WEBVTT - Ep. 252: A Sideways Thumb on 2020 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You Can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.680 predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:26.479 most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.640 app from the iTunes or Google play Store. Now where 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:36.599 you stand with on X All right here we are 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:42.800 half half remote, like half COVID remote and more than 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.360 half COVID remote two thirds COVID remote. I'll tell you 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.280 what I mean by that. In that um, Joannice and 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:55.680 Brody Henderson are in um Our studio. How's it feel 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.040 over there? Guys? Back to you great, wish you were here? 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.520 Ah am on Maybe I'm on my third I might 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:06.000 be on my third or fourth quarantine. I'm not totally sure. Yeah, 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.160 I'm waiting on Seth to get his latest result. Who 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:16.200 like he already had COVID now he's maybe got it again. Um, 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.160 all of his buddies got it, so there's a good 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.920 chance he does. Yeah. His theory, Seth feels like when 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.200 he had it, he didn't have it, but now he 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.319 has it. But I got twenty bucks riding on the 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.559 fact that he doesn't have it. But like he already 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.720 had it. You're bet in history hasn't gone so well lately? 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.920 Were you talking about? Man? I just one a thousand 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.360 bucks on pebble mind probably I lost two hundred on 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:47.960 the election, made a hundred on a different election related bet, 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:53.840 and then picked up with the thousand. I need to 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.000 forgive the thousand because it's with a family member and 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:58.600 that's that's the kind of money that like causes tensions. 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:02.560 So I'm gonna find a way to let her off. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:08.560 But also joined by Clay Nucomb. Thanks Clay, who's who's remote, 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.760 not quarantined, but remote? And uh with Fosberg from tr 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:17.679 CP from the very functional, the very functional city of Washington, 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.920 d C. Where no one does anything weird. Oh no, 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.040 normalist can be What what's the general climate like in 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.000 d C? And not not? I don't mean like the weather, 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.120 but is you know, is it just like business as 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.560 usual or people scratching their heads or what? Yeah, that's 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:36.600 more or less business as usual. I mean we got 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.960 used to the unusual now, so you know, there's a 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:41.920 bunch of stuff going on, and you know, people are 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:45.760 just sort of waiting for the latest mails from the past. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.360 I got you. Um, well, we'll talk a lot more 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.000 about dings and d C dings in a minute. But Clay, 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.120 I'm surprised you don't know. Clay recently did for us 0:02:55.320 --> 0:03:00.720 a video, a wonderful video, um about how to make 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:08.000 Christmas ornaments with squirrel tails. Yeah, yeah, I think I 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.200 know where you're going with this. Well, first, I'm going 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.679 with the fact that you're a video making machine. Man. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:19.560 It was you know, I'm pretty crafty too, so kind 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:28.480 of home mecky crafty claiming a video. It's out right, 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.840 like I saw that that's on It's on Meteor, Instagram, mete, 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.840 your website, Facebook, It's out there, man. Yeah, it's like 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.440 viral man went viral plays. Play's got virality And by 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.520 that I don't mean covid. But um, I'm surprised you 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:49.080 don't know about tail slitters and tail strippers. I you 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.280 you will soon because that has bought you one of 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:56.120 each man. But well, hey, you know what, So Steve 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.000 texted me the other day and I knew he was 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.720 watching my video, and he said you not have a 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.880 tail stripper and almost texted you back that you were 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.120 like one of the Internet trolls, Like you know how 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.800 many people have asked me that troll on text? I'm 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:17.440 a text troll. Hey, you know what man, I grew 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:23.040 up using Listen, man, yes, I mean that's my tail strippers, 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.560 green sticks, two of them, to green sticks, but with 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.400 a squirrel tail. It was just easy enough to do 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.840 it with hand, you know, by hand. Well, I got 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.760 it what I thought for sure you would say when 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:35.440 I asked you if you had a tail slitter and 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.599 a tail stripper, I thought you would say, I do. 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.200 But I don't want to discourage people from doing this 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:47.000 by making them think you needed fancy equipment. Mm hmm. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.800 And listen, don't say that it was that. I'm that 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:57.839 it's trolling. It's a text trolling is when you do 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.760 it in a public format as a way to like 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.679 put people in their plates. I sent you a private 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:10.000 text okay, complete, you in your place, and then and 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:14.120 then turned around and ordered one for you as a gift. 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:20.800 That's that's pretty high level, high level thoughtful. He's saving 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:25.680 you from future trolling. Yeah, yeah, well it was it 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.839 was what you thought. The foresight that you thought that 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.080 I had to like make this do it yourself video. 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:34.600 It would have been cool if I would have thought that, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.039 but I didn't think that. I just didn't have I 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.200 just didn't have the gear. Can you guys explain the 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:46.040 whole point of Yeah, okay, to understand a tail stripper, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:52.640 take your middle finger and index finger and put them together, Okay, 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.360 like you're making the peace sign, but then sandwich your 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.760 fingers together. Now, imagine that right at your middle knuckle, 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.800 you were to drill a hole right where your fingers touch, 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.520 and then you were to take your fingers and clamp 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.200 them around the tailbone so that that little hole you 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:21.520 drilled was accommodating the tailbone. Then you grab that device 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.000 and pull and it strips the bone right out of 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.280 the tail. The tail slitting guide is like a long 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.600 sliver of metal with a with a groove in it, 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:35.760 and you insert that into the tail fox, coons, squirrel, whatever, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.440 and then just run your knife down that groove and 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.240 it slits the tail open so you can dry it 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:47.160 out without having a bony spine inside. I didn't know 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.800 the tail slitter existed. I didn't know about the tail strippers, 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.680 but the tail slitter that is totally new to me. Yeah, 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:59.720 or do you want to aluminum? Right? Uh? Quick note 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:02.599 on a Yanni, you'll like this. Um, Seth and I 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.800 were before he got uh got to thinking he had 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.800 COVID all over again. Um, we were squirrel hunting and 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.920 we've been we've embarked on a project that you'll probably 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.040 want to get involved in. Where we were, we had 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.520 some fox squirrels the side of the the house cats and 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.400 where you guys got a black face fox squirrel, which 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:26.560 is way cool. No, that was a great That was 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.320 a gray. That's a black face gray, even though it's huge. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:33.200 I'm sure it's a black face gray. I mean it 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:35.440 was equal to those fox squirrel. I think it's a 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:41.960 black face gray either way. Me, Seth, Matt, we're getting 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:45.720 um and we started our collection. We're all getting a 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:53.120 complete set of tanned squirrel hides, Eastern gray, black face 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.080 gray fox, and then on and on and on until 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.240 I have the full So we're gonna start flashing and 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.840 stretching those and we're each gonna have a collection. I 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.400 just got a couple of Montana fox squirrels last week. 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.680 That's one other. What's your plan for displaying those? Steve 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.400 hang him on a string, like, just let him drape. 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.200 Are you gonna put him on a wall? Hang on 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:22.680 a wall. I look, I look classy. Look great. Um. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.440 One other quick thing we did Clay that I thought 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:27.640 you might find interesting. The day after Thanksgiving, we made 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:32.920 a bunch of raccoon barbecue sandwiches. Mm hmm, very good. 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.160 I put my oven on four and browned all the 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:39.480 legs and whatnot in the back pieces in my oven 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.480 for a long time. Then I pressure cooked him for 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:46.120 twenty minutes. Then we picked it, put barbecue sauce in it, 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:53.160 got cole slaw, pickles, and brioche buns. Yeah sounds good. 0:08:53.280 --> 0:09:00.000 Um uh. My brother's buddy had him, so he brought 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:05.079 it all over. While we're on cooking, Can I uh 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.320 share a little something I learned. I think you guys 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:08.880 would all like to hear about because you can go 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.040 home and try it if you don't haven't tried it yet. 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:13.880 And for the for the life of me, I cannot remember, 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.360 I've texted three separate people saying, Hey, were you the 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:19.640 one that told me that you're family and your wife 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.520 really like smash burgers like Venison Burger has done smashed 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.680 burger style? Like, don't know what you're talking about, so 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:31.600 obviously wasn't you either? Very simple all you do is 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.680 you just get a instead of making patties, you make balls, 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.840 just venison balls, season them if you want or whatever. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.200 I did, just playing, you know, with whatever my temper 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:46.800 sent fat in there big as well. Yeah, but not 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.080 not like it's probably just a little bit bigger than 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.560 a golf ball. Not quite the size of a um 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.920 you know, tennis ball. Not the same amount of meat 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:57.880 you would use for a regular quarter pound patty that 0:09:57.920 --> 0:09:59.800 you like, like you normally cook your burgers at home, 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:04.960 right it. And if you're saying there's a big difference 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.360 between a golf ball and a tennis ball, yeah, I 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.040 said somewhere in between. Okay, I can't think of a 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.640 ball that lands right in between those two handball racketball, Yeah, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.400 there you go, that would work. Okay, So I make 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:23.000 a piece of meat like a super hot skill it 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.560 or flat top grill. Okay, it's gotta be flat No, can't, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.520 can't be a grill, get it smoking hot? You put 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.920 I was doing three at a time. You put those 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.120 balls and spread them out evenly onto that skillet you 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:39.520 know I had. I must have been just like a 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.199 ten inch skillet. I guess that I have at home 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:43.720 that I was using. And then at first I started 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.400 with a slotted spatula, but I realized I wasn't gonna 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.760 be able to move fast enough. So I had another, 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.520 uh skill it where I could just put it on 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.720 top of these balls and just squish them until until 0:10:54.760 --> 0:11:01.640 they were you know, figuratively paper thin hot spish balls 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.840 you're looking for, Yeah, paper thin patties, And so you 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.800 literally squish them down. They cook like that for less 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.640 than a minute. You flip them, throw some salt on there, 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.520 put a piece of cheese on there, let them cook 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.679 for another thirty seconds and they're done, which is another 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:20.679 cool thing about them. As they cook super super fast. Um, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:22.839 you kind of get like weird edges, and you get 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:27.880 a little bit more just browned kind of bits and 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.040 pieces on your burger than you would I think doing 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:33.200 the normal patty. Um, so it gives you a little 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.760 more more carmelization in the mouth, a little bit more 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.880 crispy edges. But yeah, the kids each just had one, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.640 and uh, I did a triple on mine, and I 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.840 had cheese in between each layer and meat and uh, 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.320 much much different eating experience than your standard make patty 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:56.600 and throw it on your grill. Cheese burger. How does 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.920 the burger know that it was squi on the grill 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:03.240 as opposed to on a cutting boarder on a plate. 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.640 I didn't try to do it ahead of time. So 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.680 maybe you could do it ahead of time and just 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.680 put him skinny like, but you're working with something hopefully 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.120 it's gonna be so thin that I imagine that it'd 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.040 be fragile if you try to make them that thin 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:22.640 ahead of time. That makes sense. Yeah, you wouldn't be 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:24.880 able to move it around. And the internet is full 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.600 of If you just type in smashburger recipe, there's there's, 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.000 you know, tons of recipes out there to read. I 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.840 think that's the way a lot of these uh Burger 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.160 franchise restaurants to it. Like the cool it's like in 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.880 and out burger. I think does that some of the 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:45.320 burger I'm not familiar with that one. Yeah, you guys 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.120 know how we were talking recently about those those crazy 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.400 footprints that came out of New Mexico, where it was 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:57.240 the an individual walked along a path and then walked 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.319 back along that same path some thousands of years ago, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:05.000 and in the time between when he or she passed 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.760 through the second time a mammoth and a giant ground 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:14.000 sloth had crossed her trail in White Sands National Park 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.720 or National Monument, whatever the hell it is. A guy 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:23.079 from Australia wrote in about these crazy fossilized footprints from Australia. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.280 It was from these hunters of about twenty years ago. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.520 And there's like a few sets of hunters in a family. 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.520 There's a kid that kind of wanders off and comes 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.640 back into the group, but there's also the footprints of 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:43.800 a one legged person. They don't see where the individual 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.920 was using a walking stick, like it either wasn't um 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:55.200 it either wasn't captured and the like fossilized prints. But 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.480 it seems as though this person with one leg was 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:02.000 able to like cruise along hopping on one leg. Wow. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.520 We also recently reported on this big flock shooting, this 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:12.080 big elk hunting flock shooting occurrence in Montana. So there's 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.720 this there's a ranch and the ranches enrolled in a 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:17.320 in something called black management area. And the way black 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.320 management areas work as you take revenue from non resident 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.080 hunting licenses and use it to fund this program where 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:29.680 ranchers and landowners farmers get paid to allow get paid 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.920 a very modest fee. No one gets rich off this stuff. