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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Buck Sexton and you're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon Podcast, part of the Clay Travers and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton podcast Network. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Tutor Dixon and it is great to have you tuning

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Speaker 1: into the podcast. My guest today recently wrote a piece

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Speaker 1: in The Federalists that caught my attention. Caught my attention

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Speaker 1: obviously because of my recent election, but he wrote about

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Speaker 1: the nonpartisan dark money groups Democrats are using to overtake

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Speaker 1: Michigan elections. Now, I've been trying to tell people all

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Speaker 1: about this, but conservatives don't seem to be hearing it,

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Speaker 1: and they don't seem to be getting that elections have changed.

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Speaker 1: We need to change with them if we're going to win.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say that again, we have to change

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Speaker 1: what we're doing in elections if we're going to win,

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Speaker 1: because Democrats have changed what they're doing. And so that's

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Speaker 1: why I'm really excited to talk to my guest today.

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Speaker 1: The same old groups that you support right now in

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Speaker 1: the conservative movement, they're just not cutting it. They're not

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Speaker 1: cutting edge. We're going to learn about that in this podcast.

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Speaker 1: We're going to learn about what the Democrats are doing,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully that means we're going to learn about what

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Speaker 1: we need to be doing. So I would ask you,

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Speaker 1: if you are donating to groups that say they are

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Speaker 1: going to win elections, have them specifically tell you what

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Speaker 1: is your plan to win that election. What will you

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Speaker 1: do on the ground, what will you do to reach people?

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Speaker 1: You need to fully understand what they're going to do,

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Speaker 1: and I want you to fully understand what the other

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Speaker 1: side is doing. And that's why I'm joined today by

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Speaker 1: Sam Lair. He is a PhD student at Hillsdale College

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Speaker 1: right here in the beautiful state of Michigan. He's studying

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Speaker 1: political theory and statesmanship of the American Founding. Really, Sam,

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you here today. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about this because I'm serious. It's been

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Speaker 1: something that I've been trying to tell people we need

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Speaker 1: to change the way we're doing elections. But you have

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Speaker 1: the deep dive in to what Democrats are doing, specifically

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Speaker 1: in Michigan, So I want to get right into that.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me.

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Speaker 2: So pleasure to be here. I'm excited to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So first off, I want to talk about this group

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Speaker 1: voters not politicians, which I think we have to give

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Speaker 1: credit where credit is due. I mean, that sounds really

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Speaker 1: very focused on voters. This sounds very nonpartisan. It is

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Speaker 1: just something that's going to come out and help people

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Speaker 1: to figure out what they need to do. But they've

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Speaker 1: actually become quite a large group, haven't they.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I mean, like you said, one of the

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Speaker 2: great things that the left is good at is marketing.

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Speaker 2: You know, you hear something like voters not politicians, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh, yeah, I prefer a voter over that

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Speaker 2: corrupt politician in Lansing or DC. But really they're they're

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Speaker 2: not representing the interests that they say they are. You know,

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Speaker 2: Voters not Politicians started after the twenty sixteen election, supposedly

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Speaker 2: by this young recycling activist named Katie Fahey spellcheck on

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Speaker 2: that name pronunciation, but you know, she supposedly sent out

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Speaker 2: a Facebook post talking about how she wants to tackle

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Speaker 2: jerrymandering in the state of Michigan. You know, she was

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Speaker 2: distressed by the election results and supposedly went viral, and

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Speaker 2: from there her star grew and other people lanched on

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Speaker 2: to her, and they built this massive from the ground

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Speaker 2: swell up of grassroots, you know, participation of the electorate,

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Speaker 2: and they overturned the conservative tyranny that exists in Lansing.

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Speaker 2: But if you dig a lot closer into what's going

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Speaker 2: on there, some of the things are a little bit sketchier. Obviously.

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Speaker 2: You know, they come off as nonpartisan, that's the thing

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Speaker 2: they like to claim. But if you look at who

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Speaker 2: their board is, you know, they're mostly Democrats. If you

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Speaker 2: look at what their platform is, they only support a

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Speaker 2: democratic platform. There's only one party in this country that

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Speaker 2: wants direct democracy, whatever that means. If you look at

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Speaker 2: their finances, that's what's really disturbing. You know, you mentioned

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Speaker 2: the dark mund groups, you know, and you know, the

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Speaker 2: first eye popping thing that came out to me about

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Speaker 2: them is they we've received two hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars from Eric Holder's National Democratic Tradition Group. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's kind of a strange thing to accept from a

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Speaker 2: non partisan organization. But even more disturbing me the fact

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Speaker 2: that they've they're really funded and you know, propped up

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Speaker 2: by these massive whales of dark money organizations like uh,

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Speaker 2: these organizations tied with a group called REBELA Advisors. The

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Speaker 2: rebelon network. It's what it's called. They have various networks

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Speaker 2: and corporations that are tied to them.

