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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Courtney mcinvale is with US, founder of Seaside Shadows, an

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Speaker 2: award winning tour company recognized as one of the top

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Speaker 2: three ghost tours in America by USA Today's ten Best

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Speaker 2: Reader's Choice Awards. Courtney's tours lend true history with folklore

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Speaker 2: and the supernatural, and she's also a noted author, including

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Speaker 2: Civil War Ghosts of Georgia Volumes one and Volumes two. Courtney,

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Speaker 2: welcome back. Have you been.

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Speaker 3: I'm good? How have you been?

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Speaker 2: Happy New Year? All is good?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Good? Happy New Year to you too. I can't

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Speaker 3: believe it's already twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: You know, I was looking at these statistics for the

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Speaker 2: Civil War. How sad? Up to six hundred and ninety

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Speaker 2: eight thousand people died during that crisis. Unbelievable.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's like such a huge number because the

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Speaker 4: population two was so much smaller than it is now,

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Speaker 4: so it was such a large chunk of the population.

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Speaker 4: There was nobody that was unaffected during that time.

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Speaker 2: What inspired you to write your book Civil War Ghosts

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Speaker 2: of Georgia Volumes One and two?

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Speaker 4: Sure, so being a new England girl. It doesn't make

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Speaker 4: sense right out the gate, but with my father being

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Speaker 4: from Georgia and raising me on Southern history, it was

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Speaker 4: something that was always sort of within me, and I

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Speaker 4: had my own experiences with ghosts and things on battlefields.

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Speaker 4: But for volume two, it had to follow up volume one,

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Speaker 4: which was mostly battlefields and regiments, because I also like

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Speaker 4: to extract personal stories, delve deeper into legends and folklore,

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Speaker 4: write about some of the burial places, and that's what

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Speaker 4: Volume two follows volume one up with.

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Speaker 2: How did you key in on some of the shortain

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Speaker 2: areas in the book.

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Speaker 4: So a lot of it was personal exploration and visiting

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Speaker 4: and interviews and traveling all around Georgia for a long

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Speaker 4: period of time, so a lot of it had to

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Speaker 4: do with that, but also reading a lot of first

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Speaker 4: hand accounts from the war newspaper articles finding out where

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Speaker 4: these people were actually fighting, living, dying and being buried.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen thousand of the soldiers that were confined to Andersonville, Georgia,

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Speaker 2: died from disease, malnutrition, overcrowding. It was horrible.

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Speaker 4: It was It was called a hellhole on earth. It

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Speaker 4: was formerly known as Camp Sumpter, but all the soldiers

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Speaker 4: called it the hell holes.

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Speaker 2: Tell us more about some of the ghostly legends of Andersonville.

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Speaker 4: Sure, So, Andersonville it's pretty noted because it had someone

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Speaker 4: who was in charge of it that was the only

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Speaker 4: person in the Civil War actually charged with war crimes

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Speaker 4: that was found guilty and who was a secuted, and

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Speaker 4: that was someone named Henry weirs And Henry Weirz has

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Speaker 4: ghost st our scenes throughout Andersonville and actually throughout d

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Speaker 4: C where some of his court trials were. Some think

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Speaker 4: not resting easy because of all the orders he made

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Speaker 4: that led to the inhumane treatment of the people buried there.

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Speaker 4: But I always thought one of the most compelling things

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Speaker 4: that came out of Andersonville, other than you know, Clara

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Speaker 4: Barton Endurance Atwater and their spirits who affected because they

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Speaker 4: were able to identify those buried there. I think one

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Speaker 4: of the mower compelling ones is actually of a priest

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Speaker 4: who used to get people's final rights there. And there

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Speaker 4: was a ghost story that was well documented for years

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Speaker 4: of a man who was visiting the prison and as

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Speaker 4: he was walking down the road he saw sort of

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Speaker 4: a shadowy figure and it was a rainy day, so

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Speaker 4: he tried to avoid the strange looking man, and then

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Speaker 4: suddenly the strange looking man who had once been in

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Speaker 4: front of him was behind him, tapping him on the shoulder,

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Speaker 4: and he put his hand on his head and said, sir,

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Speaker 4: I need to administer.