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:37.000 They get paid a modest fee. I think the cap 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.280 is fifteen thousand a year. Yeah, it's like they're basically 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.760 doing a favor to hunters. They're like, it's a gesture. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.480 It is a it is a gesture to the public 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:51.800 and part of the annoyance. This is one way you 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.720 can think about it. Part of the annoyance of this 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.000 is offset with a small amount of money. It's not 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:02.280 life changing money to enroll in Black Management UM, but 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.440 it's a black Manager place and an open day of 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.880 general firearm season, a bunch of guys get onto herd 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:11.960 of LP can start flock shooting. I think they kill 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:18.480 like fifty These elk citations were written. I'm not sure 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.080 what the citations are for. But on there we mused 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.600 about what does the landowner think about all this? Well, 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.680 a guide that that that does some work for this landowner, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.280 not on this place, but he guides a different property 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.640 wrote in and said he watched this spectacle from seven 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:41.160 miles away. It was too far to see any individual 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:43.600 elk fall, but he said it sounded like the beaches 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:49.960 of Normandy When these guys surrounded this herd out and 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.240 he said, if you're asking what the landowner thought of 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:57.360 the whole thing, the landowner is quote not happy with 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.360 this event, and he is considering dropping out of the 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:12.360 black management program, which is a real disappointment. Uh. Another 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.920 thing I read about recently, Uh, a hunter in Minnesota 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.120 just fatally shot. I mean, this happens every year. Fatally 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:27.160 shot another hunter mistook him for a deer. Apparently the 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.920 guy that got shot, uh, wasn't wearing his hunter's orange. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.560 This is up by the midge. Apparently the guy that 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.640 got shot wasn't wearing any hunter's orange. But you know, 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:40.040 and you might look at that and be like, oh, 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.040 that's the problem. I mean when someone when you hear 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:45.960 of someone mistaking someone for a deer, it's kind of like, 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:52.240 not only did you think you were looking at a deer, 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:59.360 you thought you were aiming at its rib cage. It's 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.960 just so hard to understand why this has to be 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:09.640 a story that you read every year multiple times, Like, 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:16.720 are are people so greedy and lusty that they want 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:23.119 a deer that bad? Yes, firing a movement like mistakey. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:25.200 I don't buy the mistaking it for a deer they're 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:28.920 just seeing movement. It's got to be you know, I've 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:35.960 been I've been surprised at sometimes people. I mean as 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:38.879 a growing up a bow hunter, like we were taught 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.159 not to shoot at walking deer. We were taught to 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.840 really calculate the shot. I mean, you had to be 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.080 a successful bow hunter, and then transitioning later in life 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:50.480 to rifle hunting and different things, especially in the big 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:55.560 woods when deer moving through big woods. I'm surprised at 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.159 the shots that I see and hear about people taking, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.960 which they've most got to be just you know, like 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.760 shooting at something that's moving. And I'm not saying they're 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:08.160 not identifying what they're seeing as a deer, but as 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.200 far as like are they aiming at the rib cage? 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.359 I don't know how they could be. You know, A 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.880 much more common hunting injury, I think it's the most 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:21.159 common hunting injury from firearms is when someone's swinging on 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:26.639 a bird with a shotgun and you know you're shooting 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.159 at a bird, but what you don't see in the 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:32.280 foreground or in the distance is your hunting partner or 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:35.560 another individual. And when I hear those stories, I'm often 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:40.040 like man like I could. I hesitate to say this. 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.760 You're like, I can just picture how that happens, Like 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.040 I could picture how it happens, but something like this, 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:52.560 I just can't. It's upsetting because it's so it's so 0:18:53.400 --> 0:19:00.480 preventable and so much more dangerous then, you know, like 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:05.960 what happened to Dick Cheney years ago. UM, kind of 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:12.280 interesting story come out of Wisconsin. There's like a article 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.000 that comes out by a local priest who's suffering hunter harassment. 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.440 So this he's called He's a norber teen priests, which 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:23.679 I don't know what the hell that means. He's forced 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.840 to file a police report because he keeps getting continued 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:31.960 public harassment for bow hunting on the St. Norbert Abbey 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:37.280 grounds and appear. So this dude joins this like order 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.960 in two thousand thirteen, and he lives on a hundred 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:45.320 sixty acre abbey property, so like where he's sort of stationed. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:47.520 Is a hunter do they use that term? I don't 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.560 think priests use that term. But he's stationed in this 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:55.399 place hundred sixty acres, and he realizes that there are 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:59.520 a lot of deer there, so he starts investigating and 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:04.919 checks into his uh city ordinances and regulations and checks 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:11.280 with the d NR. Uh, checks village stuff. Everybody says 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:17.400 there's no reason you cannot be bow hunting on abbey grounds. 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:21.320 So he starts a bow hunt and he quickly his 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:25.119 dude gets He stacks up four deer, but people in 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.440 the town are so pissed. He had to go and uh, 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:33.640 you know, pursue his hunter harassment law protections to keep 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:39.480 hunting on his abbey. I was feeling going down there 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.560 and doing communion and whatnot and hanging out with the 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.000 guy just to get I can see there's a lot 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.480 of listeners whose wheels are turning right now thinking about 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.600 ways they can get into some good hunting properties. Oh yeah, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.639 I'm going to become a priest. Yeah, that's that's a 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.960 line of work. I'm sorry pursuing man. Um Brody talked 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:58.800 about this, uh talk about this dude that got in 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.760 trouble for this twoth that got in trouble for setting 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:09.440 a mountain bike trap. Oh yeah, this happened in Montana. Um, 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.679 he's in big trouble. Yeah, like like like there's no 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.760 way he's going to be in that much trouble. I 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.720 don't know, man, dude, Okay, tell everybody about it. But 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.879 I bet you he'll wind up getting like a nothing, 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.600 a slap on the slap on the list. I don't know, 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:31.200 we'll see. Um certainly could have hurt some people. This 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:39.639 guy is not a fan of mountain bikers, which you know, 0:21:38.320 --> 0:21:44.920 Uh yeah, I I can understand. Like, I gotta tell 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:52.040 the story. First, he put a board that he had hammered, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:56.240 maybe a dozen nails through, quite a few nails, to 0:21:56.400 --> 0:22:00.400 lay across the trail so that when mountain bikers ran 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.760 over that board they popped their tires. This was in 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:08.639 an area where mountain biking is completely legal. I'm not 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.720 even sure how they tracked the guy down and confirmed 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:13.720 that that it was him, but he confessed to it. 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:17.960 Dude out walk and his kids stepped on the board, right, 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:19.800 But I'm saying, how did they get from point A 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:21.800 to point people? Like? How did they ever figure out 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:23.600 who the hell is doing it? Who it was? But 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.240 he once they they caught up to him, he confessed 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:29.159 to it, said he wasn't trying to hurt anyone, He 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.600 just didn't like all those mountain bikers out there. When 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:33.840 I was reading about one of the the things that struck 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.639 me was one of the investigators winds up interviewing a 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.359 guy who had allowed this individual access to the national 0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:46.000 forest through his private property, and when the investigator prevents, 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.439 presents this guy with a board with all the nails 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.240 through it. He tells the investigator, Yes, I saw the 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:57.080 suspect with such a board who laid out for me 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:01.600 his plan to use it to to reduce mountain bike traffic. 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:05.359 They describe this guy as a witness, But how is 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.960 he not sort of complicit? Right, Like if he could 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.400 have at least said that's not not a good idea. Yeah, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:14.080 Like if I went to your house, Brody, and I'm like, 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.960 see this machete, I'm gonna take this machete and I'm 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:18.880 gonna go or hit claw on the head with it, right, 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:21.000 and then I do that and then later you're like, 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.840 you know, he did have a machete and he told 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.360 me he was gonna hit Clay on the head with it. Like, 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.399 is that is that being a witness or is that 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:34.879 being like something different accomplice? Yeah. The reason the reason 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:38.960 I hesitated earlier is because there's a spot that I 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:46.120 hunt back in Colorado where, um, you know, I've seen 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:51.399 some illegal mountain bike use, some illegal motorcycle use, and uh, 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:55.040 you know it bugs me, but that's you know, in 0:23:55.080 --> 0:23:57.320 a spot they're not supposed to be. So do you 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:02.119 normally just like string piano wire across those No. No, 0:24:02.359 --> 0:24:06.359 But um, I'm not gonna lie if I hadn't said I. 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:10.159 I fantasized about the idea of doing the same exact 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:12.200 thing this guy did. But of course I never falled 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.000 through with it, because you can hurt someone, you know 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.880 you can. But I'll tell you on those trails, illegal 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:19.800 trails like that, because I know, I mean, we might 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:22.880 be talking about the same spot, but I would sort 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:27.879 of advertently maybe kick up big rock onto that trail, 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.240 roll a log onto that trail. I mean, no one's 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.600 supposed to be mountain bike in it, so like you know, 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.080 they come across a log, they should be prepared for that. 0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:40.040 I got. I got a cousin he caught a thirty 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.440 I remember, he caught a sixty three pound beaver one time. 0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:48.400 But the same cousin he tells me this, told me this, 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.080 This is a long time ago. According to this cousin 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:56.800 of mine, he one time was in an emergency room 0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:00.360 like where the um ambulances pull up and you got 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:02.800 like the sliding doors. I don't know what the hell 0:25:02.840 --> 0:25:07.600 he's doing there, but he's there. He says that out 0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:13.880 of this ambulance comes a gurney and on the gurney 0:25:14.040 --> 0:25:19.560 is a headless corpse. Under its arm is a helmet 0:25:22.440 --> 0:25:27.919 with the head still in it. This struck his curiosity, 0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.480 and he says that what happened was a guy was 0:25:30.560 --> 0:25:35.879 so pissed about snow machiners snowmobilers that he did, like 0:25:35.960 --> 0:25:40.440 Yanni said, and strung a wire. I love that. True 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.280 or not, we still we floated it. We used to 0:25:43.280 --> 0:25:45.920 flow the river where the landowner, one of the landowners, 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:47.919 you got to float through his property. He strung some 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:52.720 wires keep kayakers and rafters from rolling through. So we 0:25:52.800 --> 0:25:57.760 just carried wire cutters with us. Okay, Clay, tell us 0:25:57.800 --> 0:26:02.280 about the um tell us about what's going on with 0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:07.800 this Washington bear hunting deal. Now, yeah, so there's uh. 0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.000 I talked to a lady today that's what the Inland 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:16.119 Northwest Wildlife Council named Marie new Miller. Really nice lady, 0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:21.119 and she talked about how she was at a a 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:25.480 spring the commission meeting and because the spring seasons were 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.399 the first seasons of one that they came up and 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:33.080 were talked about, and basically she was the only hunter 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:38.760 there that gave any positive input about the spring seasons 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:47.280 in Washington, and she said that there were basically there 0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:50.560 was a room full of people that were upset about 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.679 the that had negative things to say about a spring season. 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:57.800 They had all these different reasons, but there was a 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:00.840 couple of interesting things that she spoke about. So this 0:27:00.920 --> 0:27:04.639 was a zoom meeting, and she said that there's a 0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:07.960 lot of out of state special interest groups that are 0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:12.080 influencing wildlife law in the state of Washington and in 0:27:12.160 --> 0:27:15.399 other places, which was kind of a new, a new 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:19.320 idea that it's kind of an influence of COVID because 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:23.200 there's a Mountain lion group in California, an anti predator 0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:27.679 hunting group in California that was present in this meeting. 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:32.159 Um there, I made a list here of five takeaways 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:37.800 from what she said, Steve, But basically, COVID nineteen and 0:27:37.840 --> 0:27:41.520 these some of these ZOOM meetings are given access to 0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:44.439 to these groups to regulation meetings from AFAR that they 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.880 never had. The second thing that would never have showed up, 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:50.119 that wouldn't have been like to show up for local meeting. 0:27:50.400 --> 0:27:52.840 That's right, they would have never showed up. The second 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:56.240 of all is that in the state of Washington, and 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.560 I would assume this is the same in other states. 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:04.719 They that any email that comes into the commission is 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:09.200 presented and somehow acknowledged by the commission. And so these 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:13.320 anti hunting groups are pretty well raped, well put together, 0:28:13.440 --> 0:28:17.000 and they're sending these form emails. So basically, one of 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:19.200 the people got up and said, hey, we had five 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:23.240 hundred and forty emails come in against the spring hunt 0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.800 and it was a form email chain sent out by 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.399 one of these anti hunting groups. But you know what 0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:32.679 that does inside of a crowd, when you begin to 0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:35.639 hear something negative, it's it's like empowered some of the 0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:38.600 people that were actually in the zoom meeting to begin 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:43.640 to speak out against it. And um, basically she was like, 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.920 where are the hunters at? Where where the where's the 0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:52.400 voice of the hunters? Yeah, and her her point to 0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:54.880 me was that the commissions here the squeaky wheel, but 0:28:54.920 --> 0:29:00.000 not the positive stories of hunters and hunting and uh, 0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:06.080 you know, we've we have I think the solution to 0:29:06.120 --> 0:29:09.800 the problem, and there's nothing specific that's happening in Washington, 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:13.200 Like there's not a regulation that's being proposed that takes 0:29:13.200 --> 0:29:15.959 away their spring hunt, but it just came up and 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.920 she sent an email to meat Eater and Uh, basically, 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:23.680 as hunters, we need to build a culture that's more 0:29:23.720 --> 0:29:27.880 proactive talking with our game commissions, talking about the positive 0:29:27.960 --> 0:29:32.640 things that that we see inside of our hunting seasons. 