1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: I remember, indeed that in later years, the lord of 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: my country, knowing I was acquainted with Italy, asked me why, 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: as he had seen down there some lords went out 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: to pasture their pigs, And I laughed, realizing that on 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: the contrary, they were going in search of truffles. But 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: when I told him that these lords hoped to find 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: the truffle underground to eat it, he thought, I said, 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: they were seeking dear Typhon the devil, and he blessed 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: himself devoutly, looking at me in amazement. Then the misunderstanding 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: was cleared up, and we both laughed at it. Such 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: as the magic of human languages that, by human accord, 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: often the same sounds mean different things. Had so of milk, 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: humberto echoes, the name of the Rose. 14 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 15 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb. 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick. 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: All right. In today's episode, as the title indicates, and 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: as the quote suggest, we're turning our attention once more 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: to beings and monsters that may verge on the demonic, 21 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: And this time it is, of course, hogs of hell 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: pigs of hell, bores of the underworld, and so forth. 23 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: We've of course discussed the Garricene demoniac on the show 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: before this being Christ's exorcism of the demonic Legion into 25 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: a herd of swine, out of a man and into swine. 26 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,279 Speaker 1: We did a whole episode about that in the past. 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: This time, though, it's more about hell pigs of one 28 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: sort or another. We're gonna explore some different territory and 29 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: different interpretations. 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 3: That's right, monster pigs, bls of bores, and pigs of 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: a more heavenly sort as well. But we start a 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: lot of these October episodes with examples from horror movies 33 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: of the types of creatures we're talking about, and so 34 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: I figured we should do the same today. I know 35 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: this has come up on the show several times. I'm 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: not quite sure why we keep pinging back on this 37 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 3: movie so often, but when it comes to horror movies 38 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 3: with monster pigs, I have to mention the nineteen eighty 39 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: four Russell Mulkaheek killer pig movie from before the same 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 3: director made Highlander in nineteen eighty six. This was eighty four, 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 3: and the movie is called Razorback. Now I've described the 42 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 3: plot in the past as something like a combination of 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: Australian Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Jaws, but with a pig 44 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 3: instead of a shark. I stand by that. I think 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: that is a pretty that gives you a pretty good 46 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: idea of what you're dealing with. It's been a while 47 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: since I've seen it. I don't super highly recommend it, 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: Like my memory is that is extremely gooey and gross 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: like at one of the major settings of the movie 50 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: is a gray market dog food factory in the Australian outback, 51 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 3: so you can imagine the kind of chainsaw massacre connotations 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 3: you'd get there. There's a lot of body slop. But 53 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 3: it is worth mentioning as a movie because it's one 54 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: of the relatively few horror films I can think of 55 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: where the monster is a pig. I was looking it 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: up and it seems there have been several more movies 57 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 3: on this theme in recent decades, but I haven't seen 58 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: any of those, so this is the one I'm aware of. 59 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 3: And I recall that the movie does actually do a 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 3: pretty commendable job of making the bores mouth a mind 61 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: rending terror. It's just this hot, steaming maze of teeth 62 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 3: and tusks, and for most of the movie, in fact, 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: almost never really, you really don't see the creature's whole body. 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: You just see its mouth, almost like all there is 65 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 3: is a mouth, which I think is a strong choice. 66 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: You get a similar kind of thing in some shark movies. 67 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: Basically all you see are the gaping jaws. 68 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not what I've seen, but I know 69 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: you admire it, or it might past backs of it, 70 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: And uh, I'm looking at some stills here right now, 71 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, this monster pig looks amazing, like this is 72 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: this is the thoroughly deserving of the title Jaws, but 73 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: with a pig. 74 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: I mean it does take serious boldness to approach that 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 3: as a concept, because do you can keep the You 76 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 3: can keep the monster hidden much more easily in Jaws 77 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 3: because it's underwater, right, But a boor is just running around. 78 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 3: Uh so, Yeah, it takes some clever photography to make 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: the scene convincing and heighten the tension without ever showing 80 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 3: us too much of the bore until the very end. 81 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: I guess the thing about a bore is you can 82 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: have the boar moving through like the tall grass or 83 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: the undergrowth. To some extent and it's sort of like 84 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: it's underwater. 85 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, you can have that. Uh though, 86 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: this boar, I from what I re call it's taller 87 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,679 Speaker 3: than any grass in the setting. It's like a fan 88 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: sized bore. Okay, Now, as I said, I haven't really 89 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 3: seen any of these other recent pig monster movies. Maybe 90 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 3: there's some really the good ones. I don't know. I 91 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 3: can't say. But of course, beyond the realm of horror movies, 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 3: there are a lot of fascinating pig beings in mythology, religion, 93 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 3: and ancient literature, including good pigs, bad pigs, and everything 94 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: in between. 95 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I have to admit I never really 96 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: looked into them all that much before, and I think 97 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: I probably kind of glossed over mentions of bores and 98 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: pigs in mythology in the past just because I don't know. 99 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm I didn't have really strong opinions about wild boars. 