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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome into the All Ball Podcast. You boy Doug

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Speaker 1: Godly here, and we appreciate you downloading, uh rating and

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Speaker 1: subscribing to us UM. Last week's version with Charles Barkley

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Speaker 1: is out there over a hundred thousand downloads and we

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Speaker 1: thought you'd enjoy it, so you can still obviously listen

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Speaker 1: to that. I appreciate you listen to this one. My

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Speaker 1: brother Greg, who is a longtime assistant at Oregon State,

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Speaker 1: before that at col before that at San Diego State,

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Speaker 1: before that at Sacramento State, before that at cow Poli

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Speaker 1: said LUs obispo um. Anyway, Uh, we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about the Jordan doc. You know, look, I could

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Speaker 1: get caught up in the Zion thing. We have plenty

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Speaker 1: of time to discuss Zion Duke and whether or not

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Speaker 1: somebody close to Duke uh gave them money or led

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Speaker 1: them to believe they were gonna get money to sign

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Speaker 1: with Duke. We can talk about Kansas and the five

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Speaker 1: level one in fractions level leveling against them, But I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that something that's going to change in the next

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Speaker 1: week now? Is that something super pertinent? Now we're in

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Speaker 1: this pandemic and it's gonna be really interesting to see

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Speaker 1: what the sport looks like when it comes back online.

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Speaker 1: NBA wise will come back obviously, first I would I

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Speaker 1: would guess, you know, with teams opening the facilities over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, I would guess that we'll get some form

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Speaker 1: of basketball, some form in midsummer. And how they do it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, still to be determined. Like I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: fascinated by it. But but before we get to that, like,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about this documentary. I'm always fascinated by by

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Speaker 1: what differentiates like different kinds of leadership, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I do think that while no one has ever questioned

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Speaker 1: his greatness on a basketball floor, that there were things

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Speaker 1: that were questioned. I think us getting a look at

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Speaker 1: his leadership where his leadership style, like, to me, that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a fascinating thing that kind of go is

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Speaker 1: under the surface for a lot of people. Is that

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Speaker 1: that fair? You think? Like, do you think do you

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Speaker 1: think they picked up what were a couple of things

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Speaker 1: leadership wise you picked up on? Well, I mean the

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Speaker 1: first thing is I loved how he talked about you know,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't afraid for people to not like him. I

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Speaker 1: think anybody who's a great leader, you can't you know,

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Speaker 1: whether you're a coach or a player, you can't. You

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Speaker 1: can't worry about whether people like you, you know, uh.

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Speaker 1: And that definitely was Michael. But and he led by example.

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Speaker 1: You watch him winning sprints even in practice. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that stood out to me the most is I

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Speaker 1: loved about how when the Pistons man handled him, he

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Speaker 1: went back and said, you know what, I got one.

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Speaker 1: I gotta be more durable, I gotta get stronger. I

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Speaker 1: gotta put ten pounds of weight on. But too, he

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Speaker 1: made everyone else stay that summer and work. In the

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Speaker 1: past everyone would just go their separate ways. And the

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Speaker 1: big thing man he was, he was like, Scotty, you

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Speaker 1: gotta get tougher. And so he made sure Scottie Pippen

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Speaker 1: got tougher because he had that he went down with

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Speaker 1: the Migraine and and they couldn't count on him. And

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Speaker 1: so he made those guys get tougher as a group.

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Speaker 1: And he also wanted to find out who wasn't tough enough. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's that's that's that's always an interesting dynamic

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Speaker 1: right when you try and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: teams now football and basketball, especially when they go through

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Speaker 1: these years where you wanna call it tanking or they're

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Speaker 1: just kind of re ordering themselves. I do think that's

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Speaker 1: one of the things that they're trying to figure out,

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Speaker 1: like who who's who's in this thing? If you can

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Speaker 1: stay in this thing during the terrible times, you'll be

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Speaker 1: in this thing for the good times. For him, he

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Speaker 1: was trying to figure out who had the mental and

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Speaker 1: physical toughness to win big and look, I I still

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Speaker 1: think that's a big I still think that's the people

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Speaker 1: have said like the NBA doesn't have that level of physicality.