0:29:32.680 --> 0:29:39.560 Because there's definitely squeaky squeaky wheels. Um, you know, the 0:29:39.560 --> 0:29:46.400 there's a the cultural shifts that we're experiencing today inside 0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:53.240 of his era of technology. Basically, rapid culture shifts can 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.640 have significant consequences and hunting regulations and are moving much 0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:59.880 faster than they have in past decades because of technology, 0:30:00.040 --> 0:30:01.880 if I can say it that way, Like so, like 0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:05.120 you know, this idea of some murmur about a spring 0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:09.120 bear hunt not being a good thing, Like maybe in 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:11.920 past times that would have taken twenty five years to 0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:15.400 infiltrate a deep part of the culture to change regulation. 0:30:16.320 --> 0:30:20.880 Well anymore, it's that is moving much faster, and so 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:23.400 you know, I just think we just have to be 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:28.760 more proactive with the tech communication game as hunters and 0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:32.640 and and speak up for stuff. But this points to 0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:37.120 a thing that I argue about frequently with my very 0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:42.240 dear friend Carl Malcolm, and Carl's of the opinion that 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:47.160 you know, um, we need more voices, right, more voices 0:30:47.160 --> 0:30:50.920 in the room, more seats at the table, and that 0:30:51.160 --> 0:30:56.400 game management in this country has so long been uh 0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:02.360 so heavily influenced by hunters and anglers, and he's points 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:04.480 to the fact that we need to be realistic about 0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:08.160 the fact that more people have input and that we're 0:31:08.160 --> 0:31:14.400 not always going to enjoy having oversized input on like 0:31:14.520 --> 0:31:20.640 game commission rules and things. Uh. I don't know if 0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:23.280 he's being pragmatic or if he's being hopeful when he 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:26.440 talks about the fact that more people are going to 0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:30.080 be coming into the conversation, but I don't necessarily look 0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:35.720 at that as an entirely good thing. UM. And as 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:40.120 we deal with like management and funding structures, where right 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.160 now fishing game agencies are funded largely by hunters and 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:47.920 anglers and shooters meaning people to buy hunting and fishing 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:51.480 licenses and all kinds of other things that are have 0:31:51.600 --> 0:31:54.680 excise taxes on them for that purpose, like marine gas 0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:58.440 and sporting goods and all kinds of things. UM. Funding 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:01.800 from that and funny like funny from buying licenses and 0:32:01.840 --> 0:32:06.600 buying sporting goods. Right, So the users are paying. As 0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:10.000 we look at these other funding structures and we talk about, 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:13.400 you know, having a backpack tax or a trail tax 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:17.640 or some way for other outdoor users to kick in money. 0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:21.880 Then when they kick in money, they're gonna probably want 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:24.600 to have their opinions be heard. And I don't think 0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:28.000 their opinions their eyes gonna go along with ours. Yeah, 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:29.800 but the truck to you can do that is just 0:32:29.880 --> 0:32:33.600 target those dollars to what they're used for. So there's 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.360 an exercise tax on mountain bikes that's for fixing up 0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:40.480 mountain bike trails someplace. That's great. That shouldn't be something 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:42.600 that the hunters dollars should be paying for, which has 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:46.120 been partly done in the past. You just segregate the accounts. 0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:49.240 You know, in terms of fish and wildlife management, hunters 0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:52.360 ought to have a learn to say we do. I 0:32:52.360 --> 0:32:55.040 think it goes back to and you guys help me 0:32:55.440 --> 0:32:58.719 understand this better. Even it goes back to how these 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:03.000 state ame agencies are run. Like her, one of the 0:33:03.000 --> 0:33:04.920 things we talked about today. She told me that four 0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:08.200 percent of people in Washington State or hunters, So they're 0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:14.920 starting out as a minority. So the anti hunting argument 0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.480 is that, hey, most of the people in the state 0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:22.760 aren't for this, specifically talking about the spring bear hunt. 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:24.920 So this is a democratic society, so why don't we 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.560 stop the spring bear hunt? And the game agency in 0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:32.440 Washington came back with a great response as I understood it, 0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:38.480 which was, we don't manage our game based upon democratic 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:41.920 feel I mean, and I know here in Arkansas our 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:46.280 commission is totally run by these commissioners. I mean, it's 0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:49.160 it's not a referendum state, meaning you can't just get 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:52.520 a bunch of people together sign a petition to get 0:33:52.640 --> 0:33:56.640 something made into law. Um, So that brings up the question, 0:33:56.720 --> 0:34:00.520 I mean, is our our game management practice is up 0:34:00.560 --> 0:34:03.280 for the democratic process. Yeah, but I mean, like so 0:34:03.360 --> 0:34:05.960 much stuff in society is not or so much stuff. 0:34:06.400 --> 0:34:09.560 We have a representative democracy, right, like you have an 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:13.720 opportunity now and then for your congressmanutes every two years, 0:34:13.719 --> 0:34:16.600 your senators every six years, your presidents every four years, whatever, 0:34:16.640 --> 0:34:18.680 you have an opportunity now and then the way in 0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:22.080 and generally how things are going. But when people point 0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:24.560 out like it's a democratic society. It's like, Okay, if 0:34:24.600 --> 0:34:27.960 we're gonna go invade Iraq, right, do we then have 0:34:28.000 --> 0:34:29.880 a quick vote to see if we're gonna do it 0:34:29.960 --> 0:34:32.319 or not? If we're gonna have a new tax buill, 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:33.880 do we have a quick vote to see if we're 0:34:33.880 --> 0:34:36.880 gonna do it or not? Or like we're gonna lower, um, 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:39.799 the maximum fine for marijuana possession, do we put that? 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:43.560 Of course not like we'd like get people to do 0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:47.200 things for us, and we don't subject everything to a 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:52.360 temperature check, a public temperature check every time we turn around. Um. 0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:54.879 And so when people like, when people point out that argument, 0:34:54.880 --> 0:34:57.080 I'm like, yeah, I see what you're saying, But we 0:34:57.120 --> 0:35:01.000 don't do anything like that. Yeah. One of the things 0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:02.640 we're gonna talk to One of the things I want 0:35:02.640 --> 0:35:05.440 to talk to with about is, uh, what are do 0:35:05.480 --> 0:35:10.840 you have opinions about what happened with Colorado? The um 0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:13.239 where in this case where we did go to a 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:15.640 public opinion and have like a public opinion a poll 0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:22.520 on a path toward a wolf. Yeah, No, I don't 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:24.480 you know. Listen, I think that you know the worst 0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.320 thing you can do is to sort of have you 0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.759 well life management by ballot box I mean, this is 0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:32.480 professionals how to be dealing with this stuff. And you 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.880 that's why you have professionally run you know, game fishing, 0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:38.920 game agencies. And no, I think if we've failed, if 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:40.880 we go to this you know model of you know, 0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:43.640 trying to get the citizens way in on it was 0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:48.280 just like that. Colorado has a history of that too. Yeah, 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:50.600 that involves the spring bear hunt, you know, and I 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:54.040 think in the mid nineties the spring bear hunt in 0:35:54.040 --> 0:36:00.319 Colorado was outlawed by ballot box initiative. You can even 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:02.200 argue that, you know, Congress is not the right place 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:04.160 to be dealing with things like a wolf de listing, 0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:06.040 which we ended up having to do around you know, 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:09.600 the gradielist an ecosystems, certainly because you know, the courts 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:12.640 kept blocking it even though biologically it was justified to 0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:16.040 delist wolves. So Congress had to weigh in and you know, 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:17.719 deal with it there. But again that's not the best 0:36:17.760 --> 0:36:22.960 place either. Are you guys familiar with the predator hunting 0:36:23.160 --> 0:36:29.440 conspiracy theory that the anti hunting community wants to shut 0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:36.160 down predator hunting so that predators would overtake the landscape 0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:41.759 and take down ungulate numbers to such a level that 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:46.719 hunting would no longer be necessary because have you heard that? Yeah, no, 0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:48.480 I hear that. Do you know the do you There's 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:50.200 one we'd like to talk about a lot which is 0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:57.480 even more insidious. It was that the Clintons. I know 0:36:57.600 --> 0:37:00.360 you're gonna say that they liked what they wanted wolves 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:05.000 to come. They wanted the wolves reintroduction because the wolves 0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:07.960 would kill all the game. No one would hunt anymore, 0:37:08.440 --> 0:37:10.200 and if they couldn't hunt, they wouldn't have any reason 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.719 to buy a gun. And that's how you disarm America. 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:16.319 It's a long it's a long play. So I feel 0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:24.360 like I I don't know that that I know that theory. 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:26.080 And there's a guy, there's a guy that's a very 0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:31.600 big proponent of he's right here in our town. He's 0:37:31.640 --> 0:37:35.480 done a lot around wolf reintroductions, and he gives a 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:39.080 lot of talks about UH wolf reintroductions. Really likes him 0:37:39.080 --> 0:37:43.600 a lot, and he's very antagonistic toward hunters. And I've 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.319 mentioned this a couple of times where he referred to 0:37:46.480 --> 0:37:52.480 hunters as the recreational big game killing industry UH and 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:56.279 views them as being like an adversary for it. But 0:37:56.360 --> 0:37:59.440 I don't think that he views wolf reintroduction as a 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:03.200 way to ticket to hunters. M I think it's more 0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:07.400 like he veals that we have an obligation to like 0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:11.840 restore in a completely intact ecosystem. Be my guess. Maybe 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:15.760 at night he's like, you know, like this insidious plot. 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.600 But I I don't know. I mean, I couldnot like 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:21.879 if anybody could put it together and be the Clinton's though, Yeah, 0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:23.960 I mean, you know, hey, did you know my dad 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:26.640 went to high school with Bill Clinton? Because you're from Arkansas? 0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:30.520 Did they party a lot? No? He was a few 0:38:30.560 --> 0:38:34.160 years older than my dad, but well I'm sure Clinton did. Yeah. 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:35.920 I don't know if you're old man partied with him? 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:39.080 Not not Gary Newcomb, No, sir, so you're your old man. 0:38:39.200 --> 0:38:41.920 Can't put your Gary Newcomb? Can't put the rest this 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:46.319 inhale or not inhale thing? Well he probably could, but 0:38:46.360 --> 0:39:00.960 not because he was there, got it. We we're a 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:04.640 little bit now, we're not too terribly early. Every year 0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:07.600 most every year for the last few years, we've done 0:39:07.600 --> 0:39:12.480 with wit from Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership where a full disclosure, 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:16.560 I am a proud board member. Uh. When Fosburgh comes 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:21.680 in and does a recap. So the year is not 0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:24.480 quite done. I mean, you know, it's it's it's winding down. 0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:28.880 We're getting there. It's winding down. Last year when we 0:39:28.920 --> 0:39:35.080 did this, you had, uh you had about nineteen a 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:39.960 general thumbs up. We went through the details, but you 0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:45.960 had a thumbs up from conservation perspective. Where where does 0:39:46.000 --> 0:39:49.239 the thumb sit. Now, let's say it's a middle of 0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:52.200 the road kind of sideways right now. There are some 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:58.359 huge accomplishments. They're also doing some real disappointments. Really uh so, yeah, 0:39:58.360 --> 0:39:59.920 So I think it's you know Nick bag as he 0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:02.319 usually is, listen, and I think that overall, I think 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:04.320 we're happy with where we got this year. We have 0:40:04.400 --> 0:40:08.320 some challenging circumstances, but once again, in least in Congress, 0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.440 conservation proved one of those things that you could actually 0:40:11.480 --> 0:40:16.719 get done in a very hyperpartisan year presidential election, you know, 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:20.279 hot congressional elections, everything else. That's one of the you 0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:23.440 talking about that and explaining how that happens, that conservation 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:26.240 is a thing that can move forward when when nothing 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:31.000 else can move forward. I was kind of thinking about 0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:34.200 that a little bit recently and looking at um that 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:38.920 we'd have uh, you know, Republican led Senate, the Democrat 0:40:39.000 --> 0:40:41.840 the White House. They're not gonna get anything done. Maybe 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:46.000 they'll decide to focus on some some conservation work to 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:49.080 get those easy wins that you were talking about that 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:52.360 they often get thirsty for. Yeah, I think so. I 0:40:52.360 --> 0:40:54.160 mean they have to everyone has to show they can 0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:57.719 legislate and get stuff done. And if you look back 0:40:57.719 --> 0:40:59.600 at this year, I mean things like the Great American 0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:02.880 Outdoor Act, which was permanent and full funding for the 0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:06.279 Land Water Conservation Fund. It was a ten billion dollar 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:09.799 almost trust fund to deal with maintenance backlog in public lands. 0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:12.760 That came together because you know, a lot of different interests. 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:14.319 You know, I thought it was a good idea at 0:41:14.320 --> 0:41:17.520 the time. Some of those were conservationist just interests, some 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.040 more political. There was an idea that you know, they 0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:22.239 wanted to help, you know, Corey Gardner in Colorado and 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:25.880 Steve Danes, you re election efforts. So you know Trump 0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:29.160 proposed doing this. This is when the Democrats have been 0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:31.319 pushing for years, and they weren't dumb enough to say, oh, 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:34.200 because you're proposing, I'm gonna vote against it. It's like, hell, yeah, 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:37.200 bring it on, and so that allowed us to get 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:40.080 it done. Can you can you explain why, like the 0:41:40.120 --> 0:41:44.879 Elder talk people through the l w CF, and why 0:41:45.000 --> 0:41:46.879 we had to have a new thing called the Great 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:51.440 American Outdoors Act to sort of like provide backing for 0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:54.160 a thing we already had, which is the LWCF. Like, 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:58.360 why does it require a new It wasn't. It's just basically, 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:02.200 you know, Congress passes things in bulk these days. It 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:05.600 doesn't do individual bills very often. So the Great American 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:09.800 Outdoors Act had two independent bills underneath it. One was 0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:12.680 Land and Water Conservation Fund. The other was a maintenance backlog. 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:16.240 Just a little background on Land of Work Conservation Fund. 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:20.120 It was created in nineteen by Congress when they opened 0:42:20.160 --> 0:42:22.520 up the Outer Continental Shelf that oil and gas development. 0:42:22.640 --> 0:42:25.239 The idea was that oil and gas industry pay into 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:30.160 a fund UH to do national resource conservation in perpetuity 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:33.799 million dollars a year. The problem was that in the 0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:37.640 fifty five years that has been around, only once did 0:42:37.680 --> 0:42:41.960 Congress actually fully funded. So you know, two thousand nineteen 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:45.600 and a big ominibus bill that we passed, we permanently 0:42:45.680 --> 0:42:47.960 reauthorized this. You don't have to go back to Congress 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.960 every year every five years to get it reauthorized. In 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.279 the Great American Outdoors Act, we took that funding and 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:56.680 moved it off budget because what did Congress has been 0:42:56.680 --> 0:42:59.200 doing is saw this juicy pot of funding sitting out 0:42:59.239 --> 0:43:03.360 there that had not been protected in nine from being rated. 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.760 So Congress rated it for all sorts of purposes unrelated 0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:13.400 to conservation. What were they rating it for deficit reduction schools? 