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Speaker 1: So that is something that I want to dig in.

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Speaker 1: I've I've it's been called Arabella to me. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's the right pronunciation or not, but the

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Speaker 1: Arabella network. So this is really this is a whole

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Speaker 1: new way of doing elections. But this is this is

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Speaker 1: what the Democrats have been focused on for years and

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Speaker 1: we haven't really realized it. And I think the testing

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Speaker 1: ground for this was really Colorado. And so they looked

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Speaker 1: at Colorado and they said, this is a red state

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Speaker 1: that we believe has has holes that we can pull

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Speaker 1: punch into and then expand and take it to a

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Speaker 1: blue state. And we need a donor network. So, if

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Speaker 1: I'm right, Arabella is their donor network is filled with

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Speaker 1: donors organizations. They kind of pool that money and decide

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Speaker 1: where they're going to go to have the biggest impact.

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Speaker 1: Is that how you interpret that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few of these, you know organizations. Action

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Speaker 2: Now Institute's another one that's ran by a you know,

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Speaker 2: a big liberal donor couple in Texas. But a regular

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Speaker 2: advisor seems to be that's a corporation, that's an actual

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Speaker 2: company that exists in d C. And so it's how

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Speaker 2: their structure work is so nebulous and strange. It's amazing

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Speaker 2: to me that it's legal, and they probably have a

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Speaker 2: good jillion lawyers, you know, to make sure that it is.

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Speaker 2: But so they have this for profit company owned by

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Speaker 2: this guy named Eric Kessler, former Clinton administration official and

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Speaker 2: former field director for the Legal Conservation Voters. That one

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Speaker 2: advises other major liberal donors and how to spend their money.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, this corporation for profit corporation runs

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Speaker 2: this conglomerate of nonprofit five to' one c fours that

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Speaker 2: do all this lobbying an advocacy, like like I was saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, sixteen thirty funds one of the big ones,

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Speaker 2: but they've started to receive heat, so they've created a

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Speaker 2: new one called North Fund, so that one's become popular

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Speaker 2: as well, that they've been funding a lot of money into.

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Speaker 2: And I think they have three or four other ones,

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Speaker 2: and it's estimated, you know, it's hard to tell with

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Speaker 2: current finance laws, but it's estimated that they have a

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Speaker 2: war chest of about one point six billion, and really

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Speaker 2: any it's a good chance that anytime you see a

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Speaker 2: left wing bout initiative showing up in your state, whether

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Speaker 2: it be Michigan or Colorado or Montana, this money is

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Speaker 2: going to be behind it in some way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: So what people need to know is that a ballot

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Speaker 1: initiative is very expensive and you can end up spending

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars on a ballot initiative by people. The

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Speaker 1: Democrats do it because it's effective. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the state of Michigan, marijuana was a ballot initiative that

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Speaker 1: brought out a lot of voters, but that also provides

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Speaker 1: a starting point to go out and bring in grassroots

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Speaker 1: to bring in people. And then you had in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two the abortion amendment, and so that was also

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Speaker 1: incredibly powerful and bringing out people and voters. And they're

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Speaker 1: picking these on purpose, so they're willing to spend the

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Speaker 1: money to get the ballid initiative out there to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they can do the campaign around that. And

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Speaker 1: so I think what people need to understand if you

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Speaker 1: are trying to figure out what Dems are doing in

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Speaker 1: elections and why we are losing. When we talk about

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Speaker 1: a C four organization This is a not for profit

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Speaker 1: organization that is supposed to be essentially educating you on issues,

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Speaker 1: but this can educate you on issues against someone or

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Speaker 1: for someone. So they can be going out and putting

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Speaker 1: out mailings that say so and so is going to

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Speaker 1: protect your guns, or so and so is going to

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Speaker 1: take your guns away, or so and so is going

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Speaker 1: to put guns in your school. The all of these

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Speaker 1: messages can be done through these organizations. And we're talking

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Speaker 1: about one point six billion dollars. I think in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two or in the twenty twenty election, the

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Speaker 1: total spend across the political world was sixteen billion, So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about one point six in just this one

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Speaker 1: organization that can go out and turn votes. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're really These operations can go anywhere from just getting

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Speaker 1: the message out, which could be text messaging, which could

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Speaker 1: be ads, it could be TV ads, it could be

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Speaker 1: YouTube ads, it could be ads on your websites, It

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Speaker 1: can be mailings, but it can also be chasing ballants.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I Mean one of the other major things is

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Speaker 2: where this is tied into is they do a lot

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Speaker 2: of voter registration drives early on in a campaign cycle.