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Speaker 3: Your last right.

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Speaker 4: And the man became so frightened he began to run

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Speaker 4: and he ran through this man and he thought, you know,

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Speaker 4: I better not finished visiting the prison today.

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Speaker 3: This was very spooky.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what just happened to me. When he

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Speaker 4: goes to the prison the next day, which is now

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Speaker 4: a national park, he told one of the employees there

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Speaker 4: what has happened and they said, oh, you met father Whylan.

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Speaker 4: You Unofficially, we can't tell you he's here, but he is.

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Speaker 4: And he was one of the only priests that would

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Speaker 4: not leave the site and from administering last rights, because

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Speaker 4: a lot of priests did due to fear of disease

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Speaker 4: or just the sorrow of what was happening, and he

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Speaker 4: was one of the ones who didn't.

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Speaker 2: Corney, what is it about tragedy that creates some of

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Speaker 2: these ghostly stories.

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Speaker 4: I think a lot of it is, like you said,

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Speaker 4: the tragedy of a life cut short, a life unfulfilled,

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Speaker 4: a legacy that didn't get to be left behind, the

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Speaker 4: fear of being forgotten. So many of these men that

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Speaker 4: died during the Civil War were ranging in ages eighteen

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Speaker 4: to thirty, a lot of them on the younger end.

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Speaker 4: So they didn't get to live the lives that you

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Speaker 4: or I may get to live. And so there's the

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Speaker 4: tragedy of that, of the what could have been, And

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Speaker 4: there's also this sort of tragedy to how they died

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Speaker 4: that might keep them in a spot. The violence of it,

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Speaker 4: the quickness of it, the unexpectedness of it. To us,

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Speaker 4: it seems, oh, you go to war, don't you expect this?

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Speaker 4: But they really didn't. During the Civil War wasn't proposed

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Speaker 4: to them this way. They really thought it was going

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Speaker 4: to be short lived, quick and more political. It wasn't

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Speaker 4: until they were really in it that they realized the

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Speaker 4: gravity of it.

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Speaker 2: Well with Courtney Mackenvale, our website is linked up at

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Speaker 2: costcosdam dot com. We're talking about our latest work, Civil

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Speaker 2: War Ghosts of Georgia Volumes two. Will also be talking

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Speaker 2: about some of her new England tours later on in

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Speaker 2: the program. How did you assemble the stories? How did

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Speaker 2: you find them?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So my favorite way to find stories is actually

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Speaker 4: going through old newspapers and journals of the people that

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Speaker 4: were in the nineteenth century and reading the memoirs of

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Speaker 4: any of the soldiers that did survive. So a lot

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Speaker 4: of stories came from a man named General John Gordon

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Speaker 4: who wrote a whole chapter on near death experiences and

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Speaker 4: his own near death experiences. There were a lot of

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Speaker 4: stories that came from old accounts of the Oakland Cemetery

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Speaker 4: in Atlanta after the Atlanta Campaign, and the Atlanta History

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Speaker 4: Center there has a lot of information on that, and

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Speaker 4: then visiting a lot of these old sports will also

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Speaker 4: provide a lot of information. The people there will just

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Speaker 4: tell you about the ghosts that they see there and

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Speaker 4: where they came from.

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Speaker 2: Now, there was a train wreck in Burnsville, Georgia. Tell

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Speaker 2: us about that story.

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Speaker 4: One of the most fascinating stories that I uncovered. And

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Speaker 4: I actually found this one through my cousin. So I

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Speaker 4: have a lot of family that lives down south and

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Speaker 4: they're kind of like me. They like to find the

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Speaker 4: history and mystery. And when I was visiting doing Civil

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Speaker 4: War things, my cousin said, Hey, Courtney, you know, not

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Speaker 4: far from here, there's this area where supposedly all these

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Speaker 4: Confederate soldiers side in a crash, and I thought, why

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Speaker 4: were they, you know, going from there? Well, they were

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Speaker 4: leaving the battle at Jonesboro and they were headed we think,

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Speaker 4: down to Andersonville with some Union prisoners. But just the

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Speaker 4: way they were traveling made us kind of suspicious with

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Speaker 4: how they were hiding things.