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:15.120 You know? Who knows? I mean, it just it was 0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:20.000 used for other purposes. So they still collected the money 0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:23.359 from the oil, yes company, oil and gas industry paid 0:43:23.360 --> 0:43:25.640 into it every year nine million dollars, and in their 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:28.399 mind they're paying into it because of this thing, this fund. 0:43:29.280 --> 0:43:31.160 But then the money goes and sits in another pile 0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:33.680 and someone grabs the money off that pile. Oh yeah no. 0:43:33.760 --> 0:43:35.480 So Congress looks at and says, what we can give 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:37.800 it the nine hundred million dollars we're supposed to, or 0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:39.840 we could give it half of that and use the 0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:43.640 other half for these pet projects we might have. So finally, 0:43:43.719 --> 0:43:45.480 what we've been trying to do is get that off 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:49.480 budget so it automatically goes out things like Pittman Robertson 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:52.680 Dingle Johnson. You know those funds. Congress is not allowed 0:43:52.719 --> 0:43:56.040 to tamper with the sportsman's exercise taxes. Let's go to 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:58.320 the federal government and then go back out to the states. 0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.760 This would be similar in that the nine million dollars 0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:05.320 in full guess for goes to projects like it was intended, 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:11.960 land acquisition, permanent Easeman's city parks, trails, those types of activities. 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:13.800 You know, that was a huge win. You know, I 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:15.759 think people might be interested in about when we're talking 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.640 about money going into piles and someone robbing that money 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.880 is uh, you know, when you buy like earlier, I 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:26.080 mean we talked about this, when you buy your fishing license. Okay, 0:44:26.560 --> 0:44:28.919 the money from your fishing license goes to support your 0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:32.560 state game agency, which does everything from like regulation, you know, 0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:37.239 enforcement of hunting and fishing laws, disease research, access enhancement, 0:44:38.920 --> 0:44:41.000 boat launches, like on down the line. It goes to 0:44:41.040 --> 0:44:45.400 all this stuff. If a state, states are blocked. You 0:44:45.400 --> 0:44:47.000 can tell me if this is a universal or not. 0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:52.759 States are blocked from raiding that money because if they 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:55.040 raid that money and don't put it for what it's 0:44:55.040 --> 0:44:59.320 supposed to go to, they're not eligible for the federal 0:44:59.400 --> 0:45:03.160 funds that come from the excise taxes. Correct. Ye, so 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:05.640 you get like you get like slapped on the hand. 0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:11.120 Um if you try to steal the hunting and fishing money. Correct. 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:14.880 And now that it was genius when they set that 0:45:14.960 --> 0:45:17.560 up because people would have taken that money. Oh sure. 0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:21.520 And so now you know you have a Congress can't 0:45:21.600 --> 0:45:23.440 rate it and the states can't rate it. You know 0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:25.879 the matching funds the states use basically which is their 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.720 state license fees. So no, it's a it's a perfect situation. 0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:33.200 It's worked and that's why it's funded conservation for since 0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:36.560 the nineteen thirties. Is there like when all this LWCF 0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:40.960 money comes in, um, who who is the who is 0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:47.000 the who's the collection of people that decides where it goes? 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:50.520 So half of it goes basically half of it goes 0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:52.640 back after the states, and the states can use it 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:57.160 for anything from real conservation, migration corrid or is that 0:45:57.200 --> 0:45:59.480 type of activity, or they can use it for a 0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:04.960 city baseball diamond, basketball courts, you know, urban recreation. They 0:46:04.960 --> 0:46:08.160 have flexibility and how that gets used. The other half 0:46:08.320 --> 0:46:12.240 is basically goes to the agency's Department of the Interior 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:16.400 Department of Agriculture that then goes out for very specific projects. 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:18.839 And what we're trying to do is, you know, make 0:46:18.880 --> 0:46:21.200 sure that they really think about projects a little bit differently. 0:46:21.239 --> 0:46:24.040 They have in the past. LWCF has been used to 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:27.400 fund like the big Plum Creek acquisitions on the Blackfoot 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:31.400 and you know, things like that, which are multimillion dollar, 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:34.560 really complex deals. But it could also be used for 0:46:34.640 --> 0:46:37.640 things like, you know, funding you buy one section someplace 0:46:37.680 --> 0:46:41.120 in Montana to open up a landlocked parcel. You know, 0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:43.200 as you guys know, we've been working with ONYX on 0:46:43.239 --> 0:46:46.880 those reports on landlocked and you've got sixteen and a 0:46:46.920 --> 0:46:49.319 half million acres around the country that are owned by 0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:52.239 the public but the public can't access. So you start 0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:55.160 thinking about a little bit differently because three of the 0:46:55.239 --> 0:46:58.840 nine million, seven million dollars annually is your remarked for 0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:03.239 access projects. So start thinking about that little section or 0:47:03.280 --> 0:47:06.080 half sections someplace that opens up a whole bunch of 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:09.160 different land and the on X project it really helps 0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:12.799 identify where those areas are. Yeah, because that's like a 0:47:13.120 --> 0:47:16.759 that's like a force multiplier on your money when you 0:47:16.840 --> 0:47:19.640 buy like a small chunk and open up a huge chunk. Yeah, 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:21.319 and you mentioned even like you know, the you know, 0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:23.920 block management in Montana, if you buy a section that 0:47:23.960 --> 0:47:27.520 opens up more block management potentially, or target some of 0:47:27.520 --> 0:47:30.000 the block management, which is also funded by the farm bill, 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.560 you know, to you know again access that national forest 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:37.280 behind you what you said that some of this money 0:47:37.320 --> 0:47:39.880 could be used, And it surprised me when you said 0:47:39.960 --> 0:47:43.520 like urban projects like baseball diamonds and such. I knew 0:47:43.560 --> 0:47:45.800 that a lot some of that money I had seen 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:48.000 wording inside of that where it said it could go 0:47:48.040 --> 0:47:52.239 for rifle ranges and firearms related stuff. I mean, how 0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:56.600 how can how are we not are we guarding against 0:47:56.640 --> 0:48:01.200 like all of that money going to by small diamonds. Well, 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.080 I mean, first of all, you're it's largely a state 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:06.040 decision where they want to spend it. So engage in 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.760 the process. You work with your game and fish agency, 0:48:09.320 --> 0:48:12.000 you know, your record aptor parks or agency, whatever is 0:48:12.000 --> 0:48:14.800 in the state, and help influence that decision. The idea 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:16.640 was that it makes sense to send some of this 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:19.600 money local and locals decide how they want to spend it, 0:48:20.320 --> 0:48:21.960 and we want to make sure that they can think 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:26.680 about you know, yeah, that different ideas like migration quarridors. 0:48:26.719 --> 0:48:28.359 You see a lot of those estates in the West 0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:31.960 are now developing formal migration policies try to identify and 0:48:32.000 --> 0:48:35.439 protect big game migration corridors use some of the state 0:48:35.520 --> 0:48:38.600 side money to help, you know, further that cause, as 0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:41.160 well as doing things like baseball diamonds or if you 0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:45.719 do a shooting range or you know, whatever it might be. Uh, well, 0:48:45.840 --> 0:48:49.040 let's go on to you got I got a quick 0:48:49.080 --> 0:48:53.240 follow up if it's all right with I want to know. Thanks, Steve, 0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:56.560 appreciate it. Um when when you're like, what does it 0:48:56.600 --> 0:48:58.560 look like? If you can give me like an abbreviated 0:48:58.640 --> 0:49:01.440 version of when like you're in there in the trenches 0:49:01.600 --> 0:49:04.319 in d C trying to help push something like the 0:49:04.360 --> 0:49:07.520 Great American Outdoors Act through what does that look like 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:10.279 on a day to day basis? And then too like 0:49:10.600 --> 0:49:14.480 did you are there allies that like right alongside t 0:49:14.680 --> 0:49:17.759 RCP that are maybe not in our you know, the 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.880 hunting and fishing bubble that are also in there? And 0:49:20.920 --> 0:49:23.600 also a great question answer to the second part first, 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:28.600 so yeah, we had great allies in the outdoor recreation community, 0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:33.400 in the historic preservation community. Yeah, it's a big you know, 0:49:33.480 --> 0:49:36.600 there were literally hundreds and hundreds of different groups that 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:38.960 were engaged in this. We're all fighting side by side 0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:40.799 for it in terms of what it looks like in 0:49:40.800 --> 0:49:44.040 the trenches. I mean, what we do is really two things. One, 0:49:44.120 --> 0:49:46.919 we provide good information. You know, we let a member 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:50.080 of Congress know, here are the projects that have benefited 0:49:50.080 --> 0:49:52.719 and hunters and anglers in your state through all the BCF. 0:49:53.000 --> 0:49:54.840 Here are the other types of projects that are sitting 0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:57.120 out there that could get funded if we had full funding. 0:49:57.680 --> 0:49:59.800 And then what we also do is apply some pressure. 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:02.239 And you know, honestly, they don't want to see me 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:03.879 walking in the door. They want to hear from their 0:50:03.920 --> 0:50:06.279 local rod and Gun club in that state, you know, 0:50:06.360 --> 0:50:10.879 the local chapter of Pheasants Forever Turkey Federation engage. I mean, 0:50:10.920 --> 0:50:13.320 local voices matter a lot more than you know, guys 0:50:13.400 --> 0:50:15.560 like me that live in here in d C. And 0:50:15.600 --> 0:50:18.200 they're paid to do this stuff. So what we try 0:50:18.239 --> 0:50:19.799 to do is, you know, and that's why we have 0:50:19.880 --> 0:50:21.720 guys and you know a lot of the western states 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:26.640 around the country as organizers mobilizing local businesses, local citizens, 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:29.520 local rod and gun clubs to engage on these issues 0:50:29.560 --> 0:50:33.200 to make their voices heard. So it's one part good information, 0:50:33.360 --> 0:50:37.040 another part yeah, just you know, shoe leather and getting 0:50:37.040 --> 0:50:41.000 the people out there that can help influences. Thank you. 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:45.520 Uh you put down Pebble Mine in the wind category 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:49.279 and yeah, and I recognize that. And to bring people 0:50:49.320 --> 0:50:52.799 that have been following this show. Um, we had a 0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:55.960 big pebble episode recently. I should say recently, but I 0:50:55.960 --> 0:50:59.080 guess this fall we had a big Pebble Mind episode. 0:50:59.120 --> 0:51:04.000 And it was funny because while we were recording that, 0:51:04.040 --> 0:51:07.439 we had a gentleman on Tim Bristol Um who just coincidentally, 0:51:07.719 --> 0:51:10.120 his last name is Bristol and Pebble Mind is you know, 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:12.960 in the headwaters of Bristol Bay. And he came on 0:51:13.040 --> 0:51:15.640 and sort of laid out the whole history of where 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:20.160 this idea came from, why it's a bad idea, why 0:51:20.200 --> 0:51:23.879 it won't go away, and and literally while we were 0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:26.160 speaking with him, he was very eager to get home 0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:29.480 after the interview. While we were speaking with him, a 0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:38.360 story was breaking about some some activists who had masqueraded 0:51:38.719 --> 0:51:48.640 as foreign investors in Pebble Mind, and the CEO of 0:51:48.880 --> 0:51:52.080 Pebble Mind, what what was his name? With Tom Collier, 0:51:52.320 --> 0:51:57.319 Tom Collier. These people masquerade as investors, and they do 0:51:57.400 --> 0:52:01.520 in a call with Tom Collier from Pebble Line, and 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:05.239 Tom Collier um really opens up to them in a 0:52:05.280 --> 0:52:08.720 way that wound up being deeply humiliating to him, where 0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:15.480 he contradicted a lot of Pebble Mind's own messaging. Um 0:52:15.640 --> 0:52:18.800 they had all along in the permitting process been looking for, 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:21.840 you know, I don't know, like a ten or twenty 0:52:21.920 --> 0:52:28.840 year roadmap. He shares with these these supposed investors that 0:52:29.480 --> 0:52:34.239 this is like a twenty year play that he's got 0:52:34.320 --> 0:52:36.799 plans where the state is going to pay for a 0:52:36.800 --> 0:52:39.480 lot more things in the state had any intention of 0:52:39.520 --> 0:52:43.440 paying paying for. And then he really liked drives a 0:52:43.520 --> 0:52:49.560 nail on his own coffin by speaking rather disparagingly of 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:52.719 a number of politicians that he needs to have a 0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:56.600 lot of cooperation with, to the point where, uh, some 0:52:56.719 --> 0:53:01.040 politicians who haven't been entirely supportive or to entirely dismissive, 0:53:01.080 --> 0:53:04.120 but it wanted the process to run, and they've been 0:53:04.200 --> 0:53:07.120 pretty careful to say that, like, this is a process 0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:09.120 we're gonna allow to play out, and they don't want 0:53:09.120 --> 0:53:12.480 to weigh into heavily. But anyways, he goes and shares it. Basically, 0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:15.120 these people are in his back pocket, and when the 0:53:15.160 --> 0:53:18.160 rubber meets the world, they'll do what he says. And 0:53:18.200 --> 0:53:21.040 there's nothing that's going to be quicker at getting those 0:53:21.080 --> 0:53:24.359 politicians to not do what you say than to say that, 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:31.719 Oh yeah, listen, that was you know, I'm not sure 0:53:31.800 --> 0:53:34.080 that you know, the interview, the tapes, you know, had 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:37.560 that big bearing on the corps final decision to deny 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:40.400 the permit for the Mind. But it's sure as hell 0:53:40.400 --> 0:53:43.480 have for persuade Leasa Murkowsky and Dan Sullivan to come 0:53:43.480 --> 0:53:46.400 out very vocally against that mine, oh just as it 0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:50.600 was so insulting to them, and uh, you know it was. 0:53:50.640 --> 0:53:52.879 And we've been trying to get them both to come 0:53:52.880 --> 0:53:55.319 out hard against the Mind, and again, like you say, 0:53:55.400 --> 0:53:57.480 they've just sort of taking a very neutral stance of 0:53:57.920 --> 0:54:00.239 let's wait and see, let's see what they say, not 0:54:00.360 --> 0:54:03.399 wanting to you know, take anybody off. But started saying 0:54:03.400 --> 0:54:06.960 that stuff, holy map, they went off like Roman candidles. Yeah, 0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:11.200 it was, you know, it was just one of those uh, 0:54:11.400 --> 0:54:13.879 you know, if you were gonna and I'm sure someone 0:54:13.960 --> 0:54:17.400 will someday make a documentary about this entire process that 0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:20.400 would be sort of like, you know, a huge moment 0:54:21.400 --> 0:54:24.399 in the film is this call. But but that set 0:54:24.440 --> 0:54:27.600 off I don't know if it's set off or not. 0:54:27.719 --> 0:54:33.280 It sure seemed to set off a um cascade of events, 0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:36.279 like all of a sudden, there's people wanting to do investigations. 0:54:36.920 --> 0:54:42.240 Tom Collier is dismissed from his position. Uh, the Army 0:54:42.239 --> 0:54:47.040 Corps of Engineers comes in and and rejects the proposal. 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:50.600 But this the fighting about this mine is that just 0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:53.239 it never goes away. Like when we had this this episode, 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:56.640 I was pointing out to someone that I went to 0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:59.360 my first pebble mind event, I thought it was the 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:04.600 year before my kid was born. He's ten years old. 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:11.360 And um Bristol had pointed out that to really close 0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:14.920 this thing up, there needs to be some land designations 0:55:15.360 --> 0:55:17.479 in that area that would make it that we don't 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:21.000 just need to constantly revisit this horrible idea. I don't 0:55:21.000 --> 0:55:22.600 want to spend too much time, so we've covered so 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:25.160 heavy a basis like this, like when you draw a 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:32.560 gold bearing or out of the ground, you use an acid. Yeah, 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:35.399 you use cyanide to dissolve the gold out right. This 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:37.640 isn't like digging up for gold nuggets. This is like 0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:42.200 or that contains gold. You crush that stuff up, put 0:55:42.280 --> 0:55:45.560 cyanide on it, and that dissolves the gold. Then you're 0:55:45.560 --> 0:55:47.799 able to collect the dissolved gold. The problem is you 0:55:47.840 --> 0:55:53.280 have all this you have all this waste from the cyanide, 0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:54.799 and you have like a bunch of heavy metals that 0:55:54.840 --> 0:55:57.600 are in water, and that stuff don't go away. So 0:55:57.640 --> 0:55:59.920 you gotta make a big lake and you fill this 0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:03.799 lake up with all this ship right, um, And they 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:06.480 just in their plan they're like, oh, yeah, and the 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:08.240 lake will always be there, but we'll build a sweet 0:56:08.320 --> 0:56:10.520 dam to hold it in. And people like, what do 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:15.000 you mean always? I mean like twenty years, fifty years. No, 0:56:15.120 --> 0:56:20.560 it's like for an eternity, forever, forever. The lake of 0:56:20.680 --> 0:56:24.080 toxic sludge sits there behind the earth and dam, and 0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:27.040 people point out, well, how can the dam be forever? 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:34.239 And they're like, to be a sweet damn, real nice damn. Yeah, 0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:39.480 sismically seismically active area. Yeah. And so it just is 0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:42.080 very unsettling to people who have to trust that this 0:56:42.200 --> 0:56:47.759 earth and dam will hold for the rest of human history. Right. 0:56:48.560 --> 0:56:52.200 It's just hard to buy. It's hard the toxic sludge 0:56:52.440 --> 0:56:55.839 does last for eternity as far as you know, it's 0:56:55.880 --> 0:56:58.480 got a it's got a greater life expectancy than the 0:56:58.560 --> 0:57:01.200 damn that's for sure. So that's where in this mind, 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:04.680 like in a nutshell, that's where this mind becomes really problematic. Uh, 0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:06.920 there is that. But your original point is exactly right, 0:57:06.960 --> 0:57:08.839 and that's what you know, Tim, and you know Tim 0:57:08.880 --> 0:57:10.680 and I used to work together and try to limit it, 0:57:11.080 --> 0:57:13.400 and he you know. So the trick now is how 0:57:13.400 --> 0:57:16.000 do you permanently protect that area? Do you do land 0:57:16.040 --> 0:57:18.320 swap with the state and give them some federal lands 0:57:18.320 --> 0:57:20.600 where they actually me make some money, you know? Do 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:23.479 you get the state legislature to designate all those state 0:57:23.600 --> 0:57:26.720 lands as you know, some sort of you know, salmon reserve, 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:29.680 you know, something like that. But you know, there's nothing 0:57:29.720 --> 0:57:32.720 to stop the next fly by Night and jackass company 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:35.040 coming in there five years from now and they think 0:57:35.080 --> 0:57:37.960 they have favorable politicians and do the exact same thing again. 