100 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: I don't have any experiences with them. You know. I've 101 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: seen various you know, pig and pig kin animals at 102 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: the zoos, and they're interesting, but you know, I just 103 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: wasn't inspired. So I of course, when we were going 104 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: to do this episode, I said, sure, let's do it, 105 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: let's dive in, and I turned to one of my 106 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: favorite sources initial sources for this sort of thing. I 107 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: looked to one of folk lore's Carol Rose's books, in 108 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: this case, Giants, Monsters and Dragons and Encyclopedia Folklore, Legend 109 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: and Myth Great Vogue, easily one of my most loved 110 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: and falling apart books. But when I started looking around 111 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: for bores and pig like creatures, I was surprised at 112 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: how many there were. There are a lot of them. 113 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: Dozens of creatures are referenced in this book, and I 114 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: should stress that while she's pretty exhaustive in these volumes, 115 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: she is by no means complete in her chronicling of 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: global traditions. So if she has dozens, there are more 117 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: out there as well. So there are a lot of monstrous, 118 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: hellish and even divine pig bore and bore like beings 119 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: in global traditions. 120 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 3: This just popped into my head. So it's not a 121 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 3: fully formed thought, maybe it is not worthy yet, but 122 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: it just struck me that, you know, a lot of 123 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 3: these animals that we see having a major role in 124 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: religion in mythology are animals that exist in both a 125 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 3: wild and domesticated form around the culture. So like you see, 126 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 3: you know, very common to have cattle related, cattle related imagery. 127 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 3: We were just talking about cattle related beings in ancient 128 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 3: Mesopotamian religion, and of course they would have had both 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 3: domesticated cattle and the wild orx around them. And we've 130 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: seen similar things with goats. You could have domestic goats 131 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: and wild goats around you. Maybe something about that kind 132 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 3: of dichotomy where you're seeing like the same animal body 133 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 3: both you know, roaming and running around and doing its 134 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: own thing in the wild, but also in a only 135 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: slightly altered form as an animal that you keep on 136 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 3: your farms, and that that seems to hit something in 137 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 3: the brain. 138 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and definitely seems to influence the way we use 139 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: those animals in our language and our symbols and in 140 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: our mythology, you know, coming back to for instance, you know, 141 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: donkeys and assids. We talked about this in the Mesopotamian 142 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: demon episode, the idea of a ferocious sheeting and being 143 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: associated with a donkey, and how it seems perhaps laughable 144 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: if you're thinking from a modern standpoint about a domestic donkey, 145 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: but we're talking here about a wild creature. It was swift, 146 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: and therefore it's a fitting steed for a demons. 147 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right. So what was it? The demonus 148 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 3: Lamashetu is said to ride on a wild donkey, but 149 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 3: also occasionally was depicted maybe with donkey ears. 150 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And to your point, we also see this 151 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: with cattle versus the you know, the wilder forms of 152 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: that creature. And we'll see that again time and time 153 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: again when it comes to pigs, bores, and pig like creatures. 154 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 1: The various species that compose the suborder of Suena known 155 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: as the seu of forms. These can be found around 156 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: the world, from wild and ferocious bores to pig like cavalinas, 157 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: and of course the wild and domestic pigs of the 158 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: genus Sus. When I told my son about this, he 159 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: thought this was rich. I was like, you're never going 160 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: to forget the genus of wild and domestic pigs because 161 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: they're Sus. 162 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: Is it not Sus? I would have said, Sus, but oh, 163 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: it's got to be Saus. 164 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: It's well Sus maybe, but when I read it, I'm like, Sus. 165 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: Their genus is Sus perfect us Okay, So human relationships 166 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: with these animals, of course, has entailed many different things. Hunting, consumption, 167 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: sort of just acknowledgment of their wild status, observation of 168 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:41,479 Speaker 1: their behavior in the wild, and then poresigne, imagery, and associations. 169 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: These are going to vary somewhat from culture to culture 170 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: and from time to time, and at times too and 171 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: kind of counterintuitive ways that I think sometimes breaks down to, 172 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: you know, the the the idea of looking to the 173 00:09:54,400 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: wild suiforms as well as to the domestic suiform and 174 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: then also having different cultural influences enter into an area. 175 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, thinking about the cultural associations we have with pigs 176 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 3: got me thinking on several different frequencies. I was like, 177 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 3: for one thing, in our culture, isn't it funny how 178 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 3: we we really associate pigs with eating when eating is 179 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 3: something all animals do. Yeah, Like why is that? And 180 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 3: my best guess is maybe it has something just to 181 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 3: do with the relatively omnivorous appetites of a pig that 182 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 3: you know, they famously will kind of they're kind of 183 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: not picky about what kinds of things they eat. But 184 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: that's also true of many other animals that you think 185 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 3: of less that way. 186 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, we end up comparing ourselves more to 187 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: the pig. And they're probably a number of ways to 188 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: sort of slice that up, right. I mean, you could 189 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: focus on the intelligence