WEBVTT - Home Appliance Homicide (S1 Ep 8 "Guilty") 0:00:01.920 --> 0:00:06.320 Hi, welcome to Desperately Devoted, the Ultimate Desperate Housewives rewatch, 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.360 hosted by me, Terry Hatcher, my on screen daughter Andrea Bowen, 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:12.720 and my real life daughter Emerson Tanna. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:16.200 Well, Hi, welcome back here. 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.759 We are discussing episode eight, Guilty, and I just have 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.319 to say Fred Gerber directed the shit out of this 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:25.639 episode well. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:26.720 And maybe no surprise then. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.319 According to Wikipedia, this was our highest rated episode of 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:31.520 this season thus far. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:34.920 It was my highest rated episode in my heart thus far. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.400 Well, I wonder if that's because of the insanely well edited, 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.879 exciting end of the episode, which was where we were 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:48.400 cutting back and forth between Missus Hooper being killed with 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.320 the blender that she stole from Mary Alice by Paul 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.480 and Mike and Susan having sex for the first time. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.080 I mean, that was hot, hot, hot, But I don't know. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.840 There were a lot of big things that happened in 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.120 this episode, and there were big themes like shame and 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.920 guilt and religion, and I feel like the question of 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.880 you know, does being happy make you selfish? Also, I 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.160 think people are looking at like your gut instinct, does 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:19.960 it lead you wrong or right? 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.360 So what stood out to you guys, where should we start? 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.160 I love just to dive right in. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.440 I also love the general theme of this episode. We 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:34.520 have so many characters turning to religion specifically in this episode, 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.160 and I was thinking about that a lot, and I 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.760 was wondering, like, I think it's human nature to sort 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.240 of crave a blueprint in life, you know, we want 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.319 to be guided, We want someone to answer these big questions, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:52.680 like Gabrielle turning to Father Crowley kind of trying to 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.000 decipher what is right and wrong. And Susan and Mike 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.640 in this episode with trust issues coming up, you know, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:01.320 with su and kind of snooping a little bit in 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.400 Mike's house and kind of what does it? Someone tell 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.200 me how and when I can really start to trust someone. 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:12.760 Also have Bri and Rex really grappling with Andrew's lack 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.920 of guilt over the car crash and the fact that 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.640 he's put Wanita into a coma and kind of saying like, 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.239 how have we raised a right sun or how have 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:24.519 we raised our son? Have we done something wrong? I 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:29.080 also love that the opening, the very opening. Mary Alice 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.600 says in the beginning of this episode, there is a 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.360 widely read book that tells us everyone is a sinner, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:39.240 and we see that Bible that Brie has. And I 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:42.200 don't think, you know, this show being an American TV 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:47.200 show airing in America, I do not think that it 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:51.240 is a coincidence that the highest rated episode started with 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:56.120 a Bible and ended with sex and murder. That really 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:02.040 feels like it pretty perfectly encapsulates our country, for better 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:02.640 or for worse. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:04.880 I don't know what else is there to cover. Those 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:05.440 are the things. 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.000 Yeah, I love that opening scene, and I. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:10.200 Also loved Okay. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:14.240 So it opens with the the Brie and Rex and 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.640 the family discussing what are we going to do about 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.440 the fact that Andrew, uh, you know, we hit and 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.840 possibly killed this woman. And they're all sort of hemming 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:26.200 and hanging about whose fault it is and who has 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:31.160 the better idea, and finally Brie just comes up and 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.400 she's the one with the solution. She's We're going to 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.160 get rid of the car. This is how we're going 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.560 to do it. Bum bum bum bump bum. And it 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:43.880 actually reminded me Reese Witherspoon. I saw her like doing 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.960 a lecture at sort of a women's event, and she 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:51.480 was talking about how sometimes in movies the dialogue for 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.200 women is so silly, Like they'll be a scenario where 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.760 something goes wrong and the woman's dialogue will be like 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:01.680 what should we do? What do you think we should do? 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:06.000 Like the woman never has the solution. And Reese Witherspoon's 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.280 at this event and she says to the audience, like, 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.400 when have you ever seen a woman in an actual 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.880 drama not be the person who knows what to do? 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:16.960 Like the women are always. 