WEBVTT - The Hogs of Hell 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.440 I remember, indeed that in later years, the lord of 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.240 my country, knowing I was acquainted with Italy, asked me why, 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.320 as he had seen down there some lords went out 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.880 to pasture their pigs, And I laughed, realizing that on 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:18.759 the contrary, they were going in search of truffles. But 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.560 when I told him that these lords hoped to find 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.520 the truffle underground to eat it, he thought, I said, 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.880 they were seeking dear Typhon the devil, and he blessed 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:34.800 himself devoutly, looking at me in amazement. Then the misunderstanding 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.320 was cleared up, and we both laughed at it. Such 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.159 as the magic of human languages that, by human accord, 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.480 often the same sounds mean different things. Had so of milk, 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:46.440 humberto echoes, the name of the Rose. 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.160 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.040 Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:03.880 is Robert Lamb. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:05.319 And I am Joe McCormick. 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.640 All right. In today's episode, as the title indicates, and 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.560 as the quote suggest, we're turning our attention once more 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.280 to beings and monsters that may verge on the demonic, 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.559 And this time it is, of course, hogs of hell 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:23.160 pigs of hell, bores of the underworld, and so forth. 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.520 We've of course discussed the Garricene demoniac on the show 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.240 before this being Christ's exorcism of the demonic Legion into 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.840 a herd of swine, out of a man and into swine. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.279 We did a whole episode about that in the past. 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.280 This time, though, it's more about hell pigs of one 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:43.840 sort or another. We're gonna explore some different territory and 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.000 different interpretations. 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.760 That's right, monster pigs, bls of bores, and pigs of 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.480 a more heavenly sort as well. But we start a 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.480 lot of these October episodes with examples from horror movies 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.640 of the types of creatures we're talking about, and so 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.000 I figured we should do the same today. I know 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.360 this has come up on the show several times. I'm 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.000 not quite sure why we keep pinging back on this 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:12.120 movie so often, but when it comes to horror movies 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.919 with monster pigs, I have to mention the nineteen eighty 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.440 four Russell Mulkaheek killer pig movie from before the same 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.640 director made Highlander in nineteen eighty six. This was eighty four, 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.840 and the movie is called Razorback. Now I've described the 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.440 plot in the past as something like a combination of 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:37.120 Australian Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Jaws, but with a pig 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.720 instead of a shark. I stand by that. I think 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:41.600 that is a pretty that gives you a pretty good 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.560 idea of what you're dealing with. It's been a while 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.480 since I've seen it. I don't super highly recommend it, 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.560 Like my memory is that is extremely gooey and gross 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.000 like at one of the major settings of the movie 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:58.320 is a gray market dog food factory in the Australian outback, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.400 so you can imagine the kind of chainsaw massacre connotations 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.600 you'd get there. There's a lot of body slop. But 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.799 it is worth mentioning as a movie because it's one 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:11.240 of the relatively few horror films I can think of 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.079 where the monster is a pig. I was looking it 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.040 up and it seems there have been several more movies 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.640 on this theme in recent decades, but I haven't seen 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.880 any of those, so this is the one I'm aware of. 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.520 And I recall that the movie does actually do a 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:29.560 pretty commendable job of making the bores mouth a mind 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.480 rending terror. It's just this hot, steaming maze of teeth 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.640 and tusks, and for most of the movie, in fact, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:42.200 almost never really, you really don't see the creature's whole body. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:46.680 You just see its mouth, almost like all there is 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.120 is a mouth, which I think is a strong choice. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.480 You get a similar kind of thing in some shark movies. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:53.640 Basically all you see are the gaping jaws. 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.960 Yeah, this is not what I've seen, but I know 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.560 you admire it, or it might past backs of it, 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.360 And uh, I'm looking at some stills here right now, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.840 and yeah, this monster pig looks amazing, like this is 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.880 this is the thoroughly deserving of the title Jaws, but 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:10.560 with a pig. 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.320 I mean it does take serious boldness to approach that 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:18.400 as a concept, because do you can keep the You 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.039 can keep the monster hidden much more easily in Jaws 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.799 because it's underwater, right, But a boor is just running around. 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:29.479 Uh so, Yeah, it takes some clever photography to make 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.719 the scene convincing and heighten the tension without ever showing 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:34.760 us too much of the bore until the very end. 