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Speaker 1: They're probably right, but there's still a level of mental

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Speaker 1: toughness that guys either have or do not have. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I I don't know Jordan's that to me is what

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Speaker 1: what kind of separated him to me is is the

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Speaker 1: I love the line. I don't think he used it

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Speaker 1: exactly the same as like you don't ask something of

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Speaker 1: somebody else you're not willing to do yourself right. Like

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Speaker 1: if you heard that story about U and l V

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Speaker 1: back in the the Tark days when they were a

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Speaker 1: great team, on how they're all their assistant coaches and

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Speaker 1: their managers, they used to run with them. Obviously Tart

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Speaker 1: did not, but the idea, the idea was like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna ask these guys to do which not

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Speaker 1: wanting to do yourself. I love that. I love that

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Speaker 1: from a player, you know, from a from a player's

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Speaker 1: perspective as well. But I think the other thing too, though,

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Speaker 1: is you had to earn his respect after you know,

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Speaker 1: he got there and he did all those things by leading,

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Speaker 1: but you know he was going to challenge you and

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Speaker 1: you needed to step up. And you know that was

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Speaker 1: illustrated there with him and Steve Kirk going at it

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Speaker 1: and getting in a fight. And I loved how you know,

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Speaker 1: you you heard both of them talk about it from

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Speaker 1: their vantage point, but they basically came to the same conclusion.

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Speaker 1: You know that that Steve stood up for himself, and

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Speaker 1: uh and Michael value that that he was tough enough

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Speaker 1: to stand his ground, you know, so that that was

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Speaker 1: something I think it was just as important. I think

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Speaker 1: he was he wanted to make sure his guys were tough.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, he goes back and says, you know, Scotty,

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Speaker 1: you gotta get tougher. We're not gonna win, I you know,

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Speaker 1: and he did, and Scotty did. Yeah. On a side note,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking around to those guys and saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: who's the age of the most When you look at

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Speaker 1: that and and Scottie Pittman, he looked the same. He

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Speaker 1: looks like he could still play. Yeah, pretty amazing. Um

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Speaker 1: Jordan's you know, he's obviously got that brown drink, he's

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Speaker 1: got the he's got the yellow, yellow and red eyes.

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Speaker 1: I mean he's still He's still Jordan's and you could

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Speaker 1: see kind of light bulbs still kind of go on fire, firing,

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Speaker 1: and of competitiveness still kind of going on in there.

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Speaker 1: But he's let himself go a little bit. Noh, I

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Speaker 1: have no question. I actually was in at the NBA

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Speaker 1: Summer League last summer and I was in a going

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Speaker 1: into a hotel. I was in the lobby and I said, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a Madras shot And I didn't realize Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: was standing right next to him. And I didn't realize

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Speaker 1: until I got right up next to him because he

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Speaker 1: just does not look the same. Maybe he definitely has

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Speaker 1: gotten much heavier. Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I had

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Speaker 1: a similar moment one time when I was doing the

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Speaker 1: pre draft camp back on news in Orlando. Was that

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Speaker 1: the wide world of sports they had like a they

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Speaker 1: had like a like a kind of sports bar right

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Speaker 1: next to the milk house. And we're grabbing lunch and

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Speaker 1: walking by Larry Birden saying hi, and like and look,

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird still looks like Larry Bird, but he's wearing

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Speaker 1: like penny loafers and and like uh dockers and a

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Speaker 1: polo shirt and he kind of just looked like an

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Speaker 1: older guy, and like, God, that really ruined my image

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Speaker 1: of Larry Bird. Maybe it made it. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know. If I was Larry Bird, I

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Speaker 1: would wear those Converse weapons everywhere I went. That's what

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Speaker 1: I would do. I would wear the Converse weapons um

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Speaker 1: as simply everywhere. Although the weapons were terrible basketball shoes

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Speaker 1: they were. But also how about you know, you were

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Speaker 1: talking about what these guys are, but I mean, the

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Speaker 1: whole the whole series, Michael Jordan's smoking a cigar the

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Speaker 1: entire time. I mean, he's he's smoking him uh the

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Speaker 1: day games, he's smoking cigars, playing golf. That's that's him.

