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Speaker 1: This is Me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case underwear listening podcast. You Can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the

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Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt

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Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play Store. Now where

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Speaker 1: you stand with on X All right here we are

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Speaker 1: half half remote, like half COVID remote and more than

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Speaker 1: half COVID remote two thirds COVID remote. I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that. In that um, Joannice and

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Speaker 1: Brody Henderson are in um Our studio. How's it feel

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Speaker 1: over there? Guys? Back to you great, wish you were here?

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Speaker 1: Ah am on Maybe I'm on my third I might

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Speaker 1: be on my third or fourth quarantine. I'm not totally sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting on Seth to get his latest result. Who

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Speaker 1: like he already had COVID now he's maybe got it again. Um,

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Speaker 1: all of his buddies got it, so there's a good

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Speaker 1: chance he does. Yeah. His theory, Seth feels like when

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Speaker 1: he had it, he didn't have it, but now he

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Speaker 1: has it. But I got twenty bucks riding on the

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Speaker 1: fact that he doesn't have it. But like he already

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Speaker 1: had it. You're bet in history hasn't gone so well lately?

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Speaker 1: Were you talking about? Man? I just one a thousand

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Speaker 1: bucks on pebble mind probably I lost two hundred on

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Speaker 1: the election, made a hundred on a different election related bet,

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Speaker 1: and then picked up with the thousand. I need to

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Speaker 1: forgive the thousand because it's with a family member and

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Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of money that like causes tensions.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna find a way to let her off.

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Speaker 1: But also joined by Clay Nucomb. Thanks Clay, who's who's remote,

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Speaker 1: not quarantined, but remote? And uh with Fosberg from tr

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Speaker 1: CP from the very functional, the very functional city of Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Where no one does anything weird. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: normalist can be What what's the general climate like in

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Speaker 1: d C? And not not? I don't mean like the weather,

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Speaker 1: but is you know, is it just like business as

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Speaker 1: usual or people scratching their heads or what? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: more or less business as usual. I mean we got

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Speaker 1: used to the unusual now, so you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff going on, and you know, people are

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Speaker 1: just sort of waiting for the latest mails from the past. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got you. Um, well, we'll talk a lot more

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Speaker 1: about dings and d C dings in a minute. But Clay,

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Speaker 1: I'm surprised you don't know. Clay recently did for us

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Speaker 1: a video, a wonderful video, um about how to make

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Speaker 1: Christmas ornaments with squirrel tails. Yeah, yeah, I think I

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Speaker 1: know where you're going with this. Well, first, I'm going

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Speaker 1: with the fact that you're a video making machine. Man.

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Speaker 1: It was you know, I'm pretty crafty too, so kind

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Speaker 1: of home mecky crafty claiming a video. It's out right,

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Speaker 1: like I saw that that's on It's on Meteor, Instagram, mete,

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Speaker 1: your website, Facebook, It's out there, man. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: viral man went viral plays. Play's got virality And by

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Speaker 1: that I don't mean covid. But um, I'm surprised you

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Speaker 1: don't know about tail slitters and tail strippers. I you

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Speaker 1: you will soon because that has bought you one of

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Speaker 1: each man. But well, hey, you know what, So Steve

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Speaker 1: texted me the other day and I knew he was

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Speaker 1: watching my video, and he said you not have a

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Speaker 1: tail stripper and almost texted you back that you were

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Speaker 1: like one of the Internet trolls, Like you know how

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Speaker 1: many people have asked me that troll on text? I'm

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Speaker 1: a text troll. Hey, you know what man, I grew

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Speaker 1: up using Listen, man, yes, I mean that's my tail strippers,

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Speaker 1: green sticks, two of them, to green sticks, but with

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Speaker 1: a squirrel tail. It was just easy enough to do

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Speaker 1: it with hand, you know, by hand. Well, I got

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Speaker 1: it what I thought for sure you would say when

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Speaker 1: I asked you if you had a tail slitter and

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Speaker 1: a tail stripper, I thought you would say, I do.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to discourage people from doing this

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Speaker 1: by making them think you needed fancy equipment. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: And listen, don't say that it was that. I'm that

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Speaker 1: it's trolling. It's a text trolling is when you do

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Speaker 1: it in a public format as a way to like

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Speaker 1: put people in their plates. I sent you a private

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Speaker 1: text okay, complete, you in your place, and then and

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Speaker 1: then turned around and ordered one for you as a gift.

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Speaker 1: That's that's pretty high level, high level thoughtful. He's saving

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Speaker 1: you from future trolling. Yeah, yeah, well it was it

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Speaker 1: was what you thought. The foresight that you thought that

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Speaker 1: I had to like make this do it yourself video.

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Speaker 1: It would have been cool if I would have thought that,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't think that. I just didn't have I

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Speaker 1: just didn't have the gear. Can you guys explain the

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Speaker 1: whole point of Yeah, okay, to understand a tail stripper,

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Speaker 1: take your middle finger and index finger and put them together, Okay,

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Speaker 1: like you're making the peace sign, but then sandwich your

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Speaker 1: fingers together. Now, imagine that right at your middle knuckle,

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Speaker 1: you were to drill a hole right where your fingers touch,

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Speaker 1: and then you were to take your fingers and clamp

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Speaker 1: them around the tailbone so that that little hole you

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Speaker 1: drilled was accommodating the tailbone. Then you grab that device

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Speaker 1: and pull and it strips the bone right out of

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Speaker 1: the tail. The tail slitting guide is like a long

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Speaker 1: sliver of metal with a with a groove in it,

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Speaker 1: and you insert that into the tail fox, coons, squirrel, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and then just run your knife down that groove and

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Speaker 1: it slits the tail open so you can dry it

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Speaker 1: out without having a bony spine inside. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: the tail slitter existed. I didn't know about the tail strippers,

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Speaker 1: but the tail slitter that is totally new to me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: or do you want to aluminum? Right? Uh? Quick note

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Speaker 1: on a Yanni, you'll like this. Um, Seth and I

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Speaker 1: were before he got uh got to thinking he had

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Speaker 1: COVID all over again. Um, we were squirrel hunting and

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Speaker 1: we've been we've embarked on a project that you'll probably

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Speaker 1: want to get involved in. Where we were, we had

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Speaker 1: some fox squirrels the side of the the house cats and

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Speaker 1: where you guys got a black face fox squirrel, which

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Speaker 1: is way cool. No, that was a great That was

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Speaker 1: a gray. That's a black face gray, even though it's huge.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a black face gray. I mean it

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Speaker 1: was equal to those fox squirrel. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: black face gray either way. Me, Seth, Matt, we're getting

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Speaker 1: um and we started our collection. We're all getting a

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Speaker 1: complete set of tanned squirrel hides, Eastern gray, black face

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Speaker 1: gray fox, and then on and on and on until

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Speaker 1: I have the full So we're gonna start flashing and

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Speaker 1: stretching those and we're each gonna have a collection. I

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Speaker 1: just got a couple of Montana fox squirrels last week.

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Speaker 1: That's one other. What's your plan for displaying those? Steve

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Speaker 1: hang him on a string, like, just let him drape.

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Speaker 1: Are you gonna put him on a wall? Hang on

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Speaker 1: a wall. I look, I look classy. Look great. Um.

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Speaker 1: One other quick thing we did Clay that I thought

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Speaker 1: you might find interesting. The day after Thanksgiving, we made

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Speaker 1: a bunch of raccoon barbecue sandwiches. Mm hmm, very good.

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Speaker 1: I put my oven on four and browned all the

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Speaker 1: legs and whatnot in the back pieces in my oven

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Speaker 1: for a long time. Then I pressure cooked him for

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes. Then we picked it, put barbecue sauce in it,

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Speaker 1: got cole slaw, pickles, and brioche buns. Yeah sounds good.

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Speaker 1: Um uh. My brother's buddy had him, so he brought

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Speaker 1: it all over. While we're on cooking, Can I uh

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Speaker 1: share a little something I learned. I think you guys

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Speaker 1: would all like to hear about because you can go

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Speaker 1: home and try it if you don't haven't tried it yet.

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Speaker 1: And for the for the life of me, I cannot remember,

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Speaker 1: I've texted three separate people saying, Hey, were you the

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Speaker 1: one that told me that you're family and your wife

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Speaker 1: really like smash burgers like Venison Burger has done smashed

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Speaker 1: burger style? Like, don't know what you're talking about, so

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Speaker 1: obviously wasn't you either? Very simple all you do is

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Speaker 1: you just get a instead of making patties, you make balls,

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Speaker 1: just venison balls, season them if you want or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I did, just playing, you know, with whatever my temper

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Speaker 1: sent fat in there big as well. Yeah, but not

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Speaker 1: not like it's probably just a little bit bigger than

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Speaker 1: a golf ball. Not quite the size of a um

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Speaker 1: you know, tennis ball. Not the same amount of meat

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Speaker 1: you would use for a regular quarter pound patty that

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Speaker 1: you like, like you normally cook your burgers at home,

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Speaker 1: right it. And if you're saying there's a big difference

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Speaker 1: between a golf ball and a tennis ball, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: said somewhere in between. Okay, I can't think of a

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Speaker 1: ball that lands right in between those two handball racketball, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there you go, that would work. Okay, So I make

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Speaker 1: a piece of meat like a super hot skill it

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Speaker 1: or flat top grill. Okay, it's gotta be flat No, can't,

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Speaker 1: can't be a grill, get it smoking hot? You put

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Speaker 1: I was doing three at a time. You put those

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Speaker 1: balls and spread them out evenly onto that skillet you

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Speaker 1: know I had. I must have been just like a

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Speaker 1: ten inch skillet. I guess that I have at home

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Speaker 1: that I was using. And then at first I started

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Speaker 1: with a slotted spatula, but I realized I wasn't gonna

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Speaker 1: be able to move fast enough. So I had another,

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Speaker 1: uh skill it where I could just put it on

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Speaker 1: top of these balls and just squish them until until

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Speaker 1: they were you know, figuratively paper thin hot spish balls

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Speaker 1: you're looking for, Yeah, paper thin patties, And so you

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Speaker 1: literally squish them down. They cook like that for less

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Speaker 1: than a minute. You flip them, throw some salt on there,

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Speaker 1: put a piece of cheese on there, let them cook

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Speaker 1: for another thirty seconds and they're done, which is another

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Speaker 1: cool thing about them. As they cook super super fast. Um,

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Speaker 1: you kind of get like weird edges, and you get

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Speaker 1: a little bit more just browned kind of bits and

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Speaker 1: pieces on your burger than you would I think doing

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Speaker 1: the normal patty. Um, so it gives you a little

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Speaker 1: more more carmelization in the mouth, a little bit more

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Speaker 1: crispy edges. But yeah, the kids each just had one,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I did a triple on mine, and I

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Speaker 1: had cheese in between each layer and meat and uh,

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Speaker 1: much much different eating experience than your standard make patty

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Speaker 1: and throw it on your grill. Cheese burger. How does

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Speaker 1: the burger know that it was squi on the grill

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Speaker 1: as opposed to on a cutting boarder on a plate.

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Speaker 1: I didn't try to do it ahead of time. So

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Speaker 1: maybe you could do it ahead of time and just

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Speaker 1: put him skinny like, but you're working with something hopefully

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be so thin that I imagine that it'd

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Speaker 1: be fragile if you try to make them that thin

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Speaker 1: ahead of time. That makes sense. Yeah, you wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: able to move it around. And the internet is full

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Speaker 1: of If you just type in smashburger recipe, there's there's,

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Speaker 1: you know, tons of recipes out there to read. I

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Speaker 1: think that's the way a lot of these uh Burger

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Speaker 1: franchise restaurants to it. Like the cool it's like in

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Speaker 1: and out burger. I think does that some of the

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Speaker 1: burger I'm not familiar with that one. Yeah, you guys

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Speaker 1: know how we were talking recently about those those crazy

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Speaker 1: footprints that came out of New Mexico, where it was

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Speaker 1: the an individual walked along a path and then walked

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Speaker 1: back along that same path some thousands of years ago,

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Speaker 1: and in the time between when he or she passed

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Speaker 1: through the second time a mammoth and a giant ground

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Speaker 1: sloth had crossed her trail in White Sands National Park

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Speaker 1: or National Monument, whatever the hell it is. A guy

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Speaker 1: from Australia wrote in about these crazy fossilized footprints from Australia.

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Speaker 1: It was from these hunters of about twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: And there's like a few sets of hunters in a family.

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Speaker 1: There's a kid that kind of wanders off and comes

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Speaker 1: back into the group, but there's also the footprints of

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Speaker 1: a one legged person. They don't see where the individual

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Speaker 1: was using a walking stick, like it either wasn't um

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Speaker 1: it either wasn't captured and the like fossilized prints. But

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Speaker 1: it seems as though this person with one leg was

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Speaker 1: able to like cruise along hopping on one leg. Wow.

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Speaker 1: We also recently reported on this big flock shooting, this

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Speaker 1: big elk hunting flock shooting occurrence in Montana. So there's

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Speaker 1: this there's a ranch and the ranches enrolled in a

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Speaker 1: in something called black management area. And the way black

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Speaker 1: management areas work as you take revenue from non resident

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Speaker 1: hunting licenses and use it to fund this program where

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Speaker 1: ranchers and landowners farmers get paid to allow get paid

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Speaker 1: a very modest fee. No one gets rich off this stuff.

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Speaker 1: They get paid a modest fee. I think the cap

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Speaker 1: is fifteen thousand a year. Yeah, it's like they're basically

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Speaker 1: doing a favor to hunters. They're like, it's a gesture.

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Speaker 1: It is a it is a gesture to the public

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Speaker 1: and part of the annoyance. This is one way you

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Speaker 1: can think about it. Part of the annoyance of this

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Speaker 1: is offset with a small amount of money. It's not

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Speaker 1: life changing money to enroll in Black Management UM, but

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Speaker 1: it's a black Manager place and an open day of

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Speaker 1: general firearm season, a bunch of guys get onto herd

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Speaker 1: of LP can start flock shooting. I think they kill

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Speaker 1: like fifty These elk citations were written. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what the citations are for. But on there we mused

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Speaker 1: about what does the landowner think about all this? Well,

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Speaker 1: a guide that that that does some work for this landowner,

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Speaker 1: not on this place, but he guides a different property

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Speaker 1: wrote in and said he watched this spectacle from seven

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Speaker 1: miles away. It was too far to see any individual

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Speaker 1: elk fall, but he said it sounded like the beaches

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Speaker 1: of Normandy When these guys surrounded this herd out and

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Speaker 1: he said, if you're asking what the landowner thought of

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, the landowner is quote not happy with

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Speaker 1: this event, and he is considering dropping out of the

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Speaker 1: black management program, which is a real disappointment. Uh. Another

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Speaker 1: thing I read about recently, Uh, a hunter in Minnesota

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Speaker 1: just fatally shot. I mean, this happens every year. Fatally

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Speaker 1: shot another hunter mistook him for a deer. Apparently the

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Speaker 1: guy that got shot, uh, wasn't wearing his hunter's orange.

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Speaker 1: This is up by the midge. Apparently the guy that

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Speaker 1: got shot wasn't wearing any hunter's orange. But you know,

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Speaker 1: and you might look at that and be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's the problem. I mean when someone when you hear

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Speaker 1: of someone mistaking someone for a deer, it's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: not only did you think you were looking at a deer,

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Speaker 1: you thought you were aiming at its rib cage. It's

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Speaker 1: just so hard to understand why this has to be

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Speaker 1: a story that you read every year multiple times, Like,

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Speaker 1: are are people so greedy and lusty that they want

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Speaker 1: a deer that bad? Yes, firing a movement like mistakey.

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Speaker 1: I don't buy the mistaking it for a deer they're

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Speaker 1: just seeing movement. It's got to be you know, I've

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Speaker 1: been I've been surprised at sometimes people. I mean as

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Speaker 1: a growing up a bow hunter, like we were taught

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Speaker 1: not to shoot at walking deer. We were taught to

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Speaker 1: really calculate the shot. I mean, you had to be

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Speaker 1: a successful bow hunter, and then transitioning later in life

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Speaker 1: to rifle hunting and different things, especially in the big

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Speaker 1: woods when deer moving through big woods. I'm surprised at

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Speaker 1: the shots that I see and hear about people taking,

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Speaker 1: which they've most got to be just you know, like

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Speaker 1: shooting at something that's moving. And I'm not saying they're

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Speaker 1: not identifying what they're seeing as a deer, but as

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Speaker 1: far as like are they aiming at the rib cage?