0:57:39.040 --> 0:57:44.760 M do you think that will kind of put a 0:57:44.760 --> 0:57:46.600 wrap on this? Now? Do you think that's just the 0:57:46.600 --> 0:57:50.800 the appetite, the political appetite too, Like, just squash this 0:57:50.920 --> 0:57:52.640 once and for all, you think it will be left 0:57:52.640 --> 0:57:55.280 to linger. No, I think there's an appetite, you know, 0:57:55.560 --> 0:57:58.000 thank you Tom Collier to kill this once and for 0:57:58.040 --> 0:58:00.919 all now. And so I think that you know, Lisa 0:58:00.960 --> 0:58:03.200 mccowski is already on record and you know, variety of 0:58:03.240 --> 0:58:07.080 publications saying that she wants to find a permanent protection 0:58:07.160 --> 0:58:11.760 mechanism for Bristol days. Yeah. Now, one of the things 0:58:11.760 --> 0:58:15.240 that I was wondering about when you know, I was 0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:21.320 pretty happy when um, Donald Trump Jr. Uh, Tucker Carlson, 0:58:21.480 --> 0:58:26.680 a number of right wing figures came out and you know, 0:58:27.080 --> 0:58:30.400 varying degrees of intensity, but came out like in opposition 0:58:30.440 --> 0:58:33.240 to pebble mind. And I went, remember, I remember wondering 0:58:34.200 --> 0:58:37.480 if this would somehow be like cover or could be 0:58:37.560 --> 0:58:42.400 justified as cover for something else. Uh, which I think 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:45.160 And now that's like a conspiracy theory that exists in 0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:48.080 my own head or not. But layout where we're at, 0:58:48.520 --> 0:58:50.959 you know, in the year and review around the Arctic 0:58:51.040 --> 0:58:59.480 National Wildlife Refuge. So another premier, um, another massive, premier 0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:05.960 pristine ecosystem in Alaska that for my entire life we've 0:59:06.000 --> 0:59:11.600 been arguing about do we leave it be or do 0:59:11.720 --> 0:59:15.520 we tap its resources? Yeah, so a little bit of 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:17.680 background on this one. And again you know, we don't 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:20.080 do a whole lot with an wharf which is arcade 0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:26.280 National Wilife Refuge. But but you know, there's history here. 0:59:26.320 --> 0:59:28.720 So when the Alaska Native Lands, I guess it was 0:59:28.760 --> 0:59:32.560 Alaska National Interest Lands Act passed in the nineties seventies, 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:37.520 which created most of the national parks, refuges, forests we 0:59:37.600 --> 0:59:41.000 have in Alaska, it was silent on what to do 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:44.000 with the coastal plane of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. 0:59:44.080 --> 0:59:47.560 It basically the four miles of coastal plane and by 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:50.919 that north slope twelve hundreds of miles of which were 0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:54.360 open for oil and gas development, two hundred miles being 0:59:54.400 --> 0:59:57.920 that and more coastal plane. We're basically to be determined 0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:00.160 what we do with it later. So when that law 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:04.000 passed in the seventies into the Carter administration, you know 1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:07.080 it basically you know, it didn't have to be Nostradama's 1:00:07.160 --> 1:00:09.040 to know you're gonna have fights over that area for 1:00:09.080 --> 1:00:11.200 a very long time. And that's just what's played out. 1:00:12.080 --> 1:00:15.400 And you know, so now here we are, you know, 1:00:15.480 --> 1:00:18.360 a long time later, and we're still dealing with it. 1:00:18.480 --> 1:00:21.600 So it's always been the goal of politicians in Alaska 1:00:21.720 --> 1:00:23.919 to open it up because they were convinced that there's 1:00:23.960 --> 1:00:26.360 the next Prude Obey is sitting under there. I think 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:29.080 it's very questionable or that's true or not. But what 1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:31.480 happened now is you finally had you know, during the 1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:34.360 beginning of this administration, you had a Republican House, Republican 1:00:34.440 --> 1:00:37.920 Senate Trump, and they jammed through opening up an war 1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:40.440 to development. And now the part of the interior is 1:00:40.480 --> 1:00:44.720 moving as fast as humanly possible to you know, get 1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:46.920 the first lease out of there, and knowing that the 1:00:46.920 --> 1:00:48.880 Biden administration when they come in, is going to shut 1:00:48.920 --> 1:00:51.480 that thing down. It's much harder to shut it down 1:00:51.880 --> 1:00:55.800 if there's already a sole lease someplace. So that's you know, 1:00:56.200 --> 1:00:58.240 that's why they're trying to get at least right now 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:01.360 and have somebody buy some thing out there so that 1:01:01.360 --> 1:01:04.400 it's much harder undo in the future. I mean, there's 1:01:04.400 --> 1:01:06.600 people that are posed to drilling in in where what 1:01:06.680 --> 1:01:09.680 are the reasons they're opposed to it? Well, I mean 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:11.600 the main thing is I think actually, you know, there's 1:01:11.600 --> 1:01:14.720 a variety of different reasons, but this the porcupine caribou 1:01:14.800 --> 1:01:17.520 herd is the main one that's their main calving grounds. 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:19.919 Obviously it's a big polar bear area too, and polar 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:22.840 bearers aren't doing great right now. But it is, you know, 1:01:22.920 --> 1:01:26.160 because it was the biological heart of the refuge, which 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:28.600 is why it wasn't set. It opened up for a 1:01:28.600 --> 1:01:31.840 well and gas development in the nineteen seventies and you know, 1:01:31.920 --> 1:01:33.600 you know, Steve, you've been up there, you know, so 1:01:33.720 --> 1:01:35.600 you've seen it. And when those cariboos come in, as 1:01:35.680 --> 1:01:40.120 you know, pretty freaking amazing and huge numbers, and in 1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:43.400 the spring in early summer. So I think that's the 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:45.720 main reason. And it's just that, you know, if you 1:01:45.760 --> 1:01:49.000 go over to prude obay Or it is a major 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:51.840 industrial city, and you know, I think there's a lot 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.200 of folks that want to leave that coastal plain over 1:01:54.200 --> 1:01:58.479 an Animore the way it is not looking like that. Yeah, 1:01:58.480 --> 1:02:02.360 you want to Uh, when you deal with something where 1:02:02.400 --> 1:02:04.640 you have this like this pebble mind issue in the 1:02:04.680 --> 1:02:10.400 ani issue, um, you do get a little self conscious. 1:02:10.440 --> 1:02:16.240 I get a little self conscious about um. The tendency, 1:02:16.640 --> 1:02:20.280 my tendency to look at every development project and be like, 1:02:20.360 --> 1:02:22.840 oh no, not there, this is a line in the sand, 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:25.840 and then the next one not there. This is a 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:29.640 line in the sand, you know. But I do feel 1:02:29.680 --> 1:02:33.000 like that, man, Um, Like I can't I don't know 1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:35.120 if there's even maybe it's just perceived. It's in my 1:02:35.200 --> 1:02:37.720 head that there's supposed to be this idea that we're 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:40.760 you trade one for the other, Like Okay, you can't 1:02:40.800 --> 1:02:44.280 do the big gold mine, but um, we'll make it 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:48.320 up to you with some oil leases. But man, I 1:02:48.320 --> 1:02:54.000 mean we're talking about places that are again like like 1:02:54.640 --> 1:02:59.880 the most productive in the case of Bristol Bay, like 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:04.880 most productive salmon fishery in the world, um with anwar 1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:11.280 one of the most pristine Arctic ecosystems on the planet. 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:14.720 So like, I want to being a little bit unapologetic, 1:03:15.360 --> 1:03:18.000 even though it's in my head that that you're being 1:03:18.040 --> 1:03:22.040 like a real obstructionists by just feel in my mind like, yeah, 1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:27.120 those those things, it's like if we can't have the 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:30.400 sort of audacity and vision to protect that kind of stuff, 1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:33.760 like nothing is sacred. Man. Yeah, I'm totally with you, 1:03:33.880 --> 1:03:35.760 and I think they're just special places out there, and 1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:37.960 there are fewer and fewer of them as more and 1:03:38.000 --> 1:03:41.280 more of our globe gets developed. I think ann war 1:03:41.840 --> 1:03:46.360 Bristol Bay Boundary Orders is one of those kind of places. Yeah, 1:03:46.360 --> 1:03:48.720 we had a big campaign the Ruby Mountains, you know, 1:03:49.880 --> 1:03:52.360 the Invada and that's you know, a pretty special place 1:03:52.400 --> 1:03:56.040 as well. They're now proposing a big titanium. Mind it 1:03:56.080 --> 1:03:58.760 was a titanium I think, so on you by the 1:03:58.760 --> 1:04:02.760 Okay Finoki Swamp and Origina, which is another pretty amazing place. So, 1:04:02.840 --> 1:04:04.720 I mean, you know, there are no place that's not 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:07.080 you know, sort of under assault in some fashion. You know, 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:09.920 talk about you know, mining near the Grand Canyon. You 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:12.160 know that's been talked about for a long time. But 1:04:12.280 --> 1:04:15.520 you can imagine extraction people, you can imagine at some 1:04:15.520 --> 1:04:18.760 point think I'll be like okay, well then where like 1:04:18.920 --> 1:04:22.080 I just took possession of in the mail a new 1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:28.800 titanium stove pipe for my seek outside stove that goes 1:04:28.840 --> 1:04:32.320 into my teepee tent um. I like that I was 1:04:32.360 --> 1:04:35.600 able to order that thing. So when people say like okay, 1:04:35.600 --> 1:04:39.560 so what okay mr, Mr, don't touch this and don't 1:04:39.600 --> 1:04:43.080 touch that? Uh, where should we be doing this? Like 1:04:43.200 --> 1:04:45.280 how do you how do you answer it? I mean, look, 1:04:45.360 --> 1:04:47.000 there are a lot of places that appropriate to mine. 1:04:47.120 --> 1:04:48.840 You know, go to Nevada, and look at a bunch 1:04:48.880 --> 1:04:51.240 of the big Barrick or Newmont or some of those 1:04:51.280 --> 1:04:54.400 you know mining developments out there. It's incredibly arid country. 1:04:54.840 --> 1:04:56.840 I mean, the basic water is the main thing that 1:04:56.920 --> 1:04:59.080 you know, gets you in the way of a good mind. 1:04:59.440 --> 1:05:01.480 And that's where dealing with in Bristol Bay, that's where 1:05:01.480 --> 1:05:04.760 you're dealing with the Ooki Finoki the boundary waters Nevada 1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:06.760 place like that, that's not an issue. I mean, I 1:05:06.800 --> 1:05:10.160 guess six inches of rainfall a year or whatever. So 1:05:10.280 --> 1:05:11.880 I mean, I just think, are there are places in 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:14.840 Nevada that are that are not being mind that could be? 1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:16.760 I mean, I guess I have no idea. I'm not 1:05:16.880 --> 1:05:19.600 you know, mineral I'm not geologists, so but I'm just 1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:21.560 saying there are appropriate places for a mine. And even 1:05:21.560 --> 1:05:23.280 there are a bunch of minds being developed in Alaska. 1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:26.200 They're fine. It's just they're not in you know, sort 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:31.360 of these amazing areas. And these presumably these amazing areas 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:37.040 too would be super cash cows for these huge energy groups. 1:05:37.160 --> 1:05:39.240 I mean, so it's not like this is the only 1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:43.000 place left. But they just by their projections, by their 1:05:43.720 --> 1:05:47.080 understanding of you know, the resource, they're like this would 1:05:47.080 --> 1:05:51.480 be major place. It's it's it's it's accepted as an 1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:56.920 objective reality that pebble is the would be the largest 1:05:57.240 --> 1:06:04.320 gold mine in human history, so they would fight for it. Yeah, 1:06:04.480 --> 1:06:06.120 but you know, part of the problem is it's not 1:06:06.200 --> 1:06:08.560 a you know, like a solid gold seem like you'd 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:10.880 find some places in other places. It's so spread out 1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:12.880 over such a large area. You have to churn up 1:06:13.200 --> 1:06:16.920 so much habitat to produce that gold and copper that 1:06:17.120 --> 1:06:19.640 it's you know, that's where you get into the problem. 1:06:19.800 --> 1:06:22.240 So it's the you know the nature of the development 1:06:22.240 --> 1:06:25.040 as well. All right, well, let's keep I want to 1:06:25.080 --> 1:06:29.520 keep bumping along on our list wolves getting federally delisted. 1:06:30.160 --> 1:06:32.400 You have that you view this as a win with 1:06:32.440 --> 1:06:35.080 some caveats. But first, is this like is this real 1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:38.880 or like like no, as Biden gonna come in like 1:06:38.960 --> 1:06:42.920 just undo this. No, the obadministration proposed it too, blocked 1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:45.280 by the courts. So you don't think you don't think 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:47.560 that you don't think that Biden will be like reflexively 1:06:47.640 --> 1:06:50.600 hostile to this idea, Well, I mean I would, I haven't. 1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:52.680 I have not spoken anybody about it over there, but 1:06:52.760 --> 1:06:55.720 I doubt it because they did it in the Obama 1:06:55.720 --> 1:06:59.320 Biden administration before. Yeah, they proposed this and he got 1:06:59.320 --> 1:07:02.000 blocked by the courts. And you know, what we're trying 1:07:02.040 --> 1:07:03.400 to do is, you know, take this out of the 1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:05.640 political sphere and make it much more of the wildlife 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:08.760 biologists controlling the decision, not the courts, not Congress, not 1:07:08.920 --> 1:07:11.520 ballot mission with someplace. And the only thing I don't 1:07:11.520 --> 1:07:14.959 like about, you know, the most recent delisting, it's done 1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:18.040 the day before the election in Minnesota, a swing state, 1:07:18.640 --> 1:07:20.080 and you how do you look at that and not 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:23.480 think it's political? And that just galvanized the opposition to it, 1:07:24.200 --> 1:07:27.080 and almost it works against our interests those of us 1:07:27.160 --> 1:07:29.200 like to see the wolf, do you listed? Yeah? You know, 1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.560 I actually, um well sometimes some other time I'll tell 1:07:32.560 --> 1:07:36.360 you a story about that timing, but um not not 1:07:36.480 --> 1:07:38.600 that's not for now. But okay, give me the caveats. 1:07:38.640 --> 1:07:40.280 So it's a win like so, so if you want 1:07:40.280 --> 1:07:43.880 to understand, it's gonna go, it's gonna go to the courts. Yeah, 1:07:43.960 --> 1:07:49.560 US Fish and Wildlife Service, we have uh trying to 1:07:49.600 --> 1:07:51.120 think it to what level of detail we want to 1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:52.960 get in here, CASSU where I mess up on this 1:07:53.280 --> 1:07:59.800 with but wolves were listed under the Endangered Species Act. 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:04.240 They were listed like sort of across the Lower forty eight. 1:08:04.480 --> 1:08:06.880 One fell swoop, right. We we just listened like so 1:08:06.920 --> 1:08:08.520 we didn't want to hit a lot. Didn't get we're 1:08:08.520 --> 1:08:11.640 not getting Alaska implicated in this because Alaska has wolves 1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:18.000 across historic range or something like that. Um, very you know, 1:08:18.160 --> 1:08:22.719 thriving wolf populations. But they were listening to Lower forty eight. Later, 1:08:22.800 --> 1:08:24.559 when we kind of got a more detailed look at 1:08:24.560 --> 1:08:29.280 the problem, we realized that thinking about the Lower forty 1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:33.200 eight as a whole isn't a great way to try 1:08:33.200 --> 1:08:38.080 to manage wolves, um because we know that they're not 1:08:38.120 --> 1:08:43.439 going to be recovered in you know, downtown Denver, right, Like, 1:08:43.479 --> 1:08:45.720 it's not gonna happen. So we should look at like 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:51.760 where could they be and where are they and kind 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:53.559 of break up the map a little bit and talk 1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:57.559 about these different population groups. And so one of these 1:08:57.600 --> 1:09:00.280 population groups is the Northern Great Lakes, and so that's 1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:06.320 wolf populations in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Uh, you wind 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:09.240 up there's all kinds of complexities in the law when 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.040 you try to go after the fact and impose this 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:16.840 logic of these distinct population segments like it creates a 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:20.240 lot of ways for people to file lawsuits. That the 1:09:20.280 --> 1:09:23.080 fact that we didn't have that system in place when 1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:25.519 they were listed, and we tried to later come in 1:09:25.600 --> 1:09:29.240 and overlay this logic, um has created a lot of trouble. 1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:34.720 So the Northern Great Lakes wolves have been you know, 1:09:34.800 --> 1:09:36.960 the US fish And while their service went and said 1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:39.320 it's time to delist them, that gets blocked in courts. 1:09:39.320 --> 1:09:42.679 That bounces back and forth. They have hunting and trapping seasons, 1:09:42.760 --> 1:09:45.200 Hunting and trapping seasons go away, then all of a 1:09:45.240 --> 1:09:47.799 sudden they were locked back up put on the endangered 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:51.479 species list. And now they're saying, um that you know, 1:09:51.520 --> 1:09:54.520 the outgoing I shouldn't time it with the outgoing administration. 1:09:54.640 --> 1:09:57.479 But they're now saying, all right, enough enough, we're does 1:09:57.560 --> 1:10:03.480 delistened the whole damn deal again, and it'll almost certainly 1:10:04.000 --> 1:10:07.439 get all wrapped up in a bunch of lawsuits, almost certainly. 1:10:08.920 --> 1:10:12.439 But it's important to note that the like the the 1:10:12.479 --> 1:10:17.799 Great Lakes, the Rocky Mountains, you know there, they've exceeded 1:10:17.800 --> 1:10:21.280 recovery goals for a long time. Like there's a reason 1:10:21.360 --> 1:10:25.000 why they're wanting to delist them. Yeah, but it's just 1:10:25.080 --> 1:10:28.320 so political and you you may well see, you know, 1:10:28.400 --> 1:10:30.719 similar to what we've had to do in the Greater 1:10:30.760 --> 1:10:35.400 Yeloste ecosystem with Congress passing specific delisting legislation for the 1:10:35.479 --> 1:10:37.840 gray wolf there. My guests is you're probably have to 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.599 see that again in the Great Lakes. And these are 1:10:41.640 --> 1:10:46.680 these are well funded anti hunting groups that are have 1:10:46.760 --> 1:10:50.000 a long term strategy to keep this inside the courts. 1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:52.160 Is that is that true? Yeah, I think that's a 1:10:52.200 --> 1:10:55.800 fair description. Yeah, and they do it like they kind 1:10:55.800 --> 1:10:58.760 of if you look at the details of these lawsuits, 1:10:59.120 --> 1:11:04.360 they sort of skirt the issue. Um, They'll often they 1:11:04.360 --> 1:11:08.439 don't argue, uh, how many wolves there are, they don't 1:11:08.520 --> 1:11:11.360 argue that. It's like you need to when you're doing 1:11:11.400 --> 1:11:15.720 these lawsuits, you're sort of going after these, um you're 1:11:15.760 --> 1:11:18.680 pursuing technicalities. You'd be like, okay, so you have a 1:11:18.680 --> 1:11:21.400 listing plan, Well, we can prove that you didn't consider 1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:25.960 something of relevance. And you know, like it's motive, it's 1:11:26.000 --> 1:11:29.280 motivated by a very it's motivated by a desire. But 1:11:29.439 --> 1:11:31.800 you take whatever little things you can get to try 1:11:31.800 --> 1:11:35.360 to like hold it up within the court during procedural 1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:39.280 administrative issues. Those are the main ones that stick. Now. 1:11:39.320 --> 1:11:41.519 The irony is, of course, if you know wolves had 1:11:41.560 --> 1:11:43.479 been delisted, you wouldn't have to do a ballot initiative 1:11:43.479 --> 1:11:46.000 in Colorado. They could just go ahead and reintroduce them. 1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:49.840 Oh is that right? Oh yeah, huh. I really should 1:11:49.880 --> 1:11:53.960 know this. As a predator hunter, if wolves have been 1:11:54.000 --> 1:11:57.040 on the endangered species lists, why can we hunt them 1:11:57.040 --> 1:12:00.760 in Idaho and in other places? Because you know there 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:03.800 was the courts did not sing allowed those states to 1:12:03.840 --> 1:12:09.479 move forward, and you know that was all the Great States. 