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Speaker 2: I first discovered this and I worked for the Trump

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Speaker 2: campaign in Nevada in twenty six sixteen and then for

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Speaker 2: Senator Dean Heller in twenty eighteen. I was always running

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Speaker 2: into this group called Next Gen America like who are

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Speaker 2: these guys? I'm like this like and then I found

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Speaker 2: out it was the brainchild of this liberal billionaire Tom

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Speaker 2: Steyer and his kind of baby that he created. And

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Speaker 2: you know, it's another one of those nonpartisan organizations. And

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Speaker 2: there I was always competing with them for voter registrations.

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Speaker 2: And this is something that voters, not politicians, and all

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Speaker 2: these groups do as well. So when they have a

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Speaker 2: bout initiative or a campaign or an electoral cycle that

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Speaker 2: they're trying to deal with, they'll spend the first part

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Speaker 2: of all of this just going out and registering voters

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Speaker 2: in mass you know, in Michigan. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: how effective this is is you know is questionable because

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Speaker 2: of the automatic voter registration, right, but somewhere like Nevada

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Speaker 2: where you don't have automatic voter registration, motor voter, you know,

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Speaker 2: that could really swing an election.

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Speaker 1: That is what I want to ask you about, because

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Speaker 1: in Michigan that's not effective because essentially everybody is automatically

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Speaker 1: registered to vote in this and I think it's easier now.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the things that you mentioned in

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Speaker 1: your article is that the goal is to make it

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Speaker 1: so that it is as easy for the Democrats to

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Speaker 1: play this game as possible, and then you never get

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Speaker 1: another Republican in and they ultimately have the system to win.

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Speaker 1: We are so far behind in the system that we

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Speaker 1: essentially can't catch them in time if we don't really

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Speaker 1: start working on this. But I hear people all the

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Speaker 1: time that are like, you know, look at this group.

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Speaker 1: They're out registering voters. And that's the answer. That is

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Speaker 1: just a tiny, tiny part of what we have to do,

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Speaker 1: because the registering voters is simply the beginning, is it not.

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Speaker 2: It's the beginning, because you know, you register the voters

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Speaker 2: and then you have this base, you have this volunteer base.

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Speaker 2: Then on top of that, you know, they have access

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Speaker 2: to the absentee voter list role that every other campaign has,

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Speaker 2: you know, so coincidentally, when all of the apps to

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Speaker 2: the voter lists gets sent out, they have the ability

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Speaker 2: because of their master volunteer, to go out and you know,

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Speaker 2: be there and ensure that people turn in their absentee

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Speaker 2: ballots and they know they can inform them about the

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Speaker 2: issues at that very moment, which is an interesting loophole.

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Speaker 2: You know, in every state, you're not allowed to electioneer,

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Speaker 2: you know, at a certain distance from the polling you know, right,

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Speaker 2: you have to be thirty feet or you know, fifty

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Speaker 2: yards or whatever it is. But that's not a protection

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Speaker 2: that we extend to absentee ballots.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, whether it's interesting, very interesting.

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Speaker 2: So whether it be a Democratic candidate you know, campaign,

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Speaker 2: or whether it be voters not politicians, you know, they

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Speaker 2: can find they find out who has these absentee ballots.

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Speaker 2: They can go to their door, and they can do

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Speaker 2: their civic duty to make sure that they're properly informed,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they they can't fill legally, you know,

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Speaker 2: they can't tell them who to fill out, you know,

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Speaker 2: but if coincidentally they're there and they vote for that

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Speaker 2: ballot initiative, or they vote for those candidates, or they

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Speaker 2: receive a convincing piece of literature that helps sway their vote,

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Speaker 2: then you know, they're just performing their duty. And these

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Speaker 2: are the sort of things that we're encouraging now, especially

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Speaker 2: after twenty twenty. You know, we view these non parts

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Speaker 2: and organizations as these enlightened you know, people that just

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Speaker 2: care about our sacred democracy. I want to make sure

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Speaker 2: every vote gets counted, but they never talk about which

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Speaker 2: of those votes are and that they're only ever from

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Speaker 2: one side.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

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Speaker 1: a Tutor Dixon podcast. So this is how you see

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Speaker 1: something like a Pennsylvania happen, which I think people were

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Speaker 1: shocked that John Fetterman won. They're like, this is not possible.

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Speaker 1: This man is not even capable of putting a sentence together.

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Speaker 1: How could he possibly win? This is what I hear

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Speaker 1: over and over again, even when I'm listening to the news,

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Speaker 1: the right of center news or even mainstream media. They're

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Speaker 1: they're like, why do we not see democrats out there campaigning?

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Speaker 1: You don't need to campaign as a democrat if you

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Speaker 1: have these or organizations on the ground going door to door.

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Speaker 1: But also, I mean they're not just going door to door.

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Speaker 1: They use technology for this. They're getting them through text messages,

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Speaker 1: they're getting them with little videos. Little videos are showing

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Speaker 1: up on their phone. They have mailings going to their house.