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they could be. You know, A

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Speaker 1: much more common hunting injury, I think it's the most

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Speaker 1: common hunting injury from firearms is when someone's swinging on

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Speaker 1: a bird with a shotgun and you know you're shooting

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Speaker 1: at a bird, but what you don't see in the

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Speaker 1: foreground or in the distance is your hunting partner or

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Speaker 1: another individual. And when I hear those stories, I'm often

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Speaker 1: like man like I could. I hesitate to say this.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I can just picture how that happens, Like

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Speaker 1: I could picture how it happens, but something like this,

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Speaker 1: I just can't. It's upsetting because it's so it's so

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Speaker 1: preventable and so much more dangerous then, you know, like

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Speaker 1: what happened to Dick Cheney years ago. UM, kind of

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Speaker 1: interesting story come out of Wisconsin. There's like a article

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Speaker 1: that comes out by a local priest who's suffering hunter harassment.

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Speaker 1: So this he's called He's a norber teen priests, which

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell that means. He's forced

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Speaker 1: to file a police report because he keeps getting continued

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Speaker 1: public harassment for bow hunting on the St. Norbert Abbey

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Speaker 1: grounds and appear. So this dude joins this like order

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Speaker 1: in two thousand thirteen, and he lives on a hundred

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Speaker 1: sixty acre abbey property, so like where he's sort of stationed.

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Speaker 1: Is a hunter do they use that term? I don't

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Speaker 1: think priests use that term. But he's stationed in this

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Speaker 1: place hundred sixty acres, and he realizes that there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of deer there, so he starts investigating and

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Speaker 1: checks into his uh city ordinances and regulations and checks

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Speaker 1: with the d NR. Uh, checks village stuff. Everybody says

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Speaker 1: there's no reason you cannot be bow hunting on abbey grounds.

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Speaker 1: So he starts a bow hunt and he quickly his

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Speaker 1: dude gets He stacks up four deer, but people in

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Speaker 1: the town are so pissed. He had to go and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, pursue his hunter harassment law protections to keep

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Speaker 1: hunting on his abbey. I was feeling going down there

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Speaker 1: and doing communion and whatnot and hanging out with the

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Speaker 1: guy just to get I can see there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners whose wheels are turning right now thinking about

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Speaker 1: ways they can get into some good hunting properties. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to become a priest. Yeah, that's that's a

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Speaker 1: line of work. I'm sorry pursuing man. Um Brody talked

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Speaker 1: about this, uh talk about this dude that got in

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Speaker 1: trouble for this twoth that got in trouble for setting

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Speaker 1: a mountain bike trap. Oh yeah, this happened in Montana. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's in big trouble. Yeah, like like like there's no

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Speaker 1: way he's going to be in that much trouble. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, dude, Okay, tell everybody about it. But

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Speaker 1: I bet you he'll wind up getting like a nothing,

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Speaker 1: a slap on the slap on the list. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: we'll see. Um certainly could have hurt some people. This

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Speaker 1: guy is not a fan of mountain bikers, which you know,

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I I can understand. Like, I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: the story. First, he put a board that he had hammered,

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Speaker 1: maybe a dozen nails through, quite a few nails, to

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Speaker 1: lay across the trail so that when mountain bikers ran

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Speaker 1: over that board they popped their tires. This was in

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Speaker 1: an area where mountain biking is completely legal. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even sure how they tracked the guy down and confirmed

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Speaker 1: that that it was him, but he confessed to it.

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Speaker 1: Dude out walk and his kids stepped on the board, right,

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying, how did they get from point A

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Speaker 1: to point people? Like? How did they ever figure out

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Speaker 1: who the hell is doing it? Who it was? But

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Speaker 1: he once they they caught up to him, he confessed

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Speaker 1: to it, said he wasn't trying to hurt anyone, He

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Speaker 1: just didn't like all those mountain bikers out there. When

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Speaker 1: I was reading about one of the the things that struck

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Speaker 1: me was one of the investigators winds up interviewing a

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Speaker 1: guy who had allowed this individual access to the national

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Speaker 1: forest through his private property, and when the investigator prevents,

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Speaker 1: presents this guy with a board with all the nails

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Speaker 1: through it. He tells the investigator, Yes, I saw the

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Speaker 1: suspect with such a board who laid out for me

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Speaker 1: his plan to use it to to reduce mountain bike traffic.

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Speaker 1: They describe this guy as a witness, But how is

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Speaker 1: he not sort of complicit? Right, Like if he could

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Speaker 1: have at least said that's not not a good idea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like if I went to your house, Brody, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: see this machete, I'm gonna take this machete and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go or hit claw on the head with it, right,

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Speaker 1: and then I do that and then later you're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, he did have a machete and he told

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Speaker 1: me he was gonna hit Clay on the head with it. Like,

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Speaker 1: is that is that being a witness or is that

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Speaker 1: being like something different accomplice? Yeah. The reason the reason

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Speaker 1: I hesitated earlier is because there's a spot that I

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Speaker 1: hunt back in Colorado where, um, you know, I've seen

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Speaker 1: some illegal mountain bike use, some illegal motorcycle use, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know it bugs me, but that's you know, in

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Speaker 1: a spot they're not supposed to be. So do you

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Speaker 1: normally just like string piano wire across those No. No,

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Speaker 1: But um, I'm not gonna lie if I hadn't said I.

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Speaker 1: I fantasized about the idea of doing the same exact

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Speaker 1: thing this guy did. But of course I never falled

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Speaker 1: through with it, because you can hurt someone, you know

375
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Speaker 1: you can. But I'll tell you on those trails, illegal

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Speaker 1: trails like that, because I know, I mean, we might

377
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Speaker 1: be talking about the same spot, but I would sort

378
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Speaker 1: of advertently maybe kick up big rock onto that trail,

379
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Speaker 1: roll a log onto that trail. I mean, no one's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be mountain bike in it, so like you know,

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Speaker 1: they come across a log, they should be prepared for that.

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Speaker 1: I got. I got a cousin he caught a thirty

383
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Speaker 1: I remember, he caught a sixty three pound beaver one time.

384
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Speaker 1: But the same cousin he tells me this, told me this,

385
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Speaker 1: This is a long time ago. According to this cousin

386
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Speaker 1: of mine, he one time was in an emergency room

387
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 1: like where the um ambulances pull up and you got

388
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: like the sliding doors. I don't know what the hell

389
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: he's doing there, but he's there. He says that out

390
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: of this ambulance comes a gurney and on the gurney

391
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Speaker 1: is a headless corpse. Under its arm is a helmet

392
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Speaker 1: with the head still in it. This struck his curiosity,

393
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Speaker 1: and he says that what happened was a guy was

394
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Speaker 1: so pissed about snow machiners snowmobilers that he did, like

395
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Speaker 1: Yanni said, and strung a wire. I love that. True

396
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Speaker 1: or not, we still we floated it. We used to

397
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Speaker 1: flow the river where the landowner, one of the landowners,

398
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 1: you got to float through his property. He strung some

399
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: wires keep kayakers and rafters from rolling through. So we

400
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: just carried wire cutters with us. Okay, Clay, tell us

401
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: about the um tell us about what's going on with

402
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: this Washington bear hunting deal. Now, yeah, so there's uh.

403
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Speaker 1: I talked to a lady today that's what the Inland

404
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: Northwest Wildlife Council named Marie new Miller. Really nice lady,

405
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Speaker 1: and she talked about how she was at a a

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Speaker 1: spring the commission meeting and because the spring seasons were

407
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: the first seasons of one that they came up and

408
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: were talked about, and basically she was the only hunter

409
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: there that gave any positive input about the spring seasons

410
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Speaker 1: in Washington, and she said that there were basically there

411
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Speaker 1: was a room full of people that were upset about

412
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: the that had negative things to say about a spring season.

413
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Speaker 1: They had all these different reasons, but there was a

414
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: couple of interesting things that she spoke about. So this

415
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: was a zoom meeting, and she said that there's a

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00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: lot of out of state special interest groups that are

417
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: influencing wildlife law in the state of Washington and in

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00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: other places, which was kind of a new, a new

419
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: idea that it's kind of an influence of COVID because

420
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: there's a Mountain lion group in California, an anti predator

421
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: hunting group in California that was present in this meeting.

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Speaker 1: Um there, I made a list here of five takeaways

423
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: from what she said, Steve, But basically, COVID nineteen and

424
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Speaker 1: these some of these ZOOM meetings are given access to

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Speaker 1: to these groups to regulation meetings from AFAR that they

426
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: never had. The second thing that would never have showed up,

427
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 1: that wouldn't have been like to show up for local meeting.

428
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: That's right, they would have never showed up. The second

429
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: of all is that in the state of Washington, and

430
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: I would assume this is the same in other states.

431
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:04,719
Speaker 1: They that any email that comes into the commission is

432
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: presented and somehow acknowledged by the commission. And so these

433
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: anti hunting groups are pretty well raped, well put together,

434
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: and they're sending these form emails. So basically, one of

435
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: the people got up and said, hey, we had five

436
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: hundred and forty emails come in against the spring hunt

437
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: and it was a form email chain sent out by

438
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: one of these anti hunting groups. But you know what

439
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 1: that does inside of a crowd, when you begin to

440
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: hear something negative, it's it's like empowered some of the

441
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: people that were actually in the zoom meeting to begin

442
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: to speak out against it. And um, basically she was like,

443
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: where are the hunters at? Where where the where's the

444
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: voice of the hunters? Yeah, and her her point to

445
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: me was that the commissions here the squeaky wheel, but

446
00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: not the positive stories of hunters and hunting and uh,

447
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, we've we have I think the solution to

448
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: the problem, and there's nothing specific that's happening in Washington,

449
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: Like there's not a regulation that's being proposed that takes

450
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,959
Speaker 1: away their spring hunt, but it just came up and

451
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: she sent an email to meat Eater and Uh, basically,

452
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: as hunters, we need to build a culture that's more

453
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: proactive talking with our game commissions, talking about the positive

454
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: things that that we see inside of our hunting seasons.

455
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: Because there's definitely squeaky squeaky wheels. Um, you know, the

456
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: there's a the cultural shifts that we're experiencing today inside

457
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: of his era of technology. Basically, rapid culture shifts can

458
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: have significant consequences and hunting regulations and are moving much

459
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: faster than they have in past decades because of technology,

460
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: if I can say it that way, Like so, like

461
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: you know, this idea of some murmur about a spring

462
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: bear hunt not being a good thing, Like maybe in

463
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: past times that would have taken twenty five years to

464
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: infiltrate a deep part of the culture to change regulation.

465
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: Well anymore, it's that is moving much faster, and so

466
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, I just think we just have to be

467
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: more proactive with the tech communication game as hunters and

468
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: and and speak up for stuff. But this points to

469
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: a thing that I argue about frequently with my very

470
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: dear friend Carl Malcolm, and Carl's of the opinion that

471
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: you know, um, we need more voices, right, more voices

472
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: in the room, more seats at the table, and that

473
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: game management in this country has so long been uh

474
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: so heavily influenced by hunters and anglers, and he's points

475
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: to the fact that we need to be realistic about

476
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: the fact that more people have input and that we're

477
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: not always going to enjoy having oversized input on like

478
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: game commission rules and things. Uh. I don't know if

479
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: he's being pragmatic or if he's being hopeful when he

480
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: talks about the fact that more people are going to

481
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: be coming into the conversation, but I don't necessarily look

482
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: at that as an entirely good thing. UM. And as

483
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: we deal with like management and funding structures, where right

484
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: now fishing game agencies are funded largely by hunters and

485
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: anglers and shooters meaning people to buy hunting and fishing

486
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: licenses and all kinds of other things that are have

487
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: excise taxes on them for that purpose, like marine gas

488
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: and sporting goods and all kinds of things. UM. Funding

489
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: from that and funny like funny from buying licenses and

490
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: buying sporting goods. Right, So the users are paying. As

491
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: we look at these other funding structures and we talk about,

492
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: you know, having a backpack tax or a trail tax

493
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: or some way for other outdoor users to kick in money.

494
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: Then when they kick in money, they're gonna probably want

495
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: to have their opinions be heard. And I don't think

496
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: their opinions their eyes gonna go along with ours. Yeah,

497
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: but the truck to you can do that is just

498
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: target those dollars to what they're used for. So there's

499
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: an exercise tax on mountain bikes that's for fixing up

500
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: mountain bike trails someplace. That's great. That shouldn't be something

501
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: that the hunters dollars should be paying for, which has

502
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: been partly done in the past. You just segregate the accounts.

503
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: You know, in terms of fish and wildlife management, hunters

504
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: ought to have a learn to say we do. I

505
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: think it goes back to and you guys help me

506
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 1: understand this better. Even it goes back to how these

507
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: state ame agencies are run. Like her, one of the

508
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: things we talked about today. She told me that four

509
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: percent of people in Washington State or hunters, So they're

510
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: starting out as a minority. So the anti hunting argument

511
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: is that, hey, most of the people in the state

512
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: aren't for this, specifically talking about the spring bear hunt.

513
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: So this is a democratic society, so why don't we

514
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: stop the spring bear hunt? And the game agency in

515
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: Washington came back with a great response as I understood it,

516
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: which was, we don't manage our game based upon democratic

517
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: feel I mean, and I know here in Arkansas our

518
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: commission is totally run by these commissioners. I mean, it's

519
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 1: it's not a referendum state, meaning you can't just get

520
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of people together sign a petition to get

521
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: something made into law. Um, So that brings up the question,

522
00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: I mean, is our our game management practice is up

523
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: for the democratic process. Yeah, but I mean, like so

524
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: much stuff in society is not or so much stuff.

525
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: We have a representative democracy, right, like you have an

526
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: opportunity now and then for your congressmanutes every two years,

527
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: your senators every six years, your presidents every four years, whatever,

528
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: you have an opportunity now and then the way in

529
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: and generally how things are going. But when people point

530
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: out like it's a democratic society. It's like, Okay, if

531
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: we're gonna go invade Iraq, right, do we then have

532
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: a quick vote to see if we're gonna do it

533
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: or not? If we're gonna have a new tax buill,

534
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: do we have a quick vote to see if we're

535
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: gonna do it or not? Or like we're gonna lower, um,

536
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 1: the maximum fine for marijuana possession, do we put that?

537
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: Of course not like we'd like get people to do

538
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: things for us, and we don't subject everything to a

539
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 1: temperature check, a public temperature check every time we turn around. Um.

540
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: And so when people like, when people point out that argument,

541
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I see what you're saying, But we

542
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: don't do anything like that. Yeah. One of the things

543
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk to One of the things I want

544
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: to talk to with about is, uh, what are do

545
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: you have opinions about what happened with Colorado? The um

546
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: where in this case where we did go to a

547
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: public opinion and have like a public opinion a poll

548
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: on a path toward a wolf. Yeah, No, I don't

549
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: you know. Listen, I think that you know the worst

550
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: thing you can do is to sort of have you

551
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: well life management by ballot box I mean, this is

552
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: professionals how to be dealing with this stuff. And you

553
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: that's why you have professionally run you know, game fishing,

554
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: game agencies. And no, I think if we've failed, if

555
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: we go to this you know model of you know,

556
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: trying to get the citizens way in on it was

557
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: just like that. Colorado has a history of that too. Yeah,

558
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: that involves the spring bear hunt, you know, and I

559
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: think in the mid nineties the spring bear hunt in

560
00:35:54,040 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: Colorado was outlawed by ballot box initiative. You can even

561
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: argue that, you know, Congress is not the right place

562
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: to be dealing with things like a wolf de listing,

563
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: which we ended up having to do around you know,

564
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: the gradielist an ecosystems, certainly because you know, the courts

565
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: kept blocking it even though biologically it was justified to

566
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: delist wolves. So Congress had to weigh in and you know,

567
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: deal with it there. But again that's not the best

568
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: place either. Are you guys familiar with the predator hunting

569
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory that the anti hunting community wants to shut

570
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: down predator hunting so that predators would overtake the landscape

571
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: and take down ungulate numbers to such a level that

572
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: hunting would no longer be necessary because have you heard that? Yeah, no,

573
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: I hear that. Do you know the do you There's

574
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: one we'd like to talk about a lot which is

575
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: even more insidious. It was that the Clintons. I know

576
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna say that they liked what they wanted wolves

577
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: to come. They wanted the wolves reintroduction because the wolves

578
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: would kill all the game. No one would hunt anymore,

579
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: and if they couldn't hunt, they wouldn't have any reason

580
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 1: to buy a gun. And that's how you disarm America.