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Speaker 3: And they didn't write much about the.

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Speaker 4: Cars that the Confederate gold that notable legend could have

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Speaker 4: been on that train. Nevertheless, they're going around a curve

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Speaker 4: named Lavender Curve in this really rural area and another

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Speaker 4: train that's just carrying sort of goods and things is

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Speaker 4: into them, and it's one of the most catastrophic Civil

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Speaker 4: War train crashes that is ever recorded. While the strangeness

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Speaker 4: comes in that all of these Confederate soldiers are found

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Speaker 4: bloodied on the side of the railway. Those locals are

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Speaker 4: burying them or trying to heal them in a barn,

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Speaker 4: but not a single record is kept of who actually died.

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Speaker 4: And all these little white crosses are put in a

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Speaker 4: nearby cemetery, but they figure out the bodies aren't actually there,

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Speaker 4: and then when it gets reported to the newspapers. The

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Speaker 4: newspapers that were actually uncovered were found mysteriously burnt or

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Speaker 4: the full documentation not there, so we never fully knew

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Speaker 4: who was on the train or what was on the train,

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Speaker 4: just some neighborhood accounts of how grievous and bloody this

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Speaker 4: train wreck was.

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Speaker 2: Do you go on tours in Georgia?

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Speaker 4: We're starting in Georgia this year in spring of twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty five. We're aiming to open around Memorial Day weekends.

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Speaker 4: We're going to be opening another branch of Seaside shattow

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Speaker 4: Is called Southern Shadows, and we're actually starting in Chickamauga, Georgia,

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Speaker 4: where the second deadliest battle of the Civil War actually

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Speaker 4: took place, and hopefully following up there in Making Georgia after.

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Speaker 2: That fascinating work. You've been doing this for how many

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Speaker 2: years now, Cortney.

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Speaker 4: So I actually started giving tours back in twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 4: So later on this year it will be our twelfth

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Speaker 4: year of Haunted History tours. But I think I've been

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Speaker 4: into history and mystery my entire life.

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Speaker 2: And then in twenty fourteen, one of your books came

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Speaker 2: out called Haunted Mystic, Right, Yes.

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Speaker 4: That's about the very first town where we still operate

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Speaker 4: tours in Mystic, Connecticut, not far from where I grew up.

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Speaker 4: So all the old Sea captains, Revolutionary War soldiers, things

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Speaker 4: like that. That's the focus of Haunted Mystic and the

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Speaker 4: tw tours here in Connecticut now.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about Savannah, Georgia, and it's Haunted history.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 4: So Savannah is fascinating. And in fact, when I was

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Speaker 4: writing Civil War Ghoes of Georgia, Volume two, I had

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Speaker 4: quite a few segments on Savannah. So my publisher he said,

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Speaker 4: you know, we should have a full section on Savannah.

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Speaker 4: There's just so much and people will want to visit

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Speaker 4: all of these spots. So Savannah is fascinating, and that

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Speaker 4: it is where Sherman, General Sherman marches to the sea

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Speaker 4: and sort of they hand him the keys to Savannah

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Speaker 4: and he gives Savannah the city to Lincoln as a

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Speaker 4: Christmas present during the Civil War after he causes this

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Speaker 4: path of destruction across Georgia. But Savannah is a place

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Speaker 4: that's full of hospitals, full of old bars where soldiers

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Speaker 4: used to hang out, full of cemeteries for Civil War soldiers,

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Speaker 4: and full of three forts that are all haunted by

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Speaker 4: this time, Piero and sort of endured attacks, whether they

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Speaker 4: were from ironclads or whatnot. And so the amount of

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Speaker 4: ghosts in Savannah from the Civil War alone is immense,

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Speaker 4: and then just adding on the propensity for Savannah spirits

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Speaker 4: on top of that just sort of quadruples it.

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Speaker 2: Partney, were some of these hauntings were they scary or

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Speaker 2: were they just puzzling?

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Speaker 4: I think it depends really on who you ask. I

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Speaker 4: think some of them are scary in the sense that

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Speaker 4: we don't really know all the facts about we haunting them.