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:19.240 The people that stand up and like have a plan 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.000 and get it done and never stop and go go, 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.920 go go. I mean I feel like that in my life, 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.359 Like I'm I'm never looking to anyone to help me 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:33.159 solve the problem, maybe to my own detriment, But that 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.760 kind of cracked me up that that Bree was the 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:37.680 one that was like, of course, you know it's going 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:40.200 to be the woman that's going to solve this, Smara. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.200 Of course, the solution will be to drive the car 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:46.280 to a shady neighborhood and leave the keys in it. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:52.799 Turning our back to the morally reprehensible implications if someone 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.359 steals this car and then ends up getting framed for 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:01.120 murder potential when Needa dies in her coma, Yeah, I think, 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.440 of course Brie is the one who had the plan. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.159 And I think it's interesting, Mom that you say that 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:08.880 you always have a plan and that you never ask 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.960 for help, because I think that is another big theme 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.320 in this episode a lot of different characters. I'm specifically 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:22.160 thinking about Lynette as her add medication addiction that she 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.159 really spirals out of her control, her kind of inability, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:30.680 and then ultimate breakdown fueled by her vision of Mary 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.120 Mary Alice in such a kind of haunting and beautiful 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.320 and incredibly poetic way, Mary Alice coming to her in 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:41.000 this vision and handing her the gun that she used 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.640 in the pilot episode through the windows, this kind of 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.200 last I guess to stick with our religion metaphor hail 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:52.680 Mary for what to do to get out of this 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:54.880 spiral that Lynette can't imagine how to get out of. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.000 And ultimately, of course it is when she realizes that 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.680 she has to be honest with her friends and ask 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:00.000 for her. 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:04.120 We just have to linger on this scene because you know, 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.120 as as we like to point out, this was two 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.719 thousand and four Network television. What a brave and bold 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:18.960 scene to show Lynette completely full crash out mode standing 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:23.480 in the kitchen. She's sleep dep you know, completely sleep deprived. 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.440 She's now maybe she's taken something. She went to the 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:32.039 acupuncturist who gave her these you know, holistic, mushroomy things. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.000 She's taken that, which is aiding in this hallucination state 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.599 that she's in. But she is completely at her wits end, 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:45.200 totally falling apart. And it's overlaid with that amazing music, 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.920 which I know was just like cinematic brilliance to. 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:50.960 Have Len Groovy, so ivon Ellen. 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.920 Groovy playing over that. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:58.440 Right, The dichotomy of those two things just making this 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.000 this moment of TV feel like a pause worthy moment. 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:06.240 I just I just really I think it's the it's 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.680 maybe my favorite episode of the season. 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:10.480 So far, that makes sense. 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.680 I mean, that was just a brilliant scene, and I 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:17.200 loved that Felicity did this little, tiny moment. I'm sure 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.280 she did it on purpose, because that's the kind of 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.440 actor she is. But she was when she was sitting 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:27.040 at the table initially before she went into what gets 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.880 revealed as a dream, she kind of did this thing 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:31.720 of like where she puts her head down. So I 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:33.760 think if you went back and you watched it again, 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.760 you would see like, oh, she's asleep, you know. But 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:40.920 I think when you watch it for the first time, 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.640 you're a little confused, like is this really happening? Did 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.000 she really throw the peanut butter through the through the 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.480 window and break it like it's It was edited so well. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:56.280 This episode was so strongly about guilt and shame that 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.120 I asked chat GPT what the difference between guilt and 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:02.840 shame was, Do you guys want to hear what? 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:03.160 Oh? 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:04.440 Yes, GPT told me. 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.560 I will just coveat this though with chat GPT is 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.280 programmed to give you an answer no matter what you 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.320 ask it, so sometimes if you ask chat GPT something, 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.200 it will give you an incorrect answer, as opposed to 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.000 saying I don't know. I'm not saying that this isn't 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.400 the case of guilt or shame, but I was just 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:22.920 talking about this the other day with a friend and 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.520 I was like, I have to remember that I shouldn't 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.640 always be turning to chat GPT for answers about complex 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.360 questions because sometimes it just makes shit up. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.319 Wow, I'm not sure this is one of those times, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.040 but you be judge for yourself. Okay, So what it 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.959 said was it said that guilt was focused on behavior, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:45.560 like I did something bad, I lied, and I regret it, 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:51.040 And guilt tends to motivate a person to have reparations, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:57.080 like an apology or making amends. But shame is I 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.400 am bad, and it focuses on self, like I lied 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.960 and I'm a terrible person. And I just thought that 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:11.440 was fascinating. The difference between owning like this deep seated 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:16.240 I'm a terrible person as opposed to I did something bad, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:19.760 I should fix it. And do you know, I think 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:21.560 of myself as somebody who. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:24.800 I try not to. 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:29.920 Let guilt drive my life because I do feel in general, 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.959 like guilt is a waste of time, you know, like 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:39.880 like it's almost you know, you're just ruminating on something, 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.640 but you're and you're punishing yourself, but you're not really 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.480 fixing anything. You're not really solving anything. It just and 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:48.440 so it feels like a waste of time. But I 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.960 like I was the biggest example I had recently, Like 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.120 in the last three years, I did take care over 0:09:55.240 --> 0:10:00.600 the care of my parents, and initially I was just 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.800 giving them one hundred and fifty percent time everything they 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:09.400 needed all the time because I felt guilty I felt 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.720 guilty not doing it. I felt guilty saying no. I 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.760 felt like everything was sort of like this could be 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:20.679 their last Thanksgiving, this could be the last birthday, this 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:22.960 could be the last day they were alive, like, and 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.520 up against that pressure, I just felt like I could 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:29.960 never say no because I thought I would feel guilty, 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:35.200 And ultimately I realized that that was totally not sustainable 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:39.720 and that I had to come around to giving myself 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.360 some grace of that was silly for me to feel guilty, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.360 because what I should be feeling is the flip side 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.920 of the positive of like, look at what I am 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.240 able to do for these two people, look at how 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.560 I am able to help. And it's interesting that we 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.720 do kind of get caught up in our shortcomings, which 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.240 I think happens to Len, which I think is what 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.440 leads her down the road of addiction in the first place, 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.280 is that she's not looking at what she has done, 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.120 which is I've given up my job. I'm taking care 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:12.120 of these four kids and the best way I can. 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.560 You know, She's instead going like, I'm not having the 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.719 perfect dinner, I'm not having the perfect behaved kids. I'm 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:24.199 not and so that leads her to her addiction problem. 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:26.840 Yeah, and I think it serves in this in this 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.800 episode two as a driver for what it can be 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.400 when you do acknowledge it or when you just hit 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.120 the point where you can no longer hide it. And 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.920 that leads us to this the scene in the park 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.160 with Susan and Brie where Lynnette says, like, why don't 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:44.720 we tell each other these things? 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.000 You know, which is such a. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:52.000 Moving moment for those friendships, but also just as something 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.199 in my life going into you know, motherhood or any 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.600 sort of struggle that we have in life. It's like, gosh, 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.360 when you tap into your community and you. 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:02.439 And someone says, oh, I've been there. 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:04.680 Oh what it can make you feel. 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:10.000 The relief that you're you're not carrying this shame around 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:16.000 alone is so is so powerful And how it's interesting 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.640 to hear you talk about that Initially a part of 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.400 your taking on this chapter of your life of taking 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.800 care of your parents was maybe driven by guilt, so 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.240 it served as sort of an action item for you 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.720 in a way I feel like, and then it evolved 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.720 into much more. But the idea that shame, I think 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.800 shame is a stealer of action, right, like shame makes 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:45.000 you just stop in a really serious. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.319 And certain kind of way and isolate and isolate, and 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.920 then you're just stuck in that place, which is you know, 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.080 for our listeners, like I mean, if you look at 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.160 my Instagram and you look at me just as a 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.480 normal person, I'm always saying out, get out of your house, 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:06.520 get out into nature, talk to strangers, go be social, 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:11.160 because all of us do feel shame to one level 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.880 or another for something in our lives, and that shame 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:21.720 can really keep you closed off, and the lifting of 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.680 that is getting out connecting with other people because you 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:25.560 are not alone. 