581
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: It's a long it's a long play. So I feel

582
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: like I I don't know that that I know that theory.

583
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: And there's a guy, there's a guy that's a very

584
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: big proponent of he's right here in our town. He's

585
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: done a lot around wolf reintroductions, and he gives a

586
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 1: lot of talks about UH wolf reintroductions. Really likes him

587
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: a lot, and he's very antagonistic toward hunters. And I've

588
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: mentioned this a couple of times where he referred to

589
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: hunters as the recreational big game killing industry UH and

590
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: views them as being like an adversary for it. But

591
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that he views wolf reintroduction as a

592
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: way to ticket to hunters. M I think it's more

593
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: like he veals that we have an obligation to like

594
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: restore in a completely intact ecosystem. Be my guess. Maybe

595
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 1: at night he's like, you know, like this insidious plot.

596
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: But I I don't know. I mean, I couldnot like

597
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: if anybody could put it together and be the Clinton's though, Yeah,

598
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, hey, did you know my dad

599
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: went to high school with Bill Clinton? Because you're from Arkansas?

600
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: Did they party a lot? No? He was a few

601
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 1: years older than my dad, but well I'm sure Clinton did. Yeah.

602
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're old man partied with him?

603
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: Not not Gary Newcomb, No, sir, so you're your old man.

604
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Can't put your Gary Newcomb? Can't put the rest this

605
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: inhale or not inhale thing? Well he probably could, but

606
00:38:46,360 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: not because he was there, got it. We we're a

607
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: little bit now, we're not too terribly early. Every year

608
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: most every year for the last few years, we've done

609
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: with wit from Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership where a full disclosure,

610
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: I am a proud board member. Uh. When Fosburgh comes

611
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: in and does a recap. So the year is not

612
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: quite done. I mean, you know, it's it's it's winding down.

613
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: We're getting there. It's winding down. Last year when we

614
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: did this, you had, uh you had about nineteen a

615
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: general thumbs up. We went through the details, but you

616
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: had a thumbs up from conservation perspective. Where where does

617
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: the thumb sit. Now, let's say it's a middle of

618
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: the road kind of sideways right now. There are some

619
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: huge accomplishments. They're also doing some real disappointments. Really uh so, yeah,

620
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: So I think it's you know Nick bag as he

621
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: usually is, listen, and I think that overall, I think

622
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 1: we're happy with where we got this year. We have

623
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: some challenging circumstances, but once again, in least in Congress,

624
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: conservation proved one of those things that you could actually

625
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: get done in a very hyperpartisan year presidential election, you know,

626
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: hot congressional elections, everything else. That's one of the you

627
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: talking about that and explaining how that happens, that conservation

628
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: is a thing that can move forward when when nothing

629
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: else can move forward. I was kind of thinking about

630
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: that a little bit recently and looking at um that

631
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: we'd have uh, you know, Republican led Senate, the Democrat

632
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: the White House. They're not gonna get anything done. Maybe

633
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: they'll decide to focus on some some conservation work to

634
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: get those easy wins that you were talking about that

635
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: they often get thirsty for. Yeah, I think so. I

636
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: mean they have to everyone has to show they can

637
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: legislate and get stuff done. And if you look back

638
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: at this year, I mean things like the Great American

639
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: Outdoor Act, which was permanent and full funding for the

640
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: Land Water Conservation Fund. It was a ten billion dollar

641
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: almost trust fund to deal with maintenance backlog in public lands.

642
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: That came together because you know, a lot of different interests.

643
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: You know, I thought it was a good idea at

644
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: the time. Some of those were conservationist just interests, some

645
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: more political. There was an idea that you know, they

646
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: wanted to help, you know, Corey Gardner in Colorado and

647
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: Steve Danes, you re election efforts. So you know Trump

648
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: proposed doing this. This is when the Democrats have been

649
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: pushing for years, and they weren't dumb enough to say, oh,

650
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: because you're proposing, I'm gonna vote against it. It's like, hell, yeah,

651
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: bring it on, and so that allowed us to get

652
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: it done. Can you can you explain why, like the

653
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,879
Speaker 1: Elder talk people through the l w CF, and why

654
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: we had to have a new thing called the Great

655
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: American Outdoors Act to sort of like provide backing for

656
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: a thing we already had, which is the LWCF. Like,

657
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 1: why does it require a new It wasn't. It's just basically,

658
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, Congress passes things in bulk these days. It

659
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: doesn't do individual bills very often. So the Great American

660
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: Outdoors Act had two independent bills underneath it. One was

661
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: Land and Water Conservation Fund. The other was a maintenance backlog.

662
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,240
Speaker 1: Just a little background on Land of Work Conservation Fund.

663
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: It was created in nineteen by Congress when they opened

664
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: up the Outer Continental Shelf that oil and gas development.

665
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: The idea was that oil and gas industry pay into

666
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: a fund UH to do national resource conservation in perpetuity

667
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,799
Speaker 1: million dollars a year. The problem was that in the

668
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: fifty five years that has been around, only once did

669
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: Congress actually fully funded. So you know, two thousand nineteen

670
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: and a big ominibus bill that we passed, we permanently

671
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: reauthorized this. You don't have to go back to Congress

672
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: every year every five years to get it reauthorized. In

673
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: the Great American Outdoors Act, we took that funding and

674
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: moved it off budget because what did Congress has been

675
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: doing is saw this juicy pot of funding sitting out

676
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: there that had not been protected in nine from being rated.

677
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: So Congress rated it for all sorts of purposes unrelated

678
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: to conservation. What were they rating it for deficit reduction schools?

679
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: You know? Who knows? I mean, it just it was

680
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: used for other purposes. So they still collected the money

681
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: from the oil, yes company, oil and gas industry paid

682
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: into it every year nine million dollars, and in their

683
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: mind they're paying into it because of this thing, this fund.

684
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: But then the money goes and sits in another pile

685
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: and someone grabs the money off that pile. Oh yeah no.

686
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: So Congress looks at and says, what we can give

687
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: it the nine hundred million dollars we're supposed to, or

688
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: we could give it half of that and use the

689
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: other half for these pet projects we might have. So finally,

690
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: what we've been trying to do is get that off

691
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: budget so it automatically goes out things like Pittman Robertson

692
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: Dingle Johnson. You know those funds. Congress is not allowed

693
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: to tamper with the sportsman's exercise taxes. Let's go to

694
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: the federal government and then go back out to the states.

695
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: This would be similar in that the nine million dollars

696
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 1: in full guess for goes to projects like it was intended,

697
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: land acquisition, permanent Easeman's city parks, trails, those types of activities.

698
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 1: You know, that was a huge win. You know, I

699
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: think people might be interested in about when we're talking

700
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: about money going into piles and someone robbing that money

701
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: is uh, you know, when you buy like earlier, I

702
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 1: mean we talked about this, when you buy your fishing license. Okay,

703
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,919
Speaker 1: the money from your fishing license goes to support your

704
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: state game agency, which does everything from like regulation, you know,

705
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: enforcement of hunting and fishing laws, disease research, access enhancement,

706
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: boat launches, like on down the line. It goes to

707
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: all this stuff. If a state, states are blocked. You

708
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: can tell me if this is a universal or not.

709
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: States are blocked from raiding that money because if they

710
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: raid that money and don't put it for what it's

711
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: supposed to go to, they're not eligible for the federal

712
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 1: funds that come from the excise taxes. Correct. Ye, so

713
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: you get like you get like slapped on the hand.

714
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: Um if you try to steal the hunting and fishing money. Correct.

715
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: And now that it was genius when they set that

716
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 1: up because people would have taken that money. Oh sure.

717
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: And so now you know you have a Congress can't

718
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: rate it and the states can't rate it. You know

719
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 1: the matching funds the states use basically which is their

720
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 1: state license fees. So no, it's a it's a perfect situation.

721
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: It's worked and that's why it's funded conservation for since

722
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties. Is there like when all this LWCF

723
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: money comes in, um, who who is the who is

724
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: the who's the collection of people that decides where it goes?

725
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: So half of it goes basically half of it goes

726
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: back after the states, and the states can use it

727
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: for anything from real conservation, migration corrid or is that

728
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: type of activity, or they can use it for a

729
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: city baseball diamond, basketball courts, you know, urban recreation. They

730
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: have flexibility and how that gets used. The other half

731
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,240
Speaker 1: is basically goes to the agency's Department of the Interior

732
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 1: Department of Agriculture that then goes out for very specific projects.

733
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 1: And what we're trying to do is, you know, make

734
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: sure that they really think about projects a little bit differently.

735
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: They have in the past. LWCF has been used to

736
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: fund like the big Plum Creek acquisitions on the Blackfoot

737
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: and you know, things like that, which are multimillion dollar,

738
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: really complex deals. But it could also be used for

739
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: things like, you know, funding you buy one section someplace

740
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: in Montana to open up a landlocked parcel. You know,

741
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: as you guys know, we've been working with ONYX on

742
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: those reports on landlocked and you've got sixteen and a

743
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: half million acres around the country that are owned by

744
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 1: the public but the public can't access. So you start

745
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: thinking about a little bit differently because three of the

746
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: nine million, seven million dollars annually is your remarked for

747
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: access projects. So start thinking about that little section or

748
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: half sections someplace that opens up a whole bunch of

749
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: different land and the on X project it really helps

750
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: identify where those areas are. Yeah, because that's like a

751
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: that's like a force multiplier on your money when you

752
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: buy like a small chunk and open up a huge chunk. Yeah,

753
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: and you mentioned even like you know, the you know,

754
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: block management in Montana, if you buy a section that

755
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 1: opens up more block management potentially, or target some of

756
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: the block management, which is also funded by the farm bill,

757
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 1: you know, to you know again access that national forest

758
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,280
Speaker 1: behind you what you said that some of this money

759
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: could be used, And it surprised me when you said

760
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: like urban projects like baseball diamonds and such. I knew

761
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: that a lot some of that money I had seen

762
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: wording inside of that where it said it could go

763
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: for rifle ranges and firearms related stuff. I mean, how

764
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: how can how are we not are we guarding against

765
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: like all of that money going to by small diamonds. Well,

766
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, you're it's largely a state

767
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: decision where they want to spend it. So engage in

768
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: the process. You work with your game and fish agency,

769
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: you know, your record aptor parks or agency, whatever is

770
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: in the state, and help influence that decision. The idea

771
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: was that it makes sense to send some of this

772
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: money local and locals decide how they want to spend it,

773
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that they can think

774
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 1: about you know, yeah, that different ideas like migration quarridors.

775
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,359
Speaker 1: You see a lot of those estates in the West

776
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: are now developing formal migration policies try to identify and

777
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 1: protect big game migration corridors use some of the state

778
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: side money to help, you know, further that cause, as

779
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: well as doing things like baseball diamonds or if you

780
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: do a shooting range or you know, whatever it might be. Uh, well,

781
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: let's go on to you got I got a quick

782
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:53,240
Speaker 1: follow up if it's all right with I want to know. Thanks, Steve,

783
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Um when when you're like, what does it

784
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: look like? If you can give me like an abbreviated

785
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: version of when like you're in there in the trenches

786
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: in d C trying to help push something like the

787
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: Great American Outdoors Act through what does that look like

788
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: on a day to day basis? And then too like

789
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: did you are there allies that like right alongside t

790
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: RCP that are maybe not in our you know, the

791
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing bubble that are also in there? And

792
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: also a great question answer to the second part first,

793
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: so yeah, we had great allies in the outdoor recreation community,

794
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: in the historic preservation community. Yeah, it's a big you know,

795
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 1: there were literally hundreds and hundreds of different groups that

796
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: were engaged in this. We're all fighting side by side

797
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: for it in terms of what it looks like in

798
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: the trenches. I mean, what we do is really two things. One,

799
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 1: we provide good information. You know, we let a member

800
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: of Congress know, here are the projects that have benefited

801
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 1: and hunters and anglers in your state through all the BCF.

802
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 1: Here are the other types of projects that are sitting

803
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 1: out there that could get funded if we had full funding.

804
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 1: And then what we also do is apply some pressure.

805
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: And you know, honestly, they don't want to see me

806
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: walking in the door. They want to hear from their

807
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: local rod and Gun club in that state, you know,

808
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: the local chapter of Pheasants Forever Turkey Federation engage. I mean,

809
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: local voices matter a lot more than you know, guys

810
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: like me that live in here in d C. And

811
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: they're paid to do this stuff. So what we try

812
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: to do is, you know, and that's why we have

813
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 1: guys and you know a lot of the western states

814
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: around the country as organizers mobilizing local businesses, local citizens,

815
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: local rod and gun clubs to engage on these issues

816
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: to make their voices heard. So it's one part good information,

817
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: another part yeah, just you know, shoe leather and getting

818
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: the people out there that can help influences. Thank you.

819
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: Uh you put down Pebble Mine in the wind category

820
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: and yeah, and I recognize that. And to bring people

821
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: that have been following this show. Um, we had a

822
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: big pebble episode recently. I should say recently, but I

823
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: guess this fall we had a big Pebble Mind episode.

824
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: And it was funny because while we were recording that,

825
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: we had a gentleman on Tim Bristol Um who just coincidentally,

826
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: his last name is Bristol and Pebble Mind is you know,

827
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: in the headwaters of Bristol Bay. And he came on

828
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 1: and sort of laid out the whole history of where

829
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: this idea came from, why it's a bad idea, why

830
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: it won't go away, and and literally while we were

831
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: speaking with him, he was very eager to get home

832
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: after the interview. While we were speaking with him, a

833
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: story was breaking about some some activists who had masqueraded

834
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: as foreign investors in Pebble Mind, and the CEO of

835
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: Pebble Mind, what what was his name? With Tom Collier,

836
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: Tom Collier. These people masquerade as investors, and they do

837
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: in a call with Tom Collier from Pebble Line, and

838
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 1: Tom Collier um really opens up to them in a

839
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,720
Speaker 1: way that wound up being deeply humiliating to him, where

840
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: he contradicted a lot of Pebble Mind's own messaging. Um

841
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: they had all along in the permitting process been looking for,

842
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, like a ten or twenty

843
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 1: year roadmap. He shares with these these supposed investors that

844
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 1: this is like a twenty year play that he's got

845
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 1: plans where the state is going to pay for a

846
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: lot more things in the state had any intention of

847
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 1: paying paying for. And then he really liked drives a

848
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: nail on his own coffin by speaking rather disparagingly of

849
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: a number of politicians that he needs to have a

850
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: lot of cooperation with, to the point where, uh, some

851
00:52:56,719 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: politicians who haven't been entirely supportive or to entirely dismissive,

852
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: but it wanted the process to run, and they've been

853
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 1: pretty careful to say that, like, this is a process

854
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: we're gonna allow to play out, and they don't want

855
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: to weigh into heavily. But anyways, he goes and shares it. Basically,

856
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: these people are in his back pocket, and when the

857
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: rubber meets the world, they'll do what he says. And

858
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: there's nothing that's going to be quicker at getting those

859
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: politicians to not do what you say than to say that,

860
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, listen, that was you know, I'm not sure

861
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: that you know, the interview, the tapes, you know, had

862
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: that big bearing on the corps final decision to deny

863
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 1: the permit for the Mind. But it's sure as hell

864
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: have for persuade Leasa Murkowsky and Dan Sullivan to come

865
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: out very vocally against that mine, oh just as it

866
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: was so insulting to them, and uh, you know it was.

867
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: And we've been trying to get them both to come

868
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: out hard against the Mind, and again, like you say,

869
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: they've just sort of taking a very neutral stance of

870
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: let's wait and see, let's see what they say, not

871
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,399
Speaker 1: wanting to you know, take anybody off. But started saying

872
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 1: that stuff, holy map, they went off like Roman candidles. Yeah,

873
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: it was, you know, it was just one of those uh,

874
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,879
Speaker 1: you know, if you were gonna and I'm sure someone

875
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: will someday make a documentary about this entire process that

876
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,400
Speaker 1: would be sort of like, you know, a huge moment

877
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: in the film is this call. But but that set

878
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: off I don't know if it's set off or not.

879
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: It sure seemed to set off a um cascade of events,

880
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, there's people wanting to do investigations.

881
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: Tom Collier is dismissed from his position. Uh, the Army

882
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: Corps of Engineers comes in and and rejects the proposal.

883
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: But this the fighting about this mine is that just

884
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: it never goes away. Like when we had this this episode,

885
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: I was pointing out to someone that I went to

886
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: my first pebble mind event, I thought it was the

887
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: year before my kid was born. He's ten years old.