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Speaker 1: This message is reinforced constantly with these people. So the

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Speaker 1: Democrats have figured out that it takes about nine times

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Speaker 1: nine voter context is the average, to get somebody to

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Speaker 1: agree with your issue, and then you have to get

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Speaker 1: their ballot in. So in the state of Pennsylvania you

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Speaker 1: have a lot of time to get a ballot. In

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Speaker 1: now Michigan you can actually vote early, and you also

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Speaker 1: have the absentee ballots. So how do we combat this

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Speaker 1: if they have these organizations? I mean, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: let me just put this into perspective, because when you

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Speaker 1: talk about the voters, not politicians, this is a group

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Speaker 1: that had in twenty the twenty eighteen election cycle, sixteen

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Speaker 1: million dollars and in our entire campaign, I think we

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Speaker 1: got to maybe a little over twenty. This is a

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Speaker 1: group that can just do what they want in the

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Speaker 1: entire state. We are looking at Michigan and I think

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Speaker 1: about over ninety million dollars came in for Democrats in

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Speaker 1: twenty two and less than thirty for Republicans. How how

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Speaker 1: do you fight this when you have organizations that are

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Speaker 1: so wealthy and this is not even we haven't even

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Speaker 1: gotten to the organization up in Traverse City yet, because

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Speaker 1: I know we we sent that to you and talked

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Speaker 1: to you about the undocumented organizers up in Traverse City

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Speaker 1: that they had nine million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a I mean, it's one of those things

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Speaker 2: that it's gotten so large that it's hard to even

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Speaker 2: you know, know when to begin to how to address it.

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Speaker 2: You know, part of it has to do with, you know,

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Speaker 2: the outcomes of Citizens United. You know, Conservatives been a

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Speaker 2: really long time thinking that we're always going to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, the party of big business and big money,

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Speaker 2: and now we're not in a lot of ways, you know,

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Speaker 2: with with woke capital becoming a thing. We have to

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Speaker 2: deal with the bed we made. And but you know,

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Speaker 2: beyond you know, the fascinating topic of a voter finance

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Speaker 2: or electoral finance law, I think there's a really big

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Speaker 2: issue in regards to how these people market, which we

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Speaker 2: talked about earlier. You know, part of the reason why

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Speaker 2: they have this bona fide that's able to be you know,

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Speaker 2: persuasive to voters is because they get to market themselves

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Speaker 2: as nonpartisan. We're not with the Democratic Party, we're not

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Speaker 2: with the Republican Party. We're only here to support democracy,

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Speaker 2: and we're only here to help this one issue, you know,

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Speaker 2: And I think if you force transparency and you forced

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Speaker 2: these people, you know, to really show their cards, and

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Speaker 2: you can't hide around this you know, facade of you know,

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Speaker 2: if this was a corporation, if this was a for

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Speaker 2: private corporation, this is Coca Cola doing this saying that, oh,

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Speaker 2: we don't have sugar in our Coca Cola, but clearly

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Speaker 2: they have sugar in the Coca Cola. You know, they

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Speaker 2: would get hit with, you know, a false advertising lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: So are you saying that you think that c fours

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Speaker 1: should have to be should have to disclose where they're

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Speaker 1: getting their their money from.

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Speaker 2: I think so. I mean, I think they're already governed

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Speaker 2: in a lot of ways in the same way that

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Speaker 2: normal corporations are, I mean a corporations. A corporation, whether

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Speaker 2: it's a five H one, C three or four, or

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Speaker 2: whether it's a for pfit corporation, you have to go

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Speaker 2: through more or less the same process and in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways you're governed by the same laws. So

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Speaker 2: we have to find a way to uniformly enforce laws

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Speaker 2: to ensure that these loopholes for these social welfare organizations.

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Speaker 2: That's their technical termament for the irs, where they're not

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Speaker 2: able to leverage that and abuse the system and really

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Speaker 2: subvert our constitutional process and really disrupt and forced reforms

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Speaker 2: that wouldn't be possible in any other way.

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Speaker 1: But we know that that's not going to happen before

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Speaker 1: twenty four. This is going to be a huge problem

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Speaker 1: in twenty four And I do not hear Republicans saying

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Speaker 1: they're going to do this. I keep hearing people say

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Speaker 1: we're going to do the same thing. We'll put money

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Speaker 1: into the same organizationations that have not been winning elections

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Speaker 1: for the past four years. And I do think that

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Speaker 1: we got distracted after twenty twenty. I think twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: was shocking to the Democrats because Donald Trump truly did

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Speaker 1: bring out people that had never voted before. There was

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Speaker 1: an anomaly there that is not going to happen again.

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Speaker 1: They've figured it out. After that. They doubled down on

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Speaker 1: this in twenty eighteen, said it's never going to happen

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Speaker 1: to us again. We were sitting back thinking everybody loves us,

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Speaker 1: and then twenty twenty happened, and twenty twenty eighteen happened.