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Speaker 4: For instance, there's a place called Sport James Jackson, and

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Speaker 4: they have a spirit of a private garrity who is

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Speaker 4: kind of a shady character who shot his own officer.

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Speaker 4: He claims he didn't recognize in the dark. And when

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Speaker 4: people see the ghosts of this private garrity, who later

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Speaker 4: washed up on the shores of the Fort dead, they

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Speaker 4: say he's very mean, condescending to people that are visiting

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Speaker 4: the fort, walks around with a rifle. People don't feel

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Speaker 4: safe around him. So I think, you know, just like

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Speaker 4: with regular people, there can be good or bad people,

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Speaker 4: there can be good or bad spirits. As far as

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Speaker 4: scary There's also Fort McAllister where one of the spirits

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Speaker 4: is headless, and that's Major Galley, and I'm sure that's

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Speaker 4: quite spooky, though poor thing just had his head taken

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Speaker 4: off by a cannon, which also happened, so it really,

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Speaker 4: I guess, is all in the eye of the beholder.

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Speaker 2: In Georgia you have Rose Hill, Marietta Confederate Cemetery. Why

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Speaker 2: are they so significant?

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Speaker 3: Those are some of.

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Speaker 4: The cemeteries that had the most burials of Civil War

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Speaker 4: soldiers and especially unknown soldiers. I would probably also add

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Speaker 4: onto their Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta. A lot of these

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Speaker 4: have tens of thousands of unknown graves, people who were

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Speaker 4: un identified not brought home, which was their biggest fear

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Speaker 4: in the nineteenth century. They're also unique if you visit

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Speaker 4: a Confederate cemetery because those were established by women. The

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Speaker 4: women of the South were very upset that they're dead

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Speaker 4: weren't brought back home, so they actually went out and

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Speaker 4: got a lot of them and formed organizations that retrieved them.

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Speaker 4: They created something called a decoration Day, which later the

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Speaker 4: US adopted as a memorial Day, but they were the

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Speaker 4: first to start doing that in the spring, so that's

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Speaker 4: always significant. But I think Oakland Cemetery and their Unknown

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Speaker 4: Dead is known for paranormal the most because they have

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Speaker 4: what's called the role Call of the Dead, where they

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Speaker 4: swear if you visit there in the evening hours, which

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Speaker 4: I know you're not supposed to, but if you do,

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Speaker 4: you may actually hear the soldiers calling names, and if

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Speaker 4: you stay there long enough, you'll hear your own name

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Speaker 4: being called in them summoning you to the role call.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of ghost stories from some of the

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Speaker 2: forts out there, like McAllister, Pulaski, Fort James Jackson. How

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Speaker 2: significant are they.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so they're significant in that they're in Savannah, which

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Speaker 4: is sort of the coastal area of Georgia, and they

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Speaker 4: have significance from the beginning to the end of the war.

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Speaker 4: So in the very beginning you have the Confederacy which

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Speaker 4: is in charge of some of these sports, but very

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Speaker 4: quickly the Union takes over some of them. In Pulaski, though,

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Speaker 4: you actually have Confederate soldiers who are imprisoned, some known

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Speaker 4: as the Immortal six hundred, who were also starving to death,

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Speaker 4: just like the Union brethren that were down in Andersonville.

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Speaker 4: A lot of them sort of eating rats and cats

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Speaker 4: and trying to survive in their own home state. A

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Speaker 4: lot of them, the immortal six hundred, would not sign

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Speaker 4: that they would join the North, and so it was

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Speaker 4: almost kind of like hunger strikers, but also prisoners. Fort

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Speaker 4: McAllister was attacked several times by Union Iron class under

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Speaker 4: William Sherman, and that led to the beheading of Major

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Speaker 4: Galley on that site, and also the killing of beloved Tomcat,

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Speaker 4: who the soldiers loved and who would live on the

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Speaker 4: fort with them, and they say his ghost is there.

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Speaker 4: And of course James Jackson is the one I mentioned

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Speaker 4: before where Private Garrity accidentally shot his own officer and

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Speaker 4: then mysteriously showed up deceased himself on the shores.