888
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: And um Bristol had pointed out that to really close

889
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 1: this thing up, there needs to be some land designations

890
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,479
Speaker 1: in that area that would make it that we don't

891
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: just need to constantly revisit this horrible idea. I don't

892
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: want to spend too much time, so we've covered so

893
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: heavy a basis like this, like when you draw a

894
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: gold bearing or out of the ground, you use an acid. Yeah,

895
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,399
Speaker 1: you use cyanide to dissolve the gold out right. This

896
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: isn't like digging up for gold nuggets. This is like

897
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 1: or that contains gold. You crush that stuff up, put

898
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: cyanide on it, and that dissolves the gold. Then you're

899
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: able to collect the dissolved gold. The problem is you

900
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:53,280
Speaker 1: have all this you have all this waste from the cyanide,

901
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:54,799
Speaker 1: and you have like a bunch of heavy metals that

902
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: are in water, and that stuff don't go away. So

903
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: you gotta make a big lake and you fill this

904
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: lake up with all this ship right, um, And they

905
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: just in their plan they're like, oh, yeah, and the

906
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,240
Speaker 1: lake will always be there, but we'll build a sweet

907
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: dam to hold it in. And people like, what do

908
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 1: you mean always? I mean like twenty years, fifty years. No,

909
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: it's like for an eternity, forever, forever. The lake of

910
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: toxic sludge sits there behind the earth and dam, and

911
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,040
Speaker 1: people point out, well, how can the dam be forever?

912
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 1: And they're like, to be a sweet damn, real nice damn. Yeah,

913
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: sismically seismically active area. Yeah. And so it just is

914
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: very unsettling to people who have to trust that this

915
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: earth and dam will hold for the rest of human history. Right.

916
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: It's just hard to buy. It's hard the toxic sludge

917
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 1: does last for eternity as far as you know, it's

918
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: got a it's got a greater life expectancy than the

919
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: damn that's for sure. So that's where in this mind,

920
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 1: like in a nutshell, that's where this mind becomes really problematic. Uh,

921
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: there is that. But your original point is exactly right,

922
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 1: and that's what you know, Tim, and you know Tim

923
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: and I used to work together and try to limit it,

924
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: and he you know. So the trick now is how

925
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: do you permanently protect that area? Do you do land

926
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: swap with the state and give them some federal lands

927
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: where they actually me make some money, you know? Do

928
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,479
Speaker 1: you get the state legislature to designate all those state

929
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: lands as you know, some sort of you know, salmon reserve,

930
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, something like that. But you know, there's nothing

931
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: to stop the next fly by Night and jackass company

932
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 1: coming in there five years from now and they think

933
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: they have favorable politicians and do the exact same thing again.

934
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:44,760
Speaker 1: M do you think that will kind of put a

935
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: wrap on this? Now? Do you think that's just the

936
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: the appetite, the political appetite too, Like, just squash this

937
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: once and for all, you think it will be left

938
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: to linger. No, I think there's an appetite, you know,

939
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: thank you Tom Collier to kill this once and for

940
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:00,919
Speaker 1: all now. And so I think that you know, Lisa

941
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: mccowski is already on record and you know, variety of

942
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: publications saying that she wants to find a permanent protection

943
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: mechanism for Bristol days. Yeah. Now, one of the things

944
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: that I was wondering about when you know, I was

945
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: pretty happy when um, Donald Trump Jr. Uh, Tucker Carlson,

946
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: a number of right wing figures came out and you know,

947
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: varying degrees of intensity, but came out like in opposition

948
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 1: to pebble mind. And I went, remember, I remember wondering

949
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: if this would somehow be like cover or could be

950
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: justified as cover for something else. Uh, which I think

951
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: And now that's like a conspiracy theory that exists in

952
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: my own head or not. But layout where we're at,

953
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 1: you know, in the year and review around the Arctic

954
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: National Wildlife Refuge. So another premier, um, another massive, premier

955
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 1: pristine ecosystem in Alaska that for my entire life we've

956
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: been arguing about do we leave it be or do

957
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 1: we tap its resources? Yeah, so a little bit of

958
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: background on this one. And again you know, we don't

959
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: do a whole lot with an wharf which is arcade

960
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: National Wilife Refuge. But but you know, there's history here.

961
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: So when the Alaska Native Lands, I guess it was

962
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: Alaska National Interest Lands Act passed in the nineties seventies,

963
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: which created most of the national parks, refuges, forests we

964
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 1: have in Alaska, it was silent on what to do

965
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: with the coastal plane of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

966
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 1: It basically the four miles of coastal plane and by

967
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,919
Speaker 1: that north slope twelve hundreds of miles of which were

968
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 1: open for oil and gas development, two hundred miles being

969
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: that and more coastal plane. We're basically to be determined

970
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: what we do with it later. So when that law

971
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: passed in the seventies into the Carter administration, you know

972
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: it basically you know, it didn't have to be Nostradama's

973
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: to know you're gonna have fights over that area for

974
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: a very long time. And that's just what's played out.

975
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: And you know, so now here we are, you know,

976
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: a long time later, and we're still dealing with it.

977
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: So it's always been the goal of politicians in Alaska

978
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,919
Speaker 1: to open it up because they were convinced that there's

979
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 1: the next Prude Obey is sitting under there. I think

980
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: it's very questionable or that's true or not. But what

981
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 1: happened now is you finally had you know, during the

982
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: beginning of this administration, you had a Republican House, Republican

983
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: Senate Trump, and they jammed through opening up an war

984
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: to development. And now the part of the interior is

985
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: moving as fast as humanly possible to you know, get

986
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: the first lease out of there, and knowing that the

987
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: Biden administration when they come in, is going to shut

988
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 1: that thing down. It's much harder to shut it down

989
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 1: if there's already a sole lease someplace. So that's you know,

990
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: that's why they're trying to get at least right now

991
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 1: and have somebody buy some thing out there so that

992
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: it's much harder undo in the future. I mean, there's

993
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: people that are posed to drilling in in where what

994
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: are the reasons they're opposed to it? Well, I mean

995
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: the main thing is I think actually, you know, there's

996
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 1: a variety of different reasons, but this the porcupine caribou

997
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 1: herd is the main one that's their main calving grounds.

998
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,919
Speaker 1: Obviously it's a big polar bear area too, and polar

999
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: bearers aren't doing great right now. But it is, you know,

1000
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: because it was the biological heart of the refuge, which

1001
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: is why it wasn't set. It opened up for a

1002
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: well and gas development in the nineteen seventies and you know,

1003
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, Steve, you've been up there, you know, so

1004
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: you've seen it. And when those cariboos come in, as

1005
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, pretty freaking amazing and huge numbers, and in

1006
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: the spring in early summer. So I think that's the

1007
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,720
Speaker 1: main reason. And it's just that, you know, if you

1008
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 1: go over to prude obay Or it is a major

1009
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: industrial city, and you know, I think there's a lot

1010
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: of folks that want to leave that coastal plain over

1011
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,479
Speaker 1: an Animore the way it is not looking like that. Yeah,

1012
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: you want to Uh, when you deal with something where

1013
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 1: you have this like this pebble mind issue in the

1014
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: ani issue, um, you do get a little self conscious.

1015
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: I get a little self conscious about um. The tendency,

1016
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: my tendency to look at every development project and be like,

1017
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: oh no, not there, this is a line in the sand,

1018
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: and then the next one not there. This is a

1019
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 1: line in the sand, you know. But I do feel

1020
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: like that, man, Um, Like I can't I don't know

1021
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: if there's even maybe it's just perceived. It's in my

1022
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: head that there's supposed to be this idea that we're

1023
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: you trade one for the other, Like Okay, you can't

1024
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: do the big gold mine, but um, we'll make it

1025
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: up to you with some oil leases. But man, I

1026
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: mean we're talking about places that are again like like

1027
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: the most productive in the case of Bristol Bay, like

1028
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: most productive salmon fishery in the world, um with anwar

1029
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: one of the most pristine Arctic ecosystems on the planet.

1030
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: So like, I want to being a little bit unapologetic,

1031
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: even though it's in my head that that you're being

1032
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: like a real obstructionists by just feel in my mind like, yeah,

1033
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: those those things, it's like if we can't have the

1034
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: sort of audacity and vision to protect that kind of stuff,

1035
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: like nothing is sacred. Man. Yeah, I'm totally with you,

1036
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 1: and I think they're just special places out there, and

1037
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: there are fewer and fewer of them as more and

1038
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: more of our globe gets developed. I think ann war

1039
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 1: Bristol Bay Boundary Orders is one of those kind of places. Yeah,

1040
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: we had a big campaign the Ruby Mountains, you know,

1041
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: the Invada and that's you know, a pretty special place

1042
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: as well. They're now proposing a big titanium. Mind it

1043
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: was a titanium I think, so on you by the

1044
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: Okay Finoki Swamp and Origina, which is another pretty amazing place. So,

1045
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there are no place that's not

1046
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, sort of under assault in some fashion. You know,

1047
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:09,920
Speaker 1: talk about you know, mining near the Grand Canyon. You

1048
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 1: know that's been talked about for a long time. But

1049
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 1: you can imagine extraction people, you can imagine at some

1050
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 1: point think I'll be like okay, well then where like

1051
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: I just took possession of in the mail a new

1052
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: titanium stove pipe for my seek outside stove that goes

1053
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: into my teepee tent um. I like that I was

1054
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: able to order that thing. So when people say like okay,

1055
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 1: so what okay mr, Mr, don't touch this and don't

1056
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:43,080
Speaker 1: touch that? Uh, where should we be doing this? Like

1057
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: how do you how do you answer it? I mean, look,

1058
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: there are a lot of places that appropriate to mine.

1059
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:48,840
Speaker 1: You know, go to Nevada, and look at a bunch

1060
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: of the big Barrick or Newmont or some of those

1061
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: you know mining developments out there. It's incredibly arid country.

1062
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean, the basic water is the main thing that

1063
01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: you know, gets you in the way of a good mind.

1064
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 1: And that's where dealing with in Bristol Bay, that's where

1065
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: you're dealing with the Ooki Finoki the boundary waters Nevada

1066
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: place like that, that's not an issue. I mean, I

1067
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 1: guess six inches of rainfall a year or whatever. So

1068
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I just think, are there are places in

1069
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: Nevada that are that are not being mind that could be?

1070
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I have no idea. I'm not

1071
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: you know, mineral I'm not geologists, so but I'm just

1072
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: saying there are appropriate places for a mine. And even

1073
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: there are a bunch of minds being developed in Alaska.

1074
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: They're fine. It's just they're not in you know, sort

1075
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: of these amazing areas. And these presumably these amazing areas

1076
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:37,040
Speaker 1: too would be super cash cows for these huge energy groups.

1077
01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's not like this is the only

1078
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: place left. But they just by their projections, by their

1079
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: understanding of you know, the resource, they're like this would

1080
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: be major place. It's it's it's it's accepted as an

1081
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:56,920
Speaker 1: objective reality that pebble is the would be the largest

1082
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: gold mine in human history, so they would fight for it. Yeah,

1083
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 1: but you know, part of the problem is it's not

1084
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: a you know, like a solid gold seem like you'd

1085
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: find some places in other places. It's so spread out

1086
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 1: over such a large area. You have to churn up

1087
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,920
Speaker 1: so much habitat to produce that gold and copper that

1088
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: it's you know, that's where you get into the problem.

1089
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: So it's the you know the nature of the development

1090
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: as well. All right, well, let's keep I want to

1091
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: keep bumping along on our list wolves getting federally delisted.

1092
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: You have that you view this as a win with

1093
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 1: some caveats. But first, is this like is this real

1094
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: or like like no, as Biden gonna come in like

1095
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 1: just undo this. No, the obadministration proposed it too, blocked

1096
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: by the courts. So you don't think you don't think

1097
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: that you don't think that Biden will be like reflexively

1098
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: hostile to this idea, Well, I mean I would, I haven't.

1099
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:52,680
Speaker 1: I have not spoken anybody about it over there, but

1100
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: I doubt it because they did it in the Obama

1101
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: Biden administration before. Yeah, they proposed this and he got

1102
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 1: blocked by the courts. And you know, what we're trying

1103
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: to do is, you know, take this out of the

1104
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 1: political sphere and make it much more of the wildlife

1105
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: biologists controlling the decision, not the courts, not Congress, not

1106
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: ballot mission with someplace. And the only thing I don't

1107
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,959
Speaker 1: like about, you know, the most recent delisting, it's done

1108
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: the day before the election in Minnesota, a swing state,

1109
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: and you how do you look at that and not

1110
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: think it's political? And that just galvanized the opposition to it,

1111
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: and almost it works against our interests those of us

1112
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 1: like to see the wolf, do you listed? Yeah? You know,

1113
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: I actually, um well sometimes some other time I'll tell

1114
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: you a story about that timing, but um not not

1115
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: that's not for now. But okay, give me the caveats.

1116
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: So it's a win like so, so if you want

1117
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 1: to understand, it's gonna go, it's gonna go to the courts. Yeah,

1118
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: US Fish and Wildlife Service, we have uh trying to

1119
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: think it to what level of detail we want to

1120
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: get in here, CASSU where I mess up on this

1121
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: with but wolves were listed under the Endangered Species Act.

1122
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 1: They were listed like sort of across the Lower forty eight.

1123
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 1: One fell swoop, right. We we just listened like so

1124
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:08,520
Speaker 1: we didn't want to hit a lot. Didn't get we're

1125
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 1: not getting Alaska implicated in this because Alaska has wolves

1126
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: across historic range or something like that. Um, very you know,

1127
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:22,719
Speaker 1: thriving wolf populations. But they were listening to Lower forty eight. Later,

1128
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: when we kind of got a more detailed look at

1129
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: the problem, we realized that thinking about the Lower forty

1130
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: eight as a whole isn't a great way to try

1131
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: to manage wolves, um because we know that they're not

1132
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: going to be recovered in you know, downtown Denver, right, Like,

1133
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: it's not gonna happen. So we should look at like

1134
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 1: where could they be and where are they and kind

1135
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: of break up the map a little bit and talk

1136
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: about these different population groups. And so one of these

1137
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: population groups is the Northern Great Lakes, and so that's

1138
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:06,320
Speaker 1: wolf populations in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. Uh, you wind

1139
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 1: up there's all kinds of complexities in the law when

1140
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: you try to go after the fact and impose this

1141
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 1: logic of these distinct population segments like it creates a

1142
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: lot of ways for people to file lawsuits. That the

1143
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: fact that we didn't have that system in place when

1144
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: they were listed, and we tried to later come in

1145
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: and overlay this logic, um has created a lot of trouble.

1146
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,720
Speaker 1: So the Northern Great Lakes wolves have been you know,

1147
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: the US fish And while their service went and said

1148
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: it's time to delist them, that gets blocked in courts.

1149
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 1: That bounces back and forth. They have hunting and trapping seasons,

1150
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: Hunting and trapping seasons go away, then all of a

1151
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 1: sudden they were locked back up put on the endangered

1152
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: species list. And now they're saying, um that you know,

1153
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,520
Speaker 1: the outgoing I shouldn't time it with the outgoing administration.

1154
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: But they're now saying, all right, enough enough, we're does

1155
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:03,480
Speaker 1: delistened the whole damn deal again, and it'll almost certainly

1156
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 1: get all wrapped up in a bunch of lawsuits, almost certainly.

1157
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: But it's important to note that the like the the

1158
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:17,799
Speaker 1: Great Lakes, the Rocky Mountains, you know there, they've exceeded

1159
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: recovery goals for a long time. Like there's a reason

1160
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: why they're wanting to delist them. Yeah, but it's just

1161
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: so political and you you may well see, you know,

1162
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:30,719
Speaker 1: similar to what we've had to do in the Greater

1163
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: Yeloste ecosystem with Congress passing specific delisting legislation for the

1164
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: gray wolf there. My guests is you're probably have to

1165
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 1: see that again in the Great Lakes. And these are

1166
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:46,680
Speaker 1: these are well funded anti hunting groups that are have

1167
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: a long term strategy to keep this inside the courts.

1168
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: Is that is that true? Yeah, I think that's a

1169
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:55,800
Speaker 1: fair description. Yeah, and they do it like they kind

1170
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,760
Speaker 1: of if you look at the details of these lawsuits,

1171
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: they sort of skirt the issue. Um, They'll often they

1172
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: don't argue, uh, how many wolves there are, they don't

1173
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 1: argue that. It's like you need to when you're doing

1174
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: these lawsuits, you're sort of going after these, um you're

1175
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 1: pursuing technicalities. You'd be like, okay, so you have a

1176
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: listing plan, Well, we can prove that you didn't consider

1177
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: something of relevance. And you know, like it's motive, it's

1178
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: motivated by a very it's motivated by a desire. But

1179
01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: you take whatever little things you can get to try

1180
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:35,360
Speaker 1: to like hold it up within the court during procedural

1181
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: administrative issues. Those are the main ones that stick. Now.