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Speaker 1: He's amazing, Yeah, I mean and and and then he said,

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Speaker 1: you know how guys would when he first got the league,

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Speaker 1: guys would bomb a cigarette off the coach. I just, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, it is fast on on how it how

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Speaker 1: it's changed. What do you think about Phil from a

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Speaker 1: from a guy you know, like the genius to fill

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Speaker 1: to me gets undersold a little bit like you if

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Speaker 1: you watch it, you pick it up. But I also

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Speaker 1: think that they're they're not necessarily pointing it out to

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Speaker 1: you because they're so enthralled with Jordan's and with themes,

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Speaker 1: like when here's a couple of them, everybody's gonna point

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Speaker 1: out the when Dennis had to go to Vegas, how

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Speaker 1: he ran it by Michael Jordan's and let it happen.

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Speaker 1: I have heard that Phil that pat Riley has done

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Speaker 1: that with his team's right, Like they win a game

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Speaker 1: in the West Coast and they get on the team

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Speaker 1: playing and they divert to Vegas, Like that's an old

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Speaker 1: pat Riley trick. Um. The one that that struck me

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Speaker 1: was when Jordan's his last meeting before he retired the

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Speaker 1: first time he went in to see Phil and Phil

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Speaker 1: supported him, and I thought, like again, just even the

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Speaker 1: way in which he supported him, where like, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is something you gotta do like go do it. It's

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Speaker 1: it's one thing like yeah, we'll support you and say it.

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Speaker 1: It's nothing to have like positive energy. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's what brought him equity with with Jordan's. I think

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Speaker 1: the really good coaches are incredible at just managing men,

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Speaker 1: and especially in the NBA, you know. And um, I

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Speaker 1: think he recognized, like you go one of those like

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Speaker 1: if you love him, set a free type of thing.

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Speaker 1: And there you know, he wasn't gonna change Michael's mind,

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Speaker 1: and he knows how stronger person reality Michael probably was.

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Speaker 1: So he's telling you he's gonna retire, you just gotta

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Speaker 1: wish him well. And then I think maybe in his

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Speaker 1: mind it could have been a play to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I let him go, and and that way he'll want

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Speaker 1: if he wants to come back, he will as opposed

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Speaker 1: to Harvard resentment from me trying to keep him from going,

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Speaker 1: you know. But but the guy was incredible really in

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Speaker 1: terms of that, like you said, and I'm sure there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of other Phil Jackson stories in terms of

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Speaker 1: how he managed that whole group, um, you know through

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Speaker 1: you know, especially you know again as you have more success,

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Speaker 1: I mean, everybody on the Bulls became a rock star,

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Speaker 1: and they get all these other things come at them

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Speaker 1: different ways, and and so being able to hold that

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Speaker 1: group together for as long as they did, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I'm sure at some point Scotty thought to himself, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be a side kick, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready to I want my own show. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: then he had his own show for a year, and

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Speaker 1: obviously that's when he bailed on the team, when he

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Speaker 1: didn't get the game when he shot and he really

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Speaker 1: eyes that like every you start to realize, like every

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Speaker 1: decision you make when you're the guy becomes prohibably more

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Speaker 1: difficult like this. This reminds me of my junior year

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Speaker 1: in college at Oaklahoma State. Adrian Peterson was our best player,

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Speaker 1: right and Adrian Peterson was third all time leaning scored

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Speaker 1: Oakama State preseason Player of the Year. We were preseason

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Speaker 1: top ten team. And Pete was a great player and

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Speaker 1: honestly a really good leader. He just was not a

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Speaker 1: vocal leader, like he just kind of did his thing.