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:36.800 I guess the thing about a bore is you can 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.200 have the boar moving through like the tall grass or 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:42.800 the undergrowth. To some extent and it's sort of like 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:43.680 it's underwater. 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can have that. Uh though, 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.160 this boar, I from what I re call it's taller 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:52.679 than any grass in the setting. It's like a fan 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.200 sized bore. Okay, Now, as I said, I haven't really 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.560 seen any of these other recent pig monster movies. Maybe 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:01.000 there's some really the good ones. I don't know. I 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:06.479 can't say. But of course, beyond the realm of horror movies, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:11.240 there are a lot of fascinating pig beings in mythology, religion, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.400 and ancient literature, including good pigs, bad pigs, and everything 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:15.920 in between. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.880 Yeah. Yeah, And I have to admit I never really 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:20.720 looked into them all that much before, and I think 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.440 I probably kind of glossed over mentions of bores and 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.000 pigs in mythology in the past just because I don't know. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.320 I'm I didn't have really strong opinions about wild boars. 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.760 I don't have any experiences with them. You know. I've 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:38.640 seen various you know, pig and pig kin animals at 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.200 the zoos, and they're interesting, but you know, I just 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.400 wasn't inspired. So I of course, when we were going 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:46.400 to do this episode, I said, sure, let's do it, 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.400 let's dive in, and I turned to one of my 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.560 favorite sources initial sources for this sort of thing. I 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.080 looked to one of folk lore's Carol Rose's books, in 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.800 this case, Giants, Monsters and Dragons and Encyclopedia Folklore, Legend 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.000 and Myth Great Vogue, easily one of my most loved 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.920 and falling apart books. But when I started looking around 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:10.000 for bores and pig like creatures, I was surprised at 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.680 how many there were. There are a lot of them. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.640 Dozens of creatures are referenced in this book, and I 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.600 should stress that while she's pretty exhaustive in these volumes, 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.320 she is by no means complete in her chronicling of 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:25.480 global traditions. So if she has dozens, there are more 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:28.640 out there as well. So there are a lot of monstrous, 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:34.640 hellish and even divine pig bore and bore like beings 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:36.240 in global traditions. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.719 This just popped into my head. So it's not a 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.880 fully formed thought, maybe it is not worthy yet, but 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.000 it just struck me that, you know, a lot of 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.720 these animals that we see having a major role in 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:56.880 religion in mythology are animals that exist in both a 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.120 wild and domesticated form around the culture. So like you see, 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:06.320 you know, very common to have cattle related, cattle related imagery. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.640 We were just talking about cattle related beings in ancient 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.160 Mesopotamian religion, and of course they would have had both 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.720 domesticated cattle and the wild orx around them. And we've 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.400 seen similar things with goats. You could have domestic goats 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.360 and wild goats around you. Maybe something about that kind 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.239 of dichotomy where you're seeing like the same animal body 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.560 both you know, roaming and running around and doing its 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:33.000 own thing in the wild, but also in a only 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:36.040 slightly altered form as an animal that you keep on 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.440 your farms, and that that seems to hit something in 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:40.160 the brain. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.400 Yeah, and definitely seems to influence the way we use 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.880 those animals in our language and our symbols and in 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.920 our mythology, you know, coming back to for instance, you know, 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:55.960 donkeys and assids. We talked about this in the Mesopotamian 0:07:56.040 --> 0:08:00.520 demon episode, the idea of a ferocious sheeting and being 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:05.680 associated with a donkey, and how it seems perhaps laughable 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:10.000 if you're thinking from a modern standpoint about a domestic donkey, 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:13.840 but we're talking here about a wild creature. It was swift, 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:16.640 and therefore it's a fitting steed for a demons. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.960 Oh yeah, that's right. So what was it? The demonus 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:23.280 Lamashetu is said to ride on a wild donkey, but 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.640 also occasionally was depicted maybe with donkey ears. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.240 Yeah yeah, And to your point, we also see this 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.480 with cattle versus the you know, the wilder forms of 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.800 that creature. And we'll see that again time and time 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:40.319 again when it comes to pigs, bores, and pig like creatures. 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:45.640 The various species that compose the suborder of Suena known 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.320 as the seu of forms. These can be found around 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:54.000 the world, from wild and ferocious bores to pig like cavalinas, 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.720 and of course the wild and domestic pigs of the 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.240 genus Sus. When I told my son about this, he 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.080 thought this was rich. I was like, you're never going 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:09.000 to forget the genus of wild and domestic pigs because 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:09.640 they're Sus. 