of the pig, and the domestic 190 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: pig is a pretty bright creature. You could maybe focus 191 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: on it's relative hairless. I mean, I say the pigs 192 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 1: are hairless. They do have hair, but a lot of 193 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: times they are you're seen or certainly depicted as being 194 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: kind of hairless, especially when you're dealing with like cartoon pigs. Yeah, 195 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: and we're very very strange in the way that we are, 196 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: especially with like roadside barbecue restaurants are very quick to 197 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: personify the pig and invote cartoon pigs. Eat at a 198 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: place where the flesh of pigs is served under the 199 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,760 Speaker 1: name of pork. 200 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, the pulled pork restaurant where it shows a pig 201 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: and a chef's hat wearing just a shirt with like 202 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: a knife and a fork. 203 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna often be horrific. So, yeah, there's a 204 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: lot to unpack and like American associations of the pig, 205 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: but if you go, you know, across the board and 206 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: throughout time, you you'll find a lot more to look at. 207 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: For instance, the wild boar is a powerful image in 208 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: medieval heraldry. It's also pretty powerful and Hindu iconography, where 209 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: it's at times linked to the divine, as we'll explore. 210 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: In the Chinese zodiac, the pig is associated with wealth 211 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: and good fortune. And I've heard other you know, sort 212 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: of takes on how the pig is considered in say 213 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: Thai culture, where I'm to understand that the term for pig, 214 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: which I believe is MoU, is a common nickname of endearment. 215 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: So something you might call a child with some endearment, 216 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: you know, some kid that you love, or your baby brother, 217 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be a put down, it wouldn't be 218 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: an insult, that sort of thing. But meanwhile, elsewhere in 219 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: time and space, here on Earth, poresine imagery of course, 220 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: has all these negative connotations tied to, as you said, 221 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: gluttony or sloth, or even to the unclean and the demonic. 222 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: That's right, and as we often bring up in these 223 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 3: episodes about monster traditions, looking at beliefs about monsters, especially 224 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 3: monsters based on an animal, I think usually tells us 225 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 3: more about us and our relationship to that animal. It 226 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 3: does about the animal itself. That's right. 227 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: So you know, we're going to dive into some examples 228 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: from global traditions here, but I will say that as 229 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 1: I was going through them and reading about them, and 230 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: some of which they couldn't find enough to really mention here, 231 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,439 Speaker 1: but overall I found that you could basically divide them 232 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: into sort of three categories with a certain amount of overlap. 233 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: So there are primordial bores, often with a real emphasis 234 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: on a connection to the earth. You know, they run 235 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: around in the earth, they dig in the earth, kind 236 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: of as referenced in our cold open here. You know, 237 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: they are concerned with things under the soil, and they 238 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: go under the soil to get them. So they have 239 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: this connection. 240 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: But by primordial, are you saying that they have something 241 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: to do with like an initial state of the universe 242 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 3: or with the creation of the world. 243 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: Yes, like something about like the state of at least 244 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: the surface world, and we'll get into some examples of this. 245 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: Then there are also divine bores. Often these are ethereocephalic, 246 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: so you know, it's the head of a bore on 247 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: a humanoid body, but not always. There are also divine 248 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: bores that are just straight up like a mighty boar 249 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: that is also a god. And then another huge area 250 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: and this is one that I think ties directly into 251 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: the horror movie example that we kicked off the episode with, 252 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: and that is the bore that hunts humans, which is 253 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: basically not a huge twist because I mean, history and 254 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: just basic understanding of wild boars will tell you that 255 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: they are they can be dangerous prey, and we can 256 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: point to examples throughout history of even famous people, members 257 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: of nobility dying in the conquest of a prized boar, 258 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: say a boar that they have injured in an attempt 259 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: to kill, and then they themselves die of injuries sustained 260 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: from the boar. 261 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 3: So the famous and within context somewhat ignoble death of 262 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: Robert Barrathian in fiction is based somewhat on real incidents 263 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: something it's not implausible in royal history. 264 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: No, not at all. Yeah, I mean, and to be clear, 265 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: like wild bars can be dangerous today, and there are 266 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: fatal incidents that occur. They can be very defensive and 267 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: even aggressive if the circumstances are right. But these mythic 268 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: treatments often take it one step beyond. It's not just 269 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: that this is a dangerous game to hunt. But this 270 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: game actively not only hunts you back, but might hunt 271 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: you of its own accord. Like you're not even trying 272 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: to hunt the monster boar. It just goes out and 273 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: hunts people at night, that sort of thing. 274 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 3: Okay, So to recaps, you've got bores from the creation, 275 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 3: or bores from the beginning, you've got divine bores or 276 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 3: heavenly bores, and then you've got the boar that eats people. 