a Jim Jordan 480 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 8: or James Comer. But you know, I think it's going 481 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 8: to be hard for for anyone to get the votes necessary. Remember, 482 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 8: Republicans have like a four or five seat majority and 483 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 8: no Democrat. Well I shouldn't say that. Democrats traditionally don't 484 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 8: vote for speaker, but but there could be a case 485 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 8: where some moderate Democrats would agree, you know, the lesser 486 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 8: of two evils kind of thing. 487 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 3: I think we're still talking about this, Kiley, I know, 488 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 3: I mean, this is going to be it'll be just 489 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 3: part of his tenure, right, The motion of vacate will 490 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 3: hang over Kevin McCarthy as long as he holds the gap. 491 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 12: But that's what he signed up for He knew what 492 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 12: it was, what was going to be necessary for him 493 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 12: to finally, after all of these realms, actually be named Speaker. 494 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 12: He agreed to it. 495 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 4: Live with the consequence. 496 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 3: Yes, Megan, break to see you. Thanks for coming in 497 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: our Congress Whisperer, Megan Scully. 498 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: We're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 499 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 500 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 501 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 2: Business App, or listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 502 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: Coming off the Bilateral news conference, the Big State visit 503 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: today with Prime Minister Modi of India and a President 504 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: Biden who's making a generational investment as we turn away 505 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 3: from China. 506 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 13: Together, we're unlocking the shared future of what I believe 507 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 13: to be unlimited potential. And with this visit, we're demonstrating 508 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 13: once more how Indian the United States are collaborating on 509 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 13: nearly every human endeavor. 510 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 3: Interesting back and forth, Kaylee, we haven't had too much 511 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: of an opportunity to talk about it so far with 512 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 3: the two of us here, but you know there are 513 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 3: members of the President's Democratic Caucus, progressive members who do 514 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 3: not want any part of this relationship who are boycotting 515 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 3: the address today, at least a couple of them. A 516 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: Lexandria Costio Quortez makes the big headline as always, but 517 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 3: Dozens sent a letter to President Biden asking him to 518 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: address human rights issues in India, and I'll be very 519 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 3: curious to hear if they were satisfied with what they 520 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 3: heard from Prime Minister Motive today in the East room. 521 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, this was really the big issue that 522 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 12: was being talked about in the build up to this meeting. 523 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 12: Is this idea that this Biden administration has really pushed globally, 524 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 12: this narrative of democracy needing to prevail and pushing back 525 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 12: against autocratic behavior on the part of China and Russia. 526 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 12: So then when you have the questions around potentially the 527 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 12: decline in democratic values in India and human rights issues, 528 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 12: it kind of becomes. 529 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 4: A little harder to make that circle square, if you will. 530 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 12: And so obviously there are some Democrats who have taken 531 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 12: real issue with this. I will say, though, Joe I 532 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 12: spoke with some Democrats on Capitol Hill today, like Senator 533 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 12: Bob Menendez who's the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee, 534 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 12: and he basically made the point that with any relationship, 535 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 12: you're going to have issues, but that this country is 536 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 12: very important because it's in the Quad, it's in the 537 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 12: Indo Pacific. It's a really important part of meeting that 538 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 12: China challenge. So this may be an area in which 539 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 12: that kind of foreign relations benefit is going to have 540 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 12: to trump what is going on with India. 541 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 3: Domestically important voice on this story on a day like this. 542 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 14: In a relationship, there will always be things you don't 543 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 14: agree with. Some of our longest you know, partners and 544 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 14: allies we have issues with. So this is a country 545 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 14: that is important. We have made a part of the Quad. 546 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 14: We think it's very important in the Indo Pacific. It 547 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,479 Speaker 14: is an important part of meeting our China challenge. I 548 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 14: think that India understands the China challenge because they themselves 549 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 14: have had territorial issues with China. 550 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 3: So this is a big deal. I was talking to 551 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: Rick and Genie about it a bit earlier. It's like 552 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 3: if you backed up ten or even fifteen years with China, 553 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 3: went back to that stage of our relationship but had 554 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: a chance kind of do it all over again, which 555 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 3: is what we're going to try to do in India. 556 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 12: Right Well, and to your point on ten to fifteen years. 557 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 12: Another Republican senator I spoke with today, J. D. Vance, said, 558 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 12: over the next decade, every single day, India is going 559 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 12: to make a decision as to whether or not it 560 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 12: wants to get closer to China or to the United States. 561 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 12: And he thinks it would be a mistake two of 562 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 12: US leaders to push them towards China. So really it 563 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 12: is about this counterbalancing impact as India now is even 564 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 12: larger than China in terms of population and is you know, 565 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,600 Speaker 12: an even more emergent global force on the world stage. 