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.480 Is it not Sus? I would have said, Sus, but oh, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:14.520 it's got to be Saus. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.720 It's well Sus maybe, but when I read it, I'm like, Sus. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:26.040 Their genus is Sus perfect us Okay, So human relationships 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.400 with these animals, of course, has entailed many different things. Hunting, consumption, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.280 sort of just acknowledgment of their wild status, observation of 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:41.479 their behavior in the wild, and then poresigne, imagery, and associations. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.640 These are going to vary somewhat from culture to culture 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:48.000 and from time to time, and at times too and 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:51.800 kind of counterintuitive ways that I think sometimes breaks down to, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.360 you know, the the the idea of looking to the 0:09:54.400 --> 0:10:00.440 wild suiforms as well as to the domestic suiform and 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.760 then also having different cultural influences enter into an area. 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.439 Yeah, thinking about the cultural associations we have with pigs 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.360 got me thinking on several different frequencies. I was like, 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.600 for one thing, in our culture, isn't it funny how 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:21.960 we we really associate pigs with eating when eating is 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:26.240 something all animals do. Yeah, Like why is that? And 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.600 my best guess is maybe it has something just to 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.520 do with the relatively omnivorous appetites of a pig that 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.880 you know, they famously will kind of they're kind of 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.080 not picky about what kinds of things they eat. But 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.640 that's also true of many other animals that you think 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:42.880 of less that way. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.800 I think, Yeah, we end up comparing ourselves more to 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.360 the pig. And they're probably a number of ways to 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.760 sort of slice that up, right. I mean, you could 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.200 focus on the intelligence of the pig, and the domestic 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:59.160 pig is a pretty bright creature. You could maybe focus 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:03.520 on it's relative hairless. I mean, I say the pigs 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.960 are hairless. They do have hair, but a lot of 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:09.240 times they are you're seen or certainly depicted as being 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.400 kind of hairless, especially when you're dealing with like cartoon pigs. Yeah, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.439 and we're very very strange in the way that we are, 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.680 especially with like roadside barbecue restaurants are very quick to 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.720 personify the pig and invote cartoon pigs. Eat at a 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.800 place where the flesh of pigs is served under the 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:28.760 name of pork. 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:32.040 Yeah, the pulled pork restaurant where it shows a pig 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.160 and a chef's hat wearing just a shirt with like 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.160 a knife and a fork. 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:41.960 Yeah, it's gonna often be horrific. So, yeah, there's a 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.960 lot to unpack and like American associations of the pig, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.640 but if you go, you know, across the board and 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.640 throughout time, you you'll find a lot more to look at. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.000 For instance, the wild boar is a powerful image in 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.640 medieval heraldry. It's also pretty powerful and Hindu iconography, where 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.520 it's at times linked to the divine, as we'll explore. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:05.760 In the Chinese zodiac, the pig is associated with wealth 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.600 and good fortune. And I've heard other you know, sort 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.760 of takes on how the pig is considered in say 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.160 Thai culture, where I'm to understand that the term for pig, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.560 which I believe is MoU, is a common nickname of endearment. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.200 So something you might call a child with some endearment, 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.720 you know, some kid that you love, or your baby brother, 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:29.679 and it wouldn't be a put down, it wouldn't be 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:34.199 an insult, that sort of thing. But meanwhile, elsewhere in 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.680 time and space, here on Earth, poresine imagery of course, 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.199 has all these negative connotations tied to, as you said, 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:45.280 gluttony or sloth, or even to the unclean and the demonic. 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.160 That's right, and as we often bring up in these 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:53.200 episodes about monster traditions, looking at beliefs about monsters, especially 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.680 monsters based on an animal, I think usually tells us 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.079 more about us and our relationship to that animal. It 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.360 does about the animal itself. That's right. 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.280 So you know, we're going to dive into some examples 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:08.720 from global traditions here, but I will say that as 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.080 I was going through them and reading about them, and 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:14.600 some of which they couldn't find enough to really mention here, 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:18.439 but overall I found that you could basically divide them 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.040 into sort of three categories with a certain amount of overlap. 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.360 So there are primordial bores, often with a real emphasis 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.600 on a connection to the earth. You know, they run 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.559 around in the earth, they dig in the earth, kind 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.920 of as referenced in our cold open here. You know, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.160 they are concerned with things under the soil, and they 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.040 go under the soil to get them. So they have 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:39.679 this connection. 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:43.280 But by primordial, are you saying that they have something 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.760 to do with like an initial state of the universe 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:47.360 or with the creation of the world. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:52.319 Yes, like something about like the state of at least 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:56.080 the surface world, and we'll get into some examples of this. 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:02.960 Then there are also divine bores. Often these are ethereocephalic, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.920 so you know, it's the head of a bore on 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.040 a humanoid body, but not always. There are also divine 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.680 bores that are just straight up like a mighty boar 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:15.760 that is also a god. And then another huge area 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.800 and this is one that I think ties directly into 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.880 the horror movie example that we kicked off the episode with, 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:26.120 and that is the bore that hunts humans, which is 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.400 basically not a huge twist because I mean, history and 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.320 just basic understanding of wild boars will tell you that 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.720 they are they can be dangerous prey, and we can 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.320 point to examples throughout history of even famous people, members 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.040 of nobility dying in the conquest of a prized boar, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.960 say a boar that they have injured in an attempt 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:50.920 to kill, and then they themselves die of injuries sustained 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:51.400 from the boar. 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:57.320 So the famous and within context somewhat ignoble death of 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.120 Robert Barrathian in fiction is based somewhat on real incidents 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.880 something it's not implausible in royal history. 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.280 No, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and to be clear, 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.200 like wild bars can be dangerous today, and there are 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.720 fatal incidents that occur. They can be very defensive and 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:20.880 even aggressive if the circumstances are right. But these mythic 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:24.360 treatments often take it one step beyond. It's not just 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.360 that this is a dangerous game to hunt. But this 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:31.040 game actively not only hunts you back, but might hunt 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.840 you of its own accord. Like you're not even trying 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.640 to hunt the monster boar. It just goes out and 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.280 hunts people at night, that sort of thing. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.960 Okay, So to recaps, you've got bores from the creation, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.640 or bores from the beginning, you've got divine bores or 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.440 heavenly bores, and then you've got the boar that eats people. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.360 Right, One more quick fictional example before we dive into 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.800 these examples from global traditions, I should note that in 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.600 Dante's Inferno, there are twelve named demons that compose the 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.160 Malagrantia in the eighth circle of Hell, and one of 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:12.040 them is clearly named with hogs in mind. This is Curiato, 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.600 whose name means swine or a little pig, and we 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:20.840 meet him in Canto twenty one, verse one two. So 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.760 that's just a quick example of a literary pig in hell. 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.560 I don't remember what the context was, but we've talked 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.160 about the Mala bronca before they were the I think 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.840 that name translates to evil claws. And this is the 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:39.560 circle of demons who are shown like surrounding a boiling 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.640 lake of pitch, and there are the I don't know, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.760 like corrupt people and grafters or something that they keep 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.800 having to force back down under the pitch. Pretty pretty 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:51.440 nasty job. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:17:03.840 They're demons with jobs, though they have a rope. All right, 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.960 enough of the like straight up demonic here, let's get 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.560 into some other examples. So I'd like to start in 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.280 Hindu traditions, since these traditions feature some of the most 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:19.280 divine and I think powerful invocations of poresine imagery. So 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.600 I turned once more to Nanditha Krishna's excellent book Sacred 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.600 Animals of India, in which the author chronicles a number 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.800 of different animals and talks about like their you know, 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:35.440 their their role in the natural world in India, conservation status, 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.720 and then also the different ways that they're infolked and 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.639 so the author here describes across the size and power 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.160 of wild bares creatures that are that are of course 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.040 closely tied to the earth. As I mentioned earlier, they 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.600 dig for roots in the soil and in doing so 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.760 they turn over the soil, perhaps as the author suggests, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:01.879 informing humans about the value of tilled soil oh. 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:02.840 So they could be one of the sort of like 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.600 agricultural knowledge givers in a way. 