277 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: Right, One more quick fictional example before we dive into 278 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: these examples from global traditions, I should note that in 279 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: Dante's Inferno, there are twelve named demons that compose the 280 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: Malagrantia in the eighth circle of Hell, and one of 281 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: them is clearly named with hogs in mind. This is Curiato, 282 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: whose name means swine or a little pig, and we 283 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: meet him in Canto twenty one, verse one two. So 284 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: that's just a quick example of a literary pig in hell. 285 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: I don't remember what the context was, but we've talked 286 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: about the Mala bronca before they were the I think 287 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 3: that name translates to evil claws. And this is the 288 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 3: circle of demons who are shown like surrounding a boiling 289 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: lake of pitch, and there are the I don't know, 290 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 3: like corrupt people and grafters or something that they keep 291 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 3: having to force back down under the pitch. Pretty pretty 292 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 3: nasty job. 293 00:16:51,480 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: They're demons with jobs, though they have a rope. All right, 294 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: enough of the like straight up demonic here, let's get 295 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: into some other examples. So I'd like to start in 296 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: Hindu traditions, since these traditions feature some of the most 297 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: divine and I think powerful invocations of poresine imagery. So 298 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 1: I turned once more to Nanditha Krishna's excellent book Sacred 299 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: Animals of India, in which the author chronicles a number 300 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: of different animals and talks about like their you know, 301 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: their their role in the natural world in India, conservation status, 302 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: and then also the different ways that they're infolked and 303 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: so the author here describes across the size and power 304 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: of wild bares creatures that are that are of course 305 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: closely tied to the earth. As I mentioned earlier, they 306 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: dig for roots in the soil and in doing so 307 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: they turn over the soil, perhaps as the author suggests, 308 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: informing humans about the value of tilled soil oh. 309 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 3: So they could be one of the sort of like 310 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 3: agricultural knowledge givers in a way. 311 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: Exactly at the same time, they're also like this natural 312 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: force that you know, might be beneficial but might also 313 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: be destructive. They can certainly hurt and kill humans, but 314 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: they can also be destructive to human agricultural pursuits because 315 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: they may raid crops, they may dig around in your gardens, 316 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: and so forth. So in essence, we have a fierce, wild, 317 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: but not universally hostile creature that is closely tied to 318 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: the earth. The bore both tills and fertilizes the soil, 319 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: and tradition holds that they're also tied to rain and 320 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: monsoon seasons as well, digging right before the beginning of 321 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: the monsoon. So one of the major uses of bor 322 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: iconography and Hindu traditions is the tenth incarnation of the 323 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: god Vishnu, and that is of Fadaha. And there are 324 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: different stories, of course concerning this incarnation, as you'll find 325 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: with just about any particular detail and the Hindu traditions, 326 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,959 Speaker 1: but one of the big tales does involve a demon 327 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: of sorts. Now more precisely, it involves an Osra. This 328 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: is the kind of power seeking demi god that is 329 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: often in conflict with the benevolent devas. So one of 330 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 1: these is one of these cases where the word demon 331 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: in English seems a precise enough descriptor, but with certain caveats, 332 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, like it's the system of supernatural beings can 333 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: be compared to that that you find in Christian mythology. 334 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: But there's still a lot of important differences, right. 335 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: We just recently talked about this in our series on 336 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 3: the so called demons of ancient Mesopotamia. To what extent 337 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 3: that term does sort of apply and in other ways doesn't. 338 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: In this case, we have a demon or by the 339 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: name of Hironyaksha that steals the earth itself, so rolls 340 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: up the earth like a mat we are told, and 341 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: then takes it into the ocean depth wo and yeah, 342 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: And so Vishnu is not crazy about this. So Vishnu 343 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: takes the form of a great boar, this is Vardaja, 344 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: and dives into the ocean to retrieve it, slaying here 345 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: in Yaksha. In the fierce battle that ensues. Then Vardaja 346 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: restores the earth, and while he's at it, teaches humans agriculture, 347 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: because again this is connection between bors and tilling of 348 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: the earth, fertilizing the soil. And I want to note 349 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: that while many illustrations and depictions of this battle show 350 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: Vardaja as a bore and here in Yaksha as a 351 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: human or a humanoid demon, there's at least one illustration 352 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: that depicts them both as human boar hybrids. I included 353 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: this one here for you, Joe. This is a seventeen 354 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: forty illustration by Indian painter Manaku of gular Oh. 355 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 3: I like this painting though, so they're they're shown in 356 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: conflict here. Do you know which of the two beings 357 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 3: in the painting is supposed to be the incarnation of Vishnu? 358 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 3: Is the one with the grayer skin or the green skin. 359 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: It would be the gray skin, I believe, because here 360 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: you see a regal, multi armed, noble looking poor sign 361 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: individual por sign being. And then on the other hand 362 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: you see this wild green monster that is also poor sign, 363 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: that also has the features of a bore. And I 364 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: love this imagery because you get in one image these 365 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: two drastically different ways of invoking the imagery of the boar, 366 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: the noble and the savage, the good and the evil, 367 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: and so forth. 368 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So the vicious demonic boar here is 369 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: mouth open, its jaws kind of like to compare it 370 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,439 Speaker 3: to the movie Razorback, it's just all mouth ah reaching 371 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: out with its arms to attack, whereas the Vishnu version 372 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 3: of the boar, yeah, it's standing with its chin up, 373 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: you know, raised in kind of lofty defiance. 