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Speaker 1: People said, oh, it's a mid term. This always happens,

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Speaker 1: it goes to the other side. Twenty twenty happened. There

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Speaker 1: was all the rumbles. Oh you know that it wasn't fair,

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Speaker 1: this was stolen. We got distracted away from actually seeing

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Speaker 1: what was happening in twenty two. We weren't prepared because

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Speaker 1: we were distracted by the rumblings of something that was

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Speaker 1: not the real cause of why we lost twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: So how do you get Republicans and Republican donors to

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Speaker 1: engage in the idea of doing an enlisting people in

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Speaker 1: the ground game. They used to make fun of Obama

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Speaker 1: for being a grassroots organizer. Turns out that was the key.

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Speaker 2: This isn't the best thing to say for as soon

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Speaker 2: to be person on the job market. You know, but

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Speaker 2: conservatives have to realize that Conservative inc. They're old men

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Speaker 2: and young men's game. You know, they're not they're not hitpon.

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Speaker 2: You know, all of the new things that are going on.

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Speaker 2: Uh and and actually, you know, let me qualify. You know,

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Speaker 2: five to one c fours are not new. You know,

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Speaker 2: legal conservation voters and legal women voters and you know,

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Speaker 2: all these organizations have existed for a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's what they're doing yeah, but they.

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Speaker 2: Know, you know, they know how to organize. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the Left, at the end of the day, since nineteen

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Speaker 2: hundred has been a party of activism. They were the

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Speaker 2: Party of Unions. Then they were the Party of civil rights.

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Speaker 2: Now they're the party of you know, LGBT rights and

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Speaker 2: so on and so forth. You know, So they have

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Speaker 2: grassroots or organization in their blood.

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Speaker 1: But now they have technology behind that. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I think people are missing, and that's what I want

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Speaker 1: to dig down a little deeper into this. Because these

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Speaker 1: groups they have apps that will tell them Okay, these

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Speaker 1: are all the people that will be getting their absentee

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Speaker 1: ballot today. And then they send out people that are

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Speaker 1: very well organized to these people's homes and they say

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Speaker 1: you can turn your ballot in today right around this corner.

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Speaker 1: And the person says, I'll have it in on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: Their app on Friday morning tells them to go to

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Speaker 1: that person's house, check to seat. They keep going back

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Speaker 1: until they get that ballot. They also continue to use

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Speaker 1: AI to drill down and micro target these people. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're going to accept this message, and that's going to

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Speaker 1: get them to get their ballot back. They are really

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Speaker 1: into the business of elections. We are still running elections

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Speaker 1: like this is a popularity contest and you're going to

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Speaker 1: come to our rally and then go vote.

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Speaker 2: That's one hundred percent right, you know, I having worked

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Speaker 2: for the r and C, you know, to the rnc's credit,

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Speaker 2: you know, they have their data, and they have you know,

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Speaker 2: the technology, and they you know, they're trying to create

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Speaker 2: these grassroots stuff, but we haven't been able to replicate it.

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Speaker 2: You know that this is the hard point hard part.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, the left and the Democrats have been

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Speaker 2: the party of grass roots organization for you know, one

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Speaker 2: hundred and twenty years, so they have a leg up,

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Speaker 2: and so we can't just look out their homework and

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Speaker 2: copy it word for word, right, because we don't have

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Speaker 2: the same voter base. We don't have unions, we don't

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Speaker 2: have the a fl CIO and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So you have to find a way to mobilize the

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Speaker 2: voter base in a conservative way. And I think Trump,

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Speaker 2: to his credit, found a way to do that, you know,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of candidates have, you know, and finding

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Speaker 2: that mix in between borrowing the tools of our opponents

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Speaker 2: while at the same time retooling it to a way

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Speaker 2: that's effective for conservatives is really the question that is

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Speaker 2: moving forward. But we also need to keep in mind

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Speaker 2: that we have to find a way to cut the

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Speaker 2: knees out of these organizations that are forcing us to lose. Now,

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Speaker 2: so you you know, conservatives think it's usually one or like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we just organize or we just fight these organizations. Now

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Speaker 2: you need to do both of them simultaneously, and you

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Speaker 2: need to put you know, you really need to be

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Speaker 2: you know, in two places at once, putting your all

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Speaker 2: in both of these fights.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the rn C fight, because we

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Speaker 1: obviously had an election at the RNC and this was

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Speaker 1: mostly between Harmei Dylon and Ron McDaniel, and there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of people that were very emotional about this.

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Speaker 1: If you're in the political world. If you're outside the

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Speaker 1: political world, you may not have heard much about it,

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Speaker 1: But if you are inside the political world, there was

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of controversy over what is going to

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Speaker 1: happen and why, you know, a lot of blaming the RNC.