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:09.720 Exactly at the same time, they're also like this natural 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.000 force that you know, might be beneficial but might also 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:17.080 be destructive. They can certainly hurt and kill humans, but 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.399 they can also be destructive to human agricultural pursuits because 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.120 they may raid crops, they may dig around in your gardens, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:27.160 and so forth. So in essence, we have a fierce, wild, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.399 but not universally hostile creature that is closely tied to 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:36.800 the earth. The bore both tills and fertilizes the soil, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.240 and tradition holds that they're also tied to rain and 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:43.840 monsoon seasons as well, digging right before the beginning of 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.200 the monsoon. So one of the major uses of bor 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.359 iconography and Hindu traditions is the tenth incarnation of the 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.800 god Vishnu, and that is of Fadaha. And there are 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.760 different stories, of course concerning this incarnation, as you'll find 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.080 with just about any particular detail and the Hindu traditions, 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.959 but one of the big tales does involve a demon 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.119 of sorts. Now more precisely, it involves an Osra. This 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.639 is the kind of power seeking demi god that is 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.639 often in conflict with the benevolent devas. So one of 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.959 these is one of these cases where the word demon 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:24.080 in English seems a precise enough descriptor, but with certain caveats, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.960 you know, like it's the system of supernatural beings can 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.880 be compared to that that you find in Christian mythology. 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.520 But there's still a lot of important differences, right. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.080 We just recently talked about this in our series on 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.439 the so called demons of ancient Mesopotamia. To what extent 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.200 that term does sort of apply and in other ways doesn't. 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:50.639 In this case, we have a demon or by the 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:55.840 name of Hironyaksha that steals the earth itself, so rolls 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.280 up the earth like a mat we are told, and 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.480 then takes it into the ocean depth wo and yeah, 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.160 And so Vishnu is not crazy about this. So Vishnu 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.680 takes the form of a great boar, this is Vardaja, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.280 and dives into the ocean to retrieve it, slaying here 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:17.400 in Yaksha. In the fierce battle that ensues. Then Vardaja 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:21.280 restores the earth, and while he's at it, teaches humans agriculture, 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:24.960 because again this is connection between bors and tilling of 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.240 the earth, fertilizing the soil. And I want to note 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:32.240 that while many illustrations and depictions of this battle show 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.840 Vardaja as a bore and here in Yaksha as a 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.040 human or a humanoid demon, there's at least one illustration 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.440 that depicts them both as human boar hybrids. I included 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:45.720 this one here for you, Joe. This is a seventeen 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:50.680 forty illustration by Indian painter Manaku of gular Oh. 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.679 I like this painting though, so they're they're shown in 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.280 conflict here. Do you know which of the two beings 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.720 in the painting is supposed to be the incarnation of Vishnu? 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.240 Is the one with the grayer skin or the green skin. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.520 It would be the gray skin, I believe, because here 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.520 you see a regal, multi armed, noble looking poor sign 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:15.399 individual por sign being. And then on the other hand 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:18.840 you see this wild green monster that is also poor sign, 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.440 that also has the features of a bore. And I 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.760 love this imagery because you get in one image these 0:21:24.800 --> 0:21:29.159 two drastically different ways of invoking the imagery of the boar, 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.600 the noble and the savage, the good and the evil, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:33.520 and so forth. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:37.359 Yeah, that's right. So the vicious demonic boar here is 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:41.600 mouth open, its jaws kind of like to compare it 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.439 to the movie Razorback, it's just all mouth ah reaching 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:49.280 out with its arms to attack, whereas the Vishnu version 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.000 of the boar, yeah, it's standing with its chin up, 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:56.040 you know, raised in kind of lofty defiance. 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:56.879 Yeah. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:57.840 Yeah. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:02.359 And you'll find other depictions of Varaha in which pretty 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:06.720 much looks like this with gray skin, the head of 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:10.760 a boar, multiple arms. But then you'll also find depictions 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.639 where he is just a great boar. H And I 0:22:13.640 --> 0:22:16.119 included an image of some sculpture art that depicts this. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.119 Now Naraka, the lord of the underworld Krishna rights is 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.040 also held to be the offspring of Vadaha and the 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:29.760 Earth via his spouse Budhevi, which I believe the sculpture 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.320 I included here, if you look at it, there is 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.800 a female figure on there, kind of like hanging from 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:38.880 one of his tusks. I believe that is Budhvi. 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.000 Whoa Oh okay, So I initially interpreted this humanoid figure 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.800 to be climbing the boar, as if to climb up 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:48.120 its side and ride it, you know, she's hanging from 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.880 its tusk. Wow. Yeah. 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.680 Krishna also points to a couple of other Hindu entities 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:58.760 that feature boar iconography. There's the goddess Vadahai, an aspect 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.440 of the Goddessa. The author also mentions that the boar 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.159 is also invoked in Jainism and in Buddhism, where the 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:10.800 goddess ma Rici or Marisi drives a chariot drawn by 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.639 seven boors. I believe this figure also factors into Hinduism 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.240 and has sometimes depicted as writing a single boar, though 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.320 not always. All right, let's let's turn to the world 0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:25.719 of monstrous boars, because one really important example in Greco 0:23:25.840 --> 0:23:29.320 Roman traditions is, of course the Caledonian boar or the 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.600