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Speaker 1: You know. He would say something to you, you know,

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Speaker 1: he'd grab you and say something to you, but he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't he wasn't gonna yell at the team. He wasn't

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Speaker 1: gonna stand up in front like that just wasn't who

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Speaker 1: he was. Some guys are not built for that, you know,

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Speaker 1: and you can't pretend to be something you're not. And

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Speaker 1: it was interesting in reading about Scottie Pippen the year

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Speaker 1: that Jordan was totally gone, the first year he was gone.

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Speaker 1: They loved the fact that Scotty really didn't change in

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Speaker 1: his leadership style. He only took like one more shot

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Speaker 1: of game. You know, he was I think third in

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Speaker 1: the m v P balloting, but you know, he led

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Speaker 1: his way. But I I don't think I think that

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Speaker 1: he and Jordan played off each other really really well.

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Speaker 1: Was Jordan was kind of a dick right, like he

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Speaker 1: would call dudes Like even now some of the Jordan's stuff,

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Speaker 1: like we all give him a pass because he's Jordan's

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Speaker 1: because it works, because you know, some of that tough

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Speaker 1: love is needed, But like, did he really I had

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Speaker 1: George car my radio show, George Cars, like I don't

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Speaker 1: even remember what he's talking about the dinner and I've

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Speaker 1: been with Jordan and been with the modern shot and

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Speaker 1: they've never mentioned it before, So like, did you really

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Speaker 1: need to throw George Carl under the bus, you know.

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Speaker 1: And then you know Gary Payton like, hey, you didn't

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Speaker 1: let me guard him the first three games, Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's because Jordan would have gotten you in foul trouble.

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Speaker 1: You would have sat the whole game, right. But it

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Speaker 1: does feel like there's some like almost needless needling here

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Speaker 1: late that you that you don't need to. But that's

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Speaker 1: Jordan's personality. And it only really worked not just because

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Speaker 1: he had Phil as the coach, but because you had

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Speaker 1: Scottie Pippen as the much more much softer kind of

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Speaker 1: uh robin to to Jordan's batman. Yeah, and but I

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Speaker 1: mean I think or you could look at just from them,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're the second guy on the on

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Speaker 1: the floor they're trying to stop, you know you it's

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Speaker 1: maybe a little easier you don't have their best defender

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Speaker 1: guarding Scotty. Maybe, you know, over the period of the

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Speaker 1: time after he Michael was gone, he realized how much

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Speaker 1: he appreciated my Michael being the guy that carried the

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Speaker 1: focus and then allowed him to do more. And I

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Speaker 1: think Scotty was always a really good player, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think he was a prolific scorer. In the same

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Speaker 1: way that Michael was so um and and then you know,

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Speaker 1: who knows, maybe he was he wanted him to put

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Speaker 1: Tony Kukok in his place, So that's why he liked

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Speaker 1: him coming back. It's possible. Um okay. So the next

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Speaker 1: I love Gary Payton's the thing though, to me, you know,

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Speaker 1: Gary Payton, Uh, you might be right, he could have

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Speaker 1: gotten inval trouble, but I think you know, if you

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Speaker 1: do have the league's best defender, he probably should guard

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Speaker 1: the league's best player. I think that was kind of

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Speaker 1: his take. And and the thing that I love about

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Speaker 1: Gary Payton, just like Michael is their level of confidence.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Michael's laughing, but Gary believed that and

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Speaker 1: that's how he played. And I think again, those are

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Speaker 1: those little details or what I think makes those guys

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Speaker 1: Hall of famers that their level of confidence is incredible,