1182
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: The irony is, of course, if you know wolves had

1183
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: been delisted, you wouldn't have to do a ballot initiative

1184
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 1: in Colorado. They could just go ahead and reintroduce them.

1185
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 1: Oh is that right? Oh yeah, huh. I really should

1186
01:11:49,880 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: know this. As a predator hunter, if wolves have been

1187
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,040
Speaker 1: on the endangered species lists, why can we hunt them

1188
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: in Idaho and in other places? Because you know there

1189
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 1: was the courts did not sing allowed those states to

1190
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: move forward, and you know that was all the Great States.

1191
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 1: You know, I think Wyoming may still be in litigation

1192
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:13,680
Speaker 1: about his plan, but you know that's been on and

1193
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,519
Speaker 1: off because Wyoming didn't have a robust a plan as

1194
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: the other states didn't. Oh no, they had, they had.

1195
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: I thought they were insane, but they're kind of in

1196
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:23,840
Speaker 1: the end one like Wyoming wanted to come in, Like

1197
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 1: all the states in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem came up

1198
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 1: with these management plans, right, and Wyoming came up with

1199
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: this management plan or they're basically saying, Okay, the area

1200
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 1: around the in the g y area, the area on Yellowstone,

1201
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: they'll be managed like as a big game animal. But

1202
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: then they took a huge chunk of the state and said,

1203
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: and here they'll be managed like coyotes. No bag limits,

1204
01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 1: no reporting structure, no closed season. And I thought that

1205
01:12:50,439 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 1: they were insane to try that approach and that they

1206
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: would never get there. And I was like, man, you're

1207
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: shooting yourself in the foot with that. But they stuck

1208
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:03,719
Speaker 1: it out, stuck to their guns, pun intended, and God,

1209
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,599
Speaker 1: despite what the Clintons wanted, God, despite the Clintons, they

1210
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: got what they were after. Um and and so I

1211
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: was I thought that was a pretty bold play on

1212
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: their part. But when when when in our list here

1213
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: delisting what you have some caveats, explain the caveats. Oh,

1214
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: I was just what I was saying is that you

1215
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 1: know this is not yes as good as it scenes,

1216
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: because I think it's going to go straight back into

1217
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,599
Speaker 1: the courts. So yeah, well hit hit again. I think

1218
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 1: that that that's the main caveat is that you don't

1219
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,680
Speaker 1: go out and buy a license tomorrow. Yeah, okay, but

1220
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: what about Mexican gray wolf protections? Yeah, I'm again, I'm

1221
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: not an expert down there. I'm not even gonna venture

1222
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: into it. Is there any solution to keep it out

1223
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 1: of the courts. I mean, it just seems like like

1224
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: the best arguments that we can come up with. I mean,

1225
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 1: is there going to have to be wolves running through

1226
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:59,559
Speaker 1: the streets of Chicago before the lawsuits? Just what I

1227
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,520
Speaker 1: think that you're gonna see, you know, probably congressional legislation

1228
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 1: on something like the Great Lakes population. That exactly when

1229
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 1: when you talk to when you talk to people who

1230
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,719
Speaker 1: are opposed to delisting wolves like wolf, like you know, Diard,

1231
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 1: wolf advocates that aren't aren't interested in a compromised solution.

1232
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,040
Speaker 1: They love to point out that we've only recovered wolves

1233
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 1: across the fraction of their range. Um they seldom considered, well, yeah,

1234
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,240
Speaker 1: but they're they're right, And I like to point out

1235
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 1: to them that we've only recovered elk across ten percent

1236
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: of their range. But we manage elk hunting and elk

1237
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: populations in a lot of places very effectively. But we

1238
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:48,560
Speaker 1: still don't have uh elk across the entire state of Nebraska,

1239
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: which historically we did. So it is possible to manage

1240
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:59,120
Speaker 1: a species as a renewable resource, as a game species,

1241
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,679
Speaker 1: while you're still pushing ahead with a broader recovery plan.

1242
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:16,679
Speaker 1: Because we do it all the damn time. Okay, gutting

1243
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:18,880
Speaker 1: the farm bill. Yeah, this is the farm bill is

1244
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,000
Speaker 1: a loss. Explain to people what the hell that what?

1245
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: What what the farm bill is? Yeah? So the farm Bill,

1246
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: he know, is the single largest conservation program in this country,

1247
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 1: six billion dollars annually to incentivize conservation on private lands,

1248
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 1: the conservation reserve program, you know, wetland areas, grassland areas,

1249
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, just restoring various types of habitats. But it

1250
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 1: unlike a lot of the environmental stuff we've talked about,

1251
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: like the Endangered Species Act, the the Farm Bill is

1252
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 1: all voluntary. It's all incentive based. So the ideas you

1253
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: give a farmer an incentive to enroll the land in

1254
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 1: a good conservation practice, and it's been incredibly successful. And

1255
01:15:58,160 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: just one of the areas, the one we focus on

1256
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: a lot is the Conservation Reserve program, which was really

1257
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:07,120
Speaker 1: created back in the nineteen eighties as essentially a supply

1258
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 1: management tool when during the farm crisis to get people

1259
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,439
Speaker 1: give money to farmers and have them set aside land

1260
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: so that they have money to in spite of really

1261
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: terrible markets. So in its height, you know, the farm

1262
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 1: Bill Conservations Deserve program about thirty seven million acres enrolled

1263
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: in it. And you know that's good for you know,

1264
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:30,719
Speaker 1: upland Burghs is good for deer, it's good for water quality,

1265
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: it benefits pretty much everything. Today, you know, that program

1266
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: is down to twenty point seven million acres. Give me

1267
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,639
Speaker 1: the number again, at its height twenty about thirty seven

1268
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:47,599
Speaker 1: million acres down to down to the lowest level today

1269
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,719
Speaker 1: is today is the lowest level we've seen really since

1270
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 1: the creation of the program, and that is twenty point

1271
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 1: seven million acres and we're expecting another probably three million

1272
01:16:57,680 --> 01:17:02,760
Speaker 1: acres to expire in twenty one. So and at the

1273
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 1: same time, we're giving I think you know, the last

1274
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: two years, we gave thirty billion dollars to farmers because

1275
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: the trade wars are going on with China and depressed markets.

1276
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: Is essentially a bailout, not asking to do anything. At

1277
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:19,559
Speaker 1: the same time, we're just starving the Conservation Reserve program

1278
01:17:19,680 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: and we're not offering enough in terms of rental rates,

1279
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 1: we're not offering enough the sentives for folks to get

1280
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: into the program. A. So you're seeing it basically, you know,

1281
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,880
Speaker 1: dying on the vine. Our farmers are farmers wanting to

1282
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 1: get involved, but they're just not sure. They just can't

1283
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 1: make the numbers work with the way they're trying to

1284
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,760
Speaker 1: fund it. Yeah, and they've you know, there's a lot

1285
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:40,840
Speaker 1: of interest to sign up for it, but when you're

1286
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 1: offering low Brunwald rights and minimal incentives to get in,

1287
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 1: you're not gonna have a whole lot of interests for

1288
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 1: folks to lock up their land for ten or twenty

1289
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 1: or whatever many years. So what are they doing? I mean,

1290
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: they're they're growing crops on that land and yeah, exactly,

1291
01:17:56,960 --> 01:18:00,080
Speaker 1: so they're tilling it and growing something and getting a

1292
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 1: bail up from Congress. So what we want to try

1293
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:06,640
Speaker 1: to do is really try to reincentivize that, you know,

1294
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,799
Speaker 1: the Farm Bill program, and have a much more honest

1295
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,679
Speaker 1: effort to get it implemented. And I think the Trump

1296
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:14,880
Speaker 1: administration has been a mixed bag. A lot of conservation

1297
01:18:14,920 --> 01:18:17,679
Speaker 1: areas good on things like Great American Outdoors Act, good

1298
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: on migration corvers, but they have been really bad in

1299
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 1: terms of conservation on private lands through the Farm Bill.

1300
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: What is it? What give me an argument against the

1301
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: Farm Bill? Like, well, what do they not like about

1302
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 1: the Farm Bill? It costs a lot of money. Yeah,

1303
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 1: but we have subsidies that cost a lot of money.

1304
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:36,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, I know. It ties the farmer's hands.

1305
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 1: It requires more effort to implement. It's it's easier to

1306
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,800
Speaker 1: write somebody a check and send it out there. And

1307
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:44,720
Speaker 1: if you have a Department of Agriculture or Office of

1308
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: Management or budget that doesn't really care about conservation, it's

1309
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,120
Speaker 1: not going to prioritize this. And you know, plus you

1310
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:53,799
Speaker 1: look at a program like the you know, conservation Reserve program.

1311
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: It's in the Farm Service Agency and not in the

1312
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 1: National Resource Conservation Service, and our c S wakes up

1313
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: every day thinking about conservation Farm Services f S A

1314
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:07,439
Speaker 1: does not. So again, it's not a high priority for

1315
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: the agency that administers it. Not a high priority for

1316
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 1: Sunny Purdue, not a high priority for you know, Nick

1317
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,719
Speaker 1: mulvanny and omb. So you know, it's a perfect storm

1318
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: of you know, just it's just not getting implemented. How

1319
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: has it? This is like a horrible generalization, But let's

1320
01:19:24,160 --> 01:19:28,840
Speaker 1: say I went out and found a random sampling. I

1321
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:35,879
Speaker 1: somehow pulled a random sampling of a hundred farmers, uh,

1322
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:38,040
Speaker 1: and I put to them, hey, what do you all

1323
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 1: think of the farm bill, And what do y'all think

1324
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:45,880
Speaker 1: of the CRP program? What am I going to hear back? Uh,

1325
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 1: you're probably the next bag. I think a lot of

1326
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:50,960
Speaker 1: them really like it because it provides seuple been an

1327
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:53,800
Speaker 1: income for areas that they may not want a farm,

1328
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,479
Speaker 1: or made me recognize that it's great to have pheasants

1329
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:58,600
Speaker 1: on there too, And then they could do a you know,

1330
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: walk in program and have extra money from hunting on

1331
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:03,640
Speaker 1: their property also. So I think the ones that have

1332
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: done it, I mean again, I think that if they

1333
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 1: were to do another enrollment and offer better incentives, you

1334
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: see widespread interests for you know, big sign ups. If

1335
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 1: you know it you started, Yeah, broody? How how do

1336
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:22,120
Speaker 1: you think how farming has changed plays a role here?

1337
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:26,599
Speaker 1: Like you have a lot more gigantic commercial fence defense

1338
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: farms that like there's not a tree anywhere, there's not

1339
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 1: a fallow field anywhere, and you've got a lot less

1340
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 1: small farms that traditionally had brush or fallow fields or

1341
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:42,679
Speaker 1: shelter belts or whatever. Like. Are those big giant commercial

1342
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 1: farms just less interested in being involved with this? Absolutely?

1343
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: And I think that when you had the you know,

1344
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 1: the old time you know, small farmer or even you know,

1345
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 1: the low person who lived on the land and cared

1346
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 1: about it and took real pride in it. You know,

1347
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,640
Speaker 1: that's very different than you know, when you basically contracted

1348
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:02,720
Speaker 1: out for somebody just to maximize profit of it. And

1349
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 1: I think that's part of what we're seeing. Um So, no,

1350
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:07,400
Speaker 1: I think that's part of it. At the same time,

1351
01:21:07,439 --> 01:21:10,320
Speaker 1: you know, technology is you know, with precision agriculture things

1352
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,680
Speaker 1: like that, you can be a lot smarter about how

1353
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: you farm. You can target areas that you may be

1354
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 1: more productive for you to grow soybeans or corn, and

1355
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, protect other areas that are much better use

1356
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:26,639
Speaker 1: being in a CRP land. So to simplify the issue,

1357
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 1: it's an issue of funding because the funding is there,

1358
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:34,920
Speaker 1: funding just is not being used. Okay, so, but why

1359
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:38,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't they offer more incentive through making the price super high,

1360
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:42,200
Speaker 1: like making it so they should advantageous were we were

1361
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: landing that that's what we want to have happened, and

1362
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 1: that's what's happened in the past. But if the farmer

1363
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, is not not being offered very much money,

1364
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 1: not being offered the incentive to get into it, and

1365
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 1: again Congress has made this money help let's sitting out there,

1366
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: it's just not being offered by the Department of Agriculture

1367
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 1: to the farmers. So that's about question where's the where's

1368
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:04,919
Speaker 1: the stop point for that price tag? Like who decides

1369
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: how much money is going per acre to those farmers

1370
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 1: because if if it was financially advantagious, they would do it. Yeah,

1371
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: obviously that various depending on where you are, because you know,

1372
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 1: one price doesn't fit all because different for you. So

1373
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,320
Speaker 1: there there are very local mechanisms to set those prices.

1374
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 1: But basically, you know, we want to have a program

1375
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: that is robust enough that folks want to get into

1376
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 1: it and they're willing to put decent land into it,

1377
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:32,760
Speaker 1: not a bunch of just marginal habitat that can't grow anything. So,

1378
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 1: you know, that's been one of my real frustrations is

1379
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: you know, just that the implementation of the farm bill,

1380
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:38,840
Speaker 1: because the last farm Bill was really good. I mean,

1381
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,040
Speaker 1: it dedicated a lot of money six billion dollars annually

1382
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: to conservation. You know, it dedicated more money to conservation

1383
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 1: than it did to basically traditional farm programs. And so

1384
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,400
Speaker 1: we we love that, and there's still a lot of

1385
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 1: really good programs in the Farm bill, but it just

1386
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:59,320
Speaker 1: needs to have, you know, a much stronger orientation towards

1387
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:02,840
Speaker 1: the implementation and making it work. Okay, what's the what's

1388
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: the ACE Act? So that's the Yeah, this is an

1389
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,080
Speaker 1: act that was passed, you know, this past year, the

1390
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 1: American Conservation Enhancement Act, huge win. It had I think

1391
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 1: six or seven different individual bills underneath it. Again the

1392
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,880
Speaker 1: idea that Congress passes big bills to have a lot

1393
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: of little components in it. It reauthorized in North American

1394
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: Wetland Conservation Act, reauthorized, National Fisher Wildlife Foundation authorized for

1395
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 1: the first time, National Fish Habitat Partnership Act, which has

1396
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:35,720
Speaker 1: been around administratively for a while but had never been

1397
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:40,600
Speaker 1: codified by Congress. Great Lakes program, Chest Peak Bay program,

1398
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: all really good you know, on the ground conservation programs.

1399
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 1: Who do we have to thank for? That was that bipartisan? Yep,

1400
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 1: very by partisan. It passed. I can't remember the exact

1401
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:54,959
Speaker 1: vote counts, but overwhelmingly, you know, not close. Martin Heinrich,

1402
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,000
Speaker 1: who you know, you know, worked really hard on that

1403
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:00,560
Speaker 1: variety of others, but no, it was you It was

1404
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:04,960
Speaker 1: very bipartisan. Very few people opposed it. It was again

1405
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: a place where they could come together. When when when

1406
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,400
Speaker 1: you're doing something like that and it is a bunch

1407
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 1: of stuff rolled together, is there a lot of in

1408
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,320
Speaker 1: fighting about trying to keep crazy stuff out that's just

1409
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: gonna want to that's going to turn people off. Yeah,

1410
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:18,840
Speaker 1: And that's one of the strategies of the folks that

1411
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:21,920
Speaker 1: are anti conservation. They'll try to get poison pills added

1412
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: just to things too. It kills the whole bill. So

1413
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: that is part of you know, the the art and

1414
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: science managing these bills when they're on the you know,

1415
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: the floor or you know, in committee and the Congress,

1416
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 1: they're in Senator of the House, is you know, just

1417
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,560
Speaker 1: keeping that silly stuff out of there and keeping the

1418
01:24:38,600 --> 01:24:41,320
Speaker 1: poison pills away. I mean, you know right, you know,

1419
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,080
Speaker 1: there was a lot of folks who wanted to see

1420
01:24:43,120 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: great lakes, you know, wolf delisting on that bill. It

1421
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 1: was just but it was you know, and we we

1422
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,599
Speaker 1: were one of them, but it was one of those

1423
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: things that could potentially derail that bill because of the

1424
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 1: vehemence of the opposition from some folks. So you're put

1425
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:00,040
Speaker 1: in a position where you gotta keep it clean in

1426
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,400
Speaker 1: order just to get the win. Yeah, listen, we would

1427
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 1: love to see a bunch of other stuff in there,

1428
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: but we'll take the good instead of the perfect. Yeah

1429
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:13,720
Speaker 1: you said, you said anti conservationists or anti conservation with

1430
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:17,479
Speaker 1: it being so bipartisan, who is this? I mean there

1431
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: are fringe elements. Uh you know that. You know, I

1432
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: don't like public lands. I mean we've talked about them.