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:28.360 Well, I was going to say, I think guilt, like regret, 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:33.000 can be like you are saying, Andrea, an action item 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.440 to do something different. I think guilt that we sit 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.280 in turns into shame, which I agree becomes depressive and 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:46.280 actually inhibits action and can become really dangerous because you 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.480 start to identify with that complex. I think about something 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:54.320 that my therapist has said in relation to depression. She said, 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.120 you know what, actually it's okay to feel depressed, like 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.920 when you physically think about what it means to be depressed. Okay, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.400 you were in a setback state where you were slightly 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.520 removed from your life, and that can actually really have 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.280 its advantages. You can see things more clearly, you can 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:12.560 come up with a plan for how you want to 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.480 move into the future. The place where being depressed becomes 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:22.160 dangerous is when you start to identify with depression as 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.560 part of your pathology, and then that becomes a complex 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.480 that actually prevents you from taking a new action course 0:14:30.520 --> 0:14:34.480 and moving back out proactively into your life and into 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.000 the world. And so I think it is amazing and 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.600 it's such a relief to see Lynette have this scene 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:47.200 with Susan and Brie where you feel the tension of 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.480 this secret that she's been keeping and this fact that 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.840 she's been struggling dissipate in the ability to just put 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.280 it into words and share it with other people. And 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:01.280 I think we can never underestimate the relief you feel 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.600 when you share a burden. And I really like encourage 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.760 all of us to share those things that we might 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.880 feel guilty about before they fester and turn into shame. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.040 Yeah. Well, something that I don't think is depressing is 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.360 Susan and Julie and Mike in this episode. 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:22.680 There's so much fun counterbalancing the more serious themes in 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:24.240 this episode. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.400 I think one of my favorite lines I've ever heard, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.120 and I just I'm just going to keep saying it. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:34.360 Andrew Bowen brilliant child actors like that. I'm just gonna 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:38.000 say it. One of my favorite scenes is so so Sue. 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.240 Susan is packing for this overnight We're going to have 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.960 sex for the first time trip with Mike, and Julie 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:51.520 is in the bedroom with her, and Julie says, I 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.320 want you to go on you know she wants her 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.200 to go on this date because she says, no man 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.600 has seen you naked in years, and you have to 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.440 get out of the house. And she says, because one 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.480 day I'm going to have a husband of my own 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.000 and I don't want you living with me. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.760 I have to say I was going to say. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.240 The other line from this same scene that I loved 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.280 so much is when Julie says, no man has seen 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:17.080 you naked in yours except your doctor, and then Susan goes, yeah, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.400 and he retired. 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.680 And I have another favorite line from this scene, which 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.400 justs me so excited that we all loved this scene 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.360 so much, but which is when Susan mentions that she 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.200 just doesn't know enough about Mike and that he could 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.840 be a hit man for the mob, and Julie responds 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:35.960 with if you really think that, why are you going 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:36.880 on a trip with him? 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:39.440 And I was a good point, Julie. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.680 Good point is sex in a very long time, so 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.040 you know all the reason next well, hit man sex, 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:47.400 you know. 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:53.160 I do think the investigating of what are Mike's motives 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.400 we do see Susan snoop around a lot more and 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.960 get into some amazing Susan esque physical comedy, such as 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:04.199 finding the money and hiding it from the repairman in 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.120 the sink and then falling through the floor of Mike's 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.000 unrepaired bathroom, which is just brilliant. I was laughing out 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.800 loud with your little legs kicking through. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.280 The flooring, dangling between the levels. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.320 But it did bring up for me a kind of 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:24.959 larger question around trust and what does it mean to 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:26.960 trust the people that you're dating. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.399 I think sometimes I fall on the side of I 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:31.159 don't know that. 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:35.119 I think the assumption needs to be that couples always 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.040 need to tell each other everything. 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:39.399 I think. 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.040 Absolute honesty is not always like not I don't equate 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:49.199 that necessarily with having deep and meaningful trust. And I 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.720 think it's interesting how this comes back when Mike eventually 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.480 does show up on Susan's doorstep and says, you know, 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.520 ask me anything that you want and I'll tell you 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.800 whatever it is that you want to know. And Susan says, well, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.879 that's my answer, And of course then that leads to 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.639 their beautiful climactic scene of finally sleeping together, which we 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:13.359 can get to. But I'm curious what you think about 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.760 this in terms of our relationship. Do you feel like 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.879 couple should tell each other everything? Where do you feel 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:19.879 like that line is? 