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Speaker 1: you know. And Michael won't he doesn't, he won't agree

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Speaker 1: with him. But I'll tell you what, You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: change Gary's mind either. Cast you ask this question, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I've ever asked you. We've talked about confidence

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Speaker 1: with guys you coach all the time. Um, can you

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Speaker 1: get a guy can you teach a guy to have

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Speaker 1: his confidence or regain his self confidence, like, what would

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Speaker 1: be your way? I mean, I think over a period

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Speaker 1: of time you can, but I think they you know,

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Speaker 1: it depends how big of a rabbit hole there in.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think confidence is so important, so you

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Speaker 1: have to hold it. I think what I would tell

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Speaker 1: anybody is, um, how how important self confidence in is

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Speaker 1: and and not on the surface, it's not the self

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Speaker 1: confidence comes from within. It's not showing other people you're confident.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people confuse the two you know,

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Speaker 1: where you that's kind of fake confidence. Confidence, you know,

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Speaker 1: is just you know, you miss a shot, you believe

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Speaker 1: the next one is going in. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: that stuff comes really from the work you put in,

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Speaker 1: and you gotta just you gotta you know whether it's

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Speaker 1: the self confidence from the work you put it in

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Speaker 1: the gym, hours of shooting, but it could be the

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Speaker 1: as we talked about with Michael Jordan's self confidence. You

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Speaker 1: go back in the weight room and you get stronger

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Speaker 1: and tougher. It's playing those games with yourself in your

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Speaker 1: mind when you're tired that now is the time when

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna really push myself even harder. Um, those are

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Speaker 1: the kinds of things I think that really matter and

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Speaker 1: uh um and because you build that self confidence over time,

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Speaker 1: I don't think Michael Jordan was that self confident as

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Speaker 1: a high school player, and even maybe at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of when he was in North Carolina. Mean you look

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Speaker 1: at it. He wasn't the best player on that team,

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Speaker 1: and no one would have picked that. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: two or three other guys, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, those

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Speaker 1: guys were pretty good. So but over a period of time,

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Speaker 1: he his confidence just continue to develop. So um, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So the last two episodes are going to be the

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Speaker 1: I would guess the flu game will be part of it.

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Speaker 1: Uh and then you know the shot to end it. Um,

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Speaker 1: flu game is like I mean again, these are like

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Speaker 1: my two favorite moments in his career. First, the flu game.

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Speaker 1: I remember where I was where I was watching it,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if it was food poisoning, it

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Speaker 1: was really a flu if he was hungover, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it was. I'm sure they'll probably I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: they'll go with food poisoning. I hope that I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't really care what it was. Um, Like, it's

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Speaker 1: just the indomitable will, the ability, the ability to will

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Speaker 1: yourself through all the pain, which is which is crazy.

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Speaker 1: But but also like I don't I still think it's

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Speaker 1: interesting now when guys shoot a fade away now they

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Speaker 1: go Kobe, and then you realize that Kobe copied Jordan's

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Speaker 1: and I don't think he was ever as good at

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Speaker 1: it as Jordan was that mid post fade away. What

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Speaker 1: do you remember about the flu game? Manum, you know

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Speaker 1: that that that's I don't remembered enough about it, but

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Speaker 1: I do remember that dude was sick. Every time they

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Speaker 1: had a time out they talked about it. He was

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Speaker 1: over there sitting on the bench and he was hardly

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Speaker 1: even in the huddle. Um, But I just remember he

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Speaker 1: dude rose to the occasion and and found a way.