1433
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:26,400
Speaker 1: They rail against them all the time. Who think that

1434
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 1: any money that's going to you know, conservation, Yeah, there

1435
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,639
Speaker 1: is a waste of money. Yeah. So it's a different

1436
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 1: orientation and they've sort of you know, you can do

1437
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:38,240
Speaker 1: a little you know, Google research and figre out who

1438
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 1: we're talking about. But yeah, there's a handful of members

1439
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: who just don't like this stuff and always fight against it.

1440
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: But they wouldn't describe themselves. Oh no, of course not.

1441
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:53,160
Speaker 1: How do they describe themselves that just like just unfettered, frugal,

1442
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, get the government out of this stuff. Government

1443
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 1: shouldn't be involved with this. Yeah. Yeah, So they either

1444
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,639
Speaker 1: use the libertarian coach or the you know, the definite

1445
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,679
Speaker 1: hawk approach when it suits their purposes. But they don't

1446
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: say I hate animals. No, No, Uh, they may say

1447
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:14,640
Speaker 1: I hate public lands. Oh no, I don't know that,

1448
01:26:14,720 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: but that that's getting like less and less tenable all

1449
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 1: the time. Though, man, you gotta yes, yes, it is

1450
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 1: thankfully so hippy with uh we have, as in the

1451
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:29,160
Speaker 1: lost column environmental rollbacks. Walk that through a little bit

1452
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 1: like like well, I mean, let's talk about the Clean

1453
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,599
Speaker 1: Water Act. So, you know, clean Water Act obviously, it

1454
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: was a product of the early nineteen seventies after we

1455
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: saw the Cuyahoga River cash on fire, and it is,

1456
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:45,320
Speaker 1: you know, fundamentally changed water quality in this country to

1457
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:48,640
Speaker 1: the point where the majority of our waters are now fishable, swimmable,

1458
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,640
Speaker 1: maybe not drinkable, but you know, still it's you know,

1459
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:54,720
Speaker 1: done an amazing job of cleaning your stuff up. Now,

1460
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,760
Speaker 1: the controversy has been to a large aread, not what

1461
01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: comes out of a tail pipe someplace or a sewer

1462
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 1: hype from a factory into a river. The issue is

1463
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 1: much more evolved into you know, say, open space and

1464
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: what is covered and what is not covered by the

1465
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 1: Clean Water Act. And there were two rulings by the

1466
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 1: Supreme Court back in the two thousand's, two thousand and

1467
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 1: four and two thousand seven. I believe that basically you know,

1468
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:22,479
Speaker 1: said Congress, you have needs to define what is and

1469
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:24,680
Speaker 1: what is not included in the Clean Water Act. Is

1470
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 1: a farm pond included? Is the irrigation ditch included? Is

1471
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 1: an ephemeral stream or you know, isolated wetland included? And

1472
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,200
Speaker 1: so it basically told Congress to do that. Congress never

1473
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:38,240
Speaker 1: took it up, is you know, it's too controversial. So

1474
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 1: you've had ministrations ever since defining it themselves. The Obama administration,

1475
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:45,799
Speaker 1: we thought, did a very good job with the Waters

1476
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: of the United States, which defined what was included in

1477
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 1: that in the overall navigable rivers standards. So you know,

1478
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: a heart strict reading of the Clean Water Acts as

1479
01:27:56,520 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 1: a navigate river is something you can actually you know,

1480
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:02,000
Speaker 1: flow the boat down. A much more scientific based reading

1481
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:04,320
Speaker 1: the statute is there are a lot of little streams

1482
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:08,479
Speaker 1: that impact or wetlands impact that navigable water directly that

1483
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 1: need to be included, because you know, that's not the

1484
01:28:10,960 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 1: way river's work is just protecting it and not any

1485
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: of the tributaries. So the administration set out a complex

1486
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 1: rulemaking process that basically laid out what was and what

1487
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:24,080
Speaker 1: is not included. It eliminated you know, any sort of

1488
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 1: coverage for things like farm ponds, irrigation ditches, conventional agricultural practices,

1489
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,600
Speaker 1: things like that. But it did protect headwater streams, wetlands,

1490
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 1: and even some isolated wetlands when there was a scientific justification.

1491
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 1: So incomes the Trump administration and proceeds to basically undo that,

1492
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:50,200
Speaker 1: eliminates all the protections for headwater streams and isolated wetlands.

1493
01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 1: So essentially decreased by fift The wetlands that are covered

1494
01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,759
Speaker 1: are protected by the Clean Water Act and probably decreased

1495
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 1: by maybe a quarter. You know, the stream miles are protected.

1496
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: And the rationale there is that. I mean, it basically

1497
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:10,160
Speaker 1: come down to job creation and industry right like making sure.

1498
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's not what that was some of the

1499
01:29:12,320 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 1: arguments they use and the heavy hand of government, and

1500
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: they always trot out a few horror stories where there

1501
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,680
Speaker 1: was indeed, you know, federal overreach and some port you know,

1502
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: dude that's just trying to build a farm shed or something,

1503
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, gets blocked by some evil person of the

1504
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 1: e p A. So you know, I mean there's you know,

1505
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 1: there have been abuses, no question, but it also argues

1506
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 1: for let's better define what is what is not included

1507
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 1: and our ideas, let's not define it so that you know,

1508
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:39,639
Speaker 1: half the wetlands in this country are no longer protected.

1509
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 1: And it's really you know, they trot the farmers out

1510
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: as the main you know, sort of victims and an

1511
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 1: overly robust Clean Water Act. Honestly, the way that the

1512
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 1: vulnerable is written, it was eliminated, you know, basically, it's

1513
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 1: not you know, if you have normal farm practices, farm ponds,

1514
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: irrigation ditches, those are not included in Clean Water Act.

1515
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:02,479
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that. But it's a lot easier trott a

1516
01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:04,640
Speaker 1: farmer out there and say, you know, you're trying to

1517
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 1: story my livelihood than a real estate developer out there

1518
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 1: who says you're going to block him, I being a

1519
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 1: mini mall that I want to put in. Yeah, you

1520
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:13,920
Speaker 1: do you feel that they could have had a better

1521
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:17,240
Speaker 1: way of fixing the problems. Congress needs to deal with us.

1522
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 1: So we have a situation now because Congress won't deal

1523
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:22,960
Speaker 1: with this. You know, you have different administrations are to

1524
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,599
Speaker 1: keep your genuflecting back and forth and pendulum is gonna

1525
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: back and forth. And if you're a developer, if you're

1526
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:30,640
Speaker 1: a landowner, if you're a farmer. You're never gonna have

1527
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 1: any source of certainty about what is and what is

1528
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 1: not covered. And listen, I have I completely agree with

1529
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 1: that uncertainty is a terrible thing. And we've been arguing

1530
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 1: that Congress, you know, Republicans, Democrats get together and decide

1531
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:46,640
Speaker 1: what is covered and do it, you know, statutorially, so

1532
01:30:46,720 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: that we don't have an administration just swinging back and

1533
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:54,440
Speaker 1: forth that we attacked by the of course all the time. Uh.

1534
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:59,879
Speaker 1: The lost column c w D as well, uh continues

1535
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:06,679
Speaker 1: to spread no real consensus from the sportsman community. Well,

1536
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean I think y'all listen, I mean, there are

1537
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,920
Speaker 1: some people that you pretend it's not out there. They're

1538
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: gonna be you know, the science deniers, but the majority

1539
01:31:13,479 --> 01:31:15,360
Speaker 1: of folks recognize it as a threat. I don't think

1540
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:18,960
Speaker 1: anyone pretends it's not out there, all right. Maybe they

1541
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 1: just they just say it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.

1542
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 1: It's never going to jump to humans, you know whatever.

1543
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:28,440
Speaker 1: You're not gonna see population impacts unless you replace like Wisconsin,

1544
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: we're seeing population impacts. So you know, I think that

1545
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: you know, prudence would dictate that we get on top

1546
01:31:34,640 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 1: of this, and uh, you know, we got five million

1547
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:39,320
Speaker 1: dollars appropriate to last year to go out to the

1548
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:42,439
Speaker 1: States to kick up surveillance and tests. Just peanuts, I mean,

1549
01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:45,000
Speaker 1: that's just peanuts. So we had fifteen million in the

1550
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 1: House bill that you know, the Senate cut down to

1551
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:50,600
Speaker 1: five and you know, I was piste, but five is

1552
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:52,680
Speaker 1: better than zero, which just was before that. Yeah, but

1553
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:56,680
Speaker 1: it's it's a joke. Yeah, it's a joke. But you know,

1554
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,759
Speaker 1: a Department Agriculture, you know, drags his feet and getting

1555
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:01,240
Speaker 1: the money out the door and then only gets to

1556
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 1: you about two and a half million out to the States,

1557
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 1: and the other is used for indemnity payments for captive farms,

1558
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 1: is used for genetic research and how he might be

1559
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 1: able to modify white tail deer and make him live

1560
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:15,600
Speaker 1: longer it will c w D, and is for administrative

1561
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 1: services you know, which nobody knows what that is. But

1562
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 1: basically just they paid for themselves. So you know, even

1563
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 1: of that piddling amount we got through Congress, only half

1564
01:32:23,600 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 1: of that actually made it out to the States, you know,

1565
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:29,040
Speaker 1: to expand surveillance and testing. So it's just you know,

1566
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 1: there is you know, the you know that basically Department

1567
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:36,759
Speaker 1: Agriculture has done a terrible job in terms of getting

1568
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 1: on top of this. Now I give Interior some credit

1569
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 1: because they've been pretty vocal about this, and we managed

1570
01:32:42,320 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 1: to get in the ACE Act that I talked about,

1571
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:49,120
Speaker 1: establishment by law of an inter agency Chronic Wasting Disease

1572
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:53,200
Speaker 1: Task Force, So Department of Agriculture, Department of the Interior,

1573
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, probably some other agencies to all get together

1574
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 1: and figure out how we're going to stop the spread

1575
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 1: of this thing. Is it ation was gonna be? What

1576
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,519
Speaker 1: needs to happen with in your opinion, I mean, do

1577
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 1: we need Like if we had all the money in

1578
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:08,759
Speaker 1: the world, what would we do. First of all, you

1579
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 1: you have to get control of the captive deer industry,

1580
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 1: which continues to be the biggest spread of this, even

1581
01:33:13,920 --> 01:33:16,120
Speaker 1: though they want to admit that. But any time you

1582
01:33:16,200 --> 01:33:17,760
Speaker 1: put you know, live deer in the back of a

1583
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:21,120
Speaker 1: truck and you drive them around the country swapping genetics,

1584
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,519
Speaker 1: you're moving disease, and so I would are. And also

1585
01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 1: we have to understand that the aphists the Department of Agriculture,

1586
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 1: you know, their herd Certification program, which is supposed to

1587
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,879
Speaker 1: sort of give you a stamp good housekeeping seal of approval.

1588
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:37,520
Speaker 1: If you have a you're applying by a certain standards,

1589
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,880
Speaker 1: you're CWD free and you're a good operator. It's been

1590
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,760
Speaker 1: a joke. I mean, you know, the keeps popping up

1591
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 1: in the certified low risk herds and it gives I

1592
01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 1: think producers, you know, a false sense of security. It

1593
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 1: gives regulators false sense of security. So what I would

1594
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 1: recommend is that there'd be a moratorium and any sort

1595
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 1: of interstate movement alive dear period until we can get

1596
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,439
Speaker 1: a decent heard certification program out there that we know

1597
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,760
Speaker 1: actually works. I don't trust the Department Agriculture to do that.

1598
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,720
Speaker 1: You need some sort of third party national Academy and

1599
01:34:08,760 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 1: Science is something like that to look at it and

1600
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:13,720
Speaker 1: make some recommendations as to how that can be reformed

1601
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:17,280
Speaker 1: so that this industry is part of solution, not part

1602
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:21,120
Speaker 1: of the problem. Now, what's this already in a wild

1603
01:34:21,200 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: herd like like it is widespread across North America? Does

1604
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:29,559
Speaker 1: that not even though we know it came from this

1605
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,679
Speaker 1: captive wildlife? Does that not? Listen, hunters have an issue

1606
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: problem here too. I mean, you know, and I think

1607
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:36,439
Speaker 1: you're bood of seeing a lot of the states have

1608
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:39,400
Speaker 1: put in you know, these prohibitions and moving carcasses across

1609
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: state lines, and that's a good step. Yeah, Yanni, you

1610
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,800
Speaker 1: did that video for us last year and show people

1611
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,360
Speaker 1: how they can bone out a deer. It's still on

1612
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 1: our website. Yeah, so that you have the tools, you

1613
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:51,800
Speaker 1: know too, if you're a hunter to not be part

1614
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 1: of that problem. You can have your deer tested. Um.

1615
01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: You know. But you know, especially during the pandemic and

1616
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 1: the government you know sort of you know fund in

1617
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,800
Speaker 1: crisis that state and local garments had been under, you've

1618
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:06,800
Speaker 1: seen a real decrease in testing and surveillance at the

1619
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:10,200
Speaker 1: state level, and you know, every single state agency has

1620
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:12,160
Speaker 1: got a hiring freeze on. You know, they had to

1621
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:16,280
Speaker 1: redeploy resources to other areas. You know, things like surveillance

1622
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: and testing, you know, have become a lower priority. So

1623
01:35:19,400 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: you're not hearing about as much right now because there's

1624
01:35:21,479 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 1: less testing going on than there has been in the past.

1625
01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:27,000
Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, we need to do more surveillance

1626
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:30,000
Speaker 1: and testing. We hunters have responsibility to be and if

1627
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,439
Speaker 1: state agency says, hey, go out and shoot a bunch

1628
01:35:32,479 --> 01:35:35,200
Speaker 1: of animals in this area and knocked the population down,

1629
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:37,680
Speaker 1: do it I mean they're trying to make sure that

1630
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:40,679
Speaker 1: you have your good hunting for years to come. Stay

1631
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:44,200
Speaker 1: like Illinois, which took it seriously and hunters were part

1632
01:35:44,240 --> 01:35:46,519
Speaker 1: of solution and went out and they whacked a lot

1633
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:48,400
Speaker 1: of deer in areas where it came in. They kept

1634
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 1: at background levels, whereas Wisconsin didn't take that approach, and

1635
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:55,639
Speaker 1: it's fift prevalence in a bunch of the state. Yeah,

1636
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:58,719
Speaker 1: I can't believe that now. Man like uh Doug Dern,

1637
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:01,479
Speaker 1: he talks about areas on there were guys on certain

1638
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 1: farms that he knows about where they're you know, they're

1639
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 1: getting their dear tests that there that their families are

1640
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:08,360
Speaker 1: hunting on their farms and they're running some of these

1641
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:12,160
Speaker 1: guys seventy of the deer their families are getting our

1642
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 1: CW depositive. Yeah, I mean, it's Wisconsin's ground. It's ground zero, man,

1643
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:22,680
Speaker 1: ground zero. Absolutely, It's like the few, the future is.

1644
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: The future is now in that place, man, yep. And

1645
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:29,520
Speaker 1: no no other state out there wants to be like Wisconsin.

1646
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 1: So give them the resources. You know they can't that

1647
01:36:32,360 --> 01:36:35,559
Speaker 1: they need to not be that state. All right, Let's

1648
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:39,320
Speaker 1: let's let's end on a win. Um with. Tell people

1649
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 1: to Manhattan men Haydan Manhattan man Hayden. It's also called

1650
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,560
Speaker 1: bunker or pogy depending on where you are, especially the

1651
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:50,800
Speaker 1: bottom of the food chain. Uh. In the Atlantic and

1652
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:53,759
Speaker 1: the Gulf of Mexico, everything eats you know, striped bass,

1653
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, red fish, eagles, whales, I mean, you name it.

1654
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: They eat it because it's a nasty, little oily ish Uh,

1655
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,320
Speaker 1: it looks like it. Maybe a shad is probably the

1656
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 1: closest thing I think about. Oh, you know they the

1657
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:15,240
Speaker 1: big one will be like fourteen inches long, some fifteen yeah, yeah.