374 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. 375 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 376 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: And you'll find other depictions of Varaha in which pretty 377 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: much looks like this with gray skin, the head of 378 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: a boar, multiple arms. But then you'll also find depictions 379 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: where he is just a great boar. H And I 380 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: included an image of some sculpture art that depicts this. 381 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: Now Naraka, the lord of the underworld Krishna rights is 382 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: also held to be the offspring of Vadaha and the 383 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: Earth via his spouse Budhevi, which I believe the sculpture 384 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: I included here, if you look at it, there is 385 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: a female figure on there, kind of like hanging from 386 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: one of his tusks. I believe that is Budhvi. 387 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: Whoa Oh okay, So I initially interpreted this humanoid figure 388 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: to be climbing the boar, as if to climb up 389 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 3: its side and ride it, you know, she's hanging from 390 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 3: its tusk. Wow. Yeah. 391 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: Krishna also points to a couple of other Hindu entities 392 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: that feature boar iconography. There's the goddess Vadahai, an aspect 393 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: of the Goddessa. The author also mentions that the boar 394 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: is also invoked in Jainism and in Buddhism, where the 395 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: goddess ma Rici or Marisi drives a chariot drawn by 396 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: seven boors. I believe this figure also factors into Hinduism 397 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: and has sometimes depicted as writing a single boar, though 398 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: not always. All right, let's let's turn to the world 399 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:25,719 Speaker 1: of monstrous boars, because one really important example in Greco 400 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: Roman traditions is, of course the Caledonian boar or the 401 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: Ittolian boar. This is a monstrous boar sent by the 402 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: goddess Artemis to punish the king of Kaleden for lack 403 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: of proper sacrifices. You didn't throw up the right sacrifices. 404 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: You ticked off a god. Now you have to deal 405 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: with a monster pig. It brings. Oh, it just destroys everything. 406 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: It destroys people, It destroys the town, it destroys the 407 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: land itself, and then you end up having to have 408 00:23:54,200 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: the heroes Meleager and Atalanta hunt it with their friends, 409 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: their allies, slay it, and then get into a big 410 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: fight with their allies over who gets what part of 411 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: the spoils from the monster pig, because we see this 412 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: time and time again, you'll have some sort of supernatural pig. 413 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: But then once you have killed that pig, its parts 414 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: are used. You know, it is it is, it is food, 415 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: it is you know, it's hide has value and so forth. 416 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, the drama is not done when the monster Boor 417 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 3: is slain. In fact, that factors into the next one 418 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: you're gonna mention. 419 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, the Arimanthean bore. This is another monster bore 420 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: of Greek myth. This is the one that ravaged Arcadia, 421 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: and it ends up being one of the twelve labors 422 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: of Hercules having to dispose of this monster bore. King 423 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: Eurystheus tells herk you can't slay it, You've got to 424 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: bring it back alive. And in most of these tellings 425 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: you have this wonderful scene where of course Hercules pulls 426 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: this off, brings back this ferocious bore alive, and just 427 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: the sight of Hercules carrying this thing is so terrifying 428 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: that the tyrant king jumps inside of a jar and hides. 429 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 3: So I thought this was interesting because of the way 430 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 3: the story ties into a weird art meme from the 431 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 3: ancient world that I've noticed. I'll get to that in 432 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: a second. But first of all, I was wondering if 433 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 3: there was any like really good ancient texts that describes 434 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 3: this hunt in detail. Maybe there is, but if so, 435 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: I couldn't. I couldn't find it. I didn't really come 436 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 3: across anything all that great. It's pretty sparse, you know. 437 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 3: It's just like, oh, and he hunted the boar down. 438 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 3: The best example I came across was from the text 439 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 3: of Pseudo Apollodorus the Library. This is the Phraser translation, 440 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 3: which says, well, first of all, there's a bunch of 441 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: drama with Hercules going out to hunt the boar, and 442 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: then get gets into a bunch of stuff with some 443 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: cinaurs and his companion gets killed. But then when Hercules, 444 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 3: it says quote, when Hercules had chased the boar with 445 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 3: shouts from a certain thicket, he drove the exhausted animal 446 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 3: into deep snow, trapped it, and brought it to myceny. 447 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 3: Now here's the funny art. Note. If you look up 448 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: ancient Greek pottery depicting this scene where Heracles in the 449 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 3: Greek returns with the boar, multiple pieces I found have 450 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 3: the same style of depicting the scene, so little things 451 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 3: about it are different. It's not like a tracing, you know. 452 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 3: You might have different characters on the sides of the scene, 453 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 3: or different sort of posture or ways of rendering the 454 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 3: Hercules's face and body, but the thing being shown is 455 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 3: the same in every case. So you will have down 456 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 3: below there's an opening of a large jar I guess 457 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 3: this is the type of Greek jar known as a pithos, 458 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 3: with the king hiding down in the jar, and you 459 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 3: can see like his head and hands popping up out 460 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 3: of it like oh. And then up above you will 461 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 3: have Hercules standing above the opening of the jar, holding 462 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 3: the boar up as if to dump it on top 463 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 3: of the king, or like to plug the king in 464 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 3: the jar with the boar as a cork. Uh. And 465 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 3: I've got at least four different m foy from ancient 466 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 3: Greece that depict the scene almost exactly like this Robi. 467 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 3: You can take a look and see what you notice 468 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 3: about all of these. The first one I've got in 469 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 3: the outline here is from the British Museum. It's a 470 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 3: it's a Greek amphora from the sixth century BCE, and 471 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 3: M four is also a type of jar that was 472 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 3: a smaller jar jar that would usually be used to 473 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,160 Speaker 3: store wine or perfume or oil or something like that. 474 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 3: So this in for a Hercules is wearing some kind 475 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 3: of armor, but also his thighs and butt cheeks are 476 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 3: showing a little bit, and he's. 477 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: He's remarkably clothed, though, I have to say yes for Heracles. 