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Speaker 1: And just like you were saying before, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about self confidence. But I always say that two things

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Speaker 1: I think they are going to make or break you

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Speaker 1: as a player, really is your mental toughness and self confidence.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, if that's not a test of yours,

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Speaker 1: just shill sheer will that he was able to block

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Speaker 1: that out despite you know the fact that he was

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Speaker 1: feeling so poorly. And I mean again, you know, we've

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Speaker 1: all been around a lot of really good players. Guys

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Speaker 1: when they get sick, they can't fight through that, even

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Speaker 1: guys that you think are relatively tough. So, um, that

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Speaker 1: was incredible. Yeah, that was incredible. Yeah. How about how

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Speaker 1: about I'm gonna get on a side note though, because

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Speaker 1: you were talking about Kobe in the fade away, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I'm not watching this documentary as much as people

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Speaker 1: are talking about comparing him and Kobe, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think you can make a comparison with Kauai just as easily,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, you know, mental toughness, self confidence, work,

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Speaker 1: ethic winner. Yeah. The only the only difference is that

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Speaker 1: Kauai doesn't hasn't played the number of games, hasn't put up,

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Speaker 1: hasn't carried a team offensively for for an entire season,

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Speaker 1: you know. But I do in the biggest spots, I do.

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Speaker 1: And they have both that big hands, They're unbelievable in

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Speaker 1: the mid range. Um, I mean, you know, both massively

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Speaker 1: improved as shooters. They can lock you down. I think

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Speaker 1: Kauai would probably even be a better kind of defender

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Speaker 1: in terms of better size and a better rebounder. But yes,

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Speaker 1: I would, I would agree, like there is something special

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Speaker 1: about about Yes, he's the book is totally written on him.

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Speaker 1: So um. But you know, I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of similarities maybe with all three of those guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: but I think he's right up there, and you know

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Speaker 1: he's gonna have to win a couple more to be

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Speaker 1: in I guess in the conversation allegedly, but I think

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Speaker 1: pretty damn good. By the way, the uh the Flu game,

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Speaker 1: which he was I mean, I just love this. I

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Speaker 1: think that was the they didn't win the title on

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Speaker 1: that one. He had thirty eight on thirteen of twenty

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Speaker 1: seven shots, ten of twelve from the free throw line.

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Speaker 1: Uh and it was May June in Utah and they

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Speaker 1: end up they won that game. That that's amazing. Thirty

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Speaker 1: eight points, points, five assists, seven rebounds. Really good players.

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Speaker 1: They always you know, you don't want to just get

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Speaker 1: f G A. Do you need to get f TM

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Speaker 1: and uh um. You know, but I think Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: we talked about this or before. I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: not everybody remembers the dunks, but all those other finishing shots,

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Speaker 1: his mid range pull up, I mean, we about the

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Speaker 1: game and against the Celtic three. It was at three. Yeah, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean I always think of him with

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Speaker 1: those little mid range pull ups right there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: his pull up game off the dribble was incredible right there.

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Speaker 1: And he had such a great pair of legs he

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Speaker 1: could get up in hand in the air. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: it just makes shots. Okay, So now we go to

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Speaker 1: the last game. It's game I mean, like one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I think people will remember when they watch,

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Speaker 1: and I've watched it several times over. It wasn't just

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Speaker 1: the shot, it was a couple of things. It was, Uh,

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Speaker 1: he had the last three buckets and no one else

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Speaker 1: I believe touched the basketball. They threw it to him

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Speaker 1: in bounds and they're down four, and he goes and

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Speaker 1: he gets a bucket, or maybe they're down two, goes

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Speaker 1: and gets a bucket and then um Paxson hits a

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Speaker 1: three when they double Karl Malone and he comes down,

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Speaker 1: he gets foul. He makes two free throws. Then he

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Speaker 1: steal is the ball from Karl Malone coming from the

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Speaker 1: baseline side and they don't call time out. He clears out,

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Speaker 1: he gets to his spot, he makes a move to

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Speaker 1: his right, a little shove with his offhand, but does

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Speaker 1: so so it's not super blatant at the time that

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Speaker 1: you could see it. Right. Plus it's before the era

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Speaker 1: of the flop and nobody's gonna call in Jordan's and

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Speaker 1: he pulls up and if if people remember, and I