1658
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 1: And they're filter feeders, so they have an environmental function too.

1659
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:19,599
Speaker 1: So in a place like the chest Week Bay which

1660
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:22,920
Speaker 1: has chronic water quality problems and as a breeding ground

1661
01:37:22,920 --> 01:37:25,320
Speaker 1: for man haitan, I mean more manhitan, you having there,

1662
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:27,640
Speaker 1: the better water quality you're gonna have. Yeah, same thing

1663
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 1: with oysters. But anyway, we have, you know, never done

1664
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,280
Speaker 1: a good job managing forage fish, the base of the

1665
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:35,679
Speaker 1: food chain. We manage them like we've done everything else,

1666
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:38,679
Speaker 1: which is, you know how many fish can you kill

1667
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:42,519
Speaker 1: before you crash the species? Instead of what does the

1668
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:45,240
Speaker 1: ecosystem need? And based on that, you know, how many

1669
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:48,160
Speaker 1: fish should can you kill them? And when I say,

1670
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like everybody get out there killing them.

1671
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:52,439
Speaker 1: There is one industry on the East Coast, and that's

1672
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: place called Omega Protein that catches these things and giant

1673
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 1: purse sayings, grinds them up, turns them into basically fish

1674
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 1: food for aquaculture salmon, you know in Canada. Huh so yeah,

1675
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:10,560
Speaker 1: so anyway they're using those fish to feed farm fish.

1676
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, so I thought there was I thought

1677
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,760
Speaker 1: there was a pet food component to this. Yeah, there

1678
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 1: might be. Yeah, but that's the reason that Cook You

1679
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,920
Speaker 1: Cook Industries bought Omega Protein. Cook is the big aquaculture

1680
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 1: operation up there, and obviously it's part of vertical integration.

1681
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:28,200
Speaker 1: So if you buy, you know, the company that makes

1682
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 1: your food, you're gonna be more profitable. So so what

1683
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: we finally got to do is, you know, the Atlanta

1684
01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:38,639
Speaker 1: States Marine Fisheries Commission, which regulates basically the non federal

1685
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 1: waters in anything three miles and in up and down

1686
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,679
Speaker 1: the East Coast for migratory fish including men haden, striped bass,

1687
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 1: blue fish, weak fish. You know, they finally changed the

1688
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:51,599
Speaker 1: way you know, they manage it to move from single

1689
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:55,599
Speaker 1: species management ecosystem management, and they adopted that unanimously this summer,

1690
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:59,040
Speaker 1: and then in the fall they came together and you know,

1691
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 1: basically did the first catch Lin's based on the new

1692
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:04,559
Speaker 1: model and reduced the man haden harvest by ten Now,

1693
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:06,599
Speaker 1: their science show that should have been reduced by eighteen,

1694
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: but at least ten percent to step in the right direction.

1695
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:12,720
Speaker 1: So I say that's a win because you've had a

1696
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,439
Speaker 1: basically a fundamental sea change of how we managed the

1697
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:18,639
Speaker 1: bottom of the food chain, which helps every predator out there.

1698
01:39:20,520 --> 01:39:23,760
Speaker 1: Uh well, that ten percent allow the fish to start

1699
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:26,639
Speaker 1: to recover your thing. Oh yeah, and we're already seeing

1700
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,639
Speaker 1: they had a reduction a few years ago. We're already

1701
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:32,599
Speaker 1: seeing more menhdan out there we have before me. I've

1702
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:34,519
Speaker 1: got a guy who works for us, you know, in

1703
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:37,120
Speaker 1: Long Island, and he was saying there, at some points

1704
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:39,559
Speaker 1: this summer there were schools that ran basically from Montalk

1705
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,760
Speaker 1: all the way down to Fire Island, And for those

1706
01:39:41,800 --> 01:39:43,800
Speaker 1: of these who are familiar Long Island geography, that's a

1707
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,600
Speaker 1: long way. And you had everything in their feeding on

1708
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:50,320
Speaker 1: the whales, blue fin, tuna, you know, stripe, bask galore.

1709
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 1: And so we're already see starting to see him come back.

1710
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:56,320
Speaker 1: And but they're saying right now that the current Manhaden

1711
01:39:56,360 --> 01:40:00,559
Speaker 1: harvest reduced the stripe bass populations by about that's right.

1712
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:02,680
Speaker 1: Bass is the number one recreational you know fish in

1713
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,960
Speaker 1: the country salt water. And there's gonna be some science

1714
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:08,600
Speaker 1: coming out of the Gulf of Mexico where we have

1715
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 1: even a bigger industry. Menhadan industry and two players, you know,

1716
01:40:12,439 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 1: Daybrook is the South African company, and Cook which is

1717
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,640
Speaker 1: the Canadian company. And the resource is going to come

1718
01:40:18,640 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 1: out of the University of Florida. It's already out there

1719
01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:23,240
Speaker 1: in draft is showing that there's about a fifty percent

1720
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: production in you know, redfish and sea trout due to

1721
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:31,639
Speaker 1: the current Manhaden harvest down there. There's also some meaning

1722
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:37,080
Speaker 1: meaning that there's these researchers are saying that the due

1723
01:40:37,080 --> 01:40:43,640
Speaker 1: to this Manhaydan harvest. Yeah, they're seeing a like in

1724
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:47,200
Speaker 1: our own lifetimes. Oh yeah, no there, if you didn't

1725
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:52,639
Speaker 1: have that harvest, you'd have more redfish and sea trout

1726
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:56,880
Speaker 1: than you do now. And this industry is growing substantially.

1727
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,000
Speaker 1: They're planning on growing another fift pent and there's anecdote

1728
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 1: of information out there too. That tarpen or directly impacted

1729
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:05,640
Speaker 1: by this harvest too, because tarpin will follow them at

1730
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:10,040
Speaker 1: hayding around. That's a that's a tasty meal for a tarpan. Huh.

1731
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:15,120
Speaker 1: So these guys, these these commercial harvesters, like these industrial harvesters,

1732
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:20,639
Speaker 1: they might be um seeing some reductions in their harvest

1733
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:23,800
Speaker 1: quotas coming up in the Gulf too, maybe, But the

1734
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 1: Gulf is a while west out there. You know, it

1735
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:29,320
Speaker 1: is a bigger industry. You've got two players. There are

1736
01:41:29,320 --> 01:41:31,720
Speaker 1: no catch limits in place. There's a voluntary agreement. There

1737
01:41:31,720 --> 01:41:34,919
Speaker 1: are no hard catch limits in place. Unlike in the Atlantic,

1738
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 1: where the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission actually has legislative

1739
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:42,320
Speaker 1: authority to manage it, Golf States Marine Fisheries Commission doesn't.

1740
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,439
Speaker 1: So there's not even a mechanism right now for them

1741
01:41:45,479 --> 01:41:50,040
Speaker 1: to reduce harvests and mandate mandated. Another issue is the

1742
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:53,280
Speaker 1: pogey boats in the Gulf. Yeah, there are more and

1743
01:41:53,320 --> 01:41:57,000
Speaker 1: more conflicts with recreational anglers because they will come right

1744
01:41:57,040 --> 01:42:00,000
Speaker 1: in on the you know, the beaches and catching them.

1745
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:02,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if you're in there, catch you fishing

1746
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 1: for them. They will come in there and push you

1747
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:06,679
Speaker 1: off and you know, hit that school, and they're also

1748
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 1: tearing up a lot of the barrier islands we've been

1749
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:13,000
Speaker 1: working on restoring down there after Katrina, So they're causing

1750
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:16,880
Speaker 1: environmental damage there. You know, direct conflicts, recreational anglers, and

1751
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:21,920
Speaker 1: there's the direct conflict, the direct impacts on sport fish

1752
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:26,360
Speaker 1: throughout the Gulf. This was in the wind column. Well,

1753
01:42:26,360 --> 01:42:30,439
Speaker 1: the Atlantic is in the Gulf. Were haven't even gotten

1754
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:32,639
Speaker 1: started there. I mean, that's gonna be the next frontier.

1755
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:34,599
Speaker 1: We're gonna get engaged. We're gonna go down there. We're

1756
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,280
Speaker 1: gonna try to get common sense regulations and listen, you

1757
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:40,080
Speaker 1: can still have a big reduction industry down there. It

1758
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 1: is a really fertile you know, Gulf of Mexico and

1759
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: you can eat, but you ought to stop the industry

1760
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:49,320
Speaker 1: where it is now at a minimum. Don't let it

1761
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:52,320
Speaker 1: grow another fift you know, push him off the beaches

1762
01:42:52,360 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 1: where we have all the conflicts and recreational anglers. So

1763
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:58,559
Speaker 1: there are things you can do that, honestly, I think

1764
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 1: in the end would work for everybody. But you know,

1765
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:03,680
Speaker 1: the status quo is not sustainable long term. So it's

1766
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:06,519
Speaker 1: like when part one. Yeah, so like at the end,

1767
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:08,400
Speaker 1: of the first Star Wars. They blow up the thing,

1768
01:43:08,479 --> 01:43:09,960
Speaker 1: but then all of a sudden, you got the Empire

1769
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:14,720
Speaker 1: strikes back. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Coincidentally, I just

1770
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:18,000
Speaker 1: got an email with like a half dozen beautiful pictures

1771
01:43:18,080 --> 01:43:20,639
Speaker 1: of a humpback feeding on men Hayden off a cape

1772
01:43:20,680 --> 01:43:24,600
Speaker 1: lookout in North Carolina. This is a I'm no fish bologist,

1773
01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:26,000
Speaker 1: but I was gonna say it sounds to me like

1774
01:43:26,040 --> 01:43:30,679
Speaker 1: the whales are part of the problem here. Oh honestly,

1775
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:33,240
Speaker 1: people care, I mean, the general public and large care

1776
01:43:33,280 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 1: is a lot more about the whales. They do about right,

1777
01:43:35,920 --> 01:43:40,240
Speaker 1: So there there there are of It sounds to me

1778
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:44,719
Speaker 1: like we need less whales. We want more man Hayden,

1779
01:43:44,800 --> 01:43:47,760
Speaker 1: we want more whales. Okay, I got it backwards, I

1780
01:43:47,800 --> 01:43:51,439
Speaker 1: got I understand that. All right, Well, what one last thing?

1781
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: We got time for one last thing? Yeah? Can you

1782
01:43:53,240 --> 01:43:56,960
Speaker 1: can you? Uh all right? Are you ready to I

1783
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:59,120
Speaker 1: thought you forgot all about my book report? No, man,

1784
01:43:59,160 --> 01:44:01,160
Speaker 1: what we gotta here? Yeah? His book report? Man, he

1785
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 1: threw mine into the first and I was just like, jump, well,

1786
01:44:04,520 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: because we're trying to um it's hard to explain. I

1787
01:44:10,240 --> 01:44:13,639
Speaker 1: didn't know how long we need for wit we got

1788
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:17,320
Speaker 1: Joanni's gonna Johnny's gonna redeem this sec Well, here's the thing.

1789
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:19,680
Speaker 1: Here's the thing is, I didn't know how long I

1790
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 1: was gonna take for wit we got through the list.

1791
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:29,960
Speaker 1: I had wrote a scathing email to Yanni about his

1792
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:33,639
Speaker 1: not telling me whether or not he was prepared to deliver,

1793
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:37,160
Speaker 1: and so then for me to not get to it

1794
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:39,360
Speaker 1: would lead him to think that he could do a

1795
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:42,280
Speaker 1: bad job and not even get caught. You know, I've

1796
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:45,679
Speaker 1: actually got two of them stacked up that we've talked

1797
01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 1: about doing prior and haven't gotten to him. So we

1798
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:51,040
Speaker 1: we have some already ready for the next time. It's

1799
01:44:51,080 --> 01:44:53,400
Speaker 1: chef's choice. So you can do whatever a little, you

1800
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:55,840
Speaker 1: can do whatever book report you want. Well, now I'm

1801
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:57,559
Speaker 1: gonna do the one that I worked on today because

1802
01:44:57,640 --> 01:45:10,840
Speaker 1: it's fresh in my head for sure. Report all right,

1803
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:17,080
Speaker 1: this story. Interestingly, I think to me, when I pulled

1804
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:20,120
Speaker 1: up the map that was associated with this story, I

1805
01:45:20,120 --> 01:45:25,479
Speaker 1: immediately saw I'm like, yeah, that's why that's why I

1806
01:45:25,479 --> 01:45:27,680
Speaker 1: thought you'd be good at this, because it's like a

1807
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:32,320
Speaker 1: little bit close to home. Yeah, totally, no little if

1808
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:35,799
Speaker 1: if If regal Avia, so you know where because everybody

1809
01:45:35,800 --> 01:45:38,759
Speaker 1: knows where regal Avia is. If that was the center

1810
01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 1: of the clock, this story takes place about um, five

1811
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:50,680
Speaker 1: miles northwest, no, sorry, seven miles northwest ten o'clock from

1812
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 1: the Senate from the center of the clock. Um. In

1813
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:56,639
Speaker 1: my opinion, it's a high likelihood that I probably share

1814
01:45:56,680 --> 01:45:58,960
Speaker 1: blood with some of the same hunters that left these

1815
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:03,880
Speaker 1: artifacts I'm gonna talk about in this story. UM. Yeah,

1816
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:05,600
Speaker 1: I might as well be doing a biography of my

1817
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 1: family here. I wrote that today. Um yeah. It's like

1818
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm your new Eastern Northern European correspondent here for Meat Eater,

1819
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:19,720
Speaker 1: So you have to keep coming up with stories that

1820
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 1: I can do reports on from the zone of the world.

1821
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:25,679
Speaker 1: All right. The it's a net Geo article titled six

1822
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:30,639
Speaker 1: thousand years of arrows emerge from melting Norwegian ice patch.

1823
01:46:31,360 --> 01:46:36,920
Speaker 1: Love it? Yeah, interesting enough. Um. The first artifact that

1824
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:40,160
Speaker 1: was found here was a three thousand, three hundred year

1825
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:44,080
Speaker 1: old shoe that was found in two thousand six. That's

1826
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 1: kind of what tipped everybody off to like ice patch archaeology, right, Like,

1827
01:46:49,080 --> 01:46:51,479
Speaker 1: wasn't a thing I guess up until then, Right, and

1828
01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:54,000
Speaker 1: somebody finds a shoe sticking out of this ice patch

1829
01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:56,080
Speaker 1: and they start paying attention, and they also start paying

1830
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:58,559
Speaker 1: attention to ice patches all across the world because stuff

1831
01:46:58,560 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 1: that's been buried under this ice is now like because

1832
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:03,880
Speaker 1: it's all melting at a pretty alarming rate. Everybody always

1833
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:07,679
Speaker 1: says alarming rate. Yeah, I don't know if it's alarming

1834
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:09,400
Speaker 1: or not. I mean, if you look back at history,

1835
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,439
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of melts and freeze and thoughts.

1836
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:15,400
Speaker 1: What is alarming, I'll point out, is that it might

1837
01:47:15,439 --> 01:47:19,320
Speaker 1: not be good for us to live on this planet

1838
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:23,920
Speaker 1: if it containues down this path. Right. People always say, oh,

1839
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:26,880
Speaker 1: poor mother Earth. I don't, I don't. I don't pity

1840
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:28,839
Speaker 1: her at all. I think she can shrug her shoulders

1841
01:47:29,120 --> 01:47:31,080
Speaker 1: get rid of us, and she'll keep on spinning around

1842
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:33,519
Speaker 1: the sun for quite some time. Um, it just might

1843
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:35,640
Speaker 1: not work out so good for us. Hey, can you

1844
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 1: clarify that these aren't glaciers. I was just gonna point

1845
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,879
Speaker 1: out that an ice patch is different from a glacier,

1846
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:48,120
Speaker 1: which is basically a slow moving river of frozen ice.

1847
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 1: That's a glacier and ice ice patch is just a

1848
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:58,960
Speaker 1: deposit of water which then freezes and forms, and it

1849
01:47:59,040 --> 01:48:02,559
Speaker 1: can grow bigger and smaller you know, depending on what

1850
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,320
Speaker 1: average temperatures are doing. I didn't know that, but it

1851
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:08,920
Speaker 1: doesn't move. Yeah, it sounds like normal ice to me.