478 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: Yes, so Heracles. He's got the boar up on his shoulder, 479 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 3: and the king is down in the jar like, no, 480 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 3: don't dump the boar on me, and the boar is 481 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 3: just going straight down on top of him. It looks 482 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,239 Speaker 3: like he's gonna to plug him up in there. And 483 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 3: in most versions of this scene he's dropping the boar 484 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 3: head first on the king, but in one I found, 485 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 3: it's the last one I've got for you to look 486 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 3: at here, Rob in this case he's dropping the boar 487 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 3: taale first onto the king. So I don't know what 488 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 3: the difference is there. I am in no way. An 489 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 3: expert on ancient Greek art, I couldn't find anything that's 490 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 3: saying why this scene appears so often and looks so similar. 491 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 3: And I could be totally wrong about this, but I 492 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 3: wonder if this scene is popular to depict on Mpori 493 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 3: on jars because the king is hiding in a jar 494 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 3: in the scene. 495 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Heracles or Hercules, hero of the people 496 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: we discussed in the pad. I can't remember we're talking 497 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: about it this on a Core episode or a Weird 498 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: House Cinema episode. I think it was Weird House because 499 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about the Mario Bava Hercules in the Underworld film. 500 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: But Hercules stands up to power like this, but he 501 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: does not proclaim himself a king, so he's kind of 502 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: and he's kind of a workingman's hero in that regard. 503 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: I guess, you know. Yeah, take this job and shove it, 504 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: Take this pig and shove it, right, That is. 505 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: Exactly the vibe of these scenes here. Yeah, take this 506 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 3: pig and shove it. 507 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: I like how the fourth image that you shared Hercules 508 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: is the most naked here, varying levels of nudity for 509 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: Hercules in each of them, but then the second one 510 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: you shared, Hercules is making this wild Gargonian face that 511 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: is really great, almost as if he is saying, wa 512 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: was up? 513 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's tough as Yeah, any experts on ancient Greco 514 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: Roman art out there you want to fill us in 515 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 3: on why this scene appears so often and looks so similar? Yeah, right, 516 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 3: in contact that stuff to blow your mind dot com. 517 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: All right, let's see which what other monster pig should 518 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: I mention here? There's some that I couldn't find a 519 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: lot on. Like, for instance, there's one in Icelandic tradition. 520 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: It is called by God by God, it's a pig, 521 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: but like b E I G A D And this 522 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: apparently roughly translates to bringer of fear, which I like. 523 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: But then there's one from Irish legend that's really interesting. 524 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: This one is the bore of being Goldbain and in 525 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: this there's a whole story for this one. So this 526 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: is a monster that was once the mortal human son 527 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: of Angus, but upon his son's death in a quarrel, 528 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: the father you know, refused to accept this and refused 529 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: to accept the custom of death gold from his killer 530 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: to sort of settle the dispute. Instead, he raises his 531 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: son from the dead with dark magic into the form 532 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: of a great bore that Carol Rose says has neither 533 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: tail nor ears. I'm not sure what the significance of 534 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: that detail is, but if nothing else, it tends to 535 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: show you that this is an unnatural bore. It is 536 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: somehow not quite bore and certainly not man. Now. In 537 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: doing this and raising up his son like this, he's 538 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: also cursing his son's killer, Diarmid, and for telling that 539 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: the two of them, the reincarnated son here and his 540 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: killer Domed, are going to be the death of each other. 541 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: That he will live as long as this unnatural bore 542 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 1: that he's raised up, And indeed that's exactly how it 543 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: goes down. They fight, they gore and stab each other. 544 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: And I think we may have touched on this story 545 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 1: before in our episode about Finn McCool, because this is 546 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: where Finn McCool jumps in and tries to bring healing 547 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 1: waters to the dying warrior, and he tries three times, 548 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: but it slips through his fingers the first two times, 549 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: and by the third time the hero has already died. 550 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 3: All right. 551 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: This next one comes from Welsh traditions and I'm going 552 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: to butcher this. I know, my apologies, but it is 553 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: something like Holts do and it is. It is the 554 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,239 Speaker 1: bobtailed black soal. It is definitely in the category of 555 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: the boar that hunts. It was said to be active. 