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:30.000 Yeah, I think. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.480 We all have a strong right to a personal inner 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:38.320 life that is private. I think that it's only become 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:43.840 more of a debate in relationships because of technology, right, 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.200 like having access to each other's phones, or having access 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.679 to each other's social media, or even just location sharing. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.680 You know, where is the line with. 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:57.800 What access we allow others to have? And I, personally 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.199 I would agree Emerson, I kind of fall more or 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:06.080 towards the side of total honesty and access isn't necessarily. 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:07.080 The healthiest option. 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:09.119 I think we, like I said, I think we deserve 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.600 personal inner lives. But I also think if you have 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:17.679 an instinct in a relationship. I'm speaking romantic relationships, but 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.439 I guess in other ones as well. If you have 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.800 an instinct that you're wanting to read someone's texts or 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.439 you're wanting to snoop through their house, like, pay attention 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.399 to that instinct more than doing the thing itself. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.320 The instinct might be onto something. 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:33.480 I feel like. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.080 I always say that, like I am so and I 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.399 have never in a relationship and I never would ask 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.119 or ask to go through someone's phone or tolerate anyone 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.600 asking to go through my phone, because I have said 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.800 to my friends who have had this in that relationship 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:50.679 where they've been like, oh, I just went through his phone. 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:52.879 I've gone to me. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.320 I think the minute you're going through someone's phone, the 0:19:55.359 --> 0:20:00.399 relationship's dead. The trust is gone, and what set you 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.320 on the path to arrive at that place. It requires 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.960 more investigation, I think than whatever may or may not 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.280 be on someone's life. 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.120 I was going to say a little bit different was that, 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:12.760 Like I do think it's it's it's an interesting that 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.520 you'll hear about, like as people begin to get into relationships, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.760 and which is what Susan Mike are doing, Like as 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:25.560 they're dating. I think you have to hold two things 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:29.200 at once. You have to hold that you are present 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.560 and you are moving forward, and you are being vulnerable 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:37.159 and you are trusting that the scenario is going to 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.199 unfold in a good way. But you have to also 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:47.919 know that you are strong enough to withstand other information 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.959 when it's revealed and do something about it. So not 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.520 project the negative, not be afraid of the negative, Like 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:03.320 be positive, be optimistic, but know that that can come 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.920 from a sort of resonating strength that is within you. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.240 And I think holding both of those things at once 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:17.639 gives you the best opportunity to find and curate a 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.040 positive relationship. You know, I think Susan, if I'm looking 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.760 at Susan, I don't know that she is so strong. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.720 I think that she, you know, is quite braill and 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.679 fragile and probably leans on Julie too much. And you know, 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.639 I feel like one more relationship goes wrong and she's 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.920 going to end up, you know, like falling to pieces 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.760 and and that's not a good place to begin a 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:47.520 relationship from. If I were Susan's therapist, That's what I 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:47.960 would say. 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:50.960 And speaking of like we're again, we're kind of talking 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:55.280 about therapy and religions as places to turn to for 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:58.120 when we were having these big questions. So I think 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.119 we have to talk about another. He asked the moment 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:05.520 in this episode, which is when Gabrielle and Father Crowley 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:08.919 are in the hospital room and she says, what I 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:11.840 want is to be happy, and he says, that's the 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:13.600 answer of a selfish child. 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.600 And I imagine we all kind of gasped at that. 0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:17.920 Yeah, I did, I did. 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:20.359 I mean I had two moments I gasped that with 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.159 Gabby in this episode. One was her saying we're not 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.080 negotiating my uterus to Carlos, who. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:27.800 Has starting timely. 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.200 Oh my god, so timely, which is crazy that twenty 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:35.040 years later, this twenty one years later, this is arguably 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:41.119 more timely than ever. But jumping to the father Crowley conversation, 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.800 I really was taken aback by this as well, because 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:51.080 I felt vehemently in my body. I was like, I disagree, 0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:54.800 I disagree with this. I do not think that being 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.920