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Speaker 1: But when I look at your article and when I

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Speaker 1: look at the groups that are effective on the Democrat side,

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Speaker 1: I do not see the DNC. I see these organizations

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Speaker 1: that are supportive and coming around, and I think people

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Speaker 1: forget that the RNC is not going to be in

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Speaker 1: your local state house election. They have their own lane

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Speaker 1: is a federal lane. So I think that there is

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Speaker 1: also some confusion or maybe passivity of sitting back and saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we've always you know, the RNC should pick up everything,

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Speaker 1: but that's not possible. We're and we're a very large country,

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Speaker 1: and we have many states that look at a lot

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Speaker 1: of different ways. The Democrats, I think, are good at

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Speaker 1: saying this state will accept this, and this organization can

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Speaker 1: thrive here. We need support organizations as well, don't you think?

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Speaker 1: Or am I crazy?

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Speaker 2: You're one hundred pcent right, you're preaching to the choir

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00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: right now. Not to get you know, too academic about it,

432
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: you know, but you know, parties are a relic of

433
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: a time where we still had party conventions, and we

434
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 2: still had nominating conventions, and we still had you know,

435
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 2: all of these things that made parties work. Patronage, party dues,

436
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 2: you know, all of these things. You don't really have

437
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: those anymore in a political party. You know, no one

438
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: is going over you know, very few people are going

439
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: to their local Republican meeting, and the people that do

440
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 2: go are you usually not. You know, the most mainstream

441
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: conservatives or the people that are really going to donate

442
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: are the people that really have nothing else to do,

443
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: and so you don't have the incentive base for it.

444
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: You know, the carrots and sticks that makes a political

445
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: organization effective and the way you do. Five to one

446
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: C fours five O one C s fours in my opinion,

447
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: are the political party of the future. You know, they

448
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: do the gay out to vote drives for the DNC.

449
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: As we mentioned, they have patronage. They can hire you

450
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: as their door knocker. You know, they can get you.

451
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: You go work for one of these organizations. And there's

452
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: a billion other organizations that exist out there for people

453
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 2: amongst the left, you know, to run their careers. You know,

454
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 2: there's the backbench of leftist organizations, you know, not even

455
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: just you know, think of starting naming all the mainstream

456
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 2: ones that you can think of off the top of

457
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 2: your head, and you can go on for thirty minutes

458
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: and now go on and start throughout every single one

459
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 2: of those local groups or state level groups, and you'd

460
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: be counting for you know, the rest of the week.

461
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: Well, you said something key here. You said they can

462
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: hire you for a door knocker. And I think that's

463
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: something that we have also on our side not caught

464
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: up to. They're really paying people. The reason they're raising

465
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: all this money, they're paying to get the job done

466
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 1: because they see it as a business expense. So when

467
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: it comes time to get door knockers, they're paid, and

468
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: they're actually in many cases paid based on performance. We

469
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: have door knockers. I know in Michigan, our door knocking

470
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: operation was not robust. Our door knockers were sometimes knocking

471
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 1: on the same doors. They were just getting a list.

472
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 1: There wasn't a way to get feedback back. They weren't

473
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: getting paid. They were all volunteers. The C four organization,

474
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we have some information. We have something to

475
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: learn here, because I think it is our responsibility to say,

476
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: the RNC can only do so much. What am I

477
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: going to do to raise the funds and to create

478
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,679
Speaker 1: the organization that can stand on maybe just one issue

479
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: but still stand well.

480
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is a major debate point that

481
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: goes on in the RNC. Now, you know whether we

482
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: need to focus on and you know what's called the

483
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 2: neighborhood team leader model, which the Obama campaign used in

484
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: eight in twenty twelve to a lot of efficacy or

485
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 2: whether we need to focus more on paid people, you know,

486
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: and there's issues with those, you know, with both of

487
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: those models. But you know, as you intimated, I think

488
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 2: the keys is the paid door knockers, you know. And

489
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you go, you know, pick up a

490
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: homeless guy off the street and then you know, pay

491
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: him twenty bucks to go harass your neighbors. You know.

492
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: It means you get a young, smart conservative that lives

493
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: in that goes to college, who's aware of the issues,

494
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 2: who understands what time it is, and you can you know,

495
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 2: talk them up on what the issues are, you know,

496
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 2: polish them intellectually and hone their skills, you know, and

497
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: then train that person to go and be an effective

498
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: door knocker. The thing that I think the left is

499
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: good at, which helps them, is that they're passionate about

500
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 2: these issues. They really do believe they're saving democracy by

501
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: taking down jerrymandering, and you don't always see that sort

502
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: of enthusiasm amongst the right.