556 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: I've seen it. I believe Carol Rose discusses it as 557 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: being connected with Salin and then with the introduction of 558 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: Christianity war that of course that has warped more in 559 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,719 Speaker 1: the direction of Halloween, and then this creature becomes associated 560 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: with the devil. But in essence we're dealing with a 561 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: with just another boar who hunts that is monstrous and terrible, 562 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,479 Speaker 1: certainly kind of like an evil monster spirit. Again, I 563 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: think the name here is hawk de Geta or something 564 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: to that effect. Again, I'm not not really good with 565 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: the Welsh tongue here. 566 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce it. Hats off 567 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 3: to you, Rob, But I was looking at the entry 568 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 3: on this one in the Oxford Dictionary of Celticthology, and 569 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 3: it says that this is the spectral pig later often 570 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 3: associated with the devil in Christianity. But the idea is 571 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: that it's a spectral pig that would rise up out 572 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: of the embers of a dying bonfire on the night 573 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 3: of this this like sort of autumn festival night, and 574 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 3: it would rise up out of the embers of the 575 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 3: dying bonfire and it would catch the last person, I 576 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 3: guess to the last person in some case to like 577 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 3: leave the festivities or to arrive. 578 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: Oh fascinating. Well, let's see we have some other ones here. 579 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: There's a comapua. This is a Hawaiian primordial monster boar 580 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: from Hawaiian mythology the pig child who raised up the 581 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: ocean mud with his snout to form the islands and 582 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: some tellings. So again another primordial vision of the boar. 583 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: And I like the resonance is there with the Hindu 584 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 3: idea of the incarnation of Vishnu that like has to 585 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 3: swim down into the ocean to retrieve the matt of 586 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 3: the earth and bring it back in this case raising 587 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: up the ocean mud from beneath. 588 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Like is there an actual connection there, a 589 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: reverberation of belief or is it just come from familiarity 590 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: with the animal, you know? And these these sort of 591 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: metaphors and ideas emerging from human observation of these animals 592 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: that they live in close contact. 593 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 3: With Yeah, to be clear, I was not suggesting a 594 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 3: causal connection. No, no, no, no, those two myths. 595 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but if there if there isn't a causal connection, 596 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: it's it's clearly like observing the animal, and you know 597 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: the ideas that emerge when we see the animal and 598 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: it's on its natural turf. Let's see. Oh, Celtic legends 599 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: tell of a monstrous family of bores, like you could 600 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: probably call these ogre bores. I think that fought King 601 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: Arthur and his knights. May come back to some of this, 602 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: but the tellings have a lot of gorings, like just 603 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: just a whole series of gorings. They're chasing these bores 604 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: around on killing off certain boars. Uh. Yeah, we'll come 605 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: back to these, because there are a few like examples 606 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: of the King of Boars. 607 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 3: Did your source say which of King Arthur's knights got 608 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 3: got gord? Because I was just thinking because it's funny. 609 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 3: I know one of the knights in Arthurian legend is 610 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 3: sir Bars, and it would be somewhat hilarious if Sir 611 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 3: Bors got gored by a boar. 612 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: I do I don't know. I don't know if any 613 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,680 Speaker 1: like name Knights were God, but it's it's possible. Like 614 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: some of the particular ones I'm scanning down, I do 615 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: have notes on this. Let's say twitrich Tritch. This is 616 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: a This is one of the wicked Kings who was 617 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: transformed into a monstrous boar. So, uh, this is one 618 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: of the ones that they did battle with. Uh. And 619 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: then there Yeah, there are various other ones that have 620 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: names and factor into this whole like series of battles 621 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: between humans and boars. Oh, now here's another one that 622 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: Carol ro shares that that is really interesting and has 623 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: a very cool story to it. And this is concerning 624 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: a particular monster pick by the name of Totoima or 625 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: I've seen it also spelled dodo Ema. It's a monster 626 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: pig of the Oro Kaiva people of Papua New Guinea. 627 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 1: So essentially, this monster pig is a father of mortal 628 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 1: humans who hunts them from their birth and devours them 629 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: if he finds them. So the basic story concerning this 630 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: monster pig is that I guess at night it takes 631 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,919 Speaker 1: the form of the monster pig, but during the day 632 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: it takes the form or can take the form of 633 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: a mortal man. And in this form, toto Ema couples 634 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: with human women, producing human offspring, which then at night, 635 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,880 Speaker 1: in the form of the beast, he seeks out and 636 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: he consumes if he finds them. 637 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 3: Wow. 638 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: But then one woman ends up birthing twins, and of 639 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: course he does what he always does in bore form. 640 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: He chases after them to consume them. But when them 641 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: he's only able to consume the boy twin and the 642 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: female escapes. Well, the twins mother, she's not gonna take this, 643 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: she stands up to it. So she goes to a 644 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: shaman and the shaman casts a spell that causes the 645 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,320 Speaker 1: boy to grow rapidly into adulthood inside of Totoima's stomach 646 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: and then bursting out of him, killing the monster pig 647 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: in the process. And then the shaman marries the daughter. 648 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: The people feast on the body of Totoima, and in 649 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,279 Speaker 1: doing so they consume his power, his supernatural power. They 650 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: absorb it, and then this story is echoed in all 651 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: of the boar feasts to follow in this culture. 