566 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 3: You talked with a lot of lawmakers today as the 567 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: President was talking as well, and he's asked of course 568 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 3: about President Sheep important here. This is one of the 569 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 3: headlines that crossed the terminal. In fact, following the dictator 570 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: remark following Anthony Blincoln's visit to China over the weekend 571 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: has been We've been framing it is two steps forward, 572 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 3: one step back. So you know, are they going to 573 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 3: meet or not. 574 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 13: We had an incident that caused some some confusion, it 575 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,479 Speaker 13: might say, but President, but the Secretary of Lincoln had 576 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 13: a great trip to China. I expect to be meeting 577 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 13: with President she sometime in the future, in the near term, 578 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 13: and I don't think it's had any real consequence. 579 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 3: We'll see about that. There are questions on whether that 580 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: meeting is going to take place at all. Seems to 581 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 3: think that it will. 582 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 12: Yeah, I guess it's a question of timing. And in 583 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 12: the meantime, could we see other administration officials actually making 584 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 12: the trip to China as has been planned. We understand 585 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 12: Pressury Secretary Janet Yellen, for example, already once over the 586 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 12: spy balloon incident, we saw trip de railed. That's why 587 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 12: Secretary Blincoln went yes a few days ago rather than 588 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 12: months ago, Right, that's. 589 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: What canceled it. 590 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 3: So I just you know, there's a still wants to 591 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 3: go the. 592 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 12: Right and so how disruptive are little, you know, verbal 593 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 12: spats like this to those efforts to actually have these 594 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 12: in person meetings. 595 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 3: Well, we're joining right now. I'm glad to say by 596 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 3: Senator Marshall Blackburn, of course, the Republican from Tennessee, who's 597 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 3: no stranger to these airwaves. Senator, it's great to have 598 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 3: you with us at apreciate your chiming in here, and 599 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 3: we'd love your take on this this apparent generational investments 600 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 3: in India. The shift away from China is the timing right? 601 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 3: Is this the right move? 602 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,719 Speaker 7: We would hope that India would shift away from not 603 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 7: only China but also Russia. You know, India right now 604 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 7: is getting a lot of their fuel from Russia and 605 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 7: they're buying weapons from Russia. So we like very much 606 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 7: to see them shift away and move to the US 607 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 7: and our allies as their partner of choice. This is 608 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 7: a vision that Mody and his government are going to 609 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 7: have to make. We think that as we begin to 610 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 7: see companies, I'll say this, it's going to take US 611 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 7: companies working in partnership on this because as they are 612 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 7: looking for new places to move manufacturing, whether it is 613 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 7: in telecommunications or with pharmaceutic calls or semiconductor chips technology, 614 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 7: what they need to do is think in terms of 615 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 7: restoring fringe shuring and getting some of this critical supply 616 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 7: chain manufacturing out of China and to other places, so 617 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 7: you've got some diversification in this supply chain. 618 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 12: And obviously, Senator this was something that narind Remodi was 619 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 12: asked about in the press conference that just wrapped up 620 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 12: this hour at the White House. He did say that 621 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 12: he's ready to contribute to restore peace for Ukraine. Maybe 622 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 12: we'll see how much specifically that is about turning away 623 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 12: from Russia or you know what those efforts look like. 624 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 12: But on the broader issue of human rights and democracy 625 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 12: in India something that was you know, danced around a 626 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 12: bit at this at this news conference. Should Prime Minister 627 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 12: re Mode be getting the kind of welcome he is 628 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 12: getting here in Washington, including this joint address to Congress, 629 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 12: given some of those issues. 630 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 7: The issues, the human rights issues, some of the other 631 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 7: issues they have had there in the country. This is 632 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 7: something that is of concern to us. When the administration 633 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 7: decides that they are going to welcome someone, maybe it 634 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 7: would not be someone that you would see welcomed as 635 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 7: graciously by a different administration. But what we have to 636 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 7: do is say, Okay, if there what is the opportunity 637 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 7: to push for democracy, what is the opportunity to push 638 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 7: them away from some of their partners and put the 639 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 7: US in the position of being a preverb partner. What 640 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 7: is the opportunity to speak out against some of the 641 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 7: human rights violations? And of course I am one of those, 642 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 7: as you well know, that has spoken out against what 643 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 7: the Chinese Communist Party has done not only to the 644 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 7: Wigurs and the way they have dealt with them, the 645 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 7: surveillance and the way they have enslaved them, but you 646 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 7: look at the way they've treated the Hong Kong freedom fighters, 647 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 7: You look at what has been done to the Tibetans, 648 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 7: to the Mongolians. You look at the bullying that they 649 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 7: are doing not only to Taiwan, but also to the 650 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 7: Pacific island nations and to the Philippines, and that that 651 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 7: causes me a tremendous amount of concern because we know 652 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 7: China's goal, and that goal is global domination by the 653 00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 7: midpoint of the century. 654 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 3: Senator Blackburn, I have to ask you about technology, which 655 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 3: of course overlaps every time we discuss this with China. 