1:12:09.520 --> 1:12:11.759 You know, I think Wyoming may still be in litigation 1:12:11.800 --> 1:12:13.680 about his plan, but you know that's been on and 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:16.519 off because Wyoming didn't have a robust a plan as 1:12:16.560 --> 1:12:18.960 the other states didn't. Oh no, they had, they had. 1:12:19.160 --> 1:12:21.600 I thought they were insane, but they're kind of in 1:12:21.640 --> 1:12:23.840 the end one like Wyoming wanted to come in, Like 1:12:23.880 --> 1:12:26.439 all the states in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem came up 1:12:26.439 --> 1:12:29.360 with these management plans, right, and Wyoming came up with 1:12:29.360 --> 1:12:32.000 this management plan or they're basically saying, Okay, the area 1:12:32.040 --> 1:12:35.320 around the in the g y area, the area on Yellowstone, 1:12:35.880 --> 1:12:38.040 they'll be managed like as a big game animal. But 1:12:38.040 --> 1:12:41.320 then they took a huge chunk of the state and said, 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:46.519 and here they'll be managed like coyotes. No bag limits, 1:12:46.520 --> 1:12:50.400 no reporting structure, no closed season. And I thought that 1:12:50.439 --> 1:12:53.000 they were insane to try that approach and that they 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:54.680 would never get there. And I was like, man, you're 1:12:54.680 --> 1:12:57.320 shooting yourself in the foot with that. But they stuck 1:12:57.360 --> 1:13:03.719 it out, stuck to their guns, pun intended, and God, 1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:07.599 despite what the Clintons wanted, God, despite the Clintons, they 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:12.320 got what they were after. Um and and so I 1:13:12.439 --> 1:13:16.200 was I thought that was a pretty bold play on 1:13:16.240 --> 1:13:18.400 their part. But when when when in our list here 1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:23.160 delisting what you have some caveats, explain the caveats. Oh, 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:25.000 I was just what I was saying is that you 1:13:25.040 --> 1:13:27.360 know this is not yes as good as it scenes, 1:13:27.360 --> 1:13:28.800 because I think it's going to go straight back into 1:13:28.800 --> 1:13:32.599 the courts. So yeah, well hit hit again. I think 1:13:32.600 --> 1:13:35.639 that that that's the main caveat is that you don't 1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:37.680 go out and buy a license tomorrow. Yeah, okay, but 1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:42.040 what about Mexican gray wolf protections? Yeah, I'm again, I'm 1:13:42.080 --> 1:13:44.000 not an expert down there. I'm not even gonna venture 1:13:44.000 --> 1:13:47.320 into it. Is there any solution to keep it out 1:13:47.320 --> 1:13:49.360 of the courts. I mean, it just seems like like 1:13:49.520 --> 1:13:52.599 the best arguments that we can come up with. I mean, 1:13:52.760 --> 1:13:54.960 is there going to have to be wolves running through 1:13:55.000 --> 1:13:59.559 the streets of Chicago before the lawsuits? Just what I 1:13:59.600 --> 1:14:02.520 think that you're gonna see, you know, probably congressional legislation 1:14:02.520 --> 1:14:08.960 on something like the Great Lakes population. That exactly when 1:14:09.000 --> 1:14:10.880 when you talk to when you talk to people who 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:14.719 are opposed to delisting wolves like wolf, like you know, Diard, 1:14:14.760 --> 1:14:18.320 wolf advocates that aren't aren't interested in a compromised solution. 1:14:18.800 --> 1:14:22.040 They love to point out that we've only recovered wolves 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:27.519 across the fraction of their range. Um they seldom considered, well, yeah, 1:14:27.560 --> 1:14:30.240 but they're they're right, And I like to point out 1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:34.599 to them that we've only recovered elk across ten percent 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:38.200 of their range. But we manage elk hunting and elk 1:14:38.240 --> 1:14:44.120 populations in a lot of places very effectively. But we 1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:48.560 still don't have uh elk across the entire state of Nebraska, 1:14:49.000 --> 1:14:55.000 which historically we did. So it is possible to manage 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:59.120 a species as a renewable resource, as a game species, 1:14:59.640 --> 1:15:02.679 while you're still pushing ahead with a broader recovery plan. 1:15:02.920 --> 1:15:16.679 Because we do it all the damn time. Okay, gutting 1:15:16.680 --> 1:15:18.880 the farm bill. Yeah, this is the farm bill is 1:15:18.920 --> 1:15:21.000 a loss. Explain to people what the hell that what? 1:15:20.800 --> 1:15:23.760 What what the farm bill is? Yeah? So the farm Bill, 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.880 he know, is the single largest conservation program in this country, 1:15:27.160 --> 1:15:31.559 six billion dollars annually to incentivize conservation on private lands, 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:37.120 the conservation reserve program, you know, wetland areas, grassland areas, 1:15:38.040 --> 1:15:42.360 you know, just restoring various types of habitats. But it 1:15:42.520 --> 1:15:44.800 unlike a lot of the environmental stuff we've talked about, 1:15:45.080 --> 1:15:47.800 like the Endangered Species Act, the the Farm Bill is 1:15:47.840 --> 1:15:51.120 all voluntary. It's all incentive based. So the ideas you 1:15:51.160 --> 1:15:54.160 give a farmer an incentive to enroll the land in 1:15:54.200 --> 1:15:57.960 a good conservation practice, and it's been incredibly successful. And 1:15:58.160 --> 1:15:59.960 just one of the areas, the one we focus on 1:16:00.040 --> 1:16:03.200 a lot is the Conservation Reserve program, which was really 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:07.120 created back in the nineteen eighties as essentially a supply 1:16:07.280 --> 1:16:10.599 management tool when during the farm crisis to get people 1:16:10.800 --> 1:16:13.439 give money to farmers and have them set aside land 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:16.840 so that they have money to in spite of really 1:16:16.920 --> 1:16:20.439 terrible markets. So in its height, you know, the farm 1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:24.559 Bill Conservations Deserve program about thirty seven million acres enrolled 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:27.479 in it. And you know that's good for you know, 1:16:28.040 --> 1:16:30.719 upland Burghs is good for deer, it's good for water quality, 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:34.720 it benefits pretty much everything. Today, you know, that program 1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:39.280 is down to twenty point seven million acres. Give me 1:16:39.320 --> 1:16:42.639 the number again, at its height twenty about thirty seven 1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:47.599 million acres down to down to the lowest level today 1:16:47.920 --> 1:16:50.719 is today is the lowest level we've seen really since 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:53.439 the creation of the program, and that is twenty point 1:16:53.520 --> 1:16:57.639 seven million acres and we're expecting another probably three million 1:16:57.680 --> 1:17:02.760 acres to expire in twenty one. So and at the 1:17:02.760 --> 1:17:04.800 same time, we're giving I think you know, the last 1:17:04.800 --> 1:17:07.960 two years, we gave thirty billion dollars to farmers because 1:17:08.040 --> 1:17:11.080 the trade wars are going on with China and depressed markets. 1:17:11.200 --> 1:17:14.960 Is essentially a bailout, not asking to do anything. At 1:17:14.960 --> 1:17:19.559 the same time, we're just starving the Conservation Reserve program 1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:22.360 and we're not offering enough in terms of rental rates, 1:17:22.400 --> 1:17:24.559 we're not offering enough the sentives for folks to get 1:17:24.560 --> 1:17:27.320 into the program. A. So you're seeing it basically, you know, 1:17:27.400 --> 1:17:30.880 dying on the vine. Our farmers are farmers wanting to 1:17:30.960 --> 1:17:34.160 get involved, but they're just not sure. They just can't 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:36.080 make the numbers work with the way they're trying to 1:17:36.160 --> 1:17:38.760 fund it. Yeah, and they've you know, there's a lot 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:40.840 of interest to sign up for it, but when you're 1:17:40.840 --> 1:17:44.200 offering low Brunwald rights and minimal incentives to get in, 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:46.439 you're not gonna have a whole lot of interests for 1:17:46.479 --> 1:17:49.200 folks to lock up their land for ten or twenty 1:17:49.280 --> 1:17:52.160 or whatever many years. So what are they doing? I mean, 1:17:52.200 --> 1:17:56.080 they're they're growing crops on that land and yeah, exactly, 1:17:56.960 --> 1:18:00.080 so they're tilling it and growing something and getting a 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:03.920 bail up from Congress. So what we want to try 1:18:03.920 --> 1:18:06.640 to do is really try to reincentivize that, you know, 1:18:06.720 --> 1:18:09.799 the Farm Bill program, and have a much more honest 1:18:09.840 --> 1:18:12.679 effort to get it implemented. And I think the Trump 1:18:12.720 --> 1:18:14.880 administration has been a mixed bag. A lot of conservation 1:18:14.920 --> 1:18:17.679 areas good on things like Great American Outdoors Act, good 1:18:17.680 --> 1:18:20.880 on migration corvers, but they have been really bad in 1:18:21.000 --> 1:18:23.479 terms of conservation on private lands through the Farm Bill. 1:18:23.840 --> 1:18:25.680 What is it? What give me an argument against the 1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:28.400 Farm Bill? Like, well, what do they not like about 1:18:28.400 --> 1:18:30.760 the Farm Bill? It costs a lot of money. Yeah, 1:18:30.800 --> 1:18:32.519 but we have subsidies that cost a lot of money. 1:18:32.960 --> 1:18:36.560 Oh yeah, No, I know. It ties the farmer's hands. 1:18:36.760 --> 1:18:39.680 It requires more effort to implement. It's it's easier to 1:18:39.680 --> 1:18:41.800 write somebody a check and send it out there. And 1:18:41.840 --> 1:18:44.720 if you have a Department of Agriculture or Office of 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:48.320 Management or budget that doesn't really care about conservation, it's 1:18:48.320 --> 1:18:51.120 not going to prioritize this. And you know, plus you 1:18:51.120 --> 1:18:53.799 look at a program like the you know, conservation Reserve program. 1:18:53.920 --> 1:18:57.360 It's in the Farm Service Agency and not in the 1:18:57.439 --> 1:19:00.720 National Resource Conservation Service, and our c S wakes up 1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:04.160 every day thinking about conservation Farm Services f S A 1:19:04.320 --> 1:19:07.439 does not. So again, it's not a high priority for 1:19:07.479 --> 1:19:10.320 the agency that administers it. Not a high priority for 1:19:11.200 --> 1:19:13.960 Sunny Purdue, not a high priority for you know, Nick 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:17.719 mulvanny and omb. So you know, it's a perfect storm 1:19:17.800 --> 1:19:21.080 of you know, just it's just not getting implemented. How 1:19:21.200 --> 1:19:24.160 has it? This is like a horrible generalization, But let's 1:19:24.160 --> 1:19:28.840 say I went out and found a random sampling. I 1:19:28.840 --> 1:19:35.879 somehow pulled a random sampling of a hundred farmers, uh, 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:38.040 and I put to them, hey, what do you all 1:19:38.040 --> 1:19:41.439 think of the farm bill, And what do y'all think 1:19:41.479 --> 1:19:45.880 of the CRP program? What am I going to hear back? Uh, 1:19:45.960 --> 1:19:48.240 you're probably the next bag. I think a lot of 1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:50.960 them really like it because it provides seuple been an 1:19:50.960 --> 1:19:53.800 income for areas that they may not want a farm, 1:19:53.880 --> 1:19:56.479 or made me recognize that it's great to have pheasants 1:19:56.479 --> 1:19:58.600 on there too, And then they could do a you know, 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:01.040 walk in program and have extra money from hunting on 1:20:01.080 --> 1:20:03.640 their property also. So I think the ones that have 1:20:03.720 --> 1:20:05.320 done it, I mean again, I think that if they 1:20:05.320 --> 1:20:08.800 were to do another enrollment and offer better incentives, you 1:20:08.880 --> 1:20:12.880 see widespread interests for you know, big sign ups. If 1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:17.040 you know it you started, Yeah, broody? How how do 1:20:17.120 --> 1:20:22.120 you think how farming has changed plays a role here? 1:20:22.160 --> 1:20:26.599 Like you have a lot more gigantic commercial fence defense 1:20:26.720 --> 1:20:30.280 farms that like there's not a tree anywhere, there's not 1:20:30.400 --> 1:20:33.280 a fallow field anywhere, and you've got a lot less 1:20:33.920 --> 1:20:38.920 small farms that traditionally had brush or fallow fields or 1:20:38.960 --> 1:20:42.679 shelter belts or whatever. Like. Are those big giant commercial 1:20:42.680 --> 1:20:46.880 farms just less interested in being involved with this? Absolutely? 1:20:46.960 --> 1:20:48.479 And I think that when you had the you know, 1:20:48.520 --> 1:20:52.000 the old time you know, small farmer or even you know, 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:53.920 the low person who lived on the land and cared 1:20:53.920 --> 1:20:56.120 about it and took real pride in it. You know, 1:20:56.200 --> 1:20:59.640 that's very different than you know, when you basically contracted 1:20:59.640 --> 1:21:02.720 out for somebody just to maximize profit of it. And 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:05.960 I think that's part of what we're seeing. Um So, no, 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:07.400 I think that's part of it. At the same time, 1:21:07.439 --> 1:21:10.320 you know, technology is you know, with precision agriculture things 1:21:10.360 --> 1:21:12.680 like that, you can be a lot smarter about how 1:21:12.720 --> 1:21:15.840 you farm. You can target areas that you may be 1:21:15.920 --> 1:21:19.160 more productive for you to grow soybeans or corn, and 1:21:19.200 --> 1:21:21.800 you know, protect other areas that are much better use 1:21:21.880 --> 1:21:26.639 being in a CRP land. So to simplify the issue, 1:21:26.840 --> 1:21:31.240 it's an issue of funding because the funding is there, 1:21:31.880 --> 1:21:34.920 funding just is not being used. Okay, so, but why 1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:38.200 wouldn't they offer more incentive through making the price super high, 1:21:38.280 --> 1:21:42.200 like making it so they should advantageous were we were 1:21:42.280 --> 1:21:43.960 landing that that's what we want to have happened, and 1:21:44.000 --> 1:21:47.080 that's what's happened in the past. But if the farmer 1:21:47.160 --> 1:21:49.760 for whatever reason, is not not being offered very much money, 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:52.320 not being offered the incentive to get into it, and 1:21:52.360 --> 1:21:55.000 again Congress has made this money help let's sitting out there, 1:21:55.160 --> 1:21:58.200 it's just not being offered by the Department of Agriculture 1:21:58.200 --> 1:22:01.120 to the farmers. So that's about question where's the where's 1:22:01.160 --> 1:22:04.919 the stop point for that price tag? Like who decides 1:22:04.960 --> 1:22:08.120 how much money is going per acre to those farmers 1:22:08.120 --> 1:22:11.439 because if if it was financially advantagious, they would do it. Yeah, 1:22:11.479 --> 1:22:14.000 obviously that various depending on where you are, because you know, 1:22:14.080 --> 1:22:17.439 one price doesn't fit all because different for you. So 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:20.320 there there are very local mechanisms to set those prices. 1:22:21.000 --> 1:22:23.160 But basically, you know, we want to have a program 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:26.479 that is robust enough that folks want to get into 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:28.640 it and they're willing to put decent land into it, 1:22:28.680 --> 1:22:32.760 not a bunch of just marginal habitat that can't grow anything. So, 1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:35.040 you know, that's been one of my real frustrations is 1:22:35.200 --> 1:22:37.120 you know, just that the implementation of the farm bill, 1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:38.840 because the last farm Bill was really good. I mean, 1:22:38.880 --> 1:22:42.040 it dedicated a lot of money six billion dollars annually 1:22:42.160 --> 1:22:45.880 to conservation. You know, it dedicated more money to conservation 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:49.960 than it did to basically traditional farm programs. And so 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:52.400 we we love that, and there's still a lot of 1:22:52.400 --> 1:22:54.680 really good programs in the Farm bill, but it just 1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:59.320 needs to have, you know, a much stronger orientation towards 1:22:59.320 --> 1:23:02.840 the implementation and making it work. Okay, what's the what's 1:23:02.840 --> 1:23:07.720 the ACE Act? So that's the Yeah, this is an 1:23:07.800 --> 1:23:10.080 act that was passed, you know, this past year, the 1:23:10.120 --> 1:23:14.960 American Conservation Enhancement Act, huge win. It had I think 1:23:15.080 --> 1:23:18.280 six or seven different individual bills underneath it. Again the 1:23:18.320 --> 1:23:20.880 idea that Congress passes big bills to have a lot 1:23:20.880 --> 1:23:24.120 of little components in it. It reauthorized in North American 1:23:24.120 --> 1:23:30.000 Wetland Conservation Act, reauthorized, National Fisher Wildlife Foundation authorized for 1:23:30.040 --> 1:23:33.559 the first time, National Fish Habitat Partnership Act, which has 1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:35.720 been around administratively for a while but had never been 1:23:35.760 --> 1:23:40.600 codified by Congress. Great Lakes program, Chest Peak Bay program, 1:23:40.960 --> 1:23:44.599 all really good you know, on the ground conservation programs. 1:23:44.600 --> 1:23:47.760 Who do we have to thank for? That was that bipartisan? Yep, 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:50.960 very by partisan. It passed. I can't remember the exact 1:23:51.040 --> 1:23:54.959 vote counts, but overwhelmingly, you know, not close. Martin Heinrich, 1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:57.000 who you know, you know, worked really hard on that 1:23:57.720 --> 1:24:00.560 variety of others, but no, it was you It was 1:24:00.720 --> 1:24:04.960 very bipartisan. Very few people opposed it. It was again 1:24:04.960 --> 1:24:07.320 a place where they could come together. When when when 1:24:07.360 --> 1:24:09.400 you're doing something like that and it is a bunch 1:24:09.400 --> 1:24:11.360 of stuff rolled together, is there a lot of in 1:24:11.560 --> 1:24:14.320 fighting about trying to keep crazy stuff out that's just 1:24:14.320 --> 1:24:17.280 gonna want to that's going to turn people off. Yeah, 1:24:17.320 --> 1:24:18.840 And that's one of the strategies of the folks that 1:24:18.840 --> 1:24:21.920 are anti conservation. They'll try to get poison pills added 1:24:21.960 --> 1:24:24.519 just to things too. It kills the whole bill. So 1:24:24.600 --> 1:24:26.880 that is part of you know, the the art and 1:24:26.960 --> 1:24:29.360 science managing these bills when they're on the you know, 1:24:29.400 --> 1:24:32.200 the floor or you know, in committee and the Congress, 1:24:32.479 --> 1:24:35.040 they're in Senator of the House, is you know, just 1:24:35.280 --> 1:24:38.560 keeping that silly stuff out of there and keeping the 1:24:38.600 --> 1:24:41.320 poison pills away. I mean, you know right, you know, 1:24:41.520 --> 1:24:43.080 there was a lot of folks who wanted to see 1:24:43.120 --> 1:24:47.080 great lakes, you know, wolf delisting on that bill. It 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:49.479 was just but it was you know, and we we 1:24:49.520 --> 1:24:51.599 were one of them, but it was one of those 1:24:51.600 --> 1:24:55.040 things that could potentially derail that bill because of the 1:24:55.120 --> 1:24:58.320 vehemence of the opposition from some folks. So you're put 1:24:58.320 --> 1:25:00.040 in a position where you gotta keep it clean in 1:25:00.120 --> 1:25:02.400 order just to get the win. Yeah, listen, we would 1:25:02.400 --> 1:25:03.840 love to see a bunch of other stuff in there, 1:25:03.880 --> 1:25:07.519 but we'll take the good instead of the perfect. Yeah 1:25:08.120 --> 1:25:13.720 you said, you said anti conservationists or anti conservation with 1:25:13.800 --> 1:25:17.479 it being so bipartisan, who is this? I mean there 1:25:17.520 --> 1:25:20.479 are fringe elements. Uh you know that. You know, I 1:25:20.600 --> 1:25:23.200 don't like public lands. I mean we've talked about them. 1:25:23.280 --> 1:25:26.400 They rail against them all the time. Who think that 1:25:26.479 --> 1:25:30.720 any money that's going to you know, conservation, Yeah, there 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:33.639 is a waste of money. Yeah. So it's a different 1:25:33.640 --> 1:25:36.320 orientation and they've sort of you know, you can do 1:25:36.360 --> 1:25:38.240 a little you know, Google research and figre out who 1:25:38.240 --> 1:25:41.439 we're talking about. But yeah, there's a handful of members 1:25:41.479 --> 1:25:44.680 who just don't like this stuff and always fight against it. 1:25:44.920 --> 1:25:48.439 But they wouldn't describe themselves. Oh no, of course not. 1:25:48.720 --> 1:25:53.160 How do they describe themselves that just like just unfettered, frugal, 1:25:53.840 --> 1:25:55.759 you know, get the government out of this stuff. Government 1:25:55.840 --> 1:25:58.800 shouldn't be involved with this. Yeah. Yeah, So they either 1:25:58.880 --> 1:26:02.639 use the libertarian coach or the you know, the definite 1:26:02.640 --> 1:26:05.679 hawk approach when it suits their purposes. But they don't 1:26:05.680 --> 1:26:12.320 say I hate animals. No, No, Uh, they may say 1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:14.640 I hate public lands. Oh no, I don't know that, 1:26:14.720 --> 1:26:17.200 but that that's getting like less and less tenable all 1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:19.360 the time. Though, man, you gotta yes, yes, it is 1:26:19.880 --> 1:26:24.400 thankfully so hippy with uh we have, as in the 1:26:24.479 --> 1:26:29.160 lost column environmental rollbacks. Walk that through a little bit 1:26:29.200 --> 1:26:31.880 like like well, I mean, let's talk about the Clean 1:26:31.920 --> 1:26:35.599 Water Act. So, you know, clean Water Act obviously, it 1:26:35.680 --> 1:26:38.200 was a product of the early nineteen seventies after we 1:26:38.200 --> 1:26:42.240 saw the Cuyahoga River cash on fire, and it is, 1:26:42.360 --> 1:26:45.320 you know, fundamentally changed water quality in this country to 1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.640 the point where the majority of our waters are now fishable, swimmable, 1:26:48.800 --> 1:26:51.640 maybe not drinkable, but you know, still it's you know, 1:26:51.720 --> 1:26:54.720 done an amazing job of cleaning your stuff up. Now, 1:26:54.760 --> 1:26:57.760 the controversy has been to a large aread, not what 1:26:57.840 --> 1:26:59.920 comes out of a tail pipe someplace or a sewer 1:27:00.040 --> 1:27:03.000 hype from a factory into a river. The issue is 1:27:03.080 --> 1:27:06.800 much more evolved into you know, say, open space and 1:27:06.880 --> 1:27:09.120 what is covered and what is not covered by the 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:11.880 Clean Water Act. And there were two rulings by the 1:27:11.880 --> 1:27:15.120 Supreme Court back in the two thousand's, two thousand and 1:27:15.200 --> 1:27:18.400 four and two thousand seven. I believe that basically you know, 1:27:18.760 --> 1:27:22.479 said Congress, you have needs to define what is and 1:27:22.520 --> 1:27:24.680 what is not included in the Clean Water Act. Is 1:27:24.720 --> 1:27:28.519 a farm pond included? Is the irrigation ditch included? Is 1:27:28.560 --> 1:27:32.559 an ephemeral stream or you know, isolated wetland included? And 1:27:32.640 --> 1:27:35.200 so it basically told Congress to do that. Congress never 1:27:35.600 --> 1:27:38.240 took it up, is you know, it's too controversial. So 1:27:38.280 --> 1:27:43.320 you've had ministrations ever since defining it themselves. The Obama administration, 1:27:43.640 --> 1:27:45.799 we thought, did a very good job with the Waters 1:27:45.800 --> 1:27:49.200 of the United States, which defined what was included in 1:27:49.240 --> 1:27:53.840 that in the overall navigable rivers standards. So you know, 1:27:53.920 --> 1:27:56.519 a heart strict reading of the Clean Water Acts as 1:27:56.520 --> 1:27:58.439 a navigate river is something you can actually you know, 1:27:58.479 --> 1:28:02.000 flow the boat down. A much more scientific based reading 1:28:02.040 --> 1:28:04.320 the statute is there are a lot of little streams 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:08.479 that impact or wetlands impact that navigable water directly that 1:28:08.600 --> 1:28:10.960 need to be included, because you know, that's not the 1:28:10.960 --> 1:28:13.360 way river's work is just protecting it and not any 1:28:13.360 --> 1:28:17.800 of the tributaries. So the administration set out a complex 1:28:17.920 --> 1:28:20.960 rulemaking process that basically laid out what was and what 1:28:21.080 --> 1:28:24.080 is not included. It eliminated you know, any sort of 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:29.400 coverage for things like farm ponds, irrigation ditches, conventional agricultural practices, 1:28:29.520 --> 1:28:33.600 things like that. But it did protect headwater streams, wetlands, 1:28:34.120 --> 1:28:39.080 and even some isolated wetlands when there was a scientific justification. 