652 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 3: Oh. Interesting, So the boy explodes out of the belly 653 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 3: of the boar by growing rapidly, But does that mean 654 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 3: the boy survives? 655 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess he either I'm not sure of the 656 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,800 Speaker 1: details of the spell. Maybe he reforms and then grows, 657 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 1: or maybe the monster consumed him whole, as we see, 658 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: of course, in a lot of stories of monsters consuming people. 659 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: They are swallowed whole, and then there's this chance for 660 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 1: them to escape somehow, you know, clearly a popular idea, 661 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: even in modern fiction and science fiction. 662 00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess I'm more familiar with stories along these 663 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 3: lines where like, oh, you know, the little red Riding Hood, 664 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 3: the hunter comes along and cuts open the wolf's stomach 665 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 3: and everybody and everybody gets out. But I love this 666 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 3: version with the magic spell that causes the yeah, the 667 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 3: eating child to grow and explode from the inside, and. 668 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: Then they eat the monster. Again. We see allusion to 669 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: this in the Greek traditions as well. I'm not saying 670 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,359 Speaker 1: every monster boar ends up being consumed, but it does 671 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: seem to be kind of a frequent idea, like it 672 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 1: is a rare kind of this rare case where the 673 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: monster is both ferocious and also on the menu for 674 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: human beings. 675 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I guess that's interesting. Where you know that 676 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 3: the pig occupies this middle space between somewhere between just 677 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 3: herbivorous prey animal and carnivore, which is, you know, carnivore 678 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 3: is not usually thought of as great eating. Uh, not 679 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 3: to say people wouldn't eat a you know, eat a 680 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,840 Speaker 3: wolf or whatever, but yeah, exactly, but that, like the 681 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 3: pig is sort of it's in both camps. 682 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, two more, just real quick ones here. Speaking 683 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: of pigs that are eaten there, there is also the 684 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: eternally regenerating roasting pig of Valhallah. This is SATs from 685 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: there or so Soakram there, whose name just means blackened. 686 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 3: I believe. 687 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: I think we've touched on him before, but that's his 688 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 1: entire role. I don't think he has much of a backstory. 689 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: He's just a never ending feast pig that regenerates. 690 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 3: So this is not so much pig as pig, but 691 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 3: divine pig as pork. 692 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 1: Right yeah, yeah. And then there is at least one 693 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: supernatural pig or boar worth talking about here from Chinese traditions, 694 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: and that is pingfing or bingfing. This is a black 695 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: boar with either I think some tellings the head of 696 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,360 Speaker 1: a human, but most of the sellings that I was 697 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,520 Speaker 1: reading about it's a boar head at either end. So 698 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: kind of like the what the push me, pull me 699 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: from Doctor Dolittle, Doctor Dolittle, Of course, yes, there's like 700 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: a creature like this to push me, pull me in 701 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: that where it has a head on either side. It's 702 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: the This is the push me pull me of bores 703 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: and Chinese mythology. Wow, this is the variation that appears 704 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 1: in the classic texts of the Shanghaijing, the classic of 705 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 1: mountains and seas that we've touched on the show before, 706 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: and as with other two headed creatures, said to be 707 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: quite obstinate, according to Richard Strasburg in the book A 708 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 1: Chinese Bestiary. So, I guess in this, you know, it's 709 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: like you have a two headed animal. Which one's in charge, 710 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: which one's the boss? Well, they're both the boss. You 711 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: have to talk to both ends of the. 712 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,479 Speaker 3: Pig, especially stubborn. Yeah. Stubbornness comes from the head. 713 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. So again, this is just a brief overview of 714 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: some of the varieties and and some of like the 715 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: basic tropes you seem to encounter with mythic pigs, mythic bores, 716 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: and so forth. I'm sure there are some other interesting 717 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: ones that I didn't run across enough details regarding so 718 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 1: if you have a favorite, write in share them. We 719 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: would love to hear about your hell pig. 720 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 3: All right, Well, it looks like we're out of time 721 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 3: for today, but we are not done with the topic 722 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 3: of monster pigs. So if you can't get enough you 723 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 3: want to learn about more monster pigs, and in fact, 724 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 3: monster pigs not only in myth and legend, but in reality, 725 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 3: come back and join us on Tuesday. All right. 726 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: Just a reminder to everyone out there that Stuff to 727 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast 728 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, episodes that are 729 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: more likely to be monstrous and horror themed during the 730 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: month of October, and then we do a short form 731 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,720 Speaker 1: episode on Wednesdays, and then on Fridays we set aside 732 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: most serious concerns to just talk about a weird film 733 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 1: on Weird House Cinema. Oh and just a reminder if 734 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 1: you're on Instagram out there, you can follow us at 735 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: STBYM podcast. And if you would like to get a 736 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind Halloween shirt sticker or what 737 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: have you, check out our teap public store that should 738 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: be linked on the Instagram that should also be linked 739 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: on our page at stuff to Blow Yourmind dot com. 740 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,360 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 741 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,279 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 742 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 743 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 744 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 745 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 746 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 747 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,320 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 748 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.