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Speaker 2: Of sports Courtney. How would you compare the hauntings in

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Speaker 2: Georgia as opposed to like Gettysburg Garantium.

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Speaker 4: I think George's actually just as high up there in

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Speaker 4: the haunting realm of Gettysburg and Antietam, But for some

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Speaker 4: reason it was overlooked in a lot of ways. When

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Speaker 4: we look at haunted history Gettysburg, we know three days

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Speaker 4: deadliest battle, over fifty thousand casualties, of course there's been

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Speaker 4: Hollywood films and books written about it because of the

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Speaker 4: high casualty count and just the nature of that battle

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Speaker 4: being a turning point in the war. Antietam also went

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Speaker 4: down in history as the deadliest day, and that early

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Speaker 4: on in the war when people really didn't know what

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Speaker 4: they were getting into, and they showed the gravity of it.

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Speaker 3: But Georgia has Chickamauga, which is.

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Speaker 4: The second deadliest battle of the Civil War, second only

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Speaker 4: to Gettysburg. As I mentioned, they have the Atlanta Campaign

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Speaker 4: with tens of thousands of deaths. They have Sherman going

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Speaker 4: through there and burning the place, and Georgia has one

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Speaker 4: of the highest shows of force in the Civil War

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Speaker 4: as far as soldiers go in general. So I think

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Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, because Georgia was considered the

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Speaker 4: Western theater, and sometimes folks talk about that less, it

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Speaker 4: gets overlooked, but it's absolutely comparable with Gettysburg and Antietam.

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Speaker 2: You had an encounter with a Confederate general by the

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Speaker 2: name of John Hood who died at the age of

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Speaker 2: forty eight years old eighteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 4: What happened, Yes, So I am kind of a history nerd,

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Speaker 4: and so I always have affection for certain soldiers in

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Speaker 4: generals over others, and I've always been fascinated and had

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Speaker 4: an affection toward John Belhood.

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Speaker 3: I just thought he was kind of a soldier.

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Speaker 4: That got a bad rap, even though he was really,

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Speaker 4: you know, dedicated to what he did and he did

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Speaker 4: what had to be done as far as he was concerned.

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Speaker 4: So I always hoped that I might encounter his spirit.

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Speaker 4: And one of the ways I was kind of looking

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Speaker 4: for it is in the Battle of Chickamauga, he actually

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Speaker 4: had to have a leg amputated, and supposedly in Salton, Georgia,

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Speaker 4: his leg is bury there, and of course that's controversial

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Speaker 4: and we're not sure, but that's stuff that I like

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Speaker 4: to go and find out. Well, I've always gone and

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Speaker 4: investigated these sites, but one day when I wasn't actively investigating,

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Speaker 4: I was just out on the Chickamaga battlefield. I went

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Speaker 4: to the area where he had been shot, the shot

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Speaker 4: that led to that amputation. I was laying out there

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Speaker 4: actually reading his book Advance and Retreat. My husband met

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Speaker 4: me there later and was sitting with me. It was

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Speaker 4: the middle of the afternoon. This was just a couple

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Speaker 4: months ago, and we were the only people there, and

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Speaker 4: there were no sidewalks or pathways. When around two pm

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Speaker 4: we heard someone say hello. Now I heard it, but

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Speaker 4: I didn't want to say anything until my husband said

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Speaker 4: he heard it as well, and he said, did you

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Speaker 4: just hear hello? I said I did, And we looked

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Speaker 4: around and we didn't see anyone. And I kept reading

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Speaker 4: and suddenly I got to a point in the book

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Speaker 4: where General Hood wrote that it was around two pm

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Speaker 4: and the exact spot where I had been sitting, that

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Speaker 4: he had been struck by the mini ball in his

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Speaker 4: by And I thought, oh, my gosh, is it coincidence

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Speaker 4: that we just heard him say hello, or someone say

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Speaker 4: hello at that exact moment.

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Speaker 3: Could it have been him?

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Speaker 4: And then later that night we went closer to the

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Speaker 4: spot and I took a few pictures, and sure enough

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Speaker 4: we got an image of a man on a horse,

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Speaker 4: just as Hood had described, he would have been near

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Speaker 4: that spot.

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