1:28:40.080 --> 1:28:44.360 So incomes the Trump administration and proceeds to basically undo that, 1:28:44.439 --> 1:28:50.200 eliminates all the protections for headwater streams and isolated wetlands. 1:28:50.280 --> 1:28:54.040 So essentially decreased by fift The wetlands that are covered 1:28:54.520 --> 1:28:57.759 are protected by the Clean Water Act and probably decreased 1:28:57.800 --> 1:29:00.559 by maybe a quarter. You know, the stream miles are protected. 1:29:00.720 --> 1:29:04.080 And the rationale there is that. I mean, it basically 1:29:04.280 --> 1:29:10.160 come down to job creation and industry right like making sure. 1:29:10.360 --> 1:29:12.240 I mean that's not what that was some of the 1:29:12.320 --> 1:29:14.760 arguments they use and the heavy hand of government, and 1:29:14.760 --> 1:29:17.840 they always trot out a few horror stories where there 1:29:17.920 --> 1:29:20.680 was indeed, you know, federal overreach and some port you know, 1:29:20.760 --> 1:29:23.240 dude that's just trying to build a farm shed or something, 1:29:23.760 --> 1:29:26.080 you know, gets blocked by some evil person of the 1:29:26.080 --> 1:29:28.720 e p A. So you know, I mean there's you know, 1:29:28.760 --> 1:29:31.360 there have been abuses, no question, but it also argues 1:29:31.400 --> 1:29:34.200 for let's better define what is what is not included 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:37.320 and our ideas, let's not define it so that you know, 1:29:37.360 --> 1:29:39.639 half the wetlands in this country are no longer protected. 1:29:40.360 --> 1:29:42.719 And it's really you know, they trot the farmers out 1:29:42.760 --> 1:29:46.680 as the main you know, sort of victims and an 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:50.640 overly robust Clean Water Act. Honestly, the way that the 1:29:50.760 --> 1:29:54.080 vulnerable is written, it was eliminated, you know, basically, it's 1:29:54.080 --> 1:29:57.040 not you know, if you have normal farm practices, farm ponds, 1:29:57.080 --> 1:29:59.960 irrigation ditches, those are not included in Clean Water Act. 1:30:00.000 --> 1:30:02.479 Everyone knows that. But it's a lot easier trott a 1:30:02.560 --> 1:30:04.640 farmer out there and say, you know, you're trying to 1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:07.439 story my livelihood than a real estate developer out there 1:30:07.439 --> 1:30:09.320 who says you're going to block him, I being a 1:30:09.360 --> 1:30:11.680 mini mall that I want to put in. Yeah, you 1:30:12.400 --> 1:30:13.920 do you feel that they could have had a better 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:17.240 way of fixing the problems. Congress needs to deal with us. 1:30:17.600 --> 1:30:20.040 So we have a situation now because Congress won't deal 1:30:20.080 --> 1:30:22.960 with this. You know, you have different administrations are to 1:30:23.080 --> 1:30:25.599 keep your genuflecting back and forth and pendulum is gonna 1:30:25.680 --> 1:30:28.240 back and forth. And if you're a developer, if you're 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:30.640 a landowner, if you're a farmer. You're never gonna have 1:30:30.680 --> 1:30:32.439 any source of certainty about what is and what is 1:30:32.479 --> 1:30:35.360 not covered. And listen, I have I completely agree with 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:38.559 that uncertainty is a terrible thing. And we've been arguing 1:30:38.600 --> 1:30:43.160 that Congress, you know, Republicans, Democrats get together and decide 1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:46.640 what is covered and do it, you know, statutorially, so 1:30:46.720 --> 1:30:49.040 that we don't have an administration just swinging back and 1:30:49.080 --> 1:30:54.440 forth that we attacked by the of course all the time. Uh. 1:30:54.600 --> 1:30:59.879 The lost column c w D as well, uh continues 1:30:59.920 --> 1:31:06.679 to spread no real consensus from the sportsman community. Well, 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:08.360 I mean I think y'all listen, I mean, there are 1:31:08.400 --> 1:31:10.920 some people that you pretend it's not out there. They're 1:31:10.920 --> 1:31:13.479 gonna be you know, the science deniers, but the majority 1:31:13.479 --> 1:31:15.360 of folks recognize it as a threat. I don't think 1:31:15.360 --> 1:31:18.960 anyone pretends it's not out there, all right. Maybe they 1:31:19.000 --> 1:31:21.679 just they just say it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter. 1:31:21.720 --> 1:31:24.479 It's never going to jump to humans, you know whatever. 1:31:25.040 --> 1:31:28.440 You're not gonna see population impacts unless you replace like Wisconsin, 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:32.120 we're seeing population impacts. So you know, I think that 1:31:32.200 --> 1:31:34.599 you know, prudence would dictate that we get on top 1:31:34.640 --> 1:31:37.479 of this, and uh, you know, we got five million 1:31:37.479 --> 1:31:39.320 dollars appropriate to last year to go out to the 1:31:39.360 --> 1:31:42.439 States to kick up surveillance and tests. Just peanuts, I mean, 1:31:42.479 --> 1:31:45.000 that's just peanuts. So we had fifteen million in the 1:31:45.040 --> 1:31:47.640 House bill that you know, the Senate cut down to 1:31:47.720 --> 1:31:50.600 five and you know, I was piste, but five is 1:31:50.600 --> 1:31:52.680 better than zero, which just was before that. Yeah, but 1:31:52.720 --> 1:31:56.680 it's it's a joke. Yeah, it's a joke. But you know, 1:31:56.680 --> 1:31:59.759 a Department Agriculture, you know, drags his feet and getting 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:01.240 the money out the door and then only gets to 1:32:01.240 --> 1:32:03.160 you about two and a half million out to the States, 1:32:03.200 --> 1:32:07.320 and the other is used for indemnity payments for captive farms, 1:32:07.760 --> 1:32:09.680 is used for genetic research and how he might be 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:11.760 able to modify white tail deer and make him live 1:32:11.800 --> 1:32:15.600 longer it will c w D, and is for administrative 1:32:15.600 --> 1:32:17.720 services you know, which nobody knows what that is. But 1:32:17.840 --> 1:32:21.360 basically just they paid for themselves. So you know, even 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:23.599 of that piddling amount we got through Congress, only half 1:32:23.600 --> 1:32:25.760 of that actually made it out to the States, you know, 1:32:25.800 --> 1:32:29.040 to expand surveillance and testing. So it's just you know, 1:32:29.160 --> 1:32:33.160 there is you know, the you know that basically Department 1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:36.759 Agriculture has done a terrible job in terms of getting 1:32:36.800 --> 1:32:39.519 on top of this. Now I give Interior some credit 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:42.280 because they've been pretty vocal about this, and we managed 1:32:42.320 --> 1:32:44.439 to get in the ACE Act that I talked about, 1:32:45.280 --> 1:32:49.120 establishment by law of an inter agency Chronic Wasting Disease 1:32:49.200 --> 1:32:53.200 Task Force, So Department of Agriculture, Department of the Interior, 1:32:53.920 --> 1:32:56.360 you know, probably some other agencies to all get together 1:32:56.400 --> 1:32:58.160 and figure out how we're going to stop the spread 1:32:58.160 --> 1:33:00.840 of this thing. Is it ation was gonna be? What 1:33:00.960 --> 1:33:03.519 needs to happen with in your opinion, I mean, do 1:33:03.600 --> 1:33:06.120 we need Like if we had all the money in 1:33:06.160 --> 1:33:08.759 the world, what would we do. First of all, you 1:33:08.760 --> 1:33:11.200 you have to get control of the captive deer industry, 1:33:11.320 --> 1:33:13.920 which continues to be the biggest spread of this, even 1:33:13.920 --> 1:33:16.120 though they want to admit that. But any time you 1:33:16.200 --> 1:33:17.760 put you know, live deer in the back of a 1:33:18.479 --> 1:33:21.120 truck and you drive them around the country swapping genetics, 1:33:21.120 --> 1:33:24.519 you're moving disease, and so I would are. And also 1:33:24.600 --> 1:33:28.360 we have to understand that the aphists the Department of Agriculture, 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:31.640 you know, their herd Certification program, which is supposed to 1:33:31.720 --> 1:33:34.879 sort of give you a stamp good housekeeping seal of approval. 1:33:34.920 --> 1:33:37.520 If you have a you're applying by a certain standards, 1:33:37.560 --> 1:33:40.880 you're CWD free and you're a good operator. It's been 1:33:40.920 --> 1:33:43.760 a joke. I mean, you know, the keeps popping up 1:33:43.760 --> 1:33:47.519 in the certified low risk herds and it gives I 1:33:47.560 --> 1:33:50.160 think producers, you know, a false sense of security. It 1:33:50.160 --> 1:33:53.439 gives regulators false sense of security. So what I would 1:33:53.479 --> 1:33:56.200 recommend is that there'd be a moratorium and any sort 1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:59.720 of interstate movement alive dear period until we can get 1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:02.439 a decent heard certification program out there that we know 1:34:02.479 --> 1:34:05.760 actually works. I don't trust the Department Agriculture to do that. 1:34:06.040 --> 1:34:08.720 You need some sort of third party national Academy and 1:34:08.760 --> 1:34:11.040 Science is something like that to look at it and 1:34:11.080 --> 1:34:13.720 make some recommendations as to how that can be reformed 1:34:14.439 --> 1:34:17.280 so that this industry is part of solution, not part 1:34:17.320 --> 1:34:21.120 of the problem. Now, what's this already in a wild 1:34:21.200 --> 1:34:26.360 herd like like it is widespread across North America? Does 1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:29.559 that not even though we know it came from this 1:34:29.640 --> 1:34:32.679 captive wildlife? Does that not? Listen, hunters have an issue 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:34.880 problem here too. I mean, you know, and I think 1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:36.439 you're bood of seeing a lot of the states have 1:34:36.520 --> 1:34:39.400 put in you know, these prohibitions and moving carcasses across 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:42.120 state lines, and that's a good step. Yeah, Yanni, you 1:34:42.160 --> 1:34:44.800 did that video for us last year and show people 1:34:44.800 --> 1:34:46.360 how they can bone out a deer. It's still on 1:34:46.400 --> 1:34:49.439 our website. Yeah, so that you have the tools, you 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:51.800 know too, if you're a hunter to not be part 1:34:51.800 --> 1:34:55.000 of that problem. You can have your deer tested. Um. 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:57.800 You know. But you know, especially during the pandemic and 1:34:57.840 --> 1:35:00.080 the government you know sort of you know fund in 1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:02.800 crisis that state and local garments had been under, you've 1:35:02.840 --> 1:35:06.800 seen a real decrease in testing and surveillance at the 1:35:06.800 --> 1:35:10.200 state level, and you know, every single state agency has 1:35:10.240 --> 1:35:12.160 got a hiring freeze on. You know, they had to 1:35:12.200 --> 1:35:16.280 redeploy resources to other areas. You know, things like surveillance 1:35:16.320 --> 1:35:19.120 and testing, you know, have become a lower priority. So 1:35:19.400 --> 1:35:21.439 you're not hearing about as much right now because there's 1:35:21.479 --> 1:35:23.519 less testing going on than there has been in the past. 1:35:24.520 --> 1:35:27.000 So you know, yeah, we need to do more surveillance 1:35:27.040 --> 1:35:30.000 and testing. We hunters have responsibility to be and if 1:35:30.040 --> 1:35:32.439 state agency says, hey, go out and shoot a bunch 1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:35.200 of animals in this area and knocked the population down, 1:35:35.400 --> 1:35:37.680 do it I mean they're trying to make sure that 1:35:37.720 --> 1:35:40.679 you have your good hunting for years to come. Stay 1:35:40.760 --> 1:35:44.200 like Illinois, which took it seriously and hunters were part 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:46.519 of solution and went out and they whacked a lot 1:35:46.600 --> 1:35:48.400 of deer in areas where it came in. They kept 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:52.080 at background levels, whereas Wisconsin didn't take that approach, and 1:35:52.120 --> 1:35:55.639 it's fift prevalence in a bunch of the state. Yeah, 1:35:55.720 --> 1:35:58.719 I can't believe that now. Man like uh Doug Dern, 1:35:58.800 --> 1:36:01.479 he talks about areas on there were guys on certain 1:36:01.520 --> 1:36:04.200 farms that he knows about where they're you know, they're 1:36:04.240 --> 1:36:06.439 getting their dear tests that there that their families are 1:36:06.520 --> 1:36:08.360 hunting on their farms and they're running some of these 1:36:08.360 --> 1:36:12.160 guys seventy of the deer their families are getting our 1:36:12.200 --> 1:36:18.519 CW depositive. Yeah, I mean, it's Wisconsin's ground. It's ground zero, man, 1:36:18.880 --> 1:36:22.680 ground zero. Absolutely, It's like the few, the future is. 1:36:22.760 --> 1:36:27.080 The future is now in that place, man, yep. And 1:36:27.160 --> 1:36:29.520 no no other state out there wants to be like Wisconsin. 1:36:29.760 --> 1:36:32.320 So give them the resources. You know they can't that 1:36:32.360 --> 1:36:35.559 they need to not be that state. All right, Let's 1:36:35.800 --> 1:36:39.320 let's let's end on a win. Um with. Tell people 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:44.000 to Manhattan men Haydan Manhattan man Hayden. It's also called 1:36:44.520 --> 1:36:47.560 bunker or pogy depending on where you are, especially the 1:36:47.560 --> 1:36:50.800 bottom of the food chain. Uh. In the Atlantic and 1:36:50.840 --> 1:36:53.759 the Gulf of Mexico, everything eats you know, striped bass, 1:36:53.840 --> 1:36:57.880 you know, red fish, eagles, whales, I mean, you name it. 1:36:57.920 --> 1:37:02.960 They eat it because it's a nasty, little oily ish Uh, 1:37:03.360 --> 1:37:05.320 it looks like it. Maybe a shad is probably the 1:37:05.360 --> 1:37:10.200 closest thing I think about. Oh, you know they the 1:37:10.280 --> 1:37:15.240 big one will be like fourteen inches long, some fifteen yeah, yeah. 1:37:15.240 --> 1:37:18.000 And they're filter feeders, so they have an environmental function too. 1:37:18.080 --> 1:37:19.599 So in a place like the chest Week Bay which 1:37:19.600 --> 1:37:22.920 has chronic water quality problems and as a breeding ground 1:37:22.920 --> 1:37:25.320 for man haitan, I mean more manhitan, you having there, 1:37:25.320 --> 1:37:27.640 the better water quality you're gonna have. Yeah, same thing 1:37:27.720 --> 1:37:31.080 with oysters. But anyway, we have, you know, never done 1:37:31.080 --> 1:37:33.280 a good job managing forage fish, the base of the 1:37:33.280 --> 1:37:35.679 food chain. We manage them like we've done everything else, 1:37:36.120 --> 1:37:38.679 which is, you know how many fish can you kill 1:37:38.800 --> 1:37:42.519 before you crash the species? Instead of what does the 1:37:42.560 --> 1:37:45.240 ecosystem need? And based on that, you know, how many 1:37:45.280 --> 1:37:48.160 fish should can you kill them? And when I say, 1:37:48.280 --> 1:37:50.120 you know, it's not like everybody get out there killing them. 1:37:50.120 --> 1:37:52.439 There is one industry on the East Coast, and that's 1:37:52.640 --> 1:37:56.400 place called Omega Protein that catches these things and giant 1:37:56.439 --> 1:38:00.840 purse sayings, grinds them up, turns them into basically fish 1:38:00.880 --> 1:38:06.280 food for aquaculture salmon, you know in Canada. Huh so yeah, 1:38:06.320 --> 1:38:10.560 so anyway they're using those fish to feed farm fish. 1:38:10.840 --> 1:38:13.280 Oh yeah, yeah, so I thought there was I thought 1:38:13.280 --> 1:38:15.760 there was a pet food component to this. Yeah, there 1:38:15.840 --> 1:38:18.280 might be. Yeah, but that's the reason that Cook You 1:38:18.400 --> 1:38:21.920 Cook Industries bought Omega Protein. Cook is the big aquaculture 1:38:21.960 --> 1:38:25.240 operation up there, and obviously it's part of vertical integration. 1:38:25.360 --> 1:38:28.200 So if you buy, you know, the company that makes 1:38:28.240 --> 1:38:31.920 your food, you're gonna be more profitable. So so what 1:38:32.000 --> 1:38:34.160 we finally got to do is, you know, the Atlanta 1:38:34.200 --> 1:38:38.639 States Marine Fisheries Commission, which regulates basically the non federal 1:38:38.720 --> 1:38:41.479 waters in anything three miles and in up and down 1:38:41.479 --> 1:38:44.679 the East Coast for migratory fish including men haden, striped bass, 1:38:44.680 --> 1:38:48.280 blue fish, weak fish. You know, they finally changed the 1:38:48.280 --> 1:38:51.599 way you know, they manage it to move from single 1:38:51.640 --> 1:38:55.599 species management ecosystem management, and they adopted that unanimously this summer, 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:59.040 and then in the fall they came together and you know, 1:38:59.120 --> 1:39:01.120 basically did the first catch Lin's based on the new 1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:04.559 model and reduced the man haden harvest by ten Now, 1:39:04.600 --> 1:39:06.599 their science show that should have been reduced by eighteen, 1:39:07.479 --> 1:39:09.679 but at least ten percent to step in the right direction. 1:39:10.320 --> 1:39:12.720 So I say that's a win because you've had a 1:39:12.920 --> 1:39:15.439 basically a fundamental sea change of how we managed the 1:39:15.479 --> 1:39:18.639 bottom of the food chain, which helps every predator out there. 1:39:20.520 --> 1:39:23.760 Uh well, that ten percent allow the fish to start 1:39:23.760 --> 1:39:26.639 to recover your thing. Oh yeah, and we're already seeing 1:39:26.640 --> 1:39:29.639 they had a reduction a few years ago. We're already 1:39:29.680 --> 1:39:32.599 seeing more menhdan out there we have before me. I've 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:34.519 got a guy who works for us, you know, in 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:37.120 Long Island, and he was saying there, at some points 1:39:37.120 --> 1:39:39.559 this summer there were schools that ran basically from Montalk 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:41.760 all the way down to Fire Island, And for those 1:39:41.800 --> 1:39:43.800 of these who are familiar Long Island geography, that's a 1:39:43.800 --> 1:39:46.600 long way. And you had everything in their feeding on 1:39:46.600 --> 1:39:50.320 the whales, blue fin, tuna, you know, stripe, bask galore. 1:39:51.080 --> 1:39:53.200 And so we're already see starting to see him come back. 1:39:53.560 --> 1:39:56.320 And but they're saying right now that the current Manhaden 1:39:56.360 --> 1:40:00.559 harvest reduced the stripe bass populations by about that's right. 1:40:00.600 --> 1:40:02.680 Bass is the number one recreational you know fish in 1:40:02.720 --> 1:40:06.960 the country salt water. And there's gonna be some science 1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:08.600 coming out of the Gulf of Mexico where we have 1:40:08.720 --> 1:40:12.360 even a bigger industry. Menhadan industry and two players, you know, 1:40:12.439 --> 1:40:15.559 Daybrook is the South African company, and Cook which is 1:40:15.560 --> 1:40:18.640 the Canadian company. And the resource is going to come 1:40:18.640 --> 1:40:20.559 out of the University of Florida. It's already out there 1:40:20.600 --> 1:40:23.240 in draft is showing that there's about a fifty percent 1:40:23.360 --> 1:40:27.800 production in you know, redfish and sea trout due to 1:40:27.880 --> 1:40:31.639 the current Manhaden harvest down there. There's also some meaning 1:40:31.760 --> 1:40:37.080 meaning that there's these researchers are saying that the due 1:40:37.080 --> 1:40:43.640 to this Manhaydan harvest. Yeah, they're seeing a like in 1:40:43.680 --> 1:40:47.200 our own lifetimes. Oh yeah, no there, if you didn't 1:40:47.200 --> 1:40:52.639 have that harvest, you'd have more redfish and sea trout 1:40:52.680 --> 1:40:56.880 than you do now. And this industry is growing substantially. 1:40:56.880 --> 1:41:00.000 They're planning on growing another fift pent and there's anecdote 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:02.920 of information out there too. That tarpen or directly impacted 1:41:02.920 --> 1:41:05.640 by this harvest too, because tarpin will follow them at 1:41:05.640 --> 1:41:10.040 hayding around. That's a that's a tasty meal for a tarpan. Huh. 1:41:10.280 --> 1:41:15.120 So these guys, these these commercial harvesters, like these industrial harvesters, 1:41:15.160 --> 1:41:20.639 they might be um seeing some reductions in their harvest 1:41:20.720 --> 1:41:23.800 quotas coming up in the Gulf too, maybe, But the 1:41:23.840 --> 1:41:26.000 Gulf is a while west out there. You know, it 1:41:26.160 --> 1:41:29.320 is a bigger industry. You've got two players. There are 1:41:29.320 --> 1:41:31.720 no catch limits in place. There's a voluntary agreement. There 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:34.919 are no hard catch limits in place. Unlike in the Atlantic, 1:41:34.920 --> 1:41:38.280 where the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission actually has legislative 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:42.320 authority to manage it, Golf States Marine Fisheries Commission doesn't. 1:41:42.800 --> 1:41:45.439 So there's not even a mechanism right now for them 1:41:45.479 --> 1:41:50.040 to reduce harvests and mandate mandated. Another issue is the 1:41:50.560 --> 1:41:53.280 pogey boats in the Gulf. Yeah, there are more and 1:41:53.320 --> 1:41:57.000 more conflicts with recreational anglers because they will come right 1:41:57.040 --> 1:42:00.000 in on the you know, the beaches and catching them. 1:42:00.000 --> 1:42:02.120 It doesn't matter if you're in there, catch you fishing 1:42:02.160 --> 1:42:04.000 for them. They will come in there and push you 1:42:04.080 --> 1:42:06.679 off and you know, hit that school, and they're also 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:08.920 tearing up a lot of the barrier islands we've been 1:42:08.920 --> 1:42:13.000 working on restoring down there after Katrina, So they're causing 1:42:13.080 --> 1:42:16.880 environmental damage there. You know, direct conflicts, recreational anglers, and 1:42:17.960 --> 1:42:21.920 there's the direct conflict, the direct impacts on sport fish 1:42:21.920 --> 1:42:26.360 throughout the Gulf. This was in the wind column. Well, 1:42:26.360 --> 1:42:30.439 the Atlantic is in the Gulf. Were haven't even gotten 1:42:30.479 --> 1:42:32.639 started there. I mean, that's gonna be the next frontier. 