1852
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:12,840
Speaker 1: What was the shoe that came out of it? What

1853
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:19,160
Speaker 1: was the man? There? Weren't any details about that shoe, um,

1854
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:21,639
Speaker 1: but a couple of interesting things that they I mean,

1855
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:24,360
Speaker 1: obviously we're interested in it more because of like these

1856
01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,240
Speaker 1: I think there was a total sixties some arrows that

1857
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:31,960
Speaker 1: popped out of here, right, And they figured that at

1858
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 1: time they could look kind of because from radio carbon dating,

1859
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: so they could like date each arrow and they can say, oh, this,

1860
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:41,120
Speaker 1: these ten arrows were here from two thousand years ago,

1861
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,160
Speaker 1: and then these fifteen were from six thousand years ago,

1862
01:48:44,240 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 1: and they can radio carbon date the antlers and bones

1863
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 1: and other things that they found at this ice patch

1864
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:51,240
Speaker 1: and sort of figure out how, you know, when the

1865
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:54,920
Speaker 1: hunters were there, you know, how much they were dealing

1866
01:48:54,960 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 1: with or what were they doing with the animals, because

1867
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:00,839
Speaker 1: they found times where there was a whole bunch of bones,

1868
01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 1: uh and arrows, right, indicating that sort of like they're

1869
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:08,200
Speaker 1: they're hunting, and they're there and they're killing stuff, right.

1870
01:49:08,240 --> 01:49:10,160
Speaker 1: But there's other times there's a whole bunch of bones

1871
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:14,840
Speaker 1: but no arrows. And I don't know, this seems kind

1872
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:16,800
Speaker 1: of a stretch and I don't know if it's the

1873
01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:23,000
Speaker 1: researchers is doing this assuming, but they're saying that, well,

1874
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: just at that time, it was just wolverines killing all

1875
01:49:25,320 --> 01:49:28,519
Speaker 1: these rain beer and stashing them, huh, which they do.

1876
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: It seems like there had to be a lot of

1877
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:34,599
Speaker 1: wolverines right around there doing this in the same spot. Yeah,

1878
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:36,720
Speaker 1: same spot, which I want to get to about the

1879
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:40,360
Speaker 1: spot and ask you guys a question here in a second.

1880
01:49:40,439 --> 01:49:43,120
Speaker 1: But there's other times where the inverse was there, right,

1881
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:45,840
Speaker 1: like a lot of arrows but no bones. And they

1882
01:49:45,880 --> 01:49:49,639
Speaker 1: just figured that at that time the humans were taking

1883
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 1: like literally using more of the animal or using all

1884
01:49:52,479 --> 01:49:54,560
Speaker 1: of it and taking it off the mountain where this

1885
01:49:54,640 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 1: because this ice patches at high elevation, right, so instead

1886
01:49:57,560 --> 01:50:01,480
Speaker 1: of maybe just taking some meat, that actually making bones antlers,

1887
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:04,680
Speaker 1: and for for whatever reason, they were going to use

1888
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,080
Speaker 1: it for you know, making things, trading, whatever it might be.

1889
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:13,960
Speaker 1: But he also makes the assumption that because they found

1890
01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:17,120
Speaker 1: like a point that was made out of iron, there

1891
01:50:17,160 --> 01:50:19,879
Speaker 1: was a point that was made out of a sharpened

1892
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:22,640
Speaker 1: muscle shell from a river like fifty miles away and

1893
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,000
Speaker 1: then there was a stone point there. So the guy says, well,

1894
01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:30,080
Speaker 1: even though there uh technology changed, they still kept their

1895
01:50:30,120 --> 01:50:34,519
Speaker 1: same hunting techniques. And I'm like, yeah, and he's just

1896
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:38,160
Speaker 1: saying technique as in because it's all in the same spot, right,

1897
01:50:38,600 --> 01:50:40,760
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that's necessarily like a technique.

1898
01:50:40,760 --> 01:50:44,080
Speaker 1: They were like hunting a zone that had animals, right,

1899
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:47,600
Speaker 1: but like they're just returning to the same spot. It's like,

1900
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,360
Speaker 1: I don't look at that as the same technique you're

1901
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:53,559
Speaker 1: talking about that they were using archery equipment though, I mean,

1902
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 1: was that what he was referring to. They could have

1903
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:02,879
Speaker 1: used something different maybe. Yeah, he said that honing techniques

1904
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:05,439
Speaker 1: stayed the same even as the weapons that used evolved

1905
01:51:05,479 --> 01:51:08,920
Speaker 1: from stone and rivershell arrowheads to iron points. Yeah. I

1906
01:51:08,920 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 1: think that's him saying they just showed back up in

1907
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:14,400
Speaker 1: the same spot year after over hundreds of year. Well,

1908
01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:17,599
Speaker 1: here's my question to you guys, the whole old site

1909
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:25,280
Speaker 1: of it. If you were shooting old delta points, you

1910
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:27,439
Speaker 1: go upen on a spot and you're shooting old delta points,

1911
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:31,280
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, like razorbacks come out and

1912
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:34,479
Speaker 1: you start shooting razorbacks up in that same spot. Then

1913
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:37,559
Speaker 1: a while later, mechanicals come out and you start shooting

1914
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 1: mechanicals up in that spot. And then like single bevels

1915
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:45,800
Speaker 1: come out and you start shooting those up in that spot. Uh.

1916
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:49,559
Speaker 1: I think that you could safely say that this dude's

1917
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,920
Speaker 1: technique stayed the same, but his his ship kept changing around,

1918
01:51:54,439 --> 01:52:00,479
Speaker 1: his tools just changed. Okay, I don't know, all right,

1919
01:52:00,680 --> 01:52:08,960
Speaker 1: I'll take now why uh? Why do you think it's

1920
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:13,320
Speaker 1: an ice patch on top of a mountain right in Norway?

1921
01:52:13,400 --> 01:52:15,840
Speaker 1: Like I'm going to cut you off of the gap.

1922
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:20,040
Speaker 1: He had a food plot there? Well? What But that

1923
01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:25,680
Speaker 1: is the question why there? Why they're what drew the

1924
01:52:25,720 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: animals there? Do you know the answer? Yes? The saddle saddle? No? No,

1925
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:34,000
Speaker 1: if there's ice there, there was water. There's a water

1926
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:39,720
Speaker 1: hole when the climate was much dryer. Maybe any other

1927
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:46,400
Speaker 1: gases us pass. I'll give you. I'll give you a tip.

1928
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 1: They were always hunting there in the summer calving area. Maybe,

1929
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:55,559
Speaker 1: but that's not what this article said. Not at the

1930
01:52:55,560 --> 01:53:00,280
Speaker 1: research said oh they're avoiding bugs, yes, get away from there,

1931
01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:07,640
Speaker 1: and that we don't really get to apply that ambush

1932
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:13,080
Speaker 1: speculative man oh, come on, they do. Now we know

1933
01:53:13,200 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 1: that you can in the summertime, you can go anywhere,

1934
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:18,680
Speaker 1: and you know the high Arctic, and that's where you

1935
01:53:18,720 --> 01:53:22,479
Speaker 1: find them. We talk about that's what the dudes were

1936
01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 1: I thought you meant that's what the dudes were doing. No,

1937
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:28,479
Speaker 1: I totally agree, because when you go out in the

1938
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:31,240
Speaker 1: in the mountains, the caribou in August are always laying

1939
01:53:31,320 --> 01:53:32,799
Speaker 1: up in a snow pile on top of a mountain.

1940
01:53:33,439 --> 01:53:39,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, okay, I mean they literally are laying in

1941
01:53:40,000 --> 01:53:44,599
Speaker 1: snow patches on the north side of peaks. I totally

1942
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:48,160
Speaker 1: buy that this is a good book report. I was

1943
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 1: gonna give a bad grade when he kind of messed

1944
01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:54,599
Speaker 1: up that technique's part, But I don't know. I think

1945
01:53:54,600 --> 01:53:56,760
Speaker 1: you should read the story and decide for yourself, because

1946
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 1: I think he was kind of leading me to the

1947
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 1: wrong way. Um. So that's kind of the interesting stuff

1948
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 1: about the hunting. What the researchers sort of like their

1949
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:08,479
Speaker 1: big takeaway, and that the takeaway from this article is

1950
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:11,160
Speaker 1: that they're hoping that the ice patch would be like

1951
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:15,120
Speaker 1: this perfect time machine, right where if something was like

1952
01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:19,400
Speaker 1: the last the thing that was the oldest, everybody thought

1953
01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:22,679
Speaker 1: would be buried the deepest or be at the center

1954
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,360
Speaker 1: and most part of this ice patch, right, and then

1955
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:27,920
Speaker 1: things that later in time would come in there would

1956
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:30,840
Speaker 1: be sort of sort of the outer ends. But after

1957
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:34,200
Speaker 1: this discovering them being a radio carbon date sixty plus arrows,

1958
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:40,120
Speaker 1: they're finding out that's completely not not the case. And

1959
01:54:40,120 --> 01:54:43,560
Speaker 1: they're just guessing that underneath the surface because of melting

1960
01:54:44,240 --> 01:54:48,000
Speaker 1: and movement, that uh, it could be like like that

1961
01:54:48,080 --> 01:54:50,440
Speaker 1: the water melted a little bit and then and then

1962
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:54,040
Speaker 1: a you know, little river, a little stream carried an

1963
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:59,520
Speaker 1: arrow to yeah, and it's also getting torn up and mangled.

1964
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,040
Speaker 1: And then if it's let's say, something like a light

1965
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 1: arrow shaft all of a sudden appeared on the surface,

1966
01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:07,280
Speaker 1: the wind could very easily blow it to the edge,

1967
01:55:07,320 --> 01:55:10,360
Speaker 1: right or blow it right off of it. Full jackets,

1968
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:13,080
Speaker 1: full metal jackets are on the bottom. Yeah, they were

1969
01:55:13,120 --> 01:55:17,280
Speaker 1: expecting like a layer cake of arrow technology exactly what

1970
01:55:17,720 --> 01:55:20,840
Speaker 1: Just like alogists digging in the dirt, right, you're gonna

1971
01:55:20,880 --> 01:55:23,560
Speaker 1: expect the oldest stuff to be towards the bottom. How big?

1972
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:30,480
Speaker 1: How big is this uh ice patch? Uh? Sixty acres?

1973
01:55:30,680 --> 01:55:35,280
Speaker 1: I believe I have a great way to visualize that

1974
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:39,520
Speaker 1: because I grew up on a sixty acre lake, so

1975
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:41,400
Speaker 1: it's just about the size. Just for you people at

1976
01:55:41,400 --> 01:55:43,160
Speaker 1: home listening, it's about the size of the lake where

1977
01:55:43,160 --> 01:55:46,320
Speaker 1: I grew up. I bet they'll find a bunch of

1978
01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:51,240
Speaker 1: your stuff there one day. You ought to drop a

1979
01:55:51,400 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 1: signed copy of the Wilderness Skills and Survival Book down

1980
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:57,800
Speaker 1: there and like a ziplock bag. I'll tell you what, Man,

1981
01:55:57,840 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot they will there's a lot of my stuff,

1982
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:03,440
Speaker 1: like the bottle at Lake man Um. I'll close with

1983
01:56:03,480 --> 01:56:07,200
Speaker 1: this to them. It is melting at an alarming rate.

1984
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:09,920
Speaker 1: Not so much because I don't think they're worried about

1985
01:56:09,960 --> 01:56:13,360
Speaker 1: the uh, you know, the planet melting and blowing up

1986
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:16,800
Speaker 1: or whatever, but because they know that they only have

1987
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: today's technology and today's techniques to figure out what they're

1988
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:23,680
Speaker 1: seeing and what to do with it, and it's all

1989
01:56:23,680 --> 01:56:25,680
Speaker 1: coming at them very rapidly, and they're just hoping that

1990
01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:27,800
Speaker 1: they can do the best they can, you know, in

1991
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:30,000
Speaker 1: the moment. Yeah, I want to I want to throw

1992
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:37,760
Speaker 1: a little archaeological archaeology anthropology tidbitten here. Um our, Our

1993
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:41,360
Speaker 1: understandings and technologies change all the time, and there's this

1994
01:56:41,400 --> 01:56:46,560
Speaker 1: thing in modern day archaeology where they'll find some big camp. Right,

1995
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 1: Let's say this camp is, you know, an acre in size.

1996
01:56:51,880 --> 01:56:54,480
Speaker 1: They would be like, you know, you're tempted to go

1997
01:56:54,480 --> 01:56:56,320
Speaker 1: and dig the whole thing up right, see what it

1998
01:56:56,440 --> 01:56:59,560
Speaker 1: all is in there. But they're like, they know that

1999
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:02,520
Speaker 1: just in ten years time, twenty years time, our questions

2000
01:57:02,520 --> 01:57:04,560
Speaker 1: are going to be different, our methods are going to

2001
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:07,640
Speaker 1: be different. So they'll take a little chunk and do

2002
01:57:07,680 --> 01:57:12,880
Speaker 1: a little chunk now, knowing that they're leaving tons for

2003
01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:18,120
Speaker 1: future generations to go in and do what they need

2004
01:57:18,120 --> 01:57:21,960
Speaker 1: to do with it. The Folsom site which I talked

2005
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:24,400
Speaker 1: about all the time, when they first dug the Folsom site,

2006
01:57:24,400 --> 01:57:27,160
Speaker 1: which is the ice Age kill site where some hunters

2007
01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:31,760
Speaker 1: killed some ice h bison. When they went in there first,

2008
01:57:31,800 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 1: they just wanted to find big bones and big projectile points,

2009
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:39,200
Speaker 1: and they dug the whole damn thing. Later, when people

2010
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 1: started realizing that you could look at pollen counts to

2011
01:57:42,240 --> 01:57:44,920
Speaker 1: figure out what the climate was like, and that there

2012
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:47,560
Speaker 1: was all these other food items to search for, and

2013
01:57:47,560 --> 01:57:51,040
Speaker 1: that you could you know, pursue all these different avenues

2014
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:54,960
Speaker 1: of discovery, they had to go to those people's debris pile,

2015
01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,120
Speaker 1: so they had to go dig through all the garbage

2016
01:57:59,120 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 1: at the first are geologists left behind to try to

2017
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:04,960
Speaker 1: see what they could discover. And it was like, imagine

2018
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:07,640
Speaker 1: if those guys had just taken a little chunk and

2019
01:58:07,720 --> 01:58:10,520
Speaker 1: took a look, and then a hundred years later, other

2020
01:58:10,640 --> 01:58:12,560
Speaker 1: dudes they had a way different idea about how to

2021
01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:17,480
Speaker 1: go about it, had their little chunk to share. Um.

2022
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:22,080
Speaker 1: So what these boys are saying is that, uh, that's

2023
01:58:22,080 --> 01:58:27,000
Speaker 1: not gonna work. It's all it's all happening right now. Yeah,

2024
01:58:27,760 --> 01:58:32,000
Speaker 1: coming coming right to the surface. Thank you Nie, you're olcome.

2025
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:37,160
Speaker 1: That's a great little report. Uh and thank you with

2026
01:58:37,520 --> 01:58:39,840
Speaker 1: for coming on. Tell people how to find tr CP

2027
01:58:41,160 --> 01:58:45,760
Speaker 1: tr CP dot org, come on, love to have you involved. Yeah, Um,

2028
01:58:46,120 --> 01:58:48,960
Speaker 1: you can go in if you want to help tr CP.

2029
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:54,640
Speaker 1: Tell them the tr CP slogan, the war cry guaranteeing

2030
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:57,640
Speaker 1: all Americans quality places hunting fish. If you want to

2031
01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:03,360
Speaker 1: get on that train. You can make a donation to

2032
01:59:03,440 --> 01:59:07,080
Speaker 1: support TRCP, and there's other ways you can get involved. Um.

2033
01:59:07,160 --> 01:59:10,760
Speaker 1: So yeah, TRCP dot org. Find them, see what they're

2034
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:14,920
Speaker 1: all about. You can find policy papers, um and kind

2035
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:17,560
Speaker 1: of figure out where they stand on everything. Nothing happens

2036
01:59:17,560 --> 01:59:22,240
Speaker 1: in secret? Oh no, no, very transparent. Um, you can

2037
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:24,440
Speaker 1: find it all out. You don't need to wonder what

2038
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:28,240
Speaker 1: they really think about things, because it's just laid out

2039
01:59:28,280 --> 01:59:32,280
Speaker 1: there for you. It is public information. So thanks Witt,

2040
01:59:32,680 --> 01:59:36,280
Speaker 1: Thanks Brodi, jannest Clay take care of guys. Thanks guys,

2041
01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:36,880
Speaker 1: Thanks w