656 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 3: And I know that you're making a real effort to 657 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 3: ban TikTok, for instance. You probably want to weigh in 658 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 3: on that. But I'd like to ask you about AI 659 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: because this is the new issue that Washington is trying 660 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 3: to get its arms around when it comes to new technology, 661 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 3: and the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer talked about this 662 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 3: yesterday in his speech. The effort to regulate AI. To 663 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 3: address AI on a bipartisan level, and he rattled off 664 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 3: the name of a few senators because it appears he 665 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: cannot do this without your help. 666 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 6: Listen, we also need the input of those senators who 667 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 6: have spoken out on AI to join US. Senators Bennett 668 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 6: and Thune, Blumenthal, Blackburn, Hally, others. 669 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 3: Blackburn, he said, do you plan to work with Chuck 670 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 3: Schumer on helping to regulate AI. 671 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 15: We have been looking at AI in our Commerce Committee 672 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 15: and also in our Judiciary Committee, and Senator Blumenthal and 673 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 15: I have done some good work through Commerce Committee last 674 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 15: Congress on some of the issues around this. One of 675 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 15: the things that we do know when it comes to 676 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,720 Speaker 15: AI that there are utilizations that we have Tennesseeans using 677 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 15: every day that are are good, that are speeding the process, 678 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 15: things like disease analysis, predictive diagnoses, news systems, and logistics 679 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 15: automation for manufacturing, especially in the auto industry. We also, 680 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 15: with our creative community in Tennessee, our songwriters, our artists, 681 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 15: our authors, we have a tremendous amount of concern with 682 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 15: what is happening in that realm with AI where they 683 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 15: are using created content to train AI to voice clone 684 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 15: entertainers or actors and then they're using it, they're using 685 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 15: written songs to train AI. And the hearing that we 686 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 15: did last week I used an example of the way 687 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 15: it affects the entertainment community and my concerns over this 688 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 15: with Sam Altman's Open AI and jukebox that he's done, 689 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 15: which we've been through Napster with that distributing content that 690 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 15: couldn't be that artists weren't compensated for, songwriters weren't compensated for, 691 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 15: and so we're concerned about some of these utilizations and 692 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 15: those creative community members not being appropriately compensated. So it's 693 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 15: something we've got to establish a basic online consumer privacy 694 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 15: standard before we can get to the other issues that 695 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 15: AI is touching. 696 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 12: Is one of those issues also, it's accessibility to children. Senator, 697 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 12: I know that this is an issue near and dear 698 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 12: to your heart, is about kids and their access to misinformation. 699 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 12: And of course you have your Kids Online Safety Act. 700 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 12: How does the AI conversation fit into this? 701 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 7: The AI conversation fits in on this issue and with 702 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 7: the Kids Online Safety Act when you look at the algorithms, 703 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 7: when you look at the way AI is trained and 704 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 7: a machine learning is trained and. 705 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 15: Feeding you more of what you're looking for. That's where 706 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 15: you get that nexus. And then also children being able 707 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 15: to get into these systems, an AI system, a CHANT, GPT, 708 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 15: things of that nature without parental consent, and some of 709 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 15: the things they're exposed to in that virtual space. It's 710 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 15: one of the reasons we need to pass the Kids 711 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 15: Online Safety Act and make certain that parents have a 712 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 15: toolbox if they can use to protect their children in 713 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 15: that virtual space. 714 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 3: Senator, last time you were on, I asked you about 715 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 3: the lobbying effort to block legislation that would ban TikTok. Yeah, 716 00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 3: it's you know, it's the worst kept secret in DC. 717 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 3: They're paying a lot of people a lot of money 718 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 3: to keep this from getting to a vote. Is the 719 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 3: same thing going to happen on AI. We've got big 720 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 3: money that's being invested here in Microsoft and Vidia, Google. 721 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 3: You know, it just goes on and on. The amount 722 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 3: of cash that's on the line here is going to 723 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 3: make your job a lot more difficult. 724 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 15: Well, it's been making my job difficult for ten years. 725 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 15: It was, you know, in twenty twelve that I started 726 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 15: trying to get an online consumer privacy and put in 727 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 15: place some of these guardrails on these online platforms, and 728 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 15: today's Senager Bloominthal and I met with some of the 729 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 15: parents who have lost their children to actions that have 730 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 15: taken place online, or they met a sex predator or 731 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 15: a drug dealer online, and it is just absolutely heartbreaking, 732 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 15: and it just tells you that you've gotten to begin 733 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 15: to rain this in now. Big Tech has fought us 734 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,479 Speaker 15: for ten years. They will They're lobbyist. I mean, they've 735 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 15: got an army of lobbyists up here. 736 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 3: And they that means you need an army too. 737 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 15: I think we have a good Americans that want to 738 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 15: see things well. 739 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 3: Keep us posted on the battle here because we want 740 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,760 Speaker 3: to have more time. Next time we talk Senator Marshall Blackburn, 741 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 3: the Republican from Tennessee. Kaylee, I'll meet you in Balance 742 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:49,640 Speaker 3: of Power. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the 743 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 3: Sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 744 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 3: at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. 745 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 3: And you can find us live every weekday from Washington, 746 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:05,440 Speaker 3: DC at one pm East in time at Bloomberg dot com.