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Speaker 1: only remember this because our late father used to tell

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Speaker 1: us it told me at the time. He's like, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if Jordan meantis and probably say it

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Speaker 1: on Sunday, which is he was short all game long,

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Speaker 1: and he held that follow through, not for the cameras,

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Speaker 1: he held the follow through because you know, to to

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Speaker 1: make sure that he made it. Um. I wish he

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Speaker 1: didn't play in Washington. I don't even remember anything about

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Speaker 1: Washing another and he had some big games. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that was a total PostScript. But how incredible is

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Speaker 1: it that, like, of all the things to end your career,

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Speaker 1: and look, Jeter ended his career. You know, I guess

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Speaker 1: in in in Yankee Stadium with a game winning hit,

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Speaker 1: you know, with a walk off hit. We've seen other

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Speaker 1: guys win Super Bowls, but we haven't seen a guy

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Speaker 1: win a Your Bowl um with you know, scoring the

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Speaker 1: last touchdown or throwing the touchdown pass as as time

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Speaker 1: expires like Jordan did big time play. But um, you

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Speaker 1: know it's funny. First of all, the the push off thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean, every every NBA player at least

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Speaker 1: guards all push off on every play. Watch James Hardeny

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Speaker 1: does it on every play now. So I mean it

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Speaker 1: was just one obvious at the time because it was

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Speaker 1: kind of he was you know, didn't happen as much,

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Speaker 1: but that was a hell of a play. Um, even

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Speaker 1: in that in that game. And and I think in

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Speaker 1: the Phoenix game that they showed, Hey, before the thing

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Speaker 1: that blows me away is he gets like a transition basket.

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Speaker 1: Was it the one where he got fouled in transition

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Speaker 1: or was it right before that? I mean, like these guys, uh,

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Speaker 1: how did you like in the Phoenix game, they gave

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan and you will go on the length of

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Speaker 1: the floor and no one picked him up. And then

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Speaker 1: and then whoever was the center came over and fouled

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Speaker 1: him right at the end or something at a layup.

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Speaker 1: You got the best player in the floor. How did

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Speaker 1: he get a hip? So that's from a coaching that point,

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Speaker 1: but there's no question, I mean, everybody does the you

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00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: know three to one and buzzer beaters when you're as

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Speaker 1: a kid growing up, and um, to do it on

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Speaker 1: that stage at that time, that moment and to cap

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Speaker 1: your career. I mean, that's that I think kind of

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Speaker 1: speaks to why everyone thinks he's the greatest player ever.

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Speaker 1: You know, he always rose to the occasion in the

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Speaker 1: biggest moment, and I think, really that's where you get

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Speaker 1: defined the most. I'm excited to see the last couple episodes. Uh,

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Speaker 1: let's catch up again next week and thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me. I loved it all right, So there's

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Speaker 1: my discussion with my brother Greg, assistant coach Oregon State.

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00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: So look, there's You can listen to The Doug Otlip

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00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 1: Show daily three to six Eastern, told through Pacific Fox,

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00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: sport Tree dot com, I Heart Radio apping download the

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00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: Data podcast. We do I think great interviews and have

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00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: good stuff for you. Uh uh that that you can

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00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: always get. Um. What one last thought, my brother talked

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Speaker 1: about something that I'm a big believer in and what

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00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: what makes Jordan's great and what made the Bulls great

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00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: and frankly makes all kind of the best of the

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Speaker 1: best the best. I still think the three CS and

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Speaker 1: he talked about confidence. We don't as as broadcasters as

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Speaker 1: analysts talk enough about it. But confidence, it can come

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00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: and go. Like honestly, Lebron has lost his confidence in

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Speaker 1: his jump shot at at certain times and then gotten

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Speaker 1: it back. But that's what happened in Dallas, That's what happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, at times against the Spurs, they verdear him

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Speaker 1: to shoot um and that's what happened at times. You know,