503
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on

504
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: the tutor Dixon podcast. We've done a lot of research

505
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: and a lot of people have told me recently that

506
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: this current generation coming out of college today, their passion

507
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: is to be a part of something, to be an

508
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: activist in some way, to feel like there's some calling

509
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: that they have, and oftentimes it doesn't necessarily mean that

510
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: it's something that they have historically been passionate about. They

511
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: can get sucked into something to have that excitement of

512
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 1: being an activist, and we're not doing a great job

513
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 1: of meeting those people, finding them and having them come

514
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: out on our side. But I think that we have

515
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: so many really smart issues to tackle right now. Right now.

516
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: The fact that we could go after safe communities. Let's

517
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: have safe communities such a common sense idea. I mean,

518
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: it's a fundamental government that we're going to provide safe communities,

519
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: and we have missed with young people on that. That

520
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: says a lot about what we're not doing. I mean

521
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: even family values, economy, these issues that are so common sense.

522
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: We've missed on these issues, and we've let the left

523
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: just move into this place. So I think that what

524
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: you said was key that we have to be fighting

525
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: back against their machine and seeing if there's a way

526
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: to recap their machine. But that doesn't mean we don't

527
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 1: have our own machine.

528
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. You need to find a way to

529
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 2: replicate what these people are doing and use it for

530
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: conservative causes like you intimated, you know, the nuclear family,

531
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: family values. You know, we're quickly becoming the party of

532
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 2: the middle class and blue collar workers. You know, how

533
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,199
Speaker 2: are we going to do that? You know, how do

534
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 2: we get into those places and into those electorates. And

535
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 2: the only way you do that is through organizing. You know,

536
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: you need to go and talk to your neighbors, and

537
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,239
Speaker 2: you need someone to make the case intelligently. And you know,

538
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: like you said, you need nine voter contacts, you know,

539
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: to make your point to someone. And you know one

540
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 2: of those has to be you see, you know, the

541
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: sign on your neighbor's porch, and then you know, you

542
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 2: get the text message, and then you see the commercial

543
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: and then you make gets you thinking about it, and

544
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, you know, you get a

545
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: knock on your door on Sunday morning and you see,

546
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: hopefully a well dressed, intelligent young man or woman who

547
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 2: can articulate the issue to you and make you go

548
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: oh wow. You know, that's I didn't think about it

549
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: that way, you know, And that's the cherry on the top.

550
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: And then you have that voter if I can talk

551
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: to one thing really quick. You know, the R and

552
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 2: C part of the issue of how the right does

553
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 2: grassroots organization is they're really compare concerned with just blanket numbers.

554
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 2: You know, there's like you need to go knock you know,

555
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 2: a gajillion doors. And for someone who worked for the

556
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 2: rn C, you know, you get tired. You know, you're

557
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: working sixty hour weeks, and they're so focused on just

558
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 2: the number of contacts and just making that contact. They're

559
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: not concerned with actually making convincing that voter about the issue.

560
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that we really need to be

561
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 2: focusing on, is how to defeat the advantage that the

562
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 2: left has in marketing and show the people what these

563
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: things are. Take abortion for example, So what.

564
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: Would you say, yeah, yeah, go through what you would

565
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: do at from a marketing standpoint.

566
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: So take abortion for Example's that's one that we've lost

567
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 2: on in Michigan and a couple other places, you know,

568
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 2: and you can't do you know, in a really extreme position.

569
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: But if you go and you market to people. You know,

570
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: if you ask what's your opinion on abortion in five

571
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: different ways? Do you support Roe v Wade? Most people

572
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: say yes. But then if you ask do you support

573
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: a heartbeat bill, They'll be like, no, I don't support

574
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: a heartbeat bill. Then you ask them be a weeks,

575
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 2: do you support abortion after twelve weeks? And the majority

576
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: of people say no, And they have no idea that

577
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: all three of those things, like the heartbeat thing and

578
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: the twelve weeks are actually the same position. Being for

579
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 2: Roe v. Wade and being for against abortion after twelve

580
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 2: weeks are antithetical positions, right, So you have to find,

581
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: you know, and you can do this on a number

582
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: of myriad of issues. You know, I personally think that

583
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: the nuclear family, restoring and educating about constitutional government, being

584
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: the party of the middle class or are major winning issues.

585
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: And like I said, educating a smart, young, you know,

586
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: outfit that can go out there and make that case

587
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: the voters nationwide at the local level is the key

588
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: to win. You know. You have to take these tools

589
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: and we have to retool them. It's pretty simple, you know,

590
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: I mean, easier said than done, you know, but the

591
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: playbook is sitting right there in front of us, and

592
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: we're being defeated by every single election cycle.

593
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: What do you say, just really quick, I don't want

594
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: to take too much of your time, but for the

595
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: people who are still stuck on, we have to go

596
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: back to voting one day and then we'll win, and

597
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: we have to stop them from bringing in ballots and

598
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: all of that. What is your response to that, because

599
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: I think that that's living in a dream land.

600
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, one thing I always like to tell

601
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 2: people is that we need to get out of the

602
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: infomercial idea of politics. You know, this one quick fix

603
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: is going to solve all of democracy's problem, you know.