1:42:32.680 --> 1:42:34.599 We're gonna get engaged. We're gonna go down there. We're 1:42:34.600 --> 1:42:37.280 gonna try to get common sense regulations and listen, you 1:42:37.360 --> 1:42:40.080 can still have a big reduction industry down there. It 1:42:40.200 --> 1:42:44.120 is a really fertile you know, Gulf of Mexico and 1:42:44.439 --> 1:42:47.479 you can eat, but you ought to stop the industry 1:42:47.479 --> 1:42:49.320 where it is now at a minimum. Don't let it 1:42:49.360 --> 1:42:52.320 grow another fift you know, push him off the beaches 1:42:52.360 --> 1:42:55.960 where we have all the conflicts and recreational anglers. So 1:42:56.080 --> 1:42:58.559 there are things you can do that, honestly, I think 1:42:58.560 --> 1:43:01.120 in the end would work for everybody. But you know, 1:43:01.160 --> 1:43:03.680 the status quo is not sustainable long term. So it's 1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:06.519 like when part one. Yeah, so like at the end, 1:43:06.520 --> 1:43:08.400 of the first Star Wars. They blow up the thing, 1:43:08.479 --> 1:43:09.960 but then all of a sudden, you got the Empire 1:43:10.000 --> 1:43:14.720 strikes back. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Coincidentally, I just 1:43:14.760 --> 1:43:18.000 got an email with like a half dozen beautiful pictures 1:43:18.080 --> 1:43:20.639 of a humpback feeding on men Hayden off a cape 1:43:20.680 --> 1:43:24.600 lookout in North Carolina. This is a I'm no fish bologist, 1:43:24.600 --> 1:43:26.000 but I was gonna say it sounds to me like 1:43:26.040 --> 1:43:30.679 the whales are part of the problem here. Oh honestly, 1:43:30.960 --> 1:43:33.240 people care, I mean, the general public and large care 1:43:33.280 --> 1:43:35.040 is a lot more about the whales. They do about right, 1:43:35.920 --> 1:43:40.240 So there there there are of It sounds to me 1:43:40.360 --> 1:43:44.719 like we need less whales. We want more man Hayden, 1:43:44.800 --> 1:43:47.760 we want more whales. Okay, I got it backwards, I 1:43:47.800 --> 1:43:51.439 got I understand that. All right, Well, what one last thing? 1:43:51.439 --> 1:43:53.160 We got time for one last thing? Yeah? Can you 1:43:53.240 --> 1:43:56.960 can you? Uh all right? Are you ready to I 1:43:56.960 --> 1:43:59.120 thought you forgot all about my book report? No, man, 1:43:59.160 --> 1:44:01.160 what we gotta here? Yeah? His book report? Man, he 1:44:01.200 --> 1:44:04.479 threw mine into the first and I was just like, jump, well, 1:44:04.520 --> 1:44:10.200 because we're trying to um it's hard to explain. I 1:44:10.240 --> 1:44:13.639 didn't know how long we need for wit we got 1:44:13.720 --> 1:44:17.320 Joanni's gonna Johnny's gonna redeem this sec Well, here's the thing. 1:44:18.080 --> 1:44:19.680 Here's the thing is, I didn't know how long I 1:44:19.720 --> 1:44:22.360 was gonna take for wit we got through the list. 1:44:23.280 --> 1:44:29.960 I had wrote a scathing email to Yanni about his 1:44:30.120 --> 1:44:33.639 not telling me whether or not he was prepared to deliver, 1:44:35.360 --> 1:44:37.160 and so then for me to not get to it 1:44:37.280 --> 1:44:39.360 would lead him to think that he could do a 1:44:39.400 --> 1:44:42.280 bad job and not even get caught. You know, I've 1:44:42.320 --> 1:44:45.679 actually got two of them stacked up that we've talked 1:44:45.680 --> 1:44:48.080 about doing prior and haven't gotten to him. So we 1:44:48.080 --> 1:44:51.040 we have some already ready for the next time. It's 1:44:51.080 --> 1:44:53.400 chef's choice. So you can do whatever a little, you 1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:55.840 can do whatever book report you want. Well, now I'm 1:44:55.880 --> 1:44:57.559 gonna do the one that I worked on today because 1:44:57.640 --> 1:45:10.840 it's fresh in my head for sure. Report all right, 1:45:11.280 --> 1:45:17.080 this story. Interestingly, I think to me, when I pulled 1:45:17.160 --> 1:45:20.120 up the map that was associated with this story, I 1:45:20.120 --> 1:45:25.479 immediately saw I'm like, yeah, that's why that's why I 1:45:25.479 --> 1:45:27.680 thought you'd be good at this, because it's like a 1:45:27.680 --> 1:45:32.320 little bit close to home. Yeah, totally, no little if 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:35.799 if If regal Avia, so you know where because everybody 1:45:35.800 --> 1:45:38.759 knows where regal Avia is. If that was the center 1:45:38.760 --> 1:45:44.960 of the clock, this story takes place about um, five 1:45:45.479 --> 1:45:50.680 miles northwest, no, sorry, seven miles northwest ten o'clock from 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:53.720 the Senate from the center of the clock. Um. In 1:45:53.760 --> 1:45:56.639 my opinion, it's a high likelihood that I probably share 1:45:56.680 --> 1:45:58.960 blood with some of the same hunters that left these 1:45:59.080 --> 1:46:03.880 artifacts I'm gonna talk about in this story. UM. Yeah, 1:46:03.880 --> 1:46:05.600 I might as well be doing a biography of my 1:46:05.640 --> 1:46:12.880 family here. I wrote that today. Um yeah. It's like 1:46:12.920 --> 1:46:17.240 I'm your new Eastern Northern European correspondent here for Meat Eater, 1:46:17.600 --> 1:46:19.720 So you have to keep coming up with stories that 1:46:19.760 --> 1:46:22.240 I can do reports on from the zone of the world. 1:46:22.920 --> 1:46:25.679 All right. The it's a net Geo article titled six 1:46:25.720 --> 1:46:30.639 thousand years of arrows emerge from melting Norwegian ice patch. 1:46:31.360 --> 1:46:36.920 Love it? Yeah, interesting enough. Um. The first artifact that 1:46:36.960 --> 1:46:40.160 was found here was a three thousand, three hundred year 1:46:40.200 --> 1:46:44.080 old shoe that was found in two thousand six. That's 1:46:44.120 --> 1:46:48.960 kind of what tipped everybody off to like ice patch archaeology, right, Like, 1:46:49.080 --> 1:46:51.479 wasn't a thing I guess up until then, Right, and 1:46:51.560 --> 1:46:54.000 somebody finds a shoe sticking out of this ice patch 1:46:54.240 --> 1:46:56.080 and they start paying attention, and they also start paying 1:46:56.120 --> 1:46:58.559 attention to ice patches all across the world because stuff 1:46:58.560 --> 1:47:01.120 that's been buried under this ice is now like because 1:47:01.120 --> 1:47:03.880 it's all melting at a pretty alarming rate. Everybody always 1:47:03.880 --> 1:47:07.679 says alarming rate. Yeah, I don't know if it's alarming 1:47:07.760 --> 1:47:09.400 or not. I mean, if you look back at history, 1:47:09.520 --> 1:47:12.439 there's been a lot of melts and freeze and thoughts. 1:47:12.720 --> 1:47:15.400 What is alarming, I'll point out, is that it might 1:47:15.439 --> 1:47:19.320 not be good for us to live on this planet 1:47:19.640 --> 1:47:23.920 if it containues down this path. Right. People always say, oh, 1:47:23.960 --> 1:47:26.880 poor mother Earth. I don't, I don't. I don't pity 1:47:26.920 --> 1:47:28.839 her at all. I think she can shrug her shoulders 1:47:29.120 --> 1:47:31.080 get rid of us, and she'll keep on spinning around 1:47:31.080 --> 1:47:33.519 the sun for quite some time. Um, it just might 1:47:33.560 --> 1:47:35.640 not work out so good for us. Hey, can you 1:47:36.280 --> 1:47:41.040 clarify that these aren't glaciers. I was just gonna point 1:47:41.080 --> 1:47:43.879 out that an ice patch is different from a glacier, 1:47:43.920 --> 1:47:48.120 which is basically a slow moving river of frozen ice. 1:47:48.280 --> 1:47:52.479 That's a glacier and ice ice patch is just a 1:47:52.560 --> 1:47:58.960 deposit of water which then freezes and forms, and it 1:47:59.040 --> 1:48:02.559 can grow bigger and smaller you know, depending on what 1:48:02.600 --> 1:48:05.320 average temperatures are doing. I didn't know that, but it 1:48:05.360 --> 1:48:08.920 doesn't move. Yeah, it sounds like normal ice to me. 1:48:09.200 --> 1:48:12.840 What was the shoe that came out of it? What 1:48:12.880 --> 1:48:19.160 was the man? There? Weren't any details about that shoe, um, 1:48:19.200 --> 1:48:21.639 but a couple of interesting things that they I mean, 1:48:21.680 --> 1:48:24.360 obviously we're interested in it more because of like these 1:48:24.720 --> 1:48:27.240 I think there was a total sixties some arrows that 1:48:27.320 --> 1:48:31.960 popped out of here, right, And they figured that at 1:48:32.000 --> 1:48:34.960 time they could look kind of because from radio carbon dating, 1:48:35.000 --> 1:48:38.160 so they could like date each arrow and they can say, oh, this, 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:41.120 these ten arrows were here from two thousand years ago, 1:48:41.200 --> 1:48:44.160 and then these fifteen were from six thousand years ago, 1:48:44.240 --> 1:48:47.360 and they can radio carbon date the antlers and bones 1:48:47.360 --> 1:48:49.080 and other things that they found at this ice patch 1:48:49.120 --> 1:48:51.240 and sort of figure out how, you know, when the 1:48:51.320 --> 1:48:54.920 hunters were there, you know, how much they were dealing 1:48:54.960 --> 1:48:57.760 with or what were they doing with the animals, because 1:48:57.760 --> 1:49:00.839 they found times where there was a whole bunch of bones, 1:49:02.160 --> 1:49:05.439 uh and arrows, right, indicating that sort of like they're 1:49:05.479 --> 1:49:08.200 they're hunting, and they're there and they're killing stuff, right. 1:49:08.240 --> 1:49:10.160 But there's other times there's a whole bunch of bones 1:49:10.640 --> 1:49:14.840 but no arrows. And I don't know, this seems kind 1:49:14.840 --> 1:49:16.800 of a stretch and I don't know if it's the 1:49:16.800 --> 1:49:23.000 researchers is doing this assuming, but they're saying that, well, 1:49:23.120 --> 1:49:25.280 just at that time, it was just wolverines killing all 1:49:25.320 --> 1:49:28.519 these rain beer and stashing them, huh, which they do. 1:49:29.000 --> 1:49:30.559 It seems like there had to be a lot of 1:49:30.560 --> 1:49:34.599 wolverines right around there doing this in the same spot. Yeah, 1:49:34.680 --> 1:49:36.720 same spot, which I want to get to about the 1:49:36.760 --> 1:49:40.360 spot and ask you guys a question here in a second. 1:49:40.439 --> 1:49:43.120 But there's other times where the inverse was there, right, 1:49:43.240 --> 1:49:45.840 like a lot of arrows but no bones. And they 1:49:45.880 --> 1:49:49.639 just figured that at that time the humans were taking 1:49:49.840 --> 1:49:52.439 like literally using more of the animal or using all 1:49:52.479 --> 1:49:54.560 of it and taking it off the mountain where this 1:49:54.640 --> 1:49:57.559 because this ice patches at high elevation, right, so instead 1:49:57.560 --> 1:50:01.480 of maybe just taking some meat, that actually making bones antlers, 1:50:01.560 --> 1:50:04.680 and for for whatever reason, they were going to use 1:50:04.680 --> 1:50:08.080 it for you know, making things, trading, whatever it might be. 1:50:09.200 --> 1:50:13.960 But he also makes the assumption that because they found 1:50:14.040 --> 1:50:17.120 like a point that was made out of iron, there 1:50:17.160 --> 1:50:19.879 was a point that was made out of a sharpened 1:50:19.920 --> 1:50:22.640 muscle shell from a river like fifty miles away and 1:50:22.640 --> 1:50:25.000 then there was a stone point there. So the guy says, well, 1:50:25.280 --> 1:50:30.080 even though there uh technology changed, they still kept their 1:50:30.120 --> 1:50:34.519 same hunting techniques. And I'm like, yeah, and he's just 1:50:34.520 --> 1:50:38.160 saying technique as in because it's all in the same spot, right, 1:50:38.600 --> 1:50:40.760 And I don't think that that's necessarily like a technique. 1:50:40.760 --> 1:50:44.080 They were like hunting a zone that had animals, right, 1:50:44.680 --> 1:50:47.600 but like they're just returning to the same spot. It's like, 1:50:47.640 --> 1:50:50.360 I don't look at that as the same technique you're 1:50:50.400 --> 1:50:53.559 talking about that they were using archery equipment though, I mean, 1:50:53.680 --> 1:50:56.920 was that what he was referring to. They could have 1:50:57.120 --> 1:51:02.879 used something different maybe. Yeah, he said that honing techniques 1:51:02.880 --> 1:51:05.439 stayed the same even as the weapons that used evolved 1:51:05.479 --> 1:51:08.920 from stone and rivershell arrowheads to iron points. Yeah. I 1:51:08.920 --> 1:51:10.960 think that's him saying they just showed back up in 1:51:10.960 --> 1:51:14.400 the same spot year after over hundreds of year. Well, 1:51:14.439 --> 1:51:17.599 here's my question to you guys, the whole old site 1:51:17.600 --> 1:51:25.280 of it. If you were shooting old delta points, you 1:51:25.360 --> 1:51:27.439 go upen on a spot and you're shooting old delta points, 1:51:28.120 --> 1:51:31.280 then all of a sudden, like razorbacks come out and 1:51:31.320 --> 1:51:34.479 you start shooting razorbacks up in that same spot. Then 1:51:34.520 --> 1:51:37.559 a while later, mechanicals come out and you start shooting 1:51:37.560 --> 1:51:41.000 mechanicals up in that spot. And then like single bevels 1:51:41.000 --> 1:51:45.800 come out and you start shooting those up in that spot. Uh. 1:51:46.520 --> 1:51:49.559 I think that you could safely say that this dude's 1:51:49.600 --> 1:51:52.920 technique stayed the same, but his his ship kept changing around, 1:51:54.439 --> 1:52:00.479 his tools just changed. Okay, I don't know, all right, 1:52:00.680 --> 1:52:08.960 I'll take now why uh? Why do you think it's 1:52:09.000 --> 1:52:13.320 an ice patch on top of a mountain right in Norway? 1:52:13.400 --> 1:52:15.840 Like I'm going to cut you off of the gap. 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:20.040 He had a food plot there? Well? What But that 1:52:20.160 --> 1:52:25.680 is the question why there? Why they're what drew the 1:52:25.720 --> 1:52:31.760 animals there? Do you know the answer? Yes? The saddle saddle? No? No, 1:52:32.000 --> 1:52:34.000 if there's ice there, there was water. There's a water 1:52:34.040 --> 1:52:39.720 hole when the climate was much dryer. Maybe any other 1:52:39.760 --> 1:52:46.400 gases us pass. I'll give you. I'll give you a tip. 1:52:46.800 --> 1:52:53.320 They were always hunting there in the summer calving area. Maybe, 1:52:53.520 --> 1:52:55.559 but that's not what this article said. Not at the 1:52:55.560 --> 1:53:00.280 research said oh they're avoiding bugs, yes, get away from there, 1:53:03.880 --> 1:53:07.640 and that we don't really get to apply that ambush 1:53:07.840 --> 1:53:13.080 speculative man oh, come on, they do. Now we know 1:53:13.200 --> 1:53:15.760 that you can in the summertime, you can go anywhere, 1:53:15.800 --> 1:53:18.680 and you know the high Arctic, and that's where you 1:53:18.720 --> 1:53:22.479 find them. We talk about that's what the dudes were 1:53:22.680 --> 1:53:24.880 I thought you meant that's what the dudes were doing. No, 1:53:26.640 --> 1:53:28.479 I totally agree, because when you go out in the 1:53:28.560 --> 1:53:31.240 in the mountains, the caribou in August are always laying 1:53:31.320 --> 1:53:32.799 up in a snow pile on top of a mountain. 1:53:33.439 --> 1:53:39.880 Mm hmm, okay, I mean they literally are laying in 1:53:40.000 --> 1:53:44.599 snow patches on the north side of peaks. I totally 1:53:44.600 --> 1:53:48.160 buy that this is a good book report. I was 1:53:48.160 --> 1:53:50.080 gonna give a bad grade when he kind of messed 1:53:50.160 --> 1:53:54.599 up that technique's part, But I don't know. I think 1:53:54.600 --> 1:53:56.760 you should read the story and decide for yourself, because 1:53:56.760 --> 1:53:58.080 I think he was kind of leading me to the 1:53:58.160 --> 1:54:01.320 wrong way. Um. So that's kind of the interesting stuff 1:54:01.320 --> 1:54:05.160 about the hunting. What the researchers sort of like their 1:54:05.200 --> 1:54:08.479 big takeaway, and that the takeaway from this article is 1:54:08.479 --> 1:54:11.160 that they're hoping that the ice patch would be like 1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:15.120 this perfect time machine, right where if something was like 1:54:15.160 --> 1:54:19.400 the last the thing that was the oldest, everybody thought 1:54:19.479 --> 1:54:22.679 would be buried the deepest or be at the center 1:54:22.680 --> 1:54:25.360 and most part of this ice patch, right, and then 1:54:25.439 --> 1:54:27.920 things that later in time would come in there would 1:54:27.920 --> 1:54:30.840 be sort of sort of the outer ends. But after 1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:34.200 this discovering them being a radio carbon date sixty plus arrows, 1:54:35.040 --> 1:54:40.120 they're finding out that's completely not not the case. And 1:54:40.120 --> 1:54:43.560 they're just guessing that underneath the surface because of melting 1:54:44.240 --> 1:54:48.000 and movement, that uh, it could be like like that 1:54:48.080 --> 1:54:50.440 the water melted a little bit and then and then 1:54:50.560 --> 1:54:54.040 a you know, little river, a little stream carried an 1:54:54.160 --> 1:54:59.520 arrow to yeah, and it's also getting torn up and mangled. 1:55:00.000 --> 1:55:02.040 And then if it's let's say, something like a light 1:55:02.240 --> 1:55:04.640 arrow shaft all of a sudden appeared on the surface, 1:55:05.000 --> 1:55:07.280 the wind could very easily blow it to the edge, 1:55:07.320 --> 1:55:10.360 right or blow it right off of it. Full jackets, 1:55:10.440 --> 1:55:13.080 full metal jackets are on the bottom. Yeah, they were 1:55:13.120 --> 1:55:17.280 expecting like a layer cake of arrow technology exactly what 1:55:17.720 --> 1:55:20.840 Just like alogists digging in the dirt, right, you're gonna 1:55:20.880 --> 1:55:23.560 expect the oldest stuff to be towards the bottom. How big? 1:55:24.400 --> 1:55:30.480 How big is this uh ice patch? Uh? Sixty acres? 1:55:30.680 --> 1:55:35.280 I believe I have a great way to visualize that 1:55:35.360 --> 1:55:39.520 because I grew up on a sixty acre lake, so 1:55:39.560 --> 1:55:41.400 it's just about the size. Just for you people at 1:55:41.400 --> 1:55:43.160 home listening, it's about the size of the lake where 1:55:43.160 --> 1:55:46.320 I grew up. I bet they'll find a bunch of 1:55:46.320 --> 1:55:51.240 your stuff there one day. You ought to drop a 1:55:51.400 --> 1:55:54.760 signed copy of the Wilderness Skills and Survival Book down 1:55:54.760 --> 1:55:57.800 there and like a ziplock bag. I'll tell you what, Man, 1:55:57.840 --> 1:55:59.720 there's a lot they will there's a lot of my stuff, 1:55:59.760 --> 1:56:03.440 like the bottle at Lake man Um. I'll close with 1:56:03.480 --> 1:56:07.200 this to them. It is melting at an alarming rate. 1:56:07.600 --> 1:56:09.920 Not so much because I don't think they're worried about 1:56:09.960 --> 1:56:13.360 the uh, you know, the planet melting and blowing up 1:56:13.440 --> 1:56:16.800 or whatever, but because they know that they only have 1:56:17.240 --> 1:56:21.200 today's technology and today's techniques to figure out what they're 1:56:21.240 --> 1:56:23.680 seeing and what to do with it, and it's all 1:56:23.680 --> 1:56:25.680 coming at them very rapidly, and they're just hoping that 1:56:25.720 --> 1:56:27.800 they can do the best they can, you know, in 1:56:27.840 --> 1:56:30.000 the moment. Yeah, I want to I want to throw 1:56:30.000 --> 1:56:37.760 a little archaeological archaeology anthropology tidbitten here. Um our, Our 1:56:37.840 --> 1:56:41.360 understandings and technologies change all the time, and there's this 1:56:41.400 --> 1:56:46.560 thing in modern day archaeology where they'll find some big camp. Right, 1:56:46.720 --> 1:56:50.800 Let's say this camp is, you know, an acre in size. 1:56:51.880 --> 1:56:54.480 They would be like, you know, you're tempted to go 1:56:54.480 --> 1:56:56.320 and dig the whole thing up right, see what it 1:56:56.440 --> 1:56:59.560 all is in there. But they're like, they know that 1:56:59.640 --> 1:57:02.520 just in ten years time, twenty years time, our questions 1:57:02.520 --> 1:57:04.560 are going to be different, our methods are going to 1:57:04.640 --> 1:57:07.640 be different. So they'll take a little chunk and do 1:57:07.680 --> 1:57:12.880 a little chunk now, knowing that they're leaving tons for 1:57:13.000 --> 1:57:18.120 future generations to go in and do what they need 1:57:18.120 --> 1:57:21.960 to do with it. The Folsom site which I talked 1:57:22.000 --> 1:57:24.400 about all the time, when they first dug the Folsom site, 1:57:24.400 --> 1:57:27.160 which is the ice Age kill site where some hunters 1:57:27.920 --> 1:57:31.760 killed some ice h bison. When they went in there first, 1:57:31.800 --> 1:57:35.120 they just wanted to find big bones and big projectile points, 1:57:35.560 --> 1:57:39.200 and they dug the whole damn thing. Later, when people 1:57:39.200 --> 1:57:42.200 started realizing that you could look at pollen counts to 1:57:42.240 --> 1:57:44.920 figure out what the climate was like, and that there 1:57:44.960 --> 1:57:47.560 was all these other food items to search for, and 1:57:47.560 --> 1:57:51.040 that you could you know, pursue all these different avenues 1:57:51.040 --> 1:57:54.960 of discovery, they had to go to those people's debris pile, 1:57:56.600 --> 1:57:59.120 so they had to go dig through all the garbage 1:57:59.120 --> 1:58:02.120 at the first are geologists left behind to try to 1:58:02.160 --> 1:58:04.960 see what they could discover. And it was like, imagine 1:58:05.000 --> 1:58:07.640 if those guys had just taken a little chunk and 1:58:07.720 --> 1:58:10.520 took a look, and then a hundred years later, other 1:58:10.640 --> 1:58:12.560 dudes they had a way different idea about how to 1:58:12.600 --> 1:58:17.480 go about it, had their little chunk to share. Um. 1:58:17.520 --> 1:58:22.080 So what these boys are saying is that, uh, that's 1:58:22.080 --> 1:58:27.000 not gonna work. It's all it's all happening right now. Yeah, 1:58:27.760 --> 1:58:32.000 coming coming right to the surface. Thank you Nie, you're olcome. 1:58:32.400 --> 1:58:37.160 That's a great little report. Uh and thank you with 1:58:37.520 --> 1:58:39.840 for coming on. Tell people how to find tr CP 1:58:41.160 --> 1:58:45.760 tr CP dot org, come on, love to have you involved. Yeah, Um, 1:58:46.120 --> 1:58:48.960 you can go in if you want to help tr CP. 1:58:49.920 --> 1:58:54.640 Tell them the tr CP slogan, the war cry guaranteeing 1:58:54.640 --> 1:58:57.640 all Americans quality places hunting fish. If you want to 1:58:57.640 --> 1:59:03.360 get on that train. You can make a donation to 1:59:03.440 --> 1:59:07.080 support TRCP, and there's other ways you can get involved. Um. 1:59:07.160 --> 1:59:10.760 So yeah, TRCP dot org. Find them, see what they're 1:59:10.760 --> 1:59:14.920 all about. You can find policy papers, um and kind 1:59:14.920 --> 1:59:17.560 of figure out where they stand on everything. Nothing happens 1:59:17.560 --> 1:59:22.240 in secret? Oh no, no, very transparent. Um, you can 1:59:22.320 --> 1:59:24.440 find it all out. You don't need to wonder what 1:59:24.480 --> 1:59:28.240 they really think about things, because it's just laid out 1:59:28.280 --> 1:59:32.280 there for you. It is public information. So thanks Witt, 1:59:32.680 --> 1:59:36.280 Thanks Brodi, jannest Clay take care of guys. Thanks guys, 1:59:36.520 --> 1:59:36.880 Thanks w