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Speaker 1: it didn't really happen with the Warriors, but I think

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Speaker 1: it was he maybe lost confidence in his teammates. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that changed for Jordan's was he gained

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Speaker 1: confidence in his teammates. Confidence conditioning, conditioning and conditioning isn't

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Speaker 1: just are you in great shape? Can you play at

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Speaker 1: your best at the end of a game? And look,

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Speaker 1: we we asked ridiculous things of of Lebron at times

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Speaker 1: because he's not surrounded, we're told, with the right kind

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00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: of talent. But he's runn out of gas. He's running

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00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: of gas before. Crazy about Lebron is he hasn't doesn't

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00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: get hurt. The exception the growing last year, Jordan's seemed

477
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: to be able to play through fatigue better than anybody

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Speaker 1: in his era and maybe anybody ever. And then culture, right,

479
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: and their culture was they played great defense. Their best

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00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: player demanded that they play hard and played their best

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00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: and played great defense. In addition to which they had

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Speaker 1: a great culture from like and I know some people like, well,

483
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: the have a terrible culture. They're making fun of Jerry Krauss. Yes,

484
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: but it all kind of worked together. They they you know,

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00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: they had the breakfast club where they all worked out

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Speaker 1: in the morning. You know, Jordan and his and Pippo

487
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: and Harper worked out together in the morning and help

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00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: him get stronger. They had a hierarchy within the team,

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00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: their best player and their second best player and only

490
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: got along but laid off each other really really well.

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00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,479
Speaker 1: Like their their culture worked culture, confidence and conditioning. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, Jordan winning a sprint is just something

493
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Speaker 1: that like I watched Alan Iverson or Shaquille O'Neal, and

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00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: you think of Shock not being in shape for a

495
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: good portion of early parts of seasons or even Laton

496
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: in his career, Shack could have been the most dominant

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Speaker 1: player in the history of the NBA. Didn't mean he

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00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: didn't have an incredible career, and he wasn't dominant, but

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Speaker 1: not as dominant as he could have been. He was

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Speaker 1: not only the biggest, he was the most athletic, unbelievably talented,

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Speaker 1: gifted basketball player. But Shack just want to be Shack,

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Speaker 1: which God bless him. Won four titles. Hall of Famer

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00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: has a statue outside of Staples, although I'm a little

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00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: torn on that because he played for the Celtics. I

505
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: don't know if you can do that, but whatever, but

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Speaker 1: he could have been the you know, like the greatest

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Speaker 1: big man ever. But I believe that. But he didn't

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Speaker 1: have that work ethic that Kobe did, and Iverson didn't

509
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 1: have the offseason and practice work ethic of the all

510
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: time greats. Karmelo Anthony, same thing wasn't when it never

511
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: been one to defend, you know, hasn't trusted teammates enough,

512
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: didn't evolve as a player. And so Karmel Anthony, who

513
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: for my money, there was a stretch of time five

514
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: years there where he was the best pure score in

515
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: the league, didn't win anything because of it. Even the

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Speaker 1: move to the Knicks, which was a trade instead of

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Speaker 1: waiting for the off season, you know, I know there

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00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: was gonna be a lockout or whatever. We can get

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00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: into that in another podcast. But but these are the

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00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: things that Carmel has done to himself, or as Jordan's

521
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: bought in the idea of hey, if I'm not good enough,

522
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: even going back to high school, I'm gonna get better.

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00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: If I'm not ready for the NBA, I'm gonna get better.

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00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: He wasn't a good enough shooter early in his NBA career.

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00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: He got better. Then when he became a good enough shooter.

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Speaker 1: He didn't trust his teammates and didn't have a big

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Speaker 1: enough body, he did and got better culture, confidence, and conditioning.

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Speaker 1: All right, tune in next week. You're gonna love it.

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Speaker 1: We'll recap the entire series. I hope you enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlib. This is all ball