604
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 2: And if we just do this one thing and then

605
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, we're going to win, and we're

606
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: gonna be Reagan shining City on a hill, and we'll

607
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 2: go back to the nineteen eighties or whatever it is.

608
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: You know, there's no such thing as a quick fix

609
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: in politics. You know, these are systemic organizations. I have

610
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: a professor, Kevin Slack, who talks a lot about the

611
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: long march of the through the institutions of the left.

612
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: You know, this has been burgeoning on below the surface.

613
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: It has just been now starting to spill up for

614
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: the past sixty years, if not more than that. So

615
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: it's going to take time. That doesn't mean that we're defeated,

616
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean there's not wins to be made, but

617
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: it does mean that we need to reorientate ourselves to

618
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 2: a modern idea about politics and focus on ways that

619
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: we can actually win. You know, yes we need elect Republicans,

620
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: Yes we need to point out blatant voter fraud where

621
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: it exists. But you know, let's not put all our

622
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 2: eggs in one basket and then when the court case

623
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 2: falls through, you know, sitting there with our hands in

624
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: our pockets, been like, oh, well, the court case didn't win.

625
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: You know, guess there's nothing else we can do.

626
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: I think that we have to remind people that I

627
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 1: don't think there's ever been an election, a big election,

628
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: that the court has said, yeah, I'm going to overturn

629
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: the will of the people. The court wants the will

630
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: of the people to go through, and so we have

631
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: to figure out how to win at election time. On

632
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: election day, you know, we need to figure out how

633
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: to win and not try to go back and fight

634
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: those battles because that's simply not going to work. I

635
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: had so many people afterwards say, why aren't you saying

636
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: you want a legal battle and you want this and

637
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: that I mean that just is it's not something the

638
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: court wants to do, is to overturn an election.

639
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: No, it's not. You know, at the end of the day,

640
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: the court is going to maintain status quo, especially amongst

641
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 2: the right, you know, you have you know, unfortunately the

642
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 2: activist judges are mostly on the left. You know, you

643
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: have in Wisconsin this past time a judge running on

644
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: overturning abortion or overturning abortion you know, restrictions in the state,

645
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: which I think is obscene, you know, But we just

646
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: we have to accept that we don't have those sort

647
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: of judges on the right, you know, And so the

648
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: only way we're going to win is in the ballot box.

649
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: And we have to accept that we're fighting in a

650
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: system that is structurally positioned against us. We need to

651
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: find ways to be creative, you know, to be competitive,

652
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: and that doesn't and that means getting out of the

653
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 2: framework that this is still the nineteen nineties or the

654
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: two thousands. Things have changed. Do we need to adapt

655
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: with time?

656
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: Well, I love talking to you and I could probably

657
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: talk about this for another hour. I would love to

658
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: have you back on sometime as we get closer to

659
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: the election and we see some of this happening. I

660
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: think the message that I want people to know is

661
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: all is not lost. I mean, I know this sounds

662
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: a little bit dark because we're saying we've got to

663
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,239
Speaker 1: change what we're doing. That's the opportunity. We now know

664
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: that we did something wrong in twenty twenty and twenty two.

665
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: We have an opportunity in twenty four to change that.

666
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: So talk to the folks that you know are activist,

667
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: our activists, or are are putting together a C four.

668
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: Give to those organizations if you feel like they're going

669
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: to do the work on the ground, but ask them

670
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: what they're going to do to get there. I think

671
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: that's been something we've been blindly giving to groups that

672
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 1: haven't necessarily been doing that on the ground, and I

673
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: want to see people really doing that. Sam Lair, thank

674
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: you so much for being on the podcast today. Really

675
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: appreciate it.

676
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: It was a real pleasure. I'm glad that people are

677
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 2: starting to become aware of this issue. Although I sound pessimistic,

678
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 2: I am actually truly optimistic. I think that you know

679
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 2: once you identify the problem. We have the ability to

680
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: make actual, effectual change in this country. And so I

681
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 2: hope that people, you know, hear this message and think

682
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: about really the way that they can be participate in,

683
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: you know, our republic and help to get in the

684
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 2: good fight and push the ball a little bit more

685
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: further for you know, the values that this country was

686
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: founded on.

687
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I thought all Hillsdale grads are optimists. I thought

688
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: that's like a requirement. It is.

689
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a although it's kind of hard.

690
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,760
Speaker 2: You know, once you read a you know, Aristotle psycho

691
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: regime you hear about, you know, you compare that to

692
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: where we are now. It's sometimes it's hard to be optimistic,

693
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: but you know, I'm doing my best.

694
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: Well. Thank you, Thank you again for coming on, and

695
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 1: thank all of you for joining us on the Tutor

696
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to Tutor

697
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: dixonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, or check

698
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

699
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and make sure you always join

700
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: us on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have an awesome day,